So, I'm currently playing through Final Fantasy 7 (I never

>>389618812
Shera isn't his wife you fucking IDIOT

>>389619682
>>reddit spacing
You know this meme is used by Reddit?

For some reason I feel like this thread is bait and probably copied from a reddit post.

There's nothing wrong with the post or anything, it's just that /v/ is such a hivemind of edgy teenagers that OP's lack of autism, misogyny and 4chan buzzwords makes it look suspect.

>>389618956
Its revealed in Dirge of Cerburus that they are.

>>389619682
>reddit spacing
fuck off Buckley, no one really wants to read a wall of text.

>>389618812
Nah. Cid's a prick at first

>>389618812
He's meant to be a crotchety old guy, it's endearing. The lovable asshole veteran kind of like a Vietnam vet or some shit. Stop being so fucking pozzed up with your Redditisim that the first conclusion you jump to is "muh wifebeating" "m-m-muh toxic masculinity"

>>389618812
seems like a realistic portrayal of a dysfunctional relationship

>>389620831
They get married after ff7s events. They're not even together before then

>>389621260
>implying Cid didnt hate fuck Shera every night

Reading the OP just reminds me how much they'll probably fuck up Cid's character in the remake.

>>389619682
There's no such thing as reddit spacing, faggot. Write however the fuck you want.

>>389619682

>old

I never thought about it much as a kid but when I got older I realized how hilarious it is that the game treats Cid like some old washed up one foot in the grave motherfucker when he's only 32. And it doesn't even seem like the FF7 world has a particularly low life expectancy or anything.

>>389618812
>Basically, most of the dialogue dialogue in the game is fucking mental.

That's due to godawful translation

>>389618812
Well no shit you hate him. You're obviously supposed to. But you know, character development.

Is FF7 Cid best Cid?

>>389623712
Yes. Also best Highwind

>>389623729
Ariana fags are going to rip your ass apart

FF7's story is pretty overrated. The game is a weird mess of side plots that feel like total distractions from the main plot.

>>389625183
I agree. I seen fans cry at the loss of that one horrible character and I was laughing my ass off. I will never understand the cult behind this boring ass FF game. This might be one of the worst out there. Red 7?....the dog was cool.

>>389626471
>>389625183
Most FF7 fans don't praise the game for its story, pretty much everyone acknowledges that it's a mess. However in terms of setting and world building it's pretty much unrivaled compared to other games in the series, the materia system was pretty fun and the dialogue and characters were pretty damn charming, even with all their flaws. Couple that with a fucking amazing soundtrack and you got one of the most memorable experiences in gaming, at least to most people.

Cid is the true hero of FF7 he gets shit done when the fag of the team goes and gets himself handicapped.

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>>389623837

They would be wrong to do so to him. Ricard is also better.

>>389623837
That singer they shilled in the mobile game?

>>389627064
What? Ariana Highwind from FFXV

>>389618812
>reddit spacing
holy kek what a cuck

>>389627120
Aranea

>>389627202
Yeah whatever. I didn't like anyone in the game besides Ardyn.

>>389626959
Who are you kidding? Yuffie is the real hero. The bitch is only 16 years old and has absolutely no personal stake in the conflict, but she dives right down into that fucking open wound on the planet to fight an insanely powerful alien invader and her husband's son, despite not even knowing if it would even make a bit of difference to Meteor. Yuffie has bigger balls than any other character in the game.

>>389627325
Yuffie is a dimwit with kleptomania

>>389627325
The Wutai side quest exists because of her she may not be the hero, but she is the villain

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>>389623712
yes

>>389623729
no

>>389627540
No, Vincent is the true villain. His complete lack of a personality, a spine, and a set of balls caused his girlfriend to become so fucking thirsty and desperate that she slept with Hojo of all people. Hojo. All of this could have been avoided if Vincent weren't a pathetic sack of shit.

>>389618812
its a good game

>>389627657
Who needs a spine when you can kill the super boss with 1 shot. always trust the guy with the gun and everything will be alright.

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>>389627657
>implying any woman could resist Hojo's mutant mega cock after the Jenova symbiosis

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>>389627924
How can other specimens even compete?

>>389627924
Hojo never actually injected cells into himself until late in FF7, unless one of the shitty spin-offs retconned that or something. So Vincent, the tall, dark, handsome special agent with a cool suit, awesome guns, and good pay was so pathetic he drove his girlfriend into the arms of a scrawny, pale, hunched, greasy-haired, fivehead scientist with thick glasses and no jenova megacock.

My favorite aspect of the FFVII script is how it adapts hero's journey tropes into an existential crisis. Cloud vs. Sephiroth is man vs. his own idealized image of himself, where Cloud is a SOLDIER wannabe in the image of the Sephiroth (because he wants to impress a girl with big tits) and Sephiroth is both literally and figuratively God

>>389628419
To elaborate, Sephirot[h] is the very peak of the Kabbalah and the earliest premise for a God in the western/Judaic sense

>>389618812
I'm pretty sure Cid eventually realizes how much of a jackass he was being and apologizes. Give it time, OP. Of course he's still kind of an asshole but not every character is meant to be perfect. Flaws and differences in their mindset are just another aspect to their story.

>>389628541
>people got more upset over Cid treating Shera like the slow cunt she is than Barret killing hundreds of innocent people in terrorist explosions
What a world

>>389628419
This. People don't understand how smart FF7's story really is. All of the things you mentioned tie in thematically to the themes of identity and internal struggle. Identity is merely a vessel for traversing the world, and Cloud has his sense of self shattered multiple times, so he has to discover his true self (with the help of Tifa, and I guess Aeris) in order to solve the ultimate conflict.

Drives me nuts when people say Midgar was the only good part of the game. They don't know shit.

I've been giving FF7 my first honest playthrough (a couple times before I've gotten to the dress part, this is the first time I've been past that), and even though it's been spoiled to hell and back to me I really like the story. Actually, even though I'm riddled with spoilers I feel like that makes the game even better, since I've never personally experienced the smaller moments that people usually don't mention. It's really fun to see Cloud's memories or Tifa's careful questioning of Could and go "OHHH I SEE". I've often been of the opinion that a spoiler can't truly ruin a good story and this one seems to be holding up. The biggest problem is that I just can't shake the thought of "I wonder how badly they'll bastardize this in the remake" whenever I get to a boss or story bit I like.

>>389618812
The game's translation is pretty awful.

>>389628901
Maternity/matriarchy is a huge theme, too. Sakiguchi's mother died irl when he was planning the game and it became an inspiration. The Sephiroth/Jenova relationship is an obvious example, and I maintain heavily that Aeris' relationship with Cloud was mostly maternal (she never stopped being in love with Zack and at most was confused because Cloud thought he literally WAS Zack for most of the game). But the dream cutscene before the Forest of the Ancients carries a very maternal vibe to it, a kind of, "You just stay in bed and I'll handle everything" message.

>>389626732
I don't think 7's world building is that amazing honestly. The plot is probably its strong point imo.

>>389629330
Yeah. That makes sense, I can see Aeris as more of the maternal figure that Cloud was seeking, but in a way that was him validating his weakness.

>>389629518
A lot of it is how disjointed and separate the main plot points between Cloud and Sephiroth are from the world building elements with the Shinra. I can sort of see why some people think the game gets weaker after Midgar, through that entire section the threat and the player's motivations are crystal clear, but then you do the motorcycle part and everyone just decides to follow Cloud following Sephiroth for unclear reasons.

>>389629941
In a flashback Cloud's mom tells him he should find an older woman to avoid temptations. Aeris is 22, one year older than Cloud.

>>389629974
You finish midgar, walk 50 steps get to kalm watch the flashback and immediately have motivation to track down sephiroth.

>>389630004
When you say temptation, I think it is more like she wanted him to stay out of trouble. And IIRC she said he should find someone that would take care of him, because Cloud is the sort of person that wont take care of himself, or will get himself into bad situations.

I suppose the interesting thing about Aeris in that way is that she was the maternal figure while also the one sucking Cloud into a bad situation. She was like a paradox. So all of that stuff, her dying, is all along the way to Cloud finding his true identity.

>>389628901
If you never play past Midgar you miss out on the most pointless cheeky gag in the game, Barret's hometown being infested with bombs that carry right arms.

The only thing mental is your fucking spacing.

>>389628901
OKe oké oke, midgar and juno naval base

>>389618812
OP is a normalfag.
KYS PLS

>>389629247
Getting spoiled on everything is great for stories with a ton of foreshadowing.

all heroes have flaws

>>389621024
No I don't think it is. We're supposed to think less of Cid for how he acts. He even realizes she was right all along during the huge materia thing and starts treating her differently.

>>389628419
It's essentially Heidegger's Being and Time philosophy condensed into anime shit.

>>389627198
Imagine being so afraid of being called reddit that anytime you see properly spaced text used for ease of reading and comprehension, you spout buzzwords.

>>389630174
>"There are so many temptations in the city... I'd feel so much better if you settled down and found a nice girl. Maybe someone older than you?"

Quoting from memory. It's definitely a paradox, because his mother is making a romantic recommendation towards a character that ultimately serves a maternal role as well. Cloud-Tifa-Aeris is the love triangle where Tifa is the clear choice for having roots in his childhood as well as, you know, not dying. But it adds an oedipal angle to his relationship with Aeris that serves as all the more obligation for him to uphold her memory by the end of the game.

Still unclear if Cloud's means of meeting her again as he alludes to in the ending is referring to some ritual suicide shit since she obviously died and he obviously went into the planet's actual veins to meet her soul

>>389621852

Hopefully he won't have the pube beard he had in Advent Children.

>>389618812
Its just bad writing, all japanese games have it

>>389630430
The most important thing is that it depends on stories not just puling shit out of their ass. From the moment Tifa first "innocently" asked cloud about something from their shared childhood I could see what she was actually trying to figure out. The way she so lightly pressures Cloud for details and shirks when he gets stressed says it all. It's easy to tell the difference between a story that decided the twist afterwards and a story that planned it from the beginning, and with all the flaws this one definitely had it's twist planned out as far as I can tell.

>>389618812
Do you want every single character in fiction to the upstanding definition of morality?

How boring would that be?

>>389621852
You guys are so ready to pull the trigger on the "it's different they ruined it" shit. The original had such a shitty translation that I'll be pissed if they don't go back to the original material and retranslate everything.

>>389630490
Evangelion had a huge cult following at the time, can you blame them?

>>389618812
you fuckwit I'm gonna spoil it for you now

He doesn't believe her that the ship isn't ready to take off because she's checked the air tank already several times.
They can't reschedule the launch because that's not how space travel works and they'd have to wait several months and Shinra are fags.
So in disk 2 once you go into space cid finally looks at the air tank and sees that yes he was wrong and Shera was right and finally forgives her after he realises she was trying to save his life rather than just get in the way by over worrying.

>>389630664
Can you cite what's wrong with the translation besides typos?

I'm not antagonizing, I've been genuinely curious what differences in the script there are for a long time now. Could never find anything online about it.

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>>389630221
oh for fucks sake I didn't notice this

>>389630985
Is there any point to left image besides scoring in-game brownie points for the dating part? I don't remember the treasure exactly but I don't recall it being all that great.

>>389630980
I don't speak japanese so I don't have detailed lists. But just go play through the game. Some conversations straight up don't make sense and a large portion of them sound like two ESLs talking to each other. The "This guy are sick" thing is indicative of a lot of the translation. Gungnir is translated as "Gunge lance" and there are many other issues.

I don't think they necessarily butchered original intentions too often, but it's just a pain to read through, I'm replaying the game right now and I had forgotten how bad it was.

>>389631147
>besides typos

a simple no would have sufficed

>>389628351
dunno why you're making it about Vincent when it's his gf's decision

>>389631118
phoenix downs

>>389630557
I think you are right about the maternal role and that there is some romantic recommendation which confuses Cloud, and yeah, the Oedipal angle where its like Cloud is trying to fit Aeris into the maternal role due to loneliness or weakness.

I think the paradox as to why Aeris is the incorrect choice is more complex but also more elegant than just her dying though. That would just make Tifa the choice by a meaningless default, but its not about that. Its because Aeris was a crutch to Cloud, keeping him from finding his true identity (all the complications with Cloud and Zack and stuff). So even though they had an affinity, it was not what he truly needed. Ironically its her death that does sort of rectify the paradox and push Cloud to finding himself (and Tifa)

>>389626732
That said, the blind defenders of the game are fucking hilarious. I once said "FF7 is shit" in one of Neverwinter's general chats and got blocked by four people on the spot.

>>389630985
It's on the same level as Shinra mansion's basement having an enemy that's one body with two heads, and the safe containing a boss that's split into different sides at the middle. And they even have names like Ying/Yang and Lost Number. And then the game does it again right before the crater by having a bossfight literally named Schizo, again with two heads. They really wanted to make it obvious.

>>389631202
Syntax isn't a typo. That's what I was indicating with the "two esl's having a conversation" thing. I'm not going to boot up the game and run around town to find an example. The conversations don't sound natural.

>>389631460
Yeah, I mean even the monsters in the game play on these ideas of identity, existentialism, and mental illness. I guess you could say the yin/yang or the Schizo boss symbolizes order and chaos between the truth and the lie. Thats why its crucial to find your true self, otherwise you wont be strong enough to defeat the dragon (Sephiroth)

>>389631472
Dude you know what I'm getting at. I'm looking for inconsistencies from the source material. The fact that the game was clearly translated by people with a tenuous grasp on English is, if anything, all the more evidence that Square of Japan translated it themselves (since Ted Woolsey got fired) and is MORE accurate to the substance of the source material, despite grammatical errors (read: typos. Stop being pedantic).

>>389631460
fun fact, a high pitched ringing of the ears is an irl indicator of an oncoming psychotic/manic episode. There's a high pitched ringing most times that Cloud suffers a breakdown in-game (the first one before planting the bomb in the first reactor comes to mind, complete with a text overlay depicting the voice in his head).

>>389631647
I meant it more literally, that Cloud has multiple sides/personalities that are being suppressed or locked away.

>>389631712
Yeah Square translated it themselves afaik. People who have a shitty grasp of a language will struggle to get their ideas across so it's hard to say how accurate it is. I also think that sounding natural is quite important. I don't like reading that stilted stiff dialogue that poor japanese translations contain.

You can read some of the issues that the dude who did the beacause translation found if you care.

What I want to know is whether the breakdown sequences are meant to depict Cloud confronting his own former self or the remnants of Zack that lie dormant in his memory. The optional flashback sequence shows them in two test tubes side-by-side; while it doesn't make a lot of sense in a strictly feasible science fiction setting, the imagery definitely lends credence to a sort of "supplanting one's consciousness for another" element. Was Cloud's identity crisis a product of the experiments done on him or the crumbling of his own ego? Was it both and the latter made him all the more prime of a candidate for the experiments? Did he imitate Zack with full cognizance and mislead his colleagues on purpose out of shame for how weak he truly was, and the guilt that he killed his personal hero with his own hands?

>>389627325
>Husbands son....
Yuffie's a KEK!?!?!?!

>>389631961
if Square translated it themselves then I'm not too concerned. I love FFIII, but the translations from those games are notorious for cutting out entire chunks of script so everything can fit on the cartridge. With a disc based medium this isn't a concern. So at this point, I'm convinced the script is fully accurate to the original writers' intentions and just shittily translated in a grammatical sense.

>>389631147

>Gunge Lance
This would be so cool if it was literally a lance caked in toxic gunge or something.

I love mistranslations like this despite them being objectively bad and dumb sounding. Golden Sun had lots of them. Adds some unique and mysterious charm to an RPG otherwise full of bland, boring, stale shit.
>"Fire Blessing" instead of Fire Breath
>"Death Size" instead of Death Scythe
>"Formina Sage" instead of Fulminous Edge

>>389632421
You know that if you poorly understand a language you're not capable of adequately expressing concepts right? Some japanese dude with piss poor english can't possibly articulate himself properly. And they obviously agree the translation was shit because they changed their methods.

>>389632591
I have no evidence of this being the case besides grammatical errors where the overall point is still clear. And I would still take this over content from the script being cut entirely, anyday.

>>389632437
I think we all desire more unique and creative names in RPGs.

>>389632654
Where was I suggesting that? I just said I want a new decent translation from people with a firm grasp of both languages.

An example I just found is Sephiroth telling Cloud "don't worry" when the original concept was something closer to "nevermind" or "it's not important". Don't worry has a context of sympathy in english that likely wasn't intended for the scene. Is that the kind of shit you care more about?

>>389632040
Most of these seemed pretty cut and dry to me.
Cloud is talking to his "real self" in the breakdown scenes, his inner child you could say. His identity crisis was probably both a result of both having a weak ego/low selfesteem at the time and being injected with jenova's cells turning him into a retard for a while. Zack dying on top of everything else after they escape probably made the whole experience extremely traumatic for him, which is why he ends up the way that he did in midgar, totally messed up in the head.

Zack and Cloud took out Sephiroth somehow which is why they would have been experimented on by hojo imo. or he could have just did it for kicks since he was a sick bastard anyways

And no, it wasn't on purpose, that much should be obvious. He didn't kill zack with his own hands, but he must have felt bad about it afterwards since he found it easier to "erase" zack and merge his experiences (or perceived experiences) into his own identity

>>389632778
you're in luck

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14914.0

>>389632778
lol I don't understand this adversarial attitude. all I asked was if you knew of any significant differences in the scripts and you made it clear all you know is typos and cultural crap like this. FFVII's translation has a reputation for being WILDLY different from the original script yet there is no evidence for this anywhere

not defending the original work as Shakespeare or anything but I think it gets a bad rap. especially since PC ports fix most of this shit

>>389632040
Here's my take on it. His Identity crisis isn't strictly a product of either the experienents or the breakdown of his ego, but both together, as well as Zacks death. It's all the traumaization mixed together. From there, in an extremely weakened mental state, he has to craft a new identity, like some severely wounded animal hiding in a cave to recouperate. But it's not physical, it's mental, and it's not something like he did it purposefully and is misleading people, he did it in order to keep himself together and be able to interact in the world because his previous identity was shattered (like I said earlier identity is just a vessel of being). So Clouds "vessel" is quantifiably bits and pieces of Zack and himself and all sorts of fucked up shit mixed up together. The way to fix all this is to understand all of the fragments (this is where Tifa comes in, by jumping into what can be described as the sum of all identities and all existence, ever) and it's how Cloud is able to put everything back together. And it's not really that he is just Cloud again, he understands that Zack is a quantifiable part of him, but that is also who Cloud is.

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>>389632673

>TFW play this as a kid
>"Laglace Sword" sounds really cool
>Lag-Lace, Lag-less, either is great
>become adult
>re-play FFTA
>get this weapon
>realize it's "LaGlace" as in an ice elemental sword

It sounded way cooler the first time...

>>389632809
I agree with this that the voices in his head that you see from time to time are his true self.

>>389632883
I've never heard of the translation being wildly different, just that it was poorly done garbage. I'm not intending to sound adversarial.

>>389632873
That looks interesting. I'm already fairly far into my current playthrough though which will likely be the last before the remake assuming I get it.

>>389631440
I wouldn't blame them if they just want to filter shitposters. It really seems like you were just trying to start shit instead of having some sort of discussion. If you gave any actual reasons you don't like it then it would have been fine. I doubt they were offended or anything, they just didn't want to deal with you acting retarded.

>>389633013
yeah, i think they even had him talk to the child model of himself in a few dream sequences/breakdown scenes so that you know

>>389632809
>zack

Sephiroth was Cloud's hero. He joined Sephiroth EXPRESSLY to be like Sephiroth. The flashback at the well with Tifa shows this. In any case, that's what I was referring to.

>>389632912
I think you're onto something but I definitely think Zack became a substantive part of his personal identity at least from the point of meeting him. Zack is like Kaworu (without the homoerotic undertones), the first outlet for Cloud to be able to express himself unconditionally in his whole life. He doesn't have to worry about how the clique in Nibelheim will gossip about him or how his fragile ego will be effected if Tifa doesn't interpret him the way he wants her to. Zack's a SOLDIER, First Class, exactly as he set out to be, who is purely and 100% sympathetic to him and his cause. He is literally everything he had set out to be, and on top of that, a really nice guy to him.

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FFVII is my favorite game ever.

>>389632873

I can endorse the Reunion retranslation. It's actually my preferred method of replaying now. I have a lot of nostalgia and love for certain lines in the original release but playing it now feels like a step backwards.

>>389618812
it's an anime. you meet a character, learn their tragic backstory and are supposed to instantly feel attached to their motive, and if you don't then "you just don't get it".
i love ff7, but not for the story. cid is best character, yuffie hottest girl

>>389633259
>joined Sephiroth

fuck, I guess it's clear I've been drinking. I should have said "set out to join SOLDIER"

>>389633259
Yes I think that is definitely part of it. The reason Cloud becomes so traumatized and crafted his jacked up identity in this way is because Zack was of monumental existential importance to him already, and validated him on an existential level. He was like a benevolent manifestation of Clouds dreams. Zack was essentially already resonating within Cloud as an integral part of his identity pre-trauma!

>>389633259
referring to which point? didnt see anything about sephiroth in your post.

even after getting fucked up im pretty sure he had the sephiroth thing figured out though, he hated his guts the entire game and is able to admit from the start that he used to idolize him. it was zack that he had problems coming to terms with for whatever reason, along with his own weakness

>>389633484
>Zack was essentially already resonating within Cloud as an integral part of his identity pre-trauma!

YES exactly. He's like, "Fuck man, you're everything I ever wanted to be, except I'm not good enough and it's all the more obvious now that I've met you."

He's looking at Aeris like "you should meet my mom" and Zack like "you should fuck this girl I know back home" except Zack has ALREADY fucked *Aeris* and Tifa's getting sick and tired of his bullshit but internalizing it as fear for what he might do to himself or others as a result of his clear and present schizoid predicament and aspodifuqpoeiruafdpoiu

Plus Zack is 6'3 and cloud is 5'7.

>>389633560
I'm TELLING you, that when I said "personal hero," I was referring to Sephiroth, because he is both Cloud's reference point for the kind of man he wants to be for the sake of impressing his hometown and figuratively a measure of mankind exerting itself to the utmost to achieve godhood. And Cloud killed Sephiroth's mortal form in the Nibelheim reactor. That is what I'm referring to.

>>389633819
ah, gotcha

why would he feel guilt for killing sephiroth though? that fucker was crazy and killed everyone he ever knew basically

>>389623837
Literally who?

>>389633948
That was probably Cloud's original break. He had to overcome the peak of his personal beliefs to confront what was killing his hometown. This was a man who inspired him to basically leave behind his entire life back home to go on tour with the military, and he ended up having to kill his idol (kek) with his own two hands to keep the sanctity of his roots alive. And even then, from all appearances after the fact, it failed, because he was just being a crazy person according to everyone that was there afterwards.

Cloud...had a hard life

>>389620831
this doesnt matter and is not part of Final Fantasy 7. When peopel talk about FF7 they mean FF7 and not some other product.

>>389631147
>the translation sucks
>i don't speak or understand Japanese whatsoever :)
You're a cancer upon anyone who actually enjoys Japanese games for what they are, fuck off.

>>389634239
a lot of the translation flat out sucks, you can tell easily if you play with the reunion retranslation. midgar had it the worst, so much of aeris' dialog made no sense

>>389634239
People who speak both languages say the translation sucks though. That's why there are so many translation projects. I enjoy japanese games and have likely been playing them longer than you've been alive but that's no excuse for poor translations.

>>389618812
You're supposed to play the fucking game. He gets actual character development

>>389630980
It's just a mess, nearly all of the side dialogue was skipped over to the point where some of it is nonsense. It's a bit jarring because some of the main content is translated pretty well (let's mosey etc) but some of the side stuff is Japanese 101 tier.

>>389633730
Right, it's not about the perception of greatness and strength it's about authenticity.

>>389634239
>HURRR IF YOU DONT SPEAK JAPANESR THEN YOUR OPINION ON THIS ENGLISH TEXT IS MEANINGLESS

>>389621852
Its called a remake for a reason anon, just let it all go and accept it wont be close to the original.

>>389634216
Wrong

>>389618812
Jesus, what a coddled child.

>>389634847
Kinda, yeah. It's about inadequacy and Cloud having a massive inferiority complex because he is holding himself to the standard set by the absolute peak of humanity.

>>389633730
(You should check my pics in the draw threads)

>>389627325
Yuffie is a materia splicer. Will never forgive her for stealing my materia

>>389623712
Nope. I prefer Doctor Cid in FF12

>>389623712
I like FF8 Cid because ingame he looks like Robin Williams.

>>389618812
>a character has to be introduced in the same iteration as they'll spend the rest of the game
>durr what's character development
Jesus Christ you fucking child.

>>389635286
Not an argument