The rage towards the combat mechanics of Morrowind is super exaggerated

>>387397850
no you idiot its as bad as team fortress 2s random crit system

>>387398223
It's not even close to being that bad.

>>387397850
Dice rolls are a meme problem, the real reason why Morrowind's combat is shallow is fuck is that you have no options but to just mash the attack button. Blocking is automated, you can't really dodge, there are no special moves. If the weapon has a big damage range you get to hold and click the button instead.
>HURR THERE ARE 3 DIFFERENT ATTACKS
Are you retarded? There is even an option to always use the best one for the weapon. There is literally no reason to use the other two. Pointless, stillborn "mechanic"

The random attacks are only harsh against new players starting out. Once you've leveled up at least five times you will most likely not miss half the time.

You see these complaints from newbies who have played the game for 30 minutes before dying to the first mudcrab they see.

Thankfully, Morrowind was never about the combat. The battles are short and simple, and never overstays its welcome. There's a reason why the most fun spells in the game are non-combat ones.

>>387398540
The combat system is literally the same as in Oblivion and Skyrim except it also has the rpg mechanics influencing everything. Morrowind's combat is a masterpiece compared to the newer games.

>>387397850
I'm fine with dice rolls as long as it looks like you're missing when you're missing.

It just feels weird when you hit then and nothing happens.

>>387398836
That goes for every fucking rpg ever made, isometric rpgs didn't have separate animations for hit attacks and miss attacks
If you play in third person and miss, why is it any different than first person

>>387398937
Morrowind is mostly about immersion, and I guess for a lot of people the combat breaks the immersion at times.

I think there's a mod that fixes it though.

>>387398937
But in those games, the camera is far away, so you don't notice it. In Morrowind, it's in first person, so there's no room for imagination: you swung a sword, and it passed through the enemy's body like they were a fucking Stand. Morrowind would've been better if it was built for 3rd person.

>>387397850
There's everything wrong with RNG determining hit chance in a first person game where your movement and timing attacks ALSO determine if you hit your enemy or not. Morrowind combat is shit. All Bethesda games are lacking.

>>387398707
>Thankfully, Morrowind was never about the combat.
I guess that's why the game world is littered with small dungeons full of enemies...

Reducing the damage when out of stamina and being non-proficient with a weapon should be enough.
As >>387399076 said, the first person view makes it rally frustrating to see your attacks connect with with the enemy but deal no damage because the system determined you missed.
Its not a very good design and there is a reason why it isn't there anymore.

Calculating the average damage a character deals can be balanced without it just as well.

>>387399171
>I guess that's why the game world is littered with small dungeons full of enemies...

Of course there are dangers in the world, it wouldn't be an interesting exploration game without enemies. The point being that once you're in combat, it's for the most time short and sweet. Compare that to Oblivion and Skyrim, where the focus is way too much on combat when the combat is in fact absolute shit still. You keep flailing your sword at sponges all game, sometimes chucking potions, but that's about it. Morrowind never relies on its combat, and most situations can be solved some other way.

>>387399368
>and most situations can be solved some other way.
Now that is just not true. Nearly all quests have you killing stuff one way or another. With the exceptions of the thiefsguild but I'm pretty sure you do some killing there too.

Been playing through Morrowind the last couple of weeks. The first few hours are honestly pretty bad, and the beginning of the game is ass all around.

However, once you grind/level up to a point where your primary way of attacking isn't missing so goddamn much, the game opens up dramatically and becomes WAAAY more playable and enjoyable.

I still think the hit % should have been balanced a bit different, but I am OK with it now.

>>387399564
I'd say less than half of quests are specifically about killing someone, and most of them are in combat-specific guilds such as Fighter's Guild, Morag Tong and Redoran.

Most quests are about retrieving something, and those can be solved in many number of ways.

>>387399296
it's just as bad as hitting someone on the head with an axe, hitting and them not dying, even when unarmored.

>>387399817
>Join the imperial cult
>Literally half the missions you can do either by giving gold or finding various things in the world.
>Was one of the quickest factions I maxed out.

Morag Tong was also really fucking fast since I got a good chunk of the quest items you need for the last quests just by exploring. Fighters Guild took forever though.

>>387397850
Its basically a casual filter but not the game strong point.

>>387397850
>combat is super fucking boring
>it gets even more fucking boring the second you reach 100 in weapon skill of choice because now you're out of your Skinner box and have little to no motivation to engage in combat

Morrowind somehow managed to make the main gameplay loop the most boring part

>>387399564
You can just cast a absorb helth spell instead of hitting things with a sword though, there are many options. Swords aren't that effective anyway, if you want an overpowered weapon in Morrowind take a fucking SPEAR. I feel like everyone who complains about the combat has never simply summoned a Bound Spear, you basically don't need another weapon in the whole game, it's so good.

>>387397850
Does the game even use dicerolls or is that just a retarded meme
I thought the game just calculates probabilities based off weapon skill, stats and fatigue?

>>387397850
If there were an animation for failed diceroll I'd have no problem with it. The way it is is just stupid.

>>387400012
why bother with spears when goldbrand is so easy to obtain

>>387399817
Finding stuff in dangerous environment most of the time. Which means you will have to sneak in most of the time which leaves you with either stealth character or illusion mage if you don't want to engage combat.
>>387400012
>You can just cast a absorb helth spell instead of hitting things with a sword though,
That is still combat.

>>387400079
Dicerolls are probabilities anon.

>>387400079
Well according to casuals there shouldn't be probabilities and every swing should be a hit
Because hitting someone with a giant axe in the head and doing a little damage apparently makes more sense than just missing because you're "less skilled" at giant axes
Both ways are abstractions to balance videogame combat, neither is realistic so this argument is dumb.

Besides, magic is so much better at dealing damage in the early game. Playing a melee-oriented character in this game is failing at life, no other Elder Scrolls has a spell creator this good.

>>387398726

>Morrowind's combat
>Masterpiece

No

No, no one would think this way, unless morrowind was the only RPG they played.

>>387400174
>Finding stuff in dangerous environment most of the time. Which means you will have to sneak in most of the time which leaves you with either stealth character or illusion mage if you don't want to engage combat.

In other words, most situations can be solved without combat. It's not my fault that you rolled a combat-heavy build, and then got surprised that you had to use combat.

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>>387397850
Actually, its more that you need to manage your stamina. The higher your stamina, the higher your chance to hit. If you only attack when your stamina is full, you will hit almost every time.

It's just that the game never actually tells you that.
At least that I can remember.

>>387400174
Dicerolls are different from calculated probabilities because latter has actual influences on the result while former is way more random.

>>387399076
This. In isometric games it's easier to accept misses because they aren't in conflict with what you see, but in Morrowind it looks stupid to see blows going through enemy. It's also true that shitters exaggerate the problem by having shit character builds, but the key point here is that it looks stupid no matter how rarely it happens.

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The only reason I'm not replaying Morrowind any time soon is literally the stupid combat and the walking speed. I don't care for the graphics, just somebody please make a patch/mod that changes the gameplay mechanics to Oblivion's. I 100%'d the whole game + both expansions back in the day, but no way I'm fine with this artificial difficulty and padding nowadays.

>>387400296
>Besides, magic is so much better at dealing damage in the early game
In Morrowind? Are you joking? You have to chug mana potions like crazy to sustain an ongoing battle.
If you simply roll an orc with proficiency in a weapon and armor you can simply steamroll right from the fucking start. A mage has to get all sorts of shit to even be able to stand up against most common enemies and then you still run out of steam once mana-potions run out.
And later on you get butt-fucked by passive reflection from enemies.
Being a mage in Morrowind is suffering.

okay combat is weird, just mod it out with the MEN Combat mod which makes you hit all the time, jesus.

now what else is bad about morrowind?

>>387400560
In other words you're an autist who can't get over a basic videogame abstraction and enjoy a great game.

>There is nothing wrong with dicerolls in determining hits in an RPG

There isn't, but there is a strange disconnect between seeing your hit physically touch your enemy and the game telling you, you didn't.

>>387400605
Use boots of blinding speed

>>387400352
Dicerolls aren't just 6-20 dice.
You can measure in any sort of numbers.
like weapon deals like 20+2d6 + first digit of your agility.
Thats how RPGs work. Morrowind was modeled after a P&P game with dice.

>>387400560
This is pretty much why I have a bit of a problem with games like boarderlands that does rpg mechanics like that through guns.
To my mind, I can clearly see that I'm hitting the guy, and every single one of these bullets cant possibly be this different, right?

But if I hit a guy with a sword, then I can kind of handwave a lot of it in my head with that weak hit there just being like a glancing blow or something that didnt go that deep.

Suppose the exception would be the fallout games where every single gun looks like its held together with ductape and string, and I might very well be shooting peanuts at the guy for all I know.

>>387400012
>there's magic in a fantasy RPG
Wow, Morrowind truly was a masterpiece ahead of its time.

>>387400605
How long has that skyrim edition of morrowind been in the works now?

>>387400623
>not being an atronach
>not summoning ghosts as portable battery dispensers
>not buying an absorb health spell from the store, which has a minor cost for great effectiveness
>not buying other damage on touch spells for elemental weaknesses
>not paralysing powerful enemies and wearing them down

All of my long-term chars in Morrowind have been unarmoured spellcasters, they're not weak at all. Later on you can give yourself constant effect armors and be as defensible as an orc. I have never seen a game that allows so much creativity and overpowered stuff when playing as a mage.

>>387401417
how the fuck do you even reach balmora and make some money as a pure mage build

Diceroll RNG combat is a leftover relic from tabletop gaming and isn't needed in a real time video game.

Saying "it's fine you're just a shitty casual" is like saying it's wrong to dislike the way TV shows only air at certain times when we live in a world of online on demand entertainment where we can just watch whatever whenever we want. Or go back even further, say people are casuals if they want color TV because it used to black and white. You're a casual if you want TV at all because you used to have to go to a movie. You're a casual if you want your movie to have sound because they used to be silent. You're a casual if you watch movies at all because we used to have to go see plays.

See how silly all those things are?

>>387401417
I agree they are much more fun yes I won't argue against that. It is a lot more worthwhile for an experienced player.
All that stuff you mentioned requires a bigger game mechanic understanding on a second or third play-through though. And a Redguard with a sword and half decent build is still on par with you or better and requires minimal setup. So I'd say no mages aren't more powerful early to midgame.

>>387401637
Just take a fucking silt-strider you moron. Imperial dude even gives you money for the ride.

>>387401637
Do you need a guide or something?
You can easily make close to 2k around Seyda Neen after doing all the noob quests. Everything in that area can be killed by Firebite or other spell like that. With unarmoured, destruction and restoration as major skills you can survive well enough. Later on you can buy awesome spells and create your own. It's not like Morrowind is a hard game.

>>387401787
>stats and rules are meaningless and have no place in modern video games
fuck off retard

>>387401637
you could always take the silt strider, then just teleport to caldera, "borrow" that master alchemy set they have, teleport back and go to the temple in Balmora make some potions, there you go infinite money + powerful potions once your alchemy is high enough.

>>387401873
That's clearly not what I said why are you strawmanning.

>>387400724
I have no problem enjoying Morrowind, quite the contrary, as I have sunk hundreds of hours in it. It's just that I can both enjoy a game and still admit that it has its flaws, unlike most of /v/ that has either to pretend that games are literally flawless or unplayable shit.

>>387401884
>recommending using exploits and meta-knowledge
But seriously, though. The optimal way to play Morrowind is to start with a warrior build and then slowly add various magic schools as you begin to feel confident in your combat skills. Pure mage builds are trash.

>>387401787
Well you don't need any of those things, you are objectively a casual if you don't read books as a primary form of entertainment and enrichment.
That includes me as well but I don't have to pretend that modern media are somehow better because they require less thought.

>>387402114
>reading books
>not journeying across the land to hear the story directly from an oracle
Fucking underaged casual shits you literally need to kill yourself.

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>>387402170
>muh oral tradition

>>387402170
Is that Oracle deeply familiar with the tradition of western philosophy, the literary canon and contemporary social problems in global capitalism?
No? Then I'd stick with books,

>>387402015
well, I give you the meta-knowledge part, he could just join a guild and eventually buy a mortar and pestle somewhere too or get one as a quest reward, pretty sure the imperial temple gives you at least some stuff, I also don't consider alchemy an exploit, it's not my fault the entire system is broken beyond hope and wasn't tested even once, same goes for spellmaking, if you get into it even just a bit you can do ridiculous game-braking shit, it all doesn't really matter anyway, if you reach level 30 or so and aren't a walking god you are doing something wrong anyways, even as a pure fighter.

>>387402385
stop using so many commas

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>>387402456

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>>387402114
Does that mean I'm pirating if I just read the books on the wiki or something?

>>387402015
>>387402385
Finding the mortar and pestle set isn't all that difficult though.
I found it on my first playtrough within the first hour because just walking around the first two bigger mage-guilds gives you this thing.
And Alchemy is damn solid without doing the fortify int trick so there isn't anything meta about it because just using all the shit you loot in cases are actually useful now.

>>387402591
this
Fuck combat, I would say the worst flaw in Morrowind is that picking ingredients isn't more convenient, there are so fucking many and you need to open the window and click on select all every single time.

>>387398315
>>387398315
yeah it's way worse

>>387402015
i've never played elder scrolls games before and i've heard multiple people say pure mage builds are trash. why is that?

>>387402998
Because they suck at playing the game. The problem with pure mages in Morrowind is that Magicka doesn't regenerate unless you rest, so early game you're quite limited with your spellcasting. When you level alchemy to a decent level and get Master-level alchemy equipment, you can make a billion powerful Regenerate Magicka potions and spam OP spells all day long. Just make sure your Conjuration is really high so you can summon things to tank damage and kill things that are immune or resistant to magic attacks.

Oblivion and Skyrim mages don't even have that problem, so they're even more OP.

>>387402998
Needs more game knowledge because just casting fireball wont get you very far.
Also it can buttfuck you lategame because enemies have spell-reflection and have the possibility to reflect the damage or paralysis spells you cast.
It is more fun though to work around that stuff.

>>387398707
>pick a weapon skill on character creation
>use weapons applicable to that skill
>kill stuff in seconds
The only way I can see newbies failing at this is if they're trying to kill shit that's way too strong for them.

>>387403280
>Also it can buttfuck you lategame because enemies have spell-reflection and have the possibility to reflect the damage or paralysis spells you cast.

Conjuration. Few things can withstand a continuous assault by Golden Saints and Winged Blights. 'Course, you'll have to chug Magicka potions like crazy.

>>387397850
So the thread from yesterday inspired someone? MIssing/fizzling spells isn't an issue except in the very beginning of the game, and you do reach god-tier late game. But what does that have to do with the actual combat mechanics, which are non-existent? Passive block and different attacks that doesn't even do anything aside from sometimes making different amounts of damage (you always want the one that does the most).

Still the best TES of course.

>>387403446
>Conjuration.
Very helpful yes and mandatory to keep cunts away from you.
Still if you let your minions fight at the frontlines, you still can harm yourself a lot when you take potshots at the enemy and your damage spells get reflected. Lategame needs a lot of magic resistance, absorption, etc so you don't fuck yourself with your high velocity spells.
Going full glass cannon is very out of the question in the unmodded game.

>tfw 17 hours in Morrowind and still haven't leveled up at all

reminder telvanni is the worst house

Question: I just beat Dagoth Ur and I am currently working on the Tribunal main quest right now. Should I bother with the Royal Palace quests, or are they a waste of time?

>>387404302
Lol no, Hlaalu are the worst, literally nothing but greedy merchants

>>387397850
But witcher 3's combat is just terrible. Am I right my morrowshit friend? :D

Ok so I bought a spell from a shop in Morrowind but the spell itself isn't showing up in my inventory. Am I doing something wrong?