We can all agree that EU is superior to CK, right? Sure dynasties

t. Merlin

>>388720332
I can't get into EU with its arbitrary political limitations and pure RNG being able to fuck you over

>>388720332
I've never liked EUIV, but to be fair, I'm too dumb for it.

I prefer CK and HoI4, since they're both a lot easier.

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>>388720332
>200,000 men killed for some small piece of shit land and in five years you'll do it again
You're actually unironically praising map painting as why EU is better.

The real answer is victoria 2.

EU4 is better than CK2 most of the time.
If you can roleplay really hard CK2 edges out. Though CK2 is incredibly simple by comparison. And that's next to incredibly simple EU4.

Vicky 2 is pretty good, despite its flaws. HoI3 a really good platform but OOB micromanagement autism makes it a bit shit.

Best game is probably EU3.
It also has the best soundtrack by fucking miles.

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>>388721276
Actualy the real answer is East vs West

>It takes 12 dlc minimum for a paradox to create an actualized full enjoyable game

When can we get some competition in the genre who don't want my money so badly.

>>388721383
Pretty much this, I would also rank EU3 the highest, followed by Vicky 2.

>>388721385
Literally damaged

>>388721457
Too bad Vicky 2 has that retarded uncivilized shit that makes 3/4 of the countries unplayable and the shitty bad boi system.

>>388721567
If I was on my desktop I would be posting some glorious end game screens of my recent civilized persia.

>>388721276
>getting 10% of your population killed to get that tiny shit ass island as your colony
>world war starts to give fucking Abkhazia freedom

>>388721567
>too retard to civilize

Nigger please. However, your are somewhat right. The only fun unciv countries are:

China
Egypt
Sokoto/Mali/Bambara
Ethiopia
Iran
Afghanistan (you have lots of soldiers pops)
Japan

The rest are boring unless you want to kill whitey with Zulu, which is impossible.

>>388721457
It's so nice. The music fits the age of discovery so fucking well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxwY1Oj9qMQ

Honestly aside from paradox's simplification and horrific DLC practices with their newer titles, the biggest sin they've committed is the fucking gay ass 3D map.
Serves zero fucking purpose. Makes political map mode(the only one anyone uses 99% of the time) look like absolute shit, and takes you out of the game because you're looking at the earth instead of a map of it.

>>388721567
Yeah V2(and HoI) do suffer for their shorter windows of history where there is less opportunity to actually change stuff.
In EU4 you can take congo and make a technologically advanced african empire. In Vicky2 you can't do shit as a nation with low POPs or a weak unciv except for abuse the alliance AI to get you parts of china and game the combat to end up as some successful geographical abortion with 0.5% literacy and 1% primary culture POPs.

>>388721742
Punjab is quite decent and a good India former, though most games you end up gutter crowning.

>>388721831
>that music

welp time to reinstall I guess

>>388721727
>>388721742
There is literally a handful of uncivs that are able to westernize before the endgame and I'm fairly sure only China and Japan are great power material without abusing the console and save scumming, westernizing isn't hard it's just a tedious and arbitrary process that basically takes the fun out of playing non western countries for at least 1/4 of the game, and American interventionism takes care of making central and south america unplayable。

>>388722030
Do you think this level of realism is maybe an attribute to the games quality perhaps?

>>388722030
>South america unplayable
Now I know you're just silly

>>388722030
>central and south america unplayable

I remember I conquered Chile, Ecuador and Bolivia as Peru in unmodded Vicky II. You just need to do it ASAP otherwise the USA will sphere you and it will be game over.

Also, isn't it supposed to be extremely hard to westernize as fucking Xhosa, don't you think? Or maybe unite the arabs under Egypt? Those fags couldn't even do it when they got the chance. It's supposed to be really difficult, not like in EUIV where the fucking Enlightment can start in Iraq and the indian countries can defeat the europeans in a 1:1 battle.

>>388720332
CK would be better if it actually focused on crusader kings, instead of the Satanic Cuckold Adventures of Rajah Pajeet

>playing map-painting simulators

>>388722250
So fun to conquer 3 countries and then sit around til endgame with shit literacy and not being able to move under the threat of being dismantled by the U.S.

>>388720332
>CK2
>Actually things too do
>fun having a shitload of kids, doing your best to raise your heir as good as possible
>marry rest of your kids off and then assassinate 20 people so they will be first in line to inherit new lands

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>>388722352
tfw China will be the final nail in the coffin, and will make the game run ten times worse than the addition of India

>>388722406
>not violently spreading your seed until all nobles from every country are of your faith, line and horribly inbred

>>388722519
But they aren't adding china, just the concept of china.
Not that it maters, because at the end of the day you should only care about the mechanics they add that can be used by moders.
If you are playing without HIP or CK+ you are doing it wrong.

>>388722250
There are compromises paradox has made between realistic historical expectations and gameplay, vicky2 has some of the deepest pitfalls there though.

The model is just not accurate all of the time for it to be immersive, it just shafts some nations.
Most uncivs with other unsphered uncivs near them can boost through the military westernization stuff, and some nations(Japan is all I remember, maybe Iran as well) have some special love in regard to boosts towards westernization.
EU4 is probably a step too far from history and johan clearly wants a multiplayer focused game for some reason. But like take a mere fraction of the small detail they put in different nations in EU4 and apply it to V2.

If backwards unimportant nations had a few ahistorical, but still reasonable boosts that the player(if not the AI) could leverage to their advantage the outcome would be far better replayability.
As it stands there isn't difficulty to uncivs, there is just how much you suffer.
Like Byz or Theodoros in EU4 or Zoroastrians in CK2(before the sekrit religion DLC at least), these aren't really hard; all that matters is if you get unlucky or not.

>>388722352
What else could they add?

I felt like the game was done once they added the muslims and flavour to the Byzantines. The rest of DLCs weren't about Crusader Kings of course, once they did it it became "Europa Universalis: Medieval Edition". I'm not going to lie that I don't enjoy spreading the Romuva religion to Jerusalem, but what else could they add?

They already added the relic system so for me it's complete.
>>388722482
Immigration is how you do it. Gibsmedats to the max. It's easier in unmodded Vicky.
>being threated by the USA

Ayy. Ally with european powers and that's all.

>>388722629
I've never given a shit about CK2 enough to mod it, how worthwhile are they?

>>388722637
Playable Theocracies, Holy Orders, Mercenary Bands
Make the Pope important for things that aren't divorces and crusades
Crusade mechanics that create Crusade States rather than just adding blobs to your kingdom
Heresy mechanics that aren't just "suddenly there's a heretic"

>>388721930
who you playing my man?
1399 for a simple, comfy BYZ blurple blob?

>>388722632
Unmodded Victoria is really easy. And I'm not saying you need to worry about minmaxing bullshit, just common sense, like always having a big army in your capital so reactionaries don't hinder your westernization process.

You can make yourself sphered by having 200 relations with GP. Japan and Iran get those boosts because of what happened IRL. No Zulu king thought of "Let's build a university and bring brits there". Of course you can abstractly do it by those events and raising literacy, but there's no specific even like "Build university with brits on it".

It seems you want something like DH Kaiserreich, where anything can happen, from Poland turning syndicalist to fascists taking power in Russia. Also, democratic or imperialist Japan.

>>388722867
Be sure to get VIET for ovimmersive events

>>388722867
Pretty worthwhile I'd say.
Adds a shitload of traits, options, makes combat more interesting for your character, removes India while adding a lot of provinces in Europe to make the map better.
CK+ and HIP are basically overhauls because of the huge amount of things they add or change, and since both remove India because fuck India the game runs way better.

>>388722960
eh never enjoyed the Byzzies, might be keen on a Savoy run

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>Sabaton's Lifetime of War starts playing

>>388723017
okay I know enough to know you're trying to trick me dolan

>>388723035
dank, I play on a toaster so this might make it worthwhile, are they available for 2.7.2?

>>388723109
Sabaton is such a trash band.
Probably the worst metal music I have ever heard.

>>388722906
I completely forgot about those, now I'm mad.

>Crusade mechanics that create Crusade States rather than just adding blobs to your kingdom

Well, if you are a count then you get to have those kingdoms just for you, just like what happened IRL. Also, I think playing Holy Orders and Theocracies will be ultra hard since you will need to have children while no one knows, asking the pope to legitimize them and get him elected. It would be an interesting game, though.

>mercenary bands

Can't you already do that as horde nations? It's been like 2 years since I haven't play CKII.

>>388723035
India might become more relevant with the added provinces in jade meme:not actually china dlc since it might lead to india-nomad conflicts
alternatively someone needs to make a mod with events that lead into the formation of the indian empire and their invasion of the rest of the map

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>>388720332

>do something
>stare at the game for the next 2 hours waiting for the Aggressive Expansion to clear
>do something
>repeat

The game can be fun but it has way too many anti-fun mechanics.

Also, the game cheats a lot by having the AI see everything beyond the fog, ignore castles and hire literally over 400 mercenaries while keeping a profiting economy.

>>388722976
I'm aware that the countries that do have it received it because of legitimate historical justification. I'm just arguing that there can be a balance between that and EU4's magical equality.
Giving more countries more options will be ahistorical but it can still be done within reason.
Obviously when playing any Grand strategy game the fallibility of the historical human leaders is replaced by the mathematical precision of a human player. This is already incredibly ahistorical, adding an option to bend over backwards for say, a secondary power; steal their western secrets and then escape their influence.
Of course the real leaders of that nation wouldn't have the same idea, but it isn't like you don't minmax towards historical goals as well. Bismarck probably wasn't dreaming of a unified german empire back in 1836 when he was like 22 or something. But a player playing Prussia in 1836 knows exactly what will happen.

>>388723062
Sardina Piedmont is a fun formation. Aragon is a respectable early game opponent to topple, and the nation isn't immediately overpowered. France provides challenge for ages as well.
Top pick my man.

post soundtrackfus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bPMzD7xY1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_hbLu1HCAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSk-WVLS2A

>>388721184
But EU4 is the most simplistic one out of those three?

>>388723487
There is no more satisfying feeling than breaking the back of the big blue blob. Never thought about taking on Aragon though, they're usually long gone by the time I become ascendant

>>388723815
I'm inclined to disagree, just due to the sheer railroading in HoI4, even if you try play ahistorical, it's practically useless without forcing you into fascism

>>388720332

It would be if the AI wasn't incredibly obnoxious towards the player

>>388721276
>Build liquor factories
>Stare at the map for 5 hours
So this... is real fun...

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>>388723830
Sometimes Iberia can end up with them ahead of Castille, sometimes.
I do move pretty quick for the formation though and they're holding Sardinia. So they're usually next after your italian neighbours.

>>388724105
>not going balls to the wall and speedrunning greater germany formation while simultaneously fighting France, Austria and Russia as Prussia

Being able to RP as a person > roleplay as a collective political party > roleplay as a nation-state

>>388723919
HoI4 is a poorly designed mess with barely functional AI. Which is kinda sad because some of the core mechanics (production, air combat) were a step in the right direction. HoI2 or Darkest Hour are still the pinnacle of HoI experience imo

>>388723704

Man that nevsky rides to battle track gives me goosebumps

Too bad I never play slavic chararacters. Also you forgot one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNsI5eBn2gI

>>388720332
>EU is superior to CK
no

>>388724354
thats one of the reasons I enjoy EU3 more, even historical lucky nations can get their shit stomped, IE Castille. Absolute box of chocolates

>>388724401
Then start a M&B thread

>>388724449
I still rate HoI 3 the highest, but I'm probably autistic because the OoB is my favourite thing about the game.

>>388724401
While true, you forget the variables that are the different lenses through which you do said roleplaying. Victoria 2 is very indepth, while CK2 is often very lacking, when it comes to role-play.

>>388724732
Both 3 and 4 are weird. They have different inevitabilities.
Like England may get crushed in EU4, but they almost always come back.
Who knows who will rule Iberia in EU3, but know that whoever it is will almost always colonize eastern Siberia.

I like OOB in general, I don't like how much you have to actually move the HQ divisions.
Like if you still assigned leaders and their effectiveness was still divided the same, and you still were encouraged to keep different scales of forces certain distances from one another it'd still be cool. But actually having to move the HQ as well somehow tipped it over the edge for me.

>>388725180
Weirdly enough that's a reason I like it, you have to balance speed of advance with maintaing communication and logistical support. It may be easier for me to keep track of as I usually play on the lowest or second lowest speed while I multitask on actually doing the job I'm paid to do.

>>388720332
>We can all agree that EU is superior to CK, right?
yes

EU3 is better than EU4

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>>388723704
Can someone tell me where I can find the "Songs of the Civil War" soundtrack for Victoria 2 on youtube?

>>388724654
Not that lad you're replying to but I never liked the soviet suite too much.
Like yeah I enjoyed it while it was playing but it isn't something I'd choose to listen to outside of the game.

Outside of triumphant or melancholic music I like tracks like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARnSGuqcSY0
Just sounds like the trials peoples and nations are going through, and the tremendous worldwide human effort towards the same endeavor, positive and negative, on either side.
It does sound like the world is at war, along with all the glory and horror that implies.

Here are some other tracks I like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or8A-BRNj_M
I don't need to say anything about this. It's all in the name and the music and it just fits.

As much as I dislike the game, Stellaris' music is top notch.
This is my favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_0mJjd1q6w
>we're up high in the fucking stars and shit is happening like we could never have dreamed of before.
Also the Utopia tracks are a really nice callback to Vicky2's tracks. They both convey that moment of rapidly increased scale.

And moving away from Paradox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErUJsF1vJ9k
I'm not that big of byzaboo, but this perfectly conveys an empire that is older than the new generation of children biting at its heels and the power it still commands.

And as much as a can of worms as civilization 6 is, I really enjoy the changing civilization themes throughout the ages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hUct9Z64-Q

>>388724401
you RP as a person in real life, so I'd rather role play a nation in a video game

So did anyone else see the most recent HoI4 devblog? The one where they say that they're basically going to add all the systems that were gutted out from HoI3? Also conveniently neglecting to mention that you are gonna have to pay for the priviliage of having espionage back or a logistics system or an order of battle

Fuck this company

>>388723487
You need to realise that it is the player who makes the game ahistorical, not the AI. If you let Vicky II play without you then you won't see shit like in EUIV BELIEVABLE WORLDS. For example, if in Vicky II you shit Germany then Russian will become extremely powerful, eating all Central Asia and maybe the Ottoman Empire. That's how balance of power works.

>>388726240
They used to be on there but it looks like the jews got them.

>>388726240
How did paradox manage to get the best renditions of those songs in existence?

>>388721276
>Vicky 2


Everything about that game feels like you need a university degree for it to comprehend everything about the game

>>388728561
No game is that complicated. The most autistic ones like aurora mostly have difficulty in wrestling with the interface.

Vicky2 is pretty damn simple.
There is a lot going on but it's pretty easy to see how these things converge into what little actually matters.

>>388720332
If that's what you like at least play Victoria 2 where you actually can genocide

>>388721276
>Build what's in demand.
>State controlled industry is too efficient that your populace have no desires for even basic reform as almost universally everyone's meeting even their luxury needs
>AI controlled industry is too dumb to make dosh, closures everywhere, everyone unemployed and wants gibs.

>>388728561
Bro I've been playing it for years and I still don't know exactly how to use the trade menu. I don't think it even works right.

>tfw razing land and pleasing the Khangz

>>388729178
If paradox gets victoria 3 right they will be the golden gods of the gaming industry.

>>388722629
>If you are playing without HIP or CK+ you are doing it wrong.
I play After the End and Warhammer: Geheimisnacht, fight me.

But in all seriousness, you are correct, and I'm interested in seeing what the teams for those mods do with the new mechanics.

>>388729235
The guy who made it has left paradox so not even paradox knows how it works
>>388729365
Why would you have any faith in them after EUIV and GoyIV

>>388729532
It's not like they forgot how to make good games. They just pretend to be stupid to maximize profits. I was sort of hoping they actually cared about victoria.

>>388723815
They may be more complicated, but they are way easier once you learn the mechanics.

>>388729532
Stellaris and CK2 recently too.

>>388729602
That's where we're going to be quite honest.
They've expanded and moved and replaced staff a lot.
It was the Conclave DLC for CK2 I think. Hugely bug-ridden at launch. Took fucking ages to fix. And it was directly following handing the CK2 team over to another lead.

Never expect a developer/publisher to care about their product.

Look at Creative Assembly. After Empire was a fucking disaster, they released the best Total War game in the franchise. Then following perfection they invested into a ton of advertisement and created a game that was still mediocre more than a year after its barely functional release.
And then they went to Warhammer and deliberately went against everything they did leading up to Rome 2's release and were very transparent.

The reasons for all these things change wildly in the heads of a number of different people. You can argue that they were committed for an entire trilogy with Warhammer so they were actually paid to care more. But then Shogun 2 turned out(slightly) better, and they probably weren't under near as much pressure for that release.
And Rome 2 was a disaster despite large up-scaling prior to its release. And following all the good-will attached to Warhammer, they're bound to listen to another person's ideas at the planning stage and fuck up another title down the line.

TL;DR: Like any group endeavor creating a product for sale, have no expectations unless the product is on the upswing. If it is, you can SOMEWHAT expect things to continue on the same trend.

Paradox are worth far more than they ever were right now. And they're doing their worst work at the moment.
To make Victoria 3 a good game they will have to invest into it. Presently they are well trained to yield X results from Y investment through Z methods.
With X = more money than we started with, Y being small, appropriate to the lack of popularity of Vicky compared to other titles and Z is simplification.

>>388730785
Crusader kings wasn't popular until it suddenly was. You're not wrong. Having the right people with proper incentives is necessary for a good future. Good leadership is perhaps even more important, and paradox is arguably lacking this. The counterargument is that their business model is sustainable indefinitely and their sales numbers haven't contradicted this. It is possible that their leadership has correctly ascertained that customers are dumb. On the other hand, I read an article (I can't remember where) that suggested paradox was reconsidering their jewish dlc strategy.

So we're left being able to say little more than what we would do if we were them because we surely don't know what they're going to do. All we can do is consult our magic 8 ball.

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>ywn play EU3 for the first time again and have this song play
Why is EU3 music so superior to EU4 music

>>388732216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxR-XdJo2cA
shit forgot link

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>>388729507
>paradox will never add in new HIP/CK+ mechanics in the base game because they never want to admit how much better modders are at fixing their DLC-fest games

>>388721383
EU3 would be perfect if its trade mechanics were more like EU4's