>jump on it >it moves a bit, but clearly won't let

>Timing out before figuring it out
I can imagine kids doing that, but that's pathetic as an adult.

>>389677892
>>keep jumping and ignoring what I'm seeing

Because if you timed it well you could bounce it enough with only jumps.

>>389678161
ahaha
https://youtu.be/2Rs35yd2Jg4?t=1h39m00s

I tried spin dashing and noticed it moved, then I kept pushing down

I just timed my jumps. I assumed the triangles were decorative since they fit in with the rest of the zone.

>>389677892

It's one of those things that sounds dumb in hind sight but this shit was out of left field. As a kid I thought the game was fucking with me and just locked me up in a room for the hell of it.

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>>389677892
>Guaranteed momentum lectures cylinder: the Movie
literally retarded.

>>389677892

If you time your jumps it goes higher every time, implying that this is the correct way to do it, and there's a path above it just out of reach that is easier to get to than the lower path.

The up and down arrows are never used for anything like this anywhere else in the game.

Nothing about the barrel is excusable.

>>389678739
>playing with a female streamer now
>Is anoying
I guess im never watching vineshit ever again

This is as far as I got in sonic 3 as a kid. Never figured it out. Not good game design in any way, forever ruined my opinion on Sonic

>>389680184
actually, it takes 3 jumps before the barrel moves from its initial vertical movement and even then it goes lower. From then it begins to rise higher.
There's actually no path above the barrel. The only way to go further in the stage is to go below the barrel.
The up and down arrows can be used on all barrels, but if you wanna argue that there's no mandatory things that use the up and down buttons, you should check out the Tails fight in Marble Garden and the pulleys in Mushroom Hill.

>>389677892
It's an elevator you retard, it goes up and down. What else would you press?

>>389678739
Vinny is so bad but thats why its good.

>>389678161
>>389681174
do you guys understand sarcasm?

>Another damage control thread to make dean's cuphead video look less retarded
2 threads and counting

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>>389681364
>i was only pretending to be retarded!

>>389681454
learn to have some fucking reading comprehension, dumbass. OP makes it very clear that he's parodying the people who complain about the barrel

>>389680748

Me too, actually. Thought my game was broken. Turned out it was just a broken game.

>>389678739
It honestly responds to jumping too much. It's not that figuring out up and down works is difficult, it's that jumping feels like it might work way more than it should so some people get stuck in a loop of second guessing whether they're just not doing it right or what.

We're not doing this again Dean. Stop repeating yourself and let it go that maybe you're not as smart as you want to believe if you had trouble beating an obstacle in a game with 5 buttons where 3 are immediately proven to not work.

>>389681830
No it doesn't. Jumping takes just as long to actually affect the barrel's movement as pushing up and down. In fact, it actually takes longer since up and down gets straight to the point while jumping has you wait for Sonic to come back down to the ground.
The barrel does not react any faster or any better to jumping.
Not to even mention that after a bit of jumping, the barrel automatically snaps back to it's original position, so it should become clear that jumping isn't doing much.
You guys just say this kind of fucking nonsense because you can't accept that there's literally nothing wrong with the barrel

>Spend half a minute jumping on it.
"yeah okay this is taking too long there must be some other way"

>>389681830

It feels that way because jumping can work and the similar barrels you go through earlier are solved by jumping. It's legit bad game design

>>389680570
imakuni has been a vinesauce streamer for a long time
also she's the only one that pretty much has an interest in sonic and vinny doesn't, so she actually got him to play it.
i don't watch imakuni, but don't go spewing shit about a one off thing

>>389682228
No, YOU solved them by jumping. They could also be solved by pushing up and down. This is like rolling into a wall instead of spindashing. YOU'RE the one who did it, the game didn't say "hey roll into this". YOU ARE THE ONE THAT DECIDED TO JUMP. The game had no bearing on your childish mindset

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>>389682438

>barrel gives false feedback
>previous barrels are solved by the thing giving false feedback
>actual solution is a mechanic never used up til that point and never used again

Sounds a textbook case of bad game design

>>389682228
No, the previous barrels are not solved by jumping because there are multiple paths accessible by using said barrel, which is not a "solvable" puzzle and entirely different to the situation later where you have to push the barrel downwards specifically to proceed. Please give it up because you're only going to make yourself look even worse.

>>389682438
Literally 20 different people are telling you it's bad design. It's bad design you apologist. Even the creators admitted it. Fuck off.

>>389682850
why don't you fuck off? Are you guys seriously so shitty at games that you can't adapt to a new concept or gameplay mechanic without being told exactly how to do it?

>>389682850
>"20" people
You really think you're fooling anyone?

>>389682784
>roll into a wall
>the wall breaks
>keep doing it and get past all types of paths
>reach one where I don't ave enough room to roll
>have to spindash even though up until then I could get away with never using it and even after I never have to use it
fucking bad game design

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>>389681174
The elevator button. Unless Sonic can control the elevator with his mind, since the d-pad controls sonic.

>HURRR THERE'S ONLY X NUMBER OF BUTTONS

That's autistic as fuck bro. People don't interact with games by thinking about pushing buttons, they think about the actions they're doing. Since the barrel responds to jumping, and jumping is a WAY more common solution to obstacles than pressing down, it's perfectly understandable that people got stuck.

Face it, the barrel was bad design.

>>389682951
There's only a significant visual payoff if you press the two buttons alternating a significant amount. Meanwhile, jumping makes the barrel shift instantaneously, and bouncing on it gives you enough of an increase in height to get to a seperate platform. The fact of the matter is that the barrel having multiple different mechanics makes it difficult to figure out what you're meant to be doing, especially when its an ultimately completely unused mechanic aside from a stage IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME.

>>389683195
>have 3 buttons
>1 is clearly not working
>only have 2 left
>not experimenting with them
you're fault

>>389682438
The problem is this. Many of them respond to the weight of Sonic and do bounce around up and down at a more extreme verticality with more force you put down on it. Not only that there is zero reason to stop everything you are doing and adhere to the barrel and press up and down in those previous sequences. It is one thing in Marble Zone since that is more platforming orientated with waiting on the blocks crossing, but pressing up and down isn't as orientated towards platforming unlike fully controlling your character. There is no other instance beforehand in Sonic 3 up to that point or previous Sonic games which required you to interact with an object you had to press up and down. Everything else before hand was solved with Sonic's move set. Controlling the barrel has very little to do with Sonic's move set outside of the ability to jump off of it.

Running on the nut in Metropolis Zone was only going left or right, but it was easy to figure out since it locked you onto the nut and pressing one direction got you instant feedback and that it was intuitive. The crescents in Star Light Zone that are spiked on the bottom and can scoop you up into a ball just needed to have you jump out of it, it was intuitive. Hell, lets use a later example in Death Egg Zone in Sonic & Knuckles. Those bridges that shift due to your weight. You see the side you are on sags so you quickly begin to understand how they function and that is how they function.

All of these obstacles and gimmicks are all easily understood and give correct feedback and all utilize Sonic's pre-existing move set to tackle them.

The barrel does not.

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>>389681174
You walk into it like every single elevator in Sonic games. You don't ever need to press up in the elevators in Casino Night Zone.

>>389683105
The spin dash is a roll, though. Using up and down to move a platform usually has visual feedback, but the visual feedback is obscured by the fact that jumping has the same visual feedback. It's not intuitive at all.

>>389683351
If you have to be taken out of the game to experiment with buttons, it's bad design. Like >>389683195 said, people normally think about the reactions caused by button presses, and since Sonic never controls a platform when you press up and down, you would think doing something with his abilities would solve he problem. Also, jumping causes an immediate reaction on the barrel, the d-pad takes a little longer.

The best part is, some of the barrels just fucking completely move on their own, and can't be altered at all! There's literally zero consistency to the fucking thing, not even slightly. People shouting that it's super easy either were children that mashed their whole controller like a retard when they got stuck, or people who knew the answer before they started playing and are just trying to be contrarian.

>>389683351
All three buttons on a Genesis controller are jump

>>389683351
>1 is clearly not working

Uh, what? The barrel clearly responds to jumping, even if it doesn't ultimately work. Combine that with having tails there to muddy the waters (Not the first time the series let tails fuck you over btw.) and the fact that the barrel is offscreen after the highest possible jump, and you have a recipe for confusion.

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>>389683195
>People don't interact with games by thinking about pushing buttons
>"I turned on the game, how do I go? do I push this button?"
woo I guess it is all about the buttons you have after all
The barrel reaches it's limit immediately only by jumping, if you're not braindead or autistic you would see this, you would also notice that you want the barrel to move, not use the barrel to move you.
>>389683335
>There's only a significant visual payoff if you press the two buttons alternating a significant amount
WATCH
THE
WEBM
DEAN
This is genuinely pathetic at this point. How long have you been doing this? Months? Years? Every time you get told the same thing, and you cry and cover your eyes and come back pretending to be someone else repeating the same tired argument and ignore the same rebuttals because your mind cannot comprehend the thought that maybe you just misunderstood something that many other people figured out in a matter of seconds.

>>389682951
Please stop

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>implying meme cylinder is difficult

>>389684443
>Implying I got passed the ant lion boss on Game Gear

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I finished sonic 2 multiple times as a kid and as a teen, but I don't remember for the life of me ever getting stuck in that barrel. Is there no other route you can take to avoid it?

>>389683335
Wrong. If we're talking about the barrel already in movement, jumping doesn't actually show any visual payoff until you jump a significant amount. When you jump, the barrel continues its initial path and when you land, Sonic just clips back on to it, no shifting.
Jumping only makes an immediate difference when jumping while the barrel is stationary, however doing this can only move the barrel once.
Also let's not pretend that there aren't other one-off mechanics in this game that weren't explained
>>389683484
There's no reason to stop everything you are doing and continue jumping, however to get the barrel to make an actual shift in initial movement, you'd have to jump a few times. It's you. You were the one that kept jumping even though it only changed Sonic's height initially and it did not change the barrel's height at all. You were the one that kept doing it for no logical reason, as watching it the first few times would give the implication that it can not be moved from its initial movement.
There actually is the part in Marble Garden where you fly with tails. It's completely counter-intuitive too, as naturally playing as Tails would control differently.
You're locked onto the barrel and pushing up/down or jumping gets you the same feedback in terms of real time, as in, it takes a significant amount of time and effort in both cases to see any feedback. It's counter-intuitive either way, but that doesn't imply that it's bad game design. It's simply a new mechanic that you were asked to think about to figure out. You want to move the barrel up and down? You push up and down.

>>389683484
>There is no other instance beforehand in Sonic 3 up to that point or previous Sonic games which required you to interact with an object you had to press up and down.
Wrong again buddy boy. Every level has multiple unique gimmicks many of which use up and down buttons.
To save everyone some time they should just read the past thread to see how retarded this guy is and his general modus operandi.
He's already copying the opposition's words because he can't think for himself >>389684213

>>389683135
>d-pad control's sonic's movement
>use the d-pad to control sonic's movement on the thing
Really causes one to ponder.

>>389684521
>Is there no other route you can take to avoid it?
Yes, playing Sonic 2, since the barrel is in Sonic 3.

>>389684521
You're probably just not retarded. Don't worry, it happens.

>>389684515
I played it on SMS and i've completed it a bunch of times.

>>389684149
stop posting this webm. I made it as a joke, it's fake. That's not a real section in the game. Please stop associating it with your little outbursts

>>389684521
By playing Sonic 2 because that barrel is from Sonic 3/& Knuckles.

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>>389684645
>>389684816

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>>389684748
Sonic doesn't go up by pressing up. And pressing down makes him crouch or roll. It's a sidescroller game.

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>>389684769
o-oh, that explains it.

>>389677892
I've beaten Sonic 3 at least a dozen times as a kid and this is the first time I've ever hard of using the d-pad on that.
Just kept timing jumps on it until it gave way.
Always assumed it was babbys first casual filter.

>>389684987
He does when he's on something that can take him up and down. Like the barrel, Tails during the Marble Garden bossfight, and Hydrocity poles.

This could have been solved if there was an additional visual indication that pressing up and down did anything. Sonic just stands there on the barrel regardless of your inputs and the oscillation is visually identical to the bouncing it does when you land on it.

>>389685006
liar. It's physically impossible to get through via jumping

>>389685205
Git gud faggt

>>389684794
Wish I played it on that, there is zero reaction time given for the bouncing balls.

>>389685006
A "casual filter" is not an excuse for shitty, cheap design.
Dark souls 2 is poorly designed too.

>>389680184
Up and down arrows are used for the ratchet things in Mushroom Hill

>>389685396
So in Sonic & Knuckles, not Sonic 3.

>>389684542
>it takes a significant amount of time and effort in both cases to see any feedback
Actually, as shown in the webm that he keeps ignoring, the barrel immediately starts increasing in velocity from the very first cycle. It starts gradually but it's far from difficult to notice. It's also easier to notice than it is if you're jumping because you're focusing mainly on the barrel relative to it's surroundings which aren't rapidly shifting due to you jumping.

>>389685396
Up isn't used. You press down to pull on the pulley. The pulley moves down instantly and noticeably when you press down. Letting go moves you up and doesn't reset you back to the beginning when you stop pressing down.

>>389685496
>>389685569
defend the tails fight then, go on, i wanna see you do it

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>>389682173
I can handle the barrel, but let's be honest; nothing in the entire game up to this point nor after really requires using up and down. With no Super Peel-Out, holding up is only for looking up, and down is only for looking down and the Spin Dash. As a result of no conveyance, and no consistency, the barrel being controlled by pressing up and down is basically something out of left field for a new player.

It's like when Mighty No. 9 forces a player to deal with Crouch Dashing underneath two instant death pink generators with pixel perfect precision. The problem is that up to that point, the character automatically crouchdashed under low ceilings, and indeed, it's at best used maybe once or twice manually in the entire rest of the game afterwards as well but only mandatory for that one part. Consequently, the (retarded) devs put a button prompt for this as a band-aid ontop of the problem.

You don't introduce a gimmick with a unique method of control for one zone with absolutely no conveyance and then don't even bother to try to have anything else like that, much less with no way to actually teach the player beyond trial-and-error or the devs directly stepping in and saying "this is what you do".

>>389685678
What kinda faggot plays the game solely as tails?

>>389685678
"up and down to fly is natural even though it's not how Tails flies and only I get to choose what's ok and what isn't"

>>389685390
Casual filter as in "learn to time your jumps properly you little shit", not "learn to compare everything to a below average game that's only difficult if you're unobservant".

>>389685678
Defend Marble Garden? That is the worst zone in the Genesis Sonic games.

>>389685564
that immediate movement is the barrel's initial movement. It does that right when you step on it. The guy in the webm starts pushing up/down around 3 seconds in and you don't see any noticeable difference until about 7 seconds in. I do agree on the surroundings thing though

This barrel was nothing but bad game design. The ONLY other instance where you really used Dpad to control a mechanism was the rachets in Mushroom Hill, and that was obvious what had to be done.

This not only doesn't seem practical to use Dpad, but also leads you into a false sense of action by moving once you land on it, making you think that you have to jump and use momentum to get it to move. You can't say the "Visual Design" was a hint because it fit in with the rest of the level, and if I remember, there were already barrels like this that simply spun around with the same design.

>>389685703
fucking read the god damn thread, it's been said like 10 times already

>>389685678
Jumping causes you to fall off, and having Tails stop for a second to gain a little height is a very instant and noticeable difference from constantly falling. You only need to do it once to see the effects.

>>389685952
if you got stuck on the cylinder you have literally no business talking about game design.

>There are "people" who actually got stuck on the barrel and ran out of time
>Spending minutes doing the same thing with no result, and not trying any new technique, not even pressing up to go up or down to go down
How is it even possible to be this dumb?

>>389686206
Even without the barrel, Carnival Night's pretty long. On my S3 Complete run a couple weeks ago, I was upwards to eight minutes by the time I hit the act two boss, and that was with minimal issues involving the barrel.

>>389685879
Wrong. He starts pressing up and down immediately, the height at 2 seconds is the initial height from that first step onto it (reaching the top of the yellow mark) and the following height at 3 seconds is higher (reaching the next notch in between the previous and next yellow mark). I ain't saying watch the webm for the good of my health.
>>389685952
What did I tell you all? The only new addition Dean's making here is the mention of the other barrels which are IMMEDIATELY recognizable as being and working completely different because of how they move, how they react and where they are located. Also the visual design of the walls is less of a hint and more of a visual aid to make the change in height more easily apparent. For people that look at what they're doing anyway.

>>389677892

There's no indication anywhere in the game that alludes to the fact that pressing up and down shifts your weight. Why should it, either? Pressing up just tilts Sonic's head. Meanwhile jumping on it causes it to bounce around, and is incidentally all you need to do to interact with every single other bouncing column in the Zone.

Compare it to, say, the lifts in Lava Reef Zone that you have to spindash on to move up and down. There's nothing explicitly telling you how to operate these machines, but their designs and the fact they don't respond to anything except a spindash means players can intuitively figure it out, along with the fact that literally 99% of problems in the game are solved by jumping or spindashing (the other 1% being this particular barrel).

Yes, anyone should be able to figure it out relatively quickly just by pressing buttons, but isn't that bad game design in itself? If a game element leaves you so clueless that you just start hitting every button on your controller hoping that one of them has a special, unknown function that will work? It's definitely shitty game design, even though it is not as difficult to overcome as some people make it out to be.

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>>389685108
>>389685678

None of those are comparable, and in regards to the Tails fight on Marble Garden, it's pretty simple: when you are Sonic, you are on the ground, and since it's a sidescroller game, you can go left or right; when you are Sonic + Tails you are on the air, so you can move freely on the four directions. If you press jump, Sonic jumps, so you immediately knows the response of the 3 action buttons on the controller. What is left is up and down on the d-pad, both of wich give a different and immediate response to your inputs: going up and down.

>>389686206
>The barrel reacts when I jump on it
>Jumping at the right time launches me higher
>Maybe I'm just timing it wrong
Cue 5+ minutes of jumping on the barrel to find the right rhythm.

>>389686035
and? All you had to do was push up and down for a bit to see the effects. The same way you had to jump for a bit to see the effects. There's no immediate visual cue for either scenario unless you jump when the barrel is completely still, yet after that the barrel would lock back into it's initial movement until you jumped a few more times, after a bit more of jumping it will clip back to it's natural position. You'd have to be daft to continue jumping after seeing these effects. If you push up and down for about the same amount of time as jumping, the barrel will stay in that movement and will not lock up or clip.

>>389686473
Nailed it. >>389685784

>>389686473
>it's okay when i say it is

>>389686063
>if you fall for bad game design, as a child, then you can't talk about game design

Excellent logic. kys

There's also the fact that even if you do start using up and down, the effects aren't exactly immediate and require timing. So either way you do it, you're still hitting a complexity that, in the following Ice Cap Zone, has similarly timed platforms that solely respond to when you press the jump button and how much momentum a drop carries into the platforms.

Maybe I have ADHD or something but I never press up and rarely down in a platformer whether it's mario, sonic, megaman, etc. Seems kind of pointless

>>389685808
No, because the proper way to do this is to randomly and unassistedly stumble across the solution of using up/down on the d-pad.
That didn't require any "skill" or "game knowledge". It's just poorly designed.
Stop shilling.

SHUT UP YOU CASUALS THE BARREL WAS GOOD GAME DESIGN BECAUSE IT OUTED THE SHITTERS GAMES NEED TO BE LESS CAUSAL AND MORE PUNISHING BECAUSE GE BACK THEN HAS CHALLENGE TO THEM

>>389686664
This is figured out in seconds since you get instant feed back on what you are doing. If Tails always needed the player the mash the jump button to make him go higher on flight and that is just making Sonic jump but Tails is flying and he can still go higher then there has to be another button I can use.

There is nothing deceptive about it. It wasn't like to ascend was mapped to the C button or anything like that for the single fight.

>>389686503
>wait on my first jump I reach the roof and can't go higher
>wait there's a path downwards that I can somewhat see but jumping mostly just lets me go higher
>wait this timing is barely changing even if I do it perfectly
All achievable in about 5 seconds.

>>389677892
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1I8pVi981I

>>389681830
I agree

>>389686452
The ONLY thing that tells you to press up and down, is if you just so happen to press up and down. That's FLAWED DESIGN. Maybe it'd be alright, but there is a time limit to each level. You can't point at a visual design of the level and say that it's supposed to help you, because the entire level of Carnival Night Zone is an aesthetic eye popping carnival design. Those "Visual Aids" simply look like decorations.

>>389686865
Maybe you just suck at timing your jumps.

>>389686928
Don't false flag Dean, you're not smart enough for it.

>>389686745
how am I supposed to engage in a discussion about complexity if you couldn't figure out momentum in a sonic game?

>>389686779
They require timing, just like jumping. Jumping shows no immediate effect unless you jump while the barrel is stationary. How many times must I say this?
Also there's the previous Marble Garden where you used the up and down buttons to move something (in this case, Tails) up and down, just as you would the barrel

>>389686928
I bet you think I Wanna Be The Guy is actually good and fair game design.

>>389681118

Remind me, the Tails fight? Marble Garden was my favorite zone, but I can't remember that part.

>>389687040
The ONLY thing that tells you to jump, is if you just so happen to jump.

>>389687114
Who the fuck is Dean, kill yourself
>>389687134
Yes it has a certain challenge to it

>>389677892
>ignoring the fact that many of us actually did get past the barrel by jumping
>ignoring the fact that there are barrels earlier in the stage that are overcome by jumping, which is the only training we get before this obstacle
>ignoring the fact that pressing up and down on the barrel when it's at a standstill has no effect whatsoever, meaning that jumping is the only action that produces immediate feedback
>ignoring the fact that pressing up and down while the barrel is already in motion only has an apparent effect if sustained long enough, as at first it merely appears the barrel is still moving from the momentum gathered by jumping
>ignoring the fact that, apart from only encountering obstacles that present contradictory information prior to this, no such obstacle is present anywhere afterward in either S3 or S&K

S3K is my third favourite game ever. But I won't hesitate for a second in calling this out as blatantly terrible design.

>>389687125
Because the barrel wasn't meant to be moved with momentum, it was meant to be moved with the DPad. The bad design comes in when it gives you NO CLUE that you were supposed to use the Dpad and instead leads you on to think that momentum (Which is an extremely slow way to move the barrel as well as be succesful at it) is what you are supposed to use.

>>389685784
Tails flies by tapping the jump button. Doing that during the boss DOESN'T WORK, so you try something else. It's not like the barrel, where it LOOKS like it works, it definitely absolutely doesn't fucking work.

>>389687206
When playing as sonic, even without tails, the fight has you flying with tails. Contrary to how he normally flies, this time you push up and down to move him up and down

>>389677892
Something as simple as having the arrows light up when you hold the corresponding button would have easily fixed this problem. The pulleys in Mushroom Hill have never caused problems because they have an immediate visual reaction that the barrel lacks.

>>389687134
>>389687265
I told you Dean.

>>389687128
>Jumping doesn't produce an immediate effect unless you jump on it.
>Jumping on the barrel begins its cycle
>Jumping while the barrel is cycling increases its momentum
Look man I get you're baiting and all but this isn't quite "jumping and dashing at the same time"

>>389687258
When you walk on it, the barrel bobs a little. Even then, the entire game uses Jumping as a main mechanic. You jump to get on springs, to break things, to damage enemies, and to avoid traps and obstacles. So when the thing reacts to you moving on it, your weight, then it is only assumed that you need to jump. This causes the barrel to move even more, so players think they have to use momentum, which of course is extremely difficult and takes time to do.

Bad, design.

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>>389687296
>Because the barrel wasn't meant to be moved with momentum, it was meant to be moved with the DPad.
nevermind, I see the problem now.

godspeed anon.

>>389687275
read the thread, dean
>>389687296
>push up and down for 2 seconds
>see that it moves the barrel
ah yes, i too had adhd

>>389687128
You're wrong. Jumping shows an immediate effect by launching you higher if you jump while the barrel is lower. Your instance that the only immediate effect of jumping is when the barrel is at a stand still is false.

In Marble Garden you press up and Tails goes up. In Mushroom Hill you press down and the pulley moves up. In Carnival Night you press down, then up, alternating back and forth, with the correct timing, consistently, multiple times. Or you jump, and you move up.

>>389687128
>Also there's the previous Marble Garden where you used the up and down buttons to move something (in this case, Tails) up and down, just as you would the barrel
Stop pointing to the Tails fight. Tails can fly naturally within the game as is, even if the controls are different for this one battle, and falling into the abyss below doesn't kill you with a bottomless pit for once and ONLY this once. When Eggman keeps moving in from different directions, it's only natural to move your character through the free space like you would when flying as Tails normally.

The barrel is something you land on, responds to the player's physics when jumped on, and there's no inclination, no light up, no signal, nothing except awkwardly timed and shifting momentum when you press Up and Down on it. To any player, it'd just look like another momentum/physics gimmick. And even if you do use Up and Down, the effects on the momentum aren't immediate, so it can be hard to tell until a player dedicates to doing it.

I'm not even going to read this thread. I'm just posting to remind everyone who ironically had trouble with this that they're legitimately retarded. You were a dumb kid with dumb friends, and anyone with the slightest bit of common sense figured this out with no issues.

>>389687258
The funny thing is that jumping isn't what even causes the reaction, it's purely landing on the barrel.

>>389687435
>Dean
>Dean
>Dean
Is this all you can say? Shut the fuck up with that I'm actually agreeing that people who got stuck on the barrel are shitters

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>>389678739
I'll use this video then:
https://youtu.be/2Rs35yd2Jg4?t=5543
Why is something with the "hints" that allude that the barrel is suppose to go up and down going left and right? You had two types of barrels, one that was bouncy and another that was on a track either going up and down, left and right, or square like track patterns. Not only that but it does have a design straight out of a circus. How are the triangles a hint to go up and down when circus barrels often have those designs? If I jump on this circus barrel and look up and down will it make me ascend and descend? No, the first thing you think about is that it is a big tent barrel.

>>389678161
yeah I figured it out months later when I was 6, but I actually cleared it by jumping thanks to Tails.

>>389677892
There's no hints. That's it. It's bad game design. They apologized for it. It's over. Move on.

>>389687464
learn to read. If you jump on the barrel for the first time or two while it's already moving, your jump has no effect on it. It only effects it when the barrel is still. To increase its momentum, you need to jump at least 3 times. That's NOT immediate reaction. That's just as slow as having to push up and down a few times.
>>389687532
That's not an effect on the barrel, that's an effect on you. Everything else you list has you moving the object, NOT Sonic. You move Tails and you move the pulley. As for the barrel, once again I have to say that jumping does not affect the barrel unless you jump 3 times. So if you jump, you go up, yes. But the barrel? It continues its natural path as if nothing happened.

>>389687348
>>389687561
>it's ok when I say it is
Do you have fun repeating yourself even when it's entirely wrong, Dean?
Reminder to everyone to watch the webm right here.
>>389684149
Let it sink in just how blind Dean is.

>>389680570
Why include "female" as a qualifier?

>>389677892
>HOW was I supposed to know you had to push up and down?
By pressing down by accident.

>>389687265
Ya it just throws random fucking things at you. You are just a retard that thinks a "Hard Game" is to throw things at you and hope you get it without any sort of warning or indication. Even Dark Souls doesn't fall for that shitty design concept. It's not fun, nor does it make any more "Difficult". It just makes it a cheap shitty game.

>>389687747
the "hint" is to look at the fucking barrel and see its momentum change

>>389688017
So you're as retarded as XV-kun is about his boogeyman of NeithOF.

>>389687561
READ. THE. THREAD.

>>389681174
>floating, turning platform that bounces up and down
>elevator

????

>>389688084
Those people need to git gud, that's the end of it

>>389683105
The correct example would be
>roll into a wall
>the wall breaks
>keep doing it and get past all types of paths
>roll into a wall
>wall cracks
>roll again
>wall cracks more
>wall keeps cracking the more you roll, but never breaks
>press button that has gone unused up until this point
>nothing happens
>roll into wall again, then press button
>just more cracking, nothing more seems to have been accomplished
>time over
>keep trying to break wall by rolling
>time over many many many many times
>eventually manage to slip through a crack in the wall caused by rolling
>time over before you reach checkpoint or end of level
>discover years later that you slipped past as the result of a glitch and that you were supposed to roll into the wall to get it started, then press the unused button and keep pressing it until the wall breaks
>play the rest of the game and never come across anything even remotely similar or any reason to use that one button ever again

>>389688017
You're talking to like four different people, anon. Are you off your paranoia meds again?

>>389688180
People are repeating their arguments left and right all over the place, and the baiters keep falling back onto the same "but muh tails fight in marble garden is the same".

There's no point in antagonizing people to read the thread when the thread's going in circles.

>>389687531
>push up and down for 2 seconds
>don't see that it moves the barrel
>because either the barrel wasn't moving and you can't move it with up and down if it's at a standstill
>or else because the barrel was already moving from when you jumped on it and all movement at this point appears to come from leftover momentum from jumping and you have to keep pressing up and down for longer for it to become apparent that it's having any effect at all
Fucking idiot.

>>389688410
they're repeating them because idiots like you refuse to read the formerly made posts and realize that your comments have already been addressed

>>389687997
>it continues on its natural path as if nothing happened
Except for the fact that jumping off of it pushes it down even when it's moving. LANDING ON IT doesn't change its natural path, it just starts it if it was at a stand still. But JUMPING OFF will effect it regardless of how much it was moving when you jumped. That's the bit that throws people off: jumping moves the barrel, getting onto a stationary barrel moves the barrel, but getting onto a moving barrel doesn't move the barrel any further, which is why jumping up and landing on it stops working. But that's not obvious because the barrel is off screen by the time this happens so you can't see how it was moving.

I got stuck on that one part of phantom hourglass where you have to close the DS to stamp the map, too.

>>389688697
watch the webm, dean

>>389688192
Except that analogy is completely wrong because if you would watch the webm there is an immediate reaction when you press up and down. The simple fact of the up and down method being much easier to control and use would lead a person without brain problems to keep using it and succeed where landing on the barrel to push it down fails. If rolling into the wall required very precise timing and positioning, and there was a button that autoaimed the roll to the required spot and caused bigger cracks then only a fool would go back to the first method that was already not helping.

>>389688590
wew, the absolute state of this guy, he really can't accept that the barrel is easy to get past.

>>389688780
>Stuck here and can't back out
>Put it in sleep mode to try something else
>Open it back up right away to check again
>Congrats, you did it
This must be what solving the barrel was like.

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>>389684149
>playing S3 Complete with the S2 sprites
>using one post as an entire basis beyond an argument to lump everyone that disagrees with them under some nebulous shitposter in a refusal to believe so many people could disagree with them

I didn't know that Iizuka posted on /v/ to vehemently defend his Japanese honor like this.

>>389689075
That's what shitposting is all about, dean

>>389689209
Go back to /co/ if you're so obsessed with Dean's asshole, jesus christ you're the worst Supernatural fan ever

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>>389688746
incorrect. Watch closely, it continues moving up and then moves down on it's natural path. It's a bit hard to see because it goes off screen quickly but you can play the game yourself to see it better, you can even test out to see how far it will go up before jumping compared to after jumping, it will reach the same height either way and then go back down.

Deeeean aaahhoooOOhh WEHEHEEH dEANANAN DEEEEAN MUH BOOII DEEAN

On the PC version you had to press Tab. Fuck the barrel.

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>>389689075
>he likes the S3 sprites more than the S2 sprites

>>389681546
Hi, OP.

>>389689457
That's bullshit, but I believe it.

>>389689075
It's crazy right? But surely if there were several people they wouldn't type in exactly the same way across several threads and ignore the same posts in favor of posting the same tired excuses that have been refuted time and again. Also this is another classic diversionary tactic that has nothing to do with the barrel, try adding something to the argument if you actually can. The kicker is that I actually vaguely remember once seeing something about a guy in /vr/ making constant barrel threads and generally acting in the same autistic manner, I guess Mania and Cuphead brought him out of retirement.
Also that's not my webm and now that you mention it that is pretty shitty, the Sonic 3 sprites were much better and it's a shame Mania didn't take after those ones.

>>389689404
Huh. But then why did it always seem to get so far if you had tails helping you push it?

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>he didn't think to use telekinesis on the barrel

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>>389689651
>helping
yeah right

>>389689651
Because you had two people landing on it, with the second landing on it when it's on it's lower point.

>>389689623
If people believe everything's already been discussed as is, it's hardly a diversion tactic when there's nothing to really divert from.

Besides that weird deanposter thing. I don't even want context for that, do I?

>>389688802
You mean that webm of someone moving the barrel from walking on it and knew what to do already and is therefore in no way representative of anyone's experience discovering the real method because anyone who found out on their own would have done so while jumping where the visual response to pressing up and down takes much longer to present itself because of the momentum generated by jumping and ultimately doesn't forward your argument one inch?

>>389688924
>if you would watch the webm there is an immediate reaction
Even in that ideal situation the reaction is not immediate. It still takes a couple of seconds from the transition from the incredibly minor momentum of stepping onto the barrel to the momentum from pressing up and down. And again, that's not a realistic scenario, because everyone would have been jumping and the reaction from that takes MUCH longer. Immediate is when you jump, the INSTANT you land the barrel goes down. You're still a fucking idiot.

>>389689623
>>389689075
I am the guy who made the webms. Yeah I like the Sonic 2 sprites more and I don't like the elemental shields, sue me. I only made the webm to show that you could push up and down on other barrels.
>>389689404
I made this one just to show how high you can get by jumping

I'm not the one autistically screaming "dean"

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>>389689813
Well that makes a lotta sense I guess. In reality, the only full playthrough I've ever done of sonic 3 & knux was sonic+tails. It would explain a lot. I mean I figured it out on my own, thankfully but it did seem pretty tricky. I guess I was just a goof.

How is Sonic even logically moving The Barrel when you're holding up and down? His model is just standing still rotating in a circle no matter what you're pressing. No shit that we as kids assume you must need to jump instead of thinking Sonic can alter the barrel's momentum with his mind.

If you want people to insult about being 'retarded at Sonic,' insult the people that died to the Mean Bean Machine boss on Mania without getting shat on by bad luck. The Barrel's infamous for a reason, and /v/ deductive skills only go so far without comprehending that not everyone thinks the same.

>>389690084
>moving the goalpost
also, watch the webms, the reaction actually takes longer when jumping. We've also already acknowledged that landing on the barrel doesn't affect it's momentum when it's already moving until you do it a few times

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>>389689745
FUCK OFF SILVER, NOBODY EVEN LIKES YOU.

>>389690017
>If people believe everything's already been discussed as is
If they did then why would they keep repeating the same things over and over again?
Dean is just a joke reference to the hottest new meme of the minute which has been literally everywhere on the board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOjXaAZHEQE

>>389690786
Oh, that. It's so vapid that I forgot that guy's name entirely.
I guess Sonic really does bring out the worst in some people.

>>389690114
>not liking the elemental shields
Darn right I'd sue you if I could, what's not to like about cool powerups that give nice additions to your moveset and let you do new interactions. The only downside is that it takes away the Instashield but that's fairly basic in it's use so it's a net gain for fun.

>>389690507
>taking realistic logic into account instead of defaulting to an ideal scenario is moving the goalpost
F U C K I N G

I
D
I
O
T

>the reaction actually takes longer when jumping
Building momentum takes longer when jumping, but you get immediate momentum and immediate visual feedback, which you don't get with up and down, which is the problem to begin with.

>We've also already acknowledged that landing on the barrel doesn't affect it's momentum when it's already moving until you do it a few times
Everyone would think to do it though. Everyone's jumped on a trampoline or at least on their bed as a kid. Everyone knows that you gain more height as you bounce if you time each jump right. That real-world experience would lead to trying it in the game. No such real-world experience leads to pressing up and down because no one ever tried repeatedly moving an elevator up and down floors repeatedly to see if it would move faster and reach new sub-basement levels or some shit.

>>389690992
But only a vocal minority were stopped at the barrel, many people can be very good at Sonic games if they simply try.

>>389691339
I meant the autistic poster, not unskilled play.

>>389691339
>vocal minority
You're wrong.

>>389690337
To be fair, that's not technically being bad at Sonic, that's just sucking ass at Puyo Puyo. That said, I'm clinically retarded when it comes to Puyo Puyo, and as long as you're just clearing Puyos without even trying to chain, Eggman will eventually kill himself for you.

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>>389691256
>no one ever tried repeatedly moving an elevator up and down floors repeatedly to see if it would move faster and reach new sub-basement levels or some shit.

SHIT YOU'RE RIGHT THOSE FUCKERS

>>389691478
You should see some of the posts involving it. Eggman's gotten 4-chains, some players are so autisticly bad at Puyo that they kill themselves faster than Eggman can. And there's that one Sonic Retro poster who basically bitched at length that he's so bad at Puyo that the entire game sapped all the fun out of it.

>>389690084
Yes, the webm of someone moving the barrel in a situation that is wholly identical to what it would be like for someone who had been trying to jump on it previously, because landing on it causes it to start moving and you can transition into using up and down and still get a noticeable reaction in the exact same way if you're paying attention (to the thing you're specifically aiming to achieve might I add), and if you jump on it and then go off of it it eventually resets to default anyway, ultimately blowing every argument you've tried to make out of the water.
Again, the very first cycle hits it's max height at 2 seconds, then the second cycle hits max height at 3 seconds, with a small but very noticeable difference. It's funny that you're trying to call it unrealistic as if there's any real kind of variance in this scenario that would obscure the height change. Outside of you yourself not watching the obvious I guess.

>>389691694
Maybe he's like... color-blind? I don't know man matching some fucking colored blobs is real easy.

>>389689404
>you get immediate momentum and immediate visual feedback
no you don't. Recall >>389691256
When you jump and when you land, there is no visual clue anywhere until about the third time you land. The only thing you'd be able to note is that Sonic jumps higher depending on where the barrel is. Of which has nothing to do with the case at hand.
As for your real life analogies, yes you'd THINK that it'd be the right thing to do, but it's not. What YOU think has no bearing on what the games think. When you run into a loop and sonic faces left, you'd think to push left, but you're supposed to push right.
As for the moving goalpost thing, fine. Let's look at things from your scenario. A new player comes across the barrel. He's stuck. He walks onto it. It bounces. He decided to jump. He gets a boost high into the air but he can see there's nothing up there. He jumps again anyway. The same thing happens. He can see that his jumps don't seem to affect the barrel yet. What does he do? He jumps more? Why? Realistically, at this point the player would stop jumping and attempt to find another way around the barrel. Yes, he wouldn't know to push up and down but from what he'd seen so far, he'd know that jumping isn't going to do anything. The only way he'd continue to jump is if he already went for the third jump, which is the one that changes the barrel's momentum. From there you could say that'd he continue to jump, but eventually the barrel is going to snap back its initial position. Then what will he do? Jump more? New to the game or not, this player would have to be pretty dumb to continue doing something that doesn't seem to work

>>389691413
>doesn't notice such a simple play on words
If you have to explain the joke there's no joke anymore. I really don't think you're one to talk about autism unless you're telling others what it's like coping with it.
>>389691465
Nope. You underestimate just how many people bought and completed Sonic 3.

>>389691796
>Yes, the webm of someone moving the barrel in a situation that is wholly identical to what it would be like for someone who had been trying to jump on it previously
That's not landing on it from a jump, it's stepping onto it, jumping on it produces more movement and makes the response to up and down take longer

>It's funny that you're trying to call it unrealistic as if there's any real kind of variance in this scenario that would obscure the height change
Jumping, which does, and is why your arguments are stupid and you're trying to control a scenario to put it into a situation no one would have encountered on their own.

>>389692094
Jumping on the barrel does impact the momentum. You have to time it right. That guy keeps landing on the upswing, which cancels some upward momentum instead of adding to the downward momentum, which is how you get the barrel to move more.

Pinche idiota.

>>389692562
if he's doing it so wrong then why don't you record the right way? You can do that, can't you?

>>389692094
>What does he do? He jumps more? Why?
Because jumping gave him a positive response, and he just spent 3 and a half zones jumping on things. We've been over this countless times.

>>389693169
>Because jumping gave him a positive response
And allowed him to pass earlier, seemingly identical tests only a few minutes ago, let's not forget.

>>389693169
he has just tried jumping and it did not help. Why would he jump more? I wouldn't call doing nothing "positive response". Just because he did it before does not mean he needs to do it now.
>>389693318
we're assuming this is his first time ever dealing with a barrel, considering that you can avoid former barrels. If we were going by the assumption that he's using previous knowledge then you could argue for the opposite's case and say that because the previous barrels could be moved down by pushing up/down, he'd think to do it now seeing as he needs to get down

>>389677892
The main problem is that pressing up and down in a rhythm doesn't even make sense in the context of Sonic's movements. What, is he shifting his weight from his shoes to his head over and over>

>>389682173
Why even have the barrel react to jumping if it's not supposed to be used to control it? Bad game design.

>>389684443

this was unironically the best sonic game (gamegear version) after the megadrive sonics

>>389692562
>jumping on it produces more movement and makes the response to up and down take longer
It only produces some additional movement if you land on it after it starts moving and at a specific point in it's cycle, and that does not make the response to using up and down take longer unless you are seriously considering the slightly longer cycle as the response and I should not have to explain how fundamentally mistaken that would be.
>Jumping, which does
Yes, if you jump at it's height and can't see the barrel due to the screen moving, but that is entirely on you and not something that makes the barrel itself mysterious. The barrel itself acts exactly the way it does in the webm, doesn't take much doing when you've got 5 buttons but it does take some basic recognition.
And even when jumping perfectly on it, the height of the jumps end up hitting a limit very quickly where you can't further the barrel just by landing on it.
>>389693169
>We've been over this countless times.
Oh we sure have, before you try to capture my favourite trick maybe think about how it applies. Because we've already told you there are many opportunities to use multiple buttons on the D-pad.
>>389693318
Except they're not identical and they're not tests until the very specific barrels that are set up to show that you need to do more to proceed.

>>389693724
why make your cock cum from fapping when you're supposed to cum from fucking?

>>389693963
Get lost, you immature little shit.

>>389693724
Because it reacts from landing, and it lets them use the same obstacle in multiple fun ways without having the game so rigidly coded that you can't do anything without it being specifically scripted.

>>389694220
Except it's basically tricking the player since they can't get through all of them like that.

Jumping onto the barrel is intuitive because it's something you'd naturally do in a Sonic game, and it leads the player on since it actually responds to this. All up and down does is move the camera. There's no reason to assume that it's going to move a specific object in the game.

>>389694041
t. virgin

>>389572907

>>389680570
I've never watched her before but in that stream she cleared all the blue sphere stages like a goddamn pro. She's alright.

>>389694586
Good one, you stupid faggot.

>>389694815
yes that is the thread that began as a general mania thread and devolved into a giant fight over the barrel. Thank you for posting that, you have really contributed to this thread's discussion

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>>389677892
>ITT Dean Takahashi plays Sonic 3

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>>389694886
thank you, i try

There is no immediate reaction to holding up or down, while there is an immediate reaction to jumping on it. It's counter-intuitive.

>>389695175
can someone actually fucking show me the immediate reaction? I can't see it. The barrel just continues at its natural pace and in its natural path. I don't see it bounce further down or shoot up quickly

>>389695293
When you first jump on it when it's still, it bounces.

>>389683135
>up
>doesn't control sonic tho
wow
truly gemius design
makes you think of power of our mind and stuf

>>389691694
>Eggman's gotten 4-chains.

You know, I can totally understand being horribly depressed if it's you're first time playing Puyo and the easiest fucking AI of that game's lifetime miraculously chained you into oblivion. You're probably cursed by some spiteful deity if Mania's Eggman 4-chains you, so you should probably seek some kind of witch doctor

I mean Eggman is made so pathetically easy so you can watch what the fuck he's doing for a good minute and learn the absolute basic mechanics behind the game and still beat him. You almost have to try to lose against him, so I really find it hard that some people are either just that retarded, or they see in straight up black and white like a fucking manga. I understand only the core concept of the game and know nothing of stacking and building chains like people who've played this shit for 20 some odd years do, ago and Eggman still gets beaten easily. I'd like to get proper good at Puyo eventually because watching other people play, it looks pretty fun when you're good at it, but boy was it humbling playing Puyo Puyo Tetris and having a new asshole bored out and fucked by a CPU.

>>389694430
No, you tricked yourself. You stumbled into one option, assumed it was the only way you could use it, then shortly after when it didn't work anymore you refused to accept that and starting beating your head against it using the same method for over 10 minutes, in a game with 5 buttons no less.
>All up and down does is move the camera
Nope.
>There's no reason to assume that it's going to move a specific object in the game.
Apart from all those other times you use those buttons and the noticeably new stance Sonic takes. Here we go again.
>>389695175
Webm.

>>389695343
yeah but what about when it's already moving?

>>389681454
he's right though, even as aspie can detect blatant sarcasm.

>>389695343
Exactly the same as when you walk onto it, so it's the "getting on" reaction.

>>389695519
A large number of people had an issue with knowing the basic controller operation for those elevators, so clearly the game design wasn't intuitive. It's up to developers to make it clear what buttons do what functions, and players should never have to randomly just start mashing their controller to figure out something in the game, especially long after the basic rules have been established.

>>389696342
You're right. It's counter-intuitive. Just like a bunch of other shit in the game. Why don't we just agree that 3&K overall is just a bunch of bad game design?

>>389696485
>Why don't we just agree that 3&K overall is just a bunch of bad game design?
Nah, the barrel is pretty stupid I won't deny that but the game itself is still incredibly fun to play even to this day.

>>389695519
Name one instance outside of this shit where up and down does anything important.

>>389696342
except for the fact that in the last 2 zones, you had to use the up and down buttons to move sonic up and down respectively, thus implanting the idea of being able to move sonic or an object up and down via those buttons

>>389696557
that's pretty hypocritical, don't you think? If you're going to call out the barrel, you've got to call out the other stuff too

>>389696571
>>389685108
These are also not counting any instances past Carnival Night Zone (because you wouldn't know about those yet) as well as looking up and down, rolling, spindashing and climbing.

You can't argue about how hard it is to figure something out if you already know the answer. You're working the logic backwards from the solution instead of looking from the perspective of someone with no prior knowledge.

>>389696978
did you read the thread, buddy?

>>389696978
Ok, I guess no one can ever discuss anything like this because we all know it now, even though we all had to learn it ourselves at first.

>>389696978
this

>>389677892
I actually managed to get under it just by jumping on it over and over again until it was at peak height, spinning around and sneaking under at the last millisecond

>>389696978
>>389697239
we already covered this topic, fags. Read the thread next time

>>389696826
It's been a while since I played the game so mind refreshing me? Because I don't remember much other moments as bad as the barrel.

>>389680570
>Knows a couple speedrun tricks
>Clears blue spheres with ease
>Kind enough to humor the Arin wannabe next to her

It's time to admit your biasm against females.

>>389697448
This. Vinny is a loser autist who's fucking terrible at video games. No wonder /v/ likes him so much.

>>389696682
You definitely don't have to move up and down in Hydrocity if that's what you mean. As a kid I beat the game multiple times without ever trying to slide up those poles in Hydrocity. And in both the pole's case and The Barrel it's retarded because Sonic's model doesn't even do anything to make him move. In the pole's case I can pretend he's moving his arms to slide up and down but apparently with The Barrel he's just moving the momentum of an object with sheer force of will.

>>389697446
>the part where you have to push up and down to climb the rope on top of the giant egg
>the part where you have to push up and down to make eggman eat a pile of dog shit
>the part where you fuck tails' butthole and you have to push up and down to speed up

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>>389677892
>Loved swings as a kid
>Understood simple harmonic motion
>Knew that I needed to apply force in the forward direction to maintain/increase motion
>Recognized what I was supposed to do first try.
It's one of the easiest patterns humans recognize and you dumb niggers STILL couldn't figure it out?

>>389697045
Yeah, and it's very clear there's a couple of autists that know all the ins and outs of the barrel trying to argue that literally everyone else is retarded for not figuring out how it all works within a few seconds of jumping on it. The game came out over 20 years ago, you can't remember how you worked it out.

>>389697320
Sorry I'm not invested enough in the topic to read another several hours worth of walls of text talking about how great you are and how stupid everyone else is. I even tried participating earlier while everyone was arguing that the Marble Garden boss was totally exactly the same.

>>389697717
this. You want it to go up and down, you push up and down. Fucking hell, it's sooooooo hard

>>389697826
if you read the thread, you'd know that we discussed your exact scenario of a first time player coming across the barrel. We talked about how it still wouldn't make sense for him to continue jumping after seeing that it doesn't help. You may have done it as a kid, but it makes no logical sense for someone to continue to do something that isn't producing any good results. Any rational person would try to begin experimenting with other things rather than to keep jumping

The inability to sympathize with others and see their point of view is a sign of autism. Makes sense considering it's a Sonic thread.

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>>389697976
>tfw I want Sonic to go up so I hit the up button but he just looks in the air pointlessly and I actually have to hit the jump button

>>389698269
>not understanding scenarios
when you are standing next to a swing, you don't push forward. When you are on one though, you do

>>389698210
Sonic moving the barrel magically with his mind when you hold the up and down button is what really makes no logical sense. Even when I figured it out as a kid I thought it was dumb as fuck

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>>389698269
>Barrel restricts movement
>Start pressing other buttons to see if he can do anything new in "barrel mode"
>Pressing up makes him go up
>Pressing down makes him go down
SOOOOOOOoooooooo haaaaaaard sempai!

>>389698547
tails magically flying with the up and down button didn't make sense either, but it was there, wasn't it? I sure don't see people crying about that part

Someone in a previous thread said the barrel doesn't move if you press up and down if the barrel is stationary, and it only works if the barrel is already moving. Can someone verify this? Because if it's true, it's very easy for someone who doesn't know you have to press it while moving to be on a still barrel while pressing up or down and see nothing happening and thus rule out pressing up or down as having any effect on the barrel.

>>389698752
Tails is magically flying with his tails. That's not the point. The point is whatever the fuck Sonic is even doing to move the barrel isn't what anyone would assume is the correct solution until they start hitting buttons and figure it out. You explain to me right now what the fuck Sonic is doing that makes the barrel move when you're holding the directional buttons

>>389698243
Coming from the guy who can't understand how there are many ways to naturally figure this out and who is crying about how he couldn't and insisting it's terrible only because he couldn't on a public New Zealand blacksmithing board.
>>389698547
The idea of buttons on a controller forcing a character to run is pretty insane too huh?

>>389688075
they all just sound annoying when they play games desu.

>>389698752
But you have to press the jump button to fly?
Also, if you can fly it makes sense that you can move in any direciton

>>389698910
Even if it's true, I can't imagine anybody not immediately pressing buttons the second they land on the drum.

>>389698969
he's not doing anything. When you push up and down, you're controlling the barrel not sonic.

>>389699336
And what cues does the player have that he's supposed to be controlling the barrel and not sonic?

>>389699565
>>389698579 is a perfect example of how you should have handled that situation.

The thing that really bothers me about barrelshitters is that they still complain about it being bad. We get it, you got stuck as a kid, understandable. But now you're a grown fucking man, stop acting like a baby

>>389698910
The only way the barrel can become stationary is if you step on it, then wait on it for several seconds which would be meaningless. The only way to speed up the process of making it stop would be to make several bad jumps specifically to try to curb the momentum of the barrel and then stop, which still takes time. I think doing up and down wrong can eventually cause it as well but even if it did you would realise the timing is off and that also takes time to cause.

>>389699645
That totally ignores the point that the player is given zero fucking cues that they're suddenly in 'barrel mode'.

>>389699336
Why would anyone possibly assume that they've just taken control of a fucking barrel you jumped on. One of the same barrels that you've probably been jumping on and off of a hundred times for the last 15 minutes in the same zone. I understand the argument that people should have fucked around with the controls until they figure it out but that doesn't change the fact that the solution is something that absolutely no one would think is the solution until they start fucking around with buttons and then they come and say how obvious it was.

>>389699565
happens quite a lot in the game actually

>>389699817
How is the barrel restricting your movement not a cue?

>>389699056
So what you're saying is that there was no internal logic to how you arrived at the correct inputs. You were stupid kid randomly mashing buttons all the time, happened upon the solution by chance, and never even gave it a second thought. Heck, you probably never gave it any thought in the first place since you were, and I quote, "immediately pressing buttons" as soon as you landed on it. You can't comprehend anyone ever having to figure it out because you never had to.

>>389699951
Wrong. I'm this anon >>389697717
Git gud and git fucked

>>389699903
Plenty of things restrict your movement without giving you control over them. The OTHER FUCKING BARRELS that move side to side in the same fucking act, for example.

>>389699836
Not the guy you responded to, and I haven't followed the whole argument chain here, but you can very clearly see the character snap to the barrel and rotate with it

>>389700204
The other barrels that move side to side aren't stationary objects though. The stationary ones only move when you jump on them and in simple harmonic motion at that.

>>389699836
>that part where you control tails
>that part where you control the egg mobile
>that part where you control the cannons
ah yes, this never happened before

>>389699903
Because lots of objects restrict your movement in platformer games. If you want to give players a new set of controls, any decently designed game would make it obvious.

Say, for example, when you jump on one of the animal buddies in the DKC games. You know, from the fact that Donkey or whoever is suddenly sitting on an animal, that the control scheme has changed. If Sonic assumed a different pose, or there was something on the barrel that lit up, or if there was a cockpit you could step into, or ANYTHING, that would make it clear.

>>389699860
List 3 examples of when you control a random object in Sonic 3. Tails in the Marble Zone isn't a random object and you're still controlling Sonic when you're on the Marble Zones Spinner Top thing

>>389699817
>>389699836
>Apart from all those other times you use those buttons and the noticeably new stance Sonic takes. Here we go again.

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>>389700287
>If Sonic assumed a different pose
You mean like this one?

>>389700345
The only other times Sonic takes that "standing still while on a rotating cylinder" pose is in Hyrdocity where your only option is to jump off.

>>389699336
>he's not doing anything.
THERE LIES THE FUCKING PROBLEM. When you press up and down, Sonic does NOTHING. If you press left or right, Sonic does NOTHING. The only thing that causes Sonic to do SOMETHING is jumping. If he gave ANY kind of response to Up/Down, it would be fine. Moving his arms, looking up and down, ANYTHING to hint that Sonic is actually doing something, and that pressing those buttons is the solution.

>>389700503
That's not a pose that suggests Sonic is in control of anything. It just reads as 'look at how cool our graphics on these rotating blocks are'.

Compare that to my animal buddies example, where the control is plain and obvious. Literally fucking no one complains that the controls change in those games when you're sitting on the rhino, for a reason.

>>389700586
patience. If you just pressed them for a few more seconds, you'd see the difference. If you're willing to waste 10 minutes jumping, I don't see why you couldn't waste 3 seconds pressing up and down

>>389700821
>If you just pressed them for a few more seconds, you'd see the difference.
If you just held down random buttons for several seconds without any cues that the controls have changed, you'd clear the obstacle. 10/10 game design.

>>389700537
And those cylinders are already moving and do not change when you get on them. I'm also referring to any instance where Sonic is affected by an outside object or force, which is very often controlled in a new manner.
>>389700586
Except the barrel is what you want to move, which very much does react to up and down by moving further up and down. There's a nice little webm in the thread that demonstrates that fact.
>>389700709
To you, maybe. But you're the one who kept doing the same thing over and over again in a game with 5 buttons, with 3 of them not helping. It's also you that's in control, not specifically Sonic.

>>389700586
I agree. The only visual cue is that it moves up and down in the exact same fashion as when you jump on it, and you've been trained to jump off of things that restrict you in that spinning pose by Hydrocity and the other sideways barrels.

How are you even controlling the barrel? Is this barrel a sentient being? Why can it move on its own? This one only likes to move when Sonic is standing on it but could it move without him if it wanted? Sonic's obviously not doing shit to control it. Can one of the "you're controlling the barrel" fags explain this shit

>>389700963
>if i keep jumping aimlessly for several minutes, i can clear the obstacle
that's your fucking mindset

>>389677892
the thing that fucked me up about this is that you could get higher and higher on this by jumping on it and if you did it perfectly you could get past without knowing what the fuck

>>389701146
>if I keep mashing random buttons aimlessly, I can clear the obstacle
thanks for admitting it's bad game design

>>389701146
My mindset is that I have the same controls Sonic normally has to clear an obstacle unless the game specifies otherwise. The problem is that the game never specified otherwise, and even fucking misleads you by having jumping move the obstacle more immediately than the method you're supposed to use.

>>389677892
>Never been on a barrel elevator before

you sodding yanks I swear

>>389701123
Don't bother trying to get an answer, they'll just tell you to watch a webm, as if that's supposed to answer your question.

>>389701002
>But you're the one who kept doing the same thing over and over again in a game with 5 buttons, with 3 of them not helping.
How are you counting the control pad as a single button? Are you saying that left and right could move the barrel just as easily and up and down, as long as you were pressing 'the button'?

the thing I hate the most is that the barrel will move down further if you hit it at the perfect time, so you always think that maybe you just don't have the rhythm right so you keep jumping, and when you are jumping you can't control it by pressing up/down so the false feedback actually stops you from trying to find the correct input

>>389701297
yeah it is. It's bad game design ALL AROUND. Not because you have to push up and down. It's bad all around

>>389701071
Both of those behave obviously differently from the moment they first come into view. The movable barrel is specifically placed to make you see there's another method necessary as well, because jumping clearly doesn't reach.
>>389701123
It's a videogame my nigga, you're trying to sound smart and grossly over-analyzing to cover up the simple fact you fucked up.

>>389701664
Up. Down. Left. Right. Jump. You can't go left or right while on the barrel, and trying to jump takes you off of it, while landing on it to move the barrel has a limit you reach in about 5 seconds.
>>389701754
It is literally impossible to keep hitting the "perfect" timing because of the way the jump works, which is visible right away with how you land.
>when you are jumping you can't control it by pressing up/down so the false feedback actually stops you from trying to find the correct input
What?

>>389701985
I'm not trying to sound smart. I'm trying to see the logic in this argument that anyone should expect you to suddenly be able to take control of an inanimate object in the game. The obvious solution is jumping on it. You figure out the real solution by fucking around with buttons when jumping on it doesn't work. My problem with the barrel is that the way to get past it is dumb as fuck. I never even heard people claim that you're literally controlling the barrel until this thread and then when I ask how that makes any fucking send you just say it's a video game and I should be okay with it because.

>>389701985
>the barrel responds more immediately to your jump than it does to up and down
>clearly
>the barrel even responds to well timed jumps by going further up and down
>clearly
>sonic has no visual cues that he has taken control of the barrel or that the control scheme has otherwise changed
>clearly

holy shit the amount of apologists in this thread

it's bad game design, it's shit, sega fucked up

it's the developer's responsibility to make the game intuitive, not the player's responsibility to get around a shitty mechanic that makes no sense

It has a simple solution but they did a really good job of hiding it. Take pride in the fact that you figured it out right away, not call every one else retarded.

>>389702330
>Up. Down. Left. Right. Jump.
So you're completely discounting the dash button to try and make your argument, got it.

>>389702330
>Up. Down. Left. Right. Jump.
Good idea, let's just skip the fucking level.

>>389685108
The poles make sense because Sonic is just moving himself up and down the poles.

>>389702741
>inanimate
Not from the moment you step on it, and you've done similar things in the zones before. The obvious "solution" isn't jumping on it because you don't have to jump on it to get it moving, that is just one way you can approach it and one which isn't enough in that particular instance. Also have you never played a videogame before?
>>389702786
No it doesn't. It responds to you stepping on it initially, and from there it responds just as much if not more to using up and down and said method has no limit it reaches.
The timing becomes next to impossible after about 2 jumps, and is already difficult.
Sonic's stance immediately changes reflecting the spinning barrel, the barrel starts moving and pressing left and right does nothing.
I do hate repeating myself but there's visual evidence of all this.

I just used Super Sonic to make it bounce far enough that I could just jump off and run under it.

I timed out once or twice, but eventually I just cheesed my way through. The barrel was a legitimately stupid addition, because you never really moved anything you were standing on with the d-pad. It was just weird choice to suddenly add it on. It's not like it taught you about some important mechanic in the game, this was literally a one time thing, in a single zone.

>>389703724

Okay, I should correct this, you did move those spinning tops, slightly, but never with up or down on the d-pad. You just ran to make it ascend.

I suppose it wouldn't have hurt to experiment and just press up or down, but it was just so weird and not something you commonly come across in a Sonic game. So it's understandable that people just thought "well, if I jump on it, it should go down. It appears to descend when you do".

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>>389703276
>dash button
Please explain more, I'm ready to laugh.
>>389703415
>mfw
>>389703568
Regardless, it sets a precedent that up and down can be used for things beyond looking and spinning when the situation provides.

>>389703713
>>inanimate
>Not from the moment you step on it
Oh yeah it fucking comes to life when Sonic stands on it
>and you've done similar things in the zones before
Name one fucking time an inanimate object becomes controllable in another zone when Sonic touches it. NOT Sonic controlling it

Get out of here with your fucking living barrel theories

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>>389704003
>>dash button
>Please explain more, I'm ready to laugh.
Not him but are you fucking retarded?

>>389702330
>while landing on it to move the barrel has a limit you reach in about 5 seconds
This is the problem right here. The barrrel moves when you land on it. So not only is the solution something nowhere near as intuitive as bouncing off of the barrel, the game baits you into thinking that it is the solution.

Regardless of how hard you want to grasp at straws, you cannot refute that this is shit game design.

>>389704089
Not him but
>Oh yeah it fucking comes to life when Sonic stands on it
Indeed it does. The moment you step on it, it starts moving up and down.

>>389704210
That's not a button.

After jumping on the barrel for a while, I just pressed the down button with each jump, thinking it would make it go down. The problem is, the barrel behaves in ways that make you think you're supposed to make it go down in a certain way. It was just a very strange type of challenge, and one just randomly added to a zone because fuck it, why not?

>>389677892
I legit think its bad game design

>>389704089
>reeeee the barrel is alive
All y'all that got confused by this really need to learn some chill. Anyway we've done the rest already.
>>389704210
Now tell me how do you do a spindash, dear anon?
>>389704306
You misread. That is referring to when you land back on the barrel when you have already walked onto it and started it moving. Now to blow your mind, some things in videogames can have multiple functions and uses, some areas can be proceeded through quicker by using one method or the other, the only one that baited you was yourself by assuming something that is clearly not giving you enough height or lowering the barrel enough to proceed is the only way possible. It's not a puzzle, you made it one because you didn't understand it.

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Reminds me of this stupid shit in Super Mario World, you could control these "coin snakes" with the D-pad, I guess through telekinesis, just like that stupid barrel. I never knew it as a kid and would never have known if it wasn't for the internet.

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>>389677892

>played the game in 1997/8 when 3 or 4
>got stuck on barrel
>finally beat it
>in 2002

I had to wait for Gamefaqs to exist.

>>389704889
They tell you that you can do this in one of the message blocks.

>>389704941

Reading is for faggots

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>tfw I had forgot the barrels because I passed them so easily even in my babby days

feels good to not have brain damage

>>389704841
There is no indicator in this game or any Sonic game that you can control objects with up or down. It's shit game design.

I figured it out as a kid too. Doesn't make me or you any superior to anyone who timed out trying to figure it out because it's garbage design. The reason so many people tried jumping off of the barrel to give it enough momentum to carry you up is because, and this may surprise your dumb ass, that kind of shit actually fits in the context of Sonic, y'know, since the games are about speed and momentum. It's not because they "baited" themselves into thinking it makes sense. That game as well as the previous games teach you all about how your speed and momentum affects everything, from simply getting through loops or activiating doors and shit with machines.

The fact that hours later you're still defending this shit is why games today are garbage. Because people as stupid as you are making them.

>>389704941
>jumping into message blocks on purpose

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>>389680570
>someone dislikes my favorite streamer

oh well time to shove this hook down my gullet and get really angry for no reason

>>389678197
This. If you had a bubble shield it was even easier.

>>389677892
I actually only learned to do that a few years, ago. as a kid I was always able to time jumps in order to get it down.

>>389677892

and the tails bot can do that stupid jump so you are left thinking that's the way you should do it

>>389705314
>you're stupid because you didn't get lost in a game with 5 buttons trying to do the same thing over and over when it wasn't working

>>389705817
>can't read
dumb nigger

>>389704391
>>389704841
Why don't you guys just explain how the barrel is moving when you hold up and down then. Is Sonic doing it? Is he secretly doing something to control it while he's standing still rotating? The new argument I see here to explain away the fact that Sonic isn't moving is that you're literally controlling the barrel on this part. Can you explain how you're literally controlling the barrel? Why this 1 random non-living object in the game can move on its own while Sonic sits around and lets it control itself? Why not just admit that this is retarded. By saying "lol it's just a videogame so why not have this one random object controllable" you're basically admitting that it's completely random and nonsensical. Barrel apologists are the fucking worst.

>>389705817
The fact that you figured out the solution by mashing all the buttons on the controller doesn't make it a good room you fucking retard.

>>389705314
not him, but you're beyond mad. If it took you more than 30 seconds to figure it out then it's only your own fault.
But by the time you've jumped like 5 times, you've already figured out the maximum height you can get out of jumping on the barrel. The human thing to do would be to try another approach, not to spend another 9 minutes doing something you've already realized doesn't work.
Just because you read on the game box that sonic is about speed and momentum doesn't mean it applies to everything. Use your brain faggot.

>>389706171
It's not something that uses your brain. It's just unintuitive. It's like playing a game and trying to figure out how to jump only to realize that it's by pressing down.

>>389705267
You can also take an alternate path to the left if you reach the first platform (by jumping)

>>389705907
Cause it doesn't really matter and you're getting extremely butthurt about a minor facet of a game's overall controls. How does control shift to the next piece in Tetris? Do they die when they hit the bottom? Are they alive in the first place?
>>389705982
But I figured out the solution by noticing that jumping to land back on it was awkward and pressing up and down to coincide with something moving up and down did in fact cause it moving up and down to move further up and down. Like someone that can put two and two together and not somehow go back to two over and over again.
>>389706171
It's funny because you're still actually increasing the momentum when you use the buttons anyway, so it fits in just fine.

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>>389706282
or like going up and down by pressing up and down

Is defending the casino night barrel the newest spicy maymay? These threads have been happening every time I come on here for the past few days, with clearly the same asshole posting about 5 buttons. Or is this a newer, more dangerous form of autism?

>jump on barrel
>hit every direction
>it's already moving up and down due to you jumping on it

Even after you know about it, it's still shit design. The game's about going fast then you just have to sit on some barrel

Reminder that the sega help hotline back in the day had a section just for this spot.

Can't you actually get past that barrel with perfect jump timing?

>>389677892
Vinny what are you doing here

>>389706508
You're missing the point you idiot. The point is that immediately thinking you can control the barrel when you walk in the room is retarded. You've been jumping on these things the entire zone and the momentum from jumping on them is always bringing you to a higher platform. You only come to the real solution ofr this barrel after realizing that the logical solution doesn't work. No one would go in that room and immediately assume you can control it. That's fucking retarded. Sonic himself doesn't move or change his action at all when you're controlling it. The only reason you can control this one particular non-living object in the game according to you idiots is "idk well it's a videogame so you're stupid if you didn't think that". No anon, we all figured out the solution eventually. The solution is just fucking dumb.

>>389706761
The barrel lasts a few seconds when done properly, it moves fast itself and you can even avoid them if you're taking the faster routes.

>>389706650
>5 buttons everytim!!
Were you expecting the controller to get more buttons over time?
Anyone could point out that it's retarded to not try the few options you have. It doesn't have to be the same guy.

>>389707215
The infamous one is what all paths lead into though, right?

>>389707156
>You've been jumping on these things the entire zone
And you snapped to them every single time. For a reason. A reason you chose to ignore.

>>389677892
1. You can get past the barrel by jumping on it if your timing is good
2. There are a grand total of 7 buttons on the sega controller not counting start

you have to be retarded not figure this out

>>389707302
The fact that "There's only 5 buttons so if you hit all the buttons then eventually you'll get it" is the defense to this room instead of any logical reason why you should be hitting the buttons is the problem here. The problem with the barrel is everyone tries the thing that makes sense and the thing that makes sense almost looks like it might work, especially when you're playing as both Sonic & Tails. But the real solution is that you actually don't do anything and you just hold a button that you might figure out if you start trying out random things to make it move.

>>389682784
I've seen this exact post on /vr/. You're mentally ill for doing this over and over again. No wonder you couldn't figure out how to get past the barrel.

>>389706650
I've only ever seen two threads, this one included. Did some famous eceleb play the game recently and suck at it or something? It can't only be the Cuphead shit or Mania because that's not much of a connection.
>>389707302
Actually those specific mentions of "5 buttons" pretty much are mostly me, because it can't be emphasized enough to be honest.
>>389707493
I believe so, but my memory is rusty on that front. That one is one you have to push downwards to proceed and therefore gain nothing from the extra jump height.

>>389707590
And you're ignoring the fact that every single other fucking barrel in the zone doesn't require you to do this and you'll make it past all of them by jumping on them. Which makes it even less conspicuous that you've been snapping to all of them because it didn't even mean anything in any of those cases.

>>389707779
>name calling but no reply to the content
lel, it's not like the post is suddenly invalid because it's a repost
seriously, the barrel responds much more actively to jumping than to up/down input
jumping makes it move a bunch, while up/down take a few goes before you really notice it

mind you, I got past the barrel, but still think it's poor design (heck, even if it was obvious, it's still a slow, somewhat uninteresting gimmick that doesn't add much to the stage, like the pulleys in Mushroom Hill)

>>389707156
Which room? The room that traps you in with the barrel being the only thing you can go onto, which starts moving when you walk onto it? Surely it's only natural to think something is up when you step on it.
>You've been jumping on these things the entire zone and the momentum from jumping on them is always bringing you to a higher platform
Nope, that's one aspect of them that YOU chose to use, while disregarding any other possibility of more potential uses. Just because the fire shield gives you an air dash doesn't mean it can't also protect you from fire-based damage.
>Sonic himself doesn't move or change
Yes he does. Also there are many other objects in the game as we've said before.
>>389707741
Nah, the point of stressing the 5 buttons is that you have very few options to choose from in regards to how you can deal with the barrel. Left and right don't work when you stand on it, jump takes you off of it while landing on it is not enough to push it down, which leaves you with up and down. Jumping and landing on it doesn't "almost" look like it works, and almost is as good as nothing when height is concerned.

>>389677892
Read the instructions?

>>389708316
Every single word of this and the /vr/ post has been refuted several times over in this thread alone.

>>389678161
What you idiots are missing is that even if you think to press up and down it doesn't really do anything unless you do it multiple times.

>>389708351
>Which room? The room that traps you in with the barrel being the only thing you can go onto, which starts moving when you walk onto it? Surely it's only natural to think something is up when you step on it.
Yeah it's natural to think you jump on it like you do most platforms you do in the game and like you've probably done to most barrels at that point in the game.
>Nope, that's one aspect of them that YOU chose to use, while disregarding any other possibility of more potential uses.
Half the barrels move by themselves and you can't even control them you fucking idiot. Of course most people won't start trying out buttons on obstacles that can be overcome by jumping on them, especially when you can't even control half of them in the first place.
>Yes he does. Also there are many other objects in the game as we've said before.
What are you talking about? Sonic doesn't do anything when you're moving up and down on the barrel. He stands motionless and spins in a circle whether you're standing still or whether you're moving the barrel up and down. And name 3 fucking non-living object in the game that you control. NOT being controlled by Sonic

>>389707880
So it's optional to use it to get ring boxes etc, but it doesn't hinder sensible human thinking when you reach barrel where it's required.
Be it just having no clue or being "taught wrong" by convincing yourself something. If one approach doesn't work, you try another one. You can't "get stuck" if you actually think.

I can see how it could be a bit confusing for some the first 16 seconds or so, but I don't think they should have dumbed down the barrel physics over something like that.

>>389677892
hello dean takahashi

I swear the people who defend this shit either never played the game, or have literal autism.

No normal person would assume to try pushing up and down in a 2D Sonic game.

>>389708545
It's that time again.
>>389684149
A clear increase from the first to the second height.

>MUH 5 BUTTONS
You realize that the entire point of video games is being able to do incredibly complicated things with variations of a small number of buttons, right? 5 buttons that don't just have a simple 'on' or 'off' state, but that vary in function depending on what buttons they're used in combination with, when they're used, whether they're tapped briefly once, tapped repeatedly, or held down? And the fucking autist obsessed with defending these barrels seriously can't understand why with all of the possibilities, that kids playing a kid's game got pissed when they realized that the solution to an obstacle in a platforming game was pressing holding two of these buttons down for long intervals, and alternating between them? With no obvious cues or build up to the random button pressing puzzle at all?