Is Andrew Ryan he most ideologically complex villain? His views

>>387190326
>villain

wasnt he possessed by the golf club or something?

>>387190373
He nationalized industry, fucktard. Of course he's the villain. He had his Ancap paradise and he ruined it by becoming the government.

>>387191002
>ywn be a lion cub in a poo cradle

Yeah, especially the subtle af name

>>387190326
>his plans were not absurd at all even by real life standards
He built a massive, underwater city.

>>387191483
Far easier than build a small colony in mars, yet everyone think is realistic.

>>387190326
Well he is just personification of philosophy called "objectivism", although he made choices against it`s principles (external trade ban, nationalization, other uses of violence).

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I just like how black and white the politics were. It wasn't completely "lol objectivism is dum xD" or "lol collectivism is dum xD." Ryan wanted an Objectivist society, but the introduction of organized crime and a civil war by Fontaine forced Ryan's hand into becoming the very thing he hated. Although I doubt any of this was intentional because Infinite proved that Ken Levine is a hack and stole the twist about Atlas straight from System Shock 2. And the fact that he wrote SS2 goes to show that he isn't original either if he has to reuse his own work.

>>387190898
Fontaine ruined it because surprise UNIONS ARE NOTHING BUT MOB THUGS WHO FUCK EVERYTHING UP. But Ken Levine will say some shit about evil ancapistan

>>387190898
>i hate capitalism and freedom

>>387190326
>Is Andrew Ryan he most ideologically complex villain?
>ideologically complex
what. objectivism is easy mode. if you can't grasp it you're a literal brainlet. evidenced by the many attacks on the author herself.

>villain
only if he violated the NAP

>Is Andrew Ryan he most ideologically complex villain?

No, that would be Wallace Breen.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFU6hxFfJac

>>387193741
>reading too deep into a tech demo: the video

For games, probably. However that's a really low bar. Unfortunately due to the intense pressure from publishers and the general gaming market, it's probably as deep and complex as we'll go.

>>387192561
>Declaring your business rivals criminals and having them arrested by your secret police and then seizing their company is capitalism
Ebin

>>387194305
Is that not capitalism?

>>387194305
This is why Objectivists, and Libertarians, favor a limited government charged with arbitration of legal disputes and policing. Privately owned "police" lead to gang warfare.

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Is Solidus Snake he most ideologically complex villain?

His views are solid, developed and realistic, yes he was a bit of an extremist but his plans were not absurd at all even by real life standards.

>>387194458
No, that's crony-capitalism, don't mistake that and actual capitalism.

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>>387190326
He was an idealist, who became broken by the fact that he had to embody the very values he despised when his creation went beyond his vision.

He didn't understand that naive free-market economic philosophy can only evolve into panicked authoritarianism when things don't go according to plan.

He also didn't realize that stripping out the morals from a system makes things like ideologized altruism incredibly attractive for those who end up betrayed by the system.

>>387194742
delicious complexity

>>387194742
>naive free-market economic philosophy can only evolve into panicked authoritarianism
no

what he failed to realize is people are essentially animals, interested in bettering their own situation even at the expense of others. it's necessary to have an impartial (ie. entirely separated from economic pressures) court to arbitrate disputes between economic actors.

our (United States) mixed economy makes it absolutely impossible for courts to be anything resembling unbiased.

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I unironically want an open world Bioshock RPG.

>>387195329
>open world Bioshock
I need you to not

>>387195417
The original Bioshock was basically open world. You could take a bathosphere to all previously visited areas of rapture

>>387195582
>The original Bioshock was basically open world.
ummm

>>387192561
How did what I said imply that I hate capitalism? I said that anti-capitalist practices ruined the fictional city.

>>387195582
Jesus. Hallways are not open-world anon. Making it easier to visit said hallways is not open-world.

>>387195639
Did you read the rest of my reply or did you not finish it so you could quickly write your non-argument?

Not every open world game is a Ubisoft collectithon, you underaged faggot.

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>Bioshock went from an immersive sim-lite to a generic shooter with 3 and got better rating
There is no hope for video games.

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>>387195867
>bioshock
>all hallways

Wanna talk hallways?

>>387195876
>The original Bioshock was basically open world. You could take a bathosphere to all previously visited areas of rapture
ummmmmm

>>387190326
>creating a utopian city at the bottom of the ocean
>not absurd at all even by real life standards

>>387195582
Put me in the screencap

>>387191261
>Andrew Ryan
>Always Lyin

How did I not notice?

>>387195884
Bioshock was never good to begin with and I prefer it trying to do its own thing like it was in Infinite rather than just poorly copying System Shock 2. At least Infinite had some ideas of its own even if they were poorly executed. Bioshock is literally just System Shock 2 but worse.

I would vote for andrew ryan

>>387195956
>Bioshock Finite

What people fail to realize is that game is 100% about the presentation and "exciting" FPS combat; 0% about actually challenging gameplay. You cannot die; there are endless mulligans. No boss is insurmountable. No puzzle requires cogitation.

It's essentially playing out a silly movie, but it's still a lot more game-ish than a Telltale "game". And the original PC version still looks fantastic.

>>387195307
He did not even come close to the realization that you need impartial regulatory bodies (which is a highly debatable notion). If anything, he was an advocate for total totalitarianism by the time he died.

Ryan was inevitably crushed by the fact that in trying to save his dream, he ended up strangling it

>>387195981

You could visit any part of the map, none of it was locked out (except the entrance area). That's open world.

>>387196215
>You cannot die
excuse me that shitty invincible ghost killed me a lot on 1999 mode because it's a bullet sponge piece of shit

Prey is better than Bioshock

>>387195867

"open world" is a concept bigger than hallways, if you can visit all the hallways in a game without having your previous progress locked off it is open world since the player is free ("open") to go anywhere they've previously been. Meanwhile games that have open spaces, but don't allow the player the ability to return to them, are not open world. A good example of the latter is Deus Ex, which is not open world but has very open levels.

>>387192395
>freedom is a one way street

Good goy.

>>387196506
Ghost is hard as fuck but that game would be actual murder if you had to load in from the Main Menu after every death

Bioshock Infinite gives you a mulligans because casuals; beating that game just means you put in the hours.

>>387196572
>spiritual successor to System Shock #43789 is better than spiritual successor to System Shock #43687
wew

Also, fuck off shill. Prey bombed and will NEVER EVER get a sequel.

>>387196468
>You could visit any part of the map
>That's open world.
ummmmmmm

>>387195307
Ryan understood perfectly that most people were selfish and self-serving. He mistakenly thought that that he could handpick a society of elites that would not be.

The ultimate lesson is that human nature is inescapable. He thought he could escape his issues on the surface, but for better and for worse all he did was raise the stakes by making the average person involved that much more competent.

super mario world confirmed for open world

>>387196572
from what I've seen of the new play everything is pretty good except the guns and enemies. there's like two actual firearms in the game (pistol and shotgun) and everything else is just goo gun and wrench, while the two main enemies are the little fucks who change into stuff and the big guys.

I'm sure you get more of each of those as the games goes on, but from what I saw there was just too much of the game that just had those little guns and those little enemies and that seems pretty boring. shame because it looks really good on every other front.

>>387196657

It doesn't give you mulligans though. When I fought that piece of shit ghost and died, I didn't get my ammo back.

>>387196698
>sales = quality
Also remind yourself that SS2 bombed hard too

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>>387196718

your comments don't make sense

>>387194736
>not real capitalism!
Wew lad

>>387196832
Great point. Now we just have to wait 20 years for Prey to get a cult following and get a sequel. Wow, what a win for such a great game.

>>387194305
The rich capitalists who hired strikebreakers would have gladly done this if they could get away with it

>>387196951
There's nothing capitalist about murdering the competition. It's not crony-capitalist, it's just fucking murder. Capitalists win by playing within the rules of the game.

>>387196881
soz meant for >>387196468
>>387196637
>>387196468
>>387195876
>>387195582

>>387196954
>implying I want a sequel

The whole point of Rapture's fall is that Ryan's ideology wasn't realistic. Yeah, it would have worked out if Ryan had stuck to his beliefs, but anyone in his position would have done what he did because human emotion and self-preservation triumph in the end. He wasn't gonna let Fontaine overtake him, even though his own ideology said he should. That's why objectivism doesn't work, it assumes people are robots.

>>387197027
>Capitalists win by playing within the rules of the game
Andrew literally made and changed the rules as he saw fit

>>387197027
Harming others for profit is intrinsically capitalist.

>>387197090
>That's why objectivism doesn't work, it assumes people are robots.
No. Jesus. Objectivism EXPLICITLY ALLOWS for the arbitration (translation; two fuckers coming to an agreement) of disputes between parties by an IMPARTIAL court administered and provided by a central government. It is necessary to have an authority to arbitrate such disputes, because without one the inevitable solution is violence.

It is important this government be disconnected, utterly and completely, from the economy, by the same methods and for the same reasons the United States government is severed from religion.

>>387196951
Capitalism shouldn't involve getting the government to fuck over your enemies. Sorry you're /r/socialism memes don't apply to real life.

>>387197090
Not entirely. Ryan approved of Fontaine's endeavors until he discovered the smuggling component, which he felt endangered Rapture's existence and thus set them at odds.

>>387197498
>my capitalism that is different from Bioshock or RL is the real capitalism!
And I am the filled with memes

>>387197784
Not an argument.

>>387197240
Actually it's not. It's intrinsically a violation of the NAP.

Economic "harms" ie. losing money to bad speculation or other mismanagement is capitalist, sure. Capitalism is a merciless system that guarantees punishment for the careless, absent mercy by the other party. In capitalism there is always another human being in every deal that can be appealed to, if nothing else.

In the end the government provides for the protection of everyone's person. By non-state actors anyway.

>>387197865
>Post a non-argument
>gets upset when the response is also a non-argument
And yes, statements that go 'nuh uh' with no explanation or evidence is not an argument

>>387197498
>shouldn't
The problem is that if you really want something, then you dont care about shouldn't, you only care about couldn't. This isn't atlas shrugged where all the main characters are moral gods.You want to be rich, you have to do what if fucking takes.
>/r/socialism meme
so now you are just going to do the classic ad hominem and baseless claims act. very nice

>>387198006
Capitalism has a very specific set of rules to what it is. Having the state arrest your business enemies is not something any actual capitalist supports, it's against the free market. Enjoy your shitposting, I won't bother replying again.

>>387197498
If I am able to do it, then according to my enlightened self-interest, I should. By definition that is good for the economy.

>>387197683
Which is the whole point of Rapture of letting people do what they want. If anything Ryan shouldn't play governor and let Rapture get discovered eventually

>>387197306
>It is important this government be disconnected
this is impossible, the government is ultimately run by people, and as anon pointed out people are not robots.
People in the government are just as corruptible as other people.
you cant separate the government from its people

>>387198283
That specific notion of a free market has never and never will exist

>>387192006
theyre about the same difficulty tbfam

>>387198283
>Having the state arrest your business enemies is not something any actual capitalist supports
Too bad Bioshock and the real world disagrees heavily with that statements

>>387190381
>wasnt he possessed by the golf club or something?
what?

>>387197306
Government is evil, unless it protects the rich and their ability to continue to be rich

>>387198338
Untrue or Rapture didn't need to be a hidden society in the first place. Ryan's experiences with the world at large were what lead him to go for the whole "elite underwater society" bit in the first place, and ignoring that is how you can reach that conclusion.

He believed that only a chosen few in secrecy could operate his ideal. Allowing a smuggling operation which profited under the very premise of potentially compromising that secrecy would be blasphemy.

Mind you, he is still a hypocrite in the end, but at the very least his support-turned-opposition to Fontaine is not.

>>387198340
Maybe you can quote me in full some time Mr. Goalposts.

The government simply must get out of the business of investing in business. No more subsidies, no more endless regulation. We have a legal system for people to bring grievances. We have alphabet agencies with the authority to walk into private organizations without notice and inspect their assholes. What we DON'T need is a skyscraper of paper dictating how every business conduct itself, how it hire others, what price it sells things at, IF it can sell anything at all, who it can sell too, what terms that sale can have, and on, and on, etc. ad infinitum.

Just economic laws can fit on a legal pad.

>>387198427
Because pure capitalism doesn't exist IRL

>>387190326
>ripoff the works of a crazy cunt with some of the weakest ideologies around
>get praised by virgins with 0 knowledge in philosophy and literature

>>387198492
Onerous government regulations hurt small businesses the most. They do not have the cash to employ a phalanx of lawyers to guarantee compliance with every regulation. This is nothing for Wal*Mart, which undoubtedly had a small army on retainer for this and any other legal situation.

>>387198551
>Allowing a smuggling operation which profited under the very premise of potentially compromising that secrecy would be blasphemy.
Which is the whole flaw of the city desu.

Ryan could always plan for a Rapture 2.0 backup plan knowing that Fontaine would eventually expose the city. In the end Ryan got too attached to the city and whatever it represented to him

>>387198776
Which again, See>>387196951

>>387198635
Yeah fuck these needless alphabet agencies preventing me from dumping industrial waste into a river until the city can't treat it properly and then selling bottled water at a 10000% markup

>>387198635
>selling flashlights for $500 during a natural disaster is ok

i mean i believe it is but the large majority of people dont

people dont want pure capitalism, and they never will.

>>387190326

>Ayn Rand style libertarian
>ideologically complex

I mean, even if I didn't think libertarianism and ancaps in general were retarded, their ideology boils down to "live and let live" which is not really complex at all.

>>387196215
I really enjoy infinite, I get the hate behind it, but it's a solid game.

>>387198809
And a perfect True Capitalist© society would never have laws influenced by big business lobbyists to prevent small businesses from becoming future competition because: _________

>>387198991
>maximizing individual liberty
>"retarded"
you might be the retarded one, m8

>>387198971
your example is i believe hyperbolic, citation needed. price gouging does happen though, and it's a normal function of the market as your rightly note. it still serves it's purpose of sending goods where they are needed most, even in an impossible import situation.

>>387198962
I'm actually defending the authority of EPA and FDA to conduct (warranted) investigations of businesses without notice, fuckstain. It's impossible or extremely dangerous for a company to fuck around in this environment.

>>387199343

You're right. We should go with maximum individual liberty and abolish all laws, including those that forbid murder.

Oh wait, it's almost like liberties and freedoms aren't an absolute, objective good and some controls need to be put on individual freedoms for society and the individuals that live within it to flourish.

>>387190326
>using your ideologies to create your dream Utopia city
>get mad when people don't go by your rules (as expected)
>but don't even follow your own rules and go against your beliefs
>"i didin du nuffin"


?

>>387199343
the example isnt hyperbole and you also fail to address the actual point behind it

this is what i get for trying to have a discussion on /v/.

>>387199180
because an Objectivist society would not have economy lobbying, because the government would have no authority to regulate economic activity. All they can do is investigate allegations of abuse, fraud, ie. criminal behavior, enforce sanctions if criminal behavior is found, and arbitrate disputes between people engaged in economic activity, ie. businesses. They would have no power, for example, to prevent people from forming a company on their own provided they provide the capital, meet all (reasonable) registrations requirements, etc.

Right now the government can stop you from conducting commerce; their only justification can boil down to "Fuck you; that's why." They use this argument to seize your goods and even jail you.

>>387198390
Eat shit, lib.

>>387199542
post a citation then. i am merely reaffirming your point fwiw.

>>387199515
>that shitty strawman
murdering someone violates that person's freedom, dipshit.

>>387199703
tl;dr the government should provide the minimum protections for business owners to do business and absolutely nothing else

Civil liberties?
Welfare?
Schooling?
Roads?
Power?
Infrastructure?
Labor laws?
Who needs 'em? All that shit's for the goys!

>>387199790

>murdering someone violates that person's freedom, dipshit.

But preventing me from murdering someone also violates my freedom to murder someone. So, who's freedoms take priority?

This is why libertarianism is retarded. It's all "hurr durr muh liberty" unless it's liberty you don't like, then we should outlaw it.

>Oh wait, it's almost like liberties and freedoms aren't an absolute, objective good and some controls need to be put on individual freedoms for society and the individuals that live within it to flourish.

>>387197027
What rules? Government overregulation? That shit kills economic power & initiative. Let the invisible hand of the market dictate the rules.

>>387200020
The true redpill against libertarianism is realizing that it really only protects the interests of the rich and powerful and then brands that "liberty"

>>387198437
>he couldn't read the subtext

>>387198437
You didn't notice that the second the golf club was broken, Ryan died?

>>387196215
The gameplay was shit, but damn was the characters, story and art beautiful. They should just make it a movie.

>>387199981
>Civil liberties?
Literally still protected. Guaranteed employment is not "liberty" btw.

>Welfare?
>Schooling?
>Roads?
>Power?
>(Private) Infrastructure?
Really not a good or proper function of government

>Labor laws?
Most jobs require me to lift 20 lbs and work on my feet. This hardly seems like an unreasonable requirement. I think labor laws protect workers very well in the US. Monetary compensation in suits is common and often generous.

>>387199981
Oh yeah, and never mind that there would be absolutely nothing stopping a rich enough group or individual from steamrolling such a weak government with lobbying and direct bribery.

>>387200110

Basically, yeah. When they talk about all the liberties under their perfect laissez-faire gubmint, they really mean glorious freedoms such as the freedom to work for literal pennies a day, or the freedom to starve in the streets, or die of the flu! Truly, what a utopia!

>>387200294

>Oh yeah, and never mind that there would be absolutely nothing stopping a rich enough group or individual from steamrolling such a weak government with lobbying and direct bribery.

This, for fuck's sake.

>>387200280

>LITERALLY handwaving the basis of western society, fucking schools, roads, and electricity as "not a proper function of government"

This is why I said libertarianism was retarded in the first place.

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>>387200020
Your strawman and twisted logic is fucking stupid, you goddamn dialtone. You think you're being clever, but you're just being summer, like the true dipshit you are.

Non-Aggression Principal: not initiating violence on a person. Starting a fight, ie, killing someone is a violation of the NAP.

You are a stupid fucking parasite, and I hope you die. I really do hope you stop existing.

>>387200457
>basis of western society,
>fucking schools, roads, and electricity

no it's actually the legal protections individuals enjoy in a mostly-just and peaceful society with (limited) economic freedom

>muh roadz
the first trans-national highway was privately funded, look it up.

>>387200469

Stay as mad as you like, man. Who's going to enforce the NAP? The mean ole gubmint? Doesn't that encroach on my "beating the shit out of someone" liberties? You dirty statist!

>>387200635
Who zones the roads (aka whose property are they fucking built on)? Who maintains them? Roads actually degrade fairly quickly and need constant, expensive upkeep. If I pay for them as a business owner, why would I pay for roads to anything other than my own business?

>>387200635

>no it's actually the legal protections individuals enjoy in a mostly-just and peaceful society with (limited) economic freedom

No actually I don't think that matters if you don't have a school to learn what those protections are, roads with which to have effective freedom of travel, and not even fucking electricity to read a book past sundown.

>the first trans-national highway was privately funded, look it up.

Yeah? And roads have been state funded since the Roman fucking Empire, look it up. There's no way a highway system like the United States currently enjoys could have been privately funded, regardless of whether or not ONE highway was privately funded however long ago.

>>387200280
>Welfare?
>Schooling?
>Roads?
>Power?
>(Private) Infrastructure?
>Really not a good or proper function of government
Translation: if you're not rich, live in filth like a dog and work like a serf for the people who are. This is all libertarianism is.

>>387200635
>highway
>a basically straight road with minimal zoning issues
damn howd they pull that off

>>387200858

The question isn't about who builds the roads, it's who builds the rail-ways. Because there's no way you can privatize the rail lines without it become a huge clusterfuck. Everyone always go on about the roads in an ancap society but i'd like to see how they explain how private railways work.

>>387201000

4chan's hard-on for taking corporate cock will never cease to amaze me.

>>387200858
>Who zones the roads (aka whose property are they fucking built on)?
Whoever explicitly allows it.

>Who maintains them?
The property owners, or whoever owns the road if they are not the same. Funds can be raised by toll.

>why would I pay for roads to anything other than my own business?
You need to connect your business by road to all your consumers

A road that goes nowhere is worthless. Market forces absent distortions (ie subsidies to build a private road) will ensure a road that is better than no road at all.

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>>387200179
I like you.

>>387201081
I never even considered railways, because I don't know how they work. It's almost like the world is a complex place, and public funding solves thousands of issues that we don't even have to be aware of.

...NAH RON PAUL 2012

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>>387201123
> a road that is better than no road at all.
Sounds state of the art! Much better than what we currently have!

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>>387201000
>“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/89275.Fr_d_ric_Bastiat

>>387201353

>let's have private individuals run all those things
>that totally won't devolve into a totalitarian aristocratic system with the super-rich running everything and shitting on everyone else!

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>>387201351
Yeah just look at these wonderful government made roads!

>it's an "underage fedora memelords who have no clue what they're talking about unironically defend socialism and communism" episode

>>387197498
Banana republics say otherwise

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>>387190326
>Is Andrew Ryan he most ideologically complex villain?
Play the very first Deus Ex.
It's villains are literally the modern day U.S. NSA.

>>387201116
Especially considering it is one of the few platforms least corrupted by corporations

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>>387201492
It's so much fun driving on these high quality roads

>>387201531
I hate reruns.

>>387201531

>IF THE STATE DOES ANYTHING IT'S SOCIALISM!

No one's defending either of those, they're just attacking libertards.

>>387201531
But no one is talking about socialism or communism

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Why privatize when you have the greatest roads on earth already?

>>387201483
I don't know what kind of fever-dream you live in, but most organizations don't become hyper-villainous as a matter of course.

>>387198809
WTF I hate food safety acts now!?

>>387201353
If people have to individually pay for schooling, or if there were no social security and only 401k-type plans, there are by definition going to be people who can't afford to have these things. The only question is how many. I fail to see how making my society more like third-world countries is an improvement.

>>387198809
>Onerous government regulations hurt small businesses the most
Good. Fuck small businesses. Split up big businesses into medium-sized businesses when they get too large, but continue fucking the shit out of small businessowners.

>>387201741
They do so because it maximize profits. BP didn't cause oil spills for shits and giggles, it did so because it needed to ignore regulations and precautions for profits

>>387201741

I can point to the gilded age, the rampant corruption of banana republics, literally anything any major corporation has done recently to prove that, yes, to get to the top you need to do shitty things. And yes, when the only goal is maximum profits, then you can achieve the closest thing to "evil" that's going to exist in this world.

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Who wouldn't want to live in a world where it takes 10 years of paperwork and spending just to have the chance of being accepted to build a road thanks to the wonders of government?

>>387201714
>>387201597
>>387201492
How much you want to bet those are in A.) the U.S. South or B.) some other shithole where they don't properly allocate funds?

>>387201714
America painfully underfunds their private infrastructure though. It's the same reason why roads are decent in Canada if you go to BC but turn to absolute shit as you enter Alberta.

>>387201986
Public infrastructure*

>>387201714
>he wants toll booths every five feet

>>387201741
There are a shit ton of clothing retailers that keep getting caught with their hands in the "child labor" cookie jar. Today.

>>387201983
The first one is Pennsylvania, the second one is Chicago. No clue where the third one is.

Reminder that when coal miners tried to unionize just to achieve decent wages and working conditions literally this happened

>Private planes were hired to drop homemade bombs on the miners. A combination of gas and explosive bombs left over from World War I were dropped in several locations near the towns of Jeffery, Sharples and Blair.

But hey, you can trust us, goys! Libertarianism is good for the common man! Please, tell us more about it while you enjoy the fruits of the labors of your ancestors which moved us away from libertarianism!

>>387201814
You can have private scholarships to send poor people to school. There are lots of those today. There are also government-guaranteed scholarships that are market distortions. Private scholarships are best because they are almost invariably based on merit, and more importantly, because the money is freely and consciously given. It is not extracted by threat of violence.

>>387201986
>>387202008
America is crippled by a pension crisis that makes it impossible to spend on basic things like aging infrastructure. The NYC subway system is one of the most horrifying gambits on Earth.

>>387202154
The American labor movement was a literal war.

>>387202176
Actually, it's because all the wealth is going to people who already have more wealth than they can possibly use on even the most extravagant luxuries, real wages are stagnant/decreasing, and the rich don't pay taxes.

>>387202176

>Private scholarships are best because they are almost invariably based on merit

Right, me being born to a rich father who could afford to send me to the only school in the area (which is privately owned because this is libertard utopia) and thus, me outperforming my poorer peers who had to teach themselves whatever they know is absolutely a merit-based system and will not devolve into an aristocracy of the rich!

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>randroids
Jej, I thought that ship sailed with Ron "small gov for thee, pork barrel earmarks for me" Paul back in 2012.

>>387202286
do they honestly not even feel bad

like I'm perfectly fine with paying my taxes, it doesn't bother me even in the slightest. It's not like they're not making massive amounts of money anyways.

>>387202303
All of those poor kids who are trapped into working in the local coal mine for the rest of their lives sound like they're really enjoying Maximized Personal Liberty for Everyone™.

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2017 sucks ass politically but goddamn it feels good to be a moderate. Everyone around becomes more politically extreme while I stay the same.

Andrew... Ryan, two first names, huh, What the fuck is up with that?

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>>387198003
> It's intrinsically a violation of the NAP.

If you're referring to the Libertarian ideology of the Non-Aggression Principal. Economics =/= Ethics. To cut the head off the competition is as laissez faire as it can possibly get.

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>>387202492

>>387202406
I just assume it's like a game and money is the point system.

>>387202286
>Actually, it's because all the wealth is going to people who already have more wealth than they can possibly use on even the most extravagant luxuries
Blame the lack of means-testing for public welfare

>real wages are stagnant/decreasing
disputable; citation needed

>and the rich don't pay taxes.
blame distortions in the tax code; the IRS and Congress is the culprit here

>>387202649
This picture is the universal signal for "I'm a retard, please disregard me."

>>387202649
This image needs more hur-dur.

>>387195582
>bioshock is basically open world
jesus christ do people really mistake well crafted linear games for "open world" sandbox trash?

>>387202775

>blame distortions in the tax code; the IRS and Congress is the culprit here
>tfw literally pay off congressmen to write huge loopholes in the tax code
>in fact sometimes I write the bills for them
>tfw retards will defend me and blame the congressmen for this

Right, I think people who hire hitmen have no guilt either.

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>>387202875
>>387202890

>>387202649
When one side consists of literal Nazis while the others side are fighting back against them, the only people who choose to be centrist are huge retards who refuse to fight against evil before the envelop and destroy everyone.

>>387202492
centrisom only means youre a retard if you dont also have rationality. If you think "lol both candidates are retarded so why even vote?" you are a cancer on society.

>>387202976
That's the one, but now bring back to flaming shirt.

>>387203043
The other side consists of Nazis too, just on the opposite side of the spectrum.

>>387203043
>equating the right with literal nazis
This is literally why Hillary lost the election, nerd.

>>387203043
>one side consists of literal nazis
guess how I know youre a retarded sheep?

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>>387203065

>>387203043
Or you just see that keeping a level head is more important than engaging with radicals, either in opposition or in support because at the end of the day being governed by knee jerk emotional responses leads to poor decision making.

>>387203145
>Be Antifascists fighting against Nazis
>Nazis=Fascists
>ANTI NAZIS
>are the same thing

DID YOU FAIL ENGLISH SCHOOL HOLY SHIT ARE YOU THAT DUMB???

>>387202975
Your representatives have a moral duty to be transparent and honest in their dealings. Anything less is an abrogation of duty. And yet we allow lobbyists to use government power to meddle in the economy CONSTANTLY. This is absolutely a failing of that bulwark and conduit to unlimited power: The fucking Congressman ( probably due for re-election).

These people should be held accountable for their actions. I think we should throw all the bastards out. Fuck 'em.

>>387203228
Listen motherfucker I asked for a flaming tee, not this low tier bait.

>>387203332
whatchu gonna do about it bitchboy?

>>387202775
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=real+wages+vs+productivity
hmmmm where could all the money be goi--
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ceo+pay

>>387203279
I think YOU were the one who failed english school anon.

>>387203279
Well then I guess North Korea is a Democratic Republic! I mean, the name IS Democratic People's Republic of Korea!

>>387203327

Oh absolutely, but you know who else has a moral duty to not bribe public officials? Shithead CEO's. So why do libertards get angry at one and not the other?

>>387203272
Disgusting people like you with your ignorance is the reason why Nazis are running around in the first place. There is no such thing as supporting the other side because they consist of the greatest evil people in human history. If you aren't in opposition with them you are merely letting them do their work in trying to kill everyone else.

There is no such thing as being moderate in a fight against evil, only sympathizers.

>>387203382
North Korea is a better democratic country compared to the fascist USA today.

>>387203369
vote for a politician that presents egalitarian arguments for their position on issues

>>387203043
It doesn't consist of nazis, there are just nazis on it.

The whole point of Ryan's character is that he built a utopia where every man could work for himself until he found somebody (Fontaine) who could run things better and he just couldn't take it. He says something like "The Great Chain is escaping from me. Perhaps it's time I give it a tug." in reference to him interfering with people's businesses to stay on top

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God dammit I go to /v/ to discuss video games and /pol/ to discuss politics. Fuck off with this mishmash of bullshit

>>387197027
What "rules"? The rules made by the governments that anarcho-capitalism reviles? What, exactly, do you think happens when a capitalist wins enough to pull so far ahead that he attains the power to make the rules? Do you really think that someone who's spent his entire life amassing money and power will just stop at a certain point?

Governments are effectively just corporations that have acquired the local monopoly on policing and military "services", and by extension a monopoly on the ability to make the local rules. Any organisation (including corporations, as occurred with the East India Company until the seizure of its assets by the British Crown) that becomes sufficiently powerful to assimilate, dismantle, or otherwise eclipse governments will necessarily seize police and military power and become the government, de jure or de facto.

>>387203545
cry harder faggot

>>387203545
>goes to /pol/ to discuss politics
I'm sorry that your website got deleted.

>>387203475
Alright. It's obvious you're being facetious.

>>387203545
>crossboarding alt-right vidyakiddie
I wish I was surprised.

>>387197228
and thus it's not real capitalism

>>387203545
Kill yourself Nazi.

>>387203627
Yeah, /news/ was a great board.

>>387203717
but trump denounced nazis, if you hate trump youre literally a racist :)

>>387202649
>>387202976
>>387203228
These are right though

There's literally nothing wrong with being bipartisan and moderate on political issues

>>387190326
Capitalism works as long as monopolies are not allowed

>>387203382
like south korea is much better with its literal cult government.

>>387203441
The reason why Nazis are running around is because extremists have been given a voice, quite the opposite of people being apathetic to their views.

>>387203863
Capitalism works until it finds out it can buy itself political/soft power.

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>>387190326
>makes ancapistan under the sea
>forgets to make sure that everyone involved ascribes to the NAP

Flew too close to the sun.

>>387190326
Fuck off kike. Reminder that Ayn Rand was a jew.

>>387203863
>Capitalism works as long as it's not functioning correctly

>>387203685
A free market is a requirement for capitalism to thrive, they're not the same thing

>>387203863
Profit motive ensures that this will happen if at all possible.

>>387203904
We need to follow germany and ban anyone who uses Nazi imagery and then jail them for spreading hate speech.

That will stop things.

>>387204040
Any market entity that's large enough has an incentive to not have a free market. Actually even several large market entities can come to a truce in a laissez faire system to stifle outsiders for logical self interest. America's ISP fiefdoms instantly spring to mind.

>>387203904
Yeah """nazis""" are running around, because the moderates that are elected are weak idiots.They've been feeding into post modern, and cultural marxist propoganda.Extremists on both sides recognize more than anyone else the problems we face, and
>>387203441
The fire rises

>>387190326
anyone who goes on /v/ would get fucking killed in like a day if any true form of Ayn Rand bullshit was put into place. /k/ is the only board that would have a chance.

>>387204227
>/pol/ babby thinks out and proud nazis aren't in the news
pottery

>>387190326
Bioshock 1 is unironically my favorite game of all time.

ITT: faggot """"capitalists"""" and """"objectivists""" arguing with """"socialists""""

None of these ideologies in their pure form will ever work in real life. It's all just theoretical circle-jerking while ignoring human nature.

>>387203509
So lets say you're going to a Right wing meet up because you believe in your ideology so much.
Then red necks waving confederate flags show up. because they agree with everything you're saying
Then klansmen show up. for the same reason
Then LITERAL FUCKING NAZIS show up for the same reason.

At what point do you not think "Gee nazis agree with everything I say. Maybe there's a flaw in my ideology."

>>387204581
>have a guy whip out a nazi flag at every DNC event
>now all democrats are literally nazis

>>387204581
I'm not even right wing, I just prefer to let far/alt-right dipshits be the ones who try to tar a huge group of people with the same brush.

Friendly reminder in this /pol/ thread -

"Capitalism" has absolutely nothing do with free market competition. It is purely the deification of financial parasitism. It emerged as a philosophy mostly in response to the earliest anarchist and socialist movements which were essentially basic human rights campaigns seeking to end the contemporary 'wage slavery' (the REAL kind, with actual forced labor). In practice the USA and certain natural-resource 'nigger rich' countries like the OPEC members are the only countries to even flirt with Capitalism as an official ideology (because it is an enormously hollow word).

"Socialism" is a purely hypothetical post-economic utopian state which is meant to provide a common vision for mankind to strive for, even in the knowledge that it is never achievable (much like other ancient dreams, eg. freedom from war, freedom from death, freedom from aging and illness, etc., socialism is 'freedom from economy'). Almost all 'Socialist' states destroy themselves by taking it too literally and setting out to accomplish it through radical destruction and recreation of the social order - revolution. The few historical cases that haven't, eg. the Nordic 'Social Democracies', were all really just free market states with successful welfare states.

>>387204227
>>387204219
Extremist invent social problems, moderates resolve them.
I'm sorry that ignoring rhetoric, being empathetic, and being reasonable isn't very exciting, but if you really want to LARP a civil war, go to Syria.

>>387204713
>being a moderate when one side consists of literal nazis

It's people like you who use their privilege in order to not fight a war that should be fought. What a coward.

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>>387195582

>>387190326
>it's another /v/tards debate high politics episode

great

>>387201986
Logic
Government doesn't work thats why i vote for people who say that government doesn't work and won't do anything to fix government. so i can feel confident in saying government doesn't work

>>387204787
Should I not eat because there are children starving in Africa? Should I not be rational when irrational people exist?

>>387204646
o wow this argument is just...

>>387197306
Why would any entity powerful enough to create this theoretical impartial court and enforce its authority over a society actually end up creating it? It would necessarily be giving up its power for nebulous, ideologically-"altruistic" gains, and there would be no assurance that the system wouldn't devolve back to a monopolar power distribution.

The closest example in the modern world to private entities competing and cooperating within a "society" without greater government oversight and forming their own overarching social agreements would be criminal organisations and the tenuous arrangements they make to prevent conflict at the expense of "business" -- but there's nevertheless always at least some incentive to exploit conflict and violence for the advancement of their interests. It's been said time and again, but it's nothing short of naive to expect any objectivist/ancap society to actually function within the paradigms of its ideological ideals.

>>387190326
He was good up until the point he didn't have an after credit scene of walking out of a Vita chamber.
Bioshock second half was ass, infinite even more so. 2 was the only one that stayed solid, and it's the only good Bioshock and the only one really worth playing.

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>>387190326
this entire thread

>>387203863
Oxymoron

>>387200469
It baffles the mind as to why you and other ancaps think every individual or entity would adhere to the NAP in this hypothetical society if it sufficiently benefits them to violate it and they have the power to get away with it, or that perfect justice from a centralised judicial authority could be effectively established, maintained, and distributed.

>>387205632
I don't. I just think people should be as free as is theoretically possible until they break the rules. Only then should freedom be restricted.

>>387205632
SOCALISM DOESNT WORK BECAUSE OF HUMAN NATURE
but if we install a ancap system the NAP. it will make everyone just start respecting everyone else. and corporations will just start respecting individuals because of the profit motive

>>387201531
>pointing out that libertarians are braindead imbeciles is now communism

>>387192395
>UNIONS ARE NOTHING BUT MOB THUGS
that's what ((they)) want you to think so that you work like a good slave and don't ask questions

>>387190326
How did rapture actually produce wealth? Like they have no trade with the outside world as far as their tech industry is concerned, and the only other industry featured is a fishery-rapture's only natural resource. How does it stay afloat?

Read Marx.

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>>387201741
you were saying?

>>387207396
there's shitloads of natural resources on the ocean floor

>>387190326
the game is one big fucking critique of his bullshit philosophy
thats why the whole fucking city is in ruins.

>>387195884
3 was supposed to be a masterpiece but time happened and 78% of creative ideas were cut from the final product.

>>387207517
Yeah but they never bring that up- the only industries they mention are either tech or the fishery. Are we to believe that a city created to be a nanny state for cultural elitists is propped up by a few fishermen buying ALL of the products?

>>387196572
Prey is good but Bioshock has better story

>>387204713
I'm not an extremist.I wouldn't call myself a moderate either.I'm somewhere around libertarian, and minarchist.The WEAK moderates i was referring to are the idiots in the senate, the house, and the IDIOTS who elected them.John Mcain won't save us.

>>387190898
Fuck off back to tumblr scum

>>387190326
Objectivism is retarded. The whole point of the game was showing flaws of and holes in the Atlus Shrugged type utopia and how it would fall apart.

>>387209236
>I'm somewhere around libertarian, and minarchis
Wow its almost like people have abstract political options and associating yourself with a left/right orientation is for naive collectivists.
If only there was a word that described this flexible position.

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>>387195582
Yeah, and Bioshock: Infinite is a multiplayer game.

>>387210980
but anon, not picking one side for everything is for the weak minded who are too scared of conflict

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>>387194742
I love these birds

>>387201983
California has the shittiest roads no matter how many taxes they pass.

>Freedom for anyone to pursue their arts and business and whatever the fuck they want!
>Unless it threatens to push me out of power
>Then I'm just as corrupt and strangling as the governments I sought to escape

Ryan was a hypocrite.

>>387198801
it gets praised by people who read philosophy and literature

it doesn't matter where the praise gets from, but its pretty fucking obvious the game is truly memorable.