>Video games are ART >Video games are SPORTS Why do gamers

Because people put a lot of effort into crafting the experience. If it's respectable to craft the experience, it's respectable to sincerely appreciate it as well.

>>389243101
I guess sculpting isn't art.

>>389243708
Anything created with the intent of being art is art.
Death of the author applies to this as well. So anything that can be interpreted as art is art.
There's a lot of fucking art around

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>>389243101
Video games are art though. Just like movies are art. Games like Ookami or other games with great art direction. What the fuck do you mean they're "just games"? That makes no sense. That's like saying "movies are just film clips spiced together, can't we leave it at that?" Being part of a medium and being "art" isn't mutually exclusive things. They can be both.

>>389243101
Man children that can't accept how worthless the hobby is.

>>389243101
The only requirement something needs to be art is the desire of the creator for it to be artistic. A living human child can literally be art.

The only requirement for a sport is that it is competitive. Chess is a sport.

the problem is when games try to be art then they end up closer to trying to be movies

>>389244513
Games don't have to have good gameplay.

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>>389244216

I agree games can be art, but not because of they having "artistic direction" in the sense of visuals or music. Game mechanics is what should be judged as worthy of being called art or not. And they might aswell be.

Those toys displayed on the right can mean art too. Specially the blocks and stackable rings, which have a design phylosophy and process behind them that isn't aimed at solving a practical problem but at something as vague as human enjoyment.

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>>389243101
I must say that what you think is art is not art anymore. Go to any "art school" and you'll see for yourself that post-modernist spit on the so so called "white European art".
We chairs now nigga.

>>389243101
So you're saying chess isn't a sport? Poker isn't a sport? You mean to tell me that sports requires you to run, swim, jump etc? No. That's not true.

Video games stopped being "toys" decades ago. If games where STRICTLY for kids then the ESRB wouldn't exist and games like GTA would be niche. The average gamer age is 30+.

>HUURRR, they are just man-children who should grow up.

Yes, everybody should bend over backwards to society. Let society tell you that now that you've lived on this planet for this many years you need to give up on things you think are fun in favor of things WE think you should think are fun. If it weren't for childish adults cartoons wouldn't be a thing anymore. If every one "grew-up" the world would be a more boring place than it already is. But I digress. Toys can be art too. Have you ever seen Lego Land?

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>>389244286
So what is a worth-full hobby?

>>389243101
Games are art. The mechanics of some games are art in themselves. fuck graphics, sorry, characters etc.

>>389244286
You are literally so pathetic that you complain about other peoples' hobbies.
Die in a fire.

>>389243101
Define ART and SPORT you faggot.

>>389244195
Also things created without the intent of being art is art too

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>>389244571
>Games don't have to have good gameplay.

>>389245391
This is one of my hobbies you retarded fuck. I'm just not a faggot trying to turn it into something it's not.

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>>389245484
>turn it into something it's not.
Who the fuck are you to define what games are?

>>389244775
I agree with you 100%. I'm not saying that games with great art direction define art in games. That just makes them artsy. The whole game needs to be looked at. Not just music, art, mechanics individually but the thing as a whole. OP however seemed like he wanted to compare paintings with games and that's why I made that comparison.

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>>389245251
>>389245306
>>389245391
>>389245394
cope harder

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>>389245251
No, chess and poker are not sports. Are you fucking baiting? What's next? Cooking is a sport? Competitive eating is a sport? Fingerpinting is a sport?

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>>389244571
Not they don't but you can't have a GOOD game with BAD gameplay. That's like having a race car with a moped engine. You can still have a bad game with bad gameplay and call it a game. Just no a good game.

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>>389243101
Oh no, the thing I enjoy isn't art! What am I going to do? Oh right, continue to enjoy myself because I don't care when shit like this is considered art nowadays.

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>>389245794
>>389245794
>No, chess and poker are not sports.

>>389243101
i always get triggered when plebs claim that videogames are art because it implies that the artistic side of a video game is more important than the mechanical one (IN A GAME), and we're already seeing this trend in most AAA games to day, where devs spend a ton of money on fancy plots and pretty graphics, while the gameplay remain shallow, easy, and heavily in favor of the player instead of being balanced between the player and the computer.

>>389245670
>Not an argument

Art is meaningless anyway. I don't see why anybody would be proud to call something "art".

>>389245794
Both chess and poker are considered sports though. But sure, I can switch it up. Pool. That's a sport. Golf, and Bowling as well. What makes them more of a sport? You barely move in any of them. So what defines them as sports? I'm not an esports guy but people can't seem to define what a sport is and stay consistent.

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>this thread

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>Walk around the Museum of Modern Art, look at those masterpieces it holds by Picasso and Jackson Pollock, and what you are seeing is a series of personal visions. A work of art is one person's reaction to life. Any definition of art that robs it of this inner response by a human creator is a worthless definition. Art may be made with a paintbrush or selected as a ready-made, but it has to be an act of personal imagination.

>The worlds created by electronic games are more like playgrounds where experience is created by the interaction between a player and a programme. The player cannot claim to impose a personal vision of life on the game, while the creator of the game has ceded that responsibility. No one "owns" the game, so there is no artist, and therefore no work of art.

>This is the essential difference between games and art, and it precedes the digital age. Chess is a great game, but even the finest chess player in the world isn't an artist. He is a chess player. Artistry may have gone into the design of the chess pieces. But the game of chess itself is not art nor does it generate art – it is just a game.

>>389245670
What does this even mean? cope with what?

>>389245615
Who the fuck are you to define what video games are?

>>389243101
sports + art = toys

>>389246597
>construction workers playing Candy Crush

Candy Crush is not considered a "video game" by most people. It's a time-waster. A puzzle. It is acceptable to play on your phone in public for hours at a time, spending hundreds of dollars on microtransactions in dinky Bejeweled clones and other puzzle games. But to play on a portable system like a 3DS/Vita, or a laptop, would be considered socially and publicly unacceptable by most.

I really hate this "middle-aged people play mobile games, so that means video games are widely accepted now!" rhetoric.

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>>389246560
>Both chess and poker are considered sports though.

The fuck? By who? I have nothing but respect for chess players but it is not a sport, it is a game of strategy. Same with pool except pool is also a precision game.

>bowling and golf

These are old person hobbies. Since they take actual effort from weak old people they're treated as athletic endeavors but nobody actually respects them.

>>389246597
Not really, no. It not about approval it's that people can't define art or sport and stay consistent. They say movies are art but when games are more like movies than ever they still aren't considered art for... reasons. They say sport needs physical exercise but things that require minimal amount of movement are still considered sports. But games can't be cos reasons. I mean pro esports players practice more physical exercise than a pro pool player do they not? I wish gaming weren't taken so seriously and we all could just get good games and talk about them but it's a bigger industry than the movie industry and have been for many years. To me, people are free to think what they want as long as they can be consistent with it.

>>389243163
Some toys and table games require a lot of effort to make too, but you don't call them art or sports.

Videogames are art, playing them is not.

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>>389243101
Personally I'm very happy with video games not being considered art by 'the art community', they're a bunch of pretentious faggots and them trying to 'make video games art' is what leads to shit like Gone Home happening.

>take toy blocks
>stack them on top of each other
>art
>throw the toy ball into them
>sports

See, toys can be art and sports.

>>389244776
>im 14 and i kno what contemporary art is gaiz!!!
Fuck off, kid.

>>389245953
>>389247625
see >>389247949

If you can't appreciate Pollock, Rothko, and the art made in their style you are a pleb and have the maturity of a child.

Sonic Mania convinced me a game could be art

>>389247996
Did you have an actual point to make or did you just want to look like a complete retard? If it was the latter you succeeded brilliantly, bravo.

>>389248102
The point is that posting small samples of the contemporary art scene while saying "i dont get it!!!!!1!!!" shows off that you're a teenager and not a very bright one at that

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>>389247996
There being a few exceptions doesn't change the fact that the vast majority are pretentious fags and 'art' as a whole has lost a great deal of worth because of this.

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>>389243101
>video games don't hold up as an artform

You are fucking stupid.

>>389248298
Oh what, and the piles and piles of shitty, derivative, kitsch trash from every other period of art is more valuable? No it is not.

>>389248178
>while saying "i dont get it!!!!!1!!!"
No-one said that but you, you bleeding vagina.

>>389243101
Shut up you ludofundamentalist. Soccer is a game and solitaire is a game, and one of them is perfectly fine being a sport while the other is completely fine not being that.
>just games lol
Go ahead, use your beloved buzzword - "fun". I bet you are nintenbro too.

Casuals/normalfags have an irrational fear of being labeled as losers.

>>389248425
Than the simplistic as fuck 'relly mad me fink' shit we get today? Yes, a million fucking times over. A sculpture or painting without imagination at least still requires time, dedication, passion, and some level of skill, you dumb thot.

>>389247385

>The are old person hobbies

just like basketball and football are black person hobbies

>>389248609
Skill is irrelevant in art. An untrained composer with little training like Mussorgsky can produce works equal or surpassing their contemporaries.

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>>389247568
>but when games are more like movies than ever they still aren't considered art for... reasons.

You wanna know why vidya can never be movies? Versimilitude. I'm not talking about being gritty or slice of life or whatever, I'm talking little things that are inherent in the medium. As long as vidya has things like on-screen prompts, repeating voice lines, and even respawning after death, they can't be like movies. These things take you out of the game experience in ways that only the shittiest movies do.

>>389248708
To be fair many cinematic games do away with text prompts

>>389247949
I didn't meant that contemporary art was the problem, but rather that the "art community" and art schools don't care about "white art" anymore. They dismiss it as mere "representation", which is what the One and Three Chairs jokes about.
t. art history teacher

>>389248694
>An untrained composer like a guy who was a musician his whole life and received two whole years tutelage
Fuck off.

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>>389247385
>The fuck? By who?
There are many great debates whether or not they are. But sports magazines write about both of them. Why would a sports magazine write about something other than sports? There are also big tournaments in both. They also fall under the same "psychical exercise" category as Pool, Golf and Bowling. In other words, sports with with minimal movements. "A game of strategy" as you call it is not mutually exclusive to sports. For fuck sake look at goddamn football.

Pool IS a sport whether you like it or not and calling bowling and golf "old person hobbies" is just stupid and makes no sense. Them being things old people enjoy doesn't make them invalid as sports. They're not mutually exclusive. If you say that GOLF isn't a sport then you have no idea.

>Since they take actual effort from weak old people they're treated as athletic endeavors
Do you need to be strong to play ping pong? No. Then why is ping pong part of the Olympics? THE sports event of the world. Same with Horse riding, sailing and croquet. Golf is also part of the Olympics btw Are you saying that the biggest sports event in the world is ignorant about sports?

>but nobody actually respects them.
Riiiiiight. Nice narrative you got going on there.

Games are art.
This post is art.
Art is anything done with artistic intent whose inherent qualities can't be disassembled or rearranged.
This thread is stupid and OP is stupid too. So is everyone agreeing with him.

>>389248990
White art meaning European art?
>>389249036
Being a musician with private tutoring and a rigorous education in Theory like Mozart, Mendelssohn, etc. had is not the same as Mussorgsky's training and you can hear it in his clunky but affectinmusic

>>389248487
>nine Todd liar is filtered to nintenbro
Why am i not surprised?

>>389248379
>that list
Yep. They don't.

>>389243101
Videogames are sports in the same way driving or playing chess are. No fucking sports.

>>389249158
>White art meaning European art?
Yes.
You don't know how fucked up art schools are.

>>389249158
>He received no training, which proves skill doesn't matter
>Okay he only received a little training
>Okay he did receive training but not as much as the best people got, also you can clearly notice how his training wasn't as extensive as theirs in his music

So skill does matter. Thanks for clarifying, dipshit.

>>389248708
I'm NOT saying games ARE or SHOULD BE movies. I'm saying games have evolved to the point where many popular games play-out like movies. Games CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be movies. They should be games. But we're at the level where if we removed the button prompts entirely, we could fool someone who doesn't know about games into thinking a game is a movie. Is it just because games have button prompts that they aren't considered art?

>>389249349
European art, in the classical tradition, is pretty much a dead form. Speaking from my perspective which is music, the path of Debussy->Schoenberg->Webern->Boulez->Stockhausen was a dead end of complexity. All art today is globalistic because cultures are too entwined with each other.

Raw, Classical art is simply boring and has nothing new to say.

>>389249386
OK well I wanted to pick Mussorgsky since he wasn't from the 20thCentury and you wouldn't have a fucking autist heart attack but how about Ives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkaOz48cq2g

Or how about Moondog?

>>389249506
It's still art, even if I agree with you being boring now.

>>389243101
Video games are comprised of most forms of art.
SOME video games can be competitive and fun to watch played competitively.
Hope this helped OP.

so in summary

video game are not art /v/ btfo

>>389243163
You realize those toys are technically a form of art as well? If we're assuming they're handmade and not manufactured in china. It still took a designer to plan out the visual elements of the toy and unify those elements into a sensible object fit for play.

>>389243101
The guy is fucking playing dota with a controller. Wait nvm that's a streamer. Wtf.

>>389247578
>but you don't call them art
Says who? Why is a well designed toy not art? It had be modeled and designed did it not? It's a moving sculpture.

Art is such a broad and subjective term you can call anything art, and plenty of games can be argued to be art. The only reason to look down on people making that statement is that videogames, next to novels, have some of the worst writing on average, but unlike novels, even these awful stories in videogames are praised to the high heavens despite being so bad. Just look at games like Life is Strange, that get praised for their story despite being on the level of a dime-a-dozen young adult novel, maybe even worse than that, and it doesn't even make use of the medium to tell its story on top of it. Or look at TLOU which is treated like the holy grail for writing in vidoegames, and while it's a fine story, it's really nothing special. A lot of people who play videogames just seem to have low standards for these things and a lot of the things they praise as art just seem shallow and soulless, which, as far as I'm concerned, makes them not art.

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>>389249217
all consolewar terms are filtered you inbred newfag

>>389248425
No. Much like art video games are a sea of shit with a few diamonds in the rough. Does the sea of shit invalidate the artistic integrity of real craftsman who put effort and passion into their work? I don't believe so.

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>>389243101
>movies, music and animation not in the art category
>tennis, football and chess not in the sports category
shit list

>>389243101
Yes video games are art.

>>389243101
Sports have the primary purpose of competition.
Art has the primary purpose of expression.
Toys have a primary purpose of exploration of the physical world.

Video games can be any of these.

>>389249562
Charles Ives was raised by a bandleader who taught him about music, both the playing of instruments and musical theory, since he was young. Moondog had a fucking scholarship.

>>389250148
A toy is an object for a child to play with. Aka video games.

>>389249767
If you want replies just ask for them.

>>389250538

Every age group has toys you retard

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This is a toy. Say something nice to it.

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>>389243101
>video games have music, 3d modelling, concept art and room design and bla bla bla so it's the highest art form
Fuck I hate this reddit opinion. Most manchild thing I have ever heard.
>It's also a sport!
Okay nerds nothing wrong with saying you like video games don't need to be such pretentious wankers to justify yourself it's okay.

Why does it matter whether vidya is art or not?

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>>389249054
>There are many great debates whether or not they are. But sports magazines write about both of them. Why would a sports magazine write about something other than sports? There are also big tournaments in both.

Debate over something doesn't make it reality. There's debate over whether vaccines cause autism, too. Magazines are a dying medium and do not represent the views of a community or even authorities on the subject. In theory you can have a huge tournament over who can take the biggest dump, so that's not relevant either.

>They also fall under the same "psychical exercise" category as Pool, Golf and Bowling.

Since you really want to play this card, there have been tons of deaths through overexertion in golf. How many chess-related heart attacks have there been? Golf absolutely sucks and is barely an athletic activity, but even it outstrips chess and fucking poker in terms of physicality.

>Do you need to be strong to play ping pong?
No, but you need to be fast and precise and have some stamina. Either way, if you don't think the average old fart would get winded playing an intense table tennis game, you give them too much credit.

>Same with Horse riding, sailing and croquet
Sailing and equestrian shit take actual muscle strength and endurance. Especially sailing, those guys are tough.

>croquet
This IS fucking bait! I knew it!

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>>389244286
2/10 made me reply

>>389244195
>>389245463
basically art is whatever someone says is art

>>389245882
>>389245482
Metal Gear Solid games have bad gameplay but are great games for their story and characters.