CONTINUED >>387379901 THIS IS BAD GAME DESIGN AND

>>387392171
The ultimate casual filter.

>>387392171
>not just looking at the claw in the inventory
Eyelets when will they learn

>>387392171
If you used a PC, then I can understand not getting this.

Console players have no excuse

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seriously the whole bethesda defender argument

Reposting >>387391657 since he brought up a decent point

This is how the claw is presented to you when it is looted from Arvel the Swift's body, and here is the source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A [Embed]
a playthrough dated the day after the game came out. This is the way the claw is presented to you in the menus, and assuming that you didn't know about the rotate mechanic, this is the default position the claw is displayed in, since the camera would not have been adjusted, since if it was, you would have to have done it, and you would therefore know about the rotate mechanic. The three symbols are very pronounced in this position.

>>387392307
Add something along the lines of their mom figuring it out instantly even tho it's her first video game

Its actually good game design, but they didnt give any context that you would need to inspect the claw.

Game just needed an establishing line

>>387392496
It's in the note you get from the spider snack.

>>387392496
>didn't give context to inspect
That's the part that's bad design.

Its mentioned no where in the manual that you can inspect items.

>>387392638
https://cdn.bethsoft.com/bethsoft.com/manuals/Skyrim/skyrimle_pc_manual-ENUS.pdf

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Reposting my response to
>>387391243
>you only see that it's obvious the markings were on the claw is because you've already completed the puzzle
This is how the claw is presented to you when it is looted from Arvel the Swift's body, and here is the source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqMXJ3AlL7A [Embed]
a playthrough dated the day after the game came out. This is the way the claw is presented to you in the menus, and assuming that you didn't know about the rotate mechanic, this will be the default position the claw is displayed in, since the camera would not have been adjusted. If it was, you would have to have done it, and you would therefore know that items can be rotated. The three symbols are very pronounced in this position. There are obvious symbols on the claw which beg to be investigated further. Here's where the logic of "let's try to rotate the camera so that I can get a better view" comes in.

The same guy used this logic to figure out the puzzle in around 20 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7us2lmrNS1k

>>387392171
Not gonna lie, I looked up the answer from a walkthrough

>>387392720
>The same guy used this logic to figure out the puzzle in around 20 seconds.
he says right there that there was an intermission while he was looking for a solution, and then eventually figured it out and resumed the recording
it was clearly more than 20 seconds

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>>387392790

>>387392832
and then he even starts pressing the wrong buttons to try to rotate again, since there isn't a legend on the screen showing how to rotate

>>387392720
>no timestamp
>open video, 13 minutes
lol

>activate outer
>activate middle
>activate inner
>activate outer
>activate middle
>activate inner
>open door
You'll cowards don't even speedrun

>>387392496
>>387392632
>>387392638
>game in inventory is part of a puzzle or part of its solution
>the game needs to tell me to inspect it
You know what other games did this, not telling you to inspect an item you obviously have to inspect?
Syberia.
CSI games
Countelss of games similar to Myst and the likes
Hidden Objects game featuring any sort of inventory with puzzles
Any fucking game featuring an inventory and items you have to use in specific puzzles.
Yet no one ever had issues with this, or when they had, it's part of the GOOD gameplay, cause you know, puzzles require YOU to figure out things, not being told to you.

>>387392950
It's anti-Bethesda shitposting's new fad now that they can't claim Fallout 4 was a failure.

>>387392171
WAIT A MINUTE, THAT CLAW

>>387392995
Bethesda almost deserves it though.. they sure aren't perfect. I really enjoy skyrim though.

>>387392950
Syberia tells you in two ways how to inspect an item if you count the manual.
The word 'inspect' probably isn't anywhere in vanilla Skyrim.

>>387393048
>You will need to look at the screen to play this video game

>>387392950
but why is it okay, accepted, dismissed, that there isn't a simple legend on the menu, along with "equip" and "drop" for "inspect"?

why is the lack of it a pro, and homage to old games, an innovative but intuitive solution, a real brain teaser?

>>387393083
>you will need to strawman in order to have a chance at debating ITT

>>387393140
>why is the lack of it a pro, and homage to old games, an innovative but intuitive solution, a real brain teaser?
Because it exposes brainlets.

>>387392950
Those are puzzle/adventure games designed around inspecting everything. Skyrim is an action RPG. Apples and oranges.

This was absurd

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>it took him more than 2 seconds to consider you might be able to look at the fucking claw.

>people are saying that this wasn't explained
actually wtf, I thought this was bad game design because you expected it and it did nothing other than attempt to justify the needless ability to rotate every item in your inventory. Also it got old very fast.

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>>387393262
>Cool game. Dunno what to do here tho.
>Guess I'll go into my inventory and see if I can inspect my items and rotate them despite there being no menu prompt

The only reason I never found out you could rotate inspect Items is because the UI was so fucking terrible, I didn't want to leave it open longer than a few seconds. Fucking console optimized shit.

>>387392171
It was obvious to anyone with a brain to look at the claw that is obviously the key for the lock and you faggots should be applauding Bethesda for not hand holding the player through such a simple puzzle by having the game just outright tell you the solution.

>>387392250
What was the difference?

>>387393140
Giving that no one reads the manual, skips tutorials or long explanations, every command in the game should be a mystery regardless of if it is explained or not.
Point is not if it's ok or not for "inspect" to be there, rather that it should be obvious you can inspect an item that you're supposed to use in a puzzle if the use for that item is not immediately obvious.

>>387393184
If in an RPG featuring no jump button you find a small "platforming" section which does require to jump, won't you somehow try to jump?
Or you need to be told that too?
It's not the game genre, is the context, which in this case is a fucking puzzle element to use in a fucking puzzle, no need to tel you to inspect the item when the context makes it obvious you should at least try to.

>>387393419
>go up to door
>navi prompts you about needing to find a key

>>387392307
So does m1 rotate or equip?

>>387393709
both!

>>387393691
>Point is not if it's ok or not for "inspect" to be there, rather that it should be obvious you can inspect an item that you're supposed to use in a puzzle if the use for that item is not immediately obvious.
Arvel's notes literally say that the claw is the key to the puzzle, brainlets are just too stupid to read things in an RPG.

>>387393419
>Character specifically mentions that the Claw works with some kind of door
>Shortly afterwards find a door with markings on it and a claw shaped hole
>

>>387392171
> tfw you started researching and exploring local murals and carvings on the walls in search for clue
> tfw half an hour later you see thread on /v/ with the clue to rotate the claw
man that was so fucking shit

>>387392171
Dude there's only like 3 symbols per ring. If you were retarded enough to not figure out you were supposed to look at the claw AND even more retarded to not just consult a guide, or forum, or fucking ask here after you gave up in a fit of retardation then there were only 27 possible combinations. I'll grant you the animation is slow as shit so if you got it right on the very last guess it could probably take up to 15-20minutes or so but even still, you could brute force your way through this as an absolute last resort. It still would require you to be exceptionally retarded but I guess you can't help how you're born.

>>387393810
I know, my point is it doesn't matter if it's told you or not, it's an object required in a puzzle and its use is not immediately obvious, logic tells you to inspect you, regardless of the info the game gives or doesn't give.

>>387393851
>don't read the journal of the guy you take the claw from
Modern """gamers""" in a nutshell.

>>387393691
If it's a RPG where jumping has never been used or explained, I'd assume I'd need to make bridges or solve some plot flag so I can walk over the areas I need to get past.
>>387393810
To me that's just explaining that the claw is a literal key that you hold in the palm of your hand, nothing about it having a code on it.

>>387393992
>To me that's just explaining that the claw is a literal key that you hold in the palm of your hand, nothing about it having a code on it.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvel%27s_Journal
>My fingers are trembling. The Golden Claw is finally in my hands, and with it, the power of the ancient Nordic heroes. That fool Lucan Valerius had no idea that his favorite store decoration was actually the key to Bleak Falls Barrow.
>Now I just need to get to the Hall of Stories and unlock the door. The legend says there is a test that the Nords put in place to keep the unworthy away, but that "When you have the golden claw, the solution is in the palm of your hands."
You are literally sub 100 IQ if you read that and didn't think to inspect the claw.

>>387393934
I did end up brute forcing it, I had no idea how to solve this puzzle until a year later.
It's babby's first puzzle yet I couldn't figure it out because Todd decided that a fucking menu prompt would take up too much screen or something.

>>387393934
whether or not someone was able to solve the puzzle is not the question

the question is, what is the puzzle
>the puzzle is to read the journal to figure out you need to inspect the claw to open a combination door
or
>the puzzle is to figure out how to rotate the claw

if it's not the latter, then why is the solution to that problem being praised for not being a documented feature of the menu, while every other mechanic is detailed

>>387392832
The annotation was because he apparently left the dungeon without the Dragonstone and had to go back for it. Besides, he straight up says
>pretty basic puzzle. Took me a minute, but I did start looking around and I was like, that looking at the claw) seemed like the most logical thing to do
Plus, when he gets to the claw, it literally takes him 10 seconds, 0:13-0:23, to figure out how to rotate it. Furthermore, if you look at his previous videos, there are a bunch of people who say that this guy is straight up retarded at RPGs, didn't know how to level up, and skipped all the good loot. This in addition to forgetting to get the item he came for in the first place. If a guy like that could figure out that the claw could be rotated in only 10 seconds, I don't see why figuring it out on your own is so difficult.
>>387392889
12:38-12:40

>>387393992
>If it's a RPG where jumping has never been used or explained, I'd assume I'd need to make bridges or solve some plot flag so I can walk over the areas I need to get past.
>lenghty description/explanation of how the claw is the "key" to the puzzle somehow means the claw is a literal key
You are just retarded...if it's a puzzle and it has a key, it's obvious the key is not literal, otherwise it wouldn't be a puzzle but just a locked mechanism needing a key.

>>387392171
i still can't believe there are people alive RIGHT NOW that didn't get this immediately, i didn't even get that it was a puzzle since it was so easy

>>387394115
>I don't see why figuring it out on your own is so difficult.
but why is rotating the claw what has to be figured out, rather than figuring out to look at the claw

>>387394064
>>didn't think to inspect the claw.
>Hey let me just read the developer's mind to know that there is an undocumented feature that is used only for this specific puzzle and will do nothing but waste time every time one of these doors appears.

>>387393980
Fucking this.
People are too stupid to actually read the fucking clues the game gives you and don't have every single answer to every puzzle ham-fistedly shoved into their face then complain that it's "Bad Game Design".

Worst part is that I see people complaining on here about games hand holding you and just outright giving you answers (in fact people complain about this with Skyrim specifically because of the quest markers, constantly mewling for a return of the detailed journal and removal of quest markers from Morrowind). Then when a puzzle that actually requires them to read stuff in the game and solve a puzzle without just being outright told the answer they fucking bitch about it being too hard.

These people don't want the quest markers removed in favour of detailed written directions, they'd just get lost constantly then complain that it was bad game design.

>>387392171
I had REmake to thank for examining items in detail, so this was like second nature for me.

>>387394212
Because if it was told to you that items can be rotated but this function is completely useless except for ONE item, telling you so would be giving you the solution.

>>387393641
no button prompt to inspect items

>>387394079
>you reach a door with an engraving of a quest item given to you by an NPC
>the engraving appears to have slots to insert said quest item thus implying the quest item acts as a sort of key
>insert the quest item does not open the door
>notice strange runes above door
>notice the runes are movable
>doesn't proceed to think the runes are part of the lock and need to be arranged in the proper manner
>further fails to consider looking at the fucking quest item to see if it bears any clues to unlocking the door

RPG 101

People like you are why video games become casualized.

>>387394228
>gameplay documented in-universe with clues
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY DIDN'T A VOICED CHARACTER TELL ME THIS DIRECTLY?
I bet BotW was fun for you.

>>387394289
but isn't the book what is telling you the solution?
why is the undocumented button press coming into play?

>>387394261
>anons critiquing game for not introducing rotate mechanic in any way
>hand holding

No one is bitching about the puzzle itself, retard.

Brainlet genocide when?

>>387393641
pretty sure you have to actually mouse over and drag the thing around instead of just moving one of the two sticks you have

>>387394324
What retard puts the code for a door on the key? If you're going to do that, don't have the code in the first place.

>>387394394
This is Bethesda we're talking about here

>>387394289
>game has menu prompt for rotating/teaches you how in the first 5 mins of the game
>this somehow ruins puzzles later on in the game
k

>>387392171
the funny thing is you only have to move each ring twice
there's no complexity at all

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>>387394324
you're missing the point
how is this menu, with "equip" and "drop" button prompts for available actions on the item, somehow considered grander, less casual, truly hardcore, for maximum fans of the genre, no posers allowed, ultimate rpg experience, somehow considered better to you, for lacking "[M1] Inspect item"

>>387394212
Because literally anyone with common sense would try to see if there was a way to inspect the claw further to see the symbols better. Like I said, in the default camera angle the game positions the claw in, there are very obviously symbols there. The fact that there are three of them is also very obvious. The fact that the door also has three symbols is also very obvious. The fact that from that camera angle, you can make out animal symbols, symbols which are also on the door, is very obvious. So therefore, it is logical to say that "Let's try to look at these symbols in greater detail. Can I do that?" And someone who multiple people said is retarded at Skyrim, doesn't know how to level up, and did not pick up the item he came to the dungeon for even though he's playing with quest markers, answered that question in 10 seconds.

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Wh-what? Am I really reading this tripe right? Have you fuckers ever played RPG games with actual puzzles and problem solving? Was Skyrim your first RPG? You sincerely believe rotating an object to find the answer like a tabloid's upsidedown answers to last week's crossword puzzle is clever game design? Then do it again times 30? You chuckelfucks read too much into this schlock.

>>387394371
You really need the game to explain that you can rotate items? Fucking seriously?

Alright, on all the loading screens did when the model popped up did you not ever touch it with your mouse and realize you could rotate it? If you did then why is it such a leap to assume you could rotate items in the inventory screen?

>>387394519
if anyone with common sense would try to see if there was a way to inspect the claw, then why are you offended by the idea of it saying what button on the menu is what allows you to inspect the claw?

>>387394551
>Was Skyrim your first RPG?
No, they're true RPG oldfags who started with Oblivion! ;^)

>>387394519
>in the default camera angle the game positions the claw in, there are very obviously symbols there
Unless, of course, you grab the item in 1/4 of a second and don't even look at it because who gives a fuck what it looks like.

>>387394551
>play a new game for first time
>immediately try everything I've learned from ever past game
yeah it's not like the 6 previous games didn't have this and whatnot.

>>387394590
I'm not sure what you're talking about; you've probably got me mixed up with another anon. I was disputing the claim that I only knew the markings were obvious because I completed the puzzle already by providing the perspective of someone who didn't, and noting that the markings were obvious because the default camera positioning of the claw makes it clear that there are markings on the claw.

>>387394551
I'm not saying it's hard. I'm saying it's pointless and stupid.

>>387394656
You could easily bruteforce it in a couple seconds, though. What does it matter if it was done before or not in previous games? It's functionally insipid.

>>387394332
the book is giving you clues about what item to use, not the solution.
finding out how that item is used(rotating it) is the solution.
Both parts are portion of the puzzle.

>>387394472
it does if rotating items is only useful on ONE item in a puzzle and rotating it is the solution to the puzzle, it's literally giving you the solution

>>387394551
It's even more retarded than you think it is. They aren't even complaining about the puzzle, they're complaining because they couldn't figure out how to rotate an item on the inventory screen. Fucking unbelievable.

We're dealing with the kinds of people who need the game to tell them WASD moves your character.

>>387394764
>We're dealing with the kinds of people who need the game to tell them WASD moves your character.
But it has to be spoken by a character, because fuck reading. Reading is for gays.

They are the reason Fallout 4 has a voiced protagonist.

>>387394576
You have to click and drag so no
>you can turn your character so why is it such a leap to assume you can't turn objects?
That's how shit your logic is.

>>387392575
>wah muh path finders
>fuckin hand holding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhwddNQSWQ

>>387394576
>Alright, on all the loading screens did when the model popped up did you not ever touch it with your mouse and realize you could rotate it?
why would you just randomly press buttons during a loading screen?
just be patient while the game loads

>>387394656
actually i believe redguard did let you rotate items

>>387394754
>finding out how that item is used(rotating it) is the solution.
you considering pressing random buttons in a menu till something that isn't listed happens to be a good puzzle?
perhaps we should have randomly pressed scroll lock to finish a puzzle

>>387394906
>can*
Fuck it, better just kms

>>387394764
Yes, how dare these people not know how to do something that is never used for 99.99% of the game and is documented in no way for a nonsensical puzzle.

>>387394948
>why would you just randomly press buttons during a loading screen?
>just be patient while the game loads
Why would you randomly move right stick on a controller in the inventory?
Just be patient and use the left one.

>>387395034
>Why would you randomly move right stick on a controller in the inventory?
i have no idea, why?

I seriously didnt know the answer was on the claw until this thread. I always just tried random combos, assuming that two symbols wouldnt repeat. It takes about 60 seconds to solve this way if you are unlucky, i always thought that was the puzzle, it never even bothered me.

>>387394754
>first time playing Skyrim
>game teaches me how to rotate items
>get to this puzzle
>"oh this is the only time in this game where this mechanic will ever be useful"
k

I'm sure you knew that the physic log kill on the Scamp in Oblivion was the only time that was gonna be used too

>>387395061
>i always thought that was the puzzle, it never even bothered me.
Then you're probably not a butthurt Obsidiot still shitposting about Bethesda seven years after New Vegas came out.

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>>387394634
The camera angle is always the same until you change it. Two videos later, when he interacts with the door, the claw is in the same camera position as it was when he first found it. If you didn't look at the item before, you will now, especially since the journal told you the claw was relevant to the door puzzle, and you have nothing else concrete to work with. The symbols are still obviously there, and in fact, the lighting of the door room seems to make them even more pronounced. I even checked the resolution of both videos to see if they were different, and the answer was no, they were both at 480p.

Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?

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>>387395140

>>387392171
>cant find stones for a spin the stones password
>just try it in a logical fashion with brute force
(1111, 1112,1113 etc)

>>387395034
Why would you not intuitively assume you could rotate 3d items in your inventory? I mean they put them right there so you can look at their graphics, you mean to tell me you assume they will only allow you to view them from one angle? How are people this dumb?

>>387395196
It's good that it was designed in a way that you could sort of make out symbols. It was bad that there was nothing on the menu that told you how to look at the item in greater detail.

>>387395312
>I mean they put them right there so you can look at their graphics
considering the track record, could it not have been that they put them right there because they didn't want to make hand painted icons for them again?

>>387392171
There's a journal you get ON THE BODY of the guy you get the key from. It says "the answer is in the palm of your hand"

If you can't solve a riddle so fucking simple you are a mega casual and should stick to candy crush

>>387395196
>Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?
No voice in your ear telling you to rotate the item to solve the "puzzle." Reading is for fags.

>>387395396
>Reading is for fags.
but there better not be any damn words to read in the menus, that should be PURE random button mashing, boy howdy

>>387395312
Not to mention that you can also rotate items in the loading screens when there is literally nothing better for you to do and one of the loading screens has a hint that actually does specifically say that you can rotate items in your inventory to look at them.

>>387395140
I really dont like bethesda games, the oversaturation of loot ruins it for me. Its like, i could be playing a cool rpg, but instead im playing a hobo dumpster diving simulator.

>>387395196
I know the claw is interacting with the door when the game shows it going into the holes and turning. I have no reason to look at it in my inventory at that point as the claw is clearly not the problem, the rings are. So I looked around the area for the answer to the rings, because it is retarded to think the code would be stamped on the claw, making the code useless.
>Plus, it's a strange item, and a quest item to boot. Why would you not look at it?
Because I don't care about how it looks, just if it works or how much I can sell it for.

>>387395454
Fallout 4 is literally the only one where you need to pick up junk, and even then it's only really if you want to engage in the settlement minigame thing. So many people assume that because each knife and fork and plate etc. is its own object you should still be playing it like an old-school RPG where you just hoover up everything in case you need it later.

>>387395454
I actually like that you can loot everything. It's realistic, you kill some asshole so of course you can take his clothes and weapons, they didn't just suddenly vanish into the ether when he died.

>>387392171
>Fucking casuals! They need their hand held with the most trivial bullshit. Walking tutorials, shooting tutorials. WAIT A MINUTE THAT CARD!
>Where does it say I can rotate items in the inventory? Just some vague as fuck journal entry? How was I supposed to solve this? IT'S TOO VAGUE THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO WOW

>>387395389
>don't play a lot of rpg's
>skyrim was my first rpg
>didn't know how to into rpg's
I looked up a guide when I couldn't figure it out and I felt so stupid afterwards

>>387395581
how to spot the losing argument
poster count doesn't increase

God, please tell me there's a DSP video where he solves this in 10 seconds just to blow out the assholes of these brainlets.

>>387395443
This is on the level of people complaining that a game didnt tell you to use left stick to move.

>>387395672
how rekt do you have to be to keep replying to nobody

>>387395705
I'm not certain, you're still giving me (You)s.

>>387395681
the game does, in fact, tell you how to move
and jump, and open the menu, and equip items, and consume potions
but looking at items is a step too far

>>387395745
ah yes, the famous (you) upvotes
enjoy them

>>387395681
>Moving
>Necessary to do anything in almost every game
>Rotating objects in inventory
>Usually only in the game so the 3D modelers can show how pretty their items look.

>>387395637
One could almost say it was never an argument to begin with.

>>387394764
And here I was thinking the big "PRESS SQUARE TO RELOAD" prompts in every CoD game that you can't fucking disable were there just o piss me off. It turns out there actually are people that wont think to press the reload button after shooting their gun without an onscreen prompt.

>>387395792
yeah i mean it says it right on the tin
bethesda game? of course it's bad design, there isn't a debate

Isn't there quite literally an "inspect item" button on the inventory UI?

The one that brings you to an empty screen where it zooms in on the item and lets you rotate it?

Isn't the claw's default position showing it's palm (and thus, the solution) anyways?

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>>387392171
>Todds Skyrim pitch
>"Skyrim will have puzzles like this so this item rotation feature is necessary!!"
>Literally the only thing in the game that needs item rotation
>Literally one of 2 kinds of door opening "puzzles" in the game

All those features that were removed from the previous games were totally worth it for this!

>>387395835
>Isn't there quite literally an "inspect item" button on the inventory UI?
no, there isn't, you need to press buttons randomly in order to access the feature

>Isn't the claw's default position showing it's palm (and thus, the solution) anyways?
yes

>>387392171
there's also the fact that those are easy as shit to just guess
It's usually just one rotation per ring, or maybe two

ITT: idiots desperately try to defend the fact that they were too stupid to try rotating the item

When even the millions of normie casuals who bought the game had no issue with it "DUDE skyrim is the best game ever!"

>>387395569
Its not that i hoover up everything, its just the constant minigame of deciding what to leave and what to take is mentally exhausting, or looking in every little corner of every empty building so you dont miss anything important.

Bethesda games are just these intricately crafted, detailed worlds, that i just cannot force myself to give a shit about. Something just seems off about their games, i cant quite put my finger on it.

>>387395569
>>387395571
i think his issue is more with the fact that the game throws tons of "loot" at you that is garbage because of skyrims horrible level scaling and loot lists.

>>387395850
>Literally one of 2 kinds of door opening "puzzles" in the game
looks like someone didnt explore too much :^)

>>387395870
So you don't even need to rotate the item to solve the puzzle. And this thread is entirely pointless?

>>387395939
>Bethesda games are just these intricately crafted, detailed worlds, that i just cannot force myself to give a shit about. Something just seems off about their games, i cant quite put my finger on it.
The environments are intricately crafted but the characters and storylines are almost always painted with broad stroked that are shitty.

Also you can get mods that give you a price to weight ratio on the loot so you're not lugging around a 20 pound hunk of crap that will sell for 5 gold.

>>387395987
The point of this thread is to expose idiots who refuse to read notes in RPGs.

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This map.

>>387395850
You don't need to rotate it though. You can clearly see all 3 symbols from it's default inventory position.

Multiple screenshots have already been posted in this very thread, thus BTFO'ing all the fucking morons who didn't understand one of the most casual puzzles ever made

You guys are the reason why Fallout 4 was even MORE dumbed down than skyrim

>get golden claw
>get journal
>the KEY is in the PALM of your hand
>get to door see key hole
>look at palm of claw
>open door
???? where do the problems come up?

>>387395520
>it is retarded to think the code would be stamped on the claw
In terms of logic, yes. In terms of the game, no, since the journal told you that once you have the golden claw, the answer to the door puzzle would be in the palm of your hands. Ergo, the answer to the door puzzle is in your possession. And what's the only thing in your possession that has to do with the door? The claw. In your scenario, you know this because you had already used the claw to interact with the door. Therefore, the claw might give clues as to what the answer to the door puzzle is. That's when you go into your inventory and you look at it again.

Yes, it's strange and illogical that a redundant code would be on the key. But part of playing a video game is adapting to how it works. And this game, no matter how implausible the actual scenario is, is no different.

>>387396060
Never played the game but this looks pretty cool, what's the matter?

>>387396070
>You guys are the reason why Fallout 4 was even MORE dumbed down than skyrim
HATE /v/

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>>387395907
3 symbols is the minimum required to make a puzzle like this. There's only 6 combinations possible so a monkey could figure it out.

At the rate we're going Fallout 4 is already no more an RPG than FarCry3 was.

>>387395681
>press every key on keyboard, oh the W key goes forward
>this is typical in 100% of PC games

>go into inventory
>press every key
>nothing rotates
>move mouse
>doesn't rotate
>game hasn't mentioned rotating at all
>mechanic isn't in 90% of PC games and wasn't in previous ES games

>>387396078
>get journal

Uh, you lost me there

>>387396128
Nah, in Far Cry 3 you couldn't back out of missions. In Fallout 4 you have three ways to say yes and a "No, later" dialogue.

>>387396149
>go into inventory
>mash keys like a mong
>see the pattern pointed directly at your face
>have a light chuckle
>open door
fixed it for ya

>>387396128
Isn't there way more than 6 combos?

There's 3 symbols per ring, and there's 3 rings, so any combination of those

>>387395870
>randomly
There are only a couple of keys it could logically be
>fkeys are out of the question
>keys that already have bindings to them are out
>number keys are used for shortcuts if i remember correctly
>the arrangement of the keys would have to follow a form of directional compass
>should all of the possible working keys fail you have a mouse

>>387395987
the point of the thread is "why is rotating items left undocumented"
you'll see plenty of people clamouring about how genius they feel after solving the "puzzle"

they're quite proud of this sole accomplishment of theirs

Stop arguing about rotating. Rotating isn't even necessary for the puzzle, you are just exposing your own retardation here.

>>387392171
If this isn't a troll thread it is the reason why games continue to be dumbed down so brainlets can feel smart when they follow the arrow and get an achievement for it.

>>387396105
The main reason I didn't look at the claw is because of the puzzle a few minutes earlier where you have to look around the room to find the solution for rotating pillars. I assumed this puzzle would be the same where the solution is in the area, as that makes more sense to me.

>>387396248
>>keys that already have bindings to them are out
are they? you're not going to try any of those?
guess you're not going to be able to solve this clever menu puzzle ;)

>>387392171
>Get told that the claw is the key to the door
>get to door
>it has a combination lock
>open inventory
>rotate right stick
>object moves
WOOOW

>>387396269
You don't need to rotate the claw to see all 3 symbols on it's palm.

>>387396054
>The environments are intricately crafted but the characters and storylines are almost always painted with broad stroked that are shitty.
I think thats it exactly, combat is meh, story is meh, invariably spend 90% of gameplay in empty building looking for valuables.

Weight management isnt my issue with their loot system, its the tediously looking around for valuables rather than actually progressing in the game that bothers me. Im not even saying its a bad system, its very detailed, lots if people really enjoy it. For me personally it makes the games so unfun that they are unplayable.

I did love morrowind when i was younger, because i viewed the open world through the eyes of childlike wonder.

>>387396354
and?

>>387396326
>menu is a puzzle
cool joke

>>387396109
Overall the map is poorly laid out. It forces you to do a lot of traversal and the "gates" feel poorly positioned/implemented.

>>387396380
everyone in this thread saying brainlet seems to be serious about the menu being a puzzle

>>387396301
I beat Arena - Morrowind without looking anything up
The reason I got stuck on this is because the game doesn't mention rotating anywhere and never introduces you to the mechanic. Fuck off.

>>387396376
>start up new save
>ignore picking up anything that isnt slearly worth a few hundred gold
>by level 4 have 4k gold to buy whatever else is needed
if you actually spend your time searching every little crevice of every shithole shack you come across, you have autism

>>387396379
The whole argument about rotating is baseless. The puzzle doesn't require rotating.

>>387396229
Yeah true, they can repeat. So its like 27 or something.

>>387396376
Morrowind was my introduction to their games and open world games as a whole, I'm pretty sure. I still get a kick out of them because I'm an explorefag and Bethesda's environment artists are some of the best in the business, so I just wander around looking for neat shit and wishing I could make things that look natural in the CK.

>>387396427
THE ROTATION IS NOT NEEDED. THE SYMBOLS ARE VISIBLE BY DEFAULT.

>>387396476
so why is it a positive aspect that the menu does not tell you how to rotate?

>>387396417
There might be some misinterpretation because I cannot fathom someone genuinely thinking that

>>387396427
see
>>387396476

>>387396070
Not sure how you extrapolated that from my post, but more power to you.

>>387392171
Everything leading up to the Golden Claw is fine, they even dropped a hint within a journal, but the ability to find out that the model itself could be rotated isn't exactly intuitive.

>>387396512
no, in the previous thread even, apparently figuring out the mechanic to rotate is considered a riddle more than the fact that the claw has anything on it

>>387392240
Not op, but when I first played Skyrim I played on such low quality that looking on the claw didn't help, you could barely understand what was on it.

>>387393980
Game even tells you to read the journal in the quest description if i don't remember wrong

>>387394551
I was just assuming this entire thread is being ironic I'm still going to assume that this is what is going on here. People are just making jokes clearly.

>>387396543
that may have been a jab at bethesda

>>387396539
Fortunately the glyphs are facing you by default.

>>387396229
If youre retarded and think they would use the same symbol twice for the solution then yeah.

>>387396618
some of them do

>>387396510
Why does it matter if you never need to rotate anything?

You can rotate the models on the loading screens too, and the game never tells you, is that also a flaw?

>>387396556
>have shit hardware
>blame bethesda
get a job or get back over the wall amigo

>>387396427
>The reason I got stuck on this is because the game doesn't mention rotating anywhere and never introduces you to the mechanic.
You get a journal which basically tells you to look at the item you just got. The item appears in the inventory and the default position shows the symbols simmilar to the ones on the door. You would have to be an absolute retard to assume you have to push a button to rotate it instead of using the mouse.

>>387396269
Because rotating items isnt an essential feature to anything in the game, including the claw puzzle.

>>387396476
>>387396520
Great. I sure love brute forcing a puzzle and having no idea how to actually complete it every time.
Now fucking leave.

>>387396543
You don't need to rotate. The claw has it's palm showing in the inventory by default.

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The only reason i knew you could rotate items was because i saw Todd himself sell the game live on GameSpot show or something, telling us how rich of a feature rotation is. Despite the fact everything else in the game has been cut. Like the stats reduced to 3. The awfull perk system. Less/more boring spells. Less separate armour items.

Todd sold his rotation garbage to hide the fact the games keep being dumbed down more and more.

>>387396672
>Why does it matter
oh it's an easter egg now?
wowieee

>>387396734
that was the quakecon leaked footage
it's demonstrated that rotating the claw is the intended solution

>>387396734
>hiding streamlining
Nigger, do you think hardcore gamers make up more than a fraction of the 12 million Skyrim players or whatever it's up to now? We could have another Morrowind if you'd be happy with it still looking like 2001.

>>387396730
Why would you need to brute force? The claw shows the 3 symbols in it's default inventory position.

The only reason why it wouldn't is if you somehow managed to accidentally rotate it beforehand, which I'm almost certain is fixed by exiting and entering the inventory

>>387396730
low quality bait

>>387396472
I think these games really do trigger some type of ocd/autism in me, i try to play like you, invariably end up sperging out in some empty shack.

>>387396734
This.

The muh "YOU CAN ROTATE INVENTORY AN SHIIET" feature was heavily advertised.

Does the game even use this feature on anything else except this claw puzzle?

>>387396734
You don't need to rotate the claw, it's palm and the 3 door symbols on it are visible by default

>>387396883
No

>>387396427
You dont even need the claw, how do you get stuck on a lock with only 6 realistic combinations?

>>387396883
There's a few claw puzzles but that's about it. There were those numbers you could find on the bug jars but I don't think there was any real reason for them.

>>387396696
Except you have to click and drag, nigger.
The 'pushing buttons to try rotating it' is against the retards saying "WOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WASD MOVES YOU???"
Why the fuck should I have to click and drag on accident in the menu to discover a mechanic?

>>387396883
>The muh "YOU CAN ROTATE INVENTORY AN SHIIET" feature was heavily advertised.
The NPC working the sawmill also got cheers from the crowd during that presentation. It's literally built for normies.

>>387396816
Hardcore doesn't matter. They still could have retained complexity because the game sold on its good looks and premise. The average chad wasn't excited to have Mana/Health/Stamina, he was excited to hurl fireballs and wave a sword in an open world game.

It would've sold just fine being morrowind like anyway. Todd just needed to lie from an other angle. Instead of pretending the game was an RPG, he should've pretended an RPG game was an Action game it was.

>>387396734
>>387396791
>>387396883
https://youtu.be/zvmdT-Sl7zw?t=22m1s

This is where Todd demonstrated item rotation on the golden claw.

>>387396883
It doesn't use it period. It's a purely cosmetic feature not needed for any quest.

You CAN rotate it and look at the symbols from another angle, or flip it however you please, but they're already visible even if you don't do that.

>>387396510
If they didnt let you rotate items, would you complain about it?

>>387396993
>Instead of pretending the game was an RPG, he should've pretended an RPG game was an Action game it was.
And that would have burned the 11 million dudebros and turned them off the next Bethesda game, instead of burning the 1 million hardcore gamers who will inevitably pick up the next game anyway, even if they pirate it.

>>387396982
>Except you have to click and drag
yes, and?

>Why the fuck should I have to click and drag
Is this your first PC game?

>>387396982
You don't need to rotate anything anyways. It's purely cosmetic and all the positions reset after you leave the inventory.

Why does it matter?

>>387396898
Yes, Todd actually ruined the only 'puzzle' in the game with his live pitch. He sold the idea that alot of items will be needed to be able to rotate and that's gonna be a significant mechanic in the game for potential answers.

it wasn't. And at some point they rotated the claw bottom first so you even wouldn't need to rotate it, making his live presentation all the more bullshit.

>>387392720
>>387392171
Too bad that's literally the only puzzle in the game like that that is clever. You never find another one. It's only in this one heavily scripted dungeon they put effort into. Then it just repeats in random locations.

So fucking poor.

>>387397060
i complain because i watched this >>387397000
it's stupid that it's a feature that was demonstrated on stage, and the devekioer intended solution to a puzzle, but the menu is missing the legend for what buttons to press in order to do such a thing

>>387397063
Is this yours?
Count up how many PC games let you do this and weigh it against the amount that don't.
Now count how many of those games where they directly tell you/show you the rotation mechanic, unlike Skyrim.

>devs give gamers an ounce of credit for their intellectual capacity
>gamers still REEEEE six years later that it wasn't handheld enough
I weep for future generations of gamers whose most in-depth experiences will be Telltale games.

>>387397157
There's a few cool puzzles in the DLC involving steam valves, simple calculations, water levels, and moving platforms.

>>387397248
games will be as poor as your argument

>>387393419
IIRC the PC version of Skyrim didn't have the ability to rotate items in your inventory and was fixed in the first minor patch about 2-3 weeks after launch.
Not defending anyone but from reading the thread so far it seems like a lot of people have forgotten that.

>>387397271
please explain how this "claw puzzle" is anything more than a completely simple straightforward puzzle designed for even normies to understand

The fact that there's people in this thread saying it was bullshit boggles my fucking mind

>>387397271
There is no argument. The solution is laid out for you but reading a few lines of text was too much, so more than half a decade later you're still clutching your dislocated anus.

>>387397000
I think i saw a diffrent video where he brought even more attention to the mechanic.

The show had a host and todd was on the stage.

>>387397312
You don't need to rotate the claw to solve the puzzle. All 3 icons are visible in the claw's default position.

Maybe if you were playing at fucking 480p resolution you couldn't see them, but that's your own fault and wouldn't be solved by rotating.

>>387392171
Its like most of you dont even play games.

>>387397330
>please explain how this "claw puzzle" is anything more than a completely simple straightforward puzzle designed for even normies to understand
it isn't
please explain how it's good game design to leave a feature of the menu undocumented

>>387397342
i knew the solution before the game released, and that is not the problem
why do you fervently defend this development issue with such a gosh darn simple solution?

>>387397417
why should it be documented?

>>387397474
is it better not to be?

>>387397312
As far as I know, the PC version had rotation at the earliest 5 days after the game was released.

This video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmgXsutPTk4
is dated Nov 16, 2011, and from 11:11 to 11:16, he zooms in and rotates the claw.

>>387397225
Oblivion had the mouse rotating your character in the menu. It also had you clicking and dragging the map to move around it. None of this was told to you yet people were smart enough to figure it out and didn't cry about it for 6 years.

>>387397417
Why does rotating items in the menu have anything to do with good game design when you never need to do it to perform any task in the game

>>387397417
>please explain how it's good game design to leave a feature of the menu undocumented
FUCKING NINTENDO WHY WAS WAVEDASHING UNDOCUMENTED IN MELEE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>387397502
people have always cried about oblivion's menus being poor
people cry about skyrim's menus being poor

>>387397330
The puzzle is easy
The lack of in game acknowledgement to the player that a mechanic exists to help you figure out said puzzle is bullshit

None of us got stuck on this puzzle because we either looked it up or forced our way through trying every combination.

Easy puzzle =/= Excuse for poor game design

>>387397525
it's the developer intended solution to the "puzzle"

do you believe this feature should be exclusive to hamhands that press buttons randomly, and people that watch prerelease footage?

>>387397502
Cause the expecations that you could do that was already in the average players consciousness as most games have those features.

Looking at items models up close for answers isn't a common feature.

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You are stupidest mother fuckers on this planet and I sincerely hope none of you have offspring
Oh wait you can't anyway because there's no fucking button prompts.

>>387397592
>None of us got stuck on this puzzle because we either looked it up or forced our way through trying every combination.
Or we did the intended thing and solved it using the clue in the journal, you fucking subliterate trash.

>>387397621
cool post
cooler poster

you win all of the internets today

>>387397592
>help you figure out said puzzle

The claw's default position has it's palm and all 3 key icons facing directly towards the "camera". You don't need to rotate it. It wouldn't even help, all you'd be getting is a slightly different angle to show the exact same thing.

>>387397540
Yeah, menus in both of those games were console shit.

Having scroll down lists are the bottom of the barrel of the menu world. Unintuitive, limiting, you need to read names instead of just glance at an item or hover over to determine whether it's what you want.

Literally hitler tier stuff.

>>387397535
Wavedashing was accidental, the developers just didn't bother to remove it because they figured it wasn't detrimental to the game. It's not the same as intentionally putting a mechanic essential to completing the game in and then not mentioning it anywhere.

>>387397630
why do you call people illiterate when you so staunchly defend there being less words in the game, like one on the menu to tell you which button inspects an item

>complain that modern TES is too casual
>complain about this.

Id hate to see you fucks in games like Killer 7

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>>387396561
After seeing legit threads praising MW2's story and characters, I'd have to say the overton window for Poe's Law has shifted far into shit taste territory.

>>387397417
Because its a non issue, if you cant automatically assume you can click and drag large 3d items in your inventory, then you are retarded and dont deserve any video games. Forsaking intuitive design for button promps for every fucking thing is not good design. Its your opinion there should be a button prompt, besause you are retarded and couldnt figure something out. Instead of accepting this fact, you have to bitch and moan and say something must be changed just because you had a hard time accomplishing a simple task. The more they pander to people like you, the more dumbed down everything gets, they will be afraid to add any features because little retarded jimmy might not be able to figure them out.

I just fucking guessed. There's only 27 possible combinations, that takes like 1 minute to try them all out.

>>387397502
Good thing viewing my character isn't required for anything.
Clicking and dragging a map when it gives you a fucking pointer is a standard.
Gee I wonder why no one bitched about those, really makes you meme.

>>387397630
OR we watched Todd give the answer to the only puzzle in the game before the game was released and never had the chance to test our casual levels.

>>387397592
I didn't look it up or bruteforce, I read the book from the dead elf then I looked at the key and put in the correct combo

>>387397540
Oblivion's menu for PC is fine but Skyrim's was shit since it was designed with consoles in mind. The items model was still available and it should have been obvious to click and drag it to look at it. Thinking you had to push a button to rotate it is fucking retarded.

>>387397746
> you have to bitch and moan and say something must be changed just because you had a hard time accomplishing a simple task.
but i watched the prerelease footage, demonstrating this, and had no time hard time accomplishing the task
and i still think it's a stupid decision

what now?
your argument is baseless

>have a puzzle
>its almost impossible to figure out on your own
>show how to solve it in the trailer footage
>litterally every single dungeon has the EXACT same solution, the only thing different is the code you input which is the boring part

this is probably the worst puzzle in video games.

>>387397764
>Good thing viewing my character isn't required for anything
Neither is rotating the claw

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I'm more dissapointed with how once you figure out the problem, you just end up repeating.
>Walk through dungeon
>Find claw
>2 minutes later you're using it in the same dungeon
There's no apparent attempt at more interesting situations. A broken claw where you need to find its parts across several places, a fake claw left by a bandit, a claw with its symbols scratched away because someone didn't want anyone else to know the answer so you'd have to find that guy's journal for the answer or something.
It's just, find claw, look at claw, use combo.

>>387397876
technically looking at the claw isn't required either, you know

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>>387397417
>undocumented
RTFM retard

>>387397596
>exclusive
First of all, the console versions of the game (where the large majority of the sales came from) have an inspect item prompt on the menu

Secondly, when I played through, I never rotated the claw. But not long afterwards I found a cool sword and managed to figure out I could rotate it. Clicking on the 3D model isn't rocket science. And I won't say it's a bad feature because it's entirely cosmetic. That's like complaining that nobody told me I could have an alternative startup animation on my GameCube by holding Z.

>>387397379
Even at the 480p Youtube resolution I took these screenshots
>>387392720
>>387395196
in, I could still make out that the solution is
>bear
>some thing with outstretched wings
>owl, or some elliptical thing
There really isn't any excuse, especially since there are no other symbols. Plus, I also played vanilla Skyrim on a console, although it was on a 1080p flat screen TV, and I figured out the claw puzzle without using rotation.

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>>387397825
>>its almost impossible to figure out on your own

>>387397621
The thread was worth it just for this comment.

>>387392171
I should've had an NPC tell you check an item at the beginning of the game, to demonstrate it.

>>387397497
why would it be better if it was documented?

>>387397825
>almost impossible
Try brain-dead simple. This puzzle was made for the most casual of players, there's a reason why normies like skyrim so much

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>>387397720
>mfw I see a thread saying MW2's online is the greatest FPS ever

>>387397946
>First of all, the console versions of the game (where the large majority of the sales came from) have an inspect item prompt on the menu
do you have a picture of this?

>>387398006
because todd wants you to rotate the claw, he shows that the claw can be rotated
but why didn't todd tell us how to rotate the claw?

>>387397818
Thinking every interaction with the game menu needs a button prompt is just your opinion, yet you speak it like fact, you make an issue out of a non issue, then demand everyone concede to poor game design. Noone gives a shit about your opinion of Skyrims menu design, you needy little bitch. Its your opinion, and like you said you never even had trouble figuring out rotation yourself, you just want validation for your gay opinion about a tiny irrelevant menu item.

>>387397926
It is the intended solution though, and looking at it and figuring out the solution doesn't require rotating it.

>>387397972
I know, angry 12 year old tier comments are best

>>387397991
That'd be the best way. Just have a main quest where you have to look at the bottom of a boot or something.
It's also stupid in-game to have a puzzle that's so easily solved with a bit of patience. It'd make sense if it was like using both the claw and the combo on it to open the door, not just the combo.

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I brute forced it...

>>387397926
I think that makes it an even shittier puzzle really. At least poison me for getting it wrong or something.

>>387398108
wow you really like to type! good job!
you should work on your spelling though, my small worthless opinion, but people should spell things correctly

>>387398072
>he shows that the claw can be rotated
>but why didn't todd tell us how to rotate the claw?
aren't those two basically the same thing?

>>387398118
OP here, the button prompt part was funny and you know it.

This shit reminds me of an old point and click game like grim fandango.
Lots of bullshit puzzles that, god knows why, people try to defend as logical.
This claw puzzle wasn't impossible to solve but it is shitty game design. They could have put some clear help in the game, like say a voiceline that tells you to take a closer look at the claw.

>>387398219
we couldn't see his beautiful hands
i either need a button prompt or to see our prophet, no, our GOD's lovely smooth hands

>>387398294
couldn't you just look at the screen

>>387398072
>Todd wants you to rotate the claw

Apparently not considering how the palm is in full view, no rotating whatsoever required

I mean you'd be putting in useless effort by changing the rotation angle

>>387398184
Now youre getting it, your opinion is worthless.

So it's agreed then. PC gamers want Skyrim: The Elder Scrolls Six to have a 5 minute tutorial when entering the menu the first time to clearly explain every button and interaction that is possible.

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Where are these comments saying that the claw is facing the viewer comming from?

Here's the earliest showing of Skyrims claw without rotation, first time it comes into your inventory.

There are no button prompts that the inventory item models are anything more than just vanity models as per standart expercations.

Todd gave the answer in these early videos too so i never even had the chance to figure it out, it was spoilered.


So the thread is full of a bunch of confused people misremembering the game and blaming each other for faults that were none.

>>387398065
It sure as hell was the most influential

>>387398287
>like say a voiceline that tells you to take a closer look at the claw.
wouldn't have helped because there's no indication on how to take a closer look

>>387398339
where?

>>387398287
There is a journal that tells you to look at the claw.

>>387398383


>>387397498

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How fucking long have you people been arguing this? Are you serious? Just move the right stick! You don't need a button prompt, because just nudging the right stick will show that you can rotate inventory items. Do you people not have any fucking common sense? Do you not just press all the buttons so you know what each one of them do? Why has argument gone on for two fucking threads?

THIS MEME ISN'T FUNNY ANYMORE! PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE ALL JOKING! IF I LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THIS MANY PEOPLE ARE STUPID ENOUGH NOT TO GET THIS, THEN JUST FUCKING KILL ME, BECAUSE WW3 IS ON THE FUCKING WAY!

YOU PEOPLE HAVE THE AUDACITY TO COMPLAIN ABOUT "CASUALS" AND "NORMIES", YET YOU GET BEFUDDLED BY A FUCKING B E T H E S D A PUZZLE OF ALL THINGS? AND YOU BLAME IT ON ANYONE BUT YOURSELF? DO YOU HAVE NO FUCKING SHAME? YOU PEOPLE ARE RETARDED. THE SOONER YOU ACCEPT IT, THE SOONER AAA STUDIOS CAN ACCOMMODATE FOR YOUR MASS MENTAL HANDICAP!

I fucking hat this place

>>387392841
Why does that dude have tits?

>>387398287
But then its no longer a puzzle, you are no longer figuring anything out yourself. Saying puzzles are poor game design is just your opinion, a shitty one at that.

>>387398383
You see those 3 round things on it? The ones in full view?

Those are the things you need to see to solve the puzzle

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This thread cant be serious right?
even if you don't know the solution you just rotate the pieces.
It takes less than 5 minutes to just rotate through all the options
holy shit this isn't actually 14 year olds right

>>387398376
Button prompt will do just fine next to the other ones.
Maybe have a quest where an NPC straight up asks you to look at the back of something in their shop

>>387398452
Yeah, he has to rotate it as its not clear what the symbols are.

>>387398410
here >>387398383
looks like a screengrab from the early screenings don't have a link to the video on hand

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>>387398454
pretty sure this whole thread is just /v/ doing the "im dumb haha xD" shit they've been doing for 8+ years now

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>>387398497
Problem is you have to rotate to see clearly unlike what people claim. The default position isn't this. The lighting isn't helping to see the answer unless you rotate it flat to the viewers perspective.

>>387398514

>>387397592

>>387398531
Maybe at that Stunning image quality theyre not, but as has been demonstrated earlier in the thread they're perfectly visible ingame at 480p and above

>>387398607
explains all the people defending poor design as being OLD SCHOOL HARDCORE PROFEST

>>387398531
I'll give you the bottom symbol but the first 2 are pretty clear.

>>387398607
That's giving /v too much credit.

>>387398454
I want to hug Aqua.

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>>387398632
but you can't defend it that way because you literally sit back and rotate the pieces until you get the combo it wants.
It takes no time at all and nobody got hung up on this.
I refuse to believe anyone is actually willing to complain about something this simple

>>387398617
I didn't need to rotate it to see them. I didn't even know you could rotate items until this thread, and I never had any trouble whatsoever. They're CLEARLY visible by "default position" or whatever you want to call it

/v/ is absolutely retarded.
>hint that you need to use claw to get puzzle
MUH HANDHOLDING CASUALIZED RPG
>don't hint at it
WAAA I CANT THINK FOR MYSELF

This was one of easiest puzzles in gaming and it's so easy for a lore based reason, the doors are to seal Draugar in, not keep looters out.

>>387398653
That's fine. I think all this unnecessary confusion could've been solved with the rest of the controls tutorial in the tutorial section, having the player pick something up while running from a dragon section and having to look at it.

Seems like the gimmick wasn't thought through by bethesda.

>>387398632
Stop saying poor design like you are video game jesus. You have no authority to dictate what is or is not good game design. If you have an opinion fine, but quit talking like you have any authority on the subject.

>>387398761
see >>387392307

>solution spelled out explicitly in journal
>HARDCORE

>prompt on menu to inspect item
>CASUAL

>>387398764
>gimmick

YOU LITERALLY JUST TURN THE FUCKING TURNSTILES YOU FUCKING IDIOT
YOU FLICK THE FUCKING STICK IN ONE DIRECTION AND FIGURE IT OUT

>>387398764
>Seems like the gimmick wasn't thought through by bethesda.

It really wasn't, just like anything by Bethesda past Morrowind.

>>387398617

I can clearly see Bear, Moth, Owl in this 480p compressed YouTube screenshot at default position. Your argument is not correct. Especially when most people played at 720p or above.
>>387392720

>>387398790
you gonna tell your mom on me if i keep it up or something?

we'll fucking go there

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>>387398761
If anyone
and I mean ANYONE at all
is saying that they need a hint for this puzzle then they are late as a human to playing any video games in general or they are underage.
This is not an argument that can be had. Especially when there are games even in the PS2 era that required at least an hour to figure out puzzles on average.

>>387398807
Whats a stick anon? Why are you shouting about sticks?

>>387398806
it's more like two different shades of casual

>>387398869
Im pointing out that you are acting like a retard, you cant unlearn that, enjoy the rest of your life.

>>387398929
my menus always have one button prompt missing
that makes them HARDCORE

>>387398845
Yeah, that's a shitty video ive looked at. I wish i had the chance to work out the puzzle myself, but the early marketing material kinda ruined at the chance.

I swear when Elder VI Scrolls: The Skyrim comes out if it doesn't have "press WASD to move" when the game starts there will be countless threads bitching about not being told how to move.
>"IM PRESSING THE ARROWS BUT IM NOT MOVIING!!!!!"
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN IM SUPPOSED TO PUSH WASD TO MOVE??? THE GAME NEVER TOLD ME THAT!!!! HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW????"

>>387392171
Where is the statement even coming from?

>people got stuck on a fucking preschool-tier "copy the shapes" puzzle

WHAT THE FUCK. Are you lads mentally touched?

>>387398986
>press WASD to move
i believe they've had that since morrowind even

>>387398974
no it just makes it a menu with a prompt missing. also why should it be a button prompt?

>>387398914
People like you need to quit your fucking idiocy because it's ruining this board.
Call me whatever the fuck you want. At least before people like you started shitposting on this board we could have an actual discussion about video game mechanics and agree that this shit isn't fucking difficult without some faggot ass degenerate coming on saying "HURR WHATS A STICK"
Actually fucking off yourself.

>>387392171
>Its an easy puzzel
Its shitty but not shitty desgin

>>387399046
>why should it be a button prompt?
why should it exist?

>>387398986
Moving isn't a new feature in the series that's both rare in other games anon.

That said, the item didn't need to be rotated in the first place.

>Was the item turning mechanic poorly presented in the game?
yes
>Did you need to rotate to solve the puzzle?
no

There are two discussions going on at the same time.entre spencer

>>387398901
There's a shit ton of people popping up in these threads saying they didn't know what to do with the claw and it's not entirely their faults

Button prompt, simple as that

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>300 replies

>>387399093
what "it" are you referring to?

>>387399062
Anon, please, you're scaring the children!

Not everyone has sticks on their keyboard and mouse anon, calm down.

>>387398974
Nobody is saying it makes it hardcore, we are saying that the puzzle is so brain-dead simple the fact you have to resort to "but there's no inspect item prompt" to defend your inability to solve it is fucking ridiculous

I am 100% confident that millions of 12 year olds played skyrim on their xboxes and did the puzzle just fine

I just dropped the claw. Picked it up using Z and moved it so I could clearly see

What is the problem? You don't even need to do it in the menu lmao

>>387399108
The game actually tells you its own mechanics, anon.
If you can't figure out that you can take those and apply them to puzzles then don't play single player video games.

>>387399136
I told you to stop acting retarded on purpose

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>>387396556
I played on a potato on lowest graphical settings and could very easily make out the symbols.

This game is easy.

This game appeals for casuals.

This game makes /v/ really mad because of that.

I don't mind tho.

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>>387399162
This guy - best guy.

Fuck bethesdas rotation gimmicks, you can do it in game, like a proper game should do.

>>387398974
No one wants to give validation to retards, its that simple.

>>387399139
>to defend your inability
read any post chain
people didn't lack ability to figure it out, they question why the prompt is missing

i knew, before the game released, how this "puzzle" was solved
i do not believe that the "puzzle" should be how to figure out how to rotate an item, but the puzzle should be that you look at an item
people are defending otherwise, people believe that the game would be lesser if there was a button prompt explaining how to rotate items

explain this position

>>387399108
Why would they need a button prompt when using the rotate/inspect item feature isn't even necessary.

All 3 symbols on the claw's palm are visible in it's default position. There was no reason anyone should have been confused, even if they didn't know how to rotate it.

>>387392171
I had no idea that this was even an issue until this thread. Are you fucking serious?

>>387399097
>Moving isn't a new feature in the series that's both rare in other games anon.
Using the mouse to rotate in the menu isnt a new feature in the series either. You rotated your character in the menu in Oblivion by using the mouse and it had no button prompts either.
>you didnt have to rotate your character though
You don't have to rotate the claw either, just as you said.

>>387399128
>/v/ Talks about videogames for ones
Woah what a bunch of suckers

>>387399220
You know that thing you do with the altar at the start of the game?
You do the same thing with the claw.

>>387399162
"Quest items cannot be removed from your inventory"

Oops!

>>387399220
>people didn't lack ability to figure it out, they question why the prompt is missing
i think that's just you dude

>>387392171
So what exactly are we supposed to do with that puzzle?

I've never played Skyrimjobs so I don't know.

>>387399197
What do you mean anon. I don't have sticks.

Keyboard controls weren't listed like the controller controls were.

That said, i agree with you my love, rotation wasn't even necessary to solve it, so people not smart enough didn't figure out to look at the inventory. I disagree with you that the feature of rotation wasn't anything more than a shitty marketing gimmick to hide there's less substance to the game now as the feature was useless and not a game mechanic in any shape or form. It's pointless vanity.

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>>387399228
It's literally just retards vs people who have played video games before

>>387399220
But you do just look at the item. You don't even need to rotate it whatsoever.

I don't see why a rotate item prompt has anything to do with it and I don't see why you've latched onto that for your defense.

>>387399274
>You know that thing you do with the altar at the start of the game?
what

>>387399305
could be some for one, some for another
it's more than just me though, i don't understand why people are against the idea of this prompt existing when there is a prompt for everything else

why is it so offensive of a concept?

>>387399239
Now that you said it ive realised i'd rather have my character model in the inventory than useless in game models.

>>387399364
why should there be one?

The puzzle door is literally just a re-skin of the the vault door from the fallout 3 series that goes down instead of sideways

How are you "gamers" so easily dupped haha -Todd laughing In the distance-

>>387399430
consistency

there is a listed button for equipping items, there is a listed button for dropping items, why can't there be a listed button for inspecting items?

>>387399351
Social media(fb) and LoL were a mistake.

>>387399364
I have nothing against a prompt for rotating items but I also don't see why there should be one at all, considering how it's not needed to do any task in the game, and how 99% of people would figure it out on their own by moving their RS or clicking on the 3D item in their menu

>>387399341
But the m/kb controls were shown to you to let you know that you could rotate objects did they not? I played controller on my playthroughs and I see no reason why theyh wouldn't.
Regardless I never made an attempt to say rotating the object gave deeper game mechanics but that you could easily figure out the puzzles regardless based off of the game mechanics given.

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So Discussion Depleted

Conclusions

1. Stupid people didn't solve it
2. Rotation is nothing more than a shitty gimmick that has no purpose in the game despite Todd telling us otherwise in his marketing pitch.
3. Bethesda is shit at gamedesign
4. Puzzles are done for in bethesda titles.