>we don't own our steam games >we just rent them

Nobody read the fine print and we're now so far gone that nobody wants to rock the boat.

>>387791650
Post more cheesy potatoes lady

It's pretty much a permanent rent, valve makes too much money to ever shut down, you'll be dead before you loose your games

>>387791893
actually
old' /v/ explicitly hated steam for specifically
>>387791650
this reason.

newfags were the ones going 'hurrdurr what is wrong with this' and they shilled for steam so loudly that any voice of reason got REEE'd out and down by the sheer amount of newfaggotry valve cocksucking.

there were threads for about 2 years straight, daily or weekly about the shittyness of valve and steam as companies.

newfaggots just refused to believe it.

tbqh the chances of a disk rotting are higher than the chances of steam shutting down

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>>387791650
Because it's easy, convenient, and Valve won't dissaper overnight
Even if they do, I can pirate the game back.

>>387791650
You don't own your property, you're just renting it to the landowner.

If the game is rented, why did they implement a refund system? AFAIK the refund system was there to avoid refund laws on bought goods, but the case is that Steam games are rented to you

>>387791650
only buy multiplayer games on steam,
they will surely die from low playerbase before steam itself die.
games are still easy to pirate if shit goes down

>>387791650
Technically, you also only own a license for console games.

>>387792489
Can't take away physical games son.

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>>387791650

>>387792489

No, you own a physical copy and an implied license for use. The physical copy and the implied license are both transferable. The same is not true for Steam.

How the fuck do you people think Gamestop can sell 2nd hand games?

>>387791650
>Download game form steam
>Drag folder from steam into documents
>Replace exe with crack

I own the game now :-)

>>387792319
If you rent a car but the service was not satisfactory, you can still get a refund.

>>387792181
>old' /v/ explicitly hated steam for specifically

No, they hated Steam for being a bloated piece of shit and no offline mode.
At least you could install it on how many PCs as you wanted unlike SecuROM shit

>>387791650
It was started back in an age when Valve could do no wrong

>>387792257
When will she return to porn?

>>387792864
Nowadays physical games are only an installer that downloads the actual game from a server, those days are gone anon.
>>387793547
You can buy keys for Steam games on the grey market too.
>>387793569
Many Steam games are DRM free too.

>>387793359
Delete that. How will shitposters shitpost if they have evidence that they are wrong?

>>387793736
Oh it's this retard.

>>387793359
Thread should have ended here, but /v/ just wants an excuse to shitpost i guess.

>>387793359
>Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally

In non-legalese this is basically saying we can cut you all off whenever we want. There is nothing in the user agreement about provisions for continued access to "Subscriptions" in such an event. On the contrary, there are only provisions for them NOT providing this.

I guarantee that if you ask what those "measures" are you will not get an answer.

>>387793706
Never.
I liked Viola's voice in SR3 so I hope she puts that mouth of hers to good use in more games.

>>387793736
>Nowadays physical games are only an installer that downloads the actual game from a server, those days are gone anon.
On PC? Sure.
On console it still does everything by disc including installs which is why you can play a game fully offline, the only things that are downloaded are patches and such. With that said there is one game that does that and it's call THPS5.

>>387791650
Everything is ephemeral

>>387793826
Please be nice to me.
>>387793832
Steam is not above critisism but OP is being unreasonable, setting up measures so people can download their games if Steam goes down is way cheaper and better PR wise that defending yourself from angry costumers and their lawyers.

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>>387793983
Shame.
But maybe Mary Padian will do some shoots for gloryholeswallow

>>387791650
Steam sales

You don't own the games on physical DVD's either. You just have a license to use it.

>>387794103

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Here. Learn about the law, kid.

>>387791650
You would need to make everyone against Steam. Finding Holy Grail will be easier than this.

>>387794027
You guys have to pay for online, you aren't in the position to mock anyone.

>>387794304
>you aren't in the position to mock anyone.
Sure I am, especially if I'm not paying a dime.

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>>387791650
>>387791893
>>387792181

>old /v/

Nah. Everyone loved Gaben. There was a good bit of trust that Valve were the "good" guys. Plus Half Life 3 being such a meme.

But Gaben became a business man after the steam sales and TF2 micro transactions took off. Now Steam is took big to fail, and companies that normally wouldn't publish a PC port trust steam to handle the PC stuff.

But hey, they have sales!

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>>387792257
Pay for a game

To pirate it back

Wow
just wow

>>387794396
You paid for the console.

steamcucks are the worst idiots in the history of gaming

>>387792257
what and idiot

>>387794528
Pop quiz
I can pirate the game right off the bat, but I prefer to pay for it if I like it
Can you guess why?

*All my carts burst into flames as my disks crumble into dust and my harddrive sublimates*
Damn I knew I should've listened to anon and /v/ you sure are smart

>>387794575
It could be worse, people actually pay for an online service

im more worried about consoles
steam wont shut down anytime soon because its making money and the game are easily copies and pirate anyway
but there nothing stopping sony or micro from shutting down older console stores and just having a ton of hidden gems lost to time forever
even recently shit like PT is just gone and a pain in the ass to play
its worrying with consoles trying to push more towards digital

>>387794692
t. Valve representative

>>387794575
>better and cheaper games than console
>don't have to pay for multiplayer
>don't lose their library with each generation
steamcucks amiright? XD

>>387791650
Because it's still the best service. Every retailer before Steam fucked you over too. Steam fucks you over less so long as you follow the rules.

>>387791650
I wouldn't worry about it.
They can never really take them away, it would be a literal headhunt for Valve employees.

>>387794773
The answer is emulation.

>>387794480
>But Gaben became a business man after the steam sales and TF2 micro transactions took off.

Gabe was a business man the second he decided Half Life 2 was to be exclusive to Steam which was nothing more than Valve run DRM with a non-optional built in store when it was released and isn't much more today.

Nobody fucking liked Steam until the Steam sales thing happened which was a long time after the release of Half Life 2 and even then that was just meme bullshit from retards who thought $3 AAA games was going to last forever. Now all you hear every Steam sale is about how it's shit because the games are only 75% off instead of 90% off. EA was right, Valve has devalued the PC market in a selfish pursuit of monopolization. And there are actually idiots that consider that to be "saving the PC market".

>>387794921
If you can emulate them, why do you pay for some overpriced console?

>>387794931
>the games are only 75% off instead of 90%
I'm pretty sure most worthwhile games were in the 50-66% range last sale. Valve already has a loyar consumer base, they don't need to lower the prices so low anymore wich is a great way to attract more publishers too.

>>387793760
>>387793832
See
>>387793976

>>387794931
>Half Life 2 was to be exclusive to Steam which was nothing more than Valve run DRM

It still got pirated.

>>387795065
I don't.
>>387793976
>>387794070

Because copyright law is absolutely fucked

>>387791650
Guess what? You're only renting your body too :^)

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The funny thing is you don't own your physical games either. You own the disk and the hardware of your console but the software and the game files were never yours not even for one instant.
Sony could brick your Playstation with an update and you wouldn't be able to do a thing about it, it's their right.

>>387791650
I understand why this makes Steam a rather shit platform to use, since if it ever dies I lose a huge library of games. But while I'm not typically pro-piracy, I think it'd be justified if a game you previously bought was removed from your collection because you're "renting" instead of "buying", as stupid as that is.

Essentially I see this as a non-issue, since the odds of Steam failing or taking one's games seems low, and even if it happens one can take up piracy and continue where they left off.

>>387795429
Just in case you connect to the internet

>>387795429
Try to revoke my physical copy.

>>387795175

I never said it was effective DRM but that's definitely what Steam was supposed to be. It did stop leaks though because until release day Half Life 2 only existed in the wild in encrypted form.

>>387795563
I'll fry your router you fucking pip

>>387795473
>steam is unlikely to go down
And then one day it does. And a small portion of games are being cracked at all and so many will be lost forver.

>>387794027
>On console it still does everything by disc
This is untrue.

Because BD drives are incredibly slow and inefficient at random read, which a game would use, Xbone and PS4 games install pretty much everything on the HDD.

>>387795664
Name 4 worthwhile titles that can't be played outside Steam.

>>387795563
Dude. The game isn't on the disk, when you put it in the machine it downloads an iso from their server that you install. Then it acts like an activation key eveeytime you want to play.

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>just make a petition.
> us gamers have the power to change this

>>387795816
How fucking underage are you?

>>387795812
That's not issue. If all the worthwhile titles are on steam and steam goes down then all the worthwhile titles will go down.
Are you a retard ?

>>387795867
How fucking old are you ?

>>387795920
Are you having trouble parsing english?

Steam is far more consumer-minded, equitable, and respectful than any other digital distribution platform.

Why bother? Nothing lasts forever, one day you will die, enjoy what you can.

you still own them even if you delete them. I dont see any other game asking for continuous payment of money that is an AAA that is not an MMO. the game remains in your library even if you delete it. Whats wrong with that?

>>387795737
And because modern game companies are lazy pieces of shit who can't be bothered to ship a complete, functional game, there's usually day one downloads and patches. So you'd run out of space on a console and have to delete something and if you wanted to play it again, too bad fuck you the servers are down and you can't play.

>>387794664
You are a good goy.

>>387796062
this tbqh senpai

>click offline mode
Woooow

>>387792181
Steam was hated for being a piece of garbage that constantly broke and then broke trying to update/fix itself.
Also >2 years
Sort yourself out.

>>387796056
Aparently i do. I don't use steam anyway, haven't had it unstalled for years.

>>387796062
>having your stuff taken away from you because of online-connected licensing

That's really the problem.

>>387796075
meanwhile consolefags pay money for online "because free games lol" which are literally removed from their account the moment they stop forking up money for sony or microsoft

steam is a backup service too... it's a great value, actually. I'm surprised there is no steam prime subscription, yet.

Oh huh no fat wojaks with a fedora have been posted yet.

>>387791650
You can use steam offline you know?

That's why you must ger your keys for as little and as shadily as possible

>>387791650
because of the bearded Gayben kike.

It's like holy shit, you know what that kike worked before? Why would you trust (((him)))

>>387794528
Not sure if bait or just really stupid.

>>387796229
>I'm surprised there is no steam prime subscription, yet.

There sort of is. Things are locked behind your Steam level and the Steam level is basically determined by how much money you have given Valve.

>>387796234
It never works when you actually need it i.e. being FUCKING OFFLINE.

>>387796234
Be careful not to come online by accident or the seekers will catch your client.

>>387796230
has less affect nowadays since people realise that its fucking retarded.

>>387795920
That only happens if all the worthwhile titles are ONLY on Steam, which usually isn't the case. Plenty of games have physical releases on consoles or through another online distributor.

>>387793359
here, Mr. Judge. I got this screenshot of (((someone))) from tech support saying something.

Yeah, I know that the ToS tell me to get fucked, but this screenshot proves that I have to actually get access to my Steam games!!!111

Why are PC gamers so derp all of a sudden?

>>387795429
>Sony could brick your Playstation with an update and you wouldn't be able to do a thing about it, it's their right.
It really isn't, stop pretending to be retarded.

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you don't own the game you buy on a cd

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>>387796323
Offline mode doesn't work when you're offline ?

>>387796228
Corporate Dicks have more control on Consoles. That's why they keep producing Console based games.

we have this discussion every 2 days, if not more

>>387796315
>locked behind steam level
Just some cool profile things though, don't really matter too much

>>387791650

i pirate my games, op.

>>387796435
https://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html

>You agree that these updates may
>cause loss of data, and to ensure such loss is not permanent you should archive any personal photos, music, video or other data stored on your Sony system
>You agree you will not be entitled to a refund in respect of any changed or removed features or functionality, or any loss of data, relating to a software update.

Translation: we can fuck you in the ass, you little slave.

>>387793736
Nearly all steam games are DRM expect for this list:

https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_DRM-Free_Games_on_Steam

>>387796531
>Just some cool profile things though

For now.

>>387796346
I play offline almost exclusively, cause my brother plays my steam collection on his computer.

You set it to offline and unless you set it back to online it stays offline.

>>387796531
What profile things? i only know of steam friends, which are meaningless for 99.99% of the users, and still meaningless for the other ones because I highly doubt anyone with 500 friends actually talks or plays with them at least once a year.

>>387794480
>Now Steam is took big to fail

That's not what that term means.
Too big to fail means an economy has become too reliant on a particular business so that if it fails it will cause catastrophe for the market.

>>387796470
Yes I do, and I can re-sell it for example.
What I do not own is the copyright so uploading/distributing or making copies for other reason than backup (shit varies all over the world so YMMV) is a no.

>>387796474
yes, because why wouldn't you enter off-line mode, while you are online, just for the chance of being off-line all of a sudden?

Does this shit even work at all now? It didn't work at all for 10 years or so. And I'm pretty sure that it will still lock you out after some time has passed. Basically always online DRM.

>>387796612
Every 10 or 5 levels you get a profile slot where you can display different stuff like a wall of text, achievements or items
>>387796596
>Things are locked
>Not really
>Well not yet
Fuck off

>>387796576
>fuck ups may happen
>that means there's some EVIL OVERLORD WITH AN EYEPATCH petting a persian cat that laughs maniacally at the thought of bricking 60M+ consoles and completely ruining his business
What a fucking idiot.
>Do you store shit like photos and music on your console?
>Back shit up or if we screw we won't be responsible.
That's all there is to it and that's all you find in every fucking TOS/EULA.
Every corp just disclaims completely everything because they do fuck up once in a while.
You completely missed the part that if it HAPPENED WITH INTENT it would not be enough to cover their asses.

>>387796621
Legally, you only own the physical disc. The game itself encoded on the disc is just licensed to you.

Technically they can revoke the license, but it's a moot point since in practice, they can never remove the software from whoever has the disc and they can't control the ownership of that object.

>>387796665
I don't use steam so i don't know if this post serious ?
Can other users confirm ?
It's hilarious.

>>387796870
>Technically they can revoke the license,
Sure, technically.
Did this happen, like ever?
I'm pretty sure refunds would be in order because I paid for the 'unlimited' use of said license and they unilaterally revoked the license.

>>387796665

It was fixed a while ago. Someone figured out why it wasn't working and how to get it to work, something about offline data being corrupted except when offline is engaged in the one specific way in which it actually worked. If I were a cynical man I'd say the "bug" was deliberate as Valve left it not working for years until someone figured out how to get around it and then the bug was suddenly patched in the next update.

>>387796837
yeah, moron
you know the point was: they could do that.
It wouldn't make sense for them to do it, but they could. And you couldn't do a thing about it.
>REEEEEEEE my poor Sony buddy
Look, if you actually read the ToS:
>You agree you will not be entitled to a refund in respect of any changed or removed features or functionality, or any loss of data, relating to a software update
That doesn't just say loss of personal data, it says loss of any data, removed features or functionality (hint: playing games is a functionality, playing Blu-rays is a functionality etc.)

Again: it wouldn't make sense for them to do that, but that wasn't the point.
And it already makes no sense that their PSN store on both PS3+PS4 is absolute garbage. I mean the kikes at Sony want you to rent digital games, so why can't they even make that shit software work? Even Nintendo is able to make that work.

>>387791650
another mad consolecuck/gogcuck thread?

>>387796665
It works though
You can't connect to online games while in offline mode and the message that appears for steam pages while offline is a saved html page that says you're offline
It also desyncs with stuff, I found this out when a model for GMOD was taken off the workshop but it appeared on the spawn list on offline mode because I already had it saved where it doesn't appear when you're offline

>>387796891
Yes, you need to be online to enter offline mode.
A storm knocked out your internet connection? Looks like it's Good Old Games for you! Hope you stocked up on installers!

>>387797169
it's never not worked for me.

>>387791650
>implying I buy games on steam
gog or bust pleb

>>387796891
Yes, it is hilarious. Especially because the shit didn't even work for ages at all and idiots still defended it.

Official Steam knowledge base article on Offline mode:
>Using Offline Mode
>Start Steam online

Anyone excited for monster hunter ?
As long as i can turn things on and off in the options i'll be fine with it.

>>387797060
>And you couldn't do a thing about it.
I guess that happens to retards like you that have everything on auto-update and then complain when some update fucks up their system because they automatically allow to install shit without review.
Also you can write any retarded bullshit you want in TOS but that doesn't mean it hold water, see refunds after OTHER OS was removed from PS3.
According your logic SONY should just have said 'go fuck you' yet they did refunds to people that used Linux so fuck off with your FUD.

>>387796837
I know the EU has been needling that to make things you buy on Steam function more like actual property.
One of the side effects of that was the ruling that forced the refund scheme iirc.
Unfortunately Valve made Steam sales shit in response.

Consumer rights laws and the judiciary being able to rule that Dis Shit Ain't Right if things go to the wall in a big way means that in the event of Valve imploding it probably wouldn't be a total loss of everything, but it'd take a few years and probably a class action suit or two and plenty really would be lost.

>>387797020
No, it's never happened because preventing you using the software is completely unenforceable because you have the disc right there, and even if they could legally go and seize that (they can't) it wouldn't be worth it. That's why it's a moot point.
The TOS describes what you actually paid for, and usually that does give them stupid broad powers to revoke the license, but that in turn is curbed and made more sensible by wider consumer rights legislation.

>>387797169
Stuff you played sufficiently recently always used to work if you switched to offline mode; I assume there's some kind of check in that happens when you launch the game while connected, and that stays valid for a few months offline. I used to use it back in dorms where the ports Steam used were blocked; install what you wanted for the term and launch each one of them, then set offline mode on worked reliably for me. The length of time you had before you needed to go back online used to be buried somewhere in Steam but fucked if I remember where.

>>387797608
Your post is okay

>>387797608
>No, it's never happened because preventing you using the software is completely unenforceable because you have the disc right there, and even if they could legally go and seize that (they can't) it wouldn't be worth it.

I believe it's happened to testers who have been caught leaking. I don't know if their copies of the game in particular that have something special about them that retail copies won't or if the console itself has a mechanism for locking out particular software but there has been remote revocation of rights that result in software failing to execute on the consoles.

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I don't understand why people complain about offline mode in 2017 when you can get a 3g connection in the middle of the Africa. Do you fags live in a desert or something? Or are you some kind of casual downshifter who refuses to connect to steam, but a-ok with using PC and shitposting on /v/? Offline mode works indefinitely, assuming you were online before, there's no technological disaster that would fuck you up so badly you would still want to play video games, but won't have internet for longer than few days. I understand the complaints about online-only things when you're living with bad internet, but offline mode you only have to login once and then you're good to go, as long as you don't accidently remove the credential files on your PC, which are located in temp and steam folders.

Anti-consumer? Maybe, the whole Steam is not designed around niche situations like this, but that's another discussion.

>>387797565
>REEEEEEEEEEE
>Someone said something bad about my beloved Sony
No, you fucking retard.
I do not have it on auto-update. Not only do I not trust the Michael Jackson murderers, but I would also need to pay a monthly fee to even be able to "auto-update".

Also
>the Sony kikes were simply afraid of the class action lawsuit

What did people from Japan get?
NOTHING
What did people from Europa get?
NOTHING
despite Euros even paid a higher price for crappy half-software "backward compatibility".

And what did the few fags, that were even able to show all the proof, get? $55. KEK
The others got $9 only.

That's like
>buying a notebook for $599
>firmware update completely destroys said notebook
>company gives you $9 for your losses
>or $55 in case you have tons of photos and other shite proving that you actually used said notebook

>>387794543
You paid for the PC you're shitposting on, right? Or did you steal it like all the games you stole as well? Or are you a mobile phoneposting shitter?

I have all of my games downloaded and I haven't put steam online or downloaded any updates in months. Even if Steam decided to take away all the games I'm off of their grid

>>387798093
>Anti-consumer? Maybe
kek
try harder next time
too obvious shill is too obvious

>>387798306
Anti-consumer - yes
What next? If you think this way you're not using steam anyway, assuming I'm shill I don't care about you

>>387798083
Eh, testers are a special case since they're more employees than consumers. And yeah, I gather test builds are often different both to help protect against leaks and to facilitate debugging.

>>387794480
Retarded Gaben memes/TF2 spamming mongrels were considered cancer a long time ago.

>>387798287
>PC breaks down
>can't move games over to a new system without the Valve kikes, like you could in case you had physical media / Non-DRM'd games
>cry

>>387798337
I actually got Steam for a few free games and a few Humble Bundle games.
I would never be insane enough to pay anything more than $1 for 4 game rentals.

>>387798382
>not having backups
you deserve it

>>387796059
>consumer-minded
>Steam was probably forced into implementing a refund system by europe
>meanwhile other services that are regarded as "shit" like origin have a proper refund system

Yeah, no.

I'm not okay with that, that's the reason why I'm moving back to consoles again.

Since 2007 I used to own only a Nintendo console and having all of my hardcore gaming on PC. There's a shit ton of games that I would like to sell/borrow on my steam library but I'm not allowed to do so...

>>387798491
>backups of online DRM'd games
yeah, buddy. That doesn't work.
Unless you crack them, and then why would you give Valve a dime, when you pirate them anyway?

>>387798642
>why I'm moving back to consoles again.
I have bad news for you.
Consoles are dead. They are now restricted PCs with always online DRM, full game installations, 10+ GB updates and all sorts of other PC shite (of course without the good things about PC gaming).

>>387796408


You're actually retarded if you think ToS are be all end alls for court cases. Please neck yourself or do some research. Maybe look into a bit of the legal battle between a bunch of gold farmers and blizzard in a german court.

:^]

>>387798642
>>387798875
There is nowhere to run.

>>387798875
I can still go to any EB Games/Kijiji and sell the copy of a game that I don't want anymore. I can even donate the game if I'm willing to do so.

>>387799109
I'm back to playing with sticks and rocks.

>>387798531

EA got in trouble with the ACCC same as Valve did in regards to consumer law and Origin. To be fair, rather than the "See you in court!" and then whining like a baby when they lost that Valve did EA indicated to the ACCC they'd take measures to adhere to the law. I don't know if they actually have yet though.

>>387793359
Non-verifiable source.

>>387798452
I just disagree on the 'anti-consumer' definition you guys have, having to devise incredibly dumb situations where your 'anti-consumer' ideology would be applicable instead of focusing on real issues platform has.

Real issue: Steam has issues with customer support and technical server capability in some game. Dumb issue: Steam is a rental service so technically they can remove the game from your library whenever they wish (something that only happened only once and it was about MMO with servers that stopped working).

Real issue: steam versions of the games can conflict with mods/user patches/have missing content due to licensing issues. Dumb issue: To be in offline mode you have to login to steam first and download the game through servers, how horrifying, what if a meteor hits earch and wipes out 99% of humanity, how would I play my games then.

Real issue: some games that were avaliable on steam are not avaliable on it now and there's no way of getting it, without purchasing codes off third party sites.
Dumb issue: when Steam closes down, how would I play my games (even though it tos it clearly states that you will be given your games indefinitely if that even to occur, not to mention that this event is much less likely to happen before your dumbass physical media, be that CD, catridge, flash memory or whatever starts to degrade)?

>>387798642
with introduction of paid online and half gens like xbox one x one xbox one x x one x and ps4 pro 4k hd edition, consoles have inherited pretty much all of the negative traits of pc gaming

generously used launch patches make physical games worth less than they should be worth and it's not getting any better
xbone pre-launch shitstorm was merely delaying the apocalypse

it's too late

>>387798875
At least you're still able to rent, sell, lend, etc. regardless if TOS says you can/cannot. your physical console games.

Meanwhile "physical" releases on PC are probably nothing more than a tiny box with a steam key printed on some paper loosely flapping inside. Everyone is smart enough to not buy your "used" PC games, unless if it was some ancient DOS/Win9x game that doesn't do any online authentication.

>>387791650
protip you don't own any software just the license to use it regardless of whether it comes on physical media or not

>>387791650
same works with your property, assets, money in your bank account etc in real life.
Govt just lets you have them to use for now. If shit goes down and they decide they want/need it they'll take it back from you.

>>387794843
>comparing your options with consoles
what a virgin

>>387791650
because
>offline mode
>this isn't a console, I can just fucking pirate
Buying a PC game is nothing more than a courtesy I extend to the developer of a game