Why do game developers think adding an asshole option is

Renegade femshep is objectively the best choice faggot!

>>387351770
Renegade is fucking lame though
Same as being Evil in Fallout except significantly less enjoyable since Evil in Fallout has some fun material in it

Is there a rpg where you can fake to be good but be evil instead?

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>>387351582
because it was on KOTOR

>>387351582
should you go back to Fallout 4?

-yes
-yes(sarcastic)
-ugh, yes

>>387351582
fuck you
andromeda would be miles better still shit if you could be an asshole instead of a cuck

>>387352205
I tried the trial and was confused by what the symbols represented there was a circular swirl, square swirl, loveheart and cog.
What the fuck

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>>387351582
Faggots like you are the ones who will vote to give a percentage of your earnings to blacks in our lifetime.
>I can't believe they allowed me to punch her
>i can't believe they allowed me to evict refugees from the Lords lands.
(dragon age disquisition: you can use the military option to "kill" the refugees as the Lord asks, but it makes you escort them to safety instead)

You're a faggot who hates freedom in all its forms.

>>387352880
I don't have a problem with acting maliciously but oftentimes the "Evil" or Renegade options are just fucking stupid and badly written.
If you actually think they're well-implemented then you're a child.

>>387351582
in ME1 Paragon is a gentle/heroic good guy, while Renegade is a badass, hardened good guy that's sometimes questionable

ME2 made Renegade an asshole, so I assume you're talking about ME2? that game is shit, just don't play it

>>387353068
>ME2 made Renegade an asshole, so I assume you're talking about ME2? that game is shit, just don't play it
Actually yeah. I thought ME1's Renegade made a good amount of sense because you're a hardened military guy acting like a harsh but fair leader generally.

But what spawned this post was playing ME2 and meeting Mordin Solus. I tried the Renegade option and Shepard literally just says "Oh shut up you"

It's the fucking stupidest thing that I've ever seen in a game acclaimed for its writing and story. I hate ME2 so much at this point.

>>387353238
there's more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtRljrmQZs

>this is considered "Renegade" by NuBioware

>>387352961
I'm not saying they're well implemented, they're pretty shit and I can't think of a recent game that had well implemented player choices.

We haven't progressed in RPGs in any notable way in years. They have budgets of tens of millions but never focus on what makes a role playing game unique. Look at fallout 4: the options were tied to 4 responses at most because it's easier to select with the 4 face buttons of a controller, and even then those 4 responses were either "Yes, No Maybe(Yes)".

But that's what happens when you make a business of making games.

>>387351582

When will games ever do morality right? Like the Witcher. Renegade/Paragon is, "Do you want to be a Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain?" or, "Do you want to be a Saint?"

>>387353427
Eh I think that's intentionally a joke

Still that's not why people want Renegade path so idk

>>387353631
The only option is abandoning morality like FNV

>>387351963
you forgot
-no (yes)

>>387353648
a joke in-fucking-deed, a horrible one, going for the badass motherfucker route and getting THAT? making a scene in the citadel, getting offended at nothing? that'd be like, a SJW/oppressed minority route, THIS STORE IS RACIS

>>387353807
>going for the badass motherfucker route and getting THAT?
yeah that's the main problem
a person who wants a curt, powerful jackass is instead getting just a sarcastic asshole like F4

>>387351582
So Racist nazis will still buy their game

>>387351582
I would not mind the renegade option if it was complex to the point you could be manipulative and play like some cunning politician but usually it doesn't work like that. Or just simply putting your foot down on matters but that never works out.

Like in skyrim I when the bitch wants you to just trust her because she says so, wanted to tell her to stfu and play by my rules since I am the goddamn dragonborn who is more useful than her. Forgot her name but it is an earlier quest.

>>387353631
I agree with this. Witcher did it best. I like fallout better than ES, yet those are all miles better than Bioware.

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>>387351832
>significantly less enjoyable

And there your argument falls to shit, people find enjoyment in different things, calm you autism and allow people with different narrative taste have what they like.

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>>387353631
>When will games ever do morality right?
Stop trying to write good and bad and just create lawful/chaotic actions.
Games need to stop trying to simulate nagging DMs, that's where this fixed good/bad thing come from.
You don't play RPG *video games* to be good or bad, you play to take actions in the world.
In a single player game the only thing that should matter is the internal consistency for the character you are roleplaying, if a character destroys an entire city to save a few people and still feels like he did the good thing? so be it, write other characters to add repercussion to those actions, no need to finger wagging in the games part

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>>387351582
>Not wanting to be LITERALLY HITLER in a game
I bet you spare the villain too if given the option you cuckold.

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The only good morality system I experienced was in SOMA and it wasn't a dialogue wheel and it wasn't a red or blue bar. It was just that, a gameplay decision the game doesn't even inform you about. Like this scan of a woman trapped at the bottom of the sea floor thinking she is on the Ark. You are just going around when you meet her and you can ignore her and her "hello" completely and move forward. Or you can talk to her and even pull the plug that is behind her. Just a gameplay, no stupid little color points.

Why can't more games go this subtle route instead of spoonfeeding you with "just look how evil asshole you are" is beyond me. Is the average consumer garbage? I remember inFAMOUS 2 evil karma being the one devs envisioned as canon for inFAMOUS 3 which would be basically god tier sequel and even killed Cole off in good karma story just so people would play the evil side but no. 80% rather have Cole dead so they can have blue good paragon of perfect morality so that shit became canon and Second Son happened instead. Fuck I am mad for what awesome game could 3 be with beast Cole traveling around the Earth.

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>>387351582
Concerning ME2 I consider some renegade options to be mandatory like pushing that guy out of the window, shooting that teenager who's decked out in bad guy colours but pleading for her life, headbutting the Krogan and shooting those pipes to cook other Krogan.

>>387352485
its supposed to be emotional, logical, scientific apparently its not the same and some thing else

>>387351770
renegade femshep got me so hard god damn...

>>387354453
If you actually think Renegade in Mass Effect is more rewarding than Evil in Fallout you have terrible taste in gameplay.

>>387353631
Well Dragon Age did that

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>>387353631
Fable 1 and 2 had pretty good systems.

>>387351582
>ME1
>hardboiled pragmatist vs heroic idealist

>ME2
>sarcastic asshole vs fucc boi scout

>ME3
>Interstellar Hitler vs the Son of God, praise be his name

>>387353631
stop playing ME2 and play ME1

Evil options are already when it's actually the "easier/more beneficier but morally wrong" option and not the "be a complete fucking cockend for absolutely no reason" option.

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>the game is split between black/white morality system
>it isn't morally ambiguous and there is a set "bad guy" and "good guy"
>the three options are "be a yielding, beta-faggot", "silence or sarcastic remarks" or "being a dick for no reason but for the sake of being a dick"

No thanks. I don't play shit games with shit writing. Call me when there's a game that gives you different options on what to do that make you think about the morality and effects of the actions you take.

>>387351582
Western RPGs sometimes have terrible roleplay additions. It's like forcing a writer to write stereotypical asshole character dialogue for every thing, even if it doesn't make sense to have the character behave like that. That applies to any of response styles that need to be checklisted for roleplaying options.

It helped with The Witcher's trilogy writing that you had a defined character and your choices were mostly things that Geralt could say either way depending on where his thought process takes him.

Paragon Femshep hnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg

>>387351582
The big problem with morality in videogames is that having big consequences for trying to be good feels "unfun" or "unfair" a lot of the time. LISA did it, but it didn't give a shit about feeling unfair. Undertale got around it with its meta plot, so while you could reset to try out the bad path with no permanent consequences, doing so in ITSELF is the "bad" choice, whereas letting the game be after getting the pacifist ending is the "good" choice.

Outside of stupid indie games, SMT tries to balance it by replacing "evil" and "good" with "order" and "chaos", but often just provides a third "true" route which usually provides a happier ending, so it's kinda moot.

Well it's not an RPG if you can't choose to be good or evil.

>>387351582
because sjw ruined the evil option, so were stuck with the asshole option

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>>387355519
we are talking about fallout 12 & new vegas, not 3&4

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>>387351582
I don't know but the renegade option for elorna was pretty good

play Knights of the Old Republic 1 and Alpha Protocol

that's why, because it's usually insanely fun

>not playing renegade femshep

you're missing out

>>387356875
The problem is good usually requires more effort and unless it's Deus Ex it doesn't get you better rewards.

in KoTOR 1 for example, being good requires you to do loads of questing AND refuse to accept a reward, hell sometimes you have to do a quest then give the questgiver money on top of that, and all you get is a shit ability to buff yourself for 3 rounds of combat
meanwhile being evil means you can just kill the questgiver, take their money, and get rewarded with the power to nuke whole rooms with lightning.

It's also just less fun to be good. You get a thank you from a character you'll never, ever see again, and that's it. Meanwhile being evil you can manipulate them into killing each other in a hilarious shootout, or doom an entire civilization to eternal suffering, or murder a crazy guy in a locker, or coerce someone into selling themselves into slavery with their daughter. It's always hilarious.

>>387353631
Any system where the "choices" are simply choosing one of n pre-decided options are always going to be terrible.
There's no flexibility.

>>387351582
Some people like to be assholes, I guess. Better that they do it in a game than take it out on real people.

>>387351582
Evil routes allow players to vent their frustrations that come with the good route. It lets them explore the less reasonable but more satisfying option, like saying punching an annoying news reporter or just killing a bad guy instead of jumping through hoops to capture him. Any time you think, "Dammit can't I just do x here" that's where the evil route can step in. This is why evil routes tend to give you more rewards and good routes tend to be more balanced.

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>>387357352
>Run into a gangster in their fucking HQ who is slowly pulling out a gun while you're talking to her
>Is told before meeting her that everyone in the gang has to kill someone to wear the uniform
>If you kill her you're renegade
I guess i have skewed priorities because last time i checked being an officer of the law letting a gangster who is confirmed to have killed people run off without even considering tying them up/apprehending them is not only morally wrong but ethically as well.

>>387355141
>Is the average consumer garbage?
Consider how stupid the average person is.
Now realize many people are more stupid than the average.

I always play as an asshole in an RPG if I can, I just wish you could play like a pragmatic/smart asshole instead of just being "MUAHAHAHA I'LL RAPE THIS PUPPY BECAUSE I'M EVIL".
Also games should start taking a neutral playthrough as a legit option and reward you for it. The worst offenders are the Star Wars game where ocasionally someone will tell you that being pragmatic, neutral, gray or whatever is the best thing ever but then the game fucks you over if you take that path.

>>387355939
Eating crunchy chicks in front of that temple just cracked me up.

>>387358907
Jedi Academy is the best example
>Hey, Jaden, limiting yourself to a single side of the Force is for losers, you should use powers from both sides!
>put a few more Force Points in Dark Side powers
>hurr durr Jaden what are you doing you will fall to the dark side
Fuck you, Kyle.
Granted, the whole "Gray Jedi" shit is something only retards who don't know shit about the Force think would work so maybe it's intentional.

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>>387358446
>bioware writing plot analysis
Good job anon, you can consider being a successful person if you even consider spending your time on this. Remember the last two words of the Shepard's trilogy are downloadable content.

>>387356050
>Interstellar Hitler
>bad

>>387355017
This

>wanting to be Hitler
Sorry I only fight for freedom

>>387358581
R.I.P. G. Carlin.

>>387351582
Problem is there's no in between. You're either a saint or a psychotic puppy kicker.

>>387361981
Baldur's Gate usually had a multitude of ways to tackle a problem.

>>387358581
Not me though, I'm smart

The better question is why developers think adding a binary morality system is ever a good idea, especially when there's any sort of reward system tied to it.

>Want that other ending? Better play again as jesus this time
>lol fooled u is just the other ending with one different line of dialogue and a different filter

>Want that one cool bad guy power? Well you can NEVER EVER EVER use a good guy power or you're locked out. Forever. Have fun faggot.

>>387351582
I can't remember what that chinese bioware game is off the top of my head but the game's morality system was so cool because neither side was really good or bad. The open palm was about helping people in their time of need but when you realize you can solve everyones problems you might end up as a dictator saving everyone from themselves. Closed fist was selfish and power hungry but it recognizes that by letting people solve their own problems they become much stronger for overcoming them.

But I guess the developers never got the memo. Every single open palm option was to be helpful, work within the bounds of the law, or generally be polite. Every single closed fist option was something like bringing a person to face the sins of their past and get eaten by skeletons they can't fight back against or drain the lake this huge city depends on to live for $500 from a wine salesman who thinks he'll get more business that way.

Why are video games written like Hollywood movies where everyone is a sarcastic ass hole? Every line by everyone is a little quippy remark. Why? It's disgusting.

>>387351582

Age of decadence has pretty decent '' evil '' choices. Most games don't.

See the thing is games are scared of giving better rewards for evil choices. Every fucking peasant you help have a fucking reward to give. Even if they don't there's no pressure from the setting, it's easy as fk to make money killing '' evil '' people.

You wanna be the good guy in a dystopia? Sure , you'll get the feel good + ethics and the evil choice get the money rewards.

Wish we had more bleak settings but i guess it alienates the core retard who plays rpgs

The problem too is that the good choices and bad choices are always placed in the same fucking order so you instinctively already know which ones which.

>>387362617
American writing.

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>what it should be
Paragon: Make a morally right decision that people may benefit from later at the cost of making things worse now (i.e spare guys infected with a disease with the caveat of trying to find a cure; risk exposure, but could save hundreds. Finding of the cure is done through in-game actions later in the level, meaning things could go even worse)
Renegade: Make pragmatic decision that makes things better immediately at the cost of screwing things up later (kill infected people, preventing spread of disease, but dooming them to never find a cure and killing hundreds indriectly
>what it is
Paragon: fuck you lol (does the best thing in the situation)
Renegade: fuck you lol (does worst possible thing in the situation for the lols)

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>>387355752
>constantly morally offend everyone in party
>shower with gifts
>they still love you

>>387362908
You forgot to add
>fuck you lol in blue filter
>fuck you lol in red filter

>>387354453
Calm down sperg

>>387363786
Also
>High tone gong
>Low tone gong

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>>387351582
>he's a moralfag

>>387351582
it IS a good idea
the problem is that it almost always becomes "asshole for no reason" rather than "cutting social corners to get an advantage"
99% of the time being a good guy requires you to sacrifice nothing, and in fact is often the superior mechanical choice
it's retarded

>>387362540
That's Jade Empire and it was by old Bioware. The same faggots who made Mass Effect. What you are seeing is the clear effect of being bought by EA.

>>387365926
In old crpg being a good guy would get you reputation but less material rewards. Now it gets you more money and reputation and being evil gets you less of everything.

>>387353427
>brash and forceful manipulation in order to get a discount
>not renegade