>Completing quests and objectives is the only thing that gives

>>387131290

>tfw max guns toreador

>>387131290
Getting points for completing basic tasks is one of the basic Skinner Box constructs, and Skinner Boxes work better when they provide constant feedback. Devs know that people are more likely to keep playing if they're drip-fed positive reinforcement rather than getting it in bursts. It's not necessarily good game design, but it's good psychology.

>>387131608
I hate how right you are.

Grinders should die desu

>>387131964
gaijin pig detected

>>387132198
Grinding is a horrible mechanic of the times long gone. It is time for video game designers to stop implementing it. It is the year 2017 for ffs

>>387132198
>Unironically liking grinding.

Might as well do heroin.

>>387132587
>implying there's something wrong with doing heroin
Fuck off, fag

>>387132306
>It is the year 2017
Anon... it's 2026. Are you ok?

>>387132812
It's actually the year 2264. We've lived through the 2000-2020 cycle 13 times already. I can't wait for the next reset.

>>387131608

Getting points based on how many kills you wrack up discourages sneakier styles of play in games with a system involving character progression.

I'm not saying you can't have RPGs that give XP for kills, but alternative approaches are appreciated.

>>387133045
>excited for them rehashing the same old tired content again
The franchise died with the 1989-1999 expansion

>>387133184
System like that of VTMB kinda means there's a single optimal way to complete the game though
I don't actually remember how much Bloodlines locked you out of stuff depending on your choices, it's been ages since I played it, but in the end you either do everything possible or intentionally gimp your character

>>387133267
The NPCs get purged each cycle. I'm looking forward to the sweet embrace of oblivion.
Ice cream? god I love ice cream!

>>387133458
>System like that of VTMB kinda means there's a single optimal way to complete the game though
What do you mean?

Most missions in VTMB allow for many non-combat approaches, whether it's sneaking, hacking or talking your way through an NPC to complete an objective, thus rewarding multiple playstyles the same. Of course there are some specialist objectives in certain missions where being a sneaking expert or a hacking/lockpicking expert is a requirement for completing it, thus again rewarding significant investment in a certain playstyle. I have many examples if you don't believe me.

The only possible repercussion like you said is that it kind of forces the player to do as many side quests as possible. But I don't think this is a bad thing. Side quests are supposed to be an integral part of the game, both for developing your view of the setting as well as the factions you will have to choose later on. This is not an open world game with "optional side quests" as many devs like to put it nowadays, there is a finite number of handcrafted complete side quests that are supposed to be done, or that's how the devs thought it should be, in my eyes.

>>387131290
Deus Ex did it before this.

>>387133942
Nobody said VTMB did it first.

>>387134132
It's a good system though, I agree.

Grinding is really just made to appeal to people that a) have autism and enjoy repetitive boring activity and b) want to remove all challenge from the game and excel at everything, no coincidence it most frequently appears in pseudo-games such as the Final Fantasy series.

>>387133942
I recall in Deus Ex doing a lot of unnecessary backtracking to pick up milestone XP. I have the impression that they were trying to give me multiple ways of approaching my objective, but my search for XP made it my objective to crawl through the entire level instead of putting me in the head of the character.

Not that this is a bad thing, necessarily. I find exploration really rewarding, and rewarding exploration is a lot more interesting than grinding through combat. I'm just saying if they were looking for a way to offer rewards that was satisfying and incentivised engagement with the story, they'd have been better off just getting rid of XP entirely and giving me levels in between missions.

>>387133942
Since you brought it up...

Deus Ex indeed did it first and had a good system, but I see it as a bit undeveloped compared to VTMB. Deus Ex was a lot more of an "action" game, focused on gameplay rather than dialogue like VTMB did. As a result, the diversity of problem-solving in Deus Ex involves a lot of the same, multi-tools, lockpicking, hacking (which is very flawed unfortunately, 2 levels and you can hack every computer). There are SOME instances where you can talk to an NPC and pick the right option to let you move further thus bypassing a lockpick/electronics check, but these are not stat-based, not part of the character building.

My point is that VTMB has a much more meaningful diversity in its quest solving methods. It has hacking, lockpicking, sneaking, just like Deus Ex does, but it also integrates dialogue and all kinds of persuasion/seduction/intimidation, even DISCIPLINE checks like dominate and dementation. If somebody wants the option to add a social dimension to their character, Deus Ex's roleplaying component doesn't really accommodate it.

Which is why I think using VTMB as a baseline for comparison for this sort of XP system is better, and OP is right in doing so.

>>387134603
Well you can't really pick up all the possible skills bonuses in every level, in fact I think Liberty Island is the only one where you can get ALL of them.

You also don't really need to level up even once to complete the game.

>tfw I played Bloodlines years ago, dropped it halfway, and I'm now playing with the Plus patch all over again.

Did I make a huge mistake?

Some of the music inclusions like in the diner is really weird and out of place. I like the visual bump though.

>>387135085
If you haven't completed the game yet, I suggest playing with the basic patch. Some of the plus patch's significant cut content restorations are in the second half of the game, and could throw you off since they are not on par with the base content.

Also afaik there is no visual bump in the plus patch that is not in the basic version. Everything's the same except for the restored content.

>>387135085
Plus is a fine addition to the game but it takes too many liberties. There are heaps of unused garbage assets and Wesp5 made it his mission to reimplement all of them, often incoherently and without taking the canon/source into account.

You owe it to yourself to play the vanilla experience at least once. Uninstall and start with the basic patch right now.

File: 2015-12-31_00001.jpg (390KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

390KB, 1280x1024px

>>387131290
There's oddity system in underrail, but I think with my playstyle I'd get levels faster with regular xp mode.

>>387131290
because people like grinding and dislike the lack of instant gratification that xp on completion of a quest represents.

D&D online tried it, and people hated it because of that, even though it was quite alright as an MMO.

>>387135442
>Plus is a fine addition to the game but it takes too many liberties. There are heaps of unused garbage assets and Wesp5 made it his mission to reimplement all of them, often incoherently and without taking the canon/source into account.

I figured as much. Some cut content was cut for a good reason.

>>387131290
If you go that way combat starts to look unnecessary and boring, basically an artificial obstacle in between getting XP for quests. It would only work if combat itself is mechanically engaging or if it beautiful/awesome on its own. Basically if you combined combat from Dragon's Dogma with quests from VTMB. It would still be impossible though, because you just can't have good things.

>>387137932
>If you go that way combat starts to look unnecessary and boring

Why is that the case if both are treated equally?

>>387138529
If you get XP for combat, then its purpose is clear - to give you XP and open the possibility of grinding.
If you don't get XP for combat, then what's the point of combat in the first place?

>>387139295
Or you can have limited numbers of enemies in the whole game

>>387139295
>If you don't get XP for combat, then what's the point of combat in the first place?

To complete the Quest? What's the point of sneaking past enemies or tricking them instead?

>>387139827
That's what they did in Divinity and it was awful. I ended up trying to maximize the amount of enemies I kill, sometimes at the expense of common sense, and in the end I dropped it.

>>387133830
He means that because there's a finite amount of XP available in the game and a finite number of quests then it's possible to figure out what choices give you access to the most quests and the most xp from those quests.

Is the weapon progression supposed to be this slow?
For comparison, since i started the game, i completed the mission where i had to find the malkavian primogen, and i only found the 38 peashooter, the uzi of ammo consumption and the shotgun WMD.
Mercurio mentioned all sorts of cool as shit guns but i want to know when i unlock them.
Melee weapons are also kinda lacking, i used the knife for 90% of the time until now, where i switched to the fire axe, which hacks through pretty much everything

>>387141187
Pretty sure firearms are pretty underpowered compared to melee in this game.

>>387143038
Against vampires yes, does wonders on humans tho, especially since they fly around the room and have to get back up.
Not sure if headshots work, i've tried to do some against some zombies in the bishop house and i did 140 damage a hit with the 38, but i haven't been able to do it again

>>387143346
Yeah that works, I use the .38 in the zombie infested vampire crack den even when I play a melee build, super effective if a bit finicky, you have to wait for the zombie's head to bob up all the way and then you're golden.

>>387135474
Playing it now, feels really good finding those oddities if you play hamster style like me.

Is there literally any point in NOT putting all points into single feats and min/max at the character creator?

Since more EXP is needed for the higher feats then isnt it smartest to fill out costly stuff at the start?

>>387131290

So I'm planning on getting this once I'm done with Odin Sphere L and The Last Guardian. Any particular mods I should get?

Most western RPG's don't give you shit for killing monsters in comparison to quests.

>>387143038

Nah. I usually do a melee build but for one playthrough I did a firearm playthrough for fun and was surprised with how powerful guns get. If I remember correctly there's kind of a progress lull in Downtown but you start to get some weapons that do serious damage, even to vampires, from Hollywood on. Being a ranged weapon also starts to be a huge benefit, there's a fair number of bosses in the game that do some serious melee damage and not much of anything at range.

>>387144863
Wesp5's unofffical patch, he's been fixing the game for goddamn years now. Super easy to install, comes with an installer and everything.

There's a plus version and a basic version you pick during the installation. Playing basic first time through is heavily recommended. The plus patch comes with some cool stuff and I am by no means a purist; but it also has some really questionable inclusions. He's basically dug up every little damn thing in the code and put it back in the game for better or worse, some of it was most likely deliberately cut because it doesn't fit the game.

>>387145439
>The plus patch comes with some cool stuff and I am by no means a purist; but it also has some really questionable inclusions.

Apparently he has started adding some of that shit to the basic version as well to advertise his other patch which, naturally, he considers to be the definitive patch that everyone should use.

>>387145009
>Most western RPG's don't give you shit for killing monsters in comparison to quests.

Doesn't really matter, the very fact that XP is gained from killing means grinding is possible.

>>387144525
Boring playstyle and you are locked out of different speech checks except the ones you max for.

I'm doing a first playthrough and certain situations are a fuckton easier if you use melee or firearms, depending on the situations.
Sneaking is absolutely useless tho, i literally have 1 points in it and i can literally crouch walk close enough to someone to suck their cock and they won't notice.

>>387145768
>Apparently he has started adding some of that shit to the basic version as well to advertise his other patch which, naturally, he considers to be the definitive patch that everyone should use.

One some level I can understand him, since the True Patch exists and there are some things that could almost be considered objective improvements.

The concern here is that Wesp tries to peddle polarizing stuff. A lot of his changes are pretty unfaithful to the spirit of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt0sTLXon6w
>>387131338
>>387135085
play with basic patch, then play with plus patch. might also want to save malkavian for a second playthrough, and nosferatu for a third. that's your decision though.
>>387135474
there was a similar system in haven and hearth and that was pretty cool.
>>387147892
true patch a shit. wesp patch a best.