Sonic Adventure isn't "badly aged"; it was always

File: sonics_standing_b.png (12KB, 360x135px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 360x135px

>>387229235
>It also in terms of mechanics offers something not necessarily unique but not as well executed as its predecessors
Fuck me I meant follow-ups, not predecessors. The 2D Sonics are definitely stronger games, but I'd argue they're also too different to compare. SA1 was about fast platforming with physics playing little role; 2D Sonics were practically all about the pinball physics.

Sonic Adventure hasn't aged badly, it was already dated when it came out. 3D platformers with tight controls existed in 1999.

File: superior japanese cover not drawn by a dead gay faggot who can't draw things that aren't backgrounds.jpg (118KB, 525x740px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 525x740px

>>387229387
As for the 2D Sonics those can also be hugely flawed. Sonic 1 just controls very oddly; it's slow and not immediate enough to be inherently fun. The lack of a spin-dash truly dates it even more to anyone but the most dedicated "muh momentum based gameplay, spindash was horrible at planted the seed for the boost" types whose tastes are more niche than someone who plays PC-98 porn games like Night Slave for the gameplay.

Sonic 2 was a massive improvement but the special stages are pure dog shit and make the full experience hard to bother with and makes you want to just speedrun the levels; I've only bothered unlocking Super Sonic once in that and I don't want to do it again.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of the really really good ones. Extremely cohesive world making the game feel like a big adventure, perfect controls, good special stages and (holy shit thank you) a level select that allows you infinite chances to get both sets of emeralds. The characters with different routes & gameplay. It's practically perfect.

>>387229724
I thought I was the only person who loved Night Slave. Damn, that's an obscure reference.

>>387229419
It wasn't "dated", it was flawed. It was trying something very different compared to Mario
64 and Crash.

Is there *any* game that has the same style of gameplay and did a better job? No other platformer I can think of attempted those mechanics and the actually-similar follows ups don't come close.

File: Night_Slave_(PC-98)_07.png (6KB, 640x400px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 640x400px

>>387229838
I do like the 90% of the porn scenes because they're mostly yuri but It could've been a shitting dick nipples game and I still would've enjoyed it cuz Assault Suits-inspired heavy mech games are cool.

>>387229938
I had no idea what was going on in the porn scenes, but the fact that the options menu let you skip them tells me that it's just a formality. The gameplay is top tier, I love the gradius-style powerups too.

>>387229938
the music in this fucking game is great

File: 91VnoXXEyZL.png (612KB, 1024x500px) Image search: [Google]

612KB, 1024x500px

>>387229724
As for Sonic CD? The level design can be a bit "why would you do that" at times, but then so can the level design in 3. One glaring mistake though is not giving you multiple chances at time travel. It's very satisfying to frolic about in the good future but you don't get to do it much in the later stages outside of the final boss zones. Another glaring flaw is the few levels where the game locks you into the goal ring area and you can't go back, so you have to memorize the levels that do that; a flaw very similar to NiGHTS having those boosts that throw you into the exit prematurely. The large levels are fun to run and jump through and the enemy lay-outs let you satisfyingly smash into one robot to the next. The boss battles can be very, very inventive.

The modern remake in that one Chris Whatever fangame engine (on Steam at least, never tried the console one) is fantastic. Controls great, allows you to retry bonus stages, all it needs is to have global rankings for speed instead of score because score means nothing in Sonic CD.

It's not as good as 3 but I'd say it's the second best of the classic console Sonics. The presentation is arguably better than 3K being the most psychedelic and stylish Ohshima-like Sonic game, very similar to NiGHTS & Burning Rangers.
>>387230030
I actually don't like Gradius much (Darius is better) but I like the idea of the weapon system, it's cool that they used it here.

>>387230320
>>387230030
>>387229838
>>387230694 Made a thread for these types of games

The Adventure games are fine and aged just as much as Mario 64 or the original Crash trilogy did, people who try to make them look like these unspeakable Bubsy 3D-tier trainwrecks are being silly.

Adventure wasn't awful, but it was such a huge mistep in the wrong direction for Sonic that it dragged the quality of every future Sonic title into the mud.

The worst offenders were the speed boosts and linear paths in 3D. Cancer incarnate.

>>387231119
Sonic 2 had boosts though and I don't think they're a bad thing, it's just a different kind of gameplay. It doesn't work in heavily physics-based games like the classic style but for gameplay like that of Sonic Adventure, Rush and the day time Unleashed style used by many games now it fits like a glove.

The classic physics based style has not gone away; look at Mania. I just wish it wasn't such a nostalgia wank fest & had original levels only cuz otherwise it looks great, but as-is I'll wait for the winter sale.

File: 16.png (4MB, 2773x1787px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2773x1787px

>>387231119
>>387231484
Oh and as for linearity? Sonic 1 was much worse about that, often locking you into a slow moving rollercoaster (the worst kind of rollercoaster) of slow platforming that you often can't even skip through a different route. People shit on Marble Garden Zone but I'm not sure why; it's far more fun than Marble Zone.

Sonic Adventure 1's platforming never grinded you to a halt. It's impossible to rush through without using glitches, meanwhile SA1's platforming lets you do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I48Skm_Z3Ic

>>387231768
Okay I'll be honest, I exaggerated a bit here. But 1 does have instances of bad level design and is definitely more linear than the other games at times.

>>387230962
I think it's mostly people too young who didn't actually bother looking into the history of platform games or really thinking about it. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I recall there used to be more varied opinions on /v/ about Adventure, both games, around 2006 when I ventured outside /b/. I recall the first thread that universally loathed the game and anyone trying to defend it even slightly was shit on was the one about some gay ass Egoraptor video.

>Crash
>Good

Stopped reading there. Surely no one actually believes that, right?

Compared to the Nintendo equivalent, Donkey Kong Country, Crash was ALWAYS an unpolished mess with ugly character designs, bland environments, and sub-par gameplay. Not mediocre... Sub-par.

I used to be critical of Sonic for having aged badly, but as I played through the original games in preparation for Mania I found that there were things I liked about them. There was NO SUCH REALIZATION with Crash. In fact, the recent release has just made me realize how much I fucking hate these games.

Sonic Adventure, in spite of all it's problems, still has a unique sense of style and atmosphere that fans adore to this day. Crash, in comparison, has nothing besides the blind nostalgia of Playstation fanboys who have never played a truly great platforming game.

>>387232608
> that fans adore to this day
Yeah as a "guilty pleasure, an objectively irredeemable game that I like because of nostalgia alone" because all the epic internet funny men say they need to feel guilty.

Where did "Crash is DKC" stuff start? This is the second time I've seen it. I'd like to hear you elaborate though; they are similar in some ways but also quite different in others.

>>387233076
>>387232608
Oh also I'd like you to elaborate on why you find Crash does it so much worse.

>>387232608
Crash was literally the first 3D platformer to incorporate sidescrolling sections, you dip.

File: 1502668383047-v.png (340KB, 747x1099px) Image search: [Google]

340KB, 747x1099px

Sonic Adventure was never good.

>>387233076
>>387232608
>>387233137
To elaborate on why I disagree, while they're similar in some ways, I think Crash is more about doing precision platforming as effectively as you can with some light exploration while Donkey Kong is more about forward momentum. There's no running in Crash and the spin doesn't have the same "GO GO GO" feeling as the roll in DKC except in 1 where it just controlled badly.

Sonic adventure was always flawed. Most likely people just overlooked its faults when it launched on the Dreamcast due to its graphics, and sonic's first 3D adventure. Plus sonic was still popular and generally well liked.

Now that the sonic brand has been tarnished by a steady release of garbage for over a decade the rose tinted glasses are off and the brand is associated with shit, people go into the games much more critically and without high expectations leaving the flaws much more apparent.

>>387229235
Agreed.

>>387233076
Essentially the problem with Crash can be broken down into two facts. It is not a great 2D platforming game, and it is not a true 3D platformer.

Games like Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Island utilized 2D level design much better than Crash ever did, while games like Mario 64 pushed the genre into 3D with great success. I make the comparison to DKC specifically because of similar the games are, both aesthetically and gameplay wise. You have a side attack and the ability to jump on enemies, and the setting is somewhat similar.

However what makes DKC leaps and bounds a better game than Crash is the stellar gameplay. DKC, unlike Crash, is fun to play. There are lots of really technical things going on in that game, such as taking advantage of the way the different characters handle or learning how to jump in mid-air. Crash has nothing like that.

It's amazing how I've been playing DKC regularly for twenty years and never get tired of it, while the very people shilling the Crash remaster freely admit that they have not touched a Crash game since the 90's.

>>387233356
I played Sonic Adventure for the first time recently, and in spite of all of it's very apparent flaws, I still liked it because there a good games at it's core.

>>387233139
No, that was Bug!

File: ca5b86fc556c753b86438bcd9688aba6.png (133KB, 600x700px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 600x700px

>>387233227
That's your opinion m8, I'm talking about the idea of it being "dated". "Datedness" is defined by what audiences as a whole consider obsolete, not single opinions. SA1 was considered great when it came out and it was just as "obsolete" then as it is now in terms of flaws. The thing is it did a specific type of platforming mechanics that no other game tried & succeeded better. The N. Sane Trilogy arguably plays worse than Crash 2 and 3 because of the worse hit box and other small things and modern audiences are eating it up.

This about face doesn't really make much sense given the public and critical reaction at the time and the fact that the game was equally flawed and obviously so when compared to more 3D polished platformers of the 90s. So I suspect it's mainly about vocal & influential minorities convincing a lot of young of a broken idea of the industry.

I saw someone today claim "I used to like a lot of objectively horrible games, like Enter the Dragonfly and Sonic Adventure". The huge difference is Enter the Dragonfly was always considered a crock of shit.

>>387229235
FUUUUUUCK OFF!

Stop trying to take away Sonic mania's spotlight.
Miserable baby 3d fan.

Look, I agree, I do like that era of gaming, it felt really cosy and was full of optimism, but could you stop posting for at least a few weeks?

We only want to talk about 2d Sonic here.

>>387233356
I understand acknowledging the flaws, I'm talking about the idea that it's an inherently broken disaster that was fun then but is now impossible to enjoy by "modern standards". 3D platformers did not evolve that much for something like that to make any sense.

The technical graphical quality was not that impressive. Plenty of games at the time more technical spectacle. The art direction is what made it look great.

If it was a "broken" game like gay youtubers say people would not have been able to look past it being "Sonic's first 3D adventure!!!"

It's not wrong to analyze it but it's silly to completely dismiss it with "datedness" being the reason.

File: liwuqeliquweliuqwleiuqew.png (414KB, 815x520px) Image search: [Google]

414KB, 815x520px

>>387234057
>FUUUUUUCK OFF!

>Stop trying to take away Sonic mania's spotlight.
>Miserable baby 3d fan.

>Look, I agree, I do like that era of gaming, it felt really cosy and was full of optimism, but could you stop posting for at least a few weeks?

>We only want to talk about 2d Sonic here.

>>387233647
I agree the handling in DKC is more mechanically interesting and I pointed out the more momentum focused and elaborate movement controls myself. I just don't think Crash is bad because it's linear. I don't think platformers have to be either 3D collectathons or 2D.

The glitches weren't that bad in SA. Maybe in the awful DX port, but the real game was not that bad, especially for the time.

File: neogeopocket_sonic_the_hedgehog_-_pocket_adventure_1.gif (20KB, 300x287px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 300x287px

>>387234335
>>387234057
To add to this S3K was my first Sonic game.

Mania looks good mechanically & stylistically, the 2D animations are the most charming they've been since Sonic CD. The new zones look nice, not nearly as exhilaratingly atmospheric as CD (which I think is the style they were aping) but cool. Too bad there's barely any of them. Green Hill Zone was remade, what, a dozen times now? Chemical Plant Zone was remade in Sonic Pocket Adventure AND Generations. Anyone who's paid attention to the rom hack scene at all must've played them even more. We've all played these zones already a million times.

I want the great graphics of Mania but used to make new levels. I don't even know if I want to buy it; what message will that give to Sega? That they can keep rehashing stuff, or that people like early to mid 90s Sonic and they should make a NEW game in that style? I'd fucking love that.

>>387234748
What are the main differences? Stuff that often happens in SA but not DX.

>>387235383
SA is far more stable, has better models for the characters, better textures (that don't warp), and a better camera.

File: 1427243647698.gif (16KB, 94x122px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 94x122px

>>387234057
Did you know that you can enjoy both 2D and 3D Sonic?

>>387235548
>SA is far more stable
In what way?

>>387235751
Less glitches, most noticeably on loops, or any wall/floor really.

>>387235651
He can but this thread is ruining his idea of community cohesion: that Adventure is "comfy" but objectively bad and a guilty pleasure to like and 2D Sonic is sacred even though it took 3 games to perfect

>>387235807
I'll... really have to try emulating the Dreamcast one then. If you're right then this is a very important point to make.

File: 1453888958945.gif (3MB, 444x338px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 444x338px

>love Mario 64
>love Crash and Spyro
>love Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, wish they'd refine these two games and really give it a go with talented developers

Feels good not being a stupid fucking hater like most people on this board Sonic Adventure 2 in particular rewards skill. Yea its a 6/10 game but if you're good at the game it feels amazing to play and go for completion.

>>387233957

this. Anyone actually alive during SA's era remembers it was received really well and considered a must-play on the Dreamcast.

These games aren't really as awful as people make them out to be, they just aren't as good as genesis Sonic. I don't see the big deal here, but apparently far too many people can't play these games without sperging out.

>>387235914
I thought it was common knowledge that the DX port was shoddy compared to the original.

File: Smug Krillin.gif (500KB, 500x287px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 500x287px

>>387229235
WAIT, HOLD THE FUCK UP, WHY THE FUCK IS THAT PIC OF SONIC SO FUCKING UNNERVING?!

File: GszM9lW.png (290KB, 644x484px) Image search: [Google]

290KB, 644x484px

>>387236195
Because you can't appreciate the best Sonic artist

>>387229387
those pixels on the end of the head spines of the far right sonic bother me

>>387233647
DKC and Crash are both tons of fun to play
stop presenting your opinion as though it's fact

File: 1502443791667.jpg (91KB, 350x350px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 350x350px

Sonic Adventure games were always shit, they're too easy to break

File: Sonicadventuredcog (2).jpg (140KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 800x800px

>>387236310
Ohshima advising the artist is why the art for SA1 was better than 2 too.

File: Sonic-adventure-2-battle (1).png (592KB, 1072x1211px) Image search: [Google]

592KB, 1072x1211px

>>387236742
Then when he left the art got a lot stiffer even though it was the same artist

>>387236683
So don't play like an autistic tool assisted speedrunner

>>387231768
>SA1's platforming
I remember not using the snake in the ruins level with sonic. You were able to jump on the pillars to move around the area to press the buttons to open the door.

sonic adventure list of grievances

-sonic and co should never talk
-the people who were ok with the stages after the first 2 be shot
-big the cat should not be in this game. Put him somewhere else, not in a fucking sonic game
-basically everything you do inbewteen playing the stages is pointless fluff that could be removed but they can't do that if you dramatically cut playtime (which is made up of fluff, go figure.)
-animation should not be this fucking atrocious in 1999, (refer to point 1 seeing as this is where The animation is at its worst)
-overall, I really hope you had good childhood memories but if I had to replay this not Mario 64, I'm going with Mario. Fuck outta here

>>387237029
>-basically everything you do inbewteen playing the stages is pointless fluff that could be removed but they can't do that if you dramatically cut playtime (which is made up of fluff, go figure.)
>-animation should not be this fucking atrocious in 1999, (refer to point 1 seeing as this is where The animation is at its worst)
Fine points, everything else is mostly silly. I disagree with the first however, I think they add to the adventurous feeling & add cohesion to the world.

The cutscene animations are impossible to defend but they're not the game. I think they were intentionally that way but I think the animators just didn't know how to pull it off. It was meant to be cartoony and exaggerated akin to that face NiGHTS pulls off in the intro but it didn't go for full cartoony animation so it did not work.

Big should've been a minigame, but he absolutely should have been in the game. He's one of the most charming parts.

The game having dialogue is completely fine, I think SA1's narrative aspect worked because it was more serious than past games without going full edge; it's the type of tween appeal that works. And the dub voice acting is charmingly bad, which is what people mistakenly think of the Sonic OVA dub (the voice acting there is unironically good)

File: Neutral_Garden.png (437KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

437KB, 640x480px

You know what really made Adventure 2 a better game? The Chao Garden.

It compliments the Action Stages perfectly: You get to replay and master the fun Sonic and Shadow Stages, making sure to gather Chao Power-ups, and then you go to the Chao Garden, which provides a much better lasting appeal and turns what is a pretty mediocre action game into a breeding game with a very fun resource-gathering stages.

To this day, the one thing that makes me come back to this game is the Chao Garden.

>>387238029
I liked the Chao Garden but Chao Garden fags like you always weirded me out. I prefer the SA1 one simply because it had better music. Ever notice it's the same sound as Spring Valley from NiGHTS? So great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGDs5NkJiiU

borb > wiener

>>387235952
I've not thought about getting S ranks and whatnot and never tried; based on casual runs I hugely prefer 1 though.

File: 1470730801636.jpg (80KB, 350x526px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 350x526px

>>387239738

well I used to be like you until I decided to go for A ranks in 2. Some stages are bullshit like Rouge's space stage but for the most part, the meat of the game in SA2 is going for the best scores/times/ranks and 100% completion even if the Green Hill stage reward is a bit meh.

Again the game is still not the best thing ever, but people really overstate how bad SA1 and SA2 are. Plus, as others have said the Chao Garden is pretty much the best built-in side attraction in any platformer ever.

>>387229235
It never aged poorly, it was just always painfully mediocre.
Absolutely no part of Sonic adventure could be considered above mediocre.
It wasn't that fun either, I found it to be a fucking slog.

>>387229235
I still really enjoy it.

>>387241015
Interesting observation really, I never thought of it that way. Might replay both & make a video on this subject, I need something simple to link that summarizes my thoughts and isn't a tl;dr 4chan thread.

>>387241154
Lots of people clearly enjoyed it.

The reason it gets so much flack is the camera and poor gameplay styles. If it had only Sonic and Tails and a better camera people would say Sonic jumped to 3D really well.

>>387241228
It's just my opinion. Yeah, most of the criticisms people have still have weight. Janky camera, retarded plot, and a misunderstanding of what made 2D Sonic great, you've likely heard it all before. I'd be interested in that video.

People here are talking about things it does right though, which is pretty refreshing.

>>387241380

When you put it that way, would it be fair to claim that Sonic Team was stupid and was far too ambitious?

File: fbf2.png (2MB, 1274x954px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1274x954px

>>387241409
>and a misunderstanding of what made 2D Sonic great
I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all though, they just made a different game. It couldn't get as technical as you found it if they had no idea what they were doing.

Don't get me wrong every youtuber has a video about why SA1 is an abomination. If I were to make a video I'd be defending it like I did with the Sonic OVA. Fantastic 2-episode adaptation of the classic games with top notch atmosphere, an underrated english dub that's unironically better acted than most "objectively good" dubs and the weird voice choices only help it (or you can watch the japanese one if you want typical anime VAs). Above all else fucking awesome atmosphere that nails the Ohshima feel of Sonic CD, the only big flaw was the attempt at a serious Metal Sonic subplot being rushed & bad. The rest was comedy & action driven & not plot driven so it was good.

>>387241635
No, they just made a game people found fun. The "crippling flaws" are only so crippling in a gay revisionist modern internet or to people who don't like the gameplay that much to begin with.

>>387241864
Also I don't think the other characters were that bad. Amy, E-102 & Knuckles were ok, Big should have been a minigame.

SA2 went full retard much, much more with the alternate characters.

>>387241796

>I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all though, they just made a different game. It couldn't get as technical as you found it if they had no idea what they were doing.
Yeah I think I see what you and >>387241635 are getting at. Sonic Team were unfocused.

I truly believe that if they got good people together and really took a stab at SA3, it could work. Just focus on Sonic/Tails and look at what SA1, SA2, Heroes, and 2006 did wrong very closely.

If these games were truly abominations I really wouldn't be able to find any enjoyment in them. I don't find any enjoyment in 2006, though.

>>387241973
Oh also Tails' Adventure Tails' turned tech freak character into gameplay mechanics much better than just sticking him in a mech. Really gotta play that.

File: Perfect Chaos.png (2MB, 3500x2230px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3500x2230px

THUNDAH

>>387242060
I really think it's too late depressingly enough. After the Game Grumps videos Sonic Adventure is dead in the public's eyes, people would hate it on principle even if it was executed great. Daytime Unleashed is the only approved 3D Sonic.

>>387242158
I don't mind the mech stages since they still involved platforming, I just wish the combat was better for those games.

>>387229235
fake news

>>387241973

I recently replayed SA1 and the worst parts are by far Amy's. Big's can be over in like 20min. Amy's are a complete bore.

>>387242168
RAIN AND LIGHTNING!

See I think the final Chaos fight is the kind of tween/teen pandering that works for Sonic. Not too edgy, more like a cool DBZ scene than a loony dark and emotional fanfic. After all Sonic was always inspired by Dragonball with Super Sonic and whatnot.

>>387242280

>Daytime Unleashed is the only approved 3D Sonic

I don't even understand why. You just boost. Yea, its fun and all, but its not what I personally want.

>>387242285
One issue I had is that the non lock on shooting was super boring-feeling. Sonic Team kept trying to incorporate Panzer Dragoon gameplay into Sonic and honestly E-102 is the only one where I had fun with.

>>387242428
Because trying to make a more polished Adventure is now forever tainted because SA1 is seen as inherently a disaster, platformers should just not be that way blahblah. The players & critics who liked it either outgrew online video game discussion or feel like they have to hate it or only like it as a 'guilty pleasure' etc.

I think the only thing that could work is if a fan dev who understands the flaws but is also attentive enough to game design to appreciate the good parts made a demo of sorts to show that it could work and Sega picked it up. Otherwise if Sega announced a new Adventure it would be dead on arrival the same way Ghostbusters was.

File: 1410179215960.jpg (149KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 480x480px

>>387242779

>tfw we are cursed to forever have boost sanic
please make it stop

>>387242857
Well we'll have Genesis style too after Mania's success but for 3D yeah it's just the racing type games. Which is sad to me cuz I think there's a lot of potential there.

>>387242992
people have got to get bored of it eventually right

I have no connection to the Sonic games and just played through them all when I heard that Mania was good. Sonic Adventure is a piece of shit and I still can't fucking understand what people see in the game. Music's great, locales are fun, but god fucking damn are those controls awful, ESPECIALLY given the year it came out.

>>387243207
Never had an issue with them, just the camera & glitches; if anything I take more issue with Sonic 1's controls. I played the apparently inferior DX version too.

File: 1494394066800.jpg (13KB, 421x440px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 421x440px

I played Shadow for the first time a few days ago
Literally only complaint I have is that you accelerate too fast
Some of you faggots were making it out to be boderline 06 tier

>>387243318

its nowhere near as bad as 2006 but its still bad

t. someone that actually 100%'d the game like a fucking retard

>>387243185
Oh they will which is why I don't think Forces will be a success. When I saw the stupid "classic sonic & new sonic together" bullshit again I thought "lol not this shit again".

I don't like the idea of classic Sonic being a different character because he isn't. They listened to the retarded fan meme that classic Sonic was a pure innocent baby. He was in the initial development stages as Ohshima envisioned him but SoA quickly asked to turn him into a cocky teen. But Ohshima handled the "stylish and cool, not cute and cuddly" atmosphere so well in CD I don't regret it at all.

The Sonic OVA also had a great vision of classic Sonic. He's kind of a dick and kind of annoying but does the right thing in the end. Exactly how you read a character who gets impatient, jumps off the screen and gives you a game over if you spend too much time away from the controller, or one that smugly wags his finger at you in the title screen.

File: harrison.jpg (7KB, 303x276px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 303x276px

>>387233076
>Where did "Crash is DKC" stuff start?
You know Naughty Dog openly admitted that Crash was just DKC except the camera faces the animal mascot's ass, right?

>>387243395
Well 100% it seems like a fucking chore, but I thought this shit was going to be horrible

>>387243564
They literally called the work in process "Sonic's Ass"

>>387243662
They called it Sonic's ass and not Donkey Kong's ass because Sonic was the main mascot for Sega, but Donkey Kong wasn't the main mascot for Nintendo (Mario was). They wanted Crash to be the main (unofficial) mascot for Sony. That particular label was to do with marketing, not saying that Crash plays like Sonic, because it doesn't.

It's very obvious that Crash plays like DKC (albeit in a limited form of 3D), and anybody that has even the most basic mastery of either game series knows it.

>>387243547
I want a spiritual successor to the Advance games.

>>387243876
Not really, no. The motion is very different, one favors forward momentum and the other favors precision.

It had some cool ideas as far as bringing the feel of a 2D platform game to 3D goes, co-creator Dave Siller did the same with Maximo on PS2 which was great (the first game, fuck Kurt Kalata for saying "skip the first game" & making me play & get bored by the second)

>>387244142
>one favors forward momentum and the other favors precision.
They have elements of both. It's practically tautological for a platformer.

The reason Crash is like DKC is because both games have fairly simplistic mechanics but get a reasonable amount of depth from in level design, levels that rely on specific gimmicks or themes, fairly linear levels, a similar collectible system for 100% competition, secrets are hidden in levels in a similar way, a very limited number of collectibles other than "collect 100 x to get a life", and a predominant focus on presentation (graphics and audio).

>>387244739
I mean DKC has the rolls & a run button. You get to gain and lose momentum of your movement speed but in Crash it's more basic & precise.

>>387245097
I suppose so. The roll has more momentum in DKC as you say. But that reminds me. The control of the characters is fairly similar too. They both involve killing enemies either by jumping on top of them or using a special move while knocking into them.

>>387234853
>I want the great graphics of Mania but used to make new levels. I don't even know if I want to buy it; what message will that give to Sega? That they can keep rehashing stuff, or that people like early to mid 90s Sonic and they should make a NEW game in that style? I'd fucking love that.

Buy Mania on anything you own, avoid Forces. Support the artists and developers on their work and give vocal support of original content to Sonic/SEGA social media. Give them enough clout that they can reliably say to SEGA of Japan "this was a big hit, this is how we should continue" and then kind of... cross your fingers and hope SEGA of Japan doesn't get insanely jealous of the Mania team's work paying off, I guess?

>>387243207

Yeah, I never understood why people enjoy the games and overlook the floaty controls, I simply cannot have fun with a game this broken.

It's literally just because they want to like it. If it was any other random ass character the game would be forgotten as a broken mess from a past era, but since it's sonic it is a "flawed gem that hasn't aged at all".

Fuck off, SA1 and 2 are the DEFINITION of badly aging vidya.

>>387234853
The Zones are so different though it hardly matters that they are called "Green Hill" or "Chemical Plant" when they have been so drastically altered. Not just in terms of map but the sheer amount of new gimmicks and enemies these zones have they are only similar in name.

>>387245710

>Avoid Forces

Yeah well not him but I feel like the whole BOOST Sonic thing is now uninteresting. The best games that did it were Rush and Rush Adventure. The Day Stages in Unleashed, Colors, and Generations were ok, but I am honestly in disbelief that they're still pushing BOOST Sonic.

>>387243547

Who gives a fuck

Fans who care so much about inane shit like that are the reason Sonic went from cartoony light-hearted adventury fun to CLONES WITH GUNS AND SECRET AGENTS AGAINST GENETIC MUTANTS

>>387245710
Forces honestly looks safer, "our "experiment" [read: trying to be Mario Galaxy] failed and those PS2 platformer devs fucked up the Boom game and made 06 2.0 so here's Generations again lol". I expect it to suck but if it doesn't then it'll be a surprise.

I'll get Mania but maybe a few months from now as I have maybe 2-3 other games I want more.

>>387245817

>Fuck off you literally just want to like it
Nah, get good. As I've said earlier in the thread SA2 rewards skill. No one is here saying they're flat out amazing but they have things to offer.

>>387237524
which is what people mistakenly think of the Sonic OVA dub (the voice acting there is unironically good)

Knuckles is good, Eggman is good, Sonic is passable. Can't vouch for anyone else. Only reason Tails "BODYBUOARD" Tails gets a pass is because his Jap voice is even worse

Yeah, falling through the floor 29 times a playthrough isn't badly aged at all. Nor is dealing with that supremely awful camera. Nope! Well aged.

>>387245903

>Unleashed, Colors, and Generations were ok

>ok

They're the best 3D sonic games ou there, Generations is actually a pretty great game, Colors is good, and Unleashed is ok. Anything else is trash.

>>387245817
Sounds like you just don't like the game m8. As I said, Sonic 1's controls bother me far more than Adventure and are legitimately "aged" because everything 2 onwards did it better. Fuck the first game on Master System controls better.

>>387246018

>rewards skill

It rewards trial and error. The controls are fiddly as fuck, and more than half the stage just plays itself, the other half is you trying to figure out what the game expects you to do. It's not at all skill-based, it's memory based, as in "if I don't turn right here I'll clip into the rockwall and glitch out of the map"

>>387246087

>fans complain about Sonic Adventure games being "on rails"
>...but praise BOOST sonic

I disagree. They're simply "ok". What I would be really interested is perfecting the Adventure games and addressing the issues.

For the record, the best levels in Sonic Generations were Classic Sonic's, even with the altered physics.

>>387246101

>Sonic 1's controls bother me far more than Adventure

Sonic 1 isn't that great either. Its level design and gameplay have aged considerably, but that doesn't mean Adventure hasn't either. Both games were products of their time, the difference is S1 was pretty good when it came out, outstanding when compared to its peers, whie SA1 was just prettier than the competition, but far inferior when it came to gameplay.

>>387246226

>It's not at all skill-based
Incorrect. I never had as many problems as other people but can still admit the game is jank. I've said before they're 6/10 games at best, but SA2 rewards skilled players. I still go back to SA2 every now and then because its a blast when you're actually good.

>>387246054
Sonic is great, it's a very unique and fitting voice. Moreso than the sitcom fag in AOSTH & SatAM. Just the unique inflections of the delivery add a lot of personality.

Tails is annoying yeah.

Sara isn't as bad as people say.
>>387246067
>Yeah, falling through the floor 29 times a playthrough
1. This was not the default in the 90s so it can't be an "age" problem.
2. You're obviously bullshitting. There were glitches but they were not game-breaking and the only way to can encounter that many glitches even in the glitchier DX port is if you're seeking them out the way Egoraptor did in his faggot video.

No one uses "aged' right.

File: 119nq1h.jpg (6KB, 201x216px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 201x216px

>>387246226
You remind me of some anon that was trying to tell me Mega Man isn't skill based because you have to learn from dying so its "trial and error" thus not worth a damn.

You "muh trial and error" fags need to understand that trial and error is skill building. I don't know how you guys use these mental gymnastics to justify how you suck ass.

>>387246392
I'd say a game worth being called 'a blast' is worth at least a 7/10.

>muh objective reviews

No such thing, only objective reasoning. The way it adds to to the score is subjective and depends on what you value.

>>387246481

Glitchy pieces of shit were pretty much the norm in the 90s. And I am not bullshitting in the slightest. If you avoid these infuriating glitches for an entire playthrough you are the luckiest man on earth

>>387246481
>Sonic is great, it's a very unique and fitting voice. Moreso than the sitcom fag in AOSTH & SatAM.

I can get behind that. I'd rather have OVA Sonic than Jaleel White (even if I'm a huge nostalgiawhore for Adventure of Sonic), Griffith, Drummond etc. (Though Roger Craig was obviously cast for a slightly different idea of what Sonic should be, he gets more of a pass.)

>>387246634
Well all I know is that I didn't enjoy SA2 the way I do now until I got really good at it. It's what it is, but for me I'd rather replay SA2 or get another game like it with the issues observed and corrected than play another BOOST Sonic. I feel like this is a reasonable opinion, but you have people here throwing hyperbole around like usual so hey its what it is.

>>387243207
>>387245817
While I do like SA1 a bit more because the Sonic levels felt like a pretty good attempt at making a 3D translation of the 16-bit level structure, I absolutely abhor SA2.

While Sonic's game in SA1 had big areas you could mess around in, find rings and items off the intended track and even sequence break a bit, SA2 made Sonics levels a race track with fuck all to do in them but speed boost forward and pray to god the homing attack/lightspeed dash worked as intended.

Tails in SA1 played like a slightly altered version of Sonic with a bigger focus on flying but the levels were still more open. Good. In SA2 he and Eggman were in the most tedious and monotonous shooter stages I've ever seen in a game before or since.

Gamma's stage's were just as lame as the SA2 shooting stages but they were faster, shorter, and fewer.

Amy was actually a neat gimmick with the focus being on trying to get away. Knuckle's stages were MUCH less tedious and retarded than in SA2, mainly because they were actually the same levels as Sonic and Tails and not cluttered fever dreams of bullshit like in SA2.

Big sucks. Big sucks MUCH ass but, again, at least it's short. The biggest thing is that you CHOOSE to play Big so you at the very least get in the mindset of "ok. I'm willingly choosing to play Big". SA2 just slaps you in the dick and says "You like Sonic? Nah. Play Tails now."

I have ZERO fond memories of SA2 and I feel like a crazy person when I see so many others actually liking it and defending it

>>387246793
I did many times and I played the dog shit PC version of DX. I'll have to emulate the Dreamcast one and see what it's like.

>>387246392

Again, you're confusing skill with memorization. It's not a hard game at all to play, the mastery comes from learning exactly how the game wants you go play each level, and that's for the Sonic/Shadow action stages.

Boss Battles are fucking laughable. If you're doing what the game wants they're piss fucking easy. The hardest aspect of boss battles is the shitty camera.

Emerald hunt stages are completely randomized, so the difficulty comes with getting to know the map and dealing with the bullshit 1-at-a-time radar

And Mecha stages are literally hold B to win.

>>387246576

Trial and error is part of skill building. Mega Man is a hard game by itself, you're not struggling against what the devs expect you to do, you always know where you have to go and what you have to do: the difficulty comes from the challenges presented before you.

Sonic Adventure has no real challenge, it's just "jump here, run there" in the Sonic stages, so your literal only challenge is memorizing the stage. The high-speed parts play themselves, and because of the shitty camera it's impossible to know what's coming, especially in the parts you're running TOWARDS the fucking thing, so it's not that much about quick reaction, and more about knowing when to move where.

>>387246916
Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles control how I would expect them to in 3D.

>>387246576

It's bait. There's this weird vocal opinion that the marketing for Sonic being about speed was betrayed by the player being expected to get better at the game to be rewarded with momentum. It's a widespread opinion parroted frequently, but when parroted it always leads to the blind spot of 'every other game and platformer rewards skill and practice with forward momentum'.

>>387246916

Exact same opinion. SA1 isn't a great game, but I can have fun playing it. SA2 is a game I finished once just for completionism's sake, but am never touching again.

>>387246941
Sonic 2 is fairly easy too.

>>387247138

For most of the game, yeah, but the last few stages are bullshit, and the last boss is pretty hard.

>>387246837
Dude AOSTH is a legit good show, not just nostalgically. The more serious fanfiction-type Sonic fans just hate on it because it's not something you can point at and go "ACTUALLY DAD, THIS CARTOON IS PRETTY MATURE" or say it has a "plot" like SatAM and X.

I don't like Sonic's voice or the fact that they used the stupid American design for classic Sonic, which is why I rank it below the OVA, but the cartooning in the show is goddamn fantastic. You can tell it was run by people who love and actually understand classic Looney Tunes-type cartoons. It's just so full of fun inventive visual gags and the characters' poses are expressions are amazingly inventive, there's a reason the show became a reaction image goldmine.

It's great in the same way an old surreal Popeye short from the 30s is great.

>>387247252
My point is, I don't think Sonic Adventure is so easy that you can't fail, and it's lack of difficulty allows a number of ways to complete a level.

Just like Sonic 2.

>>387246941

>Again, you're confusing skill with memorization. It's not a hard game at all to play, the mastery comes from learning exactly how the game wants you go play each level, and that's for the Sonic/Shadow action stages.

So you're saying you have poor memory? You still need good reaction timing. This is a poor argument though I do see where you're coming from. You can't accept that a good memory factors into skill. That's okay. It's alright to be wrong, anon.

>Boss Battles are fucking laughable. If you're doing what the game wants they're piss fucking easy. The hardest aspect of boss battles is the shitty camera.
Boss battles are laughable in practically every non-actionshooter platformer. Take Mario for example. Same thing.

>Emerald hunt stages are completely randomized, so the difficulty comes with getting to know the map and dealing with the bullshit 1-at-a-time radar

Yeah, again, having a good memory rewards the player. I don't see the issue here. Hell, when you play the stages enough you know where to look.

>And Mecha stages are literally hold B to win.
Eh, its a bit more complicated than that. It's the weakest of the three gameplay types for sure but getting A Rank on some of the missions is still fun and not as easy as you're claiming here. You'd know this if you 100%'d the game.

Look you can admit you don't have the memory or patience to put up with this 6/10 game. I do, and I think its alright and could benefit from some improvements. To completely throw away Adventure was a mistake because I really believe in the right hands the style could be made great.

>>387247348
It is nearly on the same level as modern day CN shows.

>>387246867
"this game's only good once you get really good at it" is a silly reason to take down a point from something IMO, I don't think that's a bad thing.
>>387247045
I used to be one of those people sadly but I realized that the best Sonic levels are designed so that you will naturally learn the level layout if you explore for rings during your first runthrough. Once you're done with that, replays are for speedrunning.

>>387247535
It's not because cartoons like that only existed in the post Bakshi Mighty Mouse/Ren & Stimpy era. Modern CN is boring writing cartoons by hipsters.

>>387247656

If you say so. I still enjoy SA2. I've been posting throughout the thread defending it. I'm just honest and feel that many of the criticisms people have in this thread are valid, others are vastly exaggerated.

To me, its a 6/10. I love it but I mean, that's just how I feel.

>>387247348
>Dude AOSTH is a legit good show
Its as shit as everything that isnt the OVA

>>387247348

Learning the credentials of Milton Knight helped greatly to understand the context of the show. As a fan of Looney Tunes at a young age I enjoyed the show a lot more and managed to handwave some weird takes on old jokes (like the infamous pumpkin-woman). Later on (and before I saw the Robotnik model sheet) I wondered how the fuck a licensed videogame property would turn into such a 1940's throwback in the first place. Nowadays I'm still endeared to the background design and antagonists' character designs; the designs I love but the voices for Robotnik's sidekicks grate like hell, in stark contrast to Long John Baldry. It definitely feels like a cartoon where the protagonists are the most lifeless characters.

>>387247891
Sonic Boom and Sonic X are good in their own ways.

If you had the best of both you would have the perfect Sonic toon.

I personally enjoyed moving the characters around in SA1 (and SA2 to an extent), but I thought the level design to fit these characters was shit, at least in SA1. SA2 was a bit better, but the characters felt slightly stiffer, plus Emerald hunting is a total drag. I thought that Sonic Heroes did pretty well in regards to both of these; although a lot of stuff remains mostly the same between each character, it took the character variations of SA1 and the ranks of SA2 (plus the bonus stages and chaos emeralds of classic Sonic) and made for a pretty good experience. What did you guys think?

>>387247815
That's my point dude. Your score should be YOUR score, not trying to go by some universal objective scoring metric. There's no such thing, it's always gonna be subjective and it's better to embrace that subjectivity.
>>387247891
It's more that I enjoy it as a goofy cartoon that happens to have the Sonic license attached to it. OVA is the most accurate to the games while also being technically well made in a way that X wasn't (and it didn't have a self insert kid, people don't like Sara but she's obviously meant to be a dumb silly air head while Chris was meant to be the kid watching).

In all honesty I started playing Sa2 on steam to pass time before Mania.
The game is not bad, but my standards are higher then before.
After playing shit like spyros and 3d marios, adventure 2 story mode gets boring quickly.
Speed stages are where the game gives its best, but they are so few compared to even super mario sunshine, typically the black sheep of its family.
The same can be said about crash and croc: I have good memories about them but fuck me i am not going to 100% them ever again.

>>387229235

>chadgehog

>>387247974
> (like the infamous pumpkin-woman)
lol fuck the lame ass doug walker video that turned that into a meme, it's just typical black & white cartoon stuff.
>>387248147
Sonic X had a good first episode but the self insert kid bullshit & melodrama held it back as did the largely poor animation and art direction. There's some cool bits here and there but it's more of a "youtube clips" show.

People will fucking hate me for this but Boom has the same kind of "clever" writing as Animaniacs which is actually just half decent and the latter show was good because of the synced-up orchestral music & animation. Like a really good comedian telling a meh joke someone else wrote.

Boom lacks the good animation, it's very wooden & basic & generic SFM vid-tier, and the design work for it is awful. The original characters look like they came out of Toontown Online.

>>387247458

I did, I finished it with really no effort at all, but the only replayability factor is "try to do this stage but faster" which doesn't mean getting better at playing the game, but getting to know the stage.

>So you're saying you have poor memory?

Are you retarded? I'm saying the ONLY challenge in the game comes from memory. Take somethign like Mega Man, you actually need to not only memorize patterns, but get better at dodging and counter-attacking if you want to get good. In Sonic the core gameplay is piss easy, the challenge comes from struggling with the clunkiness and knowing exactly what the devs wanted you to do. It's not hard, it's just annoying.

If you can enjoy it, good for you, but don't come spouting the "hurr it requires skill to be fully appreciated" bullshit. it requires wasting your time, that's what it does.

>>387248179
Yeah, nah, I find it underrated but no way is Heroes better than SA1. Too much "ok slow down and press this button, ok kill these enemies with health bars" bullshit.

>>387248501
It is one of the best western cartoons ongoing right now.

>>387248636
I just feel that generally people go "OMG LOL" at it mainly to see their internet memes in a kids' show like Eggman saying pignas or whatever.

I honestly barely watch western TV cartoons, TV animation in general is pretty boring now. I watch stuff to watch it not for the "watch it with others as it goes on" online viewing experience.

>>387248782
>TV animation in general is pretty boring now
probably because 90% of western animation is that sameface calarts hentai flash shit

>>387248220
That's the thing. SA2 came AFTER the 3D platformer had been worked out. Rayman 2 came out two years prior! Look at all the PS1 games that pre-date it.
Sonic Adventure 1 was their ONE Mulligan, SA2 should have been much much more refined.

Everything about it is sloppy and thin. Maybe it was because they rushed it because of the Dreamcast's clear and imminent failure. But the game has been ported several times since then and it's STILL shit.

I wasn't young enough to imprint on it the way most of its fans have I guess.

>>387229235
maybe people think its bad since its a glitchy mess where not even half of the game is good. not gonna read ur entire post when in the end its still a mess of a game

File: chemicalplantzone.jpg (18KB, 256x179px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 256x179px

While we're on a good Sonic thread, I need to vent, because I think I'm the only fucker that hates Chemical Plant Zone. And it's not even all awful

Act 1:
>different branching paths based on how you make/time jumps, rewards with difficulty and items
>speed through the level naturally if you don't entirely fuck it up
>if you fuck it up to an enemy or spikes, then you can get your rings and get right back on track
>just about perfect pacing for the third act in the game

Then Act 2 comes up
>make a mistake on any higher-level path or just take the normal route and you end up in the water
>slows gameplay to a crawl as you wait for jank-ass blocks to rotate while trying to not drown
>several floor traps that will send you back into the water if you're not careful
>possible to insta-die on the second boss, even if you've beaten him already

Why is the second zone of the game this punishing? Even Marble Zone wasn't this tedious (well beside the lava parts)

>>387248179
Too much of Heroes draaaaags on. I remember getting bored with levels long before they ended, which in turn made me too impatient to play properly.

>>387249038
extremely good post, I am effectively owned good sir

>>387249126
You're exactly right.

Nah man it was hot garbage.

I got Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure, and D2 for my Dreamcast. And while I still bring out the system for Kenji Eno's nightmare and Namco pokey sticks I barely forced my way through Sonic Adventure back in the day and I could not wait for it to be over god damn what a piece of shit.

>>387249426
Do you like any 3D Sonic games?

>>387249426
Well, you were in the minority. People overwhelmingly enjoyed it when it came out.

>>387249636
lol

File: lol.png (60KB, 779x746px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 779x746px

>>387249723
truly the epicest of fails

>>387248535

I dont believe that you 100%d the game but youre still missing the point that memory does factor into skill.

>>387249126
Water in Sonic is an inherently poor idea because unlike Mario it doesn't offer a new set of mechanics, it just slows you down.

>>387236742
>>387236816
That explains a lot.

>>387250229
>it doesn't offer a new set of mechanics, it just slows you down
It increases jump height and starts the drowning timer, which is some extra pressure.
Water is to be avoided though, it's an obstacle in how it slows you, but almost every level with water in it has a path that avoids it entirely.

>>387229235
The idea of a Sonic Adventure 1 style game with the gameplay design philosophy from Sonic Utopia makes me cum but it's never going to happen.

>>387251459
Utopia is a cool demo but I'm very skeptical about how they'd base a full game around that.

>>387252779
Objective based rather than goal based.

The Adventure games sort of had this with their alternate missions, so the solution would be to focus more on that

>>387252779
>>387253052
Actually there is a freeware game worth checking out called Zineth, which also could be a basis for a 3D Sonic game. (Or at least an open world Jet Set Radio)

>>387253287
Now that I remember, the team that made that later made Sonic Dreams Collection.

This is actually pretty damn ironic.

All I know is sonic adventure 2 had rouge the bat who I've been jacking off to for over 15 years.

File: 9086a594d01f30f6b4c2c61bc8e2456f.jpg (521KB, 759x1000px) Image search: [Google]

521KB, 759x1000px

>>387253580
Rouge is great and I wish she was in better games

I gotta say compared to SA2, SA1 is a horribly designed piece of trash and that's really saying something considering SA2's flaws. The audio, visuals, story, voice acting, animations, camera, level design, game pacing, practically everything barring a few songs is a horrific assault on the senses.

While I'm posting unpopular opinions, Sonic The Fighters looks great

>>387255317
Thinking SA2 is better is such a terrible opinion

>>387234853
Pocket Adventure was Mania before it happened

>>387236683
you and your GF will never get the BBC, eXcito

>>387255317
SA1 has a roll button and SA2 doesn't.
SA1 > SA2

>>387234853
They should cater to both audiences at once.
Make a game that plays like the classics, but have all of the lovable aspects about the Adventure era.

Advance please

>>387229235
SA1 aged like milk. I loved it when it launched, but I played it recently and boy its fucking rough. That doesn't make it a bad game.

At least until this thread I haven't seen people get defensive about it like they are with DMC1

>>387255924
no I highly disagree, I think the good visual aspects of SA1 and even 2 are pretty specific to 3D, same for the 2D games

>>387256756
Sonic looks fine in 2D.

File: 1351849730936.gif (2MB, 446x252px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 446x252px

>>387255913
>SA1 has a roll button

How can SA2 even compete? SA felt like they tried to brought classic Sonic physics to the third dimension.

File: broken_sonic_dream.jpg (42KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 600x800px

>>387258870
that was the idea actually. However hardware and time limitation and probably pressure from SEGA higher ups stopped that. That's why windy valley "beta" was so different from the final version.
In SA2 they stopped giving a fuck since the dreamcast was dying, and took everything shitty about adventure and pumped it to 11

>>387258506
Talking about the semirealistic environments and textures taken from photos during their vacation, would look weird in 2D

>>387259805
I am talking about Advance and Rush.

>>387259695
>windy valley "beta"
I've no idea about that one.

>>387260909
I am hoping that sonic Utopia true stages will be something like that, only with more paths

>>387229419

the controls are still tight

>>387229724
Just fucking play the version of Sonic 1 with the spindash added

Boom

Game is perfectly fine.

>>387236742
oshima only supervised the CGI opening tough

File: 1480602918531.jpg (112KB, 422x650px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 422x650px

Sonic Adventure 2 was fantastic had a good story and was superior to the first one in every way besides the opening.

Shame about hope they continue the story in an actual Adventures 3 and not consign Sonic 2006 as Adventures 3

>>387259695
>In SA2 they stopped giving a fuck

Shit got even worse when we entered the boost era. Sonic physics became slipping soap.

I kind of wish they didn't throw in all those awful levels in lost world.