someone please explain to me why sega is hellbent on not making

>>389488106
Sonic Adventure 3 was Sonic 06, sorry OP.

They made it in 2006 and were universally shat on for it so they decided to never revisit that gameplay style ever again

>>389488106
Sonic 06 is your Sonic Adventure 3

>>389488106
sonic 06 is sonic adventure 3 in everything but the name.

>>389488174
06 wasn't an actual bad game aside from cringe it was just the bugs and glitches.

because sonic adventure 2 was so good that they don't want to ruin the series. plus there would be way too much hype at this point. no matter how good sonic adventure 3 would be, people would still whine because too high expectations due to years and years of waiting.

Let me explain something to you OP, since you were young when this happened and didn't really think much of it.
I very much like the original Adventure games, but they were a rocky start for 3D Sonic. Mind you these games came out years after great titles like Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, etc. 3D gaming had already been established and after SEGA fumbling to get a new Sonic game on their Saturn system, they rushed out Adventure as quickly as possible (note the word rushed, this will come up again later).
As a result the Adventure games (although 2 is a bit more polished) are incredibly buggy games with terrible controls. They just don't hold up well. A few years later, still continuing this gameplay style they released Sonic Heroes. Sonic Heroes was critically received as the WORST SONIC GAME EVER MADE. In retrospect this seems like nonsense compared to the shit that came after, but this was the start of a trend.
Then Shadow came out, and it was the WORST SONIC GAME EVER MADE
It was just this slow decline of game quality that finally reached its peak with Sonic 06. SEGA was so desperate for money around this time because of their failure as a console manufacturer that they just wanted to rush out as many games as fast as possible with the Sonic brand to recover their losses. The team behind Sonic 06 were forced to release the game before the anniversary, despite the game only being an alpha prototype the previous year. What you end up with is a pure abomination, probably the most unfinished game in history.
All of these Sonic games receiving such poor reviews scared SEGA so shitless that they immediately rebooted 3D Sonic's gameplay, banned the majority of Sonic's friends from ever appearing for several years, and got rid of the serious plot for comical stuff. Thus Unleashed.
After SEGA was traumatized by the reception for that entire era of Sonic games, and given it's now a hip meme because of Game Grumps to hate SA, do you really think they would risk that?

>>389488106
Who will be the new hedgehog? Silver doesn't count.

sonic adventure 3 is actually sonic 06

06 unironically is adventure 3

>>389488984
When was Heroes called the worst game ever made?

>>389488106
no, anon, a handful of facebook pages with less than 10,000 total does not count as 'much demand'

>>389488171
/thread

>>389488106
I want you to explain to me what would be the actual difference if they titled the game(s) "Sonic Adventures 3" instead of Sonic The Hedgehog or Sonic Forces

>>389490135
Adventurefags only wanted the Chao Garden. Just make it a standalone game.

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https://twitter.com/DonkeyDudeVA/status/905215602058514433

>>389488984
>terrible controls
Unless you're talking about the mechs, that's completely untrue.
Even if they were "traumatized" it's been over a decade and surely they realize they never once took their time with that style of a sonic game.
I'm fairly positive that they could make something great if they got the old team together and gave them 3 years.

>>389488106
They didn't have the same talent that made 1 and 2. The same reason why no choa game.

Is Sonic 06 actually Sonic adventure 3?

>>389488984
I am literally playing sa2 battle right now it has littlle to no glitches (unless you're talking about dreamcast)

>>389490448
I meant camera.

>>389489968
When it was released.

>>389489583
classic omochao the hedgehog

>There is so much demand
There is? Where?

Because those games were awful.

You only like then because you were a child who didn't know better. Playing them today the games are barely any better than any other modern type Sonic game.

The only thing that needs to be brought back is the Chao garden.

Otherwise fuck those games.

Source: I was a Sonic autist

>>389491816
>You only like then because you were a child who didn't know better. Playing them today the games are barely any better than any other modern type Sonic game.
>Source: I was a Sonic autist
Something's not adding up
unless you adopted those opinions from e-celebs that is.

>>389491816
its their the best 3d sonic games, either you're not a fan of sonic or are a complete fucking idiot

>>389492060

No I played the games with my Nephew and I realized how bad they were and how miserable the game is outside Sonic and Shadow segments. It's all a slog and glitchy as fuck.

Then Sonic mania and Generations came out. Which just solidified that feeling further.

Maybe Sonic Forces will be decent since it seems to be pretty much Generations.

Don't get me wrong I look back at the games fondly but by no means am I touching those fucking games ever again.

Mania is really the direction Sonic needs to go as 3D just isn't a good fit but if they insist then Generations format is really the best.

>>389492801
I am currently playing the game there are no glitches unless you're delusional. generations was mostly press forward to win, sa2 was actually somewhat challenging if you're trying to go fast.

>>389492801
>the classic "only this part is good" argument
Adventure was pretty fun if you knew what you were doing and every story that isn't big averages to decent overall.
2 had more narrow level design for sonic and shadow which worked well for it specifically. Emerald hunting segments weren't bad at all either aside from 2 stages, but yes, mechs were trash.
For every single fault these games have, it brings something good to compensate.

As for 3d, it could very well work, Sega just fucked it up every time between all the rushing and misreading the fanbase. Just look at utopia for example.

>>389488106
I can stomach boost garbage if there was ever a proper Chao Garden again. Until then I'm not dealing with boostshit or the sorry excuses of 2D segments. Mania made it clear how much those segments suck.

>>389493281

It does but not Sonic 06 bad

But I had Major issues like Chaos going missing for no reason, clipping or falling through the ground. That is least been my experience.

Same can be said about SA nothing was really challenging other than fighting with controls sometimes. Yeah the Generations gameplay was just go straight but you can say that about any Sonic game. Most of the 3D games are not hard but they can benefit from more challenge. Which is why I prefer shit like Mania overall.

>>389493696

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the modern Sonic segments too. The whole game is fun.

As I stated they have a place in my heart and I do love some parts of them but I don't think they are that good. Let alone why even bother with a 3? It would be in name only as I feel the following games were following similar ideas anyways and a lot of the plot is pretty much out the window anyways. So it would just be in name. Because do you really want to play as the other characters? To each of their own but to me it was always well let's get it over with.

I would be ok with the boost games if the movement didn't feel like sonic had 20 dicks up his ass.

>>389488480
It was terrible in every way you furry faggot

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>>389488864
>was so good that they don't want to ruin the series

No, SEGA doesn't think like that at all, hell I doubt even Valve fully thinks this regarding HL3. Sonic Team chases a mixture of whatever gimmick interests them, generational appeals and re-using all previous assets.

>>389488106
>There is so much demand


No there isn't. Sonic Adventure 2 nearly killed the franchise.

>>389495076
>No there isn't. Sonic Adventure 2 nearly killed the franchise.
But both games sold well
You not personally liking them =/= death of a series

>>389494504
If you haven't realized it by now, sa and 2 only share a skeleton, the actual gameplay is very different.
The problem is that while the first one had so much untapped potential, the sequel locked the series into its decline with all its questionable design choices.
Of course there are nostalgiafags, but many people just want the 3d sonic game that adventure was meant to be.

>>389494802
I'm not saying its good but without glitches it would probably be just below average

>>389488106
Because Sonic Team is retarded, Aaron webber is friends with gamegrumps, and all of the people who made SA and SA2 good left?

>>389495076
Not on Dreamcast which was where they mattered. You are thinking of gamecube/steam releases.

>>389495542
meant for >>389495183

Sonic Adventure 2 was the first nail in a coffin that was never fully nailed shut.

>>389488106
Every time this thread is made, the first replies are just to piss off fans. Its a fucking meme at this point.

But really, Sega just doesnt have the talent needed anymore. They are stalling because they are waiting for someone that can actually make a game feel great AND look great in the adventure style.

It would be the magnum opus of sega's engineering. Sega would have to spend years developing and testing it. They know its going to be huge, but it would be absolutely terrible right now.

>>389495668
>nail in coffin
yet it sold millions

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You SA2 autists are fucking delusional. The game was a terrible departure from both Sonic Adventure AND Sonic the Hedgehog.

>>389495910
It didn't even sell a million you fucking liar.
>>389496021

>>389495910
see >>389495265

>>389488171
>>389488174
>>389488237
>>389488343
>>389489836
>>389489964


No it isn't
>in everything but name
You're right. It isn't Sonic adventure 3.

>ALL YOU WANT IS A NAME?
Yeah. Until then you can parrot your fucking meme all you want. discussion will continue as planned.

>>389495894
honestly if they a can make sonic forces something other than linear boosting simulator I doubt they'd be far off in designing an adventure tier game

>>389496142
Is this the opposite of the "It's a good game, but isn't a good X Game"? Because it really sounds like you're saying "Despite the fact that it plays like an Adventure game, has all the nuances and mechanics of an adventure game, but because it's named something else it doesn't count >:("

>>389496105
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic
fucking idiot it sold 3.2 million, stop talking out of you're ass

Fucking delete this SA2 was the best game of the 2000s

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>>389496021
>game sold well when it wasn't on the then dying platform of the Dreamcast
>Compared to Adventure which was released prior to the Dreamcast's quickly reached death bed
Hmmm

>>389496320
Is this bait? That's combined sales from legacy collections you fucking moron.

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>>389496142
>Discussion
>Autists crying that Sonic '06 isn't Sonic Adventure 3 despite the only mainstay not a part of it is the chao garden all the while ignoring all evidence because there's no 3 on the end
>Discussion

>>389496351
Tons of games have sold well on dying platforms. Moot point. There are still games that sell well on PS3 ffs.

>>389496316

So because a game plays similar, its actually the same/a sequel?

You are the one that's reaching here.

>>389496573
So a game plays nearly identically, it's completely different?
Cookie jar isn't far from my unstretched hands

>>389496501
Whats the title of the game you are referring to?

>>389496521
>n-not an argument because I say so
Pathetic.
The PS3 was thriving compared to the Dreamcast, what you say is a false equivalency because the only system that died more than the Dreamcast would be shit like the Virtual Boy. Adventure was a launch title which helped its sales, and both games ended up selling well once they were off a system that had more or less a year long lifespan.

>>389496436
sa2 battle sold 2.56 million, if you combine that with all the sales from other ports it becomes 3.2 million, did you even see my link?

>>389496740
>2.56 + 0.12 = 3.20

>>389496685
>Adventure was a launch title which helped its sales, and both games ended up selling well once they were off a system that had more or less a year long lifespan.

Except this statement is easily disproven by the disparity in sales between SA1 and SA2 and their sales on later consoles. SA2 was a failure because most Sonic fans at the time hated it. Period. Nobody went WAAAAAAH DREAMCAST IS DYING SO IM NOT BUYING THE SEQUEL. You are honestly fucking retarded if you think that.

>>389496646

No one said it's completely different, the argument is it isnt a sequel.

Which it isnt. Because of the name. The words you are probably looking for are "spiritual successor", but in no way is it related to the series in question.

>>389496867
So if it was the exact same game, but it said "Sonic Adventure 3" instead of "Sonic the Hedgehog", you'd be 100% satiated?

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>>389496853
>fans at the time hated it
For calling others retarded you sure have nothing supporting any claims you've made ITT and everything disproving them.

>>389496740
SA2 battle is not fucking sonic adventure 2 so it is in no way indicative of the demand for a sonic adventure 3. Sega pushed more copies of a fucking NOSTALGIA edition of the game than the actual game itsself. They don't care about GC sales when the GC had barely any games. They care about the fact that fans didn't show up for Sonic Adventure 2. It's basic fucking market analysis.

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>>389496682
>"I-It's not /CALLED/ Sonic Adventure 3 so it's not Sonic Adventure 3!"
>Has hub worlds like Sonic Adventure
>Has multiple stories like Sonic Adventure
>Has multiple playable characters like Sonic Adventure
>Adds a third story because Sonic Adventure 2 added a second
>Final Stage is a gauntlet with all characters but 1 like Sonic Adventure 2
>Raises the stakes from destroying the earth in Sonic Adventure 2 to destroying the multiverse
>But it's not Sonic Adventure 3 because it's not called Sonic Adventure 3
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it doesn't matter if I call it a goose, it's a duck.

>>389496976
>linking metacrittic

If you actually bothered to read the reviews you would see they admit they didnt play the dreamcast version, which means they werent fans at the time.

>>389496786
>illiteracy
2.56+0.1093+0.108+0.52=3.2973

>>389496976
post 2 user scores on that page from the year of SA2's release

>>389497095
>linking metacritic
>moving the goalposts this hard out of desperation
Get fucked

>Unleashed has Boost Sonic and Werehog
>Generations has Boost Sonic and Classic Sonic
>Forces has Boost Sonic, Classic Sonic, Avatar and sorta Heroes style tagteam
What is the difference between these titles and Adventure games? For me Adventure is just different characters having different objectives and playstyles.

>>389497095
Also the very first review is a guy talking about how he still has his Dreamcast so get fucked doubly

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Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 aren't good games, even Sonic Team knows it. Be glad they haven't created a sequel to shitty games.

>>389497156
Moving what goalposts? The user reviews admit they didnt play the dreamcast version. You were using it as an example of fan sentiment. Stop citing logical fallacies you don't understand.

>>389496986
>exact port isn't the game because i said so

What?

OP should realize a name doesn't mean anything.
We had a sonic 4 and it was shit by classic fags standards.
Should classic fags rename mania as the true sonic 4, since the game filled this role?
We had many games that tried to fill the SA3 role, mostly '06.
It's not coming, and be glad for that because modern sega would fuck it up in some way, unless someone else does it like it happened with mania.

>>389497330
>The user reviews admit they didnt play the dreamcast version
Looked at the very first review, saw this, clearly talking about the Dreamcast version
Get
Fucked

>>389497287
Wow one review. Good job. Ignore the others who admit they played it on gamecube and invalidate your source. You do realize a quarter million people played it on dreamcast? You provided a source with less than 1% of that as "fan sentiment."

>>389496924

I would imagine so. It would also put an end to the meme.

Let me frame it in another light. Go into a devil may cry thread and start memeing "DmC was devil may cry 5" and see how far you get with that.

Same general combat system? Check.
Same characters, with some additional new ones? Check.
Same movement about the world? Yeah sure.

It just doesnt work, man.

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>>389497427
Forgot the image
>>389497473
I looked through the reviews and basically none are talking about the Gamecube. Only DC. You're resorting to making shit up at this point. It's pathetic, really.

>>389497427
See
>>389497473

>>389496142
And Buu's Fury isn't Legacy of Goku 3.

>>389497595
Hold one, let me create an account and see if they can prove I never played a dreamcast

>>389497731
>uh oh my claim of people talking about the gamecube was false
>better make an account so I can make one myself and imply all the people are just lying when I just made a claim that wasn't right
Keep backpedaling, faggot. Next time have good arguments instead.

>>389490636
Nah, similar set up though. 06 was just a reboot of the series

>>389497826
You're talking to more than one person. Still waiting on you to find a single user review from the year SA2 released

>>389497004
Ok, but what did the company that made the game call it?

You haven't answered my question. Does the name of the series lead you to believe its related somehow?

Easy to get confused i know, "Sonic the hedgehog 2006" and "Sonic Adventure 3" Look so similar in wordage that they might sound like the same words or something, but in fact, they are different!

>>389497826
That wasn't even me you autismo. There is literally a dude named gamecubelover in the fucking reviews and another person who says it's a great game for both dreamcast and gamecube which just further reinforces my point. You are either intentionally being daft or you are an absolute retard.

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>>389497960
>"REEEE STOP SAYING FACTS, IT'S NOT CALLED SONIC ADVENTURE 3 SO IT'S NOT"
Can't tell if this is bait or not but here's your (You)

>>389497630

>Legacy of Goku: Buu's fury
>Legacy
>of
>Goku

Notice that it contains the same words as its predecessors, so they can be linked.

But notice Sonic "2006" and Sonic "Adventure 3" do not!

1. '06 is Adventure 3.

2. The "Sonic and his amazing friends!" era has become a point of contention among the fans leading to many considering it the Dark Age of Sonic and as such the games have moved away from that style from Colors onward.

>>389498104

Oh so its a fact that the title is Sonic Adventure 3?

News to me, shitposter.

>>389498006
>>389497909
>make unsubstantiated claims
>n-no you're the retarded
I enjoy watching you grasp at straws. You're dedicated to your deluded reality, I'll give you that much.

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The Adventure games were a product of the times. Everything about the games was a result in them experimenting in how to bring the franchise into 3D, from the mixed bag of gameplay styles to the over-the-top plotlines.

Sega making Adventure 3 nowadays would just result in them falling flat on their face as always since nobody there has any idea why people like any aspect of Sonic; Classic, Adventure, or otherwise.

>>389498267
>2. The "Sonic and his amazing friends!" era has become a point of contention among the fans leading to many considering it the Dark Age of Sonic and as such the games have moved away from that style from Colors onward.

Things 3d autists will never understand. Why would sega want to bring back shit that destroyed the franchise?

>>389498378
>Still can't find a single documented user review from the year of SA2's release
You have one simple job, anon. Don't tell me you're hiding something

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>>389498378
Stay pathetic anon.

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>>389488106
But anon, they did.

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I can live without an Adventure game because they were flawed, but holy shit I'm tired of Boost. The past few games have just been Boost shit with bad 2D segments in-between, I want this formula to die already. Forces is going to be that too and that makes it even worse
Sega is too scared to do anything new so they're keeping to this mediocre formula

>ITT: Shitposters fuck up an adventure thread #432814978

>>389488106
because they'd screw it up and let your expectations down

>>389498518
>two deluded retards instead of one
>>389498479
>already tried making up shit
>still trying to accuse anyone else of making up shit
Keep at it, it's funny

>>389498553
Lost World was great

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>>389498371
>Never claim it's called Sonic Adventure 3
>"STOP CALLING IT SONIC ADVENTURE 3, IT'S NOT CALLED SONIC ADVENTURE 3"
Remember that Doom '16 is actually DOOM 4 despite not being called that. Not all sequels need numbers. This is why people find Adventurefags to be cancerous shits, they're in denial so hard that the game NEEDS a 3 on the end to be validated

>>389498265

>What are thematic/mechanical links?

'06 utilizes the hub world mechanics, upgrade progression style, level design, and story beats the Adventure games were known for and was even a direct continuation of its events.

>>389498656
The only one deluded here is the one who thinks Sonic Adventure 2 was a big hit with actual Sonic fans classic or adventure.

>>389498769
Lost World wasn't Boost railroad, it was a different style entirely

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Story and character wise, Heroes is the closest that we have to Adventure 3. 06 has similar gameplay style, but it's not really SA3 since it's meant to be the series reboot, that's like calling the NSMB series Mario Bros 5-8 or calling the Sonic Advance trilogy Sonic 4-6 just because it has similar gameplay styles to the previous games

>>389498769
Bait?

>>389498842
Everyone but you and other shitstains on /v/ seem to think otherwise judging from literally every available source, but you live in the pseudo-reality where things this contrarian board says are true

>>389498842
>True sonic fan
fuck off

>>389498875
Nah, get some taste it was a solid 3D platformer better than the Galaxy games honestly

>>389498826

Yeah and DmC is DMC5. When the developers release DMC5 you'll have to write them a letter about it, telling them they got their numbering wrong.

>>389488106
But Anon, Sonic 2006 WAS Sonic Adventure 3.

>>389499007
good and great are two different things

I wish we had SA2 tier voice acting or sound mixing back. Fuck just give me some delicious buttrock and I'm good too

>>389498862

You can't really call Heroes that considering the drastic tonal shift and the basic homogenization of all the characters whereas in the Adventure titles and '06 they all had individual movesets.

>>389498769

Game play was ok but the story and character design were kinda crap.

>>389497254
Boost levels are pretty much hallways with an occasional 2D segment, Adventure Sonic was more open and sometimes rewarded exploration

>>389499057
>Different universe is still canon and should be called a sequel

no

>>389499057

Now you're just being facetious. DmC is set in an entirely different canon from the outset and handled by an entirely different set of developers. 06 started along the canon timeline then got nullified due to time travel shenanigans.

>>389499076
It's great though

>>389499154
>Same characters
>Same combat
>Same general movement and flow
>Same in everything but the title

Your move.

>Different universe is still canon and should be called a sequel

Same for 06.

>>389498917
>Everyone but you and other shitstains on /v/ seem to think otherwise judging from literally every available source, but you live in the pseudo-reality where things this contrarian board says are true

I would love to see you write a research paper since you don't seem to know how to interpret data worth a shit. It was a financial fucking failure. Period. Sega doesn't look at remix sales because they know that is not indicative of actual interest in a sequel. If Pokemon died and gamefreak released a new Red and Blue remix, they wouldnt take that success as WHOOP TIME FOR A SEQUEL. It's just not how it works. If you can't understand this you are seriously stupid. Nostalgia is an entirely different market than the sequel market.

>>389498973
I accept there are different types of Sonic fans. I'm just trying to help these retards wrap their mind around the fact Sonic Adventure 2 caused a giant divide in the fanbase. The majority of its fans were small children that were new to the franchise.

>>389488106
>budget is probably shit
>they probably do not know how to make the gameplay like Adventure's
>"sonic's friends suck" is still a thing for a lot in regards to 3D Sonic
>multiple vastly different gameplay styles takes more work and time
>fear they could not make a game to live up to the hype
>Iizuka hates making numbered sequels

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>>389499338

>Same general movement and flow
>Same characters

>>389499338
>>Same characters
>>Same combat
>>Same general movement and flow
>>Same in everything but the title
>
>Your move.
r u baiting

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Unleashed came out around 9 years ago
>Initially conceived of as the third installment in the Sonic Adventure sub-series
>The games called World Adventure in Japan

>>389499338
>same characters

What are you talking about? new vergil cotradicts old vergil's morals, dante is same only in name, sparda is a pussy even though he raped mundus in the orginal

>Same flow

not really, you can spam the same attacks and still get SSS

>Same in everything except title

no starfall/killer bee,
piss easy jump canceling,
game is baby mode compared to others

>>389498553
No. For the first time in ages, 3D Sonic actually had a good formula with Generations. Not too much wisp shit and 2D like in Colours, no sharing half the game with a shitty God of War clone like in Unleashed. We had tight fast-paced platforming, plenty of different routes, hidden goodies and barely any bugs. The only real flaws were the story and the final boss, but that's fine since the basic gameplay was golden.
And then people like you shit the place up, getting Sega to reinvent the wheel every fucking time like with Lost World. I bet you think that Sega should start experimenting with 2D Sonic again now that Mania's done? Fuck off.

>>389499996
>Golden gameplay
its boost and press forward to win, are you stupid?

>>389498265
But it literally does not say The Legacy of Goku.

>>389499996
What this anon said>>389500132
And the 2D segments suck and always have, 2D Sonic is only done well when the game is just 2D Sonic

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>>389488106
Because we all know the rules of three for any game dev these days.

>>389500132
>>389500249
Is this some meme or something? You still need to time jumps, slide and quick step. If you actually want to get a decent time then you have to get good at these. If you really believe that then show me a video of someone playing Generations and using nothing but boost and forward.

>>389501041
It's a meme but it has some truth to it as big chunks of boost games play themselves and there's not that much interaction within the formula

>>389501041
pressing a button while its telegraphed for 10 seconds is not difficult, if you played something like adventure 2 where you extremely precise and have fast reflexes to even win the level let alone a rank it. generations becomes pure brain dead with super sonic

>>389501450
>big chunks of boost games play themselves
In earlier levels, sure, but you're still getting players used to the speed. Later levels throw a lot more obstacles. Imo, apart from Green Hill I never thought any level went obnoxious with boost.

>>389501471
You're exaggerating. 10 seconds is ridiculous and whilst Adventure 2 did rely on much more precise platforming, it also failed at times because of bullshit camera angles, enemy placement and bugs. Generations meanwhile is more fast reactions than precision platforming and I feel like that core gameplay both suits Sonic better and is more enjoyable.

Fine, you guys have your grievances but I don't think the answer is to reinvent the wheel each game. All Sonic Team has to do is tweak slightly, add more hazards and such if that would make for more engaging gameplay. It seems like they're tweaking things anyway for Forces so we'll see.

>>389502789
The answer was never to reinvent, the answer revisit the adventure style gameplay and polish it even more.

>>389498656
>Still can't prove that Sonic Adventure 2 was popular among fans at the time
lmaoing @ ur shilling

Keep Sonic 2.5D, remove all the "friends", and MAYBE you can just add Shadow, as his design is unironically one of the best in the entire Sonic Franchise.

>>389503218
>Keep sonic 2.5D
wrong

>>389503218
>liking Shadow

>>389503306
3D sonic simply doesn't translate as well gameplay wise or level design wise as 2.5D does.

>>389503363
Work on his writing as a character a bit and he'd be a reasonable addition to the basic Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles formula. What I like about Shadow is his design.

>>389503218
2.5d is what's ruining sonic, if they put all their effort into one style the game will dramatically better if i wanted 2d i'd play classic sonic

>>389503429
It translates fine. Sonic Team can't design 3D levels for shit. Design them like you would a race track, you know, shit that is meant to be rode fast?

>>389503363
>not liking pre-edgelord shadow

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There was literally nothing wrong with Sonic's friends up until silver

>>389503454
I'm retarded, I was stating 2.5D as if it was simply high definition 2D. Sonic 4 or whatever was 2.5D right?

>>389503528
But does it work as well as 2D sonic does with gameplay and level design? I highly doubt Forces will be as good as Mania.

>>389488106
Because the Adventure games were pretty shit.

>>389503756
The only thing stopping forces from being anything is Sonic Team. If Sonic Team made Mania it would be a pile of shit. For Fuck's sake the 3D Sonic fan game made on the Doom engine 20+ years ago is better than any Adventure style or Boost style Sonic game

>>389503756
>doubt mania is better than forces
it probably would be if they focused their effort to strictly 3d

>>389503557
Also this, Sonic Adventure 2 Shadow wasn't even that edgy, it wasn't until that terrible solo game he got bad. Shadow in the 2D/Mania setting could easily be tweaked to be a rival or something like that who shows up every now and then an becomes playable later.

>>389503889
So basically Sonic Team should outsource all their Sonic games from now on to other competent Devs? I'd like to see Nintendo try their hands at a Sonic game.

>>389503889
>mania> all
not really

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>>389504009
I'd rather Sonic Team be entirely restaffed with competent designers, because outsourcing seems to only result in Dimps making Sonic games, which pic related. It's not the easiest task in the world, but It's also not impossible.

>>389504031
But I never said that?

>>389488106
>There is so much demand
Lol

>>389504203
>3D Sonic fan game made on the Doom engine 20+ years ago is better than any Adventure style or Boost style Sonic game
but you did

>>389496142
let's not forget the Chao Garden, because it seems like Sega has. Seriously, how is it not at the very least a phone app at this point?

>track record having shit games recently
>they don't want to fuck up so bad they literally let a group of autists make mania

>>389504318
>Sonic Mania is a 3D, 20+ year old fan made game
Anon, I'm talking about Sonic Robo Blast 2. It's far from perfect, but what they made is in my mind, far better than what Sonic Team has been able to do

>>389503110
My issue with that is that I find Generation's gameplay to be better than Sonic/Shadow's Adventure parts. I guess it all comes down to personal taste.

>>389504561
lol sorry got mixed up

>>389504713
look at city escape from sa2 and city escape from gen, half of gen is just automated filler where you just boost, but in adventure 2 its fast paced, and you actually have to think and jump for maximum speed.

For the 800th time since Mania came out
>Adventure games
General movement felt good, mechanics felt shit, very spotty level design
>Boost games
General movement felt shit, mechanics felt good, very spotty level design
>The apparent mythical land of unobtainable dreams
General movement feels good, mechanics feel good, decent level design

>>389505346
holding square to win is a good mechanic how

>>389505616
It made Sony millions with God of War so it can't be all bad

>>389505714
don't forget arkham knight

I hate how people ironically think Adventure style gameplay was the peak of 3D Sonic. It's literally the same shit as Modern Sonic, just without the Boost and more useless space that doesn't contribute to the overall progression of the stage or even alternate paths. We can give Lost Worlds shit all day long but it did things right:

> 2D & 3D style gameplay separated from one another, more 3D stages in general

> Spindash was basically the Boost, not as fast but you could get a good sense of speed and dash through levels if you were good

> Wisps weren't forced on you and totally skip able in most cases, essentially extra gameplay styles for fun

Only real issues were the gimmicky levels like the Snowball, having to hold a fucking run button to move quick, and the Parkour wasn't used enough or implemented as heavily even though it's a main feature. If they polished this gameplay style it could make a great piece in the future, especially if they expanded 3D levels to make them longer.

>>389505852
The only gameplay style Sega will ever stick with is the Boost, they use new formula and toss it out the window after one game.

>>389505852
It is the peak of 3d sonic and arguably sonic as a whole, but you'll pull things out of your ass to make seem bad because its mainstream to like it and because lost world was generally hated on you'll like it.

>>389505125
>its fast paced, and you actually have to think and jump for maximum speed.
This describes Generations as well. SA2's City Escape is one of my all time favourite levels in video games but Generation's version is still good. My opinion is that whilst Generation's levels stay consistently good, Adventure's peaks and troughs (and that's before you get to the other two playstyles). You have gold like Green Forest and then slogs like Pyramid Cave.

>>389506098
Not even, I like Adventure but believing it's the Peak of 3D Sonic is retarded. There's no backing up it being the best 3D gameplay the series has to offer. Unleashed was probably some of the best.

>>389506130
>slogs like Pyramid Cave
weak nigger that can not door skip detected

>>389506285
then what is the peak of 3d sonic, lost world?

>>389506285
Unleashed has more polish, but adventure 1 had more raw potential. Then 2 fucked it all up.

>>389506417
>hurr durr edgy non mainstream opnions
what the actual fuck are you talking how did sa2 fuck it up?

>>389506339
If you have to use exploits to make the level fun then that's bad game design.

>>389501041
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_sn-tzO5YU
don't defend Boost games because it's lows are higher than previous 3d games lows. It's highs are extremely low and have no potential to carry the franchise any further. It's time to leave this railroad "design" behind for good.

>>389498265
>>389496142
You are a fucking idiot. There is seriously something wrong with you. Please for the love of god never reproduce.

>>389506718
now post a late game zone one handed

>>389506521
Not trying to be that guy but, you hit a wall once in SA2 or even stray off the path in most cases and any sense of speed you had is dead.

>>389506964
spagonia is almost entirely boost or homing attack chains

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>>389488106
>>389488171
>>389488237
>>389488343
>>389489836
>>389489964
>>389490636
Sonic Heroes is Sonic Adventure 3

>>389507071
post it! I'm not on any side of this argument. I just hate it when early game content (Generally easy as shit content) is used to describe an entire game

>>389488106
Would Shadow fuck Maria?

>>389507002
which is why is takes skill to go fast and not just mind numbing boosting sections lol

>>389506521
>more narrow level design (which did work for it as an individual game)
>big focus on friends with diverse play styles
>less about physics with more auto sections and speed ramps
>birth of sonic autism
Shadow was the only good mark sa 2 left on the series.

>>389488106
They've already made like a dozen shit 3D sonic games with basically the same gameplay as Sonic Adventure. You 3D sonic cucks need to kys. 3D sonic games are shit, deal with.

>>389507071
>>389506718
Not an argument and this meme is dumb, just because you can beat the first zone one handed doesn't mean shit. Have you seen any more one handed footage for later zones or any of the other boost games? No. And either way this person is clearly skilled at the game, more so than half the people who whine about boost styled gameplay. I won't say boost gameplay is the best and it does need some major work, a couple side branches and half the stage being 2D with homing attack chains doesn't cut it.

>>389506718
Nah, I defend Generations because I fucking love that game. There's plenty of scope in that gameplay for future titles. The only two flaws I can see is that levels have to be large (and so expensive to produce) to accommodate the speed and boss fights have to be constantly in motion.

>>389497541
Except DmC fucked up things that people liked about DMC.
'06 was basically just a buggier SA1/SA2.

>>389507176
>shadow is only good mark
live and learn, city escape etc

>narrow level design
you just beat yourself in an argument

>diverse playstyles
not a bad thing, would you rather have a black sonic a purple sonic a red sonic or different playstyles
>speed ramps
not really there weren't long boosting sequences they were just to go faster

>sonic autism
something detached from the game entirely, its the fandom's fault

>>389507339
skilled my ass, he just pressed buttons slowly, are you blind?

>>389496682
>>389497004
>>389496142
This is like the inverse of the Sonic 4/Sonic Mania situation.

It's pretty fucking clear that, for all intents and purposes, Sonic Mania is the real Sonic 4, but there was another, much shittier game that already bogarted that name years ago, so you can't actually make it the title.

If they simply made Shadow's game formula the same as Sonic but with weapon, vehicle sections, and chaos abilities, minus the shitty missions and bad glitches alongside 20 story endings it would have been great.

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>>389507856
but obviously sega is retarded so have this instead

>>389507617
>songs are gameplay
>forces still has crush 40

>you just beat yourself in an argument
?
>not a bad thing, would you rather have a black sonic a purple sonic a red sonic or different playstyles
Not at the time, (besides the ruined mechs compared to gamma) but it opened the door to so much other shit: silver, werehog stages, classic sonic in generations, wisps, cold steel oc in forces, etc. that just pads out the games and offers nothing.
>not really there weren't long boosting sequences they were just to go faster
You're missing the point, those still took control away from the player.
>something detached from the game entirely, its the fandom's fault
Then tell me, how did it get so bad?

>>389496986
This is fucking retarded m8, I don't even like SA2 but maybe the original didn't sell that well because the Dreamcast was unpopular.

>>389508625
>songs
you said good mark not gameplay effect

>?
you brought up the narrow level point then said it worked nicely for the game, you shut down your own argument

>character diversity
it worked for the game individually, you can't criticise a good decison in a game because of its retarded developers being retarded.

>takes away control
taking away control for a split second is hardly a concern of mine

>How did it get so bad
Because the fandom is toxic on its own, do you think had this toxicity in mind when developing the game.

>>389507617
>not a bad thing
It's only fucking Adventurebabies that say this shit. No other successful game in the genre did that shit.

>>389495414
>Aaron webber is friends with gamegrumps
He's just a PR guy who shits out unfunny memes, why would he be relevant?

>>389509260
lmfao the idea isn't bad but the execution is shit,
I'd rather not have 5 sonic clones in the same game

>>389488106
Sonic Heroes continued from SA2

>>389507095
this. Heroes was Adventure 3 and the second in the Shadow trilogy. Shadow the Hedgehog was the fourth game in the Adventure series, and the third in the Shadow trilogy.

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I'm just gonna copypaste a thread I made before because I think it's a point still worth making:

Sonic Adventure isn't "badly aged"; it was always fun despite the flaws.

Back in 1999 we already had Crash 2 and Mario 64, which were and still are some of the best platformers out there. Crash is not aged by definition, because culture is what defines what is aged; the N. Sanity Collection was well loved by audiences.

Those games always had better camera, better physics and far less glitches than SA1. I played SA1 a few years late when I was 11 and I could already tell the camera was messy and the glitches were hilarious. But I still loved the game as did audiences for the longest time. Why?

It's charming and fun, being a true passion project full of little things the devs added based on their personal experiences and tastes. It might not be as good mechanically but it offers the same sort of honest sense of Sonic Team fun as games like NiGHTS and Sonic CD (or for an around equally mechanically flawed equivalent, Burning Rangers) and it being the only Adventure game Ohshima was closely involved with (he directed the other 3 games I listed) is probably a part of that.

It also in terms of mechanics offers something not necessarily unique but not as well executed as its predecessors. SA2, Heroes & 06 all had that type of fast platforming but it simply did not execute it nearly as well; SA2 had bland level design with little variety or inventive & fun to experience set pieces, Heroes had the stupid fighting bullshit and 06 is 06, a game that experienced practically zero bug testing.

I dind't mention "Unleashed Daytime Style" because those are are so different as to belong to their own genre. Racing platformer?

>>389509232
>you brought up the narrow level point then said it worked nicely for the game, you shut down your own argument

What I'm trying to say is that sa 2 made sega think all these shitty practices would continue to sell and that's what made sonic crash and burn.
It irrelevant to my point whether or not it was good.

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>Hurr durr but anon SA3 already came out

Fuck off. That's completely irrelevant to the point. the point being that Sega doesn't make games in this style anymore, I liked them, and the adventure formula never reached its full potential. It doesn't matter if there was secretly a third, or fourth, or fifth, adventure game because nobody makes these games anymore.

Also, fuck you, I liked the shootan and huntan segments in SA1.

>>389509663
fair enough

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>>389509604
based anon, have a sonic.

>>389509909
>>389509604
>It also in terms of mechanics offers something not necessarily unique but not as well executed as its predecessors.
I meant "successors" oops.

>>389509810
i honestly think adventure style reached its full potential in Heroes, they should have made more games like that, refined so power and flight had its own stories instead of easy/intermediate/hard/mission

>>389509420
You can do alternate characters and make them unique enough while still using the same core mechanics. Completely changing the game every level is absolutely retarded

>>389509810
The shootan and huntan always and always had been filler, since just speedy stages would have made the game anemically short for the time.

That is honestly the problem at the core of every Sonic game, sonic stages are hard to make due to the necessity for large spaces, setpeices, and multiple paths. Even the original games were kind of short for their time. That's why there were so many non-speed stages and adventure fields in Adventure1/2, 06, Unleashed, Colors, and so on. Its endemic to the nature of Sonic, as the need for game longevity got worse and worse.

>>389488106
Unless a competent team is brought on to develop the thing, it's gonna suck. Remember Sonic 4? Classicfags clamored for it for decades, and what was delivered wasn't what was ordered. Until the Classicfags themselves showed that they were capable of putting their money where their mouths were, they didn't get what they were asking for.

But since that's clearly not happening any time soon, you're left with Sonic Team. Forces is what you get when they try to do an Adventure-style story (in terms of plotting and tone). Big shocker, its not the same.

Gameplay-wise, you had Heroes, Shadow, and 06, which all played like ass. More recently, Unleashed tried the whole "hubs + different gameplay styles", but it still sucked. No friends to make up the other gameplay, and Sonic's good gameplay style wasn't even really 3D platforming (it was 3D racing with 3D platforming elements).

For your "Sonic Mania" to happen, they'd have to axe Pontac and Graff for Flynn, and contract GHP Anon to be your programmer and level designer (Lange likely wouldn't touch the game, as he'd want it to be more Classic styled, in both art direction and story), or God help you all the fucks behind Sonic World (which was a fucking mess all its own).

Good luck with all that.

>>389497731
Fuck you kid, I played it on the Dreamcast, and it was the best 3d Sonic game I ever played.

>>389510396
Tonal issues aside Shadow is a competent third person shooter/collectathon,
even if its not fast.

>>389510342
>Colors
Colors at least all plays the same.

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>>389510035
Basically what I'm saying is that for all its flaws SA1 was a very specific type of platformer that I'd love to see done again. Stages like Red Mountain and Sky Deck offered all kinds of interesting platforming & set pieces and there was a lot of variety to the level design in general. A lot of things to do without really altering the core mechanics (I'm talking about the Sonic stages).

SA2 hugely streamlined things and made the levels a lot more simple and "holdforward". There was challenge required in getting all S ranks but that kind of more linear, almost racer-like challenge was arguably perfected by the "daytime Unleashed" style anyway.

As for Heroes

>>389510037
Heroes was held back by the "okay, now stop and kill these enemies or find a hidden button or whatever stupid bullshit" moments and I also felt the world wasn't as interesting or unique as SA1. SA1 had really interesting art direction and design work, a kind of pseudorealism somewhat reminiscent of what the first Donkey Kong Country did; while a lot of Heroes was more generically plasticy super-colorful platform game graphics. I liked the game and find it underrated but it's hardly "SA1 perfected".

>>389510576
The physics engine utterly fucks what good ideas (and they were indeed many) it had. Movement and platforming were inherently shit as a result.

This is of course because of Heroes, which has a very similar physics engine. Which is the result of them making the game multiplatform, forcing them to use Renderware. All because they weren't on their own console.

Were it using SA2's Sonic physics engine, I'd call it a reasonably solid Shoot Em Up/Collect a Thon.

>>389496976
>>>389497095 >>389497113
Metacritic wasn't a common thing there but check the Gamefaqs page for the Dreamcast version https://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/291597-sonic-adventure-2

>>389510685
>no toes
Yes, that is rather interesting.

>>389510679
40% of the game is speed based platforming, 60% ho-hum puzzle platforming, a tepid compromise for the promise of a sonic-only game.

>>389510756
Going into it as a third person shooter made my opinion on it rise a lot, since his movement is actually pretty tight in comparison to those kinds o games.

>>389488106
>There is so much demand
A bunch of vocal guys on /v/ is not a 'demand'. Pretty much nobody wants another Adventure-like game. You are very deluded.

>>389510685
>I also felt the world wasn't as interesting or unique as SA1

I guess this is where opinions differ, because I prefer the Sonic world to be better as a super-colorful platform game. By choosing your upgrades carefully the "kill these enemies" sections can be blased through as a reward for getting level 3 speed or level 3 power, or saving your Team Blast for the hammerguys or the E-3000's. I'm pretty sure you could avoid most of them by taking the right route anyhow.

>>389511283
>a third person shooter
I think as a third person shooter, it's especially trash. There's no vertical aiming with the right analog stick. No excuse.

As a Shoot Em Up, though, I think it works fine. You're just vaguely aiming, and mashing the shoot button. I think Gamma, Tails (SA2), and Eggman's gameplay work well in a similar manner.

The thing that warrants praise, in the case of Shadow, is that it's utterly optional. You can engage in the Shoot Em Up stuff if you want, but it's never forced on you like it is in those games. That adds a layer of replayability while retaining the freedom. Again, a shame it was irrevocably fucked by the physics.

>>389511518
It's been over 12 years since I last played it so maybe I just sucked back then.

>>389498831
>>389500234
>>389506876
Do you retards actually think he's being serious? I can't tell whose worse, the guy who "pretends" to be a retard or the retards who fall for the bait.

>>389511813
It did take a lot to get used to, maybe I was stockholm'd into liking it.