>playing fighting game >*obstructs your passageway* >DP

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Hit the training mode and practice the input.
Duh.

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let's talk about this, why the fuck are people having trouble with this motion?

>>388371936
plagueofgripes can always play a visual novel if he's having so much trouble playing games that require execution

Aren't fighting games just shitty rhythm games?

>>388371936
The game is already dumbed down as it is because the only motion is the fireball motion, no 360 or dp motions at all, also auto combos

I think the game will still be great, but I also understand that since this game is also getting the casuals they have to make it more accessible. Having fireball motions do everything is an alright compromise to me.

I like plague and all, but come the hell on, it's just a flick of the wrist

>>388371936
xenoverseshitters getting assblasted at real fighting games.

>>388372412
rhythm in what way?

>>388371936
Truly /ourguy/

What the fuck input even is that
It seems like it should be a dp

>>388373197
it's a dp motion shifted for the sake of levity

>>388370249
Quit doing the motion and move back instead? I dunno.
Maybe it's actually a hard thing for an autist to quit DPing.

>>388371936
Wait, what the fuck? Why is everything quarter circles and down downs? Why is Plague still complaining? Even I could play this, and I suck ass at doing inputs in fight games.

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>>388371936
>hadoken motions are hard
why are people so fucking retarded holy shit, someone pls blow this fucking planet

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>>388370249
I'd understand if people were complaining about some SNK KoF inputs but SF and DBZ inputs? Really? Are your hands fucked up or something?

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>>388373197
with an extra P it becomes this

>>388371936
Pat blew him the fuck out with facts and all Plague could respond with "BUT *I* DONT LIKE IT"

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Just dropping in to say that I fucking love everything about fighting games even if I suck at most of them.

>>388375658
I'm trying to find and read it all coherently, I dont know how to use twitter

>>388375876
It's not you, twitter is pretty shit for following conversations, especially since they didn't keep it all in one reply chain.

I had the pleasure of reading that shit as it unfolded and it was hilarious.

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I dont understand this, what's complex about dps or fireballs? If talking aboiut KOF inputs, they are a bit tricky by SF or DBFZ? fuck no

>>388372412
That's the most retarded thing I read today, congratulations.

>>388372412
You're thinking of Killer Instinct

>be shit at something
>Want said thing to become easier because you're shit at it

>>388376640
In that pic, they're not entirely wrong, but I don't think the game needs to be "adjusted" for entry play. What happens in most really successful fighting games, is there are multiple levels at which the game can be played and still be fun. Street Fighter II was very popular because of this. Capturing that lightning in a bottle, would be a huge boon to your game, but another problem is the fact that everyone plays these things online now, so you're constantly going to be playing against way more people than ANYONE would have played with as a beginner back in the past of arcades and offline home consoles. In one day I can play more unique individuals in Street Fighter V than I ever played against in Street Fighter II in my life. You're just going to run up against people more skilled than you that will kick your ass, so get good, or more importantly get over it when it comes to losing, and learn when you lose.

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>>388372412
You just earned yourself a medal for being the most retarded person on this thread. I applaud you, faggot.

>>388373197
midnight bliss and k's max DM in kof02

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>He can't do a DP

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>>388377494
>he's blind
>he never played vampire savior

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>>388370249
>tfw no 2632 DP in SF

>>388377151
Every fighting game there are shit people in it and every fighting game release everyone is shit except for basic concepts such as blocking or execution. If you are shit in say SF5, you would continue to play against shit people because of your tier and the people who put the time into the game would be in higher tiers. People dont want to put time into games anymore and want instant gratification in which fighting games do not provide. Comparing to other genres, you can spend 5 hours on one character and still be shit at the game. Honestly if you dont want to put time into it and just bitch, then you shouldnt play online at all or just stick to bronze level with the other shitters.

It's not even about inputs either, brolylegs, a disabled player can play at a high level

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>>388377578
>Playing a dead game for ecred

>>388371936
Can't you generally do DP motions by just pressing down twice or something?

>>388377770
no, the closest to what you are describing is in SF4 in which DP can be simplified to 33 or down-right, down-right

in reality, DP motion is just forward+fireball

>>388377770
_no

>>388377740
>he plays a shit game and follows the low IQ crowd because of streamers and normies

>>388377910
Ah I remember someone talking about it once I never had any issue with DP's so it never really mattered for me.

>>388371936
plague should stick to drawing smut

>>388377910
>in reality, DP motion is just forward+fireball

No it's not. It ends on down+forward, not forward. That would cause problems. There's an old shoto option select in super turbo that uses that though, and people do walk up dps that way, but other than that, nah.

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>he plays with Ryu
>uses analog stick

>playing fightan games
There's your first mistake

>>388378107
alright, I wasnt going to be pedantic about it, but you are right it's 623 motion.

I just said it was forward and fireball to simplify it a bit and it does work, but yeah there could be some issues in gameplay like if you were to just want to walk forward and through a fireball, a dp could come out instead

>>388370249
Play a good game that doesn't have retarded gatekeeping inputs that only autists like

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>>388371936
>He thinks quarter circle motions are too hard
Holy shit. Just how bad at videogames do you have to be to compalin about quarter circle motions?

>>388371936
What the actual fuck Plague, I thought you were cool. You're going to have to draw at least a dozen more sexy beast-like saiyan girls thirsty for dick to make up for this.

Super turbo is the GOAT, prove me wrong.

>>388371936
People are fucking inept. That's all it is.

go play fantasy strike and let the big boys play the real games

>>388371936
How physically inept do you have to be to fuck up qcf?

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Anyone want to do some Saturday night fighting on Fightcade? Or any fightan game on Steam? I could make a dedicated thread if anyone is interested.

I ask this in every thread where /v/ pretends to be good at fighting games and nobody ever responds

>>388376640
If people really wanted easier games theyd play Smash 4, Sony Smash, Tekken(low skill floor) and Rising thunder but they dont care.

>>388376640
Who the fuck picks basketball of all games for this example, basketball is hard as fuck for a stick and ball sport.
>have to bounce a ball off the ground just to move
>need to throw the ball through small a hoop like 10' off the ground just to score a point

>>388379136
The only fighter I play at the moment is GGRev2 but I have to get my PC together

>>388377721
Increasing the time it takes to learn a game doesn't increase the amount of skill it requires. If that were the case, you could make the most skill intensive game ever by flooding it with autistic design.

>>388379136
fightcade sucks because no one near you wants to play

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>>388379785
It uses GGPO though so it has better netcode than actual modern fighters like SFV.

>tfw I can play 15 year old games against Brazilian's with very little lag but playing SFV against someone on the west coast means we're playing teleport tag featuring random slowdowns and rollbacks.

>>388379645
Fighting games just take time to learn, that's it really. The only people who complain about inputs are the same people that dont want to put time into it. People like plague for example should know this because he draws. I doubt as soon as he picked up a pen he was good, same with fighting games. The different here is that you can lose in fighters and you can lose in drawing or playing guitar and it makes people feel bad

>>388379785
>fightcade sucks because no one near you wants to play
you never played on fightcade

>>388370249
What even is this input? Please use numpad notation.

>>388380262
8675309

>>388380080
Do you understand that "that's just the way it is" doesn't do anything to defend this design?

>>388380064
>>388380159
>it werks for me!!

seriously feels like shit if you ever go over 200 ping

I have more trouble with that fucking Z motion

>>388380262
263P > 63214S >720 D

>>388380323
But there is nothing wrong with the design. What I will say is that more games need better tutorials like GGRev2 or skull girls

>>388380080
>can lose in drawing or playing guitar and it makes people feel bad

I meant cant lose

>>388371936
The answer to his question is "Yes, select Simple mode at the versus screen."

>>388380475
Is this potemkin?

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>>388371936
>qcf and qcb is too hard for people now

What the fuck. Like I'm okay with simple movements, but these guys seriously can't handle a nearly three decade standard? I wonder how casuals feel about SFV Ed since his inputs are baby easy.

>>388380491
>what are art competitions

>>388380743
I meant in a general sense, there is a competition for fucking everything

>>388380715
Oh god what is that? I feel that I would fuck up those inputs more then quarter circles and DP. Maybe even more then SPD's and I've always sucked at those.

>>388380715
Something like that is equally confusing. It's information overload to them.

Just tell people who are scared of inputs to play on Stylish or Simple input modes, and if they show any interest in continuing to play and get better, transition them to normal inputs.

>>388380847
that's called the anti-pad.

>>388380924
What does that mean?

>>388380635
Pot doesn't have anything on 236P or 720D

>>388380847
You would. He's a fucking terribly designed character that doesn't even work on pads.

>>388380982
oh fuck I meant xrd pot doesn't have anything on those inputs.

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>>388380715

I find the analog stick easier than the d pad now with my ds4. D pad feels primitive and only nerds use fight sticks.

>>388380438
Burger here, I played Real Bout Fatal Fury Special from someone in Spain, using a wifi hotspot. It was like we were playing on the same machine.

>>388380512
I wish they would just bring back simple, god damn I hate this dumbing down for everyone shit

>>388381173
then I'll just blame it on australian net

>>388380491
If they're good design, why don't all games use input sequences?

>>388381041
>>388380889
>>388380847
I don't understand I picked up Ed in like 2 minutes and was doing fine with him. I don't even play SFV. How is remembering a small movelist any harder than learning DOTA?

It's elementary stuff.

Someone post the one where you have to make star with the stick and press all the buttons at once.

>>388381338
>How is remembering a small movelist any harder than learning DOTA?
What did you mean by this? I mean this in a real factual sense not the meme sense.

>>388381264
because it's not in the design philosophy, games made today are made to be accessible

There are other games with fight inputs like SOTN and some beat em ups

This is why anyone who plays GG or any anime fighter has autism.

>>388371936
Because they think they need to return to neutral after each move. Nobody writes it as a fucking quarter circle, just individual inputs.

>>388381239
I would expect DBF to have it since the other Arcsys fighting games do.
The discussion should have been immediately over but youtubers can't help but argue about stupid shit.

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>>388380715
I don't know what I expected from Capcom at this point, but I didn't expect to see this neutered move list when he was first revealed. They always manage to fuck it up somehow, its astounding.

>>388380715
As an Ed main, he's not a casual friendly character; sure, his inputs are fuck easy, but you have to have a good footsie game, good match up knowledge, and the ability to bait a lot of the characters because he's low tier in most matches. Plus, most casuals can't perform his Psycho Flicker, which you need to be able to do on command to make him work.

>>388381338
>How is remembering a small movelist any harder than learning DOTA?
Because you don't learn the moves, you learn the matchup. The complexity of fighting games is the number of characters SQUARED.

>>388381605
>casuals can't perform his Psycho Flicker
>look at move list
>REPEAT BUTTON
Elaborate.

>>388381465
Creep denial takes multiple inputs and is pretty crucial to Dota. There are quite amount of stuff you need to learn in MOBAs just for the basics. I'd say it's more than fighters, it's just fighters have deeper mechanics

>>388381605
>most casuals can't perform his Psycho Flicker
why though? according to the movelist, all you need to do is press any punch a bunch, Like chun li hands or honda's hands. Cant you just piano?

>>388381804
>Creep denial takes multiple inputs and is pretty crucial to Dota.
What? Everybody uses one-button deny.

>>388381804
>I'd say it's more than fighters, it's just fighters have deeper mechanics
What did he mean by this

>>388381605
I agree Ed is pretty in depth, but at a casual level where you mash with friends he should be easy to learn. His whole design is supposed to be easiest to learn while hard to master

>>388371936
Wait do they all have the same fucking inputs? No technical characters?

>>388381742
>>388381826
Ed has another move, Psycho Upper, that requires two punch presses, where when a lot of casuals go for Psycho Flicker, they fire off Psycho Upper. It actually kept dicking me while I was on a pad (fight stick was broken when he was released), but you can still fire off Psycho Upper accidentally instead of Psycho Flicker.

It was so bad that people like James Chen had to make hour long videos explaining to people what they needed to do.

>>388382086
it's almost like it was designed badly. Like SF5 as a whole

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>>388370249
>that full commitment

>>388380715
casuals love SFV

someone fight me in garou reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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>>388381904
The default is (was when I played) A+left click a creep. That's two buttons and mouse aim.

Dota is not deeper than any high level fighter. I'd argue even Smash Brawl is deeper

Why are Tekken inputs so fucking hard to do?

>>388382151
Eh. The only thing I could suggest to alleviate this issue is make Psycho Flicker LPx3 and Psycho Upper MP+HP, but Ed needs a bit more work than a button change to fix his issues.

>>388382292
Casuals hate SFV

Most either ignore the genre or are dickriding DBFZ

Do the same thing I do for DP and press the direction then do a fireball.

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>>388382450
Kys, Tekken inputs are easy as fuck.
The hard shit is just about the timing.

>>388381465
not that guy but dota is incredibly difficult to learn due mainly to the fact that knowing all the interactions between different heroes, spells, items, and shit that the game never tells you takes forever to memorize. Also the fact that in each game you have 9 other people trying to fuck you over with these.

>>388382450
Strict timing

>>388382460
I don't understand Ed being hard on controller.

Just fucking piano triggers and a face button(s). Ez peezt

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>>388382503
>casuals hate SFV

yeah sure, keep up that facade. SFV is the FG of choice for casuals. you have a a quarter of a second of input lag built into the game to make execution not matter, and it's not for casuals, okay.

>>388382604
that's called learning matchups. fighting games having input barriers on top of that just makes them deeper games. it's okay if you're bad, but don't fake it.

>>388382571
>>388382628

It's the timing that kills me. It reminds me of that Tech TV show that reviewed Tekken and said you had to be a robot just to get the timing right.

>>388382628
I wasn't saying he was hard on controller; I was saying in that instance, it was difficult to pull off 100% of the time due to both moves being very similar to each other and easy to get Psycho Upper to pop instead of Psycho Flicker.

>>388382757
But if you want a deep game, then rhythm games are the best because they have the biggest input barrier.

>>388382789
Practice.

>>388382927
>"execution matters" equals "execution is all that matters"
congrats on being illiterate, I like my burgers medium rare

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>>388371936
>DBFZ is as casualized if not moreso than Persona Arena
My hype needs a senzu or some shit. MvC:I and Capcom's incompetence is setting ASW up for the perfect spike and they're fucking up big time.

>>388372412
Pretty much

>>388382757
Where did I say that it was deeper and more skillful than a good fighter? Did you miss the part where I said that the game outright hides shit that you need to know from you and that youre fighting your own team in addition to the enemy? Its more of a tedious thing than anything.
Any fightan will be better than any moba based solely on the fact that you as the player have complete agency.

>>388372412
what part of rhythm games involves outtthinking your opponent

you are retarded

>>388383124
What the fuck were you expecting

>>388383212
>another "this is only about things I said" debate
stopped reading before the first sentence. you're a

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>tfw you beat someone so hard they rage quit

Is there a better fighting game feel?

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>>388383124
You have to be in the mind set that DBFZ has to get casuals on board but still has tech from what I've seen.

Like with Krillin you can fake that double move and go for a low instead

>>388383212
okay sorry. you're just saying learning MOBAs is hard. you're not wrong. "hard = good" is a status quo around these parts, so I got confused.

>>388383471
Getting hate mail from the rage quitter is better.

>>388383471
ragequitting is common nowadays because people in general are cheating little faggots. the best feeling is playing a match with a person where you can tell they're trying really hard, beating them handily, and then having them kick you out of their lobby every single time you get randomly matched up with them from that point onward.

that is what's best in life

>>388370249
what fucking game uses this motion like what am I even looking at

>>388383037
You're right, there's also memorization, but rhythm games have that too.

>>388383259
But we're talking about fighting games and rhythm games, neither of which have that as a factor.

>>388383124
How are they fucking up? The game looks fine, even if the motions are simple.

>>388383670
demitri's midnight bliss super in vampire savior

>>388383653
oy vey

>>388379136
fightcade is a neat concept on paper but it's not very good anon

>>388383328
>chastising another anon's reading comprehension and then giving the good old LOL DIDNT READ option select

here is a tldr for your attention span: MOBAs are not as deep as fighters despite requiring more knowledge to play competently.

>>388383653
>456158532456 + buttons

thats some bullshit, you probably have to buffer the fuck out of it

>>388383278
I wasn't expecting a ridiculously homogenized cast. I wasn't expecting a 3button fighter with no command normals. And I definitely expecting there to be 2 clones (outside of 5H completely shared normals) when the roster didn't yet have 10 characters.

Guess I'm just a naive retard. I wonder how much BBXTB will disappoint me.

>>388383750
oh, I never played dimitri, only hsien-ko

>>388383479
got your post late senpai since Im being a filthy phone poster. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

>>388383892
>BBXTB will disappoint me
you have to get the rwby fags, so yeah

>>388383846
>despite requiring more knowledge to play competently.
A dota hero has four abilities. How many moves does a fighting game character have?

>>388383892
You would be complaining if they revealed SSB last too, what a stupid thing to bitch about

>>388383834
What's wrong with it? Free, easy to set up, automatically records matches so you can download replays and view your mistakes, can play almost any arcade fighter, excellent netcode so you can play with poor third worlders and still get a decent match with very few hiccups, surprisingly active community on many old games that would be beyond dead on console or PC.

It's almost literally perfect, only thing that would make it better is if more people used it so more people play completely forgotten games like Breakers or Rage of the Dragons.

>>388383124
ArcSys will never be a Capcom killer because they don't want to be.

>>388384174
Nope. Because I'm expecting a small roster since, unlike /v/, I actually know a thing or two about fighting games. Instead, they ignore the major complaints from those of us who played at EVO (homogenized characters to an insane degree). They acknowledged that the first 6 were the most similar but suggested that wouldn't be the case. So what do they do next? Announce TWO (2) reskins that share ~75% of their normals. Not doing much to assuage those concerns I don't think.

>>388371936
>just hold some button or something
how to find the nintenbabie

>>388384726
Or how about people who play literally any other type of game?

>>388384484
But that's not what they did next.

Trunks, Piccolo, Krillin, and the androids were all announced before the blues.

Besides you are ignoring the fact that Arcsys has made reused asset characters in the past but still made them play significantly differently anyway.

>>388383124
What was wrong with Persona Arena? Aside from being pretty broken, which I'll easily concede.

>>388384148
again, this does not make the game more skillful or whatever, but it isnt about knowing what your skills do in doto or a moba in general. Its about knowing how those 4 skills interact with a million other things in the game. Take bloodseeker's ult for instance, you can ult someone and they take damage when they move. Great. But they can buy a lotus orb and reflect it at you, or buy blademail and reflect your damage at you. However, there might be a few other things that change how you act in that situation. You might have an item that prevents this, or a teammate that can heal you, etc. This is all assuming the game is functioning properly and this is a controlled situation, but due to the nature of valve and the games design, this is usually not the case.

>>388383892
6 button fighters are cancer. There's no reason to have to learn that much frame data. The more useless memorization you trim off the more deep a fighter can be in terms of strategy. Complex inputs with 6 buttons is like a chess game with 100 different kinds of pieces, sometimes you'd lose because you forget what a medium kick bishop can do compared to a light kick bishop, instead of in a streamlined fighter where you lose because you fall for an actual chess strategy.

>>388384846
This, the blues look about different as Sol and Order Sol. Hell I wouldnt be surprised if they ended up being as different as Ky and Robo Ky.
Order Sol comparison is likely more apt though.

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>>388383653

>>388384846
Scans of SSB Goku/Vegeta came out the same day as 16/18. Leak or not is just a silly argument. Still pretty damn early to announce reused assets The trailer also suggests it's not going to be a Ky/Roboky or a Sol/OrderSol situation. Looking much more like a Sho/Minazuki or Nu/Labrys from CPE.

>>388384894
I honestly liked it, aside from the balance troubles you've mentioned. Fighting games now are insistent on comeback mechanics and I think Awakening, on paper, is the best idea I know of. In practice it became a game of leapfrog, but neat concept that worked with the source material. I also liked the roll mechanic.

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>>388385490
>Nu/Labrys

>>388385470
Man early 3d fighters aged like milk.

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>>388385694
Sorry, I mix up my robutts sometimes.

>>388385706
That's not an early 3D fighter

>>388385490
I mean all the trailer pretty much only showed a few specials and normals. Its not nearly enough to go on and assume how they will actually completely play other then just pure guessing.

>>388384484
I kinda feel you. I was really hyped for DBFZ at first, but watching the most recent videos, it does look an awful lot like the cast is largely going to play the same. I hope MvCI is good...but I don't hold my breath for that, either. The '09 resurgence and the games from that point onward should have given breathing room for the scene to adapt and really learn those games before they gave way to all these cash ins. As it is, I mourn for the state of fighting games. They should have learned what benefits there were to having games being stagnant as long as they were in the early 2000s.

What does DP mean?

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>>388379238
>Tekken
>Low skill floor

4chan images are loading extremely slow for me, other websites load just fine

>>388386069
Dragon Punch

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>>388385706
That's Super Dragonball Z for PS2. Came out...around 2005, I think? It isn't as graphically as impressive as other PS2 DB fighting games, but it's probably the best DB fighting game we're every going to get. It's REALLY good.

>>388385929
Making increasingly technical games to satisfy a shrinking userbase of experienced players is what put 2D fighters in the shitter to start with

>>388371936
Imagine if this guy had to stand up and walk.

>>388386069
it means what ur mum does with chad and tyrone

>>388382641
No one was denying that it was catered towards casuals, but none of that actually made the game more appealing for them.

the "FG of choice for casuals" is such a contradictory statement because casuals don't bother to actually learn them. MK managed to be succesful by distracting the casual audience from the actual fighting by having a lengthy story, over the top cinematic finishers and a lot of content.

>>388385929
Oversaturation dude. It's a bitch. Everyone and their mother saw 08/09 and hopped on. To make things worse, I can't think of another genre that cannibalizes itself like fighting games do.

>complaining about fighting game inputs
>there are people in this thread who are worse than DSP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYvGTZy6s20

Wew lads

>>388386204
Refraining from making it increasingly technical doesn't mean dumbing it down for people who otherwise don't even like fighting games is a good idea, especially since they're likely not to like them in the long run anyway. Fighting games have a certain hardcore appeal that makes them attractive to casual players who aren't familiar yet, and when you take that aspect away, you just have casual players who enjoy it for a little bit and then drop it after a month or two like any other game.

What is a fighting game at the fundamental level?

>>388386692
Turn-based space control

>>388371936
I mean he has a point. The only reason inputs exist is because of stupid arcade traditionalism.

If specials could be thrown as easily as they are in modern DBZ games then the game would revolve entirely on skill-based reacting to your opponent, and you wouldn't be fucked because you did an input wrong.

>>388386614
I don't get why it took so long before fighting games figured out how to make a proper tutorial like Revelator has or the new Under Night in Birth. That's about 7 years since the "resurgence." Those 2 games have a mode, completely interactive that teaches you how to play the game without outside resources.

And while it doesn't have a tutorial like those, I think MK includes frame data in training mode?

>>388386816
>inputs exist is because of
Overlap with other options that the player may want to perform.

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>>388383471
>tfw lose so badly the opponent leaves because you're wasting their time
Is there a worse feeling?

>>388386614
This perception isn't significantly affected besides people like you who never stop fucking crying about something that makes a fighting game 0.01% easier at a serious level. It's not like you see even a significant number of people run out and play C.Viper..

>>388386884
BlazBlue has had big tutorials for years. Virtua Fighter had them before 2009, VF4 Evo especially.

>>388386816
But inputs are an integral part of the fighting game genre. It's not just about being able to go forward down forward punch to uppercut a dude, its about being able to do so under pressure. It's like if there were a button in an RTS to auto-queue up the right build orders so you can just focus on the micro, or a button in FPS games to auto-snipe people who walk into your sights so you can focus on positioning.

>>388386816
Except that the inputs are part of how you can balance an attack. You couldn't have a projectile as good as sonic boom without putting restrictions on it through inputs: you don't have access to it all the time and you can't use it while moving forward. Same with DPs: they're invincible, but you have to take a risk both in the fact that they're unsafe as hell and that you have to press forward during the input, so you're letting go of your block.

>>388386692
Street Fighter 2: The World Warrior

>>388386454
You're not kidding. I think the way certain users on SRK summarized the "09er" phenomenon put it best: it's not that new players were a bad thing. It's that they knew a lot of players were only bandwagoning SF4 because it was a hotly anticipated new release. They knew that new players would fail to realize how good of a game SF4 was, by the standards established by previous fighting games; that they would not only bandwagon it; but that whatever else fighting game developers shat out from that point onward as a soulless cash in would be readily accepted by the newly established playerbase.

SRK called this shit as far back as when SF4 vanilla first launched.

>>388386970
There are enough buttons now. They can easily dedicate one to specials.

Hell, most fighting games I load up nowadays even have buttons with nothing mapped to them in the default controls.

I don't struggle with inputs but at a certain point people have to take their fingers out of their ears and realize that modernizing fighting games a bit could lower the barrier of entry while doing literally nothing to hamper high-level play.

>>388387030
>this mindset isn't important because it isn't widespread

fucking kill yourself you retarded sheep piece of shit

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>>388379238
>rising thunder
nig...

>>388387171
That's what Simple or Stylish mode is for, then.

>>388386974
If I'm dominating someone after several matches and I'm bored and want to leave, I usually play slightly worse to give them a win so I have an excuse to stop. Nobody likes joyquitting or getting denied a run back, and I'm not autistic about any kind of W/L record so I feel that's the best solution.

>>388387101
I don't think I have ever seen anyone seriously lie this hard about Street Fighter. Or such horrible abuse of semi-colons.

>>388387172
Hahahahahahaha

>>388386614
>when you take that aspect away, you just have casual players who enjoy it for a little bit and then drop it after a month or two like any other game
This is literally what happens now. In fact, the hardcore aspect contributes to this

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>>388386974
>Is there a worse feeling?
Yeah. Beating someone up so badly that you're scared to leave because they'll feel bad but don't want to keep beating them up because you feel bad.

The worst is being a Smash player and realizing that a lot of the players you destroy are probably literal children.

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>>388387101
>fail to realize how good of a game SF4 was

>>388386816
But that's wrong, you dummy. There are very real fundamental reasons why inputs exist.

Shoryukens tend to be very good defensive tools, right? Usually some or full invulnerability with priority. But what is happening when you try to do a DP (outside of blockstun or wakeup situations)? You input forward, down and down-forward. It's a very short time, but the motion is designed so that you can not be blocking when you want to DP.

Let's take charge moves now. It's actually the opposite. You want to flash kick? You can have that ready to go with your block ready. But you don't get to move (again, let's ignore tricks to buffer).

How about 720s? Extremely powerful game changers that you are not allowed to use unless you're buffering it properly, be it jump, dashes or whatever moves by game.

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>>388387245
I've yet to play a game that has a simple/stylish mode without auto-combos.

All I'd like is simplified supers. I don't want the game to combo for me.

>>388387406
There are lots of games with simplified supers

>>388387276
You're an actual retard. Refrain from posting about subjects you know nothing about, please. Or if you do, at least post funny macros to mock me. Otherwise you're useless.

>>388387329
Yeah that's my whole point, except your little addendum at the end that isn't true. Casuals play games to try to be hardcore? Yeah, obvious. Them being hardcore being a covert aspect in why they're only played for 1 or 2 months by only casual players? No, you're stupid.

>>388387171
What would be the point of it? Inputs are the absolute bare minimum of effort needed to learn how to play a fighting game. Anyone who has the mindset of actually wanting to get good isn't going to be stopped by inputs, and anyone who considers inputs to be too high a barrier of entry isn't going to put in the effort to get good anyway.

This shit has been tried multiple times. All the hype around Rising Thunder centered around removing inputs so that "anyone could play." Guess what happened? Experienced players still dominated and the people who bitched about inputs cried nonstop for other reasons. Inputs are just an excuse. The reason fighting games don't appeal to casuals is that they can't blame their losses on anyone but themselves.

>>388387383
It is better to have all much easier moves that are much weaker than old-fashioned inputs that prevent fighters from moving into modern gaming.

>>388387406
Blazblue Calamity Trigger bound certain specials and supers to the right stick. So Ragna had a DP that you could do by flicking up on the right stick. It wasn't all that useful, since it wasn't the invuln DP but the one for combos, but a couple of characters could easily reversal super with it.

Let me guess, nobody is playing any fighting games in this thread are they?

>>388387367
Just speaking as someone who was actually there, senpai. I'm not quoting myself.

SF4 is touted as a bad game by newfags because they're retarded and by veterans because it made them work harder than they want any other game to work them again. If you don't see the truth in this, you're just too new.

>>388387523
Garbage game that nobody cared about.

Experimenting won't count until it's the only way to play the main games, like SF.

>>388387621
So who are these brilliant geniuses who understand the true majesty of Street Fighter IV? You? You're a fucking joke nigger.

>>388387383
I'll admit it'd take more effort than most devs want to put into it, but that can all be mitigated.

In fact it can be as simple as adding some slight vulnerable start-up time to moves to make up for the lack of time spent on the inputs.
That way you still have to have good timing, but won't run the risk of screwing up the input itself.

It never hurts to experiment with things.

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>>388387589
>optional babby mode EO input mode is something the game did

this is the state of fighting game players now. holy shit.

>>388387739
>In fact it can be as simple as adding some slight vulnerable start-up time to moves to make up for the lack of time spent on the inputs.
No. That doesn't work at all.

>>388387631
If the next SF game had one button inputs the exact same thing would happen. For maybe a month there'd be a rush of scrubs eager to show that they'd totally be the best if not for all the "artificial difficulty" of inputs and then a flood of bitching when they walk into fireballs and jump into uppercuts regardless of the execution barrier.

>>388387730
Users on SRK you illiterate retard. Like I just said. It's not my fault your education system failed you, go take it out on your deep fryer. Or convince mommy to buy you something nice to help you feel better.

>>388387579
Nah. These aren't the SF2 days anymore, fighting games are actually very lenient with inputs now. You can be fairly sloppy and still get away with it.

Beyond that, execution checks are an integral part of the genre. That's really what combos are: you outplay your opponent, make good reads/lucky guesses for your chance for damage. It's on you at that point, you have to know what you're doing and you need to have the execution.

You don't like dropping your combos? Too bad, go hit the training room.

>>388387739
Then it's not a DP. The entire point of a DP is that it's invincible while it's coming out. You do that and it gets stuffed by meaties and may as well not exist.

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>>388387619
It's not a Hollow Night yet

>>388387517
>Them being hardcore being a covert aspect in why they're only played for 1 or 2 months by only casual players? No, you're stupid.
How is this not true? Casuals drop the games after realizing how difficult they are to get into.

>>388387774
Again, it didn't allow custom mapping to that or anything. And it was automatically disabled if you ever went online. And in future games they dropped it for your more standard stylish/auto combos. But yeah, it was fucked. And BB was one of the big games with the 09 resurgence.

>>388387774
Calamity Trigger was busted for all kinds of reasons, but the right stick/stylish mode stuff never made much of an impact. Especially since the right stick inputs were disabled online.

>>388387849
>Users on SRK
Once again, what users? Yourself? You lying 09er trash.

Anyone can see you're full of shit because SFIV newfags DON'T FUCKING PLAY FIVE

>>388372624
>also auto combos
They're not even efficient autocombos. They look like "ABC Special" and "BBC Super1" respectively.
DBFZ's A Combos look like most characters' AABC into Special for each character that usually ends with the opponent across the screen for 15-20% damage.
B combo looks like a BBC combo into Level 1 Super. Some characters might be able to Chase and actually do more after that Super, but probably not, it's just a potential wakeup situation.

The one real advantage these autocombos offer is that it gives you a much larger window to observe a hit confirm and go into a manual combo that doesn't suck, or stop the autocombo short assuming that Special or Super would be unsafe on block. I wonder if they have any further context to auto-inputs like BB/GG Stylish Mode, or are a static combo like P4A.

Compared to P4A, each character had one fairly long Autocombo on A that did okay damage on its own but the super at the end had a negative effect if you let it come out "automatically", so you were discouraged from letting the full thing go through. Instead, you could easily branch off into better manual combos at several points during the autocombo, or have a lot of time to stop safe during a blockstring.

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>>388387931
I'll never be able to play with you faggots. Maybe with NA release /v/ will start making lobbies at reasonable hours.

Have the mods not shut down those threads yet?

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>>388387619
It's 5am for me, I'm not going to play now.

>>388387523
>What would be the point of it?
Making it easier to focus on like, literally all of the other factors of the game? Some people can be skilled at the actual fundamentals but not enjoy the constant inputs and occasional screw-ups.

It's one of the reasons I enjoy Smash. FGC bitches about it but it's lack of direction inputs and use of simple one-button moves makes it easier to focus on things like spacing, timing, avoiding/blocking opponents attacks, punishing, etc. etc.

>Guess what happened? Experienced players still dominated
Well yeah, no shit. That's how it should be. I don't see the problem.

>Inputs are just an excuse.
No, your strawman just uses them as an excuse. I love playing fighting games and I've spent a lot of time practicing and improving at Guilty Gear.
I don't want easy combos or easy wins, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize inputs.

This whole "you only want this changed because you lose!" argument is part of why people look down on the FGC. You can't hear a single piece of criticism without your autistic brain going on some spiel that tries to paint the critic as a scrub.

>>388387589
Now see that's not a bad idea. No fighting game uses the right stick for anything important, so that'd be plenty easy to do.
They could even give the right stick specials different properties so that you don't have a major advantage over the players that prefer inputs.

>>388387774
>no argument, only ad hominem
Typical.

>>388387798
Wow great rebuttal. I love all the facts you provided.

>>388387904
>The entire point of a DP is that it's invincible while it's coming out.
Right. So you add some frames just before the invulnerability and animation begin.

>>388388136
>>388387619
Hey man, we tried for GG, but some mod moved the thread to /vg/.

>>388386692
Rock Paper Scissors

>>388388129
I hate how KoFXIV's autocombos are just utterly useless outright because they're unsafe on block everywhere and can't be changed into anything else.

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>>388388136
Why would they? Only two UNI threads to my memory ever reached bump limit and we're not up any longer than a few hours.

>>388388129
Not every character in P4A could easily convert their autocombo into something better, and they scaled damage down, but they were nice in that the first three hits generated extra meter. This is probably the best way to do autocombos: it doesn't dumb the game down because they're inherently inferior to just doing the real thing, but they're not totally useless since there are lots of situations where you'd want to trade damage for meter gain.

>>388388168
>No fighting game uses the right stick for anything important, so that'd be plenty easy to do.
In Skullgirls, you can set your right stick for assists (up/down and left/right for your other two characters in the team)

>>388388129
Wait so DBFZ auto-combos into specials?
And you can't turn it off?

What the fuck, I thought it was going to be a MVC clone.

>>388387984
You can't read. It's not the hardcore aspect that makes this the case, at all. it's the fact that they aren't. This wouldn't be an argument if you could read.

>>388388000
You're right. I guess a big part of the problem is that developers realized how well they could cash in on the arcade update model using DLC. Games didn't get a chance to age very well--updates were put out before players could even fully learn the game they'd just bought. Ultra probably has tech that's not going to be discovered until 10 years from now only because it wasn't even out a year before people started bandwagoning SFV.

>>388372624
>auto combos obligatory means dumbed down
You obviously don't play 2D fighting games aside from SF, just shut up already.

>>388388262
That defeats the entire goddamn purpose of it you moron. If you add vulnerable frames before the invulnerability kicks in then it loses to meaties and is no longer useful as a reversal.

>>388388364
mvci has that as well, also reports were stating that it did the same damage as manual

>>388388129
I'm sure the auto combos wont really affect the game it just has a bad taste in my mouth

>>388372412
Wouldn't that be the opposite

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>>388388129
Autocombos are something I have no problem with, provided they're done properly. UNIEL does them well. It's a basic combo that even mission 2-X will give you a better damage one.

P4A/U did it poorly. First was that there were normals only used in autocombo, the 2nd and 3rd hits. But you also got a meter bonus from that 3rd/4th hit. While meter was hardly scarce in that game, it was a sizable chunk you got. And if you were a retard like me and mained Labrys unironically, there was a good chance in grey/blue axe that the autocombo is what you should do. It sucked.

>>388380982
>>388381016
mega fist forwards is 236P

>>388388262
THAT. DOES. NOT. WORK.

>>388388375
Barely any fighting game ever had more than two years of serious play. Only like ST, 3rd Strike, KoF98, MvC2, and GGAC.

>>388388125
>players of a game from 8 years ago
>newfags

you're a certifiable dipshit. I don't have to give you a bibliography (do you even know that word?) for things I know were said. you can take my word as the history it is or fuck off with the rest of the retards who belong on the outskirts of the community. I have to play SFV to have an opinion on fighting games that matters? yeah sorry, I was gonna reply, but 8 frames of input lag ate the rest of my po

>>388388267
Because you autists keep making the same thread with the same OP picture and text. Make a thread actually looking for players and you won't get deleted or moved.

>>388388536
There was an untimely fiasco with the that one tranny falseflagger shitposting BB and GG Threads too, that definitely didn't help.

>>388388407
I also play Rev2, I dont play anything with auto combos in it, I just dont like the concept but apparently there is some tech there I wasn't aware of which is interesting

>>388388440
If you allow the initial vulnerable frames to be buffered during blockstun/ wakeup etc. the this isn't a problem.

>>388388364
>And you can't turn it off?
Maybe you can.
If not, just don't press A 5+ times in a row or B 4+ times in a row.

>>388388513
You might be right...I come from an era that highly romanticized the era in which fighting games were "dead." I played a lot of CvS2, 3S, that kind of thing, but not seriously. There was a lot to go online and discover out of the gate. It was a really cool experience to "discover" games like that, over a gradual period of time, leading up to the release of a huge sequel in a major franchise. I guess that's just something unique that isn't going to be captured again.

SFV sucks tho

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>>388388483
Look man you play the gorilla you embrace the gorilla..

>>388388375
>cash in on the arcade update model using DLC
It's funny, actually. BB tried a model one time that I think was pretty fair. The 2nd game, CS, came out at I think $40. Then maybe 9 months later there was a fairly sizable balance patch. It added 3 new characters and just general balance changes that fighting games do. But the balance patch was completely free for PS3/360 owners. Instead that patch was subsidized by buying those 3 characters (8 bucks a pop, pretty pricey) and a repackaged physical release for like the Vita and 3DS.

They're trying that model again next week where the patch itself is a free update but you have to buy Jubei. I think that's a fair model.

>>388388591
What do you do if someone decides to use the Stylish control scheme? Auto combos are fine. Unoptimal and you don't even have to worry about blocking anything but one string if your opponent doesn't know how to do anything else.

>>388388795
>>388388483
i want to fuck that gorilla

press my fastest button after a meaty to get out of the pressure, always get counter hit no matter what, i get that too when im the one doing the pressure, hows the frame advantage works anyway?

>>388388440
So what's the purpose of the time spent on the input in the first place?

You're so stuck in your ways that you can't see the most basic logic.

Your argument in favor of directional inputs revolves around the time spent inputting them. Simply fill that time in automatically after the button press and nothing has changed.

>>388388651
>If not, just don't press A 5+ times in a row or B 4+ times in a row.
That sure sounds fun.

I'll stick to Guilty Gear.

>>388388940
Sounds like you don't know what a meaty is. If we're talking about SF, for example, a meaty is a move that you throw out where your move's active frames are timed just right where the opponent has no choice but to reversal or block.

If you're getting jabbed out of a meaty, it's not a meaty.

>>388388921
Too bad no vagoo

>>388388973
Nobody wants 10 frames of input lag on special moves

>>388388940
Don't press buttons after meaties.

>>388388940
If their meaty is safe or + on block, they can hit you with something faster tan your attack after. If you meaty with an attack that's unsafe on block, you can be punished for it.

>>388388887
In my mind I had the erroneous idea that auto-combos inherently = dumbing down which isnt actually the case for most games except for MVCI apparently since I read from somewhere that the damage was the same as manual, not sure if this is true anymore though. I still think autocombos could be a sign for dumbing down gameplay though

>>388388536
Well It was suggested at some point, but some anons just don't listen.

>>388388940
you don't need to know (like, in general. at least imo). just block.

>>388388852
You still end up paying double the price of a complete, viable game in the end. It's part of what makes fighting games less attractive to players who aren't already accustomed to them. There's not just an execution barrier, but the price of keeping up with every single release from the start if they want to keep up with the community. It is kind of bullshit.

>>388389125
>no vagoo
Do you honestly think that will stop me?

>>388389125
>Nobody wants 10 frames of input lag on special moves
Then why are you defending inputs?

>>388389323
Because that's not input lag

>>388389323
Not him, but inputs add literally more to the game, if you're opponent hears your motion you can use that to trick them into thinking you're doing a move. It's a classic feint

>>388389168
I mean they're obviously trying to make it easier to button mash but since you're someone who spends time to learn the game that won't even work on you because they really can't open you up that way. If it truly 'dumbed down' the gameplay there would be no reason for top players to use anything other than the auto combination.
>MvCI
Yeah I read that there's no scaling on the auto combos in that game. Kinda nuts. The same rules still apply conceptually but I have no idea why they made that decision.

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>>388389214
>Do you honestly think that will stop me?
Good man. She has at least one hole, and that's all that matters.

>>388388940
>press my fastest button after a meaty to get out of the pressure
What? that doesnt make any sense

>>388389323
Not him but the concept of inputs rewards forethought. It's not meant to necessitate impossible levels of reaction to play at a completely optimal level (playing at a theoretically optimal level would necessitate this and only be possible through bots). It's so that forethought is required, contributing to the psychological aspect of the game. To use a mid-low level example, you learn to start buffering DP motions when you think the opponent is going to jump, refraining from the button press until you can see for yourself the jump occurred and reacted for yourself. It's a big part of the 1v1, mind-to-mind competitive aspect that only fighting games have.

>>388389469
I still don't even see why the autocombo needs to be scaled. If it's just something like ABC, launcher into j.ABC that's hardly optimal in the first place.

If anything, I'd say that the actual casualization would come from the fact that every character has that same string in the first place.

>>388388287
I tried playing XIV the other day. Admittedly it's my first KoF game. It's probably just me being shit but everything feels like it has a lot of recovery except for autocombos. I dunno, but it feels like it should be gatling a lot smoother than this.

>>388384181
If you're still around I'll play some fucking Rage of the Dragons. That game is my jam

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>>388373197
Midnight Pleasure and Demon Blast.

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>>388388136
They happen in the dead of night and don't have a whole lot of people in them and don't last that long. It doesn't really get in the way of anything.

>>388388973
>Simply fill that time in automatically after the button press and nothing has changed.
Plenty has changed. You now lose the ability to use your specials as reversals and in combos because their startup time is too long.

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Do you think McGregor can DP? Or does he play Stylish?

>>388388973
>>388389967
One of the Blazblues did exactly this for Stylish mode. Complete with a bar that charged up that your opponent could see.

>>388382395
That gif is pretty stupid tho

people without a knowledge of fighting games should not propose fundamental changes to their systems

>>388389740
I have that game in my ROM list but I've only played it once or twice. Gimme a sec to load up a move list and I'll hop on.

>>388389995
yo is that happening right now? the date and times online say it should be but I can't find anything but hype mongering online.

>>388390390
I'm in the room now. I'm bleetman

>>388390503
It ended exactly as everyone expected. You didn't miss anything.

>>388370249
SF Inputs aren't for controllers so they fucked up the input by not putting 8 way arrows.

>>388390660
>Mayweather won by TKO in round 10

Yeah I expected him to win but godddamn man, I wanted to see that. Damn my memory.

>>388390764
It was pretty embarrassing for mayweather. McGregor won the first 3 rounds by outboxing him. Then McGregor predictably got tired and lost.

>>388389569
>Not him but the concept of inputs rewards forethought.

So does increasing the animation time. Face it, there is no legitimate reason to have archaic inputs anymore.

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wheres the thread you fucking UNIniggers?

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>>388391342
Like I said, it's not a Hollow Night so my duties do not apply. A different UNI Thread died like an hour ago though.

>>388391342
>>388391446
Do the UNIST threads have EU lobbies? I'm considering buying this game but there's no point if there's no one to play with.

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>>388391558
The known EUfags seem to mostly play on open lobbies instead of the ones we usually have. Most of the people who comprise the series' threads mostly expect them at night so earlier threads are even tougher to make for EU and the people on the East Coast.

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>>388390659
>Use all my strength and meter and sacrifice a character to take down Buff Priest
>Near full health Pepe waiting in the wings

That was awesome. Rage of the Dragons is really fun, I recommend you all try it even if you're a beginner like me.

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>>388386974
>In GG lobby.
>Guy finishes a match and opponent leaves.
>I go and jump to the arcade.
>They get right off and go sit somewhere else.
Is there a worse feeling?

>>388371936
>movelists is already babby-tier easy
>baww it's too hard!
good for you, arcsys, for anticipating this shit

>>388391257
nigger what? there is no cogent thought contained anywhere in your post.

>>388393438
>Playing GG
>Guy comes to my cab
>He posts in chat "first to 10"
>Double perfects me, then leaves
Sometimes I just want to give up on gitting gud

>>388393653
if it makes you feel any better I haven't given an actual shit about being really good at fighting games since I was a NEET

>>388393438
Why are the GG lobbies set up that way? It just sounds like a recipe for butthurt.

>>388393795
you can have eight people in one lobby all playing games at once

>remove gate
>have no problem inputting the wildest of moves
only retards put in gates to block their range of motion

>>388393795
It's set up like an arcade with 4 machines.

You know I've been thinking about this for a while and when the average fg scrub says
"FG inputs are too difficult"
I feel that they mean to say
>"FG inputs are too difficult for the reward of successfully executing one"
Look at every other competitive genre outside of turnbased games, mastering tech skill offers a significant and omnipresent advantage in a way incomparable to fighting games. Let's consider the following two examples.
In an FPS game, Player A has <30% aim rate but high level map knowledge and gamesense, Player B has >90% but is new to the game and still isn't familiar with the maps or general game strategues. You can be sure Player B will win the vast majority of engagements. Tech skill is a barrier to winning engagements, you NEED to aim to win engagements.
Now consider something similar in a fightan game
>Player A can DP <30% of the time but has god tier fundamental skills and yomi, Player B can DP >90% of the time but has shit fundamentals and yomi. I think most of the time these players fought, Player A would win. DP is not necessary to win most engagements in the game. In fact in fighting games tech skill is almost never a prerequisite to actually win an engagement.
Grinding tech skill against bots is always the path of least resistance in comparison to dynamically altering your gameplan and tactics on the fly. And its always the most attractive option to casuals. So when a higher DP rate doesn't translate into a higher win rate they blame the game and complain the input is too hard for what it does.

>>388395532
It's past your bed time smashbab

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What modern fighting game even has difficult inputs or execution requirements? I remember jumping from mvc2 to 3 and being blown away by how easily I could do everything. Nothing was close to rom loops or shit like properly timing corridor xxx captain sword.

>>388395830
Difficulty is subjective.

>>388393850
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter

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>Play fighting game.
>One input is literally one frame of no movement to execute signature attack.

>>388397289
is it OP

>>388395830
Execution has become much more lenient. To answer your question I'd say probably GG. But even then it's less execution and more how finnicky that game likes to be with distance with your starter. Combos aren't particularly hard, but knowing what will whiff matters.

>>388393587
If the animation time is increased to mimic the time it takes to mash out an input, then the forethought metagame is the same.

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>>388399175
>if you used "animation time" to mimic the realtime movements of a human being in the physical realm

>>388399950
You seem to be heavily retarded and have difficulty comprehending the english language. May I suggest you never post again.

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>>388399175
not him but then you arent buffering anything in preparation for a reaction, you're just pressing a button that commits you to doing the move

>>388380715
So that was the reason to hire Plague as game designer. Man, Capcom is so modern.

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>>388399175
so your solution is to add more startup frames to dps right? but thats already a balancing factor and doesnt change that you have to stop low blocking for at least 3 frames in order for a dp to be input from blockstun, while making it easier to defend against by giving more leeway for safe jumps and option selects to deal with it.

i do at a level agree with your view, since you can make some dps slower to make it harder to use and easier to defend against. and gg actually put your idea to test by giving jack o a fairly long(compared to some other similar moves) startup on her dp, while also making it her crouch dust, allowing her to dp out of blockstun but also keep low blocking. the big difference is that they gave it an extra weakness by not making it throw invulnerable so it doesnt defend well against throws. i mostly disagree that every dp input should mimic jack os since its something that gives both players something unique to play around, and having all dps be similar just homogenizes the cast just that little bit.

>>388400625
Honestly, my solution would be to start from the ground up. Essentially something like streetfighter's rock paper scissors but with smash style inputs that isn't casualized or made "family friendly". Smash inputs doesn't inherently make it casual either.

>>388401149
Fantasy Strike, then?

>>388401224
Maybe in principal, but looking at the gameplay the execution looks fucking awful. The animations and timing make me want to kill myself.

>>388371936
Cut Plague a break, he has a hard life tending to his farm

>>388391446
that was actually my thread and I didn't intend for it to last that long, I actually just wanted to know the ranked colors becaseu I'm green in pc uni after 20 hours of only playing with one other person in lobbies he's yellow even though he's the same and the game are mostly even until recently and maybe have start an UNI thread if it was made to be

>>388402737
reminder fundamentals are more important then just learning how to use special moves

>>388403142
This, basically. It's your skills in application and adaption that's going to net you wins, not memorization.

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>>388370249
>my face there are actually people that have no idea how to do that motion
>my face when trying to do IAD Tatami on Baiken

>>388403805
Sorta. Even if you beat someone in the fundamentals if you haven't ground for hours against the AI your punishes won't do shit for damage. You can punish them 2-3 times but only land a heavy kick as the punish, versus them only getting a single punish for a huge damage combo. You still lose despite beating them on fundamentals.

>>388403805
You still need to memorize frame data to even have "fundamentals".

>>388405742

It's really a non-issue. You can figure that kind of stuff by simple observation in most cases. It's way less complicated than all the shit you need to learn in the average moba for example

>>388387739
>In fact it can be as simple as adding some slight vulnerable start-up
and reducing the skill gap, because execution is still a skill, you moron
and on top of that you make dps useless as a reversal, because now you can hit a dping player during his vulnerable startup
do you ever think about what you're talking about or do you just spew bullshit right as it crosses your mind?

>>388406397
Execution is a trash skill. Only reflects your willingness to grind the same move over and over again against an AI punching bag.

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>got tekken 7 about a month ago
>majority of the time was spent practicing combos just so i can do damage
>even after about a solid week of practicing a couple of combos i could never remember how to execute any of them in an actual match, only what the combo and moves should look like
>literally all i am able to do is be a turtling pussy, poke the opponent and hope they don't hurt me enough to win through timeout
i understand spacing, frame advantage/disadvantage, bait and punish, basically all the fundamentals, yet i can never learn actual combos outside of the most basic of basic juggles that barely do anything. it's not even the inputs being difficult, it's just remembering the patterns and repeating said patterns that's just too much for me, as strang as it may seem.
i just end up tired and annoyed and end up going back to doing other things instead. i'm probably not cut out for these sorta games, which is disheartening because they're one of my favorite genres.
i'm trying to be persistent but i also find i'm spending less and less time practicing each time i play, i just feel drained and defeated honestly.

>>388406617
Just grind more lmao

Oh, you actually wanted to play the game? Well I guess you're shit out of luck lmao

>>388406586
>you only get good execution by playing against ai
stop being retarded and looking for excuses for being trash at the game

do you also whine about having to aim in shooters and having to remember the shortcuts to select the options in rts games?

>>388406586

Just about every game has some type of execution requirement. You think people were just born knowing how to rocket jump, 360 no scope, micro various units, EWQRQ within the right time frame, play the violin, etc. Newsflash: it takes practice to get good at anything

>>388406617
>even after about a solid week of practicing a couple of combos i could never remember how to execute any of them in an actual match, only what the combo and moves should look like
You also need to get it into muscle memory. That takes time.

>>388406846
about a month of practicing a few combos should be plenty of time to get it into muscle memory though
one week i spent the entirety of my practice time just drilling in one combo. nothing else, just that combo on it's own. i still couldn't do it in a proper match to save my life.
makes me feel like a damn retard to still haven't gotten them ingrained

>>388406768
>having to aim in shooters

You get a completely proficient skill level by just playing the game. Before I play competitive in CSGO I warm up by just shooting some targets for 2 minutes, that's it.

You don't need to practice against bots who stand still just to learn how to activate the headshot move. You don't need to practice for hours to reliably reload your gun. Or throw a grenade. Or jump on top of a box.

>having to remember the shortcuts to select the options in rts games

First off, that's a single button and secondly, that's actually a part of the reason RTS is dead. People hated having to micro 100 units. The control scheme is trash, much like fighting game inputs.

>>388406779
>You think people were just born knowing how to rocket jump

Learned in 30 seconds. Practiced to proficiency while playing the game.

>360 no scope

Not actually a relevant skill.

>micro various units

People hated this and it's why RTS is dead.

>play the violin

Newsflash: most people give up or don't even bother with violin because it's so fucking particular.

>>388386692

Super Turbo, Virtual On and competitive Catherine VS

>>388407009
How difficult and long is the combo you are learning?

>>388407095
>You don't need to practice against bots who stand still just to learn how to activate the headshot move
And you don't have to grind in training mode all the time if you're not retarded, either go mess around with the ai (seems like lots of casuals love that) or jump in some non-ranked matches and try whatever
Of course training mode helps you with execution because you can focus only on that, but learning through matches isn't impossible
And to add on to that, lots of shooters have particular mechanics that require mechanical skill, like rocket jumps and various other movement abilities that necessitate training to get right

>First off, that's a single button
Not always, and you know that
Or maybe you don't because you prefer making up excuses on why the game is bullshit instead of playing and getting better

>>388407419
>And you don't have to grind in training mode all the time if you're not retarded

Bullshit. To have your moves reliably come out and to reliably pull off bread and butter combos you will need to spend hours in training mode.

>but learning through matches isn't impossible

Yeah, you're totally gonna learn combos in a real match.. lmao

>Not always, and you know that

What, like Alt + 5? Doesn't even matter because RTS is dead of it's trash control scheme.

>like rocket jumps and various other movement abilities

Learned in 30 seconds, practiced to proficiency while playing the game.

>Or maybe you don't because you prefer making up excuses on why the game is bullshit instead of playing and getting better

Or maybe dumbfucks like you can wake the fuck up instead of letting your genre die.

>>388407620
People learned to play fighting games without training mode for years.

>>388406617
you basically need to play to learn and just give up on winning for now.

>>388407362
it's literally just one of king's sample combos, not very long or difficult
while crouching downfoward RP, downfoward RK, LK, downfoward RP, LP, running grab

>>388370249
Isn't this just quarter circle forward quarter circle back?

>>388407874
i'm less concerned about winning and more about not getting completely bodied for not knowing how to link moves together

>>388407852
We didn't have training mode, but we did have 1p vs 2p. So we would just use that and some people went out and bought or rented the Arcade boards so that they could practice.

>>388407620
>Learned in 30 seconds, practiced to proficiency while playing the game.
Then how come you can't understand how to press a button, move the stick in a slight curve and then press another button?
>move mouse down and behind you
>jump and crouch
>shoot
>look forward and strafe

that isn't easier than
>press down+mk
>go forward with your stick
>press punch

cr. mk in hadouken isn't fucking hard and if you do two hadoukens you get a super
after trying a few times you have a decent combo useful even at high level

>>388408027
Getting bodied is part of the process. You are going to lose more matches than win. Also Tekken has that nasty habit of leaving you feeling more hopeless when you get beat. Because if the person is decent, you will not be able to even play.

>>388407852
Listen man, you can pretend like fighting game inputs aren't archaic garbage and everything is totally fine all you want, but just don't come crying when the genre dies. I mean, it practically already has, it should be growing significantly but it's stagnant. How many copies did SFV sell?

>>388408073
Rocket jump may or may not be easier than hakdouken, except there is how many more moves you need to learn? Then how many combos? And often your movement inputs interfere with the special move inputs like 720's or charge moves. Wake the fuck up.