Before: >Company made custom engine >tune said engine exactly

>>388412505
>Make a shitty engine hastily and hope that it works
>Get programmers and artists to get accustomed to it
>Might have shitty results

vs.

>Get a license for an engine that has been in development for years by a team who is dedicated to making this engine
>Very well documented
>Can find programmers and artists who already have experience with it

Fucking hell, I do wonder why premade engines are getting more popular.

Making an engine yourself is too much work. Why not just take something that someone has already done before? Why invent the wheel new?

>>388412798
>>388412719

Because Unreal is an inefficient middle of the road engine. It produces middle of the road results. Making a new engine gives you a big edge on the competition, if it works out right.

>>388412505
It's better for business because you don't have to put money into building and maintaining a proprietary engine. Also you can't recruit people who already know how to work with the engine, making your software engineers more expensive to replace.

>>388412920
Or you end up with a FFXV situation where you create a dumpster fire that sucks up all your money developing the engine and then you can't get any help or outside workers without training them on said engine and how it works.

>>388413116

Luminous Studio wasn't designed for Open World games and is not suited for it. FFXV is generally a mess and the engine is only the start of it.

>>388412505
EA has Frostbite, Valve have Source, Ubisoft also have Anvil and some other engine I don't know the name of. Every big company have their own engine now, only the poor resort to Unreal and only indieshit is made on Unity.

>>388412920
It's almost like you're implying that making an engine from scratch takes a week or two, instead of years. A AAA one that is. Not to mention all the other software that has to get implemented in it like 3DSMax, Nvidia shit, etc. You also need to program it in such a way that the game can be exported to a variety of platforms without much work. Otherwise you end up with shitty frame locked ports.

>>388412920
>1998
>Unreal engine could make gorgeous looking world, render a lot of stuff and with good sounds and music
>now
>Unreal engine is average, unremarkable
Bit of a bummer.

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>>388413358
And, why would that be?

>>388413341
Lets be honest, an engine really only should take a month or so to make if you're actually competent. It's not that hard

you don't care about being a special snowflake too much if making profit is the top priority

>Why is this new system better than the old one?
See: Luminous Engine.

>>388413463
Because an engine that once pushed boundaries is now mediocre?

>>388412505
They take more time to develop and code now than they did in Gen 5 and 6, that's why.

>>388413485
>Making an engine isn't that hard
>Should only take a month

Try making an engine before making assumptions.

>>388413485
Ok. Make your own and post it here on /v/ for all us /gdg/ idiots to use. Thank you.

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>>388412505
Each company making a custom engine is retarded for numerous reasons.

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>>388413485
>/v/'s understanding of software development

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>>388413485
>he might be serious

>>388413485
Would you make me an Unreal engine clone please? I'll give you 20 bucks and 2 months time. Should be easy, right? :3

Oh, and please add some revolutionary features never seen before. I don't want it to be as mediocre as unreal.

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>>388413485
>Lets be honest, an engine really only should take a month or so to make if you're actually competent. It's not that hard

Why do people this ignorant think that it's a good idea to open their mouths?

>>388413564
it only pushes as much boudary as id tech and frostbite.
actually because like half the engine nowaday is based on id tech, id tech pushed more.

>>388412505
It's the same reason CG/digital overtook real 2D animation. Most people prefer the path of least resistance even if they have to sacrifice a significant amount of quality. Using a pre-made engine is easier, faster, and cheaper.

>>388413485
>in b4
>i-i was just baiting guys! honest! y-you fell for my bait hehehe

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>>388413485
unimpressive bait

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>>388413485
>when you just woke up from a 35 years long coma

>>388412920
>Making a new engine gives you a big edge on the competition

Yeah because look how well the Luminous engine worked! Or how about id Tech 5! Crystal Tools totally wasn't shit and XIV 1.0 was properly optimized!

Don't forget Japs use a lot of middleware and lower budget games use shit like PhryeEngine. Japs generally never made engines, but just wrote code for their game that they couldn't really use for different kinds of games like Unreal or Unity can. Games are way more complex now so writing a game in code from scratch and getting Uncharted 4 results is a bitch and Japs struggled during the PS360 era. MTFrameworks was good, Fox Engine was okay, but the shit other big devs made like Square and Sonic Team are pretty bad.

>>388412505
Before
>/v/ talks about videogames

Now
>/v/ displays their huge ignorance about something they claim to love

Well to be fair you've probably doing the second one since always

10 years ago you could make a map out of a few textured planes and some low poly props. now it takes a team of artists to make all the shit required. game production has changed because the market demands more and more advanced simulation and graphics. you are stupid, op.

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Only smaller devs use Unreal or Unity, AAA studio's use their own engine

But for Japan, i don't know what happened with Square's Luminous & Capcom's Panta Rhei
Luminous is likely Console limitations & i expect to see the engine used more in Gen 9, but Capcom just switched to Unreal & "RE engine" without a word, maybe budget issues?

a shame more games don't use Cryengine 3 though

>>388414908

I don't think Panta Rhei has been used in any games. It seems like they couldn't get it to satisfactory levels. I don't know why they just didn't make MT Framework 3.

>>388413758

>It's the same reason CG/digital overtook real 2D animation. Most people prefer the path of least resistance

Is this a joke? It took years for CG to get where it is and there was plenty of resistance. Not to mention all the training and new concepts that had to be brought in since traditional animators couldn't just jump into the new boat.

>>388414908
crytek can make good engine but cant make good customer support, marketing
or games

>>388414908
>AAA studio's use their own engine

I guess so. But if MGSV being unfinished, FFXV being a borefest, FFXIV being broken at launch, and the Panta Rhei getting canned, and Crytek never picking up, and so on and so forth.

Is that making your own engine is guarantee that your company won't remain AAA after the fact. The only ones who could afford to make their engines are indie devs, and even that's suspect: there's too many cases of promising indie games fizzling out because the engine was taking twice as much time to make as the actual fucking game, and in fact the indies that use pre-built engines are the most likely to actually get anything done.

>>388412505

Because programming is a tool, not art. When I was asking /g/ about what language would be the best for making software for communicating with measuring station, they replied C# and when I asked why, they said "because it have huge library and whenever you will think of something, there are chances that somebody else did that before, uploaded, it got improved and optimized by 10 other guys and the result is better than what you will ever accomplish on your own".

You have no fucking idea how complicated is making your own engine nowdays. Times when one guy or his 5 friends could make whole game on their own are long gone and nobody will risk sinking shitload of money and time into making 500th engine and optimizing it, when there are already done solutions that already works very well. And fuck memes, Unity CAN be good running, its a fucking tool after all, performance depends on user as well. UNLESS devs absolutely need some features that other engines cant provide. No point in making new engine for the sake of making new engine alone, its waste of resources and time. Kinda like making "original dont steal" Linux distro that works exactly the same as the ones already existing instead of improving what is already here. Oh wait...

>>388415780
>I guess so. But if MGSV being unfinished, FFXV being a borefest, FFXIV being broken at launch, and the Panta Rhei getting canned, and Crytek never picking up, and so on and so forth.

Thing is, MGSV was not great, but it had nothing to do with the engine. Fox Engine is great and it's a shame Konami isn't putting it to good use.

>>388412505
>Why is this new system better than the old one?
because you can shit out shitty and broken games way faster and even completely incompetent devs can get at least something to work.

When I see an Unreal Engine logo, I always try to avoid it at all costs. In 99% of the cases you will get a shitty broken buggy game with a horrible frame rate.

It literally says
>dev is incompetent
>avoid at all costs

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ITT: Idiots who who never written a simple program in fucking JavaScript or some other beginner tier coding language think they have what it takes to make a properly working game engine.

>>388415783
>C#
kek
the programming language of millennial retards.

>>388416618

Yeah because everyone knows that C is the best and C++ is shit.

>>388415783
>already works very well

yeah, we saw that already, fuckhead.
Devil May Cry 4 using Capcom's properly made MT Framework
>60 fps
Devil May Cry Over This Piece Of Shit Story "game" by incompetent devs using Unreal Engine
>unstable crappy cinematic 30 fps

fuck off

>>388416718
C++ is not C#, you fucking retard

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>>388413485
>an engine really only should take a month or so to make
You sound like smart guy, really....

>>388416618
>programming language of millennial retards.
That's Javascript

>>388416756
And if Ninja Theory attempted to make their own UE3, it would run much, much owrse.

>>388416718
C is portable
C++ is portable
C# is Microsoft garbage, no one right in their head would use this piece of donkey crap. If you are that bad at programming, simply use Visual Basic

>>388412505
>Use Unreal or Unity
>both available with source code and million options to tune
>companies chose not to
???

>>388417073
Mono runs well pretty much anywhere.

Official .NET Core for loonix also exists

>>388416584
Believe me we know how hard is to make engine from scratch,we are angry that they dont even bother to customize Unreal once they get it.

You shouldn't have to create your own engine to create a damn game. Game development is already hard enough as is.

>>388417004
incompetent devs are incompetent and shouldn't make anything at all

And Ninja Theory should simply make crappy movies, that's all what they actually want, can't even write a good story or blieveable characters, but at least they would fuck off gaming. I have no idea how this garbage studio hasn't been closed down yet.

Other studios have been closed for way less although those were way more competent.

The team matters far more than the engine.

>>388417073

C# works fine on Linux since long time already, mate.

>>388416756

>incompetent devs

You answered your own problem. Even the most expensive camera wont produce good pictures if user dont know how to handle it.

>>388417131
>Mono runs well pretty much anywhere.
Does it run on Wii?
On N64?
On DS?
On PS3?
On PSP?
On Dreamcast?
On AmigaOS 4?
On Atari?
On Samsung TVs?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Literally no idea.

>>388417252

NT games sell decent 1-2 million. That's more than enough to survive.

>>388412505
>renderware wasn't huge in the 6th gen

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>>388416756
You yourself already pointed that NT are incompetent devs, so of course their game is gonna be shit.

I give you another example, picrel on UE3 (originally), what now?

>>388417252

In other words, Ninja Theory shouldnt try practice yet, I am right? :)

>>388417361
>but but but it somewhat works on Linux
>sure, it may be totally outdated, but who cares
Still led by Microsoft
Fuck off shill

btw. there is way more than Windows+Linux, fucking mongoloid. Only morons would use something that Microsoft is a part of.
>embrace
>extend
>extinguish

>>388412505
It all depends on how well you optimize it.
Frostbite for example is fucking amazing and every game that is built with it runs smooth as butter, except for ME Andromeda. How those shitty devs managed to fuck that one up I don't know.

>>388412719
>Very well documented
>UE4

Ever played Dishonored 2? Runs and looks like shit, let the specialists make the engine.

Anyone else always imagine it was spelt and said "Jerry Rig"?

Holy fuck OP you opened my eyes Jury Rig makes a thousand times more sense

>>388417559

>Still led by Microsoft
>Only morons would use something that Microsoft is a part of.

/g/ is the other way. And take your MS-phobia with you.

>>388412505
>EA games
their own Frostbite engine by DICE
>Ubisoft
Multiple engines by themselves(Anvil, Snowdrop, Dunia etc)
>Activision
COD still uses modified Q3 engine from '97
>Bethesda
gamebryo as ever
>Square Enix
their own Luminous engine
>CDProjekt
their own REDengine or whatever
>Rockstar
their own RAGE engine
>Indie devs
Unity, Unreal or also self-made engine

OP is a faggot basically
most bigger studios use their own custom made engines, shit even some indie devs do

>>388417682
i thought it was in reference to jerry lewis

>>388412719
Don't forget the amount of money that needs to be invested in creating a new engine. Many devs aren't going to be able to afford creating a dedicated engine.

I will say each game having a dedicated engine made for it would be ideal if they had the time and money for it but it's unrealistic to think that would be the case in most situations.

why did geomod2.0 have to die

>>388417367
C# does run on PS3/4, Xbox (no shit), Switch, Android and iOS through either .NET, Mono or Xamarin

No commercial company is developing games for retro bullshit in the year of our lord twenty one seven AD

>>388412505

What game is that in OP?

>>388417797
>Many devs aren't going to be able to afford creating a dedicated engine.
even poor devs like Metro and Stalker devs made their own engines
Ubisoft has at least 3 of their own engines
even bioware made their own engine(s) near 2000ish
afaik Stardew Valley 1man dev made his own engine for the game

they just dont give a shit like Bethesda

why did geomod2.0 have to die it was so promising.

>>388412505
>Why is this new system better than the old one?
Because most games in Unreal run better than ones in custom engines without sacrificing noticeable customization abilities the game developers need.

>>388417481
>hurr durr a simplistic fighting game runs at 60 fps finally on our shitty engine
>we win
No, you lose.

I bet you can also make a Snake game on UE that runs at 60 fps. Whats the fucking point.

UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all and on PC you can simply tell the customer to buy a better PC so that the shitty engine will at some point be able to shit out more frames per second.

>>388417513
If there was a tiny bit of greatness anywhere to be found, but their "games" are simply garbage. They just got their SJW fanboys, who will buy anything up. Doesn't matter how crappy it is.

I mean let's go through their games
>Heavenly Sword
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate
>Enslaved: Odyssey to the West
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate
>DmC
garbage, shit combat, crap frame rate

I see a pattern here

and DmC is not even their own shitty IP. They were shitting on a well known and established IP of rock solid 60 fps games.

Tell me how the fuck this is possible
How does a shitty studio gets to make a new Devil May Cry game, when they are incapable of creating proper games in the first place?

Now look at Nintendo and them asking Criterion to make a new F-Zero game. That makes sense. Criterion at least released some rock solid 60 fps games with proper gameplay (Burnout Paradise).

>>388413485

The reason shit like Unreal and Unity are used so often is because they cut out the longest and hardest part of making a game.

Making an engine is incredibly difficult and time consuming, but once you've got it done, you're 75% of the way to having a finished game.

>>388416756
NT is trash as expected, but even then the PC version of DmC:DmC was easy as shit to run at constant 60FPS.
The console versions were fucked yet the PC version looked good for how easy it was to run at max settings without framedrops.

>>388414453
Hey fuck you, I like the idTech engine.

>>388418142
>UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all
XStation consoles are literally x86 PCs now.

>>388418142
Console games always run like shit, regardless of their engine.

>>388412505
How old are you?

Cant you remember the time when 90% of all fps used quake engine?

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Games have gotten more compicated to make, which has resulted in standardized engines and more middleware.

You might be able to make a doghouse with a regular saw, but if you're gonna build a fullsize house you'll probably want a buzzsaw.

>>388417731
>Square Enix
>their own Luminous engine
Luminous ended up being a shit show and they moved their other projects to Unreal 4. I recall rumors they were going to try and make their own engine, fucking again, recently though.

>>388418000

Stardew Valley was made with the XNA framework. Which is essentially an engine.

I don't think you fully understand what an engine is.

>>388414908
>Only smaller devs use Unreal or Unity, AAA studio's use their own engine

Wrong.

>tekken 7
>kingdom hearts 3
>street fighter 5
>gears 4
>A Way Out
>Darksiders III
>Days Gone
>Dragon Ball FighterZ
>Dragon Quest XI
>Final Fantasy VII Remake
>Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
>Sea of Thieves
>etc

Look at how shit Square Enix is. Their custom engines are absolute shit tier. I wish those japs would wisen up and stop releasing half assed buggy shit.

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>before
>use quake engine

>now
>use unreal

Fixed

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>>388418142
>UE is a shit engine, designed for PCs, not meant for consoles at all and on PC you can simply tell the customer to buy a better PC
>tfw running UT4 on my 8 years old CPU
>>388418343
This, and incidentally the problem is in big part because of the underpowered CPUs that don't really match the GPUs efficiently in most cases.

>>388418458
then it was another indie game but i remember one where the guy made his own engine and then the game

People really hate Unreal and Unity without really having any concrete reason why. Bad games are made on the engine, so suddenly they write it off. It's such a fucking /v/ thing to screech about.

>>388418479
>mostly japanese devs who cant code properly anyway
whoa
what a surprise

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UE is a great engine, 4 is many orders of magnitude better than the crap heap that was 3. Unity is kind of crap and you should be ashamed of using it. With that being said all the porn games on unity makes me glad it exists.

>>388418479
Tekken 7 has a longer loading time than Wildlands which is an open world game for fucks sake

>>388418610
Shit game devs who are too stingy to even buy the full license of Unity and Unreal.

Therefore their games constantly spam the Unity/Unreal logo in players faces and people associate the engine with shitty games

>>388417206
>we
>we

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Only armchair devs and ignorant retards think that "making your own engine" is a better idea than using Unity or Unreal.

The only time you would make your own engine is if
>modifying an existing one wasn't viable for your needs
>you don't want to pay 5% to Epic Games
Apart from that there is no good reason that would outweigh the benefits of using say UE4. Especially since making a new solid enginge from the ground up is both time consuming and expensive.

>>388412505
>I don't know what an engine is
How dumb you are aside, making a game engine from scratch is VERY expensive for modern games.

>>388413485

>/v/ - Technology illiterate

>>388417885
>for retro bullshit
fucking mongoloid
the thing is that C as well as C++ are supported by basically everything including toasters. And it puts out fast code.

That's why for example ScummVM - you know that silly "tiny" open source project, which supports tons of games is able to support tons of platforms including older ones.
Because they didn't use retarded C#, but instead C++. And games run fast, even on very weak hardware.
And it will still run on the latest hardware, even when Microsoft drops all support for C#, just like they always do.

>for retro bullshit
yeah, let's re-buy all games every generation.

>Unity works totally on all sorts of platforms
oops, some issue happened with the Wii U target, who the fuck knows what, so we can't release Yooka Laylee on it. Well, who the fuck gives a shit.

>>388418865
came here to post this desu.

it always cracks me up when /v/irgins sperg about devs using ue4 or unity instead of coding their own engine. programmers have always gone with the path of least resistance and reused assets if it still accomplishes the goal.

go ahead autismos, write your own engine. let me know how many thousands, millions of lines you write.

then debug it.

>>388418142

Dude, I was trying to make a joke ;_; Silly one, granted but still. Because you know, Ninja Theory, Ninja Practice. G-get it?

>>388418602

Well that's a lot of help.

If you want an example of something you take for granted that an engine does for developers. Imagine displaying a graphic on screen. With an engine you load a file and place it at specific co-ordinates. Probably takes a line or two.

If you did this yourself, first you'd need to understand the structure of the file type you want to load. You'd need to read in the data and translate it into pixels and colours.
Then you'd need to define your own window and set up a system to define and handle co-ordinates.
Then you need to handle drawing things to the actual window based on the data you've read in and co-ordinates you've assigned it. You'll probably need to learn what buffering is and how shaders work just to do this.

This is days, if not weeks worth of effort and requires a very good knowledge of how computers work at the very lowest level.
Don't even get me started on porting shit to other operating systems, because they handle files and file types differently among many other things.

It's highly unlikely any 1 man indie developer has ever made their own engine. More than likely they used an engine and then made their own set of tools to make development easier (like a map editor or some such thing).

So there are more people easily make their own games. What's bad about this?

>>388413485
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>388418865
>Having to debug and optimize your engines performance across every generation of AMD/nVidia and Intel CPUs
Sounds completely horrible.

>>388418258
>NT is trash as expected, but even then the PC version of DmC:DmC was easy as shit to run at constant 60FPS.
>even then

You fucking understand that UE is a crappy engine designed for PCs, that's the whole problem. On PCs you can simply throw more powerful hardware at it. You can also throw more RAM at it. You can also rely on games being installed on a harddrive, which loads data way faster than a disc drive like on PS3 or 360.

That's one of the fucking problems and which is why almost all UE games run like crap on consoles.

On PC you have to be really really awful to make it so that a game can not run at all at 60 fps or more.

>>388418265
Yes, they are trash. I know. That's why full game installations are required. And the games still run like trash. I don't want to know how bad those games would run without full game installations to a HDD.

>>388418343
>Console games always run like shit
millennial detected

Maybe at some point get yourself a PS2. Or a Gamecube. Or a Wii. Or even a Wii U.
Tons of rock solid 60 fps games on those.

>>388416146
If they took the years of dev time spent on the fox engine and instead used it on the game itself we might have had a completed MGSV.

>>388419164
thanks for the pointless spoonfeeding
i know programming and how it works
doesnt change the fact that what i said is true

there are plenty of indie games where they made their own engines

>>388412505
It's like they learned from FF14 1.0

>>388412505
I am pretty damn certain the first rule of programming is "copypaste and edit something someone else made and then present it as yours"

>>388419475
>there are plenty of indie games where they made their own engines

yeah, if the game is very basic

>>388418859
Me*

>being autistic

>>388419164

Want an example of how difficult reading in an image actually is in C++?

Most people use a library to read in a png file, something like libpng. Libpngs source code is like over 100,000 lines long. 100,000+ lines of code to translate the raw data included in a file into a usable format.

This is why people don't make their own engines if they do not have to.

>>388419013
Well you'll be happy to know Unity has a conversion to go from JIT compiled C# to compiled C++ with or without its safeguards for things like null reference exception handling if you want extra performance and think your code is airtight.

>>388419183
>What's bad about this?
the current state of gaming.

>>388419013
Game companies are far more open to smaller and indie devs running managed code on their regular consoles, rather then giving full low level access to unsigned binaries which takes a shitton of licensing, dedicated dev kit hardware and money to make it all happen.

.NET isn't gonna die as long as Microsoft lives and even if Microsoft dies open source is more then capable of keeping it alive.

Please do tell us of your epic new Atari game that's gonna BTFO Blizzard and EA coming out later this year.

>>388412920
Wait, what's a better engine? Taking into account lighting, physics, etc, I feel like UE4 is the best available right now.

>>388419260
>On PC you have to be really really awful to make it so that a game can not run at all at 60 fps or more.
There's a long list of caveats to that statement

>>388419325
I own those consoles.
Yeah, it there a few 60fps games such as smash and GoW which runs at 40-50fps.
The last decade however consoles have been performing like ass. It already got worst with the 360 and PS3, but this gen they fucked up completely where nowadays trying to get a game running on console is a bigger hassle than getting it running on PC.
Sony already released the PS4 pro which still doesn't hit the promised target of 60fps by miles while Microsoft is already on its 3rd xbone revision.
Consoles today are a fucking joke.

>>388419545
nope
i just googled it and The Witness and Path of Exile use their own engines
the developer itself stated that PoE's engine was written by 1 man their lead programmer

>Our lead programmer wrote our engine and server infrastructure himself.
its up on reddit

>>388419630
Yeah, the era where the argument of "hurr why not just make your own damn game then" is possible now

>>388419589
Yeah and the fucking edge cases are murder, if you write your own importers or parsers there's always edge cases you didn't think of beforehand which turns into an endless supply of bug fixes for a tool someone else wrote ages ago and has already gone through the process of making reliable.

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>>388413485
>an engine really only should take a month or so to make if you're actually competent
if your IQ is equal to our current year, sure thats possible

production ready realtime ray tracing engine when

>>388419703
Even if that was true that doesn't change the fact that those games are basic.

Mechanically you can make both games in Unreal very quickly.

See >>388418865
That still applies. You need to have a very good reason to make your own enginge, especially for bigger and more advanced games.

This idea that Unity and UE4 is shit and making your own enginge is superior so so fucking stupid and ignorant.

>>388419856
When we have computers with dedicated quantum lighting processors plugged in next to our GPUs.

As usual, /v/ knows SHIT about engines.
You can make fantastic games in whatever engine you chose if you're actually a decent programmer. If you're a lazy piece of shit you'll just sprout shit games regardless of engine.

Building your own engine is completely useless today. Wasted time and work not only in creating said engine and making it decent to work with but also wasting time to get the team to learn how to use it.

And /v/ eats up GameMaker games all the fucking time regardless.

>>388419665

Unreal and Unity are both fine engines. Unreal is probably more powerful but also more difficult to use.

The real problem with these engines is how they handle licensing. Basically unless a developer pays the unreal/unity logo gets slapped on their game.
Most of the shit games are made with the free versions and you see this logo so you associate it with shit games. Meanwhile the good games made by people willing to invest money into it don't have this logo or splash screen, so you never see it and never associate these good games with this engine.

You couldn't list all the good Unity games, because they paid the licensing fee and do not have the "made with unity" splash screen slapped on them. By extension you don't associate good games with Unity.

>>388419602
brilliant idea
>use a crappy Microsoft language to create something
>tell that crappy Microsoft language to create shitty C++ code
>oh damn, there are issues left and right and the C++ compiler of that one platform doesn't like that code because of some BS Microsoft built in (probably intentionally)
>oh wow, on that one platform there is SDL support, on the other one there isn't and you need to do it natively
>oh wow, SDL support on that one platform has this issue, which was never fixed
>let's manually adjusted the crappy Microsoft C++ code to make it all work

you surely know a lot about cross platform development.
Only morons would lock themselves into something that Microsoft created. Some people learn from the past. Others are doomed to repeat it.

>>388412505
Making in-house engine require more time, effort, thus leading into more cost and on the top of that their engine usually don't perform any better than engine sold out there if not they both perform so-so, it's just much more cheaper & easier to buy a license.
Then again, more bigger and more competent dev still make & use their own engine nowadays.

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Build is the best engine ever made, prove me wrong

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AAA game studios literally have to wait for AMD and nVidia to re-write their 400MB and growing driver package just to add some more shitty hacks so their newly released games have somewhat acceptable performance, borderline stability and no terrible graphic glitches.

That's how much of a clusterfuck 3D graphics are right now.

>>388420241
It doesn't have TempleOS compatibility.

>>388419651
>.NET isn't gonna die as long as Microsoft lives
kek
you should educate yourself on what Microsoft has already done since they started and why no one with a brain trusts that company.
I'm absolutely certain .NET will die off way before Microsoft bites the dust. That's what Microsoft always does.

>open source is more then capable of keeping it alive.
kek
sure do, if you believe so.

>Please do tell us of your epic new Atari game that's gonna BTFO Blizzard and EA coming out later this year.
Are you retarded, anon?
I never said I was into current game development. I'm working in my free time for various open source projects, some are gaming related, others are not. And for a living I work on medical software, you know software that shouldn't be buggy and shit, because actual lives may depend on it.

>>388414758
The market is stupid

>>388420286
80% of the time it's NVIDIA titles that suffer form optimization issues too.

>>388420286
Once in a blue moon, the newer driver size will slightly shrink, but that's probably when they just got so bored and decide to weed out some trash out of the package.

>>388420286

Tell me about it. Working with 3D is a nightmare. It's got to be the most badly designed, awkward to use shit ever.
Most of it's retarded as fuck and you just have to ask yourself "why the fuck would you do it this way?".

>>388420053
I've never actually had anyone consider C# crappy, that's a really weird opinion.

The C++ conversion is by the Unity team, they are the ones who determine how the code is interpreted and you can even check the output for yourself.

Currently this setup is used with Unity on every single console or mobile device, only PC sees little benefit from switching away from the mono backend.

Your points don't really make any sense since this system has been in use for a while now without issue. I bet you think Valve's D3D to OpenGL conversion library is shit too.

>>388413358
you obviously never played Paragon to tell bullshit like that
character trailers are literally the same as the game, it's not something like Overwatch where you have "The plan" done on the game engine and then you got "Rise and shine" done on an entirely different software for moviemaking, here they are making the plan but it's as beautiful as Rise and shine because the engine is really really good itself. Plus, it's a really well optimized game for me on a potato.

>>388420501

C# is a great language. It's insane how elegant and easy it is to use.

The problem with C# is it's integration into everything is bad. Not really a C# problem, just a problem with everything else. Unity is a good example, C# is great, C# in Unity just leaves you scratching your head.

I kinda want to see what an unreal 4 mmo looks and plays like. I can't really be a fan of ffxiv because the engine holds it back so much, the housing is kinda tacky looking and weak overall, the questing is fucking coma inducing, and other shit that just seems off compared to other mmo's.

>>388419703
They had to work on PoE for three years before they even hit alpha. The Witness took seven years to make.

IMO, engines for games will eventually need to move to open-source. I mean, for example, in quantitative finance, the biggest quant funds are all moving to using python because everything is open-source and tested (and fixed) by virtually every possible person on the planet. Proprietary developing environments are becoming a thing of the past, not because they are expensive, but because they are becoming inferior by not managing to keep up the development speed of the open source environments.

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>>388420347
>Writing medical software in c++
I hope it's nothing life critical

.NET is effectively Java 2.0 and so feature complete at this stage there's not much MS could add that's not marketing BS. It is THE platform for business software.

Even though there's not much new stuff with Java it's still going to be around for the next 15 years easily.

>>388420053
Your post is perfect example of how to spot imbecile who nows nothing about programming.
C# specs are open source, you fucking retard.
It's windows .NET implementation that is proprietary and with relese of .NET core even this stopped to be the case
As for unity, it always used Mono runtime which is completely OSS.
>crappy Microsoft language
good luck finding any modern production ready object oriented language that have something close to LINQ, expression trees and actually usable reflection

>>388417602
When those shitskinned arabians buy a Lamborghini with their petrol dollars they immediately fuck the transmission or crash it in a random street in London. Yet, the Lamborghini is still top-tier. User side of the equation is as important.

>>388420347
>And for a living I work on medical software
How many different platforms are you targeting with that code?

>>388419698
>Consoles today are a fucking joke.
amen to that

>The last decade however consoles have been performing like ass
Only valid for the so called "powerful" consoles
Wii U had tons of 60 fps games.
Like Super Mario 3D World.
Mario Kart 8
Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
Hyrule Warriors
Bayonetta 1+2 (but unstable, well Platinum - what do you expect)
Captain Toad
Smash Bros U
of course SMBU
Splatoon
Yoshi's Woolly World
and I'm sure there are way more.

>Yeah, it there a few 60fps games such as smash and GoW which runs at 40-50fps.
Try:
Jak & Daxter
MGS2
DMC1
DMC3
Timesplitters
GoW 1+2
Tales of Symphonia
Metroid Prime
Super Mario Galaxy 1+2
Super Monkey Ball 1+2
Smash Bros on Wii
Viewtiful Joe 1+2
and so on.

>>388420380
>Once in a blue moon, the newer driver size will slightly shrink
"Why doesn't my 4 year old GPU work with this game anymore? it used to be fine?"

I hate seeing people talk about engines now just as much as I always have.
95% of the people who obsess over game engines don't even know what a game engine does.

I've been triggered by this since
>Gamebryo can't do ladders

Which was almost 10 years ago people started saying dumb things like that, and the level of knowledge has just gotten worse I think.

>>388421210
>Wii U had tons of 60 fps games.
And they all looked like shit

>>388412505
I can't believe there are are still people mad about DMC. Unreal is way better than whatever shitty Japanese engine they used before. Get over it.

>>388412505
Tekken 7 is on UE4 and it's very good. Only a nerd would detect that without knowing.

I discovered it when zooming textures.

>>388412505
Kojima? Is that you?

>>388416921
>HTML is worse programming language

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>>388421295
>Gamebryo can't do ladders
don't know about ladders but it surely have problems with vehicles

>>388421876
>there aren’t physics for making a train car move in the Gamebryo engine, so you’re not actually on the train. Instead, the player is equipped with a piece of head armor that covers the field of view and looks like the inside of a train. Then a camera animation is played that makes it look like you’re on a moving train, but you really just have a helmet on.

>>388422034
>>388421876
>MAN WITH TRAIN HELMET RUNNING INCREDIBLY HIHG SPEED

>>388412505
Dishonored 2 used the custom made Void engine. They should have used the cryengine v like in PREY. That game runs 3x as fast as Dishonored 2

>>388412505
>Implying you or anyone here knows anything about game engines
I wonder does anyone else browse /v/ that gets as irritated as I do when people here talk out their ass about engines.

>>388412505
Anon, a big portion of the games you enjoyed in the early to mid 90's was id Tech 1, Build, Scumm, etc. Late 90's and early 00's were all Quake 2, Quake 3, UE1, UE2, Infinity, etc. Mid to late 00's it was all Doom 3, UE3, MT Framework, Source, Cry Engine. Early 00's was pretty much all UE3 and a bit of Frostbyte 2, and mid to late 00's is all UE4, Unity and a bit of Frostbyte 3.

In house engines are rare because they are expensive to make when someone else already has a fully functional, optimized and dev tool rich engine already developed and easy to license, especially in this generation.

What's cool about Unreal Engine it's consistency. It was shit in 1999 and it's still shit in 2017, you gotta give dev credits for that. Not everyone can polish the turd for nearly 20 years and still get an unpolished turd.

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Is this the thread where we talk shit about dead games? OP's pic related

>>388420380
AMD removed the old remnants of CCC in the last driver, which was a bloated .NET crap, so their package now weighs ~300mb.

>>388412505
> Jury rig said engine to do what you want and hope for the best
In which recent game has this been a problem?

>>388418965
>1 person says incorrect thing
>everyone disagrees
>haha /v/ is full of morons xD
kys

>>388423349
>LITTLE GIRL GETS FUCKING DRILLED.jpg
Fucking sickening

>>388413485
a-are you.. the next steve jobs ?!?

>>388412505
Tfw fox engine went to waste
KOJIMAAA

>>388412505
After SE luminous engine, I'm not sure buy UE4 is a bad thing now

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To actual /agdq/fags or developers/programmers here, what actually makes a good engine? I'm not a amateur dev at all. Although, it seems like a lot of the engines here discussed in this thread as "being good" are just a bunch of proprietary closed-source engines we don't know shit about (concerning the technical/programming aspects) outside of them being used in a game(s) we like and subjectively think are pretty.

I wouldn't mind that so much if games on Unity and UE didn't all have shit physics.

I wonder how Decima will working out for Death Stranding.

>>388414908
cry engine is dead.

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>>388412505
18 months

>>388418479
>FF7R
>Unreal 4

Lel, i bet you 100 bucks it will be moved to Luminous
& PS5

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Was there really a need for a new fucking engine to be developed for this? Catherine was made on Gamebryo and that looked just fine. What was the point exactly for P5?

>>388421004
>LINQ
this shit is a fucking miracle

>>388421785
>html
>programming language

i hope this is bait

It's not 1995 anymore, 3D graphics and renderers have gotten infinitely more complicated and making a modern AAA engine is a lot harder than it was back in the day.
Now making modern engines is a colossal investment, which is why you see publishers going with using one engine for most of their titles, (like Frostbite for EA, Decima for Sony, or Anvil/AnvilNext for Ubisoft)

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>Game Studio is developing a game on Gambryo
>Have to lose months of precious development time to develop things that doesn't work on Gambryo, like ladders
>Have to cut so much content that they ended up making an entire game (Dragon Commander) with Divinity's 2's cut content
>Game is released with ton of Gamebryo bugs that were never ironed out for the last 15+ years
>Critics and players pans the game at release for being a buggy piece of shit
>Dev changed game engine between release and the first expansion
>Game is well liked now

Picture related, also, New Vegas

>>388426006
They changed the engine? Sounds like you probably made that up, source?

>>388414453
PhyreEngine is an absolute piece of shit, by the way, you'd almost be fucking better off doing it from scratch desu.

Ue4 is good though

It took ea and Ubisoft just as long to make their meme engines and even then they struggled to catch up with ue4

>>388412920
>if it works out right.

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>>388415085
>I don't know why they just didn't make MT Framework 3.
There are quite a few reasons for walking away from an old engine: the tool chain may be too old, paying down technical debt may be too difficult (shitty code, increasingly obscure languages), it can be cheaper and easier to start fresh with newer middle wares.

>>388417073
>C is portable
Provided you aren't changing architectures.
Provided you aren't engaging in bit level hacking.
Provided you aren't making system specific calls.
Provided you have source or support to compile and link ALL the libraries in the build chain.
It's great if you need speed above all else and can avoid all the security antics with strings and buffer overflows.
Modern JIT compilers are surprisingly good today, and C# can be compiled down to binary if need be.

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>>388417073
>C++ is portable

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>>388413485
Go ahead then, try it. Get back to us in a month and let us know your results.

>>388412920
ubisoft have the amazing ubiart engine, snowdrop is pretty amazing too.

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>>388417073
>all this retardation
Wannabe Dev

>>388424586
Documentation.

>>388426603
>Provided you aren't making system specific calls.

C is portable unless you actively break portability. Great argument.

>Provided you have source or support to compile and link ALL the libraries in the build chain.

What are you even arguing? That you have to build and link all the libraries instead of... some of them? Are you talking about relying on esoteric libraries with only a single dev maintaining them?

>>388426301
They didn't. They just updated it.

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there's nothing wrong with using already made tools
but most people don't know how use them properly and that's the issue

>>388424586
Engines are usually good at specific things. Some engines are really got at rendering, others have excellent middleware support, some might have really robust particle tools. It all comes down to the specifics of the project, there's no "best" engine..

Even UE4 and Unity, as generalist as they are, are invariably modified a lot to suit the needs of the developers, which is why you get franken-engines like all the different heavily modified version of UE3 that exist (Xcom 2, Batman Arkham, Call of Duty MW3 etc)

>>388424386
Wasn't even all that nice of an engine. From a consumer prespective I mean.

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>>388427167
What, you don't think drag-and-drop developers know what they're doing?

>>388424586
Documentation and Community.

>>388427273
> Having to go through every single check every time any teacher checks itself for any reason

Jesus fucking christ, learn to use cases you retard.

>>388424234
kys ur kys niggersweet

>>388426947
>>388427324
This.

Ever wonder why Western-made PS3 games were really badly optimised early on in that gen? It's because all of the english documentation was really shit.

Also Ninja Theory wanted to use MT Framework for DmC, but Capcom refused to translate the documentation.

>>388427416
>all those checks
>not one of them is for their exoskelloteen
Their team is going to get wrecked.

>>388425026
PS2 is rather a case of underfunded studio owned by a venture company with no proper coders onboard. That's why it still runs like crap even after they outsourced optimizations to a third party company.

>>388414453
>Fox Engine was okay
It was more then okay, a fucking toaster can play Phantom Pain. Biggest crime that Konami has a hold of it and only use it for pachinko and PES games

>>388427672
They paid for it's, it's their engine. If you want to blame somebody, then it's Kojima.

>>388425294
"Looking just fine" doesn't matter if it's hell to work with, or the next game needs things the engine can't produce. As you can see with the ladder/train posts above, Gamebryo has a lot of weird quirks to it.

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>>388413485
>Source: My Ass
This better be bait anon, otherwise you need to go check your nearest lost and found because I think you're missing quite a few brain cells.

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>>388421876

>>388413485

That ET game was done in under a week, hes right

>>388427416
There is so much more problems than that in the code, why is the fuck is everything just hardcoded strings? Who does that?

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>>388427416
Switch statements are still retarded for that purpose, it should be more elegantly abstracted away somewhere else. Notice how the options are flag permutations being hard-coded as strings for some insane reason. This is also why nobody should ever approach a game engine without at least freshman knowledge of common practices.

>>388427712
Of course it's their engine, that's not the issue here. The point is that you'd think Konami would at least sell usage rights to different companies.

>>388426746

Kinda reminds me how I once had a problem with C++ program that had to approx data, carried it to my profesor and was surprised to found out that once he compiled it on his machine, it worked completely different.

Inb4 "lol why C++" the answer is simple - on every single fucking programming related subject on my uni, me and other students were basically told "you can write in any language you want BUT we will only help you if you will write in C++". And one subject basically forced C++ because of heavy usage of ROOT library (I fucking hate programming since then, holy shit, who makes functions with shitload of variables and DONT INCLUDE DEFAULT VALUES HOLY SHIT if some Stallman's cousin needs to tweak with that function over there, dont assume that everyone else will).

>>388426603

Holy shit I love Metal Fatigue.

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>>388412505
Don't blame the tool, OP. Xrd is made in unreal, so it's all about how the developers use it.

>>388427509
>Also Ninja Theory wanted to use MT Framework for DmC, but Capcom refused to translate the documentation.
It was the other way around. Capcom wanted them to use MT Framework and offered to translate it, but NT wanted to use UE instead since that's what they were familiar with.

>>388427672
A toaster could play it because it looks like a fairly mediocre seventh gen game.
Though it ran like absolute garbage on the PS3, well, GZ did at least.

>>388412719
>Invest massive time to re-invent the wheel over and over
You do know UE4 source code for the engine in full available to anyone, and you can extend the engine anyway you need, right?

Why would you rewrite collision detection, rendering engines, input systems, etc... for every single game? That's literally retarded.
You know nothing about development.

>>388427950
>once he compiled it on his machine, it worked completely different.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that you were using different compilers, or at least versions? Were you interacting with drivers in any way? These problems aren't very common at all if the dev environments are standardized.

>>388422034
Actually, it's an NPC who has the train hat, not the player.
Also vertibirds are just pre-made animations.

>>388412505
>Why is this new system better than the old one

Because the engine is already made and you don't have to waste time or resources just to make the foundation and ground work for it?

Either way, custom engine or no, you'll always have to end up jury rigging something in engine to get your game to be the way you want it to be. The only difference is with engines like Unity and Unreal, you won't be spending many months to many years to achieve the same base level of features they have.

We're also in a time to where game engines are opening up their source code to people (except Unity for some stupid reason), and there is no barrier of entry, so why would you waste the time and effort to make something on par with those engines instead of simply just using them and expanding upon them?

It's also better for users because UE4 modding is trivial to do

>>388428237
Or he was on a different but supported platform. Line Windows, OS X, or Linux have different STL implementations.
You can abuse undefined behavior that it out of spec, but it's not guaranteed to behave same across all platforms.

>>388428237

Different versions. But at least that day I learned how important thing it is.

But I still didnt find out what was wrong with that program and passed the subject with worse grade.

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>>388427672
>a fucking toaster can play Phantom Pain
When will this meme end? Even Lords of the Fallen scaled better. MGS V's biggest accomplishment was running on the 360/ps3 but that version had atrocious pop-in, ran at an atrocious resolution, and the framerate was still shite to top it all off.

Wait, people complaining about unreal engine 4?
I thought that it was one of the most (if not the most) powerful engine?
That it can do stuff like voxel global illumination, etc?
As a gamer ,unreal engine is a sign of quality since pretty much every game on it run well.

>>388428237
Could be differences in the implementation of something like libc or some other common libraries if it was on different platforms

>>388419665
Source 2

>>388428693
Looks fine, hate to work with it. And their documentation sucks ass.

>>388428776
>Using documentation
The best tools are for hackers only.
Manual reading rule followers need not apply.

>>388428505
>>388428698

True, but platform inconsistencies are completely different beasts, and I wouldn't bother shitting on the language for that reason alone. Differing compiler versions, however, is just bullshit behavior. Unless the prof specified a build environment, it shouldn't detract from your grades.

>>388428749
Source is not a good engine (and also uses Havok for physics).
>>388419665
>Physics
Physics is rarely handled by the engine and should be handled by middleware like Havok, PhysX, Vortex or Bullet.

>>388428776
>And their documentation sucks ass

You haven't seen shitty documentation until you use Unity or especially Cryengine/Lumberyard.

UE4's documentation is pretty much a work of art compared to those.

>>388429017
Ok, people that actually make money with programming need documentation though. Go play your hacker toys or whatever.

>>388429167
source 2 doesn't use havoc.

Its mostly fine. The problem is that premade engines comes with stuff(frame stability/cap, shaders, animations) that isn't intended for production use, only demo usage.
But devs do not replace them, and it looks like crap.

>>388429050
>abusing undefined behavior = shitting on the language
>caring about some retard giving you magic points
Are you sure you really want to be an Engineer?

>>388429210
Unity is fine, unless you need stuff for the new timeline.
Unreal is a trashfire. Fuck them.

>>388429017
hahaha HAHAHAHA

>Fox Engine is forever stuck to PES

Fuck this gay earth.

>>388429286
>Engineer
>refusing the rules and hierarchy
lol drop out fantasies.

>>388428749
Isn't even out yet (game specific SDKs don't count), so we really have no idea just how "good" it is. I also doubt it's as expansive as UE4 is. Valve's engines are usually tailor made for first person experiences, so Source 2 (especially with its apparent focus on VR) is probably going to be the same.

>>388429167
Source 2 uses Rubikon (an in house made physics engine) instead of Havok. While we can't tell if that's a good or bad thing yet, I figured I'd just correct this for you.

>>388429462
I really doubt Source2 will have a heavy focus on FPS, considering their own recent games don't. In fact the whole source2 thing came from a Dota2 leak a few years back, didn't it? A game playing in eagle-eye view?

Its so obvious people who think OP is right have never programmed a fucking line of code in their lives. There is nothing wrong with Unreal 4. Its sophisticated enough to produce something like Guilty Gear Xrd for fuck's sake.

>>388429213
I hope you are joking.
Who do you think gets paid more:

1. Person who reads book and follows instructions.
2. Person who hacks new creative solutions to "impossible problems" not documented according to Person 1.

>>388414908
the major use of unreal comes from I imagine the easier development of console ports

I'm a sucker for good particles : I remember crysis 3 where the smoke was influenced by explosions or materials.
Why in every game the smoke/clouds/fire look like 2d sprite with out volume?
Is there a reason?

>>388429783
Because they use 2D sprites without volume.

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>>388429684
Trick question, Person 2 doesn't even get employed in the first place

>>388429684

1) because they can work in teams, do things faster and dont reinvent the wheel. Maybe that will be shock for you but manuals and documentation, when you actually read them, covers most of the problems user might encounter. Those 10% they dont gets workaround.

>>388412719
>>388412920
If AAA companies started hiring actual talented programmers instead blowing millions on hacky writers and marketing they'd be able to develop a solid engine that'd last for a few years.
Pre-made engines should only be used by smaller teams.

>>388429612
But you also have to remember that Valve is heavily focusing on VR right now, and VR is pretty much a first person experience.

Point is, Source 2 will never be as expansive as something like UE4 which can go from linear FPS corridors to massive open worlds for MMORPGs.

Not to mention Source itself is still heavily based on code from the Quake Engine days, so it's pretty much still tailor made for smaller tighter FPS games at is core.

>>388430178
Yeah, and if you wouldn't spend your time posting nonsense on this board for years you could actually do something useful and make your parents proud for a change.

>>388412505
Because you don't need high tier programmers.

>>388430262
My parents are dead, jerk.

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>>388430232
>Valve is heavily focusing on VR right now
Is VR thing still going on?

>>388412505
Because it's cheaper and quicker to do. This is a business not a charity geared towards fags like you. Why do you ask a question I know damn well you know the answer to?

>>388430232
>But you also have to remember that Valve is heavily focusing on VR right now
That remains to be seen. I don't trust them anymore, they'll drop it like anything else that isn't instant success for them. I give them 2 more years until they sell it off completely to HTC.
>>388430383
What a shame, dying being embarrassed by your offspring.

>>388412505
congratulations you won the most ignorant post of the year prize

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Why is Unreal bad?

>>388430410
>Never tried the headset
It's huge.

They are getting into multiplayer online avatars, virtual rooms, etc..
You thought nerds were crazy about second life and selling virtual items for piles of cash?

Valve is king of selling digital items.

>>388430486
Your counter arguments were very convincing.

>>388430616
Counter arguments to what exactly?

>>388421210
Gears of War 1 is 30 fps.

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>>388413485

More like

Before
> waste significant part of your budget and all other resources to actually make the engine for your own game, which could be brought to make features, and all the other good stuff.
> make clunky engine because you do not have enough expirience to make it perfect nor time to test it throughly (and that time was wasted on the engine creation)
> have to re-use your engine even though you make whole new game where old engine will be not fitting in some cases or simply outdated. So you either modify engine, which eats your resources again, either cut features or graphics to maintain performance or cut critical bugs.

Now
> have all-ready to work around engine, designed to be simple to used yet impressive in performance by dedicated and experienced in that people, including documentation and manuals by authors and other developers throughout the web.
> have a plethora of variants to chose, of engines and license models to purchase them. As well as fully compatible assets and other parts.

So what was the question again?

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>>388413463
because the showoff demos of superrealistic graphics in Unreal consist of a single room and realistically no actual game will use that much quality on any game asset or level

>>388430410
Considering Valve is one of the main developers trying to push it, yes. It's still going on there.

In what capacity, we don't know, but they pretty much stated that most of their upcoming games are going to be VR titles.

>>388430590
Because it's harder to use than Unity, so people just give it a try, whine about it being "too hard", and go back to using Unity.

>>388412719
You've clearly never worked with UE4. Its C++ documentation is fucking horrific.

But even so, licencing engines makes sense. Especially UE, because it's open source. It can be tuned for your needs, just all the bullshit work is done for you.

>>388430590
It isn't.
The tools are just easier now so unskilled developers start pouring in.
Associating poor quality developers with the quality of the tools they use is a fallacy.

>>388428594
I don't know wtf this benchmark is from, I could get a solid 60fps at 1080p with almost everything at max in MGSV on a 660ti and a first run i5.

>>388428594
>LotF
>better optimized than MGSV
This is a load of bullshit and you know it.

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>>388412505

Remind me why Unreal engine is bad again? Because firstly, the only thing wrong with Unreal 3 was that it had crazy LOD popin, incredibly recognizable graphics, and was very easy to use, so lots of shit devs would use it.

However, UE4 looks a lot better than a lot of engines out there now, and the only complaints I hear from anyone in regards to it are waves of shitters who 99% likely don't know a smidget of jack shit about game engine development, let alone any ounce of any form of game development beyond what they've seen or heard from a fucking dev commentary on geography-culling.

If devs are abandoning an engine they worked hard on for UE4, then there must be a very good reason why.

Also, because I have to get this shit in somewhere,
>playing fucking MOBAs

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Painkiller HD devs had to rewrite huge chunks of UE3 engine because in it's default state it couldn't accurately support the kind of arena shooter movement.

And you guys wonder why devs don't make fast paced FPS anymore

>>388431098
Yeah how do you read comments or browse header ans source files?

// 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647
int a = 2;
// 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647
int b = 5;
// Math function that reads in the value at the address of int a, which is a 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647,
// and adds it to the value at address of int b, which is a 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647,
// and sets the value at address of int c, which is a 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647.
int c = a + b;

// Prints the value at the address of int c, which is a 32 bit memory variable that can store numbers from 0 to 2,147,483,647.
// Also prints a new line feed to the stdout
printf("%d\n", c);

What would we do without documentation?

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>>388431609
>Why do you don't like this
>I only hear complaints from people I ignore
Ok, keep talking with a wall then if that helps with your ego problems.

>>388431651

Any dev who adopts any engine has to rewrite code no matter what to get things to work the way they want. You don't just adopt an engine and expect everything to be in tune to what you want it to do exactly.

You fags know fuck-all about game development, holy FUCK.

Is it true that ue4 has a big issue with input lag?

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>>388431667
That's not documentation you complete imbecile. It's fucking comments.

>>388431804

>/v/ in charge of making video games

>>388431912
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
What do you think comments are for? letting developers know your favorite color?

Have you ever used an IDE with type hinting?

>>388431609
It's not bad. OP just doesn't understand anything about game development. In most cases, taking something like UE4 and modifying it to your needs is far more efficient than making an entirely new engine.

>>388432151
I don't even know what to say to you. You literally know fuck all and can't even grasp the difference between documentation and commenting.

>>388432151
Not all of the commenting is that verbose, but I do agree, it's got much better over time.
My old problem with UE is the fact the only seem to care about their blueprint interface. It's shit.

>>388431667
>this is the programming knowledge of the people who act like online gurus that talk in the name of all superior engineers of the planet
Please nigga that's like chris chan making art tutorial

>>388431667
Lol, that's not documentation you fucking retard.

>>388432259
You do know most documentation is generated from source code and just output to html so you can browse it without an IDE or the source code, right?

If you already have both the IDE and source code with type hinting what exactly do you need the website for? You have a built in search and contextual documentation.

Holy shit do you niggers really write in notepad text editors and use web browsers to look up the library methods?

>/v/ thinks they know anything about game development: The Thread

These threads are always fun to sift through.

>>388412505
aren't there other engines? why do they only license those two?

>>388428594
I use a fucking 560Ti for which I need to underclock without the driver crashing and I had stable 60fps

Not sure about the quality, I think most stuff was set to "High" though

>>388431667
>error: initializer element is not constant|
>error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before string constant|
>error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before 'c'|
>warning: data definition has no type or storage class|
>warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'printf'|
>error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'would'|

Nice code.

what game

>>388432515
The joke went above your head.
Over-documenting trivial code.

If you have the source code what more do you need a few beyond high level comments to save time and the actual code?
Do you need someone to read and interpret it all for you and write you a book on it?

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>>388432634
Did you hit your fucking head or something? Or are you just spouting nonsense? Where did
>Holy shit do you niggers really write in notepad text editors and use web browsers to look up the library methods?
retardation come from?

You paste code that *comments* lines in code, shit you won't see even with type hinting you complete moron. Documentation is for classes, functions, enum whatever the fuck, but not for every single line of your code you product of 3 generations of incest.

When people talk about Documentation, they talk about the fucking API documentation. Not about the fucking reminder comments you write because you can't remember the max value of an integer.
>>388432910
>If you have the source code
We're talking about third party engines here. Unity for example, is not open.

>>388431609
man ue3 games were ugly. everything looked like it was made out of clay.

>>388431384
>almost everything at max
That benchmark is running everything maxed. If you lowered the settings on every other game on that list they would continue to scale batter than MGS V. These benchmarks also take averages under various different scenarios into account btw. Achieving 60 fps while you're staring at a wall and there's nothing else going on around you means nothing.
>>388431554
It is, those benchmarks prove it. Oh, but I'm sure you can run MGS V on your DOS computer but you won't actually post proofs because you don't have the game installed or whatever. I've heard it all before.

>>388432824
>copy pasting code at all
>copy pasting psudo code
>copy pasting ironic psudo code used as a joke

Are you honestly telling me you cannot compile one of the worlds most simple programs?
Include stdio header and wrap it in a function.

>>388431047
Check paragon, yeah it's a moba, but by far the most good looking one and uses a lot of 3d elements.

>>388433075
We are also talking about UE4 LACK OF DOCUMENTATION.
UE4 gives anyone the complete source code to the engine.

Thanks for enlightening me on what WE are talking about.

>>388433207
Could you say it has actual graphics?

>>388433156
That's the joke, retard.

>>388427509
Fuck off Tameem, Other way around, Capcom offerered a translated glorious MT Framework and you and your nigger studio turned it down out of laziness, just fuck off and die Tameem, just fuck off

So are 3d artists getting lazy as well because they use zbrush or 3ds to make their assets rather than writing out their own tools?
Unreal4 is slowly approaching a brick wall but it's not completely used up, it mostly just seems that way because of people adopting the drag and drop developer policy
The only new engine that's absolutely necessary is an alternative to Gamebryo that isn't 50% made of cardboard

>>388433091

Yeah, wasn't until around GoW3 that they finally tuned it to not look muddy, shiny, and everything finally looked decent.

Basically, it took them fucking forever to develop surfaces that didn't vary between WET, METAL, or MUDDY.

>>388425026
>>388427597
More specifically, the genius who made the bulk of the engine quit the team, and the guys still with the team are mostly swinging blind.

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>>388433245
No one said it lacks documentation, people say it's TRASH. Good to know that your reading comprehension would even make your own comments wasted on you.
And no one wants to dig through the source code either just to do the job the developer was supposed to do in the first place.
>the documentation is shit
>no it isn't, you can just look up the source code :-)
Fuck you.

>>388433075
Oh also, APIs give you access to methods, and those methods already show you all the parameters you pass and the return type.

A short description that explains what the method returns in different conditions, or what it does is all you need, otherwise go look in the fucking code.

You only need API documentation when they refuse to give you the source code because you have no other options.

>>388413337
*only indies are made on Unity and Game Maker Studio

>>388433486
t. unemployed hobby dev

>>388418756
>all the porn games on unity
???

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>>388432634
>You do know most documentation is generated from source code and just output to html so you can browse it without an IDE or the source code, right?
That's not how documentation is written at all.

>>388412505
>Every game looks like the last one you played, because they're all made in Unreal.

>>388433609
He probably means documentation tools that generate docs out of your function/class comments. Stuff like //// in C# .NET

Has anyone in this thread even bothered to explain why Unreal or other engines are bad, besides just saying "they're bad"?

>>388433768
Have you actually bothered to read this thread?

Some people don't like how Unity is doing things (closed source for example). Some people don't like how Unreal is doing things (shit documentation, blueprints).

Bottom line is, use whatever you want.

>>388412920
this is retarded, if you're a seasoned programmer that can make your own engine you could also make unreal engine efficient for your game as the entire thing is open source

on top of that the already existing features make ue4 a better investment

>>388433441
>No one said it lacks documentation

>>388417639
>Very well documented
>UE4

>>388428776
And their documentation sucks ass.

Do you get used to being wrong all the time or are you just so oblivious to the reality going on around you that you never seem to notice?

>>388433296
It has, even on low specs it looks better than most other games.

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>>388434146
Is english your second language or what are you trying to say with your post? Not one of those posts says it LACKS documentation.

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>>388433768
Idk why they hate the engine but the unreal dk is annoyingly drag n dropper friendly, it makes all sorts of gross sound effects click on different buttons
Function wise it's fine though

>>388434146
"Lack" does not mean the same thing as "bad". UE4 has poorly written documentation, but it doesn't lack it.

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>>388432819
Proofs? Everyone always claims that they have this ancient graphics card that can run every video game ever made at a perfect 60fps, maxed out, so I'm sorry if I don't believe you when you say that you actually posses and anomalous card like that.

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>ITT: people pretending they know shit about engines
this is unreal
oh no look at how gritty, realistic and bland this game is ! oh noooo, bloody unreal is corrupting the game industry !
studios are entirely responsible for their poor art direction choices, not engines.

>>388434659
We're talking about working with these engines, not just gawking at them like useless children, i.e. you.

>>388434353
I don't even understand what you are calling documentation then.
Are you calling that like examples, guides, writeups that tell you how to do things?

How do you fuck up with one to two sentence method descriptions? You either convey the meaning or you didn't elaborate enough.

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>>388435208
Can you just go back to whatever highschool java course you came out of?

>>388429286
If you're at uni and don't care about grades, why even bother? Did your mum yell at you?

I'm talking about the guy that complained about C++ because he didn't have enough experience with compilers.

>>388413485
>this got 19 replies

>>388435208
>Documentation (noun)
>1. the use of documentary evidence.
>2. a furnishing with documents, as to substantiate a claim or the data in a book or article.
>3. Computers. manuals, listings, diagrams, and other hard- or soft-copy written and graphic materials that describe the use, operation, maintenance, or design of software or hardware

Here's the UE4 documentation.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/