Is this the hardest 3D Mario game? Is that why critics didn't

The hub and dungeons were poorly designed.

>>388778213
Fucking how, they were the best part

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>Seven worlds and Gelato and Sirena have almost no verticality to them
>Most limited move set
>Least amount of platforming in a 3D Mario
>Progress is tied to Shadow Mario levels opposed to actual Shine count
>Every level is THAT level (Chuckster, Pachinko, poison river, Corona mountain boat, cleaning Sirena beach, cleaning the eel's teeth, popping balloons)
People don't like it because it's garbage.

>>388778427
Red Coin shines are not filler.

>>388778009
maybe, but hard =/= good, well designed challenge

>>388778009
it's hardest in the sense that it has the most bullshit stupid objectives out of any 3D Mario game, but rarely do those have anything to do with actual platforming

I should make some webms from the Giant Bomb gameplay.
That would show you the average hater's competence at video games

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>>388778914
Like this one?

>>388778427
>Seven worlds and Gelato and Sirena have almost no verticality to them
And? Tick Tock Clock in SM64 has almost no horizontal design to it, but nobody complains about that. Besides, most of the content in Sirena Beach happens inside the hotel, which has verticality to it.

>Most limited move set
>Least amount of platforming in a 3D Mario
>Every level is THAT level (Chuckster, Pachinko, poison river, Corona mountain boat, cleaning Sirena beach, cleaning the eel's teeth, popping balloons)
(Not true, by the way)

>Progress is tied to Shadow Mario levels opposed to actual Shine count
Good, fuck collectathon shit.

>>388779075
>sunshinefags will defend this

>>388778213
and the bowser fight was the most cringe worthy battle ive ever seen

why is /v/ full of gamecube babies

>>388779610
>Doesn't even attempt to use the hover nozzle at any point after he walks off the pin
>Switches to the regular nozzle for no reason as he's falling
>Presses L to change the camera near the bottom, making the camera seem worse than it actually is
He's shit at the game.

>>388779895
>makes the logical decision to walk down from the pin he landed on
>expects to be naturally led down to the star by the slope below him
>it nonsensically throws him across the the stage, resulting in his death
how is it anything but the game's fault?

>>388778009
Its the hardest game for the wrong reasons: Poorly designed levels.

Seriosuly, this game has at least a dozen THAT levels.

The sandbird, the lilypad river, the pachinko game, fucking corona mountain etc

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>>388778009
For me, the fact that it's 30 fps just ruins it. I remember playing it for the first time way back when and the first thing I immediately noticed was how much more clunky and less smooth it was than 64. Stupid fucking galaxy fags keep wanting HD remasters when Sunshine is the most deserving. If they just bumped the FPS and fixed/tweaked some of the shittier aspects of the game it would stand tall with the rest.

>>388780457
64 also runs at 30fps with slowdown

Movement is great, but it's just so boring. Unless you're going to 100% the game, there is no point on doing anything other than the main missions because not every shrine actually progresses you. Meaning that 100 coin shrines, blue coins, shrines you find on the hub world, 8th level shrines, are all just time wasters. Compared to Mario 64 where you could be rewarded by picking and choosing what worlds you wanted to play.

>>388780534
Huh. Well fuck me. Just looked it up and you're right. I haven't played 64 in like 10 years so my memory of it is a bit shit. Guess I retract what I said about the FPS, but still, I stand by that Sunshine felt clunkier.

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>>388778213
>dungeons
what?

>>388779075
Lmao he literally jumped after he landed. If he didn't press anything he would have fallen into the star.

>>388780741
And whens the last time you played sunshine?

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>>388778009
They don't know how to use the fludd efficiently so they run around spending 4 minutes on what should be a 20 second task

>>388782236
a chore is still a chore no matter how long you take to do it, though

>the most infamous parts the game are a result of weird physics, gimmicks, or FLUDD controlling something instead of actual platforming


really makes you think

>>388782342
>playing video games is a chore
Well you should probably find a different hobby.

>>388782525
cleaning up goop is a chore, platforming is not.
unfortunately sunshine is severely lacking in the platforming department.

>>388778009
Worst 3D Mario

>>388782663
>if the game isn't exactly how I want it it's a chore
Video games might not be for you.

>>388782767
>I'll keep eating whatever shit a game throws at me even if it's garbage!
cool to know the gamecube was your first console

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>240 blue coins

why was this allowed

>>388783009
>If the game isn't exactly how I want it's garbage
Video games probably aren't for you.

>>388783084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT5Fg_sxQ5c

All the sunshine haters need to watch this vid. It permanently BTFO'S ANY "arguments" they might have.

>>388778009
It is definetly the most flawed of the mainline mario games, still good tho

SMG2 for life baybay (actually harder than sunshine)

The toughest enemy in the game was the physics engine.

>>388778009
no, they don't like it because it's a shit game

>>388783264
stop shilling your shitty youtube reviews channel, autist

>>388783437
>thinking someone with over 10k subs would come to /v/ to shill
Epic. Also nice attempt at trying to avoid getting your "arguments" btfo'd. All sunshine haters are just 12 year old redditors just trying to fit in.

>>388783625
says the person who linked an autistic sonic fan's youtube video instead of making an argument for himself

>>388783845
His arguments mirror mine. It's a great game, redditor.

>>388783945
actually it's a garbage game with awful design that can only be appreciated by people with low standards such as yourself

>>388784113
>It's bad because I say so! I also won't listen to any opposing arguments
Proving the 12y/o redditor stereotype true.

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Can someone explain why there has been a massive influx of Sunshine apologists lately? There were two threads defending it yesterday and now this.

>>388784234
people thought the sun went away during the eclipse and are now trying to appease it in fear of it leaving forever

>>388784234
half the people who post on /v/ are gamecube babies who don't know any better

>>388784234
Literally the only "argument" sunshine haters have is, "MUH COINS WAAAAH".

>>388784361
>>388784375
See? No arguments. Just 12 year old redditors just trying to fit in by repeating what they've heard on /v/.

>>388784234
I feel like it started a few years ago. It just means the people who grew up with the game started posting here.

>>388784468
Refer to >>388778427, everything in that post as well as the image is perfectly valid. For a game that belongs to a platforming series Sunshine loves wasting your time with stuff like rolling watermelons or giving Chain Chomps a bath.

>>388784234
I think people are replaying the 3D Marios in anticipation of Odyssey.

>>388784234
I have no idea the game is meh as hell

and >>388779386
btfo's >>388784638

Sunshine haters BTFO'D!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT5Fg_sxQ5c

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>>388784234
gamecube nostalgia and falseflagging is now at a high. It was eventually gonna happen sooner or later.

>>388784468
Here are some arguments for you.
>despite having very solid core movement mechanics, practically none of the stages are designed to facilitate interesting platforming opportunities
>this is mostly because they're designed around the use of FLUDD, who is a poor addition to Mario's moveset
>most platforms are spaced out so that the player is forced to use the hover nozzle, which instantly kills any momentum Mario may have built up
>other times the player is forced to stop in their tracks to clean messes or interact with water-sensitive obstacles, which also ruins the pacing
>you're forced to approach stages in a mission structure, removing one of the core appeals of Mario 64's more open-ended design
>most of the missions range from uninspired to aggressively awful in design, and plenty are recycled over the course of the game despite there being fewer stages overall compared to 64
>the only great missions in the game remove FLUDD entirely, exposing a potential for 3D Mario design that would later be capitalized on in future entries
>finally, blue coins are just lazy padding in a game that's already padded out the ass

>>388784638
>it's not platforming if I'm not jumping every 2 seconds!

If I wanted that I could just play the linear Galaxy games. Exploratory games like 64 and Sunshine need stuff to mix up the gameplay

>>388784234
You say that as if there was any consensus on /v/ that Sunshine was bad.

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Why do people hate blue coins so much?

>>388785330
>every single time you find one a prompt comes up asking if you want to save
>after you find the obvious ones, to find the rest you have to spray every inch of the levels unless you use a guide.
>don't actually progress your game. Blue coins and the shrines you get from them are just there to increase the number of shrines

>>388785330
they're low effort from a design perspective and unengaging from a player perspective. they only exist to fill out sunshine sparse star count to be more comparable to 64.

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>>388785592
>>388785703
You forgot the most egregious flaw with them: Some are level exclusive and you have no way of knowing which levels have which coins.

>>388785330
>spray at random shit in a huge ass level
>receive coin

hmmmm

I used a guide for that shit

>>388785840
>Make yoshi eat bees
>get blue coin

How the fuck did they expect you to know that shit?

>>388785095
>practically none of the stages are designed to facilitate interesting platforming opportunities
Over generalization with no specific examples going through in depth why each levels don't fit the game, next.
>who is a poor addition to Mario's moveset
That's an opinion, next.
>most platforms are spaced out so that the player is forced to use the hover nozzle, which instantly kills any momentum Mario may have built up
The hovernozzle is a core gameplay element, next.
>which also ruins the pacing
Another opinion, next.
>you're forced to approach stages in a mission structure, removing one of the core appeals of Mario 64's more open-ended design
And to trade off sunshine has more open ended level design allowing many different ways to collect stars and coins.
>most of the missions range from uninspired to aggressively awful in design
Over generalization with no specific examples going through in depth why each levels don't fit the game, next.
>being fewer stages overall compared to 64
That is true.
>the only great missions in the game remove FLUDD entirely
Once again another opinion, next.
>finally, blue coins are just lazy padding in a game that's already padded out the ass
Padded out the ass? You don't even know what you're talking about lmao. You just need to complete the 7 levels of every stage to win.

Literally like I said, 12 y/o redditors parroting opinions of games they've never played trying to fit in. Pathetic.

>>388785992
Not him but please enlighten me on this level is a good inclusion in a platformer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHba5iM1Zw

>>388785920
Yeah, it's super arbitrary.
It was kinda fun to collect them with a guide though. I was completing the game with a friend and we would tell each other how many blue coins there are in a level or give vague hints about the missing ones.

>>388785330
A good number of coins are in the most ridiculous spots, there is no way you would ever find them other then dumb luck. It doesn't help that some coins are episode specific, making the hunt much more aggravating.

It wouldn't have been a bad thing if they told you how many coins were hidden in each world and how many were in each episode, but they didn't so unless you have a guide you are going to be aimlessly searching until you do something stupid and it just works for no reason.

Like the coin hidden in the slot machine in Serina that you have to groundpound, why is that there? Why would I just decide to ground pound on something that can't be interacted with?

Or the coin where you have to spray the moon on the third episode in Pianta Village, just some stupid weird hiding spot that you would never even think of because why the fuck would just decide to start spraying water at the moon that can't reach? Just something you get with pure dumb luck.

>>388786138
Who said it was a platformer? It's an puzzle game with action and platforming elements.

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>>388786160
>The one where you have to spray a random torch outside Sirena Hotel

>>388786160
>having played ocarina of time
>not shooting projectiles at every sun/moon/planet you ever see

>>388786156
The biggest mistake with the Blue Coins was not adding a little checklist to tell you "hey, there's 2 coins in THIS SPECIFIC MISSION" because some of them were locked to SPECIFIC MISSIONS.

Recently pirated it. Is the analog trigger absolutely needed or can I use a standard controller to complete the game?

>>388786819
You can use a standard controller.

>>388786265
>Who said it was a platformer?
It's a mainline Mario game, what else would it be?

>>388785992
>Over generalization with no specific examples going through in depth why each levels don't fit the game, next.
Consider Pianta Village, for example. The village itself is mostly flat, with only a few minor raised platforms and wide-ass trees that are near impossible to fall from. The mushrooms underneath the village are where the core platforming should reside, but only three missions actually require you to go down there and the mushrooms are so spaced out that you're forced to use the hover nozzle, which robs the movement system of its potential.
>That's an opinion, next.
I support the opinion in the next statement.
>The hovernozzle is a core gameplay element, next.
A poor one, as I explained.
>Another opinion, next.
I suppose you could enjoy the stop-and-go pace of sunshine, but it doesn't support the momentum-fueled core movement mechanics that are at the heart of the game.
>And to trade off sunshine has more open ended level design allowing many different ways to collect stars and coins.
64 had this as well, in more ways than Sunshine actually since the design is more accommodating for movement options instead of forcing you into FLUDD so often.
>Over generalization with no specific examples going through in depth why each levels don't fit the game, next.
As I mentioned before, Pianta Village is a good example that highlights how few missions actually require any sort of precision platforming. Unfortunately it's secret stage is the aggressively shit one, though, since it relies on gimmicky chucksters that is shoddy design at best.
>That is true.
Glad you agree.
>Once again another opinion, next.
I think I've already supported this opinion well enough by now.
>Padded out the ass? You don't even know what you're talking about lmao. You just need to complete the 7 levels of every stage to win.
And at least one of those levels is recycled in every world. How is that not padding?

>>388787032
that doesn't mean its obligated to be exactly like its predecessor.

>>388786582
this was the worst part of all. fucking noki bay.

>>388786265
This is the dumbest shit I've read on this site.

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>>388778213
>dungeons

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>>388787190
I'd say Gelato is the worst level, it's just three horizontal planes slapped together (pic related).

If I had to rank the levels I'd go: Ricco > Bianco > Pinna > Noki >>> Pianta >>> Sirena > Gelato

>>388778681
Blue coin shines are

>>388787430
I'd agree that Ricco is probably the best stage in the game. The rafters at the top make for some of the best platforming opportunities outside of secret levels. Too bad about those blooper race stages and the shitty yoshi bit, though.

>>388786408
you can beat OoT without fire arrows. I didn't even know they were in the game until 2008.

>>388785130
64 didn't have any of that bullshit.

>>388787430
Noki is easily the best level. that atmosphere, that bottle red coin mission, the music, the secret level. all perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFQr8KQXEg8

>>388787618
Yeah the Shine where you need to get to the cage in the middle that takes you from top to bottom is probably the best non FLUDless episode in the whole game, it makes great use of the verticality of the stage.

That Yoshi stage is unforgivable though because you spend most your time ground pounding to get a Guava and then if you fall in the water you have to do it all over again.

>>388787807
>that fucking yoshi stage
>spend all that time lalalala'ing the puffer fish things to make platfroms
>get to the end
>just slightly too short.
>jump off yoshi
>i find out after i need him to get rid of the yellow shit on the cage
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>388787759
>slides
>picking up penguins and delivering it to its mom
>Koopa the Quick

Probably some other stuff im missing but 64 def had stufff that had little platforming involved

Sunshine was my first Mario game I've ever played.

>blue coins are filler and are more or less the equivalent of 3 entire levels filled with shines that could have been there
>blue coins are worthless for getting shines unless you go for 100%, which nets a shitty reward
>blue coins are in absurd spots, requiring you to do shit like shoot at the moon and spray some random door for them
>blue coins are also mission specific
>numerous unfun levels like river ganges sim/pachinko/anything with a boat
>you fight giant blooper like 4 times and Goop Pirahna about 7-8 times, each fight is the same except for once or twice where you have to shoot the goop pirahna more
>yoshi dies instantly if it so much as sees water
>"DUDE TROPICAL ISLAND" is a shitty video game setting
>have to chase shadow mario in every single level to get inside Corona Mountain, all of which play out the same
>between blue coins and hidden shines you're encouraged to drench everything in the game hoping that it'll get you something
>Bowser is a pretty lame fight

>>388787765
Noki is pretty good but a reused Monty Mole fight, a reused Blooper fight, dentist time with an eel and that dreadful Red Coin fish sour it for me.

I might put it ahead of Pinna but Ricco and Bianco are a lot more fun for me. Noki has the best Secret of stage though.

>>388788031
Those are all pretty valid complaints but i still contest that its a fun game to casually go through if you dont intend on collecting everything.

>>388788102
see i don't mind the blooper fight being reused since it was in a different area and it came as a shock when you fought him. whereas in the ricco level they literally just move him like a hundred feet to the right of where you first fought him.

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What's with all the Sunshine threads popping up lately? Is this to generate pre-hype for Odyssey?

>>388787923
>lalala'ing
that's what I'm calling it from now on, kek

this game has fantastic music and surprisingly good graphics for its time, but the reused bosses and blue coins sour an otherwise fun experience.

>>388783264
>48 fucking minutes
I love in-depth looks at video games, but really, the 25 minute mark is where it starts to go from interesting to mundane.

>>388786138
Not him but
>Picks a mission that doesn't have any platforming to showcase the lack of platforming

>>388787659
i'm not even mad, that's just impressive

>>388778009
>Critics didn't like it
It got a 92% on metacritic
>>388778213
>dungeons
...
>>388778329
>The dungeons were the best part
WHAT
>>388778427
>The cherry picking has begun.

Welp, in three replies the thread died.

>>388778009
>92/100 Metacritic score
>Critics didn't like it
?que?

>>388780457
There's just something about the Mario 64 controls, I think it's more than the framerate. To this day I have not played a 3D platformer with tighter controls. The Sunshine controls aren't floaty by any means but they're not perfect like the 64 controls. Granted, I have not actually played with an actual N64 controller in more than a decade so maybe it averages out (using gamecube controller adapter for 64).

>>388778009
>any platformer with a hover mechanic
>hard
Hover nozzle makes any kind of serious platforming a non-issue. FLUDDless levels are the only thing close tto being difficult and that's barely a fraction of the game.

>>388786819
Having the analog trigger lets you spray while moving IIRC, but otherwise you don't do anything with it.

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Thoughts on the Mario Odyssey?

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>>388789234
At least post good footage.

>>388778009
I liked that the non platforming shines actually built upon the world instead of us just having more soulless 'jump on random shit to win' stuff.

>>388789234
>>388789302
cautiously optimistic. I'm more of a fan of the linear mario games, but odyssey does look like it will have some cool platforming opportunities in it.

>>388780147
>ignoring the fact that it was still within his power to take control of the situation and prevent it

>>388783320
sunshine is still the hardest. SMG2 is by far the easiest game. not a single hard star until the very end. that game's difficulty is so overrated.

>>388789526
the fact that the situation existed in the first place is what's wrong

>>388789536
It's definitely a harder game than the first Galaxy or 64. 3D World also gets pretty tuff towards the end

>>388789451
I just hope they keep all the variety that was present in the Galaxy games, in terms of moment to moment gameplay no game has come close to how frequently those two games mixed things up.

>>388789536
Bait.

>>388789647
>3D World also gets pretty tuff towards the end
people tend to understate this since the beginning is so easy and you're likely to build up enough lives to last you until champion's road, but the post-game stages in 3D World are honestly the toughest 3D Mario platforming has ever been while still being fair.

>>388787430
It's probably 3 horizontal planes slapped together because the level is part of a cohesive world and isn't some extra dimensional voidzone where gravity is out of whack and parts of it are randomly floating in the air. for what sunshine's overall world and theme is, gelato beach is fine and fits, even if it lacks from a gameplay perspective. If sunshine was 100% pure gameplay from the ground up it would have 0 charm and not be nearly as replayed as much as it already is despite its flaws, and have nothing memorable about it

>>388787430
...anon, tell me what the fuck you expected from a beach level on a game that takes place on a tropical island

sunshine is an adventure game with platforming elements, only retards think it was meant to be a pure platformer

>>388789961
I skipped the Wii U but is the final level harder than The Perfect Run from Galaxy 2 because that was really challenging but so satisfying to finally get.
Really hope 3D World gets ported so I can play it, only mainline Mario I haven't gotten around to.

>>388783264
>shits on star road
and he went too far. also what the fuck is he talking about that sunshine has the best "Feel good movement, better than 64"

>>388790064
something has gone wrong if a platformer prioritizes level theming over interesting stage design

>>388787971
>forgetting the out of place boss fights which only had platforming that was already there in the level that you have to do anyway to get around to anything

Also sunshine didn't have a rabbit for you to catch.

>>388789647
>>388789794
no way. i mean, can you even name hard stars in galaxy 2? i can only think of that clockwork level that stands out as being hard.

>>388778009
bad game design does not mean the critics hated it because it was hard
the pachinko level and the "reward" for getting all the stars are both fucking awful

>>388789030
the goalposts have moved up pretty far recently anon, anything below 95 is shit, havent you already seen how hard games below 90 get slammed?

>>388790203
>I skipped the Wii U but is the final level harder than The Perfect Run from Galaxy 2 because that was really challenging but so satisfying to finally get.
Champion's Road is far more difficult and isn't as reliant on powerups as Grandmaster Galaxy. It's the peak of obstacle course 3D Mario level design.

>>388790432
Just off the top of my head, fun level too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtvH9sm56Jw

>>388790342
How the fuck can you look at Sunshine and think it's a pure platformer? Do you give the same critique to fucking jak and daxter which people also call a 'platformer'? Sunshine stepped away from the formula to do something unique while remaining familiar.

>>388790765
I look at its extremely tight and polished movement mechanics and think that it should have been more of a platformer.

>>388790680
yeah this level was fun. too bad it was one of only two original levels in a bonus world. every other level was rehashed from galaxy or 64 or sunshine. the biggest let down in this game, besides 120 easy as fuck green stars. galaxy 1 felt bigger despite only having 121 stars.

>>388790342
sunshine's as much a platformer as dream team is

>>388787971
>slides
Still gameplay, and short but sweet at that
>penguin
Literally all platforming, the whole point is to get you to explore the stage and learn how to get back to the start (since the previous two stars only made you slide to the bottom)

>koopa the quick
A platforming race.

Not random watermelon rolling, durian basketball, time wasting tediousness

>>388790965
no wonder fans of the series hate it

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No game has made me go 'what were they thinking' more than this one.

>>388791445
My favorite mission to skip. I would never fucking dream of playing sunshine 100% but damn if I wouldn't replay it plenty of times.

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>>388791445

What about this shit?

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>>388792042

>>388792150
woah
neat