Why do so many of you hate open world? It doesn't tale anything

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away
It fucks with level design, progression and pacing.

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away from the experience

adding useless shit is just as bad as taking good shit away

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away from the experience
I reckon it does. I don't need all the fluff, I think it's just boring additions and empty worlds. You could tell the same story with something more linear, while still giving the player freedom of choice and exploration.

That being said, I reckon it's fine for something like Ark or Minecraft. Even if I don't like those two either.

Unless you can do it like the Witcher 3, Dont even bother.

>>388414173
It's good idea on paper but everyone is copying from eachother now so that every open world is the same. Devs are taking ideas from other games even though they don't work well with their game.

>instead of keeping the pacing going you have to run for 15 minutes to trigger another mission
>bunch of blockades like pointless crafting and upgrades system only slowing the game down and forcing you to grind
>no more level design or carefully placed details in the game due to open world copy pasted structure (everything needs to be huge of course, meaning no time or resources to do so even if they want to)
>usually more restrictive than most games due to the same 5 mission design you will do for 100 hours

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>why do you hate open cinematography?
>just put together your own film!

shoving a linear story into an open world will never work well

>>388414794
Yeah not to mention The Sidequests gets Very repetitive. Witcher does it better because it makes you feel like it's part of the main quest.

>>388414173
Game design and level design are hurt by the open world meme.

>>388414173

People dont like to think on their own and prefer rollercoaster with cinematic experience. They dont want games, they want movies. Many people even dislike RPGs where you have to make your own characters because they lack so much imagination that they absolutely need somebody else to craft character with backstory and personality for them.

tldr: people are stupid and have shit taste. More news at 11.

>>388415018
>People dont like to think on their own and prefer rollercoaster with cinematic experience
False dichotomy, strawman, the state of open world babies arguments.

>>388414173
Open world isn't the problem op.
It's how it's implemented that's the problem. Mgs 5 is one of them.
Big open world for no reason other than the sake of it being open world. I love mgs 5 but it would be been better if it had stages rather than a big open world.
Felt too empty most of the time.

>>388415127

I dont see how this argument is worse in any way than what "MUH LINEAR EXPERIENCE" fags bring-up. For me, open world is always better than linear game for the sole reason of providing freedom for player, instead of guiding them by hand.

>>388415018
people mostly shit on the lack of decent level design and the fact that open worlds tend to have empty maps with quests that are all the same repeated over and over
>anon that follows market trends without question thinks he's better than anyone

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>>388414794
>>bunch of blockades like pointless crafting and upgrades system only slowing the game down and forcing you to grind
that has nothing to do with level design

>no more level design or carefully placed details in the game due to open world copy pasted structure (everything needs to be huge of course, meaning no time or resources to do so even if they want to)
>usually more restrictive than most games due to the same 5 mission design you will do for 100 hours
STALKER is open world yet does this quite well, has a good level design, your point is?

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I have a question for every cuck in here that likes open world ubi-shit tier games.

Name ONE 6/10+ open world game in the past 5 years that is not Witcher 3.

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away from the experience
It fucks with level design, pacing, difficulty curve, and tons of other things just to give the player some meaningless choice. Now to be fair, some games work really well with the open-world formula, since the main draw is going on an adventure; you get to explore, see some sights, do your objectives in the order you want, etc. On the other hand, it would be TERRIBLE to apply an open-world formula to something like Bayonetta or DMC, since both games rely on carefully balanced difficulty curves and set encounters to ease the player into using different parts of their movesets.

It's great for some games, terrible for others. We don't need to have just one or the other, but in most cases I'd say do NOT make your game open-world just because you can.

>>388414173
The majority of them have bad gameplay. Otherwise they wouldn't be so bad.

>>388415307
A linear game doesn't necessarily have to be a corridor shooter cinematic experience, this only shows how inexperienced with the medium you are, a good linear game will allow the player plenty of freedom within its gameplay boundaries.

>>388414173
>It doesn't take anything away from the experience
It takes my fucking time because I'm sitting in front of a glorified loading screen pushing my stick toward the destination while nothing happens around me.

>only adds a bit more freedom
Complete illusion. Freedom is not how much excess space there is surrounding your objective.

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away from the experience

it takes away coherence and consequence

>>388414173
>It doesn't tale anything away from the experience

You have no fucking clue about video games, shut the fuck up.

The time and effort spent making a large world only for it to be mostly empty and worthless tends to come with a cost of sacrificed content that would have been worthwhile if the game wasn't open world.

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>>388415657
Still waiting for a response.

>>388415657
>>388416313
Breath of the Wild

>>388414173
The problem isn't explicitly open worlds, it's more the lack of developers who can really do it right. For every good one, there's a lot of bad ones where they fall into the trap of "Big open world with nothing to do"

Childhood is idolizing open world games, adulthood is realizing an well designed linear experience makes more sense.

If anything it encourages empty worlds with only a few things to do.

Take the endgame of any Open world game. The game become boring because often the devs didn't put enough care into the core mechanics to be fun on their own.

By the time you finish the game, you're likely to realize the most fun moments were missions you completed hours upon hours ago and don't wanna replay the entire game just for those gems.

>>388415657
Was gonna say New Vegas but that was almost 7 years ago (holy fuck I remember being 19 and posting in the first NV threads Jesus Christ)

Other than that, I've got nothing desu senpai

>>388416480
both my childhood and adulthood were with non-open world games, both linear and nonlinear alike

>>388415657
All Elder Scrolls, Gothic 1, 2 and 3
they're not that old :^)

>>388415657
Nier Automata
BOTW

>>388414173

It does.

It takes away level design. Specifically verticallity, and often good enemy placement. Ironically enough it takes out exploration and replaces it with wandering emptyness. It takes out secret areas. Takes out multiple paths in favor of a wide open square. It also ruins progression and pacing. It adds needless amounts of backtracking and travel.

It's garbage.

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We gotta stretch shit out, man. I want objectives to be 10000 miles apart from each other. Just grab all the content and spread it as thin as possible. Wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle, that's my kinda shit.
It's just so realistic and immersive, which is exactly how I determine the quality of my video games.

>>388415657
This is bait but I'll still reply
Games that are 6/10 and above:
Dark Souls
BOTW
Far cry 4
Fallout 4

>>388414173
I don't hate open world, I just don't love it by virtue of it simply being an open world.

I'm very tired of games counting A MASSIVE OPEN WORLD as a selling point. You can have the biggest map in the world but if there's nothing interesting in it, and it just takes a long time to travel between the two or three hand-crafted parts of the map.

Yawn.

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When I was a little kid I always wanted to be able to reach those mountains and climb them, but that was because I was little retarded kid that didn't realize that this freedom would render the game's levels and challenges completely meaningless.

>>388415657
Breath of the Wild

>>388415657
Breath of the Wild

Free climbing is the best innovation in open world gaming in quite awhile, I remember thinking mgsv would have really benefited from it.

I went into botw assuming it'd be really bad or wouldn't feel like a Zelda game at all, but it's great. The bite sized dungeons actually aren't a terrible idea and more often than not the puzzles are fucking awesome. Plus I don't know if it's the verticality playing tricks on me but the game world seems to be legitimately dense with worthwhile shit to do everywhere. By far the best 3d Zelda since Majoras Mask

>>388414173
Because open world almost always translates as "huge, richly detailed world with FUCK ALL to do in it"

>>388417965
so after the climbing gimmick overstays its welcome what are you actually left with?

>>388417965
>botw
>dense
Why do you lie, liar

>>388415551

Stalker SoC and CS are not open world. They are hub based. Stalker is just a bunch of small hubs all interconnected.

Stalker CoP is open world, but it's a very very small open world like the size of the GTA3 or Vice City, which is good because you have no vehicles and half to walk everywhere, so it feels a bit bigger.

>>388414173
>only adds a bit more freedom
>freedom existing in the vacuum-tight seal of computer code
fuck you are one dumb goy

>>388415307

To be honest, linear games give me a better feeling of exploration than open world games do at this point.

>open world
>yeah just follow this quest marker that I have stickied on your screen, also don't bother going off the beaten path there is nothing there except copy pasted trees, rocks and a cave filled with copy pasted enemies you already faught and all you will get are a few useless health potions and coins from them and maybe get a sidequest to spend 3 hours running around the wilderness looking for horse droppings for some NPC, okay now here's our main quest make sure you enjoy our gimped combat system and enjoy our badly structured fights with NPC's since we had to make the AI work with our open world

Meanwhile, linear games use unique assets and offer real secrets and discovers for finding ways off the beaten path, the mechanics aren't gimped and fights always structured well, and you get the sense of discovering your own way around since no quest arrows.

>>388418132
A Zelda game with approximately 35 dungeons worth of puzzles, which squeeze all the possible creative juices out of the same 8-10 moves/techniques and is all the better for it. I definitely like the smaller item set rather than the shitty gimmick items you only use in one dungeon and maybe one more time afterwards to get a piece of heart like in the other post n64 3d zeldas

>>388418145
Seems a lot more dense than mgsv, GTA v, and (maybe) the witcher. I don't play a ton of open world games so maybe there's better ones than these out there, but I always find interesting stuff to distract me while wandering around in botw.

I also don't come to /v/ very often so I'm probably not sufficiently jaded and cynical about everything as you think I should be.

open world99% equals bad copy paste level design whereas linear games can provide excellent level design.

>>388418629
>I don't come to /v/ often
>parrots the exact opinion that nintendo fanboys have been parroting about BOTW since it came out
hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>388416423
>>388417376
>>388417636
>>388417941
>>388417965

>Brap of the Wild

Not shitposting but that game looks incredibly empty and I have no desire to play it. It looks like it will be "Hyrule Field: The Game".

Hyrule field was already empty enough in OoT and this just looks like a game set in one gigantic Hyrule Field.

GTAV single player story.
8/10 easily

>>388418843
Maybe the Nintendo fanboys have a point and aren't just blindly praising it then. I didnt follow the game's development or the hype around it at all, I play mostly retro these days but just bought the game on a whim a few weeks ago and have been very pleasantly surprised by it

>>388414173
A good open world is fun, but more often than not adding an open world just means adding a lot of wasted time getting from A to B, because there aren't enough interesting things to see or do in between the (usually story-related) hotspots.

Also, what this guy said. >>388414539 In a linear game, devs can focus on designing good levels and controlling the pace to provide a consistently enjoyable experience. In an open world having interesting level design is hard if not impossible to do because you don't know where the player is coming from, where he's going, etc. And all the added travel time and/or lame minigames etc along the way just wrecks the pacing.

In good open world games, the open world itself is the main attraction, and there's plenty of fun stuff to do. The game's story takes a back seat and in some cases even ends up little more than an excuse to show the player around the world. In most games, the open world is just an afterthought they added because open world games are popular, and ends up cheapening the entire experience. Most open world games would be just as good if not better without an open world, and it would save a ton of resources that could have been used to provide a more polished overall experience.

>>388414173
Good open world formula:
>Xenoblade Chronicles
>Dark Souls/Bloodborne
>Zelda OOT/MM/TP (to a degree)
>The Witcher 1/2
>Dishonored/Thief/Deus Ex
>games with large open areas and different well-designed angles of approaching but every area has a goal. Interesting hand-crafted secrets to discover in interesting areas, enemy and difficulty progression.

Bad open world formula:
>The Witcher 3 (to a degree)
>BotW
>Far Cry 3/4/P
>Horizon Zero Dawn
>games with one large blob for a map, every area can be progressed through from every angle, making large scale level design almost impossible. What would be walls in a good game are gone to make room for reused assets and collectibles like BotW's Koroks and Witcher 3's "hidden treasure", "guarded treasure" and "treasure hunt" miniquests. Enemy and difficult progression is fucked up and game resorts to scaling enemies with your progression.

>>388418871
There's a hundred mini dungeons that are usually about 1 to 2 puzzles long. A good quarter of these are among the absolute best puzzles I've ever experienced in a Zelda game and there's only a couple that aren't vert good. You don't have to travel very far to find them, they're everywhere.

>>388419321

But Dark Soulsnt inst really "open world". Its corridor game, thrid person dungeon crawler if you will, with only degree of freedom being option to backtrack.

>>388419321

Dark Souls, old Zelda, Witcher 1 & 2, Deus Ex (new and original) Thief trilogy and Dishonored are not open world you retard.

For fucks sake, Thief is usually used as an example of why non open world games do exploration better than open world. How the fuck is Thief open world? It's just got branching paths.

The player must be directed and given the appropriate fun points in a game.
If you allow a player freedom in a game chances are they will use it.
Once that happens anarchy ensues.
You can't have people enjoying themselves willy nilly.

Open world leads to chaos anons and must be stopped.

Witcher 3 is the only good one this gen the rest have dull fetch quests and waste their space

>>388419756
>How the fuck is Thief open world?
It's literally a small, open world.
It's not linear like a CoD campaign.

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>>388420136
I present you, absolute freedom! Suffer no more under the opressive yoke of map limits!
No longer you will have to be bound by the shackles of gameplay mechanics and careful level design!

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>>388414173

> It doesn't tale anything away from the experience

expect you're wrong, it does take away from the experience, ironically it takes away from the immersion and depth of the actual game.

That's why i never liked GTA for example, all the effort is put into the open world, the actual story is far less appealing when actually playing it

The verisimilitude is significantly turned down, i rather have interesting game dynamics and an appealing story neatly packaged, than an open half interesting world, with a story i''ll never play again.

I don't care about fuckin mini games and stupid card games, i don't give a fuck if i can go all the way up there, i don't care about riding a fucking bicycle, i can do that in real life too

>>388420551

It's literally not open world at all. You are getting your meanings mixed up. Not even Deadly Shadows is open world, that's hub based.

>>388420694
Why the overreaction?
This was about open world and now you jump to gameplay.
I get it you like controlled experiences and less free form ones.

You don't have to be melodramatic about it.
People like different things. That is allowed.

>>388416682
Adulthood is realizing that it's not about map size and "you can do ANYTHING", but consistent gameplay mechanics and meaningful choices.

>>388414173
Because I'm 31 and I have shit to do.

>>388420957
Level design affects gameplay, it might even be the single most important aspect.

>>388420957
>this was about gameplay and now you jump to gameplay
huh...

I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for this, but I really enjoyed wandering Skyrim's overworld, going through vast expanses of wilderness and finding all sorts of isolated areas and ruins from the past was great, and I enjoyed the northern setting with the trees and mountains and ice and snow, so many games just do snow as a flat thing of white in lieu of a flat thing of green, so having snowstorms and the like was nice. If it wasn't deathly afflicted with Modern Games Syndrome or casualization or whatever you want to call it, it could arguably be the best open world game there is. Imagine Skyrim but with memorable landmarkers, no fucking compass and fast-travel and arrow icons to lead you by the nose. The combat and dungeons would still have to be entirely revamped, but still, it would be one of the best open world games to date.

Also, anyone that thinks timers for open-world games are a good idea needs to be shot. If some landmark in the distance catches my attention and I want to go see it, I shouldn't have to be torn between going there and exploring vs having to fetch 5 dire wolf pelts from the complete opposite direction so farmer brown's sheep can be safe; I should be given the freedom to wander as my heart desires.

>>388418871
well you are wrong. legit wrong

>>388417523
I think it really depends. Morrowind was great, but it was mostly empty, but if you explored enough on your own you would find great hidden gems.

Dark Souls was open enough to be completely non-linear for 70% of the game, and it was anything but empty, just fantastically connected.

But I concede that (IMO) these 2 were masterpieces, so they are not truly representative.

>>388421591
True.
It would seem you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

There are different concerns and goals in an open world than a linear game.
It is a perfectly valid option to not play open world games because you don't like them.
It is odd that some want them gone from the market because it does not fit their tastes.

IGO/UGO TB combat is an abomination in my eyes. I don't feel the need to have it removed from existence.

>>388421704
It was about open world vs linear world.
That certainly affects gameplay but it is not gameplay itself.

>>388422309
It IS gameplay itself. How could it not be? Gameplay isn't combat, by the way. So, for example, exploring in a metroidvania is gameplay.

>>388422067
>open world baby
>hates TB combat
>brainlet
Really makes you think.

I don't think open worlds are a terrible thing in games, but I don't understand the appeal in making them bigger and bigger.

Because it seems most developers who do go for that approach seem to think that collectibles bullshit counts as actual content.

>>388415307
Have you actually ever played a well-designed linear game? Ratchet and Clank, Homeworld, Red Dead Revolver?

A well-designed game will work regardless of linearity or open-world. However, open-world usually is an excuse for not making more interesting content and unique requests from a variety of unique NPCs and instead use it to pad most games up with fetch quests or kill x number of enemies so you can advertise it has a lot of content which boils down to being the same repeated content fifty times. It becomes an amusement park bereft of any variety or unique rides - instead we have a few roller coasters surrounded by twenty carousals and twenty scramblers. Sure, it has more rides than the other park that has three different type of roller coasters, go karts, a hedge maze, a swinging ship, a scrambler, and a water ride, but it has more variety and I'll probably get a more satisfying experience doing one of each ride than doing the same ride forty times.

>>388422430
No.
Proper TB combat can be good.
IGO/UGO is a cheap alternative.
The first leads to the need for a basic grasp of tactics the second leads to a basic grasp of how to exploit the mechanic.

The second is favored by shitters who claim to enjoy the tactical aspect.
An example
If you think Fallouts TB combat is a an exercise in tactics you fall into the second group.

>>388423042

The amusement park is a good analogy, someone should make an image out of that.

>>388419321
>Dishonored/Thief/Deus Ex
>Open world

They're good games precisely because they aren't open world

Are there any good open world scifi games? Not all of that space simulator stuff, but just a normal open world game like GTA or whatever, but in a scifi setting.

>>388423830
Jak II is sort of like that, though it's somewhat linear.

>>388419425
>>388421773
>nintenbros

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Sandbox games on the other hand takes similar concepts and makes them work however.

>>388424171
Tourney
Tourney
Tourney
Get bored
Quit
The game

Hopefully they have learned and make Bannerlord a decent game.

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>>388415657
Does dead rising on PC count

>>388414173
Open world is the gaming equivalent violation of the literary rule of omit needless words.

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>>388414173
The open world itself isn't a problem, it's when they go for a pure quantity over quality approach
>shitty lootfest
>shitty mmo style sidequests and missions that boil down to playing fetch or killing X enemies
>copypasting up the ass

Not only that, the games generally don't need an open world (as in it doesn't fit the game).

Only Gravity Rush 1-2 had an open world that made sense gameplay wise. It served the game and wasn't just there to try and ride the coattails of a dumb trend.

>>388424303
Hopefully you learned they have medicine for adhd

>>388414173
Laziness on the part of the developers who overestimate how compelling their gameplay is.

Open world shines when the there's both a benefit to the exploration aspect and a desire on part of the player to do so. Most games that include an open world these days lack both of these.

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>10 years ago i constantly wished and dreamt of there being more open world games

Did I have a monkey's paw up my ass? Make it stop.

>>388424574
I am less willing to eat a log of shit to find the sweet piece of corn than you it seems.
You win this round.

>>388414173
I prefer a small world where everything feels thought out. At least the smaller game doesn't try to artificially hide the actual amount of content in the game with a big empty world with copypasted shit just because they had to fill it up somehow.
It's the same 10 enemy types and 6 utility items as drops over and over, but hey, look at the size of the map!
Nothing bores me more than obvious padding/filler in any medium.
Procedurally generated shit is even worse.

I can last 10 minutes in GTA 5 before I'm overwhelmed with boredom. The open world meme is for people without taste.

>>388414173
Level scaling and quest markers completely destroy any worth open-world games might have, alongside the fact that they tend to be very static with little the player can do to modify them.

>>388414173
>how its suppossed to be
open world game full of things to explore and do and interesting characters and optional branching stories
>how it actually is
the same regular content streched out into a map thats way too big and way too empty filled with boring filler you pretty much have to do or else the game is over in 8 hours

>>388424916
>Universally liked title by /v/ and the general public
With autism, nobody wins anon.

open world would be awesome if you had proper control of your character.

running, walk, crouch are not very vast in the option department.
getting stuck on pebbles, stuck on fences, can't climb ledges.
or you can do parkour like spider-man, but you can't lay down or crouch and run at the same time like in Gears.

i think tech is still too limited and open world was basically shoe horned out.

>only adds a bit more freedom.

Because there is no fun in exploring a vast full of NOTHING

>>388423830
caves of qud, my man

>>388425512
Nothing is universally liked by /v/ newfag.
Lurk moar

I simply long for surprising interaction with the world. I do X and generate an outcome that's unpredictible. Doesn't matter if it's linear, hub nor open world.
As is, theå only thing for now is online play.

>>388424702

I still do and still wait for good open world RPGs. What I got so far? Only Elder Scrolls and Gothic/Risen games stands out, plus Dragon's Dogma (kinda), Fallouts, Two Worlds (meme game but first one is surprisingly fun) and thats all.

Skyrim isnt wodnerful but I played around 200 hours simply because Im starving for open world RPGs and how many times one can play Morrowind?

>>388414173
I don't have something against open worlds in general, if they are designed smart and creative like the one in Jak and Daxter, but most open worlds are just "Here's a few houses and you get your variety in the one big mission after you did 200 repetitive missions that lead to the big one".
The open world in MGS V was also really bad if you think about it, but somehow it works because you could use all gameplay mechanics, but if your game is just a shooter with limited possibilities then you should put at least effort in the design of the world.

>>388415307
If they use the open world in their missions, yes, but a negative example of it is GTA V. There is no reason that this game has an open world besides you must drive very long ways to go to the next mission, the game has a linear hallway structure, even more than in all of the previous GTAs.

>>388415657
inFAMOUS 2