Why does /v/ hate the best isometric RPG since the infinity

If PoE is the best isometric RtwP RPGs have to offer, then I'm glad they died.

>>389662503
I like it.
Is this a bait thread?

>>389662503

>Wall of text for every single interaction

Gee, I wonder why

>>389662503
>>389662568
>>389662696
I haven't played the game yet but I've been curious about it till people kept complaining about how bad it was on /v/ decided not to get it then. Now that I think about it never actually read a good reason why it was bad or good. Just people yelling one of the other. /v/ also thinks Witcher 3 was bad which is one of my favorite game so yea. Someone sell me either story.

>inb4 /v/s a single person
>he doesn't know what majority opinion is whether its perception or other wise

Because it didn't live up to the hype and failed to capture what people enjoyed about infinity engine games while keeping the worst parts and adding on their own terrible design decisions.

Because it's popular on reddit

Because majority of /v/ doesn't actually like crpgs

Because they changed one line so they must be sjw now

>>389662503
Magic system sucks dongs

I wanted D&D magic. not some weird ass system that tries to be the opposite of D&D spells, y'know the kind that has balance.

I made a super OP wizard in NWN hordes of the underdark. I solo'd from lvl 1, save scummed to hell and back for the early lvls when wizards are absolut shit, and then was rewarded with a Elminster Tier uber archwizard that would walk into the room, make an utterance and every enemy would collapse and explode.

I don't enjoy combat systems that don't let you become uber. I want to make fucking gods. Not some lame ass pansy 'hero' were every mob ever has better stats then he could ever attain.

>>389664089
i liked the story at first but, eventually it got too long winded. Reaching into old souls and reading their stories gets tiresome at some point, because they add nothing to the actual story. It would be like trying to read a forgotten realms novel, but everytime you heard a new noun you would wiki it and get hooked on wiki'ing the wiki until you wake up 3 days later naked in a cold sweat still on page 1.

>>389664015
>copy pasta in every POE thread
gee i wonder why

>>389664758
>hurr I'm a casual
thanks for coming out anon

>>389664145
What did people enjoy about infinity engine games?

I started playing a couple of months ago with no context other than enjoying BG1 and I’m loving it. Yeah some of the mechanics are unconventional but it’s honestly really enjoyable. I can’t imagine why /v/ doesn’t like it other than because other people do.

>>389662503
RTwP sucks. The writing sucks.

It sucks.

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Reposting from a cRPG thread we just had:

Anybody know of good class guides for Pillars? A lot of the ones I've found haven't been updated past version ~2.0. I haven't played the game yet and I don't want to fuck up my first character.

>>389665210
no one quite knows

>>389665425
Check the official forum, they have a bunch of build for the latest version. That said you'd have to try pretty hard to fuck your character up and even if you do you can respec at inns

>>389662503
To be honest, after Tyranny and Torment PoE looks pretty close to a masterpiece.
The only thing I disliked was the combat system.

>>389662503
Do you recommend this to someone who thinks Divinity Original Sin is really boring?

>>389662503
>since the infinity engine games?
It's better than any of the IE games.

Should I use Durgan Steel on weapons or armour?

>>389665425
There is that russian guy who has done builds in youtube for white march 2, just search for them.
I think he made one good 2.0 guide in the steam forum, it's shame he won't update it.

>>389665940
>Have to watch a bunch of 30 minutes long video instead of reading for 5 minutes
I hate YouTube

>>389665782
>That said you'd have to try pretty hard to fuck your character up and even if you do you can respec at inns
Oh wow, that's great. I'm not so worried now. I wasn't sure if PoE had absolutely useless stats/skills/what-have-you like older cRPGs.

>>389665940
I found NCGS' stuff but since I haven't played yet I wasn't sure what would or wouldn't be outdated.

>>389665163

>Most popular complaint
> = copy pasta

Wew lad

The story line totally failed to capture my interest. Couldn't find motivation to find out why I should care about the character seing ghost or whatever that was. The setting being the most generic and blandest possible fantasy world certainly didn't help.

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>>389662503
Because it has a bland story and boring encounter design. BG1 is a masterpiece compared to it, and that game has you walking around forests for 80% of it.

>>389666258
>I wasn't sure if PoE had absolutely useless stats/skills/what-have-you like older cRPGs.
It doesn't, there's plenty of meh stuff but nothing completely useless

Can I roll a team of 4 wizards.

If no, what aspect of this game makes it better than a 2010 final fantasy flash game?

>>389666791
Yes

>>389662503
Too much bland going. Here's a few pointers:

>bland setting
>insufferable writing
>tries to be balanced, ends up boring
>josh "no fun allowed" sawyer
>forgettable music
>bland artwork
>clusterfuck combat
>bland plot
>boring characters
>floaty graphics
>suffers from "+0.5% to damage"-itis

A truly forgettable game through and through.

infinity engine games were never good

bg1 was just ok, thats it. Arcanum and NWN1 were superior

>>389666954
I don't agree with everything

Setting is amazing, though the writing is uneven in quality
I love the artwork
I have no problem with the combat
There are plenty of good characters

As for the balance, maybe it's overdone a bit. There are still plenty of op as fuck builds, like self buffing melee wizard and ranged ciphers.

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>>389667280
>tfw thunder druid

>>389667280
Sorry I meant unbalanced AND fun, whereas where PoE is unbalanced it's not fun

>>389666876

Is the magic able to raise barriers, alter the landscape, and make use of various tatics?

>>389662503
>pillars
>good

tyranny is three times better than poe, and i dont even like this genre of game

>>389666459

this. shite story, garbage encounters, all trash mobs. Bad characters. All in all, its trash compared to BG2. Maybe White March is better, but I don't feel like dropping shekels for a shit game.

>>389667280
>Setting is amazing
I failed to see its brilliance. What makes you think that, what made it good?

i'm tired of isometic. get with the fucking times. they pick the worst aspects of old rpgs to bring back. give us the same old school rpg mechanics with a new coat of paint. fuck you, obshitian

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Also it didn't have good item descriptions.

Pic related.

>>389667720
>this
>good

>>389667792
Read the post again.

>>389662568
fpbp

>>389667717
B-but dynamic story telling and multiple ways to solve quests is toooo haaaard

>>389667717
>muh turn based
there are fucking hundreds of turn based games to play these days, go play them you shitter

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>>389662503
gee I sure hope that fucking ship in 2 have fucking events and things to do because the stronghold sure as fuck didn't have any until much fucking later patches and was disappointing still
they really supported this game well with patches and improvements, it feels like a different, better game than the first couple of builds

The encounter design is shit
The maps are filled with the same garbage mobs over and over again AND YET you often don't earn anything, not even xp after the journal entry is complete
this brilliant idea really deserves an award

>>389667861
Were the pic an example of bad item description?

>>389662503
Writing sucks and where it doesn't suck it's undermined by bad mechanics. It might as be a walking sim in quests at times with how little you can affect the story. The combat is the worst I've seen in a CRPG for any class, with only some classes being slightly less painful to play like Cipher. The magic is the worst I've seen in a DnD rip off game which is really saying something because they had a lot to rip off from and didn't. I know what you might be thinking "More spells isn't better" That can be true. Look at games like Dark Messiah that focused on fewer spells to give them more depth. Well POE isn't Dark Messiah, they didn't bother giving anything extra attention in this game. Quests that seem initially interesting until you realize it's a point A to point B conversation you can't fail. Dark sacrifices of a party member for power for "You gained 5% dodge!" Fuck you that shit is atrocious. I would rather a worse mechanical reward that impacted the story more. You could have given me some flashy innate spell that wasn't that useful but was fun to use like Slayer or something. You could have had every party member turn on you and you have to complete the game solo, and at the end the pit speaks to you saying "See, being alone forced you to grow powerful."
Instead they treated it like they treated the entire game at large. A by the numbers CRPG with no heart, bad mechanics, mostly bad writing, a forgettable setting.

>>389668070
>*Was

>>389668034
>The encounter design is shit
play the expansion

Just give me Arcanum HD so I can play it then fucking die

>>389667650
I really liked about the soul hijinks in general, and the world is interesting. I really would have liked more worldbuilding outside the companions though. I'm expecting much from Deadfire.

>>389668009
>>389668016
wat. i'm talking strictly about the isometic aesthetic. it's fucking garbage

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>>389662503
I can still hear the menu music.
Shit game but childhood nostalgia.

>>389668135
Stop with this meme idiot

>>389667650
>gods are great
>world has lots of history: social, political, economic, technological
>it's 1000x better than forgotten realms
i mean what else do you want from a setting?

>>389668196
>isometic aesthetic
but the backgrounds in POE and deadfire look absolutely gorgeous. i've never seen someone's complaint be 'the isometric aesthetic'. what the fuck kind of aesthetic are you talking about? the fixed camera angle?

>>389667720
>>389667792
>>389667861
>>389668070
>>389668134
No. It's an example of an excellent description.

PoE on the other hand had nowhere near that level of quality.

>>389668359
>opinion
>having a lot of garbage doesn't make anything better
>not an argument

>>389668462
>complains about my point 'not being an argument'
>doesn't answer my question

>>389668441
It's overwritten garbage, if you like it you should love PoE

why do people have such strong opinions about poe here? I feel like a lot of non-rpg people must've played it, I don't see even close to the same amount of fucks given about any similar game

>>389668790
Because it's a piece of shit game and we are tired of seeing it shilled by idiots with no taste or idiots working for the devs.

>>389668359
It has a lot of stuff packed into it, but when you actually play the game is reeks of generic medieval fantasy. I want to look at things I encounter and find them visually and conceptually interesting and engaging. PoE fails to provide that thrill of discovery.

>>389668790
I think it's because it was the loudest "Return of the isometric rpg!" premiere, which made a lot of people have high hopes for it.

>there are anons when think modern rpgs are better than crpgs
>there are anons who think lazy floaty combat is better than turned based
>there are anons who think lore and npc interaction are secondary or tertiary aspects of rpgs
the state of this board

>>389668998
so there's not a lot of people who dislike it, but you're all just really mad for no reason you can't stop shitting on it whenever it's mentioned

>>389669537
>floaty
what does this mean

It was fucking boring and tedious. I quit halfway through after I fought that dragon at the bottom of the stronghold dungeon.

Might pick it up in the future and try the dlcs, but probably not. Game lacked charm and felt like it was made by creative brainlets. Had absolutely nothing intriguing about it, just the same old derivative shit. Probably felt like a miserable job to make the game, cause it definitely felt like a miserable job to play.

>>389669592
anything similar to skyrim's weightless and boring combat

>>389669787
I still am completely lost

>>389668790

Mediocrity is repulsive. Familiarity breeds contempt.

>>389670218
mediocre like your post?

>>389664089
My problem with it is that early on it tends to slap you in the face if you so much as take one step in the wrong direction which makes it somewhat difficult for me to get into. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the game should make every encounter easy or scale to the player level like Oblivion but when you throw in some fights that the player just isn't ready for in to early level dungeons it's just kind of dumb. Yeah I know Dark Souls did this with enemies like the black knight in the undead burg but with shit like that you can actually see it coming and the option to run away is there. With PoE it's like "oops, I took one step in the wrong direction and suddenly the fog of war cleared around these giant beatles that I can barely even scratch!"

>>389670291
compared to your reply its above average

>>389670328
You sound like a casual honestly

No combat xp was a mistake.

>>389669976
Not him but I think I understand what he's getting at. The combat in PoE doesn't feel like there's a whole lot of feedback in terms of oomph to it, especially compared to Tyranny or maybe Divinity:OS where it feels a lot more meaty and blows have a lot more impact

>>389670578
but it doesn't have no combat xp

>>389670610
are you talking about sound effects or what? pretend you're talking to a game developer

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>>389669976
Not that guy, but my interpretation of floaty is lack of visual feedback of the used abilities, combined with big hp pools and small damage values relative to them. This rids the combat of excitement when attacking and removes reward in form of making the player feel powerful.

>>389670791
But ability being to flashy is one of the most common complain

>>389665930
Seconded
I tried Divinity and got bored/irritated with the immature reddit story, want a new RPG to play.

How's Tyranny? I don't have high standards.

>>389665930

they're both boring as fuck stories. But I think Divinity has better combat, so you'll get more mileage out of it in the long run.

>>389671213
Pirate and give it a try
Dropped Divinity but managed to complete PoE

>>389665930

I dropped the first one something like 20 hours in, but so far the early access for the sequel doesn't give that vibe.
This time the story is more about handful of people acting out of spite rather than you being metaphysics jesus.

>>389670926
Doesn't have to be a matter of being flashy. Compare a character swinging a sword in Divinity:OS to one swinging a sword in PoE. The animations, characters grunting as they swing, and meaty thunk of it hitting give the attack a sense of weight and power. In PoE it seems more like they're LARPERs swinging foam swords around

>>389670926
Glowing magical explosions and whimsical effects are not visual feedback. It's when the game takes the visual aspect of combat a step further than two figurines spewing particle effects at each other and make it seem like there is some weight behind blows. The "visual feedback" doesn't come from the effect of the ability itself, but rather from the target it's being used on.

>>389671269
I really enjoyed it, mainly because the setting was fresh and interesting in addition to an engaging placement of the player in it, which encouraged focusing on the roleplay aspect of the game. Combat was meh, but the storyline completely carried the game.

>>389671517
>>389671757
Ok, I agree then

>>389671269

Play Age of Decadence instead of you want a short reactive game with good replay value.
Tyranny is just bad in many aspects. There is no encounter design, it's basically three different enemy types you fight over and over again. Companions aren't interesting and don't even have story arcs with proper beginning middle and end.
Reactivity is pretty much limited to picking red guys, purple guys, saying fuck you to everyone or teaming with a local militia at the end of act 1.
If you really liked Pillars buy it on sale, but it honestly isn't worth 40 bucks.

>>389662503
Thats not age of empires

>>389665939
Pls respond

>>389668135
>play the expansion

You mean the expansion that gave you the copypasted fishman hordes? The expansion that had filled up every inch with the same ogre formation? The expansion that instead of creating a dungeon with memorable encounters obnoxiously reused the exact goddamn siren encounter dozens of times?

I'm afraid the brilliance of this encounter design is completely lost on me.

>>389668359
You do realize that Forgotten Realms has everything you have just listed, right?

>>389673197
no he's talking about the white march

>>389673197
S-shut up

>>389673449
But he just described the white march

>>389673751
it was not an accurate description

>>389662568
Pretty much this.
I uninstalled PoE as soon as i saw that putrid rotten diarrhea of a battle system and never looked back.
Also immediately dismissed all the other recent RPG's with that trash, which turned out to be a fucking lot of them.
What a fucking joke

>>389673894
True, I forgot to mention Galvino's mass produced constructs. My bad.

>>389673894
Nah it's pretty accurate

>>389674019
>I'd better remember to complain about that one level where you kill constructs for a whole 20 minutes

>>389674141
It's a good example of the piss poor encounter design the original anon complained about that the second anon claimed was fixed by the expansion. It wasn't. It was more of the same.

>>389664089
There are very legitimate reasons why the game isn't better than BG2, but most /v/ can say boils down to "cuck cuck cuck cuck cuck sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw cuck cuck cuck sjw sjw" and it gets pretty tiring.

I loved PoE and I'd rank it above BG1, but I think it had shit itemization, needed editing on the text, and most companions are meh at best, with 3 of them being extremely good. Other than that I think it's a pretty good game and certainly better than any other cRPG of the 2014-2015 wave.

>>389662503
because it was made with crowdfunding

>>389673197
>filled up every inch with the same ogre formation
what
there's like, 2 ogre encounters in the entire 20 hours long expansion

>>389674528
what's piss poor about it though

>guy who makes constructs has constructs in his house

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Great taste, OP.

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>already knew about the tranny joke controversy
>fall for shilling anyway
>start game
>default character is a black female

Immediately uninstalled and refunded

>>389674740
objectively correct list
However I'd say the "great tier" is a 8-7/10 at best imo.

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>>389674874
Triggered

>>389674686
Two big areas, in the village and in/around the cave. The problem is not that they were overused, not like Tyranny did it, but that it had one small group formation with maybe one or two very minor variation, and then copypasted it all over the map to make a big encounter out of it. It's the same problem the base game had. No one can say the bestiary wasn't big, but there was no intelligent design behind its use.

>>389674740
Grimrock and Grimwah are dungeon crawlers you sperg

>>389674740

honestly, everything in this list is shit tier except tyranny and decadence

>>389675027
There's one with 3 ogres as soon as you enter the DLC village for the first time, and there's those 3~4 outside the cave. I don't remember if the ones inside the cave are hostile. Rest of the outside of the village is wolves and some humanoids who ambush the camp.

>>389674874
It's randomized ya dweeb

>>389675207
There were way more than that, unless they drastically trimmed their numbers in a post-WM2 patch.

>>389675418
lol
White March part 1 (one with ogres) was Patch 2.0. In Patch 3.0 (White March part 2) they went back and revised every single encounter in the game (base game too) and reworked them.

They probably did it for the 1st part of White March too. I played with 3.0 patch and those were the ogres I saw.

>>389674730
Because it's exactly what >>389668034 complained about. Meaningless copypaste for the sake of padding.

The problem with PoE is that it got major reworks in patch 3.0 to the extent that when /v/ argues about it they're arguing about different versions of the game and will accuse each other of lying without realizing that things changed.

>>389675574
it's how every game works. I don't know why you're heaping so much shit on pillars for this stuff

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Replaying BG2 and doing a triple multiclass solo run is funnier than all 80 hours i've wasted in PoE simply because the game doesn't try to restrict me at every turn into its own autistic vision of "balance" which still manages to be unbalanced as fuck, just in a really boring way. It feels so good when stats are actually meaningful, hard counters actually exist and there's a shitload of ways to approach every encounter.

I won't even touch the problems of PoE's setting and story, what a hollowborn abomination.

>>389676016
>stats are actually meaningful
Lol

>>389675570
I had both parts of WM installed when I finally played it, so if you are correct it should have been with the 3.0 patch. It was on PotD with level scaling, if it makes any difference. Beyond that I don't know.

>>389676016
>D&D 2e
>stats are meaningful

>hard counters actually exist
they do as well in PoE since 3.0, maybe 2.0, priests grant immunities

>there's a shitload of ways to approach every encounter
what, no there aren't

>>389676147
A single stat point in BG can be a difference between a mediocre and good build.
A single stat point in PoE is uuuhhh, 3% damage increase?

>>389676162
>It was on PotD with level scaling
well PotD deliberately increases the amount of monsters on the map by a significant number as well as their stats, so that may be why you saw so many.
I played on hard so I didn't really see the problem.

>>389662503
It's a good game but it's like the didn't learn anything despite BG2 being 15 years ago

>>389676246
>they do as well in PoE since 3.0
Oh, so they patched this trash when nobody actually cares about it anymore. Good riddance, glad they admitted their awful resistance system was a complete garbage.
>there aren't
Yes there are simply because engagements don't exist, you can pre-cast summons, there's a shitload of magic stats that can actually turn the encounter around instead of giving the enemy 10% debuff for 15 seconds and level design allows multiple ways to ambush your foes and scout for future encounters.
Everything about encounter design in PoE, meanwhile, is a hot garbage.

>>389676376
What's the difference between 8 Strenght and 13 in combat?

>>389676637
yeah m8 why did they bother patching FNV? No one cares about it after launch lol, should have just left it a buggy piece of shit

>it's an engagement fag
oh, nevermind, it's explained
go play starcraft faggot.

>>389675980
Not really, even among the IE games only ToB comes close to this level of padding. And ToB gets just as much shit for it as PoE.

>>389676376
unless it's wisdom intelligence or charisma, because these stats do nothing

>it's more fun if half the stats are pointless

>>389676873
>inb4 wisdom increase saving throws

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>>389676727
>yeah m8 why did they bother patching FNV?
Unpatched FNV was already good, just buggy.
PoE is sad history of autistic developer trying to find a mythical "balance", fucking up people mid-playthrough and railroading you into his own vision of playing this game right, and if it took him more than a year to actually fix something as awful as lack of hard counters, i pity the people who actually liked this massive clusterfuck of a game.
>oh, nevermind
It's adorable how quickly you gave up. Well, can't really blame you, engagements are an awful concept. Almost as awful as PoE's encounter design in general.

>>389676785
how many copypasted yuan-ti mage + 2 salamander spawns are there (typically completely out of place lol) in SOA

>>389677158
Except 3.0 is much better that 1.0 in every way.

>>389677371
If the game needs a 3.0 version to approach a "playable" state it's not a game, it's a pile of shit.

>>389677313
don't forget about the copy paste kobold groups, or the copy paste bandits and ogres in random encounters, or the copy paste mindflayer/umbra beetle groups, or...

>>389677158
I gave up because I'm tired of anti-engagement fags crying about it for 2 years straight.
There's literally nothing wrong with engagement, fuck off retard. If you need to exploit the AI pathing to win a fight, then all I can say is git gud.
Engagement has been a thing since D&D3e

>>389677598
yeah, it's all coming back. that shit was all over the place, but nostalgiafags don't remember

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>>389662503
It was bretty good.

I didn't like the class balance at all since it was too old school for me, but it was immersive and had great writting.
Lot of people got triggered by the backer NPCs tho.

>>389677609
If there's such an amount of hate towards a shit mechanic, maybe you should actually understand that it's objectively awful. But don't worry anon, continue to suck Sawyer's cock, maybe he will fix it in 4.0 or maybe 5.0 version a few years later.

>>389677313
Many. This is a bad habit shared by the IE games in general, although not so much the IWDs. But if you pick up one of the SSI games like Dark Sun, the difference is like night and day. I can't speak for the current version of PoE, but at least it used to have more padding than either of the BGs if we go by sheer numbers.

Although BG1 had that one very nasty respawn bug which almost made me raqeuit and uninstall, but it's manageable if you know about it.

>>389677724
that's the power of nostalgia for you.

>>389677552
1.0 was playable. 3.0 is great. Nice goalpost moving, though.

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>make limited resources for resting
>but allow to just leave the dungeon at any time and rest in your keep or a tavern
?????????????????????

>>389677819
there isn't a huge amount of hate. Just like the "Bigger cuck than anthony burch" faggot who spammed the board daily with the same thread for 2 years straight and was recently spamming with the "Tyranny was yet another flop by Obshitdian", I wouldn't be surprised if the fags in these threads hating on engagement was just 1 or 2 autists too dedicated to hating a game they claim to have no interest in.

>>389677925
Oh yes, it was such a wonderfully playable game where the developer kept changing things while people were already playing, greatly devaluing their builds in some cases, and it even took him time to add a fucking respec option.
You guys are such autistic tools it's simply insane.

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>>389674740
>Dragonfall over Hong Kong

>>389677979
your time is a resource. did you think they would prevent you from resting in a tavern somehow?

>>389678054
Oh, now he tries to demonize his opponents. Typical for a fanboy.

>>389676016
>angry duck.jpg

>>389678110
>your time is a resource
Why is that, anon? I'm simply alt-tabbing to read some news then alt-tab back. The whole procedure takes less than a minute to complete, clearly a superior choice than slogging through the dungeon with low amount of casts.

>>389678168
>playing the victim
kek
and I'm far from a PoE fanboy, don't worry.

Is it a great game? I didn't think so, but it's definitely a good game compared to all the trashy ""RPGs"" that get crapped out lately.
My main complaint was the huge amount of trashmobs that got boring fast and the loading screens, but I enjoyed reading through the lore, talking to characters, etc. Not sure why it gets so much hate besides the fact reading is hard

>>389678284
I can see a huge ass "i suck Sawyer's cock" written all over your posts, anon. The very fact you defended engagements and care for some poor guy spamming the same shit all over again for two years shows how autistic are you.

>>389678389
I care because it shits up the board retard, and it's annoying. Just like the autist who spammed the exact same anti-Witcher 3 threads for 2 years and would shitpost in every other Witcher thread that showed up. It's annoying. That's it.

>>389678343
"Lately" we saw excellent RPGs like Underrail, the single best exploration-oriented RPG released in last ten years. Or Dragonfall, a tightly focused narrative-driven experience with minimal padding. Or AoD which actually gives you a huge amount of roles to play.
What PoE even brought to the table? It's simply hollow.

>>389678091
Yes, because you can improve something "playable", which is precisely what Obsidian did.

>I can see a huge ass "i suck Sawyer's cock" written all over your posts, anon
I don't feel like this is a good criticism of pillars

>The very fact you defended engagements
what's wrong with engagements

>shows how autistic are you
why are you here if you aren't autistic

>>389678554
Yet instead of simply filtering those threads you're crying about them like a little bitch because you can't stand it when people shit on something you like, especially if there's quite a few things to shit on it for.

>>389677979
>Oh no they didn't plan for autistic retard

>>389678615
Galvanizing a corpse and making it a working Frankenstein's monster is clearly not how i would describe something "initially playable and improved later".

>>389678682
why would I filter the threads? Despite the shitposting caused by faggots like you, there's some cool conversation that pops up once in a while.

But stay mad about engagement, shitter. Have a last (you).

>>389674740

Fuck you, Divinity OS belongs at the top. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.

It's an actual fucking RPG

>>389678852
What a vivid metaphor, now you surely won the argument.

>>389678905
>x is not roleplaying
massive autism

>>389678905
You're arguing with a bunch of storyfags and generation z faggots. Get ready for "B-BUT DIVOS HAS A SHIT STORY" replies.

>>389677835
>>389677313
>>389677598
>>389677724
A big difference between PoE and old infinity engines is that way they deal with trash mobs.
In IE games are there to give the player something to do, give experience, give a sense of progression and making the player deal with resource management (failing this last point).
In PoE instead they are designed like the important encounters, which means it take forever to deal with them, while also making the actual crucial encounters feel like everything else you fought so far.
IE's trash mobs are forgettable, PoE's ones are annoying. Big difference.

>>389678615
I haven't played Pillars since 1.0, I played for about 15ish hours and got really turned off by the repetitive combat.

Not dejecting your point, but could you tell me what 3.0 has improved? I'd like to give it a second shot if it's much better now.

>>389678997
I love POE and Shadrowrun too. Sue me.

>>389678653
>what's wrong with engagements
It's harder to kite the braindead AI

>>389679015
The story was absolutely fine especially in the rewritten Enhanced Edition.

>>389679086
>lol I kite everything
shitty gameplay

>>389679039
switch to easy mode

>>389678879
>cool conversation
You mean fanboys sucking each other's cocks, clearly. Well, sorry to disappoint anon, that's not what the actual discussion is. We have something clearly hated by a good chunk of the community. Instead of actually accepting that the thing may not be as good as you think it is, you bitch and cry about "shitposting". Try Reddit, anon. It will probably suit you better and i'm pretty sure that PoE sub is a safe space created specifically for people like you.

>>389665930
God no. PoE is basically BG1 which means that you get a lot of exploring, fighting, looting and the story or even main antagonist doesn't really matter until you're at the very end - if you can find the motivation to even get that far.

>>389679015
weren't you in the last DivOS thread?
what the fuck are you doing here?

>>389665939
No

>>389679039
I thought POE's encounters were mostly fine except for the retarded ghosts that can teleport behind your tanks to your back line.

This wouldn't be so bad if this shit wasn't so common.

>>389678653
>what's wrong with engagements
It forces you into a shitty tank and spank, aggro-based gameplay instead of allowing you to freely reposition your party members during the battle which takes a solid chunk of tactical freedom from how you approach the encounters.
>b-but muh cheesing!
Are you implying that PoE's "find a choke point and put an immortal tank into it" is not a cheesing, anon? Because it is, and it's way more boring compared to what possible approaches to encounters BG gave to you.

>>389679060
Added immunities (dragons will no longer slip and fire bloats won't get damaged by fireballs), tightened up encounters, added a lot of Stronghold content.

>>389678575
like i said not great, good.

>>389679060
Basically nothing to fix the awful, repetitive combat. It's as boring as it was before.

>>389679672
>It forces you into a shitty tank and spank, aggro-based gameplay
yes it makes you commit to a position, rather than just kiting all over the place like a retard
>Are you implying that PoE's "find a choke point and put an immortal tank into it" is not a cheesing, anon?
I think the enemies in POE could've dealt with that kind of behaviour more cleverly

>there's a vancian casting, and usually with less casts per level than in BG
>except the value of each cast is way lower, buffs last 10-15 seconds and nukes are nowhere nearly as good
But why?

>>389679986
>yes it makes you commit to a position
And you can't see how horrible it is? It basically forces you into one approach to encounters and heavily punishes you for trying anything else.
>I think the enemies in POE could've dealt with that kind of behaviour more cleverly
Well, they can't. It's literally tank n spank: the game.

>>389665112
Oh man, I would say for any one else reading this, if you see a gold or yellow nameplate just don't click it, save you so much time, literally backer writing

>>389679809
Oh, that's good.
>>389679917
Darn.

Is the expansion any good?

>>389662503
Why do you care?

>>389680641
>Is the expansion any good?
It's the only good part of the game, with actual itemization and somehow interesting encounter design.
The question is whether or not it's worth slogging through the base game.

>>389680891
It's like someone noticed that PoE is a very divisive game around here and wants to fuel the hate between the two sides. I wonder who could that be.

>>389664089
Lore-wise, there's a metric shitton of info-dumping since they're trying to establish an all new setting created from scratch. I respect what they're trying to do, and I've come to like the setting, but initially it really is long winded without much payoff.

Mechanically though, the game is amazing. There are very few encounters where you are simply outstatted such that you can't overcome with smart positioning and use of debilitations. It really rewards you for understanding the mechanics of the game without just letting you blow the game wide open, a balance that's honestly pretty hard to find these days. Admittedly, the stat spread could use a little work (max int barbarians for example <_<). From a role-playing standpoint, I really like how many stat-check dialogue prompts are and how they're tied to still important combat stats. Being able to play melee and be relevant in conversations is fun. I also dug the dialogue trait system. As you pick more and more of certain kinds of responses, the game tracks it and then NPCs can add some flavor comments, like if you have a reputation of being really honest or blunt. Bonus points if you use the option that turns off the ability to see what dialogue options correspond to what trait.

>>389662503
1) the combat is shit
2) the world is not really that interesting
3) the party doesn't feel like it belongs to that world
4) the combst is shit and thus you don't care about skills/armor/weapons which at the same time makes everything less interesting
5) the story is not good
6) feminism in a medieval world
7) niggers in a medieval world

>>389680242
there's nothing horrible about it. you have to decide which stuff to engage, you have to do stuff to break engagement when your guys are in trouble, it's cool. with none of that, you barely make any decisions in a fight, it's just >oh look a melee guy, I run everyone away that he gets close to until I can drop another thing to immobilise him
>my melee guy is on low health I'll just run away and then he's perfectly fine after I've clicked away from the enemy because nothing can stay in range long enough to get a hit off
your post is meaningless buzzword: the complaint. tank and spank describes baldur pretty well too, it's just instead of engagement, enemies all attack your tank because they are too dumb to do anything but attack the first guy they see

>>389681208
this guy didn't play the game

>>389681208
It's not a medieval world.

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>>389681285
>if you disagree with me the you must've not played the game!

>>389681208
6 and 7 are arbitrary points because it's not earth you dipshit, you don't dictate the history of their equality

fuckwits like you are the worst thing about storytelling, you can't separate reality from fiction

>>389679180
>switch to easy mode
They are not hard, they are dull and time consuming.

>>389681628
they're time consuming for you because you aren't good enough, switch to easy mode

>>389681551
your criticism boils down to
>sjw sjw sjw sjw sjw
>niggersniggersniggersniggersniggersniggers
>this is this
you don't explain anything. I can say your fav game is shit too.

>>389681758
They are time consuming because bloated HP pools.

>>389662503
>real time with pause combat
>good
Pick one

>>389681797
5 of his 7 points have nothing to do with sjw.

>>389681971
I've not seen this complaint before, elaborate if you want

I still don't understand why people ask this, this is /v/, /v/ hates everything

>>389682124
Read the chain of posts.

>>389682007
yeah, they're just baseless criticism with nothing behind it
>the combat is shit
why?
>party doesn't feel like it belongs in the world
why? expand maybe? what does this even mean? they're all connected to the world and events
>combat is shit
repeated point
>story is not good
it's better than bg1, which while not being hard to achieve, is still something to consider.
>feminism
basically "sjw"
>niggers in a medieval world
"niggers"
as I said, retard tier criticism. You can name me any game and I can say it's shit, doesn't mean anything unless I actually bother explaining why I think that.

>>389674562
Underrail was released 2015, so, y'know. You're wrong.

>>389682234
I don't think it specifically mentioned enemies having too many hitpoints

>>389682283
Underrail had the exploration going for it. Everything else was shit and a tedium and shows the designer's inexperience.

>>389682245
Why would you give a shit about his opinion, are you one of the game's devs or just a buthurt nigger?

>>389682434
>Everything else was shit
no it wasn't

>>389674562
>POE
>better than ShadowRun DF/HK or AOD
Man fucking casual son of a bitch, I'll kill you

>>389682451
because I like arguing with people on the internet.
Why are you interested in this thread?

>>389681223
>you have to decide which stuff to engage
No, you don't. In almost every single situation encounters ends up with the same predictable mob spread you can't really change because it follows an atrocious MMO-like encounter design.
>you have to do stuff to break engagement when your guys are in trouble
You don't because enemies are stuck with your immortal tank who is shit for anything but tanking, and some kind of an offtank too.
>with none of that, you barely make any decisions in a fight
No, you freely move people around, allowing them to escape the range of mage AOEs in time, baiting them into the traps or doing other cool things.
> I run everyone away that he gets close to until I can drop another thing to immobilise him
Literally any other tactic you can use against the enemy is better than this. Congratulations, you're not only missing out the benefits of free combat movement but locking yourself into one of the least viable and most time-consuming strategies possible.
>tank and spank describes baldur pretty well too
Except it doesn't because enemies are not glued to a single tank they probably won't ever move away from because their AI is literally retarded.

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>>389681208
>unable to differentiate between fiction and real life

>>389682583
Because I like pissing niggers off anonymously on the internet.

>>389682694
that's a valid reason
might want to look for the fighting game threads or weeb shit threads though, the nigger population is probably a lot higher

>>389682373
In videogames, not just RPG, the more important gameplay wise an enemy is, the more complex, and the more HP that enemy will have.
Trash mob, on the other hand, tend to be simplistic and quick to dispatch, as they are the bread and butter of the game.
In PoE they designed every encounter as if it were an important one, meaning that instead of being something you can solve with a quick fireball, it will be a matter of minutes (while also being of little danger). This completely ruin the pacing of the game, making the whole ordeal boring busywork.

>no Chris Avellone
>Eric Fenstermaker, the only ok writer left
>remaning ones are feminist SJW's

Can't wait for Deadfire, lol

>>389682002
This. Either full turn based or full real time for me. None of this halfsies bullshit. I didn't even like Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape Torment even back then. BG2 was the original casualized rpg but games have become so damn simple now that even non-rpgs such as Witcher or Ass Effect are considered as gud rpgs now. The hillarious part is how Dark Souls gets labeled as an action game by these same assholes who think that Witcher & Mass Effect are better examples of rpgs mainly because those two follow the same model that Baldur's Gate 2 had, but with real time combat that wasn't gud enough for a proper action game.

>>389682134
The people who ask /v/ are generally stupid mindless assholes who honestly need a hivemind to think for them. Although the /v/irgin hivemind is usually right.

>>389682971
Fenstermaker is writing Eder, though.

>>389682971
Wasn't the fat guy from fallout involved in the kickstarter too? What happened to him?

>>389683090
He designed Stronghold and isn't working on Deadfire because he's working on a secret UE4 project with another Fallout creator, Leonard Boyarsky.

>>389682594
>No, you don't
ok, if you're retarded you can choose not to, and then be less effective and complain about it. I should've said you have the option to
>You don't because enemies are stuck with your immortal tank who is shit for anything but tanking, and some kind of an offtank too.
you were not forced to focus your entire fighter build on tanking, and your party could have multiple melee characters, and characters who can switch
>Congratulations
I'm not going to argue baldur's gate 1 combat with you, it's retarded
>Except it doesn't because enemies are not glued to a single tank they probably won't ever move away from because their AI is literally retarded.
that's exactly how they behave actually

many games have a system like engagements or attacks of opportunity. making it harder for shit to escape from melee is good, especially ranged shit, because it means you don't run a party of 6 slippery ranged fags, and you need to put a little thought into positioning and shit

This thread is a very amusing wasteland of shit

>>389677796
Underrated post

>>389683220
But why did he let POE be shit?

>>389683090
That faggot works on a new IP. More promising than Deadfire, of course.

>>389666381
Well it's surprising you tards haven't figured out that the game's not for you. I sit here day by day wondering to myself when someone will, once again, come and post about how this game's text length bothers them but question how it is that they make it into a thread and only spread their entitled opinion as a means of stating that a game is in poor taste for teaching the player that not all interactions must be condensed into a shortened period of brutal violence and some scenario's can be absolved with knowledge and credibility. It is a glimpse into the human soul that produces a quest rather than a rampaging lunatic murdering as they please and all I can truly understand from your post, is that you crave that aggressive drive towards others and feed off of negative energy and dark crystals. What I'd advise you to do is to go out into the Elder brook of the Black Helm and gather 4 Fragea berries. Along the way, you may encounter several Gizzum Goblins and I'd like you to slay at least 10 of them. With this, you may find a cure for your cynicism

>>389682932
I've seen a shitload of complaining about combat in pillars from various retards on /v/, and barely any of it has been about monster hp. I just don't feel like things take longer to die than in similar games. I can only imagine you're having a different experience because you are less good at the game and/or you're also complaining about wizard spellcasting. I see that shit all the time

>>389677796
Class balance isn't oldschool at all, Fighters are not useless for example.

>>389683373
Loaded question much? Anyway, his involvement ended up being minimal.

>>389683517
The combat is shit m8. Even the devs admitted it.

>>389683539
What so that fat fucking piece of shit was just scheeming money out of backers but ended in fucking mcdonalds instead of doing shit?
This is why I hate fat people.

>>389662568
this
it's not the best anything because it's a steaming pile of turd

>>389683517
People complain all the time about how boring the game and how shitty the combat are. I'm doing the same, except my criticism is a bit less superficial.

>>389682134
Easy way to get a discussion thread going. Asking why /v/ hates something is guaranteed way more replies than just a normal thread.

>>389683637
I think it was ok m8, as rtwp faggotry goes

>>389683905
most of the time the complaints are from retarded people though

>>389683984
Of corse, because only a retard would waste time playing this shit.

>>389684080
you are making the thread worse

>>389683405
we know literally nothing about the IP other than "it'll have dark humour like fallout", how can you say that you absolute autist?

>all these people complaining about RTwP
Just go play the other 900 turn based RPGs that were released in the last 3 years. Pillars was like the only one in a wave of dozens of RPGs that was actually RTwP. Just fuck off.

Why even bother making a game real time with pause? pure turn-based with grids means no retarded AI pathing and pure real-time means your not pausing every second to issue an action to one of your dudes because they all have different action timers.

>>389684183
Because the turd I just shat is better than Deadfire.

Main problems with PoE:

1, secondaries probably don't realize but the game has been patched heavily and however bad it still is right now it was way worse when people like me played it

2, the writing is just bad. The way dialogs are written between dumb repetitive descriptions of some mundane expressions or minor actions are annoying as fuck. The metaphysical part of the main theme didn't go anywhere. Characters feel dull because of the poor writing.

3, the combat is fundamentally flawed, combat is clunky. it improved on none of the issues of infinity engine games. classes feel generic.

4, most annoyingly it's being marketed as something that's completely different and above its league by a bunch of shills and fanboys.

>>389684296
because turn based is a lot more vulnerable to shit encounter design and pacing, which 99% of RPGs have.

>>389684183
>it'll have dark humour like fallout
Source?

>>389684296
They wanted the old Bioware audience.

>>389684350
mind taking some pics you buttblasted codexfag?

>>389662503
>that last patch just no nerf a weapon

classic josh

>>389684183
>Just go play the other 900 turn based RPGs that were released in the last 3 years.

not him, but there aren't a lot of turn based games being made that aren't trashy weeb garbage mate

>>389684183
I trust my men Tim Cain and Boyarsky.

>>389684402
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEewLWDpscA

somewhere here

>>389683984
>most of the time the complaints are from retarded people though
Nigga, don't bring an appeal to the majority if you are going to attack it one post later.

>>389684458
It already went down the toilet just like POE

>>389684523
yeah I trusted Boyarsky and the lead designer of Dawn of War too
then they released diablo 3

>>389683252
>less effective
It's not a matter of being more or less effective when there's one effective tactic to begin with.
>you were not forced to focus your entire fighter build on tanking
If you want an extremely effective tank in PoE, he will be focused on tanking and tanking only with barely any utility outside of it.
That's how this shit game works, unfortunately.
>that's exactly how they behave actually
No, they don't. They are free to choose their targets instead of being glued to one because their retarded AI dictates them than breaking engagements is bad.
>many games have a system like engagements or attacks of opportunity
Unfortunately the way PoE implemented it is absolute garbage.

>>389684654
>Listen to some old lying fuck talk for 1 hour about a game that he won't even deliver

>>389684756
Boyarsky famously wanted to make D3 more of a "real RPG" with branching paths and shit. Which is kind of a dumb idea for an ARPG but it shows his heart is in the right place.

>>389684183
>WAHHHHH DON'T CRITICIZE RTWP ITS WHAT I GREW UP WITH YOU MEANIES :(
pathetic.

>>389684964
>no argument
kek
great post

>>389684893
Hitler famously wanted to make Germany more of a "wealthy nation" with free economy and shit. Which is kind of a dumb idea for a Facist country but it shows his heart is in the right place.

so a conservative writer on Pillars of Eternity 2 got doxed by some feminists tumblrinas and he basically resigned the very next day and noped the fuck outta there

thoughts?

>>389685069
That's probably the least appropriate use of Godwin's Law I've seen, I am genuinely impressed actually.

>>389685128
Shouldn't have had resigned.

>>389684780
it's not one effective tactic
>If you want an extremely effective tank in PoE, he will be focused on tanking and tanking only with barely any utility outside of it.
you just complained about how your tank is invulnerable but can't do anything else. you chose for it to be like that
>No, they don't. They are free to choose their targets instead of being glued to one because their retarded AI dictates them than breaking engagements is bad.
I was talking about how enemies in baldur work. they just attack the first thing they see until they die, which will be your tank. they aren't glued to it by attacks or opportunity or engagement, they just like attacking your tank
>Unfortunately the way PoE implemented it is absolute garbage.
it sounded like you were trashing the entire concept and just want to play pillars of kiting. if you've changed your mind, feel free to explain what you'd like to see

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>>389684505
Battle Brothers was released recently and it' pretty decent imo. encounter design is nice since gobbos, undead, and bandits all have different equipment and tactics that almost forces you to mess around with weapons or formations so you don't get slaughtered. for example undead legions will shieldwall it up so I bring axes to cut down their shields, while noble houses will be heavily armored so I bring crossbows and hammers to punch through their armor.

>>389685128
So POE 1 was so shit and sjw that tumblr knows it exists and that they are making a sequel.
I don't even give a fuck at this point.

I enjoyed the fuck out of Pillars of Eternity. It's my favorite modern RPG. I liked it more than Underrail (Great game), the Shadowrun games (First one sucks, the other two are great), Divinity: Original Sin (Shit story, good combat) and Age of Decadence (Tedious)

>>389685128
Good luck to Obsidian with their feminist "fanbase"

>>389685332
>guaranteed replies

>>389683539
>Fighters are not useless for example.
Yea they're not useless, but you basically just set them up somewhere at the start of a fight and then the remaining 90% of the time you microed your casters.

>>389685270
I had completely forgotten to play that, thanks m8

>>389685541
>and then the remaining 90% of the time you took a nap
fixed that for you. That fire dragon with a bunch of minions fight was the only challenging fight in PoE, at least until I realized you could just run back a bit to the chokepoint and have your fighter take everything.

>>389685591
it's complete dung don't bother
just go play mount & blade

>>389685329
you really are a dedicated shitposter aren't you

>>389685490
?

>>389685541
unless your fighter is a berserker he's just going to get instantly cucked by hold person or stun or dominate or charm or one of the hundred other spells that completely negates his entire presence or turns him against you

>>389685128
>he basically resigned the very next day and noped the fuck outta there
Cowards deserve anything bad that happen to them.

>>389685541
Or you can build a knockdown fighter and knock people down.

>>389685719
>it's complete dung don't bother
Sawyer loved it, though!

>>389685769
¿

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>>389685591
it's definitely worth a pirate but it's not worth 30 dollars. the concept and execution is good and fun, but it just doesn't feel like theres enough content in a way. All the various enemies are good, but I just wish there were more of them. I would get it on sale for like 15-20 if it does, I got it in EA for 15 and I'm happy with it but the Devs are done with it and all they'll really support it with now is maybe a few bug fixes every few months.

>>389685719
how is battle brothers related to mount & blade

>>389686068
it's basically turn based mount & blade

>>389662503
/v/ hates PoE for one of two reasons
1) They are actually old enough to have played older isometric cRPGs when they released, and are incredibly blinded by nostalgia (see rpgcodex)
2) They are not old enough to have played older isometric cRPGs when they released, and thus hate the genre.

>>389686138
sounds like mount & blade is the one I should not bother with :)

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>>389662503
I like it. People complain about text dump but then I'd have to ask them why are they playing an RPG in the first place. I don't mind that you don't get XP from combat, but rather from discovering new places and quest. That's neat and actually prevents you from grinding enemies infinitely and actually gives you a reason to avoid conflict, since you gain nothing from it apart from loot. Also you get a shit ton of dialogue options based on your character's class, past, race and attributes.

But my big gripe with it is the combat itself. There is a lot of it, and that wouldn't be a problem if every combat wasn't designed around you fully coordinating your party with their half a dozen or so skills. While that sounds great and tactical, and it is, it gets really old when even the trashiest mob in the sewers requires you to pause at the beginning of every skirmish and coordinate 6 people individually. And after 40 or so hours of doing that over and over and over, it got me pretty fucking tired of it.

Do recommend it, but keep the repetitive combat in mind.

>>389686138
not really. M&B units are expendable while BB units are more precious and take longer to level up and train.

>>389686295
:(

>>389686245
Guess I belong on third.
3) People who played older isometric cRPGs years later and enjoyed the fuck out of them.

>pro-religion game
>/v/ hates it
/v/ is the biggest collection of fedora tippers on the internet

>>389686364
j/k :)
pirating battle brothers while installing m&b

>>389686520
don't forget to buy bannerlord!

>>389686245
that's simply wrong. anyone can go play bg2 right now, whichever version, and see how it's on another plane of existence compared to the trash that is poe. and that's not saying bg2 is anywhere close to a perfect game, just how bad poe is.

>>389686607
>ugly
>old
>bad balance, mages are OP
no thanks

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>>389666954
>floaty graphics
W-what?

>>389686607
no one ever said that poe was better than bg2 though
i've been in these threads since the game released and that's a statement that i haven't seen anyone make.

>>389685885
>until I realized you could just run back a bit to the chokepoint and have your fighter take everything.
Sort of true, magic would still fuck you up tho.

>he's just going to get instantly cucked by hold person or stun or dominate or charm or one of the hundred other spells
Well, these didn't feature in every fight. Also the AI was really dumb and often times this didn't matter.

>>389685885
Didn't knockdown only have 2 charges or smt?

>>389686607
another plane of existence where 90% of the attributes, classes and weapons are significantly worse than the other 10%, where all your level ups are just +3hp +1 thac0, and where every fight is
>contingency mantle
>contingency mirror image
>contingency stoneskin
>contingency invulnerable to magic weapons
>contingency invulnerable to normal weapons
>contingency shadow door
>time stop
>stand around for 20 seconds
>symbol of death
>symbol of stun
>symbol of-
>fuck, I only have 3 more breaches and 2 dispels

I really love baldur's gate, but if you can't see the flaws you're really retarded

>>389687150
forgot to quote this nigga
>>389685790

>>389687129
You missed that guy who used to spam those threads with a picture of steam reviews?

>intentionally designed against minmaxing resulting in build sameitis
>canned class roles that cant be nudged with clever character building and itemization
>itemization as boring as can be
>diminishing returns additionzlly cripples creativity with the games system
>obtuse health system solely for the sake of attempting to be unique
>choices dont matter
>monk has bonuses to fist but is better with weapon
>ai scripts make most fights feel exactly the same
>game systems added and never expanded upon (castle building???)
Its fucking shit, desu. They designed out any potential for fun in their insane quest for enforcing gameplay. Why cant i equip myself with nothing but fire resist and nuke myself while otherwise gimping myself to other attacks? Why have ai scripting enforce tank usage and eliminate the challenge of facing groups of enemies that have wildly diffeeent methods of attacking you, thus forcing you to come upwith novel ways of dealing with them instead of the same boring encounter every fucking battle? Why even bother letting me build my character when you lock away the ability to minmax and involve diminshing returns to defeat those nasty people who might come up with a clever or fun build the devs may not have considered?

But the graphics are nice, i guess that makes up for it.

>>389687150
>Didn't knockdown only have 2 charges or smt?
There's some way to get more and maximize the duration.

>>389687270
reread my statement, genius. I specifically mentioned bg2 is not perfect. but at least its combat is fun and sufficiently fast paced.
>>389687129
I was countering the idea that people are underrating poe due to nostalgia. It's just bad and to see how bad it is you need only to play an actual fun game of the same genre.

>>389687715
>>intentionally designed against minmaxing resulting in build sameitis
>>canned class roles that cant be nudged with clever character building and itemization
That's wrong, for examples wizards can be about aoes, control or melee.

>>389687960
>uses an example literally thrown in your face due to a couple spells
>and its still shit

>>389687889
>fast paced
this is just wizards having ridiculous aoe spells desu

>I specifically mentioned bg2 is not perfect
fair enough, but I feel like a lot of people here need to be reminded of its problems

>>389677609
The engagement system is terrible, because it makes combat almost entirely static. There are ways to mitigate disengage penalty, but it's not enough and it's always better to not do it. Meanwhile there is no justification for it being there. It accomplishes nothing.

>>389688894
It stops kiting and pisses kitefags off.

>>389688894
What does it accomplish in DivOS?

>>389688137
>>uses an example literally thrown in your face
It's not just spells, you need different stats and equipment.
>>and its still shit
Melee wizard is really strong, though.

>>389689806
Almost nobody cares that much about kiting. What we care about is that its shit at doing its job, and that itends up making every fight feel the same. J Sawyer for whatever reason waged a war on people being able to be clever in buildmaking, itemization, or in fights, and this is why engagement is part of the trifecta of what went so wrong in this game.

>>389690380
I enjoyed the game.

>>389685128
It's not doxxing if you post about how you hate muslims on your known rpgcodex account and a game you wrote describes refugees as subhuman savages. You dug your own grave, idiot.

>>389662503

RPG's not built on a system of rules usually suck for obvious reasons.

balancing everything is impossible, this is why everything not built on D&D rules is shit in a way that the rules are shit, you will always find something OP or unbalanced quite easily.

>>389690380
>its shit at doing its job
idk it seems to make kitefags angry enough still 2 years after release
I'd say it does a damn fine job

>>389690341
>weaker than rolling an aoe wizard or another frontliner
Even if it wasnt, its still a shit example. It was fully designed into the game to give the illusion of diversity. Its simply a canned build built into the wizard, not you actually being given a diverse set of items, a diverse set of spells, and a diverse way of meshing them together to create your own thing. You literally cant do this as you can in the infinity engine games because Sawyer saw this as opening up the possibility that people play outside of his game script. He posted about doing literally this ad nauseum getting angry at people who pointed out how shit all the decision making in this game was. This is why melee wizard isnt good enough of an example to show how this game has build diversity. Particularly when Sawyer himself set out to counter this as much as possible through diminishing returns and terrible itemization.

>>389690894
it's still a targeted campaign against a person to get them fired because they hold a different opinion
it's even more deplorable.

>>389689806
It's not about kiting at all. The problem is that it heavily limits your mobility. Can't you see how dynamic positioning can make the combat more interesting?
>>389689821
I haven't played much D:OS so I don't feel confident about commenting about it, but I don't remember feeling like my mobility is heavily restricted.
>>389690380
The IE Mod disables the engagement mechanic in case you didn't know about it. Probably not enough to make you like the game though I guess.

>>389664089

How stupid do you have to be to let the opinion of people on /v/ influence your gaming choices on any level?

There is absolutely nothing of value on this board worth believing unironically.

>>389691046
I can't imagine a game company would want to keep someone on staff who publicly insults a large group of potential customers (see also the Bioware guy who ranted about hating white people and "created his own indie studio" soon after).

No one likes a PR nightmare.

>>389690583
The game is not unenjoyable, but Sawyer opened up this can kf worms when he kept referencing IE games and kept saying PoE is the second coming. Almost nothing except the isometric gameplay andit being a semi turn based rpg resemble underneath the hood of IE games.

>>389691243
And honestly this guy was a full blown white power Nazi barely keeping it under wraps, not a "conservative". Fuck him.

>>389662503
I don't think /v/ hates Underrail.

>>389691243
Publicly saying you "hate white people" or straight people isn't a PR nightmare, it's the social norm.

See:
>Beamdog
>BioWare
>Naughty Dog

>>389690982
>>weaker than rolling an aoe wizard or another frontliner
It's arguably the strongest wizard build, though...
>>It was fully designed into the game to give the illusion of diversity.
Stop misusing the words. What you're looking for is "emergent behavior". A diversity intended by game designer is not "illusory" because it was intended by a game designer. That's retarded. Do you think other game designers just design spells randomly, anyway? What the fuck is even that argument. "The game has diverse builds but Sawyer thought of them before me so now they're tainted and fake!" What the hell, I don't even

>>389691351
how was he a nazi?

>>389690894
>doxxing
how to out yourself as a fucking redditor. why is that you redditors are utterly incapable of eve nblending in on an anonymous image board?

>>389691412
A LOreal diversity spokesperson (black tranny) was fired the other day for tweeting about the whites being the root of all evil.

Playing the victim card crying over how the big mean SJWs are taking over is pathetic, anon. Man the fuck up.

>>389691062
can't you see how not being committed makes melee undesirable, and therefore makes combat less interesting

>>389691525
Everyone uses reddit, and reddit is everywhere. Trust no one.

>>389691575
That's because L'Oreal is French.

Wait, no, French are all Arabs, except for the one who are Negroes...

*thinking*

>>389691498
The moustache was a dead giveaway.

>>389691351
He haven't said a single thing your average Republican wouldn't also say. Not even close to a nazi.

>>389691575
I'm not playing any card retard, I'm not even fucking white. It's a statement of fact that, in the videogame world, saying blatantly racist shit towards white people is the norm. It's not a PR nightmare at all. It's not controversy.

>>389691786
Never seen a pic of him, only his comments which didn't strike me as a nazi at all. And was pretty moderate for the shit you see there.

>>389667280
>I have no problem with the combat
This is completely different from your other points. You make it sound like you could not even defend it if you tried, but that you won't accept people criticizing it either.

>>389664758
Go back to skyrim kid

>>389691062
That still leaves very stale itemization and the harsh diminishing returns baked into char building. Though im not inherently against engagement, im just against every fight going down the same script. I found IWD thrilling when i played it after PoE because i was never sure what to expect from an upcoming fight. In PoE once i understood the proper way of fighting it always just devolved into the same set of conditions and responses. In IWD i had no idea. In some cases i was prepared due to creating my own balanced approach, but it was never always right. Id have to get smacked with a new encounter or an area that i hadnt been diligent enough in considering.

After i had played IWD i realized why people disliked engagement in PoE and its because the implementation of it boiled fighting down to a far more linear battle. I mean you could still screw up, but i never felt the tactical requirement of learning something new with every defeat.

>>389662503
Shithouse writing. We've covered this about 1000 times.

>>389685128

Was he writing the first game too? If he was, then fuck him anyway. He's probably a talentless hack piece of shit. PoE was hot garbage.

>>389692237
No he wasn't. He was a writer on Battle Brothers and a friend of Sawyer's.

>>389691946
I see. I'm not against an engagement system either, but it felt way too restrictive in PoE. I also didn't like the itemization.

>>389670708
It's a general impression, meaning it's a combination of factors. Sound and visual effects matter, but so does the level of effectiveness against an opponent. Hitting a basic enemy in D:OS with a standard storebought sword produced a very nice sound and they usually took a good amount of damage. This is something turn-based "action points" games do very well since you tend to kill enemies in 2-3 turns. If damage is balanced around having a full party rather than the actual biological integrity of enemies so you need a dozen hits and a constantly repeating regimen of spells, it's boring and the hits seem to have no weight. All time management/realtime games have this problem.

You could fix it with sound effects but it's a fundamental problem with visual design when you have a dozen characters attacking at once. RPGs tend to get really easy when you become powerful enough, but the general effectiveness and flashiness is what makes playing high-level wizards so fun. Having the game be too easy the whole way also takes away from the weight of your attacks but the obsession with balance eats away at it too. It's OK to be powerful.

>>389692757
wizard characters are usually gay as shit though

>Gray morality, bland choices
>No sense of growing stronger (look at druid level one spells holy fuck)
>Hordes of trash enemies
>Weak villain with no presence in the story
>Plot structure straight from Baldur's Gate
>The last chapter feels rushed

Practically enjoyed only the art design and a few songs from the soundtrack.

Are any of the classes actually fun to play now or what

>>389693101
Granted, but it applies to melee fighters too.

>>389693581
>Gray morality, bland choices
elaborate. if you seriously want a mass effect type thing then kys

>>389693581
>(look at druid level one spells holy fuck
What's wrong with them?

File: 1504659390733.png (356KB, 572x380px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 572x380px

>vancian casting

>>389693891
>wizard players in charge of resource management

>>389693867
The most evil thing you can do is often to not just help the grandma with her quest. The game doesn't allow you to be almost comically good or evil like DnD games.

>>389693886
You get eight fucking spells that are not just effective but they also sound good. Where's the sense of growing stronger there?
You should start weak and grow strong; not start strong and grow somewhat stronger.
Sadly the latter seems to be the theme of the game.

>Josh Sawyer, who read the Kickstarter backer forums nearly every day, would constantly read and absorb fan feedback, to the point where he scrapped an entire system they’d planned after seeing a backer’s compelling explanation for why it shouldn’t be in the game. (That system, item durability, would’ve been tedious and boring, Sawyer said.)

>Adam Brennecke and Josh Sawyer asked Feargus Urquhart for a meeting. Over lunch at the Cheesecake Factory, one of Urquhart’s favorite haunts, Brennecke and Sawyer explained that trying to release the game in November would be a disaster. The team needed more time. Yes, they were out of Kickstarter money and would now have to dip into Obsidian’s own funds, but for a game like Pillars of Eternity—Obsidian’s most important game to date—the extra investment felt necessary. Urquhart argued against it, but Brennecke and Sawyer were persistent. In their minds, the choice was already made.
“Feargus sat Josh and me down,” Brennecke said. “He said, ‘If this game does not come out in March, you guys are both gone after this project.’”
Recalling the pressure, Brennecke could only laugh. “OK, we’ll get it done.”

>>389694675
>The 2nd major city stretch goal came from Feargus.

>PoE's biggest problem was the story, and in mid-2013 it was way behind what everyone expected. This was mostly due to Eric Fenstermaker also being lead narrative designer on South Park and that game being a priority at the time.

>Obsidian's art department switched from
Softimage to Maya in 2012, and it took the artists a while to learn it. The switch to Maya and artists having no experience with isometric games meant prototypes took a long time to look right.

>Adam Brennecke had an initial plan for 120 maps in PoE, but Sawyer wanted 150 and refused to give in. This was one of the reasons why the game was behind schedule in 2014 and had to be delayed.

>The KS budget minus shipping and physical reward costs was around $4.5 million, and the delay cost $1.5 million of the studio's money.

>inane story
>most boring fight I've ever played
I'll stick to DOS. Story isnt good either but at least I'll have fun fighting