How am I supposed to judge games? By fun, immersion, depth, or

By facts. You always judge a game by facts. In particular facts you find that improved the game. Taking OOT for example, you could say something like:

>even for its time it had a sizable overworld
>it was a real departure for Zelda
>it had colorful, vibrant backgrounds
>it had horseback riding game mechanics that would be emulated to this day because of how well they were made
>when you got to know the game mechanics, you could break it open more than Super Metroid what with bomb hovers and reverse momentum tricks

You can always fall back on the "it's fun" defense, but to convince someone else of why you like it, some explanation is necessary.

>>388816118
But why is a large overworld good? Why do backgrounds matter? Why does being influential make it good? Why is complex mechanics good?

Consensus is all that matters, and consensus depends entirely on time of release. Zelda is a good game because, at the time of release, a vast majority of people liked it compared to those who didn't. Were it to be released today as-is, a vast majority of people would dislike it compared to those who did.

I challenge you to find me one game that was adored in its day that was truly bad when it came out (as in, not only did it age poorly, but it was never good--don't even try bringing up Sonic, Mania proved that wrong by only tweaking very minor things from the originals) or a game that was hated in its day that was truly good all along.

>>388816594
>I challenge you to find me one game that was adored in its day that was truly bad when it came out
Bioshock Infinite
All 3D Zeldas

>>388816712
Neither of these are bad games, you just dislike them

You will never find a game like Ninjabread man receiving widespread praise and appeal, because by virtue of being a large community, the video game community sifts through dogshit easily. Even games you hate are good (Skyrim, for example).

>>388816849
How do you know a game is good just because a bunch of people like it? What connection is there between people liking a game and it being good? What if a game is liked 50/50? Do you apply this to all other art forms as well?

>>388816975
If it was bad no one would like it. It's bad because it doesn't fit the tastes of the general audience, which is its intention.
>art forms
Video games are a product first. Same with mainstream movies and TV.

OOT is above all a product and if the majority do not like a product, that product is bad

>>388817139
Except many games are not made with the intention of fitting the taste of a general audience.

>>388817198
Yes they are. Almost all video games are made with the intention of selling to a massive audience. Pretty much every game you like is exactly that.

Art games are the kind of games you and this board love to shit on all the time.

>>388815746
I judge them based on what they're trying to be. First, you gotta ask myself what the game is trying to achieve and what it's trying to be. If it accomplished its goal, how did it? If it failed, why?

>>388817397
What if it's trying to be bad? Is it bad, then? Or good, because it was trying to be bad?

How do you know what it's trying to be? What if the creator hasn't said anything about what the game's goal is?

>>388816419
Who says it is good? What's "good" isn't a fact.

>>388816419
You have to work your way up to those large abstractions.

Fundamentally, a game succeeds when it creates enjoyment: what most people identify as fun. Now, that's still too broad of a measurement, so you have to go one level of analysis deeper and see what goals a game has and achieves in order to create enjoyment. This is usually where things like genre come into play.

OoT is a little blurry on the genres, but for arguments sake, let's call it a 3D, 3rd person, action-adventure story-driven game ( this gives us some room to work in ). Games in this genre area have a few obvious goals which directly influence the level of enjoyment produced. Having a big overworld lends itself to the adventure aspect, looking nice and vibrant pairs well with the new 3D format and the 3rd person aspect, having good engaging mechanics ( liek horse riding ) improves the overall sense of action, etc etc I could continue.

If you want to evaluate a game, you should look at the goals, expectations, and rules it creates for itself, and see how well it meets them. After that, you can start comparing it to other similar games.

>>388816975
Games being an art form is such a meme.

Parts can be artistic in nature, like the score or the writing or the design/modeling, but a game is just a sum of those parts. It's a product for enjoyment, a medium for art but not art itself.

>>388816849
Skyrim is not a good game when compared to oblivion. Why is it cherished more?

While I will disagree with the statement that any Zelda game is bad, I won't entirely disagree with the former.

In general, I've heard good things about the Bioshock franchise, but Infinite seems to be where it procured the bulk of it's fan base, who had at the time, and mostly to this day, hail it as a great achievement in video game history. The problem was that some reviewers were giving it high praise right off the bat, the same way a lot of people did when Force Unleashed debuted. But thankfully there were critics out there to point out it's flaws.

Infinite didn't have that luxury. Instead there was group think. Other reviewers followed suit in fear of losing viewers over opinions that differed from the more popular editors and Youtube channels. There had to be some legitimate shilling there too. Whatever the case, this game is not a 10/10 GOTY, base on actual, unbiased, critical reviews I have read of it. The problem is, writers on sites like IGN, and many Youtube reviewers never go back and play the game over, strictly for the sake of second analysis, so even after the dust has settled, they are content with the score they originally gave.

>>388817921
Why? Couldn't you say the same for any hybrid medium or any medium that could be broken down into pieces? Are movies just a medium for image art and audio art? Is music just a medium for violent+vocal+piano+... art?

If you want a way to compare games in general there are a few criteria that apply to almost every genre.
Depth. Does the game get repetitive? Are there enough mechanics in the game to keep it varied for the average length of a playthrough?
Flow. Does the game keep you engaged through gameplay, plot, or art direction? Is it easy to pick up and put down? Can you come back to it after a while and easily return to playing? Do cutscenes help or hurt the pace of the game?
Replayability. Can you spend a lot of time on the game? Is it long? Is there a reason to start a new playthrough? Is it random in some way?
Art Direction. Is it appealing? Does it play well with the limitations of the hardware?
Sound Design. Is it appealing? Does it suit the soundchip?
Performance. Are there frame drops? Load times? Bugs or glitches?
Price. Is it as cheap as a chocolate bar or is it 80 dollars plus a 30 dollar season pass?

You can also compare by genre, to make it easier. But those criteria would allow you to rate Tetris against Overwatch and Sonic Mania.

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>>388815746
Depends on the lens you choose to view the game through. However, you can't even have a lens to view a game through if you don't even have proper definitions. Let's say we're viewing the game through the lens of "gameplay" what should we do?

Well, first we have to define gameplay. The definition for gameplay that makes the most sense to me is "decision making" which is vague on it's own. Okay, let's define what a decision is.

A decision is a choice the player makes where their knowledge of an outcome in their favor is right in the middle of "completely unknown" to "absolutely certain". What does this mean exactly?

If the outcome of their decision is completely unknown the player's choice essentially means nothing. This can happen when the player has no knowledge of mechanics (be they poorly explained or ignorance) or something is completely random.

On the flip side, absolutely certain means there's no real choice to be made. Choosing between a weapon that gives you +5 ATK and one that gives you +50 ATK isn't a choice at all. The +50 ATK one is clearly superior, there's absolutely no reason to choose otherwise whenever you have the opportunity to use the +50. These non-choices commonly happen in very poorly balanced games or even when the player is presented with an enemy with a weakness to exploit.

Once you've fought one Deku Shrub the Deku Shrub is solved for you. You're just going to use the solution every time with no choices made every encounter. You might be drawn to trying to explore other solutions such as using different items but you're doing this because you're bored of using the same solution over and over again, not because the encounter is challenging enough to force you to make a decision.

If you're judging a game through this "gameplay" lens the more decisions the game gives you the better it is and the more often it puts you in non-decision solved situations or no player agency due to randomness/unexplained mechanics the worse it is

>>388817139
Most mainstream radio is generic fodder with terrible lyrical content and no artistic value. Many professional musicians and scholars prove it with science and statistics. But yet every kid in school is playing that hot new rap track by DJ Fat Bluntz, titled "I smoke my fat blunts from a phat azz"

This can literally be translated video games and their target audience. Is music can be utter shit, generic mainstream garbage, but still be liked by the general public, then how do they even know that the game they like is good?

>>388816118
Yes, but the "big" overworld sucks anyway cause you can't do shit on hyrule field unless you have Epona, otherwise travel is very annoying.

>all that reddit spacing

>>388815746
stop overthinking things, you fucking retard

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>>388818946

>>388815746
- Cinema-like experience / immersion
- Gameplay
- Graphics

Of course sound, lenght, replay value and other things also matter, but the 3 above are the most important.

>>388816594
>Consensus is all that matters
>>>reddit

>>388815746
I like to think the criteria goes something like this.
1. Was it fun to you?
2. How revolutionary was for its time?
3. Does it bring something unique or interesting?
4. What are the game biggest problems?

At least that's what I would take into account.