Modern video games are trash compared to classics like Chron

>>387583807
The modern equivalent isn't FFXV, it would be something like Tales series or I am Shitsuna, which also kinda sucks but hey, it's not FFXV bad.

>>387583807
>FFXV is the modern equivalent.
FFXV isn't ATB though.

That sounds like absolute trash compared to this though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5_pyG9C4po

It's a shame that the game isn't nearly as good as the 10/10 menu theme.

>>387583857
>>387584025
It's a very popular JRPG that released recently, it's roughly equivalent to Chrono Trigger, a very popular JRPG that released in the 90's.

>>387584027
Fuck off

>>387584027
I disagree, music alone doesn't make a game and that music while good has nothing to back it up to give the emotions it tries to elicit any depth. Chrono Trigger had likeable characters you cared about, so when you hear forboding music playing you actually feel the despair.

Chrono Trigger isn't that good by the virtue of the fact that it includes ATB combat.

>>387584401
The combat system works great, if you don't like it that's fine but it doesn't make the game bad.

>>387584548
No. ATB by default doesn't work well and brings down any game that includes it.

>>387583807
CT is overrated trash

>>387584628
I never had any problems with it, I bet you're one of those crybabies who thinks anything except turn based in a JRPG is bad.

>>387584680
I bet you've never even played it

>>387583807
This shit is literally NOTHING compared to Nier Automata.

>>387583807
Dragon Quest XI on the 3ds

>>387584831
Nier Automata is garbage and is already forgotten, CT will live on forever

chrono trigger isn't even as good as super mario rpg
it's kind of one of the low tier square snes games

>>387584830
ATB, at best, drags out every single encounter because you have to wait for every participant to take a command (FFIX is the perfect example). At worst it's full on artificial difficulty tier and gives enemies an unfair advantage (FFIV, FFVII).

Oh, and ATB is still a turn based system, you moron.

>>387584680
I honestly can't disagree here. It's atmosphere is easily the single greatest aspect that it has and possibly the best the SNES has to offer, but in just about every other regard it's fairly standard for a JRPG.

The bulk of the game is straight up linear and the battle system is just as shallow as most RPGs.

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>>387583807

Dragon Quest VIII, X and XI are as good as Chrono Trigger. In large part because the best part of the Chrono Trigger team made them.

And Vanillaware games are keeping the medium budget feel of Chrono Trigger alive.

>>387584929
>smRPG is better than CT

Has a more shit opinion ever been uttered?

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XV's combat was decent, shame the game itself was unbalanced.

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>>387583807
Xenoblade Chronicles was way more impressive to me. Like seriously? People living on giant 'mechs' or whatever? Who the hell thinks of that? Awesome.

Chrono trigger is an overrated bucket of puke. The art looks like shit, the music is shit, the story is fucking retarded and so is the combat. I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to waste time on such a trash game.

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Classic Turn-Based and ATB are equal in their unengaging, mindless nature. They weren't even a product of """gameplay limitations""", they were a product of creatively bankrupt developers.
These old school SNES RPGs praised as classics are just visual novels with shitty plots and forgettable characters. Phantasia is exactly the same, except with actual gameplay.

>>387585150

Is that the only reason you like it? I just started playing this game and honestly I'm kind of finding the combat and exploration to be lackluster. And every time I reach a new area or boss, I have to sit through a tutorial because they flood you with a billion skills.

>>387585032
yeah just look at the OP of this thread

>>387584301
Final Fantasy now is compared to Final Fantasy then.
Chrono Trigger wasn't super popular until emulation allowed everyone to play it.

>>387585241

>Classic Turn-Based and ATB are equal in their unengaging, mindless nature.
Not at all. True turn based allows you to think of what to do. Actual strategy is involved. ATB just encourages the player to mash attack since it is faster than choosing a skill.

Now of course you can also just mash attack in a turn based game instead of using skills. But that's your own fault. Like those idiots who hit a wall and grind 10 levels in a Dragon Quest game, then blame the game. You wouldn't need to grind if you actually used the skills given to you. Instead you just mash attack and throw a fit when it doesn't work.

>These old school SNES RPGs praised as classics are just visual novels with shitty plots and forgettable characters.
No one is going to say an RPG plot is the gold standard for writing. But some of them are still well written. Just like a movie for 'kids' can still be engaging if you have an open mind.

>Phantasia is exactly the same, except with actual gameplay.
The gameplay in Tales games are shit though. There's plenty of other ARPGs with better gameplay. Even Seiken Densetsu 2 is better.

>>387585418
>Chrono Trigger wasn't super popular until emulation allowed everyone to play it.

Wow, go back to class kid

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>>387585764

He's not exactly wrong. Chrono Trigger sold like 600,000 copies in the west. Which is higher than most JRPGs, but not exactly Final Fantasy/Pokemon level popular. Only one person in my school owned a physical copy for example. But once emulation became common though, everyone played it. All my friends played it through emulation.

OP comparing Chrono Trigger to FFXV is just stupid though.

Suikoden 2 > Trigger

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>>387586904

They're both equally good for different reasons.

>>387585443
>True turn based allows you to think of what to do.

Action games allow you to "think of what to do", except they give you much more freedom and expect you do do this faster.

>Actual strategy is involved.
When? Give me an actual scenario in an actual RPG where such strategic thinking happens in a more in-depth way then what occurs in action games and RTS.

>Now of course you can also just mash attack in a turn based game instead of using skills.
Umm, this is such a low standard that you're just shitting yourself. You're basically admitting that the games do generally allow you to play them in such an utterly mindless way and let you get away with it and that you basically have to pretend the case is otherwise and deliberately restrict yourself to make things 'strategic'. But of course, you can do this in every other genre, and get something with even more depth.

>You wouldn't need to grind if you actually used the skills given to you.

So I take it that just doing something other than spamming attack is 'strategy' to you? I mean, there's way more tactical play going on in a match of something like Rocket League, but ok.

>The gameplay in Tales games are shit though.
How so compared to most turn based JRPGs? I mean, I don't even disagree that there are other action/RPG games with better combat.

>>387583807
>No one can match the magic and atmosphere created by these games:

Why not? What changed?

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>>387586904
My African American brother

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>>387583807
Seems to me like you need to play more JRPGs

>>387587405
>thinking edgy SMT whos only merit is shock value is good

>>387587335
Games turned from a niche product to mass market lowest common denominator

>>387588003
You still get passion projects with every ounce of love and care put into it. Like Yakuza 0, Nioh or sonic mania

>>387587571
Please explain exactly what you mean by "shock value". Where does shock value come into play with SMT games?

Yknow it's funny that these boring ass JRPGs are lauded so much for being games when really they only succeed in story and atmosphere. For example: Earthbound is one of my favorite games but the game/challenge reward systems are only there to string me along thru the story and atmosphere. Without those battles I doubt the game would be able to hold interest as well, and the weird enemies are great but there is nothing actually interesting about the combat itself. Idk guy, you want a tingle? Go play a game that's lauded for the story, I'm sure there's a nu-CRPG out there to tickle your fancy.

>>387587405
Modern SMT is bad.

Old SMT is also bad, but at least I like those.

>>387587259

>Action games allow you to "think of what to do", except they give you much more freedom and expect you do do this faster.
>and expect you do do this faster.
Good job proving the point you were responding to.

>When? Give me an actual scenario in an actual RPG where such strategic thinking happens in a more in-depth way then what occurs in action games and RTS.
In an action game, you learn strategy through trial and error. Bringing up RTS is a really bad example since this is magnified even worse in those games. As you are experiencing a zerg rush for the first time, you have no way to counter it. You lack the skills to have planned ahead for it, as countering it takes planning such as having adequate scouting and the right build order to counter it. Planning you don't learn until after you have failed. Playing a turn based (tactical) game on the other hand, you have the time to see what is coming and plan on how to deal with it. You have the option of winning the battle on the very first try with the options given to you. You may think this makes it 'too easy' or whatever comeback you're going to use, but it's still a fact that turn based games allow you to make these types of tactical decisions.

Things are not that different in an ARPG vs a turn based RPG. Sure, you can still get through some battles in an ARPG without dying the first time. But it really depends on how balanced the game is. If they give you adequate amount of HP and time to learn an enemies tactics and respond with your own. If they don't give you that time, then the player starts to default back to just spamming attack, which is faster than trial and error skills. ATB suffers from the same issue. It just turns out Chrono Trigger gives you plenty of HP (time) to try out skills. While a game like FFIV on DS has a boss OHKO you for using the wrong skill.

>>387589937
You're still not explaining where this strategy comes from.

>>387591216

Yes I did. Try reading the post again.

>>387583807
game created at peak of japan's bubble economy

>>387584974

>it's fairly standard for a JRPG

Oh fuck off! the attention to detail in chrono trigger is fucking incredible, the way character with projectile weapon act shocked when they miss, that bit where enemy appear when you make a sound and they put a save point just to trick you

How about how every boss in the game is different? I still remember that sand boss that you defeat by making him harder with ice/water spells

>>387589937

so besides using damage abilities / spells and buffs/debuffs to make the former more effective, and occasionally healing, where exactly is the strategy in jrpgs

>>387592027

so besides using damage abilities / spells and buffs/debuffs to make the former more effective, and occasionally healing, where exactly is the strategy in ARPGs?

>>387592072

As soon as positioning and timing of attacks matter thanks to the "action" element, there is a wealth of microchoices that open up and determine performance. Not so in a turn based game where you're only selecting the skill that does the most damage or healing when you need.

>>387583807
Well that's a bit unfair. As you said CT is a classic. Comparing one of the best games of all time to the majority of modern games isn't fair.

There were plenty of shit games back then as well. And FFXV is not the modern equivalent of CT lmao.

>>387592210
Why are you completely ignoring resource management?

JRPGs always have the shallowest gameplay, it doesn't have the depth of CRPGs, it doesn't require the skill of action games, it doesn't require the tactical thinking and planning of games like X-COM, they're just adventure games with light gameplay.

>>387593035
what resource management? most JRPGs let you be a walking warehouse.

>>387593492
They do now. That wasn't always the case.

>>387583807
>Most fights are easily beaten by just spamming attack
The game is a master piece in anything but gameplay. Having AoE attacks and moving targets is a nice addition but the mechanic doesn't appear often enough to make most encounters any better than spam2win shit.