There's no doubting it anymore. MGS2 is the definitive MGS

MGS 2 is right alongside MGS 4 as the games that utterly fucked canon beyond all recognition

>>387572648
if MGS2 is so good, then why did MGS4 have to answer the questions MGS2 created?

Was it all real or VR? (real)
Who were the Patriots? (the cast of MGS3 who built an AI who became self aware)
What happened to Olga's Kid? (Sunny is alive and well)
Was Rose really pregnant? (Yes)

>>387572763
Because MGS4 has a terrible plot that had to piggyback off the plots of better games. MGS4 is still fantastic, though.

>>387572707
this

>>387572707
MGS2 was supposed to be the last and disregarding the lore is intentional

>>387572648
mgs 1-3 are all tight
1 has that classic game feel, you can pop that sucker in and beat the whole game in 3 hours

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>beat MGS 1 and get the Meryl ending
>MGS 2 happens and suddenly I'm pigeonholed into being Otacon's fuckbuddy

Don't even get me started on MGS 4

1 > 2 > 3 > 4
this is objective

>>387572648
>definitive
Probably not.
>best game of the series
This much I can agree with.
>>387572707
MGS2 didn't fuck anything up, though. It made a sequel tricky, but MGS2 wasn't meant to have one.

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>>387573214

>>387573279
2 > 3 > 1 >>> V > 4 > PW

>>387573214
what was the other ending?
I've played mgs three times but I'd feel like a bitch if I gave in to the the torture

>>387573279
but 1 is objectively inferior to both 2 and 3.

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>>387572971
I hate this argument, you MGS2 fags bring it up every time 'it's okay that it's stupid and terrible because that's the point'
Just fuck off

>>387573424
he escapes the island with otacon instead of meryl

>>387573424
Meryl dies and it plays exactly the same but Otacon drives instead.

>>387573470
I don't think you understood either that poster's point, or the plot of MGS2 itself.

>>387573470
What's so stupid and terrible about it, though? Liquid coming back was a stupid idea, but other than that it's not that much different from MGS1's story; it's just a little more subversive.

>>387572648
How can it be the definitive MGS experience when even the game itself admits that its just a poor imitation of MGS1?

>>387573543
I'm pretty certain I understood it, I just didn't find it as 'deep' as people on this site seem to get off on claiming it to be
A story based around misinformation with very little actual substance

>>387573630
Half the game is people having incredibly boring discussions that you eventually discover mean even less than you think and the other half is a much less interesting game than MGS1

Of course the Plant mission was real. If it weren't, then the bit of dialogue between Snake and Otacon at the end would be pointless. For whose sake is that meant for? The player's? Because it's certainly not for Raiden seeing as how he doesn't even hear any of it. If it's for the player, then what's the point? Just to raise further questions? I mean, yeah, it does, but if the point was to make the player question whether or not any of that was real in the context of the setting and characters, then that last bit shouldn't be there at all. It provides nothing.

>>387573469
>>387573365
You are objectively incorrect. MGS had superior plot direction, theme implementation and design than both 2 and 3, delivering the most consistently excellent experience. I'd forgive you having the (incorrect) excusable opinion that 2 is better, but not 3.
>>387573825
You are simply not intelligent enough to understand it

>>387573470
nigga it's not a bad argument. almost all the games beforehand had the same plot, and mgs2 was literally a commentary about the template

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>>387572648
>>387572971
>>387573079
>>387573292
>>387573365
>>387573847

I'm getting back to it years after years, and after every new playthrough i appreciate it more.

>>387573847
Raiden is the player

>>387573915
>You are simply not intelligent enough to understand it
I love this argument, it's based around the idea that if you understand it you have to like it
I understood it, I also saw it for the shallow pretentious bullshit it is
You're just not smart enough to see it

>>387573959
Just because it makes a commentary about itself doesn't mean it's a good game

>>387574076
Then like I said, the last bit of dialogue doesn't really add to that. Snake and Otacon are talking in a place where Raiden can't hear them. There is a conversation going on that Raiden isn't aware of. If the objective is to make the player question where any of this is real for Raiden, then that bit of dialogue hurts that premise. It must have been real, or else Snake and Otacon would never have had that conversation.

>>387574076
Not in the ending after Solidus. You even see the exact moment where Raiden casts the player away.

The bit with Otacon and Snake was something else entirely

>>387574149
well it's not exactly for everyone is it. Probably not deep and comes off as maybe cliche to a lot of people, but I thought it was cool and just way ahead of shit at the time

>>387574038
>old men

Isn't Snake in his late 30's - early 40's in MGS 1? Why would you care about the non-target market of a game anyway?

I'm so confused.

>>387573959
>and mgs2 was literally a commentary about the template

how so?

>>387574263
This is a good point, maybe I was jaded by playing it in 2011

>>387574353
MG,MG2,MGS1, and Ghost Babel pretty much all had the same plot about Snake infilitrating a fortress and destroying Metal Gear. Hideo notices this and the fact he's shit at making up a new story he makes MGS2

>>387573686
>poor imitation
It's as close to MGS1 as MG2 is, which is to say that it might toy with the same overall structure but the games are rather different overall. The similarities are more relevant to the characters than they are to the audience.

for me it's 1 = 3 > 2 > 4
just beat 4 for the first time and fuck, the level design was bland, it felt very similar to portable ops, 3's environment looks and feels way better than 4's, at least it was an okay movie, even though it's been so long since i beat the first three games i still shed a tear at "snake had a hard life" part

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MGS2's rabid fanbase is perhaps the most deluded group of people related to video games. It's fucking unreal.

The game is not fun to play for a significant portion of it. The level design doesn't lend itself well to the idea of sneaking, it's a lot of long open hallways and getting spotted from miles away where you can't even see. While there's a certain level of challenge in MGS2's design, more often than not it's just annoying. It's not enjoyable. Saying that this is intentional in order to make the player criticize the concept of the game is incredibly foolish.

Furthermore, the characterization is bad. In the case of Fortune this is obviously very intentional and she's actually done well for what she's supposed to represent: a melodramatic whiny shit. The other characters are basically caricatures, even Otacon once you get into his backstory with Emma getting killed for absolutely no reason whatsoever. She's just thrown into the narrative to give Otacon apparent depth that he doesn't actually have. And don't even fucking get me started on Rose or Vamp. The relationship between Fatman and Stillman is one of the most interesting parts of the game but even that is hardly expanded upon in favor of just uninteresting progression.

The thing people like to call out is that MGS2 is a commentary on video games. They get sucked into this and think it somehow excuses the game being poorly conceived in many other respects. That's not to say I think MGS2 is an outright bad game; rather, I think it's far worse than the fanbase in some places (like /v/) pretends it is. It is not a holy grail. It is not "kino". It's a series of underwhelming experiences that get ignored due to the ending being conceptually strong. The ending sequence is in fact pretty good, and it does bring up a lot of interesting concepts, but I'd argue that the people who excuse what came before that ending are incapable of analyzing the whole work. A good ending does not make up for a mediocre process.

>>387573915
>MGS had superior plot direction, theme implementation and design than both 2 and 3,
Eh.

>>387574664
>A good ending does not make up for a mediocre process.

there was a good ending in MGS2? The entire last part was shit

>>387574664
>it's a lot of long open hallways and getting spotted from miles away where you can't even see.
>being this open about being fucking awful at video games
Truly we live in a progressive time.

>>387574767
delete this right now, repulsive plebeian

>>387574838
>delete this right now, repulsive plebeian

no because the ending in MGS2 was bad

>>387574768
MGS2 is absolutely the most difficult MGS game but it's not due to there being any actual challenge. It comes down to tedium. You get spotted from miles away once, and then you learn that the best strategy is to lure people with magazines. I didn't really have any problems completing MGS2, it just wasn't fun to do it in most of the larger areas.

>>387572648
All other Metal Gear games are shit compared to V.

>>387574946
V is for people who don't like video games

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mgs3>mgs2>mgs1>mgspw>mgs5>mgs4

>>387574912
>MGS2 is absolutely the most difficult MGS game but it's not due to there being any actual challenge.
thats not saying much, mgs isnt even that hard

>>387573915
>delivering the most consistently excellent experience
TEN FUCKING FLIGHTS OF STAIRS

>>387574998
>V is for people who don't like video games with actual great gameplay

Ftfy.

Post yfw you first heard the final codex

>>387575071
Didn't it get your blood flowing, anon?

>>387574353
Literally one of the plot points of MGS2 is that it plays out almost exactly in the same way as MGS

>>387575101
>copy pasted shit instead of well designed areas
>no boss fights
v has no soul, but enjoy reading video kojimas name every mission

>>387575193
Don't forget that Raiden was literally trained from the MGS virtual missions

>hurr durr you are too stupid to understand mgs2
there isnt a SINGLE person that can explain the story of mgs2

>>387575029
This is correct, any other ranking is skewed by either nostalgia or a desire to fit into the /v/ hivemind

>>387574912
>get spotted from miles away
You don't, though. Enemy vision in MGS2 isn't that much more capable than it is in MGS1; the environments are just more dense and guards move more quickly and with greater coordination in the event you trigger a Caution Phase.

Acting carefully and using tools like the first-person view are all you need to survive MGS2. It's a more demanding game than the rest (save for maybe Ghost Babel's higher difficulties), no question, but it's hardly unfair -- even before you activate a node and get the radar for an area. You sound like you expected to be able to just blow through with impunity or something.

>>387572648
Also, Kojima called it, over 15 years ago. So many of the political/technological themes in the game are everyday facts of life now. Information control at the hands of shadowy government/deep state actors (NSA global spying, fake news bots influencing democratic elections, Super PACs buying elections, ISPs lobbying against net neutrality), military training through VR, artificial intelligence filtering through vast amounts of shitposting to influence people, nuclear proliferation by nonstate actors, private armies hired by the US to protect black sites, not to mention FUCKING RAILGUNS AND FORCEFIELDS!

>>387575193
>Literally one of the plot points of MGS2 is that it plays out almost exactly in the same way as MGS

that's because of the Solid Snake Simulation.

>>387575286
>there isnt a SINGLE person that can explain the story of mgs2
that is why I use these videos:
http://chipandironicus.com/videos/mgs4/1u.html

because fuck replaying MGS2

>>387575423
>Fortune forcefield real
Where did you hear this

>>387574912
I agree, the fact that guards have to do check-ins really makes the game harder than it has to be

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Hi faggots

>>387575286
>In universe
AI created by what is the equivalent of the Illuminati in the MGS universe is now testing their methods of controlling thoughts and actions through simple and subtle suggestions to train people into unwillingly follow them to prevent the over flow of information across the world. The whole scenario at the facility was made to replicate the events of Shadow Moses, making it so that they can test this method and see if they can get the same results as Shadow Moses. Meanwhile, Solidus wants to take down this AI and create a new order. Solid Snake wants to stop both since his philosophy is to let life live. Raiden is just the guinea pig in the experiment

>Meta
Gamers are being trained to take what they know and only play from what they already know of a series. It also takes apart how sequels are generally made with "Same as the first but with some tweaks". It also has commentary about society and the internet allowing anyone to have a voice, allows those with voices to band together to create echo chambers and champion their voices as the only "right" voices.

>>387575286
It's a basic existentialist story about identity with respect to external influences/information with technobabble conspiratorial garnishing.

There's more than just that going on, like how the game sets up and subverts some expectations with regard to its status as a sequel, but that's the gist of it.

>>387575579
It's the only one I have not played yet, should I?

>>387575631
Oh yes, better than 2, nart as good as 3.

>>387574038
he's right, you know.

Mei-Ling>Para-Medic>Rose>Otacon

Anyone want to disagree?

>>387575631
it's just a remake of MGS1 using the MGS2 engine

it's also silly as hell

>>387575783
Would up rose for jiggly

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>>387575783
Para-medic rubs her ass hole across mei-ling's nose. Para-medical best girl.

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>>387575783
Sniper Wolf

>>387575214
>copy pasted shit instead of well designed areas
Stopped reading right there, at least put in effort in pretending you played the game.

>>387572648
It really is

>>387575589
>It also takes apart how sequels are generally made with "Same as the first but with some tweaks"

isn't that the point of sequels?

>>387572763
Because MGS2 was supposed to be the last Kojima MGS
Not the last Kojipro MGS

>>387572707
Holy shit you're retarded. MGS2 made the whole lore for MG series.

>I have never played MGS once, but I love pretending either smartly or shoddily: The thread.

>>387576474
>Because MGS2 was supposed to be the last Kojima MGS

any official source? I all I see is MGS2 fans pulling shit out of their ass.

Along with headcanon bullshit like with the dog tags being symbolic for some reason

>>387576486
and that lore sucked

>>387575335
MGS3 is reddit.

>>387576230
I did but dropped after part 1, got too boring and tiresome

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Im still stuck on vamp

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>>387576686
git gud

>>387576686
use explosives

and shoot out the lights. Those stop his shadow pin attack

>>387576686
ur gonna love that extreme replay boi

>>387576613
I'm sure there are plenty of Kojima interviews that back up the dog tags thing
As for the last Kojima MGS thing, he's been saying that it was the last MGS he was going to make since MGS2

>>387576716
>>387576727
>>387576746
it isnt the shadow blade bullshit, its that fucking dash attack
I just cant avoid it and the motherfucker spams it and kills me

>>387576686
Use the Stinger. It makes the game lag like fuck meaning his invuln never activates and he never dies but he takes a shitload of stinger shots

it's cheese but it's the easiest way to do the fight

>>387576839
have you tried cartwheeling into the void?

>>387575508
The DARPA chief

http://www.popsci.com/boeing-just-patented-force-field-lasers

>>387575783
Para-Medic > Sniper Wolf > Mei-Ling > Meryl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rose

Otacon is bro tier

>>387577307
Uhhhh the DARPA chief is dead, colonel

Personally, I find playing without a radar in MGS1 and 2 to be really irritating. The fundamental issue I have with it is that, often, you can't really see what's in front of you unless you stand still and press a button. That one fact alone makes playing without a radar to be far more cumbersome than it should be.

At the same time, though, playing with the radar makes the whole thing really easy. There's no middle ground.

>>387575029
>>387575335
>>387576623
wrong.
>gameplay
3>V>2>4>PW>1
>story
V>2>3>1>PW>1

>>387577307
>Patent exists for basic form of energy shielding
>Functional laser weaponry is already in use and refinement of the technology is well underway
>Rockets that can safely return to Earth are being developed
>Fusion energy R&D is advancing steadily
>AI are becoming more and more advanced every day
Who else is excited about the fact that we're close to living in the space future

>>387574038
Raiden is best girl

>>387578109
Forgot to add
>3D printers are becoming more advanced and are basically primitive fabricators

>>387578109
>>387578310
what will be the point to people once we have perfect fabricators and perfect ai? or ai+the use of crispr?

>hurrr durrrrrr KOJIMA PREDICED EVERYTHING GUISE!!!
hey retards what if the people who created that shit took insipration from those games? dumbasses...

>>387578440
What's the point to people now?
Nothing is inherently meaningful, at least we can be meaningless in blissful comfort

Let's face it though, once we figure out how to dilate time within VR experiences we're all gonna plug into our eternity machines and never come out

3 sucks
1>>>2>4>3

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>>387578478
>dawkins went back in time to write the selfish gene after playing mgs2
>all the ai work in the 60s were time travelling scientists who played mgs2
>baudrillard was inspired by kojima
>pinnocchio was based off of mgs2
truly, kojima's genius knows no bounds

>>387572707
2 and 4 both intended to end the series.

Mgs5 is the best.

>>387572845
MGS4 is my favorite.

>>387574912
>You get spotted from miles away once
>once
I think you guys are missing a keyword here, and I'll be the first to point out that if you got spotted on the E-F/D-E connecting bridge you're a moron. A cutscene points out the guard with binoculars.

>>387575286
I can explain why I like MGS2 without bringing the story up at all. Substance had the most pure unadulterated content between the classic 3 MGS games. Snake Tales, more VR missions than Integral (although a disturbing lack of Mystery mode) and fucking skateboarding for no reason at all. Take that away, and 1 is my favorite.Substance has the most game content of the original trilogy, that's why I like it.

>>387576486
I'd say MG2 did.

>>387574664
The disarming bombs portion of the game teaches you the map of shell 1 and the guard placements on each connecting bridge. Then the game puts Raiden through several unconventional stressful unfair challenges in a row so you can see what he is made of. You need to haul ass across the map before a bomb explodes. The bomb does not show up on radar. You need to use the first person camera to see the bomb on the submarine. The coolant spray does not reach the bomb. You accidentally jump in the water. Fortune can not be shot and Vamp does not die even if you shoot him. You need to haul ass across the map before a bomb explodes. An overweight man on rollerblades is hiding bombs all over the room while shooting at you. Solidus is shooting missiles at you in a jet. The AK suppressor is in a silly place.
(1/2)

>>387579870
more = better
i remember having this logic when i was 12

(2/2)
THEN.
AFTER ALL THAT.
THERE IS A
FUCKING
FUCKING
FUCKING
WATER LEVEL.
The mission is all fucked up and it finds creative ways to get even more fucked up and Raiden keeps it together and handles the shit because he is a tough guy operator that is not afraid of anything not even homosexual wizard ninjas.
When all hope is lost and the bad guys are about to win and Raiden is naked and surrounded he does not hesitate he sneaks deeper into arsenal gear determined to fight an entire army on his own. He does not need to do it alone because the legendary soldier Solid Snake infiltrates arsenal gear to fight alongside Raiden and they kick everybodys ass like Batman and Robin in the most memorable and best boss in the game the tengu hallway fight. Then in the most memorable and best boss in the game Raiden fucks up 20 metal gear rays because he is the man. Then in the most memorable and best boss in the game Raiden has a swordfight with Solidus on the roof of federal hall. Raiden kills Solidus to protect the greatest nation ever to exist the home of the brave great soaring eagle God bless the United States America. Snake tells the allies of justice watching at home that they have a responsibility to future generations to protect freedom and defeat evil and the thing you must absolutely NOT do is "let the world be". Also Raiden knocked up his savegirl so the next generation Snake was talking about is real and exists at that moment as the child/nonviable tissue of Raiden and he has the responsibility to pass on truth justice and the american way to his offspring or just stash him in New Zealand whatever.
>>387574664 is pretty much a huge dumb fag with incorrect and gay opinions.

>>387579953
>>387579981
How does this refute any of what was said though?

>>387576613
>dog tags being symbolic
If you're talking about Raiden throwing away his at the end of the game, yes, it's 100% unambiguously symbolic without any real subtlety whatsoever. It's hardly "headcanon."

As for Kojima not intending a sequel for it:
>Once again I'd intended for MGS3 to wrap up the series, but so many people wanted to know what happened after "2". Things like the identity of the Patriots and so forth. I had planned on leaving those mysteries as mysteries, but people weren't convinced that the series was wrapped up. So ultimately we ended up making "4".

>>387575589
>It also has commentary about society and the internet allowing anyone to have a voice, allows those with voices to band together to create echo chambers and champion their voices as the only "right" voices.

We see this obnoxious behavior all the time on 4chan yet we all continue to come here and think our opinions ultimately matter. Many even get mad whenever other anons don't agree with their views.

Coming here for so long and seeing how wide opinions on games can be on the internet in general has made me realize that I need to trust my own judgment above all else when it comes to gaming. Even so called "trusted" reviewers cannot be completely trusted.

Seriously though opinions are all over the fucking place on the internet with all types of games. It gets pretty irritating but this is probably why I need to take a break from the internet hellhole once in awhile.

>>387575783
Olga is the best because she introduced me to my hairy pit fetish and armpit fetish in general

>>387576686
The easiest way to cheese vamp (even on extreme) has nothing to do with rockets, or any weapon really. It's all about abusing invincibility when jumping up from hanging.

>>387575589
>It also has commentary about society and the internet allowing anyone to have a voice, allows those with voices to band together to create echo chambers and champion their voices as the only "right" voices

I think it's weird that GW wants to stop this but is painted as a villain. I always thought that echo chambers weren't really the point, but the fact that someone wants to control the truth so that they can't happen seems to be the focus here. It's also interesting to me that there's a consistent theme of people hoodwinking Raiden and the player throughout the game by lying to them constantly, culminating with Kojima pretty much telling you that the entire game was one big lie in the end.

I think one of the main points of the game is the notion that having anyone with absolute control over what is or isn't true is inherently more harmful than extreme echo chambers. At least in those, people still have the freedom to decide whether they believe shit or not.

>>387580186
Pitfags are worse than even footfags

>>387579981
>mgs2 water level
>bad
this was straight up the easiest and comfiest part of the game. not sure why everyone hated it. it just seems like bitching. the part right after, the sniping on the bridge, was far worse.
>they kick everybodys ass like Batman and Robin in the most memorable and best boss in the game the tengu hallway fight.
>Then in the most memorable and best boss in the game Raiden fucks up 20 metal gear rays because he is the man
oh i see, you're just retarded.

>>387580040
i think he's trying to justify the claim that the ordering of all the events+the level design intentionally frustrates the player, rather than just being bad game design.

>>387580462
>I think one of the main points of the game is the notion that having anyone with absolute control over what is or isn't true is inherently more harmful than extreme echo chambers.
the point is that it is seriously damaging to the psyche of individuals to have their metanarratives toyed with. the game really has nothing to do with the internet, but the internet definitely exacerbates some of the problems that the game tries to address.

>>387575448
>solid
>snake
>simulation
>he didn't play the game

>>387579978
The driving gameplay for MGS is solid. It's difficult to fuck up. So yes, in this case, more is in fact better.

I think MGS2 is extremely pretentious. Back when I used to play these games, I didn't give a fuck about who Kojima was and what he was trying to do, I just wanted to play fun video games on my PS2 after school. Then suddenly this madman is throwing his game under the bus to make a point for an audience that I wasn't even a part of, all the while proving that he was capable of making a better game with the Tanker chapter but seemingly deciding not to out of spite.

I didn't really enjoy MGS2 back then, and I don't think the writing makes up for it even in retrospect. That's a bit too close to the insecure "but game are art" argument that people love to parrot for some reason.

>>387580949
honestly i think the fanbase is more pretentious than anything else

>>387580462
The point is that it's up to the individual to decide for himself what to believe and why, and how to act on what he believes, irrespective of echo chambers or whatever outside forces try to dictate. The Patriots are really just an abstraction for all various memetic influences and how they can shape us, though they are analogous to more concrete abuses of power as well.
>>387580949
>throwing his game under the bus
The Plant is about as good as the Tanker, though aesthetically it wasn't as memorable. I've never really understood this idea. It subverts expectations, sure, but it mostly just delivers typical classic Metal Gear stuff. It's just a little more openly weird.

>>387580040
What he said was he does not like sneaking past the retarded guards to backtrack to the strut F warehouse in between codec conversations where irrelevant characters nobody gives a fuck about spew a bunch of bullshit that does not matter. He does not like the weak points of MGS2.
The weak points of MGS2 are not the reason its fans stroke to it. We get off to the strong parts of MGS2, the cool boss fights and the parts of the story relevant to main character Snake main character Raiden and primary antagonist Solidus where the bad guy has a logical reason to perform an act of evil but he is thwarted by the forces of good at great personal cost and no reward but they kept the flag flying. I also like the cool robots and handsome men.

>>387581141
I vividly remember a lot of the Plant feeling like a chore. That may be because it goes on for longer, but most of the gameplay setpieces just rubbed me the wrong way. The constant Radar interruptions, cramped environments not meshing well with the camera, the unremarkable bomb disposal mission and anything to do with Emma really brought down the game for me.

Compared to most of the things he does in the rest of the series, MGS2 is easily a low point for me.

>>387575579
not enough buttons

>>387581447
>cramped environments not meshing well with the camera
You are always able to see what you need to, with first-person view available for scouting. The denser level design is a vital part of the game's quick pace and balance.
>unremarkable bomb disposal mission
The bombs are just a supplementary reason to explore and sneak around the Big Shell. They don't really intrude in any way, save for the backtracking you have to do to freeze the last bomb.
>anything to do with Emma
Same as above; she's just an extra variable you have to consider while sneaking.

In terms of core design, MGS2 is the most meticulous Metal Gear ever got (Ghost Babel, too).

>>387581783
Those are probably very good points. I'm really not in a position to argue over the design with only my potentially flawed memory of the game as I played it several years ago. My biggest pet peeve is how Kojima alienated people who weren't privy to a lot of the context needed to understand the game properly at the time.

I should probably replay it sometime, but I can't gather the motivation knowing how much I used to dislike it. The only reason I finished it at all was because a buddy of mine had lent me the game and I felt obligated to see it through.

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It's the first post-modern game and as we have come to see the current political climate of post-modernism fucking sucks. It's completely spooky how dead on the game was in many regards. Maybe that's why the real writer behind MGS2/3 ended up getting killed by the Yakuza.

MGS3 > MGS4 > MGSV > MGS2 >MGS1 > MGS:PW

>>387582734
spooky how accurate they were in regards to ze internet

>>387583103
Those small gated communities have left the internet and begun fighting each other on the streets. One cardinal truth fighting the other. Neither side can be invalidated, but neither of them is right.

>>387573279
you mean

3>1>2>>>4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5

>>387583276
explain in no less than one paragraph why 3 is in any shape or form superior to 2 or 1

>>387583504
gameplay mechanics,better bosses, more interesting locale, a stealth system that adds a bit of depth with the camo index, CQC techniques added

story is subjective so i wont count it, but I did thoroughly enjoy it as an espionage story.

2 is good in a sense that it predicted the worlds current state of affairs and solidus is a interesting anti hero/villain but ultimately the bosses were boring, I hated fortune and raiden and emma emmerich.

1 is pretty much on 3's level but 3 has a better camera system in subsistence and the gameplay was improved upon, also replayability was a thing at this point for scoring systems

tl;dr- just take the first paragraph I wrote

>>387582734
How did the Fukushima meme even start?
It makes no sense that people try to atribute evetything to him

>>387583504
It's fun

>>387583851
The drop in quality of writing from 3 -> 4/PW/V. Kojima is an ideas guy, not a story guy. Fukushima was obviously the one that could create a compelling story that wasn't filled with shit.

>>387583851
because 4 and 5 were garbage in the story department

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I still can't believe people hate MGS2 so much when it was the only MGS game after the first that took the mechanics to a logical conclusion. All of the areas were well designed and most importantly, TIGHTLY designed. You have a lot of options in areas but you're much closer to the soldiers than in the following games so you have to be precise. MGS3 introduced better soldier hearing which simply made the game play slower. There's no need to force the player to walk for any reason other than simulation. Then there's the stamina, menu bullshit and all sorts of needless trash the retarded children of MGS3 inherited.

MGS2 and the VR missions took the mechanic of "memorize soldier routes and execute the correct route around them" about as far as it could go. All the garbage smeared onto it that did nothing to contribute to this core concept made the series worse as a whole. However, I can understand why this would happen since just memorizing a route and executing is shallow as fuck so there isn't that much to build on in the first place.

actually, so shallow that what people talk about when they speak of MGS isn't the gameplay but everything around it

>>387583909
>>387583923
Yeah but how do you go from a guy who was in charge of codec to being the guy behind the story
Why do people never mention Murata?

>>387583845
A single sentence isn't a paragraph fuckhead

>>387584059
>Yeah but how do you go from a guy who was in charge of codec

More than half the story is told through the codecs, are you crazy? Fukushima had to make sure the rest of the game was written to make the codecs make sense. His absence in every game after Snake Eater is completely obvious.

>>387584065
yeah im typing on my phone piss drunk, read the fucking post ya cunt

>>387584059
>murata
apparently murata didnt have much influence on the writing until MGS4

>>387583504
mgs3 has a super fun rail shooter section that lasts the appropriate amount of time and teaches the player an important lesson about the finite number of minutes remaining before the cold hand of death grasps your throat there is no escape no hope and then the rail shooter continues for another 15 20 minutes.

>>387578581
>blissful comfort
I and some other people I know make a game out of finding hardships

Fuck comfort, it's boring. i need something new every year.

>>387584482
Alright, you have fun with your suffering
New things can be found outside of hardship

>>387584147
Wouldn't that make him more of a scripter?
What i'm trying to say is that, i always see anons trying to adjudicate the story just to Fukushima, instead of being the work of Kojima, Murata and Fukushima
Also i'm almost sure he was mentioned in the first trailer of MGS4
>>387584274
You're kinda right, he's still listed as a writer since Ghost Babel

>>387584775
Kojima is a writer and the director. Kojima loves movies, thats why the cutscenes in MGS games are so fucking stylized. Fukushima could be seen as the script writer. A good director with a great script can make one hell of a movie. But a good director with a shit script will always make a shitty movie.

>>387585165
Yeah i guess that's what i'm getting at, both are real good together
I think Kojima's abscence in Ghost Babel can also be noticed since the story is pretty much MGS1 lite

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>>387578109
>>387578310
you forgot stealth camo

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1855948_1863947_1863931,00.html

>>387585545
Have they gotten it to work on moving objects yet?

>>387585545
Nano machines

I won't say it's the best, it's my favourite. The simulation mindfuck narrative gives the game a nightmarish aesthetic that nothing else compares to.

>>387583060
MGS > MGS2 > MGS3

the rest don't exist

>>387583845
>gameplay mechanics
MGS3 expands the player's arsenal but the core sneaking is poorly balanced. The areas are always interesting to look around in, but the actual sneaking in MGS3 isn't all that well supported by the level design. The camo index doesn't really add depth so much as just change the pacing and aid in crippling the balancing. Same for CQC, though interrogation is a cool addition.
>>387583952
I love classic Metal Gear's gameplay for the pacing and the way the briskness of it complements exploration. Metal Gear 2, Ghost Babel, MGS2, are all excellent games that do that well.

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>>387572707
>>387572763
>>387572914
>>387573214
>>387573470
>>387573686
>>387573825
>>387573847
>>387573915
>>387574149
>>387574664
>waaaah kojima didnt gib me what i wanted
>i-i understand the themes, i just dont like it

if you TRULY understood MGS2 as a postmodern work of art (or """art""", if you don't consider vidya to be art), you'd stop hating on the game for subverting your expectations. The game is excellent gameplay wise and basic narrative wise even without the myriad of its complex themes, which plebs can only surmise as "the game was shit on purpose lol" which serves to illustrate that you really DON'T get it despite claiming you do

>>387587496
>The game is excellent gameplay wise and basic narrative wise
Fucking kek
The gameplay is the same as MGS1 but made worse by bad level design and terrible implementation of new features that add nothing to the game
And the story is horseshit, it's a giant mess that means nothing and then you're expected to think it's great when you're told it's meant to mean nothing

>Acktewally the fact that you don't like it means you obviously didn't get it
This is all you're actually saying and it's retarded
MGS2 may be art but that doesn't mean it's good art, it shows us the vision of it's creator like art is meant to do but that vision is tedious, annoying and way shallower than it pretends it is

>>387587496
READ my POST before you REPLY fuckhead
I in NO WAY implied that MGS2 was anything but excellent, you misconstrued my opinion that it was inferior to MGS as disparagement. DO NOT make this mistake again or I will make you sorry

>>387587920
>bad level design and terrible implementation of new features that add nothing to the game
lol MGS2 is super tight and every basic feature is instrumental to the game, especially the stuff that people complain about (camera and controls) because they're simply not proficient at it yet. MGS2's gameplay is based on line of sight and what you're willing to do to acquire it to observe guard patterns and efficiently beat them

>MGS2 may be art but that doesn't mean it's good art
this shows in the most clear way that you don't get it, because there is no such thing as "good art" or "bad art". If you think "oh, I get this, but this is bad art", then you simply don't understand or appreciate the artist's vision and sympathize with it as much as you initially think you did. This is the criticism that people often give art with any hint of postmodernism, that "oh i get dis its bad on purpose" when it's so much more. Kojima doesn't owe you the MGS that you wanted to play, Kojima created something that he wanted to and that he had fun with and that transcended MGS even though it was still tied to the MGS ip. You can call the marketing, the trailers, the previous games, the tanker chapter "deceptive", but it's only deceptive if you perceive it that way. It was a great effort from Kojima and many people appreciated it. If you get mad or disappointed, that's really only your problem

>>387573279
MGS3 > MGS1 > MGS2 > MG2 > MG.

>>387588803
>there is no such thing as "good art" or "bad art"
having gone to school for fine arts, i can tell you this is a load of horseshit and really shows how stupid you are.

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>>387572648
retarded dog shit with hilariously forced fan theories

>>387574038
there goes the whole fucking theory MGS2 is intentionally a shitty version of Shadow Moses and Raiden was made a silly fag just to fuck with fan expectations

>>387575783
Mei-Ling in 4 was money. I don't typically go for asians but they did her right.

>>387589035
>i went to school for fine arts
ok buddy explain to me why MGS2 is "bad art" and therefore devoid of not only any artistic merit, but also of any artistic value

>>387587496
Postmodernism is a shitty ideology for liberals.

>>387572648
Nice meme. While the game is great it stays the worst in the series. Some 2deep4you shit is enough to make kids praise this fucking game baka

>>387572845
MGS4 is a masterpiece and the ultimate ending you could ever ask for.
Except for Kojima's original intended ending for 4, look it up.

>>387572648
there is a lot of doubt about OP's taste and sexuality.

>>387573279
1=4>3>2
Facts of life.

>>387572648
>Trash gameplay
>Ambitious plotline marred by awful writing, awful localization and awful characters
You're right, MGS2 is the definitive MGS game.

>>387574664
The most annoying sect of the game's fanboys are the ones that think Kojima is so clever, original and prophetic cause he made a commentary on the dangers of digital information.

just fuck off you underage faggots

>>387589459
i'm not the guy you were responding too, and i like mgs2. but the statement "there is no such thing as 'good art' and 'bad art'" is just very dumb, i am sorry to say.

>>387574768
it's true mgs 2 is unfair and unfun but not difficult.

enemies can spot you from miles away and you don't have the mini map for a decent portion of the game to compensate for the limited vision.

>>387574912
>You get spotted from miles away once, and then you learn that the best strategy is to lure people with magazines.
>This game is hard because you have to learn the best strategies thats so dumb!!

>>387591553
I asked you to explain why you put such "objective" classifications to something that is inherently subjective. I doubt your teachers do that. Art is art. Being upset because an artist's journey in creating the piece did not necessarily involve artistic skill is your problem. Avant garde works need to acknowledge the existing artistic movements in order to exist themselves, but for a plethora of reasons, these new artists (which may be excellent art students or someone who has never gone to art school) create new pieces that are perceived to be unskilled.

Picasso could draw in a more 'realist' style just as well as the style he pioneered

One of the few examples I can think of that is 'bad art' is the one from Donald Trump's book about one of his friends that just smeared paint on a canvas randomly just for some money, but that style of painting in itself, especially paired with the story gaining recognition, now gives value to the work.

>>387591425
and you fell for it lmao :D

>>387574664
>The game is not fun to play for a significant portion of it. The level design doesn't lend itself well to the idea of sneaking It's not enjoyable.
wrong. git gud. the game is super fun to play. MGS1 had awful design choices and people hail it as a masterpiece. MGS2 is very tightly designed but you just can't git gud

>Furthermore, the characterization is bad.
wrong. funny that the most 1 dimensional character dynamic (Stillman-Fatman) is the one you like the most. All of the characters in the game are excellent

>The thing people like to call out is that MGS2 is a commentary on video games.
>They get sucked into this and think it somehow excuses the game being poorly conceived in many other respects
you got sucked into the idea of criticizing this game just because of ONE of the many many aspects and themes of it being the meta message

>>387593443
>the game is bad for this and this reasons
>wrong you just suck and it's good cause i say it is

what a detailed and intricate response.

>>387592817
>I asked you to explain why you put such "objective" classifications to something that is inherently subjective.
no, you asked me why mgs2 was devoid of artistic merit, which i don't think it is devoid of. similar questions, but not the same thing. and just because something is subjective, does not mean the subjective quality applied within a statement is not true or something that does not exist.
>Art is art.
Truth is truth.
>Being upset because an artist's journey in creating the piece did not necessarily involve artistic skill is your problem.
you are right, as someone who is trying to make it in the world for art. it is really shitty for artists who are putting work in when someone can make a few grand by transferring the mess of their apartment to a gallery to capture "the zeitgeist" or some pretentious shit, or when they just piggyback HARD off of the works of others (fuck ready-mades)
>Avant garde works need to acknowledge the existing artistic movements in order to exist themselves, but for a plethora of reasons, these new artists (which may be excellent art students or someone who has never gone to art school) create new pieces that are perceived to be unskilled.
Avant-Garde can be used to describe any "fringe" artwork. works that are usually unpopular or difficult to grasp. it has nothing to do with the claim "there is no good or bad art."
>Picasso could draw in a more 'realist' style just as well as the style he pioneered
except there was skill and conceptual bollocks behind Picasso's cubism.

>there's no such thing as "bad art'
>but here's an example of bad art
idiot.

>>387594493
>similar questions, but not the same thing
I keep pressing you to answer why you, such a fine student of fine arts, to be taken most seriously, have such a conservative view of art, and you keep dodging the subject, though you were the one who initially brought up your 'credentials' for authority points
>Avant-Garde can be used to describe any "fringe" artwork. works that are usually unpopular or difficult to grasp.
not the best description, since avant-garde is new art, made by new artists, who have been spoonfed old conventions and are trying to get rid of them. Calling new things "fringe" shows a very conservative mentality, which again, is odd for someone who calls himself a young artist. Do you realize that even classical art has meaning to it besides being a work of skill?

>except there was skill and conceptual bollocks behind Picasso's cubism.
this was part of my point (not just cubism btw)

>>there's no such thing as "bad art'
>>but here's an example of bad art
>greentext memes

>idiot.
no need to get upset :)

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>>387594032
"""not an argument lol"""

you really think you did a great critique of the game there, huh? not once did you provide a real example of a bad game design decision or provide a real analysis of the story, characters and themes besides "i don't like it because it's bad"

>>387595495
>you keep dodging the subject
no. i already said im not the person you were originally talking to. i came in at the point just to refute your claim that "there is no good or bad art." then you asked why mgs2 has no artistic merit. then i told you i actually like mgs2, im just here to make the claim that there is good and bad art. then you changed your question. i then pointed out that you changed your question, and answered it. now you ignore my answer (just because something is subjective, does not mean the subjective quality applied within a statement is not true or something that does not exist.) and say that i am dodging your question, which is wrong. i did no such thing.
>avant-garde is new art, made by new artists, who have been spoonfed old conventions and are trying to get rid of them.
by shedding conventions you become fringe art. my descriptor was perfectly valid.
>this was part of my point
except your statement about picasso was preceded by another statement about how these works may seem unskillful, which i was refuting. picasso was skilled. you also seem to be projecting this opinion on me that avant-garde art cannot be good art, which is not a claim i made. i DID imply that there is a lot of bad avant-garde art, but i never claimed it cannot be good. again, all i was saying was that the statement "there is no good or bad art" was a stupid thing to say.

>>387596285
>just because something is subjective, does not mean the subjective quality applied within a statement is not true or something that does not exist
ok now type that again but pretend that you finished high school so non-autists can decipher it

>by shedding conventions you become fringe art
your descriptor was pointless and deceptive. 'fringe' is usually a derogatory term for something niche, inacessible, as you said "unpopular or difficult to grasp", when in fact many works that were considered avant garde at the time, such as Picasso's, are now considered modern and very commonly studied. Avant garde in many cases is the development of a new movement, not an eternally obscure fetish

>about how these works may seem unskillful
yes. may SEEM unskillful. may or may not be so.

>you also seem to be projecting this opinion on me that avant-garde art cannot be good art, which is not a claim i made. i DID imply that there is a lot of bad avant-garde art
lol, a recurring theme of "SEEM" and your skewed perception. so what's going on here? it was bad for me to assume you dislike anything 'avant-garde' even tho it was a correct assumption, with few exceptions?

>>387572648
MGS4 = Best Boss Fights, Best gameplay mechanics; but weak level design and not enough gameplay. Cutscenes drag on too long.

MGS3 = best atmosphere and tone. Strong balance of gameplay and story, strong balance of drama and humor. Second best set of boss fights in the series. A lot of memorable moments that resonate with players. Plot is relatively simple and easy to follow. But level design is weak, menu shit is ass, survival is undercooked.

MGS1 = memorable boss fights and tightest pacing in the series. Only significant cons are due to being an early 3d game.

MGS2 = weak boss fights, weak story moments, mixed bag of level design. Lots of really good and nifty secrets. Lots of polish. Very interesting and compelling final third of the game. Cliffhanger ending.

MGS:PW = weakest gameplay mechanics, but strong story and strong pacing. Introduces Motherbase. Level design and boss fights both suck. Very good atmosphere however. Strong ending. Works well as a "missing link" for the series.

MGSV = Amazing gameplay mechanics and surprisingly solid level design that are undermined by subpar AI and overpowered tools at the player's disposal. The story is weak and sparse throughout, and atmosphere is hit or miss. Tone is inconsistent and bland. Lack of memorable setpiece moments or big infiltrations that could have made this entry legendary. Lack of characters to actually care about. Failure to capitalize on both the sense of loss and the revenge theme, despite both being the cornerstone of the story. Still my most played MGS game because the mechanics are so solid.

>>387574038
what's this from? i want to watch it

>>387597185
>'fringe' is usually a derogatory term for something niche, inacessible
>many works that were considered avant garde at the time, such as Picasso's, are now considered modern and very commonly studied
yes, the fringe can become mainstream. not that it will. fringe just means on the edge, and avant garde is definitely the fringe. they push boundaries of convention. calling something "fringe" is only derogatory if the intent of the work was to obey convention. and by trying to break convention, avant-garde art is inherently more inaccessible and niche than something that tries to stick with the conventions. fringe is a perfectly acceptable way to describe avant-garde art, you're just being a contrarian faggot.
>it was bad for me to assume you dislike anything 'avant-garde' even tho it was a correct assumption, with few exceptions?
it was, because at the time of your initial assumption all I had said was "the statement 'there is no good and bad art' is a stupid statement." this all goes back to you defending the artistic merits of mgs2, which i agree are there, and you based the assumption off of your presumption that i think mgs2 is devoid of merit.
>ok now type that again but pretend that you finished high school so non-autists can decipher it
subjective qualities are still qualities that apply and affect reality. when i call something "good" and "bad," it is a subjective descriptor, but it is also something agreed upon by the collective. we talk about morality in much the same way. applying your reasoning about art to morality we get "there are no moral or immoral actions, just actions." which is not how most people would talk about morality, or the consequences of people's views of morality. we talk about what is moral and immoral, and what we think is good and bad, so that the group decide how to continue progressing. anyways, i don't know why i need to tell you this, you already conceded that there is bad art (your example of trump's friend)

>>387572707
>MGS2 fucked canon
>2 family computer games that just rip off american action movies, with the same basic plot and villain
>1 game on PS1 that borrows heavily from the 2nd family computer game
>somehow the next game screws up the golden canon that is MGS storyline

>>387572707
>muh canon
That was the whole point, you fucking retard. I swear, you brainlets are the worst.

>>387597208
>MGS:PW
>strong story
>good 'atmosphere'
>muh missing link in the big boss saga.....
im going to erase this meme off the face of the earth

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>>387599768
>it was, because at the time of your initial assumption
lmao dude. I was right

>yes, the fringe can become mainstream. not that it will.
avant garde is anything new that doesn't wallow in the recognition and commercialism of current fashion, but very often it is intended to find recognition and commercialism of its own. Look at how commercial Andy Warhol was, which was very intentional, given his background. How can that be called 'fringe'?

>subjective qualities are still qualities that apply and affect reality
kek. no. OBJECTIVE describes reality, such as "you have 5 dollars". if you are for some reason a moralfag and need approval from a 'community' to be validated, that's up to you. There are no moral or immoral actions, just actions, and this is objectively true, since people have different moral values, and no amount of social pressure from either left-wing or right-wing groups or government propaganda will change my conditioning or my arsenal of possible actions, especially since even moralfag community values change throughout time and community

>you already conceded that there is bad art
in my example I listed something that I did not even objectively consider to be art, thus 'bad art', however in that very example I presented counter-arguments

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>its another "/v/ learned the word objective for the first time again" episode

>>387580096
>If you're talking about Raiden throwing away his at the end of the game, yes, it's 100% unambiguously symbolic

nice headcannon

>>387601063
the brainlet meme is real life

>>387572763
It really shouldn't have answered those questions because the game is literally about finding it out for yourself
also, mgs4 is shit

>>387580801
>>solid
>>snake
>>simulation
>>he didn't play the game

you really think I am going to believe the fucking AI? Hell, fucking, no.

>>387601440
>system for societal sanity

>>387572707
At least 2 was interesting. 4 was just pants on head retarded
>>387572763
No one ever said that it had to answer everything. Some things would've been even better left unexplained. And there was NO REASON for BB to show up at the end. That's all 4s fuck up alone.

>>387601302
>It really shouldn't have answered those questions
too bad it did.

>because the game is literally about finding it out for yourself
bullshit.

>>387601684
>bullshit
play the fucking game buddy

>>387601684
b r a i n l e t

>>387601507
>system for societal sanity

a term the AI said meaning it has fuck all importance.

>>387601734
I beat MGS2.

A disappointing sequel, Big Shell was a bitch to get around, the story went off the rails at Arsenal Gear, none of the bosses were good, and Raiden was an unbearable piece of shit.

>>387601684
I refuse to believe this anon is serious. You must be trolling. Do brainlets of this level really exist?

>>387601893
Are you that retard that skipped all of the dialogue and scenes with the AI because you thought it wasn't important?

>>387572648
Thats not snake eater

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>>387601893
H I D E O ' D

I

D

E

O

'

D

>>387601991
>Are you that retard that skipped all of the dialogue and scenes with the AI because you thought it wasn't important?

I didn't skip all of the AI. Just the big rant at the end because I dismissed it as "oh great, more of this shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8j9I90ueM"

>>387602014
MGS3 is a mechanically good game with a good spy fiction story. MGS2 is a masterpiece.

>>387572648
it's not just the best game in the series, it's the best game ever made

>>387600869
>lmao dude. I was right
not entirely right, and only by chance based off of wrong assumptions.
>avant garde is anything new that doesn't wallow in the recognition and commercialism of current fashion, but very often it is intended to find recognition and commercialism of its own.
so it seeks to expand fringe markets? you try so hard to argue away the word "fringe," but I'm not sure why. it's entirely acceptable. do you have a vendetta against that word or something?
>Look at how commercial Andy Warhol was, which was very intentional, given his background. How can that be called 'fringe'?
I never called warhol fringe. Pop-art was popularized much in response to non-objective modern abstract paintings, like pollock's work. It was actually a return to convention, which is why it caught on so quickly. it wasn't the same as art before the turn of the century, sure, but it was a lot more "normal" than what had become popular among snooty curators
>kek no.
yes. when we apply subjective characteristics to things it tempers our behaviour. if i think a painting is good, i will hang it up. that is an effect on reality that my sense of subjectivity has made.
>even moralfag community values change throughout time and community
a point i made. we talk about what is good and bad, moral and immoral, so that we can continue to live together without tearing each other to pieces. i realize that OBJECTIVELY there are only actions, that morality is applied after the fact. i mentioned that. did the point go over your head, though? through our SUBJECTIVE sense of being we communicate the best course of action. art is art, but you there is still PURPOSE to calling things good art and bad art, and acts as moral or immoral actions.

>OBJECTIVE describes reality, such as "you have 5 dollars"
>I listed something that I did not even objectively consider to be art
so why are you the one gets to objectively decide what is and is not art? all i see is a confused contrarian faggot.

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It was a post-modern masterpiece.

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MGS2 is a masterp-
>Liquid Ocelot
>boring corridors everywhere
>backtracking
>underwater escort mission

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>>387602803
>not entirely right, and only by chance based off of wrong assumptions.
such arrogance. you don't know how I arrived at my correct conclusions and now blame my methodology

>do you have a vendetta against that word or something?
I think it's an exaggeration

>warhol
just wrong, my dude. Warhol's work is postmodern as fuck, it's not just "pop art". Pop art was around since the 40's and Warhol took it and put a spin on it as social commentary on society and commercialism and advertizing and mass production. The art is partly in the use of the art style, not the art style itself.

>so that we can continue to live together without tearing each other to pieces
> through our SUBJECTIVE sense of being we communicate the best course of action.
I don't respond to moral convention. I act in ways that are 'good' for me, not for the collective to pat me on the back. Not everyone "feels bad" for following a course of action that is exclusively benefitial to that person and potentially detrimental to others.

>so why are you the one gets to objectively decide what is and is not art?
I'm not.

>>387603078
you're not a brainl-

>>387603949
>pic related
truly the only way to correctly say "MGS 3 is the best"

>>387572648
Correct, and one of the top 5 games of all time.

>>387603949
>you don't know how I arrived at my correct conclusions and now blame my methodology
either you are somehow playing 11-d chess and arrived at that conclusion from a refuting of your "art is art, not good or bad" statement, or you arrived at it from false assumptions. nor is ACTUALLY that hard, or a big leap, to guess that any individual picked from a crowd does not like the majority of the art that is not conventional. gee i wonder why?
>I think it's an exaggeration
maybe based off of SKEWED PERCEPTIONS? because fringe really isn't as bad or misleading as you seem to think it is, and you are pushing quite hard against it.
>Pop art was around since the 40's and Warhol took it and put a spin on it as social commentary on society and commercialism and advertizing and mass production.
it had this spin since the 40s. while warhol was probably among the most famous and popular pop artists, he didn't invent or even reinvent the genre. pop-art was always at the forefront of postmodern art, after dada.
>I don't respond to moral convention. I act in ways that are 'good' for me, not for the collective to pat me on the back.
sure, but you also have to act in a way that doesn't anger the collective enough that they see you as the other and tear you to pieces. which is still a response to moral convention.

>>387572648
It's great and all but I still think the first one is better.
Every bosses, Meryl codec, playing Solid Snake...
Plus, the "it's Shadow Moses all over again lol" plot was a lamo excuse for using same situations twice.

>>387606191
b-but you don't understand, it's so meta

>>387606191
>plot was a lamo excuse for using same situations twice

Thrice, given that MGS1 was already a remake of MG2.

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>>387605786
>it had this spin since the 40s
the art style was originally used for low-brow drawings, usually comic books or advertizing. it wasn't a 'statement', it looked like that because of functionality and a natural progression of even earlier poster drawings. It was only after the artstyle was so prominent that it became blasé did people start drawing attention to it in a satiric way, so it's very unfair to say
>pop-art was always at the forefront of postmodern art
when it's a style so commonly emulated even today in non-postmodern ways but rather to evoke a sense of style from the time period

>you also have to act in a way that doesn't anger the collective enough that they see you as the other and tear you to pieces
case by case. I don't have social anxieties so I'm not afraid of being confident, though I also know the price of arrogantly ignoring discretion. I don't announce 'I'm a bad person' because I don't think I am one.

>>387607929
>It was only after the artstyle was so prominent that it became blasé did people start drawing attention to it in a satiric way, so it's very unfair to say
pop art borrowed from advertisements and comics, it wasn't pop art when it was comics and ads. it took low-brow media and elevated the styles to art. it was the readymade of commercial stylization.
>when it's a style so commonly emulated even today in non-postmodern ways but rather to evoke a sense of style from the time period
ok now type that again but pretend that you finished high school so non-autists can decipher it

>i don't respond to moral convention because i don't work for praise
>morality is not about people liking you, it's about not being torn apart by others for moral transgressions. you still respond to the conventions of morality
>n-no! only sometimes.. maybe... but i'm a big guy! i don't need morality! but i'm not a bad guy... not that i believe in any sort of moral compass that would be able to describe people as good or bad..
idiot.

playing through now for the first time since it came out and shits crazy how on target some of their points are. Cant believe it was made 16 years ago.

>>387572648
2 supposed to be the last metal gear game
3 was made for Kojimbo to redeem himself
4 was made because fans asking for sequel and closure to the metal gear saga
Peace Walker was made because his son loves monster hunter
V were made because Konami wanted to

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>>387608828
>it wasn't pop art when it was comics and ads
I call it pop art usually, there's what the argument stems from

fuck your readymade reply my nigga I'm talking about pop art (sorry, NOT POP ART, the actual artstyle used in ads and comics at the time which has a very prominent look and widespread use in modern and postmodern work but no name :^) that's used in conjunction with art deco whenever somebody wants to make something like a period piece movie of the 1950's, or since this is /v/, FALLOUT

>n-no! only sometimes.. maybe... but i'm a big guy!
kek

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>>387609943
are you drunk or did your IQ take a sudden nose dive or what?

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>>387610298
>not saying "your post is bad art"
my posts are avant garde

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>>387610823
i dont, how do you say, objectively consider it to be art.

>>387591698
>enemies can spot you from miles away
No, they can't.

And it's still more than possible to succeed without the radar; just use first-person view and things like corner peeking to scout out ahead.

>>387575029
based

>>387576686
Make him run into claymores and shoot him while he's swimming

>>387572648
>tanker corridors
>repetitive, symmetrical big shell layout
>muh free will and censorship, whoa deep but it doesn't make up for the rest of the game
1>3>2, the rest are irrelevant

>>387614328
>repetitive
All the rooms are different in terms of structure and enemy placement, even the connecting bridges vary. They all keep the same general color scheme, but that's a rather superficial definition of "repetitive."