>Shit story >Low enemy variety >Piss easy bosses >Unmemorable

this is a correct analysis but people will disagree

>>387440246
Pretty much.
Nobody was complimenting the story though, it's widely accepted it does it's job but that's about it.

>>387440480
I'm just baffled by the praise the game got. Literally nobody will remember it in the years to come.

>>387440569
>Baffled by a game set in the Golden Era Japanese history is given praise.
The game is pretty good, but what drew everybody that wasn't there for an Onimusha fix was there for Darksouls in Japan.
The premise alone would be enough for many to give praise to the game.

Not gonna lie though, the game has the best representation of that Oda guy.

>>387440246
Disagree about the missions becoming boring before you finished them. I don't see the problem with them being used in side missions either.
As for bosses some are fairly decent unless you cheese them.

Enemy variety and diablo loot is what brings the game down.

>>387440863
The only bosses I've had any kind of trouble with so far have been Onryoki and Umi-Bozo, and I've just beaten White Tiger. I like the visual designs for most of them but they're just not interesting fights.

>>387440246
Nioh is just a watered down NG with loot/stats tacked on to appeal to Souls shitters

itt: butt blasted pc cucks

>>387440569
people got excited because the demo made the game seem great but they literally used all the enemy types in the demo levels. there was no progression in the game, just more of the same

>>387440569
Because it's weeb Dark Souls, the two things /v/ loves the most.

>>387441786
>Because it's weeb Dark Souls, the two things /v/ loves the most.
I should love this shit as well. I dig weeb shit and Dark Souls.

>>387441531
A lot of people compare NG to Nioh but I don't see it. NG had a combo system similar to fighting games, Nioh has two attack buttons with no directional inputs. If anything It's a faster dark souls with more indepth combos.

But saying this game is like NG? fuck no. This game doesnt even have jumping or any real launchers.

>>387440246
Yeah, it's still my GOTY though. Good combat can carry anything.

Yup i was so hyped for the game but i dropped after i beat umi buzo mostly because of your last point

>>387441998
This.
The closest the game gets to NG is using Tonfa or Odachi for stance-dance.

>>387442160
Fair enough, it's each to their own. I'm still enjoying playing the game, but I'm just pretty disappointed.

I wish the dlcs had more content. The new difficulties are fun for the new grind but the new regions are really bare bones. The season pass doesn't have a lot of content unless you like grinding.

>>387442754
I've not even finished the main game so I can't really comment on it.

I'm waiting for the goty version with all dlc

I have 300 hours on the game and I still have fun with it. I would rebuy it for pc if it ever came out. The game has a lot of pay2win aspects with ps+ which is pretty bullshit.

>>387441294
That's interesting. I assume the only reason you had problems with Onryoki was because you didn't know how to play the game well yet. A lot of people tend to have problems with Yuki Onna as well.
You're in for the mid game which has a lot of the easy bosses, there are a couple of challenging ones like Ishida that awaits you if you don't rely too much on omnyo spells.
The first DLC also has a bunch of bosses that are borderline bullshit.

But yeah, with shit like omnyo spells that decrease their defence, sloth, lightening status, second chance and living weapon you can basically cheese everything without any dedicated build.

>>387440246
I got up to the crow man and stopped playing a long time ago, I think I ruined the game for myself with lmao2kat + spear. Is there cool shit after that guy? How are the DLCs? Are the new weapons any fun?

>>387443387
Pretty much. I was only a few hours in and I was still figuring out hitboxes, movement speed, etc. I destroyed Yuki Onna on one attempt with minimal effort though.
I look forward to those later bosses. I've not delved into omnyo spells too much so hopefully the game will push back a little more.

>>387443502
Odachi are great, they are fucking beautiful and their combos become stance-dancing.
Tonfa are pretty cool, but are ultimately outclassed by every other weapon.

>>387443502
I made this post just after beating White Tiger.

>>387443116

P2w, how so? Do you mean gear from revenants?

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>>387440246
>Unmemorable soundtrack
now hol the FUCK UP

>>387443979
No idea what he is talking about, multiplayer just rewards glory, which is pretty useless outside of cosmetics.
Unless he is talking about needing ps+ for co-op.


As far as PvP goes it is p2w, but not because of ps+ but because the high-tier gear are locked behind difficulties only unlocked by DLC, and the matchmaking has no sense of balance.

>>387443979
You can only get a lot of umbracite from doing random encounters. Umbracite is incredibly useful for tempering equipment to get the correct stats you want. It's pretty much required for endgame. There's some later missions in the game that will give umbracite on completion but it's only a one time thing. Random encounters give you a guaranteed umbracite for finishing + a chance for every monster to drop some as well.

Playing online also gives you insane amounts of glory which you can use to spend on all sorts of useful things. Also there's no level cap at all for random encounters so you can summon a level 500 guy to carry you through an entire mission within minutes.

>>387444272
They added the new PVP mode that remedies that I believe except for access to the new weapon types. I haven't tried that mode out so I could be wrong though.

>>387443502
>How are the DLCs?
Depends what you are looking for. They add a new weapon type and difficulty each, so if that sounds interesting check them out.
If you're just interested in the new missions you might get disappointed, both of them are around 3 hours including all side missions.

I really wanted to like this game due to how much it reminded me of Onimusha, but the main thing I really disliked was the weapon loot system. I really didn't enjoy constantly having to swap and manage such a large collection of weapons at any given time. The bad enemy variety was a pain, too.

Maybe they'll fix some of the issues in an inevitable sequel, but I ain't touching it if it still has a loot system.

>>387440246
it's still better than bloodborne

>>387444835
Not like you have to even think about the loot system in standard NG, just sort by highest level and equip that and maybe check its weight type if you want to keep your mobility in check.

My favorite part of Nioh was collecting kodamas and guardian spirits

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>>387444910

>all untrue shit made up by angry p.cuck soulsniggers
Get over it already. Get a grip on reality, it sold as much as Bloodborne ie soulsfag's crown jewel.

It's easy to edit your save and play online. I've ran into a few people doing impossible damage.

>>387447207
>complains about pc players dissing nioh
>disses bb in return
???

>>387444835
Why is this such a common retarded complaint? Have you never fucking played a game like Diablo before? You don't EVER need to sort through the low rarity shit you're picking up. You press one button to dismantle or sell it all after you run a few missions. If something is interesting or worth looking at, you'll know it because it'll be at the top of your damn list

>>387444910
Not even a huge Bloodborne fan and I disagree.

>>387447408
Where did I diss BB you dumb fucking faggot? I said it sold as much as BB despite being the FIRST installment of its IP and the first game anyone has cared about from Team Ninja in a long while.
I wouldn't shit on another excellent PS4 exclusive, because the moral of the story is that Sony ALWAYS WINS

>>387447207
I'm a console peasant though. Also, calling someone a liar isn't a good counter argument.

the problem with random loot is that it takes away from exploration that the game should be offering to potentially find good uniques off the beaten path. it's not like the game had good enough level design to offer decent exploration, but if it did, it would have been fucking sweet. RNG loot is a meme that should never exist for a game like this

>>387447787
The entire game would be better if it just wasn't an rpg. TN doesn't know how to balance their own game, you can kill any boss in 1 hit with stupid as fuck builds.

>>387447654
>m-m-my opinions are important!!!
If you really feel like anything said in the OP is at all an actual argument against the game you're an idiot and should kill yourself

>>387444910
Depends on what you value. BB wins in music, presentation atmosphere etc. But I think Nioh has better combat. That makes them really close to me.

>>387447947
Enemy distribution is a problem though.

>>387447947
I'm still enjoying the game, I just quickly things about it that are detracting from it overall. Look, it seems like you're a big fan of Nioh, so I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked by my post.

>>387447943
>stop letting me have fun and experiment with builds!
>I want to be shoehorned into clunky boring playstyles like muh souls games!
wow, is this the mind of a nugamer?

>>387448092
Sure, a relatively minor flaw. But of course on /v/eddit everything gets blown out of proportion and is called "dogshit" when it's got one or two issues, especially for Sony game.

>>387448115
You mean you just parroted opinions you've heard before, I know. Keep on doing what you feel you need to do to fit in, I won't judge you laddie

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>>387440246
>>387440294
>>387440294


i see not all are drones thanks for reviving my hopes on vee

moth best wifu male

>>387448424
>he agrees with me so he must not be a drone!
The story is fine, enemy variety can be a problem but is alleviated by the combat and some enemies having new moves, the soundtrack is great and the level design is fantastic.

>>387448424
>literally all /v/ drone parrot opinions
>"not all are drones"
>being a trap faggot
>replying to yourself
As expected, bet you're an ironic nuweeb too that loves "le Nep and Little witch academia"

>>387448382
>all these buzzwords
>all this console fanboyism
Take a chill pill bro. The only person calling the game dogshit here is you.

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I'd recommend buying it on sale some time in the future. It's mediocre but can be fun. Also, waifus.

>>387448697
Enemies get new moves in Way of the Wise, the 4th time you play through the game.
Otherwise, the big skellies you battle in Isle of Demons and Demon King Revealed play exactly the same.

>>387447410
This is coming from the same game where people cried and whined about how impossible the game was prerelease while ignoring 80% of the mechanics, causing the game to be chopped up and simplified in an attempt to appease them. Not many people are capable of just thinking about their options.
>>387447787
Loot does the opposite, it ensures that any hidden items you find will always be relevant because of how many different things they can offer you and the number of ways you can sell or trade the loot. Also the first time round, items are set anyway. The idea that this game has bad level design is the real meme and I really want to know where it came from because it gets parroted nonstop.
>>387447943
It used to be much better balanced. People bitched about it because they can't handle a balanced game. The RPG aspect is a big part of the game, removing it would be just as bad an idea as removing anything else.

>>387447943
>you can kill any boss in 1 hit with stupid as fuck builds
you say that like it's a bad thing

>>387449002
They get them long before that, though it's mainly the oni that have them. Waiting until Way of the Wise to add new moves is stupid though especially considering what was removed already, though at least it's in there.

>>387449226
>Also the first time round, items are set anyway.
I don't know who told you this but that is not true. Each spot has a pool of items that can appear. You can pick up the Yasakani Magatama the first time you play through the bath house or it can be your 10th time.

>>387448382
Parroting opinions? The only complaint I heard prior to buying the game was that enemy variety runs low later on. You seem really upset about people not gushing over every aspect of the game.

>>387449508
Did they change that in 1.16? I haven't taken the last patch yet, but before that I could still run circles around onis in WotD without them ever sitting on me.

Also I used the skellies as an example since they got a new spin2win move.

>>387449508
I think the moves might have just been added, regardless of difficulty

>>387449650
I played through the game. In main missions they're set. Maybe not all of them are but there are definitely places that have the same items.
>>387449885
I was mainly referring to the slam and how the later variants get different projectiles. I haven't been spun on by a skelly so I don't know if they're restricted to Wise or not.

>>387450130
Aside from key items needed for the missions, Kagatsuchi's magatamas and the different locks I don't think any of the loot is set.

>>387440246
I don't like the loot drop system, I prefer when bosses drop unique loot. Being able to get any set anywhere isn't satisfying.

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>started way of the demon
>suddenly there's black phantoms from souls games

>>387450432
I just like the constant feeling of progression. I think there's something satisfying about constantly seeing your numbers increase.

>>387450349
Much of it is, some might not be but it just randomizes entirely when replaying the level. Some obvious examples are the locks and most things on Isle of Demons.
>>387450432
You get more new and unique equipment the further you go through the game though. Many types of equipment aren't available until later regions.

>>387450556
WotW is even worse

The number of buffs they get double and they're pretty brutal. The most annoying removes all of your status enhancements if you get hit.

>>387450556
Surely you mean elites from Diablo games, right?

>>387450813
they really, really took a lot from diablo's formula

It's arguably more diablo than it is souls.

>>387450942
Which is exactly what it was marketed as

>>387451098
wheres the fun end game content?

>>387450942
Since they aren't going back on how the game used to be for whatever reason, their only option now is to focus much more on the loot and power creep aspect. It works to an extent but originally the game was in perfect balance and far better for it.

>>387451524
I played the alpha and I really don't see what you're talking about.

The game would have been trash if weapons had the kind of durability they had in the alpha, for example.

>>387451098
the only thing the game is missing are unique items. The closest thing I can think of are some helmets and accessories that would fall under that category. Everything is either Base item or set item, there's no really fantastic item drops that are widely different from the rest.

>>387451505
At the endgame

>>387451692
would have been nice to see lots of little sets that only have a few pieces too

like maybe just kote and a weapon with an interesting bonus, that kind of thing

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>liked the demo because most enemies were humans
>get the full game
>enemies are mostly undead or demons

>>387452040
nothing wrong with fighting yokai

>>387451639
There were so many different changes and factors made that comparing the Alpha and the final release is like night and day. To run off a few examples, healing was shortened by half and the effect doubled so that you can essentially heal four times the amount you used to be able to in the same length of time. To compensate for that and other even bigger changes like back damage nerfs, ki stagger being nerfed and removed from mashing and circlestrafe lock on they turned up the damage on a lot of attacks no matter how out of place it may seem. This made it so fights were hard to escape and required more strategy as it was easier to be hit for less but hits added up, compared to now where you just run around freely and swing, and if you get hit then either you died or you heal and go back in. There's also how broken Ninjutsu and Onmyo are, partly because they weren't adjusted at all when they were already strong before, and offering loot was much more useful as well.
The durability system in the Alpha was absolutely fine and an example of people whining over something they didn't understand while ignoring most mechanics in the rest of the game. We even knew back then there would be a shop, and the description on wooden weapons hints that they could have been a fallback if somehow necessary.

>>387444910
Absolutely wrong.

>>387452850
>The durability system in the Alpha was absolutely fine
durability is never fine, especially in arpg

>>387452850
I beat all the alphas and I don't think the changes were that huge. most of what you listed is the type of thing that punishes shitty players but doesn't really affect good players. By the end of the first alpha I never ran out of stamina or got hit in the back.

>>387452850
>actually defending weapon durability

>>387440246
I was about to contest you but everything you said is correct. The reason why I played it for 300 hours is precisely due to its combat and loot. I don't think the levels are bad at all though. The mission design is more in the vein on Tenchu rather than Dark Souls so it's more of a case of the game being different rather than bad.

>>387442292
Dual Katana & KusariGama were lifted directly from Ninja Gaiden. Nioh's combat is much slower due to the stamina system and lack of special moves. Although Nioh does start to play a bit more similar to NG depending on the moves you unlock. I main Axe, but I use a katana or spear as back up due to the Ninja Gaiden style moves where you're jumping in the air to attack.

>>387453412
I like the idea of each level having a new gimmick, but after spending a while in each specific environment I get tired of them.
And yeah, the combat and looting keeps me gripped. I've stayed up later than I should the last few nights because I can't pull myself a way from playing despite its flaws.

shame to see it so unpopular on here, i'm really enjoying it myself, enemy variety is a bit null and the centipede silver mine level was boring as shit.

Beat Umi-Bozu around twenty mins ago, some of the monster girls are kinda cute like the harpy vampire and rag ghost girl.

What kinds fights come next?

why axe feels so fucking shitty?
decided to do a run with it after odachi and it feels like a little more burst damage is really not a good trade for range and good moveset

>>387453810
>shame to see it so unpopular on here, i'm really enjoying it myself
You'll understand why after a few more missions.

>>387453106
Oh you're just biased and not even giving any kind of halfway intelligent reasoning, ok.
>>387453147
The changes really were that huge and numerous to boot, and have an active effect on determining the flow and priorities of combat. Do you think people would still be mindlessly circlestrafing everything if they were actually punished for it? The whole point of a game's design is to make players improve at dealing with the mechanics to overcome further challenges and said designs are always there no matter how much you do improve, saying that it shouldn't be there because it only punishes the people that haven't learned to deal with it yet is just plain stupid as that's entirely the point, and I sincerely hope I don't have to post it's logical conclusion for you to actually see how silly it is. If those mechanics weren't there then there would be no reason to care or improve, and surprise surprise in the finished product that's exactly the case.
>>387453231
Oh you're just biased and not even giving any kind of halfway intelligent reasoning, ok.

>>387453810
I'm not going to spoil shit. Keep playing.

Also, Tonfas as FUCKING AMAZING. Goddamn, they answered our prayers for a fist-type melee weapon with flying colors.

>>387453810
The bosses as well as the combat depth certainly make up for the enemy variety part. Also the mine level was cool.

>>387453846
Why would you do an Axe run after Odachi? Odachi is, flat out, a better heavy weapon than Axes/Hammers. They're not as slow, their moveset dynamics and options are better, and the damage is just as high (while being able to combo far easier with less stamina drain).

>>387444354
You don't need that extra 5% of stats you might think you do for end game. There are enough completely broken things as it is, 500 extra damage isn't going to make or break you being a God

>>387453994
I just don't think it's as big of a deal as you make it out to be man. I haven't changed that much about my playstyle since the first alpha.

>>387446671
>>387447530
>>387452973
Better gameplay and combat. It's also a lot lot harder

>>387454251
Same here. The changes are nowhere near as drastic or severe as he's saying, otherwise I would not be able to continue what I've been doing since the early days.

>>387453846
Admittedly I haven't got the DLC, but axes are more than strong enough if you have a handle on them, it's got enough variety in it's moveset to deal with any threat even if it has it's main strengths.

>>387453940
ah fuck dude, dont say that

>>387454037
Are those in the DLC? should i get it now or wait till end game?

Any clue if you can get those giant studded oni-clubs, would love one of them

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>>387454175
Not that anon, but as an axe fan, axe has more damage/ki damage in general. When spec'd right you can get 300k damage lumber chops. I personally find it to be a more interesting weapon, even though I'll admit odachi is definitely better at dealing with multiple enemies.

The enemy variety isn't amazing but it's really no different from bloodbornes and the DLC even add a bunch of enemies as well

>>387454435
Nioh really appeals to some and turns off others. It's my goty but people like the dude you responded to clearly disliked it. Just play it and see how it feels to you.

>>387454162
eh, just not for me i guess, after the level with Nuc and then going into the ancient ruins and then Umi-Bozu's sea temple, Centipede's level just wasnt fun and the bossfight was way to easy after the vampire harpy and such

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>>387454435
IIRC if you buy the DLCs and start the game you straight up have access to the DLC weapons from the get go. But if you already have your file and are interested in DLC, wait until you beat the game. They require that you've completed the main campaign in Way of the Samurai (default difficulty) to access.

But yeah, Tonfas are the shit. I'm running a Tonfa/Spear build and it's nice as fuck. Using the Okatsu skin on top of that makes everything look slick as fuck.

>>387454294
I'm burning through Nioh with very few speed bumps, and while the combat is better, the visual design, enemy design, enemy variety, boss battles and music are not.

>>387454571
more people should really point this out

How could I forget such classics as beastman with a pitchfork or beastman with a torch and shield? Or tallman with a stake. Or bird?

>>387454439
That's a best case scenario with the Axe. In the overwhelming majority of situations, you're better off with the Odachi. As you said, it's better against multiple opponents + it combos much better. I do agree that Axes do better Ki damage, though.

>>387454639
probably my goty as well at this stage, i went in expecting a souls clone but got something different, which is all good

>>387454571
nah dude, bloodborne had an absolute fuck ton of enemies, more the DS for sure

>>387448382
>stop letting me have fun and experiment with builds!
>I want to be shoehorned into clunky boring playstyles like muh souls games!
>wow, is this the mind of a nugamer?

That's not what he's saying at all. He's saying that Nioh would've been better off as a proper action game like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden, both of which had some minor rpg elements but overall both games were more centralized around your skill rather than your gear builds.

I think I was the first one around here to point out how similar Nioh is to Ninja Gaiden 3 in terms of shitty balancing. In NG3 you just had to deal with it or turn it off because the game sucks. In Nioh you can make a kinda shitty game, less shitty either through the delibitation route of magic & ninjutsu or a broke ass one hit kill Axe build.

>>387448905
Fuku is best slut. She's the reason I kept the game for so long until DLC2 came out and made me realize where Nioh is heading towards gameplay wise. (Moar fucking grinding.) Storywise it seems to be getting better since Yodo should've been in the main game to begin with. Makes me wonder if they'll actually bother to do anything with Fuku since Fuku & Ginchiyo were the only two women who actually did anything substantial in real life but don't really do much in-game. Ginchiyo should actually be dead by the time Nioh ends since she died young. Fuku Saito rose up to be some high ranked politician and shit with close ties to the Akechi although Nioh did hint at that since she usually hangs out with that bald dude who is Akechi Mitsuhide in disquise.

>>387454989
>Fuku is best slut.
>Fuku
>slut

This needs to stop.

>>387453994
Weapon durability adds nothing to the game.
It's bad enough in games like BotW, but this is a game were getting good rolls for your weapons can be incredibly time consuming. If you can't see how that is inherently counterproductive to the loot system they were going for I don't know what to tell you.

>>387454639
Nah I don't dislike it. I played through everything including all the NG+ modes, it just has a lot of flaws and enemy variety is disappointing. I expected much more from the game after playing beta.

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>>387454251
You have, you just haven't noticed it because it doesn't strictly affect the controls themselves but the larger flow of the game and combat. That's not even all the changes I posted either, but any one of them has a big impact, it's just something you need to actually look at from a broader perspective if you've just been playing without thinking about it. Circlestrafing makes movement inherently much safer than it was ever meant to be.
>>387454338
It's not like the entire combat system itself was rewritten, the reason the finished game is as good as it is despite all the terrible unfocused changing is because the core of it was so great to begin with, but it should be really obvious how your priorities switch with these changes, even if you're still functionally able to do similar things. Try comparing how you play Souls and Nioh, as an example. There's also how they gutted the enemy placements too though.

>>387454837
>in the overwhelming majority of situations
I wouldn't say that. Axe isn't that niche. It's a solid weapon just like odachi.

I might be more inclined to use odachi if it had a better skill tree instead of mostly all stance changers at the end of your combo.

tome best girl

>>387454694
aright, thanks for the info man

>>387454764
Level design isn't any worse, it has more variety in color and it's environment as well, and 60fps. Yes the music isn't as good and it's not as visually impressive but at least the gameplay isn't just pressing R1 forever

>>387454957
Enemies that are different only in looks though, 80% of the enemies in BB have the same AI and patterns. superficial variety doesn't mean much

>>387440246
I can agree to all this and I liked Nioh. Another thing that bothered me was the lack of weapon variety and there was no need to ever make another character.

>>387455175
Well, most of the Axe/Hammer skills are kind of garbage so I don't mind the Odachis trading flashy stuff for practicality. Chaining low stance into high stance without manual stance switching is awesome, it lets you exploit opening much easier than with the Axe/Hammer.

>>387455169
I just block a lot and blocking wasn't really changed at all. There was a lot of opportunity here for this guy to dodge left or right. You don't always have to go backwards.

>>387455491
its still more then what i've gotten with Nioh so far

i do still like both games mind

>>387455057
Weapons didn't disappear when broken, if that's what you're implying. They only got weaker, and it worked perfectly fine alongside the loot system since the weaker weapons could be offered to get whetstones if you were hurting for them somehow for example. Weapon durability adds a hell of a lot to a game, including this one where it added real motivation to use both equipped weapons, equipment variance, potential enemy and strategy variance, incentive to use items and abilities along with your main combat skills, balance for certain equipment or stances (like low stance), more depth to familiarity with the two working as opposites, and it fit thematically as well. I'm probably forgetting some. But you think BotW would be fine if they just pulled durability out of that too. I haven't even played the game but it's obviously there to encourage the survival adventure aspect as well as using your other abilities. If you can't see how ripping a mechanic out of a game when it's been developed the whole way through with it in mind might be detrimental to the finished product then I don't know what to tell you.

>>387455491
I think it does, I think bloodborne is a bad example though since most of the enemies are just reskins with hair on them. Even if the enemies are the same in moves, it's less tiring to fight them over and over if they look different.

>>387455542
>most of the Axe/Hammer skills are kind of garbage
not really, and the axe kit has been steadily buffed over the last 2 DLCs more than any other weapon


I'm not a fan of the auto-stance change stuff at all. It's especially disappointing that you can't just keep doing it until you run out of ki. I feel I do better just manually stance changing. But whatever, we clearly disagree with eachother and that's fine.

Only thing I don't like fighting over and over are the faggot fucking wheels. Also hate the weird guys with the pickaxes. But fighting the other stuff is satisfying. Killing humans is also great because of the gore

>>387446612
So did I. Collectathon spin-off when?

>>387443387
Heavy armor/Spear/earth elemental focus build with nothing in ninjutsu or onmyo, the centipede guy was an awesome boss bogged down by poor matchup and having it neccessary to have Level: 200 gear for everything. Barely scratching him while getting literally oneshotted was awful, but improved once I was on equal grounds. Date was surprisingly piss easy, killed him first try, but the bitch afterwards I can agree was true bullshit. I hope the next DLCs balance it out better

>>387454439
Odachi is the best crit living weapon build choice which by extension makes it the best weapon in general.
The problem with lumber chop is that it feels like a shittier iai with no forward movement and awful range, and honestly high damage doesn't really save it, for the time it takes to make a single chop i can pull a full moonlit snow which actually moves you forward, has like twice as much range and reach and can be safely cancelled before the final hits.

I'm not really against the axes, they do have good moves (low stance triangle charge that sends a shockwave is a safe and fairly hard-hitting option for virtually any situation) and i think it has better armour sets to support it, but odachi is clearly a better weapon moveset-wise.

>>387455837
Movement being much safer makes blocking much safer in turn because you can use your Ki with blocking much more and be less concerned with how you'll retreat or be in a safe position to recover Ki. Blocking would also be much more important before if you were trying to make an opening to heal or escape. Those backsteps were for the Dodge Pulse and attack rather than to dodge anything. Even back then low stance was pretty good and having Dodge Pulse was silly, but at least having durability meant you couldn't just spend your whole time in it.

>>387456637
Why not just do a standard ki pulse? I dunno this gameplay just looks really mediocre and doesn't really make your point very well.

How do I make a good odachi build?

>>387455947
>Weapon durability adds a hell of a lot to a game, including this one where it added real motivation to use both equipped weapons,
It absolutely does not. It only encourages you to save your best weapons for bosses you truly struggle with.
>equipment variance
There are 5 weapon classes in the base game, and that already felt lacking. Making that "variance" more transparent is hardly a good thing. Besides there are already reasons to use other weapon types, like getting skill points through proficiency.
>potential enemy variance
If this is a problem then create more enemies
> a hell of a lot to a game, including this one where it added real motivation to use both equipped weapons, equipment variance, potential enemy and strategy variance,
Nioh already does this very well. Ninjutsu and Omnyo is something most people will learn to use and appreciate on their own. Hell, people are constantly demanding another shortcut tab so they can customize more.
>balance for certain equipment
This is absolutely not a problem at all.

DaS2 had a similar durability mechanic and it definitely made the game worse.

I didn't even know thhe second DLC came out, how is it and how fun are the tonfas?

>>387456885
dlc is good, tonfas are really fun.

>>387455464
I didn't say the level design is worse.

>>387456975
I know I was just throwing it out there.

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No matter what it turns out to be, The Mark of the Conqueror is significant.

Before I say why I need to divide the Souls community into two general groups - Conquerors and Conquered - and quickly define both.

Both have basically been around since Demon's Souls, but the very nature of the Conquered demands that the Conquerors come first. Why? Because Conquers beat the path and light the way. Afterward, like mold or a rot, the Conquered seep into the community, ever at the heels of the Conquerors.

How is that? Either by a lack of information upon release or due to a self-imposed restriction, the Conqueror goes in blind. Conquerors embrace the challenge From Software has extended with each release in their Souls/Bloodborne Series while the Conquered abhor it. While Conquerors scratched and clawed their way through levels and boss fights, the Conquered poured over FAQs, Strategy Guides, Wiki Articles, Google Search Results, Let's Plays and How to Videos.

Therefore the Conquered subsist by virtue of the illumination spread over From's games by the Conquerors, entirely dependent on it. Overtime they've let themselves forget this, fancying themselves old hands as they bring their borrowed knowledge and tactics to bear on each successive release.

And then here comes f***ing Nioh, reminding the Conquered who they really are. And with little to no documentation in sight they hide behind s***posts so they can cling to that "gud" status they worked so hard to attain. Eventually they'll be back. Once the Conquerors have shown the way, that is.

And that's why The Mark of the Conqueror is significant. No matter how superficial, uselessly cosmetic or quickly outclassed it is, it still says I'm not >>387440569

No, I'm a Conqueror.

ONLY STRONG CONQUERORS MAY REPLY TO THIS POST

>>387455947
>including this one where it added real motivation to use both equipped weapons
there's already more than enough motivation to use both weapons, especially on weapon setups like kusari/1kat that can do a black vines > foot sweep > flash attack > final blow
if anything, durability would remove incentive for such combos because you will be trying to save your weapons for the best moment instead of using them
durability is a garbage mechanic that penalizes you for using your weapon, it belongs at best to resource management-heavy dungeon crawlers and even there its benefits are questionable

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>>387444910
Hahahaha

>>387457324
I remember this pasta.

>>387457324

osashiburi

>>387456723
Because dodging has a different attack that does more damage while staying relatively safe and mobile as well as being fun, since this was when it was going down I wanted to have some fun with it. Why you bein rude when you don't have much understanding of the basics in the game? Back then, dodges also allowed you to move quickly without turning and exposing your back. The webms there mainly for fun and showing some changes at a glance but you can see how even in coop I don't just run around and have to choose the right moments to do so since it leaves my back open.

>>387457324
Too bad conqueror means nothing now since they gave it away anyways during the demo

>>387457543
IIRC running left and right didn't expose your back. Pretty sure I can find alpha footage of people playing nearly the same as they do now. I'm not trying to be rude, I just don't agree with you that things were changed that drastically.

>>387456878
>It absolutely does not. It only encourages you to save your best weapons for bosses you truly struggle with.
Not since you have enough whetstones and it doesn't go down quite that fast, plus weapons that are on par aren't so hard to get and facilitates forging and looting anyway.
There are 5 weapon classes in the base game, and that already felt lacking. Making that "variance" more transparent is hardly a good thing. Besides there are already reasons to use other weapon types, like getting skill points through proficiency.
This makes no sense. You say the weapons aren't different enough, which is both true and false because they're designed to have multiple options with some specialties, making them feel unique but never actually necessary to swap between, but then apparently something that would make them a bit more unique is a bad thing? Because you know that it's making them different? Proficiency is all well and good but the skill points run out and all that really encourages is using one at a time for extended periods.
>potential enemy variance
You left out where I said strategy too, on top of making enemies fight differently it makes how you deal with them potentially different too. Saying "just make more enemies who cares" sounds very shortsighted and doesn't mean they can't do something that makes the existing enemies a little deeper as well.
>Nioh already does this very well (because of) Ninjutsu and Onmyo
It doesn't really. Ninjutsu and Onmyo are widely used because they are extremely overpowering, and yet aren't particularly necessary in 90% of fights due to the countless nerfs to the combat system.

And outside of the 60fps glitch DS2's durability was great because for once it actually existed and a game with tons of weapons and equip slots gave a reason to use them. I'm sure you love DS3's "durability" though.

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Who /strongconqueror/ here?

>>387458903
I beat all the demos. I was even a nuemale.

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Besides the obvious, what are the best stats to invest into for a DEX/SKL build? love using the spear

>>387459118
Every weapon scales off of 3 stats. P sure spear is body. Body is also health which can be nice.

>>387459118
body/dex/skl is for a spear/kusarigama kunai build aka one of the funniest builds in the game

>>387459267
>>387459308

So is Stamina useless? I come from Bloodborne/Souls, where people nonstop say its vital for Dex builds

>>387456816
Kaido armour, Enko, bloodstained cleaver with senpai dam bonus, close combat damage, change to attack and pierce guard.

>>387459394
stamina gains in nioh are really not good until you're well into higher difficulties, unless you're with 1kat it's really not worth it, better learn ki pulsing and fluxing
in bb stamina was already nearly useless

>>387457339
No it wouldn't, because such combos would make both weapons last longer, and whetstones fix all equipped weapons at once so it would be in your best interests to make use of both as much as possible. It sounds like you're randomly over exaggerating it's effects or something, as if a combo of a few hits would immediately break the other weapon which just isn't true and smells of bias.
>durability is a garbage mechanic that penalizes you for using your weapon
Well there you go.
>>387457884
It literally does, I do it several times in the webm. Appearances only tell so much though, it took much more awareness of many factors to be able to "play the same" as far as how it looks, perhaps you've forgotten over time or didn't really go too deep. On top of the movement and ki changes there's the elixir speed and effect buffs, enemy health nerfs, enemy weakspot nerfs, enemy placement/behavior removal and changes (not to accommodate the changes but instead to just make them easier and have less everywhere), enemy pursuit and aggro range nerfs, toughness changed to allow minmax abuse and probably more. The lockon camera angle was better too and they even fucked with the goddamn katana sheathe animation by making the Ki Pulse instasheathe animation the only one when it's bloody. Things really were changed drastically.

>>387459394
the stats on the screen all do different things and are attributed to different weapons as primary, secondary, and tertiary scalings. stats do not work at all like they do in souls games really, but they're still very straightforward

>>387450432
Bosses do have rare drops of unique loot

>>387441786
>"It's le weeb vee, LEEE WEEEEB!!!11
>CAAHHM AHHNN!
this is the absolute state of neo-/v/
delete this board right now and you might still have time to save this website.

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Is Purple Loot good?

>>387459682
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPmUPfN33a8

This is footage from the first alpha. This is pretty much how people play it to this day.

>>387459518
Is pierce guard a weapon stat I can reforge for? Never even seen a weapon with it

>>387459992
Purple is the best pre-NG+. Your reward for beating the final boss of the game (Minus the epilogue) is a green weapon of every type. NG+++ expands it to orange.

>>387458702
>Not since you have enough whetstones and it doesn't go down quite that fast, plus weapons that are on par aren't so hard to get and facilitates forging and looting anyway.
If you have enough whetstones that you don't have to worry about saving your weapons then durability becomes completely pointless, like in DaS.
>facilitates forging and looting anyway.
Which there is already a good reason to do, fuck, the whole end game is about creating your perfect weapons through forging and looting.
> but never actually necessary to swap between, but then apparently something that would make them a bit more unique is a bad thing?
Durability doesn't make them any more unique, it just forces you to switch weapons if you run out of whetstones. Everyone changes weapons all the time in NG anyway since their weapon level goes up and wasting forging gold that early in the game is a waste.
> Proficiency is all well and good but the skill points run out
Proficiency is based on damage, I switched weapons once one was at 999999 proficiency and I din't run out during NG.
>You left out where I said strategy too, on top of making enemies fight differently it makes how you deal with them potentially different too.
The point stays the same. The variation is already there, you're just forcing the player to use it. It's exactly as deep. And let's be real for a second, if you have player using 1kat and wouldn't change their weapon type under any circumstance, forcing their weapon to break would very likely just make them pick up their second best 1kat. There isn't a lack of loot in this game exactly.
(1/2)

>>387459682
>whetstones
oh, here we go
there's no need in adding a pointlessly tedious and restrictive mechanic only to circumvent it with a usable, potentially purchasable in good quantities via rare finds things, unless you're literally autistic and love an abundance pointless menu fiddling
durability does not belong to action games and it feels good to know that more and more arpgs are getting rid of it

>>387460005
Yeah I've seen and posted that more times than I can count. Again you're missing all the subtleties of control and decision making that go into making that gameplay. Just because it looks a bit similar doesn't take away from how much more is going on and is necessary to be on top of. Even that video has plenty instances where it shows.
>>387460014
Yes you can get it by reforging.

>>387458702
>>387460115 (You)
>It doesn't really. Ninjutsu and Onmyo are widely used because they are extremely overpowering, and yet aren't particularly necessary in 90% of fights due to the countless nerfs to the combat system
Only a few are that OP really. I wouldn't say any ninjutsu is unless you go for a dedicated build. By the way, having shit like that not be necessary, but still giving the player a strong incentive to use them is the perfect way to do it.
>And outside of the 60fps glitch DS2's durability was great because for once it actually existed and a game with tons of weapons and equip slots gave a reason to use them. I'm sure you love DS3's "durability" though.
It sounds like you're forgetting that Souls has a weapon unpgrade system that strongly encourages you to keep using the same weapon. At the very best it forces you to upgrade a secondary weapon as a back up and nothing more than that.
I think DaS1 durability is completely pointless, and from there it's not hard to understand I don't think durability has any reason to exist in DaS3 either, so no.

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>>387456089
i hate this fucking monster from the 1dlc. i hate them with all my soul, i cant find any opening and when i find it they counter it faster than me. fuck them

>>387459394
Stamina is by far the best stat in the game if you're using heavy armor, which is a route you could take since you're using a spear. 99 stamina with a 15% weight down on a piece of your armor will allow you to reach B agility even in the heaviest set in the game. Stamina also gives more health per level than any stat bar body. But what really makes stamina good is the todo clan, which gives you additional life per level of stamina making it out-scale body and 2% additional damage per piece of heavy armor.

>>387460102
getting a set of ethereals is fun, shits so broken.

>>387459828
Like what?

>>387461839
Onryoki, Hino-Enma and Nue all drop masks.
Most yokai bosses have forging material that only they drop.
Most human bosses have smithing texts that only they drop.

I'm confused.
Do I gain the stats from my weapons that aren't equipped? You have the two melee and two ranged, do I get all 4 bonuses all the time or no?

>>387462363
smithing texts are worthless and so are forging materials

>>387460115
>>387460487
Having enough whetstones doesn't remove durability any more than having enough elixirs removes health. You still have to be aware of their condition before, during and after fights and judge when the best time to fix them is.
More reasons to do so is good, having only the endgame be the big incentive isn't so good.
Every weapon and armour type had a different max durability level, which certainly does vary them and can play a part in what you decide to mainly use.
I'm not finished yet and I've maxed out everything. Even if it takes until NG+ and you keep going, you won't get any more skill points eventually, and it still only make you use one until it's max, then swap to one more, repeat.
It's not there though if the added mechanic has been removed, to say nothing of what other enemies could be designed around it. If someone really only wanted to use 2 1kats then they still can, it just means there's more reasons to change things up.
Nah, the ones that aren't OP are instead just very very useful. For a different game, doing it like that might work, but not only does it not fit this game, they didn't handle it right at all because the "strong incentive" is just that they can trivialize just about any encounter. Before they were still a bit too strong, but had to be used cleverly since enemies were strong too.
Souls actively does not encourage that at all, for three main simple reasons; each game gives large amounts of titanite and has several sources of it available, most of the games cut off certain upgrade points with acquiring embers giving you more time to try other weapons, weapons share many similar stat requirements so each build has many different weapons available to use. I had another but I forgot it but anyway durability's removal isn't even the worst change made, but it clearly was built as a part of the game.

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>>387441531
STOP WITH THIS FUCKING NINJA GAIDEN MEME ALREADY

For the last time the only thing Ninja Gaiden about NIoh is the reused assets from those games.

>>387462456
No, you only get the bonuses from the weapons you have on hand, with the exception of set bonuses.

>>387453649
>Dual Katana & KusariGama were lifted directly from Ninja Gaiden

How when they don't share a single fucking animation and play completely different from how they do in Ninja Gaiden? This is the stupidest thing i read today.

>>387462658
>Having enough whetstones doesn't remove durability any more than having enough elixirs removes health.
You're saying that like Life Gems isn't a major problem in DaS II. Sure you need to be carefull around some bosses to find the opportunity to heal, but when you're just traveling around is basically does remove health.
>You still have to be aware of their condition before, during and after fights and judge when the best time to fix them is.
If the weapon is at risk you fix it. Unless you're extremely unlucky you will be able to fight off the enemy and then fix your weapon afterwards. Maybe check the weapon before a boss gate and then there is no more conditions to be aware of. If there is a legitimate reason to fear weapns breaking during a battle even if they were fine beforehand then that's bad design, like with Ancient Dragon or Sinh. But then again durability is bad design period.
>Every weapon and armour type had a different max durability level, which certainly does vary them and can play a part in what you decide to mainly use.
Nobody uses weapons/equipment with trash durability. Literally look at any game with a durability mechanic and this should be obvious to you.
>I'm not finished yet and I've maxed out everything.
If this is the case then you really should not talk on the topic. Since the whole end game is build around creating your perfect build and durability not being a thing.
>It's not there though if the added mechanic has been removed, to say nothing of what other enemies could be designed around it.
Yes he depth still is there. The strategy is no deeper if you're forced to switch to a spear, you could always do that. As for the skill points my main point is that there is a good reason to check out the different weapons on your own, and if you still don't want to use them anymore even after getting familiar with them then that's fine.
(1/2)

>>387454797
Bird.
What a fucking classic.

>>387462658
>>387464292
> but not only does it not fit this game, they didn't handle it right at all because the "strong incentive" is just that they can trivialize just about any encounter. Before they were still a bit too strong, but had to be used cleverly since enemies were strong too.
There are like maybe three spells that are OP as fuck, that being sloth, the defence decreasing one, and fast change. The third one is debatable and the first one has been nerfed pretty hard. Shit like bombs and shuriken are very easy to check out and can be handy at finishing off enemies. Shurikens don't get OP unless you dedicate your build to them.
>each game gives large amounts of titanite
Only the lower tiers, which gives you a reason to etry out different weapons before settling for one you like. Quite similar to how proficiency works. DaS has only three guaranteed chunks, one from a side quest. Otherwise they are very rare drops from Dark Wraths. Bloodborne has one Blood Rock. That's literally it.

Durability main purpose is usually to force the player to try out the different options a game has to offer, throughout the game. Nioh encourages this pretty well already, but doesn't force you to continue using options you have already tried but doesn't like. Which is a million times better.

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>>387454797
I love Birb and slightly bigger guy with slow moves high damage

>>387444910
Learn to pick your battles anon, you're supposed to say DS2 or DS3

Is there any downside to using that book to respec?

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>>387440246
i somewhat agree with most what you said.
however, i think is really good during your first playthrough, wich is i assume 50 hours if you include the DLC.
and i think that is enough value already.
i think the low enemy variety isnt much of a problem for new game, and the bosses are actually pretty fun in my opinion.
the Soundtrack is pretty good i think, Okatsu Theme and the music during the first maria fight come to mind.
Also don't forget that in my opinion, both PvP and coop work better and are more fun than they are in Souls games.

i think people are just gonna be really torn on everything that is post game. and yea, despite the remixed enemies and the satisfaction of loot/trying new builds there is not much to it.
but if you are into that or simply WANT MORE NIOH, it's there for you if you want it.
kinda comparable with how Chalice Dungeons add to Bloodborne despite being not very fun for most people.

>>387440246
>Unmemorable soundtrack
DREAM DREAM DREAM I DREAM OF YOU

Anyhow I agree, but between the combat and the credits song I had fun anyway. The combat really carries the game through to the end. It's inevitable sequel will hopefully deliver better on Nioh's weakpoints.

>play Nioh
>get done with it
>play toukiden 2 after it comes out
>notice the Tengu in Toukiden use the exact same moveset as the tengu in Nioh, just with a few moves removed and much much shittier textures

Why is Tecmo so lazy

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I wish there was a way to visit the store or blacksmith instead of having to beat a boss or finish a mission. Ive had a lot of fun in this game, but that is my only qualm.

>>387465860
Aside from it taking a long ass time to respec, no.
You can buy limitless ones at the smith anyway. They rise in price for each you buy but they eventually reaches a roof that's still reasonable.

>>387464292
Any enemy still has the capacity to kill you despite you being able to heal often, it really does not remove health as a mechanic, don't actually take that stance because it's just silly.
Are you seriously saying a mechanic is just flat out bad design no matter what and completely disregarding that it matters how the mechanic is implemented? How is it bad design for enemies to take advantage of and use mechanics to provide certain challenges? There's nothing wrong with say an area with extended enemy encounters as a gauntlet of sorts, or a certain enemy type with an attack that does higher weapon damage, if it fits with the rest of the game which it very much did. This entire part of your post is ridiculous.
Funny, not only are you making a huge claim you can't actually back up and is actually proven wrong in many games, but 1kat had the lowest max durability out of all weapons, yet it was one of the most used weapons in the Alpha. None of them had "trash" durability either.
This part makes no sense. Of course I can talk about how durability affects the game since I actually played the version that had durability in it. Extensively, unlike most. Durability still would not go against anything in the endgame.
No, only one layer exists, not the one that's added around the other additional mechanic. It still means you only ever need one equipped weapon which is the problem and it is a problem in a game about loot and forging and acquiring many weapons as well as strong deep combat.

How to make a good tonfa build?

>>387466904
tonfas are inherently shit, so good luck with that

>>387466134
sup Patch

What killed this game for me was them continuing to add more difficulty modes and higher tiers of gear. What is this? A MMO? I just don't like the loot pinata shit and having to micromanage my inventory all the time. Most of which is just trash with maybe one or two good pieces. Then the clusterfuck of gear skills on top of it. I don't think they struck a very good balance between action and RPG.

>>387465146
There are so many more beyond those and combinations of them that it would be easier to just say everything, but for examples Guardian Spirit, Kekkai, Protection, Carnage, Groundfire, Smoke Balls and more are very powerful. Sloth is still stupidly powerful for how many you can get. Having these on top of the other changes (which are far more important and crippling that the durability change and I wish people would not home in on this shit instead just because they get triggered by it) with them not being significantly weakened themselves makes everything far too easy to unbalance.
You don't have to have a weapon fully upgraded or even upgraded to the third tier until near the end of the game, and one upgrade level isn't that big a difference either. Darkwraiths are a consistent place you can get as many as you want, so as I said there are still sources available.
No, durability's main purpose is whatever the game is designed for it to do. Monster Hunter treats it entirely differently for example. Nioh durability does in part make you try other weapons, but it's mainly to encourage preparedness and usage of all equipped weapons, and well, I already posted a big list of what it can and does achieve.

>>387467071
At worst sorting your inventory should take under a minute, if not then you're not doing it nearly enough. If they wanted to add a truly meaningful difficulty mode they would make the game like how it used to be.

>>387467071
It's diablo. Everything about it is diablo. From the gear to the set bonuses to the rarity tiers to the style of the difficulties to the elite mobs with random buffs. It's diablo through and through, and that's okay.

Calm down.

>>387467071
well, even if you dont go down the autism spiral of replaying the game 4 times, you still get the DLCs (wich are pretty good) each adding a new weapon and weapon skilltree, new gear, bosses, enemies and guardian spirits.
some people enjoy the higher difficulties and the grind for loot / builds, and those people probably get an easy 300 hours out of this game.

>Its cool to hate on (GAME)
What a groundbreaking and original thought on /v/ of all places!

>>387467071
I don't understand how this could kill a game for you. It's just extra content for people who want it. How can extra optional content make a game worse.

I liked the "duel" boss fights but the game DESPERATELY needed a better OST and boss themes

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>>387467046

>you remember Patch

bless you bubba. Im glad I found this game. I almost dropped it after that fucking Chain Ogre boss on the ship, but I was eventually able to beat him

>>387444247
Yeah, I don't know what these people are talking about. I'd understand if they said not enough music, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9ydSoxtGzA

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>tfw still no mothfu

>>387467672
some of these tracks are really good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GpGwpLn1hU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PeIi_HEvhI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-s0v0AWkbw

I think the problem is that some of the just okay ones are reused way too much

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>>387467829
>tfw still no bare handed skill tree

>People like something on /v/ for awhile
>People notice it
>Then thread among thread on why it's actually bad
>Every game that comes out and even old /v/ classics

Hating shit on /v/ has become a meme. People just hate shit here on principle alone now

>>387461368

Smash their horns and final blow/discord them.

>>387468108
It's honestly ridiculous. Like yeah it used to be a kind of funny meme to do that but then new fucking idiots from Facebook and Reddit thought everyone was being 100% serious so now we're stuck with a board that hates everything unironically, except blizzard and Nintendo shit faggots here will always eat that up.

>>387466720
Only moderate to hard enemies that either hit incredibly hard or fast becomes a problem if you have excessive healing. All mobs that are purely designed to wear you down becomes trivial. That's the truth.
Because it adds nothing to the experience.If you can't get the player to try out other options or challenge themselves without forcing them to do so then that's bad design. Durability only has a place in survival games.
>Funny, not only are you making a huge claim you can't actually back up and is actually proven wrong in many games, but 1kat had the lowest max durability out of all weapons, yet it was one of the most used weapons in the Alpha. None of them had "trash" durability either.
I was saying that if you seriously want to differentiate weapons based on their durability, then they have to actually differ noticeably. But please do come with examples were weapons with terrible durabilty is favored.
>This part makes no sense. Of course I can talk about how durability affects the game since I actually played the version that had durability in it. Extensively, unlike most. Durability still would not go against anything in the endgame.
Do you have any idea what end game Nioh consists of? It is about creating perfect weapons, and durability absolutely goes against that. The alpha had two fucking levels and didn't even have the black smith. You saying you can talk about how durability would affect the end game when you haven't even gotten to the end game and think you have an idea because you have played two missions over and over is beyond ridiculous.
>No, only one layer exists, not the one that's added around the other additional mechanic.
You can still switch weapons if you feel like another one is better for that enemy or something. Forcing you to switch instead of giving you the choice isn't another layer.
I hope you understand that durability makes forging less interesting since you can't rely on your finely crafted weapon.

>>387468108
If you'd been around for the initial Nioh threads you would realise just how true this is. Except now there's the added bonus of "It's shit because I'm bad at it so I'll get the game changed so it's worse for you and bitch about it later anyway."

>>387467071

Agreed. It wouldn't be so bad if you could work around it, but the randomness just kills everything. There's no reason to perfect your build until after the last DLC comes out because it'll just become irrelevant before then anyways.

>>387468841
So it's irrelevant to play any game with loot if it has DLC because it'll be irrelevant in 3 months? That's fucking retarded

>>387468924
>>387468841
depends on when you play the game.
if you start now, its useless to grind loot / farm until the DLC 2 difficulty and ethereals.
or if you have difficulties with the game.
its kinda like World of Warcraft expansions, you had a natural progression and always tried to gear up for endgame / the next expansion.
but if you start playing world of warcraft now you dont give a shit about loot until you hit max level.

>>387467118
Kekkai, Protection and current Carnage are great but not overpowered, which is how magic should be.
Groundfire requires a dedicated build for it to be broken, or else you're going to run out. I admit I have not played around with Smoke Balls.
GS is broken with shit like Daiba Washi against humans, but in WotW most actually resist it.
And come on, durability has very little inpact on how balanced these spells are. Original sloth would have been broken in Alpha as well.
>You don't have to have a weapon fully upgraded or even upgraded to the third tier until near the end of the game, and one upgrade level isn't that big a difference either.
That's the point. It lets you play around in early and mid game before you decide what you want to do later on. Exactly like filling up your proficiency. Sure you can farm Darkwraths, but trying to say the game ever encourages you to do that is a lie. And as for BB you have that one stone and that' it. No other sources.
>but it's mainly to encourage preparedness and usage of all equipped weapons
If the point is to encourage preparedness it might not as well exist. Just pop a whetstone before a big encounter and then that is out of the way.
As has been stated countless times already there are many reasons to try out the different weapons in early and mid game without durability. As for using all eqipped items there are already a decent amount of reasons to do so, some work better for crowd control than other, using two with two different elements can inflict confusion and several other affixes that makes them ideal for different situations.

>soulsbabys cant handle not getting the same loot in every playthrough over and over in the same exact place.

>>387468713
If you completely disregard encounter and level design maybe, and you're also forgetting about any number of other enemy types or designs that can also be combined, and yet it's still something you have to keep on top of anyway making it still a present factor.
Nioh's weapons do still have enough differences where durability can become an interesting factor. For other games though, Fire Emblem comes to mind, but we're talking about Nioh specifically here.
I've played far more than you even dare to think, and have spent much of my time forging despite it being useless so that I can understand it actually but thanks for trying to make me out to be the ridiculous one now. It's not like getting a perfect weapon is that complex a goal, and durability encouraging the use of multiple weapons simultaneously encourages the forging aspect. Also, I don't think you actually know this, but weapons don't disappear when they break in the Nioh Alpha, they only weaken over time. It still sounds like you're putting your own views of durability over what it actually is.
It is, since you have more things to consider in weapon choice and usage as well as stance and attack usage, which durability was used in balancing.
Durability doesn't remove forging or your weapon as I've already said, it only gives you more to think about regarding it.

>>387469939
>If you completely disregard encounter and level design maybe, and you're also forgetting about any number of other enemy types or designs that can also be combined, and yet it's still something you have to keep on top of anyway making it still a present factor.
No, anything that is meant to wear you down just becomes trivial, which is usually a big part of games like this. No amount of encounter or level design can fix this. Sure you can put a bunch of weak mobs together, but then their purpose is not to wear you down to the next encounter, but to gank and kill you.
Yeah, the weapons already stand out pretty well from each other, that's the point. The durability difference between them would have to be significant if it was to actually make anyone reconsider which one to use.
>I've played far more than you even dare to think
No, you don't understand forging if you're just doing it in NG. Whatever you forge will be outclassed by the next mission. Hell, you haven't even experienced +# values, which is a huge reason why it is so taxing to make a perfect weapon.
>durability encouraging the use of multiple weapons simultaneously encourages the forging aspect.
I don't think you understand how long tie it takes to make perfect weapons and such. And if you're an autist who has already perfected one weapon you're likely going to perfect your second one too, like me.
>It is, since you have more things to consider in weapon choice and usage as well as stance and attack usage, which durability was used in balancing.
Weapon and especially stance consideration is something you consider already. Having to pop a whetstone before or after doesn't change that at all.
>Durability doesn't remove forging or your weapon
It devalues forging and creating good weapons, since you can't rely on the weapons and thus have less reason to do it. Unless you suggest you can always pop a whetstone but then durability is meaningless.

>>387469719
They're borderline really, but them being strong isn't the issue, it's that all the enemies are too weak because of all the other changes made to the game that they are not changed to accommodate outside of a paltry damage boost, which I listed in some other post. Groundfire still launches enemies, and GS even without the launch does high damage and easy elemental activation in most cases. And yes actually, Sloth was pretty overpowered in the Alpha too despite the general game being more dangerous so using such things wasn't an instant win button, which is why it's stupid that they had to remove other mechanics and make enemies weaker. Durability is just one of many casualties.
I didn't say the game encourages you to farm them, but the game giving you many outlets to strengthen multiple weapons doesn't mean it wants you to only focus on a single one, especially with how many weapons there are.
That's one reason, on top of all the others I mentioned, and what you're saying is yet again, a completely binary and naive way of looking at it. What you're saying here as well is indirectly implying that there should never be a reason to change weapon if you only like one, since you're only talking about swapping between different weapon types which is only one thing encouraged by having even more differences between them.

>>387454797
>>387465191
Bloodborne still has way more enemies, and does a better job of reusing the basic crazy townspeople enemies thanks to it's level design. Bloodborne doesn't just mindlessly spam these enemies at you like Nioh does.

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>tfw /v/ will never understand how budget will set games apart from one another
Makes sense given all the basement dwellers and newfags.

>>387471231
>They're borderline really, but them being strong isn't the issue, it's that all the enemies are too weak because of all the other changes made to the game that they are not changed to accommodate outside of a paltry damage boost, which I listed in some other post.
At this point you're just saying the game is too easy period, which I have no interest in discussing with you. The point was purely that there is a reason to use magic without durability. Also Sloth was an instant win button from the start, the whole point of it is that you have to be a literal moron to be hit while it is active.
>I didn't say the game encourages you to farm them,
You said it didn't encourage you to focus on a single weapon, which it definitely does when you're getting near the end and has tried out most of the weapons.
>a completely binary and naive way of looking at it.
Please explain further, if this is a response to the readiness factor durability presents then yes, it really is a simple as that.
>indirectly implying that there should never be a reason to change weapon if you only like one, since you're only talking about swapping between different weapon types
Did you not read my post at all? I pointed out different weapons having different affixes and potentially elements and such. That you can easily do with two weapons of the same type. Take a lightning imbues sword, inflict the enemy with lightning and the switch to a water imbued one, no you got confusion.

>>387471127
But Nioh itself has several missions already like this, where waves come in and you're not given much time in between them so you have to survive them all. Of course since they made everything easier you can blow through them but it's the clear intention. To be honest I can just bring up that you originally could only carry 10 anyway, which is plenty but not if you're burning them every step of the way.
1kat was at 200 durability, spear was at 300 and axe was at 400, which is fairly significant. Armour followed a similar pattern though I forget the exact numbers.
Well, what I've had has been strong for quite some time, but it was mainly to know about it. Making perfect weapons isn't entirely necessary anyway but for someone that wants to make them it's just more gameplay. Damaged weapons aren't even severely weakened either, they're still usable.
They're considered, but they're also extremely powerful and there's less reason to learn to use all and swap between them. Durability didn't affect this as much as other factors did, but it did play a part in the balance, for armour as well as weapon.
Except you can because they still exist. And now you're falling into the same binary trap again.

>>387472858
I'm not saying Nioh doesn't have gank squads. I'm saying their purpose is to kill you, not wear you down. Also this was about excessive healing, which isn't a problem in Nioh in the first place. Lone skeletons and such actually have a purpose.
>To be honest I can just bring up that you originally could only carry 10 anyway, which is plenty but not if you're burning them every step of the way.
This is durability. Of course your not going to burn through it ever step of the way. It's not based of how careless you play, it's based of how much you play. Unless you're grinding you're not burning through anything. And if that's the case then you might as well not have durability in the first place.
>Making perfect weapons isn't entirely necessary anyway but for someone that wants to make them it's just more gameplay.
Well that is true, but that's what the endgame consists of. Making perfect weapons and having fun with them.
>Except you can because they still exist. And now you're falling into the same binary trap again.
>They're considered, but they're also extremely powerful and there's less reason to learn to use all and swap between them.
Nah man, sure you not use maybe one of the three stances a lot, but they're definitely encouraging you to use different stances for different situations, and once you have mastered Flux it alone is a strong reason to switch between them mid battle.
If whetstones are reliable then sure, but then you might as well just remove durability. If there is a huge chance you'll run out then they aren't and you can't rely on your weapon either.

>>387472735
Actually, the original reason you brought up Ninjutsu and Onmyo was because you said they motivated you to use them well, when all they are is far too powerful for the game as is (until they added difficulties with huge stats and buffs), which is a very haphazard way of motivating you to do something that undermines the rest of the game. Compared with durability, which gradually lowers your damage and defence with overreliance on one weapon or failure to avoid hits, giving an actual downside to playing poorly but one that can be avoided or worked around and doesn't restrict you.
It really doesn't, if being able to equip 4/6 at once isn't a sign I don't know what is. But that's Souls anyway
You're taking the mechanic in a vacuum, not taking into account how it actually worked in and alongside the game and assuming this is the only situation that can ever exist and have it be relevant in when that's not the case at all.
Confusion isn't something uniquely attributed to having two weapons and is doable with many other methods even easier.

>>387474426
Every enemy group is in the position to do both of those things, that's generally the whole basis of those gauntlet missions. It's reasonable to assume that depending on situation durability would come into play in an active manner in those kinds of fights.
Nioh's stance system and back attack damage bonuses does make it a matter of how careful or careless you played, along with the fact that dying reduced durability.
Endgame consists of a whole lot besides just that, but having a real reason to use more of those perfect weapons is nice.
There's certainly more you can do when mastering the different stances, but what many other people have said is that it doesn't push you to really have to use them. Durability just lowers damage though, it doesn't stop you from relying on your weapon.

>>387474757
I thought we have been over this already? Sure a few a broken but many are just great, not broken. Which is the best way to make players use shit like that. Shit like Kunais are a perfect example. Carnage isn't even broken anymore and is very fun to use.
>It really doesn't, if being able to equip 4/6 at once isn't a sign I don't know what is.
4/6 what, weapons? The fact that the game is very cheap with the best upgrade material is a much stronger point for just focusing on one, maybe two weapons in Souls games.
You're taking the mechanic in a vacuum, not taking into account how it actually worked in and alongside the game and assuming this is the only situation that can ever exist and have it be relevant in when that's not the case at all.
Then please explain these all so interesting situations. That can't be prevented by using a whetstone before, or just switching to your secondary weapon if you're out.
>Confusion isn't something uniquely attributed to having two weapons and is doable with many other methods even easier.
It was an example. Use a spear to trip an enemy and then switch to a sword for higher finishing blow or something.

>>387475409
Nah, there is always time to heal, or potentially whetstone, between the waves. You're talking like the durability is something you constantly have to think about. It doesn't run out that fast, pop a whetstone after a wave and you feel like you're going to run out of durability soon and you're good to go.
>Endgame consists of a whole lot besides just that, but having a real reason to use more of those perfect weapons is nice.
It really doesn't. Grinding for smithing texts and making your perfect build is what you're doing once you have finished all the missions in [current highest difficulty].
>There's certainly more you can do when mastering the different stances, but what many other people have said is that it doesn't push you to really have to use them. Durability just lowers damage though, it doesn't stop you from relying on your weapon.
You're not making a lot of sense here. Do you insist that durability pushes you to seek new options and not rely on your weapon, or do you insist you can still rely on it. If you're now saying that your weapon having used up its durability isn't a big deal and you can still rely on it without having to change anything up, then what's the point of durability? Besides that, some enemies are pushing you to switch stances a bit, like the dweller being very hard to hit when they're crawling in certain stances.

>>387475761
>>387476580
Yeah and you didn't want to talk about the state of the game's balance in regards to them, though I've already made my response on that. They're too powerful for how many you get and how the game has been changed.
4/6 weapons, and upgrading to max or near max isn't nearly as necessary or difficult as you make it sound, and has only gotten easier to do as the series went on. But again, that's a different game and that was always a tangent anyway.
I already said a bunch, like enemies pressuring you, falling into a trap or ambush you don't know of, or enemies that specifically damage it instead of doing much damage, but the fact you have to use a whetstone or change weapons alone shows the mechanic is in action.
Any combos like that get encouraged further by durability since whetstones repair all equipped weapons anyway.
>>387476580
Not always, though this was also back when elixirs were both slower and weaker. It doesn't run out as fast as people bitched about but it sure did go down enough to keep it in mind.
Doing those missions in the new difficulties kinda is endgame too and there's coop at least.
It does both to an extent. Just because it encourages using both your weapons doesn't mean you can't ever count on each weapon. If I remember right the numbers were 3/4 damage at half and 1/3 damage at zero, which is still usable since you don't lose the weapon itself, but is dangerous. Armour is something to consider too. Dwellers are the only enemy that really does that, and funnily enough even they were too hard since they used to not be staggered, similar to larger yokai.
I'd continue, but it's late and I'm tired so I'm gonna have to quit for now. I don't know if you played the Alpha, but the game was clearly designed with durability in mind from the beginning, they didn't have any time to change the game enough to compensate for it's removal or the countless other unfocused changes made, and it still shows even now, like old wounds.

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>>387467672
>tfw this isn't a menu track
I would idle on the main menu so much if this played in one of the DLC region maps

>>387448905
Ginchiyo is literally used goods, how the fuck is she pure?

>>387477915
>4/6 weapons, and upgrading to max or near max isn't nearly as necessary or difficult as you make it sound, and has only gotten easier to do as the series went on. But again, that's a different game and that was always a tangent anyway.
In DaS you have two slabs you're probably going to pick up, the last one includes doing the Catarina quest. The game isn't being generous with you. You're also ignoring that BB literally only gives you one.
>but the fact you have to use a whetstone
But that is entirely wrong. If you can just use a whetstone then the mechanic is redundant.
>Any combos like that get encouraged further by durability since whetstones repair all equipped weapons anyway.
You know, unless you want to save one of the weapons.
>Doing those missions in the new difficulties kinda is endgame too and there's coop at least.
I agree to some extent if you have the DLC, but if you just have the vanilla game then you'll be finished with the missions on WotS in no time and all you can do is pimp your character further. Also co-op is a means to get your gear better, since it rewards umbracite, you're still working towards the same goal there.
> If I remember right the numbers were 3/4 damage at half and 1/3 damage at zero, which is still usable since you don't lose the weapon itself, but is dangerous. At zero yeah, but 3/4 isn't a big deal in the slightest. Also if you're almost finished with the battle then just continuing with low damage and popping the whetstone afterwards isn't that big of a deal.

I played the alpha and I disagree with your last point. Durability was no fun, and between the weapons being constantly outclassed by new ones every mission in NG, and familiarity making the weapon better as you use them I consider the final product much better in that specific regard.
Good night.