It's almost as if Caesar's Legion was made to be nothing

And yet you can still be on their side. I can't think of many other games that let you just be one of the bad guys.

yeah they were made to be the good guys

>>388595787
They're cliche evil, but /v/ tries to make them seem like some complex morally grey faction.

>>388595787
No, F:NV is a masterpiece of writing and gameplay, and totally not just the same shit as F3 with a shitty brown filter on top.

>>388595904
What's inherently evil about wanting to turn the world to tribalism and away from hedonism?

>>388596032
How can it be tribalism if the doctrine of Pax Romana is all for the sake of the empire?

Supposedly there were plans to flesh out legion controlled territory, make it this kind of oppressive but peaceful place, without much in the way of raiders or bandits because everyone's terrified of breaking the legions laws and any raider bands that tried to resist got massacred. Kinda like an inverse of the NCR controlled portion we see, where people are relatively free of NCR control in day to day lives, but raiders and powder gangers are out of control and the NCR isn't able to stop them.

>>388596032
>dude like slavery and denial of basic human rights is fine because like drugs are bad

>but people in the legion still do drugs.

>>388596132
they also talk shit about firearms, yet the higher ranks use guns.

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Yeah, they are literally ISIS

>>388595985
>he thinks anything Obsidian shits out has good writing

>>388596032
Because that's not progress. That's willful ignorance and idealized regression.
Fuck, Deus Ex brought up this exact same conversation 10 years before New Vegas.

>>388596125
Would New Vegas have been perfect if they had time to finish it? I'm not just talking plot, but bugs too.

>>388596236
Daily reminder that you can gain rep from Vulpes by complementing the "purity" of Legion's retribution.

>>388596272
I think idea here is that progress is not always the right decision. New Vegas is also not story driven RPG, you can side with anyone you feel has better position

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>>388595787
>He believes in objective morality
There's one rule and it's might makes right.

>>388596295
No. A hypothetical version of a Legion-controlled eastern Mohave wouldn't be much more than a larger-scale version of Fortification Hill. Or Nelson.

>>388596094
In terms of conformity, tribalism may also refer in popular cultural terms to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their own tribe or social group

>>388596132
>slavery
As opposed to House's monopoly on electricity or NCR taking control of whatever small community the feel like taking control of?

>people in the legion still do drugs
bitter drinks and what else?

>>388596272
Progress is exactly what it is, start anew and give civilization a chance to advance differently than they did before the bombs. Even House says that the pre-war democracy is what led to the bombs

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>>388596437
>posting The Mask

>>388596132
>>388596490

NCR are no better remember in Honest Hearts had mentions of NCR taking tribals as slaves

>>388596436
>progress is not always the right decision
Yeah, because we totally don't need infrastructure , and we should totally leave the Wasteland in the devastated state it's in instead of trying to fix things and revolutionize.

Can we all agree that regardless of your end goal, that there are times when the ends do not justify the means, and before you even mention how possible the ambition is if you were to go about completing your ambition in an amoral way, your end result is not worth it?

>>388595836
Fallout 3

>>388595787
>>388595904
>>388595985

>have nuanced "villain"-faction
>i-its totally the same as Fallout 3 g-guys!

>>388595836
Shadow the Hedgehog

>>388595787

I actually agree more with Ulysses's beyond the

>BEAR AND THE BULL

Both the NCR and legion are retarded

>>388596295
Impossible to say. Could be they had plans that were great on paper but if executed would have dragged down the game as a whole, and we actually got the best version possible thanks to the deadline. Or it could have been an amazing game unrivaled even to this day. Either way /v/ would regularly find ways to shit on it.

>>388596582
>NCR
>Slavery
I call bullshit

>>388596490
>Even House says that pre-war democracy is what led to the bombs
Because of course he'd say that. I don't know what you've been thinking, but House is hardly the kind of person I would call an objective and reasoned viewpoint on democracy.

>>388596582

Why do people always forget that? NCR were taking slaves and genociding tribals but its legion who are the """"EVIL FACTION""""""

>>388596295

No. There's always ALWAYS cut content for games. The Legion stuff people consider "cut" hadn't even gone past the concept stage. It might have only existed in JSawyer's mind.

Also it would still be buggy as hell even if they had more time.

>>388596687
It's been 200 years, yet there is no infrastructure, nobody fixed shit, only people who enjoy life of luxury are people with electricity in new Vegas and they are not interested in sharing it with others.
NCR has tried to control new vegas, but that was in vain, time for real army to take over.

>>388597006

I dont know if its legit but Daniel says NCR prospectors kill tribals and or enslave them.

>>388597135
Drunk freebooters out of California don't represent all of NCR, shitboot. Additionally, NCR Rangers hunt slavers.

>>388597046
Because maybe, despite how corrupt they are, Legion is still worse than NCR?

>>388597126
>NCR has tried to control new vegas, but that was in vain, time for real army to take over.
Do you really think that Legion would be a fairer hand presiding over Vegas than the NCR would be?

>>388597292
>don't represent all of NCR
They represent NCR no matter in what quantities.
>NCR Rangers hunt slavers
Sure, but they also inslave same people, dress them nicely and push them into battle, but see it's different they don't put them into cages.

>>388597419
Pot calling the kettle black here

>>388597303
>Do you really think that Legion would be a fairer hand presiding over Vegas than the NCR would be?
I don't know, all I know is that legion would probably try to get new vegas, and that is all that matters.

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NCR and Legion both suck ass you fuckers left us at the Divide

>>388597135
"Prospectors" is just another name for "rogues". Of course people who don't feel any need to be accountable for their actions would abuse their power like that. That doesn't make them representative of the NCR any more than those bounty hunters who harassed Jacobstown.

>>388597556
Why would anyone stick around a place that was nuked to hell and back?

>>388596749
If you gave money to Bethesda for F3. Yeah, you're a fucking villain.

>>388597556

Well lets see your skin was ripped off and the place is sort of a hell hole but atleast NCR and legion are BFFs in the divide

>>388596213
The lower do too at hoover dam

>>388597548
You think NCR hasn't tried? You think they've never made progress? Even with the strict provisions placed upon them by House, they still have their troops at least partially overseeing the safety of New Vegas. And of course, you forget that they actually do succeed in gaining control of it if they win Hoover Dam.

>>388596032
>Away from hedonism
>Make games out of slaughtering town and torturing people
No.

>>388597863
Yes, I think NCR is too chicken shit to try and actually fight for new vegas.

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The true hero of Vegas

>>388597938
They've wanted it enough that they've established a base of operations at Camp McCarran with a monorail system connecting it and Vegas. They've wanted it enough to set up an embassy on the Strip. How the fuck would they be too chicken-shit to fight for it when that's what they've been doing the entire game?!

what happens in a legion run where ceasar AND lanius die?

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Which is the best DLC and why is it Old World Blues?

>>388598160

Splinter groups upon splinter groups

or an eastern and western legion forms

>>388598116
They think that if they surrounded the city they could control the intake of the city and by proxy control the city.
They are cowards by nature.

>>388598160
Lanius literally can't die, idiot. It's like doing an NCR run where Moore and Oliver die.

>>388598194
/DEAD/
/MONEY/

>>388597046
Because the game features a morality bar, and if you perform enough good actions then the legion tries to stop you.

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>>388598160
Fantastic becomes the new leader and the legion finally evolves into a true super power.

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>>388598295
>liking linear pretentious garbage

>>388598049
He exploits the weak for profit.

Literal shit tier.

>>388597685
>F3 and Bethesda are bad meme
You angsty hate filled teens are annoying...

>>388598450
F3 is literally the worst Fallout game, even Fallout tactics and Fallout BoS are better

>>388595787
I guess they wanted to make them more grey. But they didn't want to attract SJW's. It would trigger them like "why did you make misogynists looks like good???" so they instead made them crucifying evil tyranny.

>>388598250
Okay, you're clearly just a fucking edgelord who defines diplomacy as "create a wasteland and call it peace".

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>>388598250
>Cowards
Waxing democratic means you can't justify that shit to your people or those you'll come to administer over.

>NCR isn't a good democracy
Arguably, but still, corruption and other blemishes don't mean they're without limits to have much they can bend that capital D.

>>388598428
Nobody expects anime faggot like you to understand philosophy and darker themes.

>>388598351
Should I kill Fantastic after finishing at Helios One? Y/N

>>388598431
>What is the NCR protectorate
>What is the Legion's slaves
>What re House's consumers

>>388598428
>Penis fingers
>Bullet sponge enemies
>Go scavenge this here now go here and do the same thing twenty times
>Dude light switches sexy LMAO
>Annoying robots

>>388598292
i meant hypothetically, numbnuts.

>>388595904
Supposedly they ran out of time to portray the so-called advantages of Legion rule, but it basically amounted to "The trains run on time." So yeah, they're just evil.

>>388598545
>Can't argue anymore
>YORE AN EDGE LORD
NCR can't do shit to protect the people they are government that will come and fuck you up if you do something they don't like, but if group of mad marauders sieges your city, you wont see NCR even try.

>>388598746
>but it basically amounted to "The trains run on time."
Is it Godwin time yet?

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>try to bomb you into oblivion for no reason
>threaten you
>call you savage
>command you to help them
>make you pointless walk around big empty places

Is there a group more unlikeable than the boomers?

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>>388598595
>philosophy and darker themes

>>388598507
Yeah except I know you never played tactics or brotherhood. I even doubt you played the original 2 fallouts all the way through. You're just a NV baby larping as a NMA fag

>>388598450
F3 is insanely flawed in almost all aspects.
>Graphics
>Aesthetics
>Gameplay
>Physics.
>Story.
>Characters.
>Music.
>Sound effects.
>Stability.
>Progression.

The only memer here is a person who purely calls F3 great because they were between 12-14 years old at the time when every video game is amazing. You have to have some truly shit taste to defend it.

>>388598765
I shouldn't have to argue with someone whose only argument for NCR being incapable of taking Vegas is "because they're weaklings".

>>388598630
>killing the best character in the game

>>388598807
>Give them a bomber
>You now have your own private army/air force
The Boomers are your trump card, mate.

>>388598807

>have stock piles of explosives could probably hold out versus both the legion and NCR
>cant kill some giant ants

>>388598937
I played the shit out of Tactics, real time combat too.
Game was fun, but prone to breaking.

>>388597640
Marked Men needed the radiation to survive.

>>388598450
random ellipses at the end of a sentence is a huge tell that the person using them is utterly retarded

>>388598807
dont forget when they bankrupted social security.

>>388598902
Yeah go fap to 10 years old anime girls

>>388598943
>Music

You mean you didn't like Butcher Pete?

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>>388598428
Linear isn't a pejorative anymore. We've moved beyond that. In this age of open worlds, the tight and tuned narrative has reasserted it virtue.

>Pretentious
It's only pretentious if the narrative doesn't put in the work of building up its thesis. The main game and every DLC works toward the theme of letting go or working to resuscitate the past if you were paying attention. DM refines that overarching theme for its own story, prompting players to reconsider the main game and coming DLC in its terms.

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>>388598943
Funny how New Vegas shares the same flaws as the ones you listed for 3

>>388598049
He protects his own people. He is like a smaller House, but instead of profit and business, is in it for the community.

>>388598995
>focus almost entirely on explosives and area denial
>have issues dealing with animals crawling inside of your explosives stockpile

>>388598951
no, I said they are "pussies" different thing.
Weakling means they don't have the power, I believe that NCR is more powerful than Legion.
NCR is afraid to loose it's support and would rather let their people live in poverty than fight for their wealth

>>388598807

All worth it to see the bomber flying at hoover.

>>388598995
They're explosive fetishists, not militiamen, and they don't have nearly the numbers to take on a giant ant colony. Plus they probably don't want to blow up one of their main sources of energy just to get rid of a monster infestation.

>>388598746
They're modeled on the Roman empire- the game ends when you explain to their leader that the Roman empire was unsustainable. You literally tell the main vilan that the premises for their empire is retarded. I'm not sure if that counts as breaks ng the fourth wall and is an injoke about the writing being bad.

>>388599032
Nah, in my case it was a way to convey disappointment

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>>388598807
Given their history, it's surprising that they didn't degenerate into raiderdom. That's impressive enough on its own.

>>388599105
W
H
A
C
K
I
N

>>388599208
>the game ends when you explain to their leader that the Roman empire was unsustainable
Where does this happen? I thought you could only outwit Lanius by telling him he's walking into a trap.

>>388596687
Chris Avellone unironically agrees with that.

>>388599060
jej

>>388599028
Besides the fucking ghouls, I mean.

>>388598194
It had some great voice actors

Nv factions are kind of like the 2016 election. And there is only one true answer:

Those who choose ncr are more likely to have voted for hillary

Those who choose legion are more likely to have choosen legion

Those who choose house are more likely to have voted for trump(correct choice)

Yes man and everybody else are irrelevant

>>388597626
>That doesn't make them representative of the NCR any more than those bounty hunters who harassed Jacobstown.
Except those mercenaries are there on contract, working for people in NCR who despise mutants and don't want them in the latest annexation

>>388598807
the voice actor for the kid in the museum just fucking butchers every line god damn

>mispells "atomic warhead" as "automatic warhead"
>mispells "venturing out of Nellis" into "venturing out to Nellis"
>says "sav-" as "Sav." instead of shortening "savage" as it's supposed to be
>nucular

fuck I hate that kid

>>388599115
I agree with everything you said minus characters and story but those things can't be helped because Bethesda's engine is dog shit. I like NV but I would gladly trade it, along with Fallout 3 and 4 to have Van Buren.

>>388599198
Have you even realized how valuable Nevada is in the Wasteland? How much time and effort has been poured into controlling it? And yet here you say they'll just tuck their tail and run when hit with any meaningful resistance? WHICH THEY'VE ALREADY FACED?!

>>388596271
>he pretends anything Obisidan makes has bad writing for those sweet, sweet replies.

>>388599321
One of the talking points let's you point out that their territories back east will be harder to defend and that by streching their forces thinner they will lose everything. Lanius admits he never thought of that, and agreed to temporarily fuck off back to the west.

If you defend FO3 I urge you to go back and play it vanilla. It's aged like milk.

>>388599518
>Those who choose legion are more likely to have choosen legion

Really makes you think.

>>388599549
>those mercenaries are there on contract, working for people in NCR who despise mutants and don't want them in the latest annexation
People "In" NCR, not "of" NCR.

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>>388599368
And that's where we return him to the box. He just doesn't want to write post-post apocalypse. Nuking progress shouldn't be his answer to his vision for fallout in face of the world's development, it should be moving to the outskirts of the previous games boundaries and into some fresh wasteland. There's plenty of America to explore and once that's done, there's a bold leap to be taken into a new continent, or even bolder, crafting that story he detests. Morality and ethics in a post-post nuclear world. After defeating the challenge of telling a story that's more than how to build a better laser gun, they can face how to build a better society off the tip of the old world's mistakes.

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>>388599106
Being linear is bad in a game that thrives in its exploration and multiple paths/options. FNV is an open world done right, and so is OWB, this is why it's so precious: Most open worlds are absolutely garbage because devs have no idea how to make them interesting.

Dead Money is not just linear, it's extremely linear to the point the devs put those annoying as fuck beep beep of hell and smoke of fuck you just so you can't explore freely, they want to dictate where and when you must be at every single fucking time, holding your hand during the whole thing. Exaggerations and shiposting aside, Dead Money has some fucking amazing atmosphere on par with Demon's Souls, but everything else falls apart. The weapons you get are boring; The NPCs (save God/Dog) are uninteresting and unlikeable; holograms are bullshit; Elijah screams too loud; etc.

Old World Blues is just as great, but has none of Dead Money problems. The characters are great, the exploration is nice, you're free to go whatever the fuck you want, the history isn't shoved in your face by forced dialogues all the fucking time, the weapons are so great and fun you can ditch your stuff and just use OWB items and be happy, etc.

When I say Dead Money is pretentious, I mean it tries to be more than it actually is. It takes itself too seriously painting as dark and gritty but it tries so fucking hard it just feels goofy.

>>388599603
They haven't faced shit, there is no resistance in Nevada for them, only couple of gangs, Legion is first real obstacle on their way and seeing how all of Nevada is a shit hole without any meaningful control, shows that NCR can't even do their job properly.

>>388598959
As long as you're not fighting the NCR, who have Vertibirds and anti-aircraft guns.

>>388599368
>>388599862
This guy sounds like he'd love to be a member of the Brotherhood.

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About to start pic related at level 30, what should I expect? Doing an energy weapons run so I'm pretty hyped for the loot

>>388598995
>have stock piles of explosives could probably hold out versus both the legion and NCR
Actually, isn't one of their reasons for being more open the fact that they're starting to run out of ammo?

>>388599934
>They haven't faced shit
Congratulations for proving to everyone that you haven't even played New Vegas.

>>388599208
>They're modeled on the Roman empire
Superficially. And it's mostly in the structure of the Roman army and the use of Latin. The Legion operates more like the Mongol Hordes than it does Roman anything.
>the game ends when you explain to their leader that the Roman empire was unsustainable
This is just a lie. There are three ways to talk down Lanius. Speech convinces him that his army is not large enough to hold both East and West concurrently. Barter convinces him that the Mojave cannot replace what he has lost conquering it. And a third Speech check from Lonesome Road where you bluff him into thinking NCR is a lot smarter than it actually is.

>>388600080
21 minutes of great dialogue.

>>388599518
House wants to promote economic growth through trade though, counter Trump. Yes man is the poulist awnse because it doesn't explain why it's good other than because you feel like you could do a better job.

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>>388600080
Have fun, explore the entire area. There's only like 20 or so areas, hitting them all to unlock their fast travel makes the quest really easy.

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>you'll never have him as companion

>>388600167
>The Legion operates more like the Mongol Hordes than it does Roman anything.
Gotta be the biggest irony that the tribe closest to the Mongols ends up with a better form of management than Legion does.

>>388600167
The first and second awnsers are the reasons why Rome collapsed - enconomic growth through conquering could not longer sustain the upkeep needed to maintain their holdings. Also also point out ways that they operate differently from Rome.

>>388599984
Do they have enough explosives to turn Vegas into a slag pancake?

>>388600000
checked.

>>388600109
And good job on you showing that you don't understand shit about it, whether you played it or not.

The three main raider groups are in the Mojave because NCR kicked them out of California. The Fiends are a group that has only grown since NCR has been in the area and only because General Oliver refuses to use his troops to put them down. Powder Gangers are their own prisoners who broke out when Oliver moved guards from the prison to the frontline.

All in all: The only thing in the Mojave that can and should be giving NCR trouble is the Legion because the Legion is the only thing capable of giving them trouble.

>>388600167
>>388600358
The Empire will settle down once it takes New veges. Caesar talks about how the Colorado river is his Rubicon and winning the battle will turn the legion from a assortment of loyal tribes into an actual Empire

>>388600516
Probably, but unlike the Boomers, they're not a bunch of idiots who blow things up just because they can.

>>388600467
>enconomic growth through conquering could not longer sustain the upkeep needed to maintain their holdings
More like because not being constantly at war any longer meant it couldn't just sustain itself by divvying up land to its soldiers.

>>388600467
And it has nothing to do with Rome. Rome is never brought up. Lanius doesn't know what Rome is and wouldn't care if he did.

You point out to the leader of the Legion why the Legion's advance is untenable. The fact that it has parallels to the real Roman Empire is meaningless.

>>388600678
>A bunch of idiots who blow things up just because they can
>sends the Courier to blow up the Divide

>>388600561
That's a side-effect of tunnel vision and bad management, not cowardice and weakness.

How is the legion even a threat?

>go against the legion
>dudes with machetes
>go against the NCR
>rangers that blow you up in nanoseconds with brush guns

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>>388599918
>It takes itself too seriously painting as dark and gritty but it tries so fucking hard it just feels goofy.
I'll have to put that up to taste then.
OWB was goofy (and I enjoyed it). Two bears high fiving was goofy (and I enjoyed it).
Dead Money was disempowering at just the right time for me. When I'd gotten too comfortable in Vegas, it made me count my shots and keep on the lookout for supplies. The oppressive tone was a challenge at first that had me disliking the DLC, but after returning to the assured safety of nearly every other moment in the wasteland or other DLCs, I began to appreciate my quick dips into the cloud as well as sleuthing for speakers. They didn't strike me as player limiting devices, but tangible elements of how shitty a place the Sierra Madre is (and once I mastered the Villa, I could explore at my own pace). I'm not really bothered by being led along a path the developer would like me to travel anyway. Yes, freedom is nice and all, but staying in sight of the rails— the intended narrative doesn't feel constricting to me. Not when in the back of my mind I knew I'd be spit out into the mojave again.

>Boring weapons
I liked the holo rifle/grenade lawn chair type weapon. The weight of its reload and firing appeals to me. Everything else? It's a shame the BAR is an awful resource to damage proposition. Subpar, but a neat gun is just icing anyway.

>NPCs
I liked Christine. Dean's nearly unapologetic assholishness and self-contentedness has some appeal as an observer (as opposed to someone that has to deal with him). Elijah was great in my opinion. If any character should be a cazador in your ear, its him.

>Holograms
Did you have trouble with them? I think they only tagged me a few time in the vault. Otherwise, they were just a stealth challenge that made me think about Fallout's state of technology before the war.

>forced dialogues
How dare characters speak to the player.

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>>388600356
>not having him as a companion
Weak

>>388600930
They didn't do it on purpose.

>>388601434
Let go, faggot

>>388600741
A fair point, but you have to consider the motivation to stop conquering. It's a positive feedback loop that stops when it becomes more expensive to invade and pay soilders with yet more land than it is to build walls, but as you point out- their economy still stagnants. The point is that these issues are addressed at the end and it seems stupid that an entire empire would LARP as Romans without considering what made them surcumb

>>388601298
They don't exclusively use machetes, idiot. They just hold hand-to-hand combat up as an idealistic preference.

>>388601298
Because that's not lore wise. That's gamey stealth archer tier gameplay. Imagine the ncr having half the ammo they have corrupt and like the Italians in ww2

>>388601464
Pretty sure they did.

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>>388599106
Dead Money is not only a shitty DLC for its repetitiveness and pretentiousness but it also spits in the face of both the player and established mechanics: Exploration is deliberately punished, the beginning throws you into a situation where the player is forced to adopt a specific playstyle that most don't roll for their character, the environment is confined and uninteresting, and the story is convoluted as F3 in that you're forced to fight off enemies and find a treasure for someone who thinks its better for us to use extremely limited weapons rather than your own equipment.

I hate namecalling and projecting, but DMfags are very alien. The people who not only like but adamantly defend Dead Money's abysmal gameplay format seem to be either players that were distracted by the mediocre story or players that already had a character that benefited from the weapons forced on the Courier.

>>388601492
Not defending Legion, I'm just being a pedant about why the Roman Republic fell into oligarchy.

>>388601298
How is the NCR even a threat?

>go against the NCR
>conscripts with shitvice rifles
>go against the NCR
>centurions that advance with marksman rifles before ripping and tearing with chainsaws

>>388601563
I haven't found anything that says they intended for the nukes to detonate there. Everything I've found says they found a piece of technology they didn't understand, but saw that it had markings from the old US, so they sent the Courier to another place with old American tech in the hopes that it might help them figure it out.

>>388601563
>trying to annex a prosperous settlement on an important road to the Mojave, their latest and greatest acquisition
>"dude what if we just BLEW IT UP!"
>now a bunch of their soldiers and Rangers are dead and their efforts to hold the Mojave are greatly hampered by this radioactive crater blocking trade and reinforcements

No, don't be dumb. NCR didn't send the Courier to blow up the Divide

>>388600930
>>388601464
>>388601563
They didn't know those computer parts the courier carried to the divide would set off a chain of events leading to unimaginable disaster. They didn't even know what they were. It's a good example of how the NCR is more dangerous by accident than they know how to be on purpose.

>>388601380
>How dare characters speak to the player.

Dead Money builds lore by cheap exposition dialogues.
OWB builds lore with the world and the items on it, a much more interesting way of conveying information.

One example is how no one ever tell you how the nightstalkers escaped to the world. No one needs to: You see yourself how, by observing. Meanwhile DM would give you a 15 minute dialogue of Dean being an insufferable asshole or Christine making nonsensical signals that can mean anything.

That was my point with that line.

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>>388601604
DUDE
LETTING GO
L M A O
Seriously, fuck dead money.
>DLC ends as soon as the main quest does and you can never go back
>no real reward for going out of your way to get the best ending
>no tough workaround that you can use to remove the collar or have some kind of way to not die in the fog
Plus the fact that it's not immediately obvious that you have to shoot the ghost,
then walk over and dismember it by hand to actually kill it.

>>388600873
>Rome is never brought up
Yeah it took me a few days after playing to pick up on the subtle clues that Cesar's legion is somewhat similar to the Roman empire. The hints are there though. I hear there's a game tho episode that talks about them being in the same narative universe.

>>388602005
>Not immediately obvious
>HEY RETARD, THOSE GUYS WILL GET BACK UP IF YOU SHOOT THEM CUT THEM UP OR BLOW THEM UP
Paraphrased from Elijah

>>388600873
>Rome is never brought up
Dude, there comes a point where your argument gets so extreme that even people who agree with your viewpoint will come to want to disagree with you.

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>>388599106
>It's only pretentious if the narrative doesn't put in the work of building up its thesis

Yeah, and Dead Money fucked up right at the beginning.
>man goes through the trouble of luring potential warriors to help him find gold in a dangerous place
>"LOL Even though I've got you in a secure slave collar and want you to survive, I still took away your useful stuff so now you can use a shitty a gun and a bunch of weak close-combat weapons! Good luck!"

>>388602173
>listening to a brothercuck of steel retard

Playing Dead Money. How do I kill the ghosts without Dog?

>>388602245
>I still took away your useful stuff
The first thing he says is "the security system took all your stuff, do you really think I want you in here armed with nothing?"

>>388602343
He is clearly lying and it's confirmed he was by the end of the DLC.

>>388601604
>benefited from/story
I enjoyed the story, but also the gameplay as a challenge I could look back on by the time I reached the villa. My first playthrough was a gunsfag and if I had to point to the one thing that most simply explains my appreciation for it, it is that "being spit in the face." I had dozens of hours of open desert and boone popping heads before I could see them. I wasn't getting bored of the game, but the unexpected change of pace of and being forced to adapt to a different style of gameplay than I was used to was a point of refreshed interest between me and the game.

>someone who thinks its better...
IIRC, the casino prevents most foreign equipment from entering its boundaries to prevent contamination. At least lore wise, the explanation becomes more reasonable when the casino has a matter replicator on every block.

>Convoluted
Angry man wants to weaponize sierra madre defense systems to get revenge on NCR for the brotherhood (initially), but really, to satisfy his own megalomania.

>>388598807
The Boomer questline is the third most tedious line in the game, after the Omertas and the White Glove one.

>>388602435
just because of all the walking around

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>>388595787
Morrowind > Fallout: Tale of Two Wastelands > Fallout NV > Oblivion = Fallout 3 > Skyrim = Fallout 4

>>388602005
>DUDE
>LETTING GO
>L M A O
Such a perfect description of this shitty DLC try at being deep

>>388602642
To be fair the entire premises of fallout is that war never changes, despite the fact that the nature of war clearly changed after the bombs fell.

>>388601971
Another difference of taste. I like speaking with characters and there was plenty of expositionally significant environmental cues throughout the casino and plazas. I know what you meant, but your registering it as a complaint confuses me when you really aren't forced to listen to anyone for very long if you cut the conversation short. Also, there were some things the environment can't really get across. I'd rather talk to Dean and learn his story, then enjoy the environmental story telling in his stashes and dressing room, instead of, what, listening to a centuries on holotape or note about his history with Vera and Sinclair? Yeah, you could explain his entire plot just by decorating Vera and Dean's adjacent dressing rooms, but listening to someone tell me a story in addition to the plethora of environmental story telling that was there was /not/ a chore for me.

>Christine making nonsensical signals that can mean anything
Eat a mentat

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>>388602841
>despite the fact that the nature of war clearly changed
"When we say 'war never changes' we're talking about things like this"

>>388598292
what

>>388602429
Different guy. I don't remember that. How so? He's brought his own equipment in, yes, but I'd assumed the method was difficult somehow.
>>388602298
use the thing you killed them with to dismember them. stop skipping dialogue.

>>388603157
>???compliment???insult???.png

>>388598943
NV Shares every problem you listed aside from story, characters, and maybe music.

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>>388602430
>I wasn't getting bored of the game, but the unexpected change of pace of and being forced to adapt to a different style of gameplay than I was used to was a point of refreshed interest between me and the game

So what if that's the point? People who dislike DM know that was the point. Intent doesn't matter when the execution is abysmal. This is an RPG based around being able to use different methods to tackle a variety of situations and tasks. In this game, you're someone who's been walking around an open urban wasteland with your own arsenal of unique weapons. When you're then made to be in a confined space with a small amount of weak unfamiliar equipment while adopting skill sets you most people don't have the stats for, that isn't refreshing, it's annoying.

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>>388603081
>house was so perfect they had to remove the option to ally with the brotherhood from vanilla

>>388603282
I don't understand his post.

>>388603460
It's from a game that was made by an autistic Australian with personality issues.

>>388603552
what
Are you posting in the wrong thread?

>>388595836
Any WW2 game from the Allied perspective

Name a single decent character in F:NV that is not House or Ceaser or a companion

>>388603762
Yes Man

>>388603676
The ?Thing? is a meme from a "retro" indie game.

>>388603762
easy pete

>>388603762
Fantastic

>>388603805
Are you explaining >>388603282 because the post I was originally confused about is >>388598292

>>388595787
Everybody was equally shit.

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Are there ANY mods that fix Skillchecks like [SPEECH] so it works like Fallout 1-2 ?

I'd like to read my way to the best answer rather than have a tag say "choose me to win if you pass the check".

>>388603762
Male hookers.

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>>388603762
Vulpes Inculta.

>>388603983
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/62051/?

That was the most difficult 10 seconds of Google in my life

What the actual fuck. Why is everyone in this thread so goddamn retarded?
Night /v/ is supposed to be better than this

>>388603762
the King
Doc Michelle
Sarah Weintraub
Doctor Henry
Dr. Mobius

I have heard great things about this game and ultimate edition is the weekend deal. What are some mods that are general QoL improvements?

>>388603327
>don't have the stats for
Is your critique that the guns you were provided with weren't good enough? I used guns on hard (considered going down to normal for the DLC, but toughed it out).
Melee and Unarmed are a given.
Energy gets the holorifle from the beginning
Explosives mains (implying they aren't nursing a secondary) know they're being difficult on themselves
Guns goys have plenty of .357 ammo and police pistols
If you're not wasting ammo, reaching the police station should be sufficient for a heavy chunk of the plaza, and then you're beginning to find ammo and explosive codes

If you're at the right level and you're not doing something stupid like not leveling combat skills, you'll be fine. Switching to a cosmic knife to finish off down ghost people saved a lot of ammo, as did crippling them with explosives. You didn't need 100 explosives or melee to do either of those things.

>based around...different methods
Which is kind of what this DLC made me do. I don't think I ever touched a melee weapon after level 8 until I started DM. I was forced into a position where my methods had to adapt, though I was still able to rely upon the skills I'd developed to that point.

>you're someone whose been...arsenal of unique weapons
Turning combat into an afterthought isn't a good thing which is what happens by the time I'm walking about with uniques of my preference.

>it's annoying
And to me, some excitement is lost once I've become to stabilized in a game.
Remember giving up your equipment in Bioshock? I never quite reached the completeness of ammo I did by the time I'd gotten my weapon back (with most of the ammo missing), but from that point on, when the comfort I'd reached gave way to ammo conservation with my wrench and being more mindful of my ammo and resources, the game had my heart beating again.

Different types of gaymers you and I.

>>388604097
WELL THANKS
I fucking appreciate it.

May your (you)'s be plenty.

>>388599518
>Sided with NCR
>Killed House
>Killed Caeser
>Voted Trump
I don't think so buddy.

Every side is shit but House.

NCR is corrupt multicultural greaseball America 2.0
Legion is retarded barbarians with a stupid asshole for a leader that will crumble when he's dead
Independent Vegas is anarchy and will eventually crumble and get annexed buy another power just like New Reno did

>>388605839
>annexed buy another power just like New Reno
Is that a bad thing? Absolutely nothing has changed in New Reno

>>388605972
Yes they got Annexed by the NCR and the NCR fucking sucks.

>>388595904
the straight up massacres that Vulpes Incluta do is actually the exception to the rule. its what makes Incluta stand out. the regular legion modus operandi is to absorb not completley genocide.

>>388606068
Right, but annexation hasn't done anything to New Reno. The chick at the start of Honest Hearts has been there in the last few years and it's exactly as awful as it was in FO2

>>388603081
I don't see why they don't say 'you can't change human nature'. If they were trying to describe what drives people to athortarian regimes.

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>>388605839
>housefags
>obeying a pre-war zombie with an army of toasters that he cant even activate himself
>instead of destroying the NCR because it is inevitable that it will be destroyed

>>388597626
>That doesn't make them representative of the NCR any more than those bounty hunters who harassed Jacobstown.

those mercenaries were contracted by an NCR politician

>>388603762
Mr New Vegas

>>388602435
the Omertas and White Glove society along with the Cheif Hanlon Quest line are god tier, you just have shit imagination.

the Casino Quest lines are meant to essentially be point and click detective stories that completly change the gameplay (there a mod called Autumn Leaves that does this amazingly and you should check it out). the Hanlon quest is meant to be done in conjunction with exploring around the area of the Ranger camps or using it as an excuse to walk the mojave and explore locales while building the idea in your head that the NCR isn't doing so well

>>388606157
Because it's not about authoritarianism, it's about people doing terrible things

Whether it's an American in Power Armor executing a Canadian resistance fighter on TV and cheerfully waving at the camera or Vulpes Inculta butchering an entire town as an example for anyone who walks by, it was war that led them to do those things. Regardless of the level of civilization behind it, conflict is where all the worst aspects of humanity get put on display.

>>388606761
>shit imagination
I played at least ten times through this game and they got tedious after a while, especially when you tried all the outcomes.

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>>388606762
>either of those things
>"terrible"
Pick one, leafy. The degenerates had it coming.

>>388607205
I forgot about the doubletap.

>>388595787
So maybe we're the baddies?

>>388603762
Cheif Hanlon
The King
Elijah
Christine (when including all of the unseen material hinting at her adventure in Old World Blues hunting down Elijah)
The Survalist Randall Clarke
the OSI director, Thomas Hildern
Vulpes Inclulta
Papa Khan if only for that luscious voice


>From Someguy Series (non canon but if you didn't download it your a fucking pleb since its lore friendly enough to fit into the game perfectly)

Marko
Russel
Esther

>>388595787
>They ditched the Legion City in favor of building up Lonesome Road
>NVFags will always blame Bethesda.

Only reason Legion get's it dick sucked is because of trolls going /pol/ with it on the whole "muh degenerates" shlock.

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>>388607424
>defending the degenerates
At least the legion kept raiders in check, NCR can't even train and send a few good men to defend Camp McCarran

>>388607205
>that leg twitch

i've only just noticed that after all these years

>>388606761
>the Hanlon quest is meant to be done in conjunction with exploring around the area of the Ranger camps or using it as an excuse to walk the mojave and explore locales while building the idea in your head that the NCR isn't doing so well
Yes, but it also shows that one of the reasons the NCR isn't doing so well is because Hanlon is sabotaging them from within.

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>>388599518

>Have extremely strong preference for NCR
>Fucking hate House and always kill him as soon as possible
>"Supported" Trump

Death to house
Military State best State

>implying the courier wouldn't be given a high rank

>>388607727
>implying the courier wouldn't be given a high rank
They don't. They get the highest civilian award

A fucking twig

>>388607625
which he was right to do

even from a purely strategic point of view, the NCR would stand a better chance withdrawing from the Damn bridge head and allowing Caesar to cross the Long 15 where the NCR can then engage them with their tanks and moterised infantry instead of trying to funnel them into the damn

and yes i know your going to say the NCR don't have tanks, despite the fact they are canon in other material, its just Gamebyro is so shit it took modders including them in the Frontier last year to finnally get them to work

>>388607809

>civilian
Join the NCR military
Rise up the ranks fast as fuck
ezpz

>>388607880
The NCR army has no place for competent people

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>>388599518
>Being THIS much of a /pol/tard

Lemme get legit with as I was once a former /pol/tard myself. Stop huffing that shit, the world is far more better when you leave all that shit behind.

>>388607906

Become the leader the NCR needs

Make Wasteland America Great Again

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>>388607921
>implying he's not just false flagging
>ignoring the reddit spacing and lack of image

Caesar's Legion aren't the bad guys.
Their methods are brutal, but what comes out of that brutality is order and civilization.
In a world that has no limit on savages, Caesar wields what savages understand best: strength.
Think of the wasteland like one big prison without bars, if you aren't strong, the inmates will fuck you in more ways than one. For the inmates not to fuck with you, you have to fuck with them back to show you're not a pussy.

>>388597537
So it's agreed, NCR and Legion are both bad people.

any way to spice up a new playthrough that isn't following the usual primm-nipton-novac railroad?

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>>388608252
No, the legion are not bad people, and the NCR hardly qualify as "people".

>>388608314
Horseshoe theory is the dumbest most nonsensical "I'm above it all" bullshit I've ever had the displeasure of ever burdening my mind with giving the benefit of the doubt- and I've seen trickle down economics.

>>388608501
>Trickle Down
>bad
wew

>>388608501
and yet it's true. Really makes you think, huh

>>388608314
>youtube skeptics
Spotted the enlightened retardo

>>388609505
It's being directly critical of those pseudo's you idiot.

>>388607424
Considering that Sawyer didn't want to add the Legion content as DLC because he thought that they should've been in the base game, that is already far more respectable than anything Bethesda has ever done.

>>388609505
>being this much of a fucking idiot

>>388607205
>that was entirely stop motion claymation
beautiful

>>388611291
It's CGI you dum-dum.

>>388611424
Really? I thought it was Claymation like all of the talking heads.

>>388611424
>>388611469
Just looked it up and that Canada intro was a mixture of CGI and Claymation

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>>388610075
But isn't he just being a youtube skeptic of youtube skeptics? Does that mean we've gone full circle? If so, does this prove that horseshoe theory is wrong and it is in fact a circle?

>Dead Money is supposed to be the nitty gritty survival DLC where you struggle to get by with what you can scrounge up
>It literally showers you in food and chips to buy stimpacks, Dean's stashes trivialiae the weapon hunt aspect, and ghosts are boring, non-threatening foes who actually carry weapons like the beartrap gauntlet which trivialise the danger they present
>traps amount to just tripwires and mines/beatraps which are put in the most obvious places possible, literally their only clever usage is the basement of the switching station where following the light through the middle instead of running around the side takes you to a beatrap nest
>fog takes ten years to kill you and you have so much healing shit you can always just tank through it
>each companion nullifies the main threat of the place you have to deliver them to, be it radios or traps or fog, via their perk
>holograms take ten years to attack and are so sparsely used before the executive suite they may as well not exist for most of the dlc

Dead Money is a failure on every level besides the fantastic voice acting and backstory being interesting

Brand loyalty is disgusting.

>in the NCR's golden age of president tandi they were hiring bandits to attack vault city so vault would join the NCR for protection

the NCR has been scum since the first game they were introduced. Don't listen to NCR shills.

>>388613409
Still the least evil major power in the West and arguably the entirety of NA

>>388614538
that would be the followers my dude and arguably the King

>>388614675
>followers
>kings
>major powers

Though yeah the world would be way better off if the NCR's leadership listened to the followers more

>>388614752
the followers are more powerful then the NCR government but not in the way people expect. they care not for territory on paper and military boots on the ground. their ideology only requires that the people they teach value freedom, self sufficiency and independence. their mission in the Mojave is not by coincidence, they are preparing the free settlements to be strong enough economically to reject NCRs offer (more like threat) of Annexation. within the the NCR they offer a private education service that also brings more people up that practice their ideals who then go on to be important figures in their towns within the NCR (which will gradually grow into secessionist tendancies when the famine Hildern talks about inevitably happens and the NCR's centralized socialist policies likely failing to cope to the varied needs of the NCR states)

the followers with defeat the NCR simply through education and they arguably are the reason why Vegas goes independant in that play through

>>388615109
Followers have been teaching people for free for around 100 years

Still waiting for this ideological revolution

>>388596749
But you can't really join the Enclave. Even if you help them with the purifier they still attack you during the broken steel post-game

>>388616852
That's because you aren't even actually helping Enclave IIRC, you're helping Eden's plan to kill everybody (which is also FO2 Enclave plan) which FO3 Enclave doesn't even really care about.

And the funniest part is that evil Eden's plan amounts to nothing more than a couple of barks of people complaining about stomach pains or something like that. And I think the water begging karma hobos die?

Why does Caesar even want some pre-war shithole like Vegas?
It's part of the old democracy. Isn't the point of his Legion to build something so old, making it new again and restarting humanity?
It feels like a dumb plot point to drive the bad guy in the conflict. Like his dumb friendship with the White glove society.

First time I went to talk to the Legion, I brought Boone with me.

It wasn't that bad until you got into Ceasar's tent because nothing could be done to lure them out.