>If the internal raid team has spent hours on testing KJ,

>>387123494
>waaahhh we can't kill the boss so please nerf it
Sounds to me like the ""top"" guilds fucked up.

>WAAAH! This raid is too easy, the boss has gone down in a single week!
>WAAAH! This raid is too hard, the boss hasn't gone down in the first day!
I don't get the modern WoW community. Just make up your fucking mind.

>>387123694
Children are impossible to please.

>>387123694
Avatar and KJ before nerfs weren't hard, they were impossible with obviously placeholder numbers and bugs
There a big difference
Lich King was hard and gear depended, so you could git gud and spend 2-3 weeks to gear up better

top guilds haven't been good for years now.

>>387124021
how so

>>387124504
All the old e celebs quit and the he doesn't like the new ones.

>>387125960
Well, he plays f2p garbage aka black desert so his opinion shouldn't matter

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/6q0r1j/impressions_and_thoughts_after_tos_race_from_gm/

>>387123494
Why not just take one or two ids longer and grind the gear? Shouldn't you have to do that to be able to kill the boss?

>>387126415
KJ was mathematically impossible regardless of gear. Not in the "This is really hard so we're going to meme MATHEMTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE" way but in the "This mechanic does 120 million damage and we have to divide it evenly between 20 players with <5m HP" way.

>>387123494
why are raids the only end game modern MMO provide? Shouldnt there be much more to RPGs than just boss rush?

>>387126481
If thats true then its a fuck up but I can't imagine that since they spent 400+ tries on KJ and you wouldn't do that if it was impossible.

>>387126550
You don't see mythic bosses on ptr, so even with 1-2 minute pulls you can train and get used to him

>>387126654
Mythic last bosses*

>>387126654
If you see your raid wiping because of an mathematically impossible mechanic then you stop since you have no way of winning nevermind how good you play.

However, it probably wasn't that case and simply overtuned hence they tried.

>>387126756
Except that's wrong. Blizzard regularly does live hotfixes, including mid-fight hotfixes to some bosses (Mythic Helya for example was hotfixed several times during Exorsus and Method pulls).
So you can't really just stop if you're seriously after world firsts, because Blizzard regularly makes unannounced changes on a minute-by-minute basis on those bosses.

Blizzard devs actually log in on invisible characters in the top guilds raids, sometimes just to watch, but they also keep on eye out for bug abuse etc.

File: 1484713707879.jpg (15KB, 388x341px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 388x341px

>>387126756
>internal dev team kills Mythic KJ
>releases him in this state
>"celebrity" guilds try and they fail miserably
KJ IS TOO HARD

>the devs get sad and say "well we did have trouble on this one part, so what if we nerf it so hard the normal players can simply ignore it all together. This nerf makes it so that our internal team can literally beat KJ on farm now"
>"celebrity" guilds still try and fail miserably
KJ IS TOO HARD ITS A BUG THESE NUMBERS ARE CLEARLY PLACEHOLDER

>Blizzard has to go in and babysit the guilds, sees them run terrible comps, ignore raid-wiping mechanics, do encounters incorrectly, and all around make the devs reconsider their fucking lives
>hotfix all the mistakes the guilds make
>suddenly the boss is killable now
>boss is immediately nerfed to be a patchwerk/ursoc DPS check after world first so that the rest of the fucking world can do it

>half the team leaves to make different games because this is a fucking embarrassment

>>387126983
That's literally why Ion's character is called Watcher. He's been doing it since Ulduar, and even witnessed Nihilum exploiting during their Lich King world first.

>>387123494
Are people seriously complaining that a boss is taking two days to down? Has everyone from the Mu'ru era moved on or something?

So is the problem just that they tuned it for week 4 gear and not week 1 gear?

>>387126546
WoW was founded by ex-hardcore raiders from Everquest, so I guess it's no surprise they focus on raid content often to the exclusion of everything else.

>>387127353
Remember when you had to collect gear from an instance to defeat later bosses in the same instance?

>>387127410
>Remember when you had to collect gear from an instance to defeat later bosses in the same instance?

Yeah and it was fucking great

>>387127410
The OG founders of WoW are gone from the company or moved to other projects like Jeff Kaplan. Hazikostas thinks he's hxc hot shit but he's really just a retarded Greek piece of greasy shit moron.

>>387123972
>Lich King

This is how end bosses should be designed. Give you stats buff the longer it takes you to kill him but having limited attemps per week. Also making sure that the buff doesn't make the fight trivial. Even with max stats buff,you still had moments in the fight where a spell could one shot you, like that void zone thing. The stats buff was a pretty good way of reducing the ridiculous DPS checks in that fight.

Fuck Lich King 25 heroic was such a badass fight. Much better than it's 10 man version. Also the penultimate fight was pretty good too, Putricide I think was it's name. One of the more fun fights in that expansion.

>>387127283

To be fair it took much longer to gear in TBC. And getting better gear in nuWoW is much more tedious right now. You actually need to get good ilevel rolls to get an upgrade. Most of my gear during the previous raid was from Heroic difficulty because I got lucky. Didn't really have motivation to clear mythic when the chances of getting upgrades were slim as fuck.

>>387127552
>but having limited attemps per week
Considering how fucking AWFUL the timegating is this expansion, this would be the fucking death of the raiding scene for this game. I guarantee it.

>Also the penultimate fight was pretty good too
There was no penultimate fight in ICC, you needed to clear three wings to access the LK. No order. Putricide, Blood Queen, and Sindragosa were all the final bosses of their respective wing.

>>387127543
Hazzikostas was the founder of Elitist Jerks which was the most raid-obsessed, spreadsheeting, theorycrafting forum on the entire internet. It's changed hands from a group of poopsocking raiders to arguably an even more raid-happy guy. When Watcher got entire control over the game, we get WoD, which had literally nothing to do outside of raids, until we got Tanaan which is probably the drabbest, most awful daily zone in the game's history.

>>387127164
>internal dev team kills Mythic KJ
I have my doubts about that, it had one shot abilities that bugged like this
webm here >>387126371
>>387127283
>Are people seriously complaining that a boss is taking two days to down?
No one had problems with 2 weeks for blackhand for example
Both top guilds called blizzard for shit like
>Totally wrong numbers. As I’ve already said, it’s hard to make sure you’ve tuned everything so bosses are in a perfect state, however I cannot understand how you can tune damage of some abilities to numbers, which are totally just placeholders or brickwalls. X2 damage of a “Sear” after each “Rupture realities” cast, when you need to survive until fourth cast of it? 30m damage on “Focused Dreadflame” in mythic? How we are supposed to handle it? (remember that each one who’s splitting the damage is getting 800k more damage) 800k DoT ticks on entire raid on the last phase from the start? You shouldn’t be an Oxford graduate to realize this numbers are wrong, unless we’re back to 25 man raiding.
If each pull lasts less than 2 minutes, than somethig is really wrong and blizzard's "well we weren't sure about it during last 2 weeks" is literally over top

>>387127543
what >>387127783 said, watcher was someone I interacted with multiple times on EJ and he knows his shit, but it's not just up to him what happens. he would have been told 'we need more time sinks' so the AP system was created. remember he was one of the original people working on c'thun back in vanilla and nerd raged tons about it being 'mathematically impossible' too he wouldn't have wanted it to happen again. i feel like the internal raid team fucked up pretty hard
>>387126983
mid-fight hotfixes where pretty common at top 10 level, I remember multiple instances of it happening on heroic lei shen and heroic sha of fear just off the top of my head

>>387127992
>>387127783
WoD having no content was hardly his fault, there was tons of it planned but it was all cut because suits wanted yearly expansions. WoD being terrible is entirely on the corporate side of Blizzard, not the developers.

7,2 was mess gamedsign wise
It was pretty, but some things didn't made sense at all
For example there was questchain that gives you cool class mount at the end, itwas timegated
One of the last quests(was unlocked 3 weeks after patch release) was about finding 10(was later nerfed to 5) chests on the island
Quests like this usually introduce mechanics so they should be early, but even that wasn't worst thing
When you take this quest you start phasing and from many chests on island there couldn't be more than 2 at the same time for you
Even with fly mount this shit was nightmare

>>387128334
>Even with fly mount this shit was nightmare
Except for the fact that they are literally marked out for you on the mini map, even when the Mage Tower isn't active.

What sucked about the Broken Shore questline is that it took 11 weeks to complete and every step of the way was something arbitrary like "kill 100 demons in Suramar or Azsuna" and "now kill 100 demons on the Broken Shore", shit that would take 5 minutes if you knew where to go. It sucked that you didn't actually work towards opening the tomb, just runing errands for Khadgar and Illidan while they did all the important shit in cutscenes.

>>387128303
It's a shame really, WoD could have been so much more and actually wasn't too bad when you played the little content it had. Garrisons will always be a mistake though.

>>387130616
Eveb garrisons could work if blizzard was little more smart and you didn't need to sit 24/7 in them
wotlk/mop/wod/legion they all suffer from shitty game design

File: WoWScrnShot_040417_233535.jpg (182KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 1920x1080px

>>387128696
7.2 was just a patch of: Do what you had been doing for since January and here's some new world quests and a shitty "weekly story quest" that's even shittier to do than the new world quests. The only cool thing in 7.2 was the new appearance because it was actually challenging, if you didn't play one of the few specs that got a trivial one.

Blizzard has always been incompetent with numbers. They couldn't even do a squish properly.

Just to be clear, Blizzard does not have and has never had a Mythic (nor pre-SoO "Heroic") QA team. Ever.

Blizz's QA raid team is currently a 10-man, and they only do Heroic. I know this because of former raid members who became and are Blizzard staff.

Mythic content is tested almost exclusively on Live. That anyone thinks Blizzard is going to assemble and pay an elite 20 for Mythic is so naive it's funny.

And before everyone freaks out about muh balance and progression: Blizzard does not care about competitive raiding. That's a thing that less than 1% of WoW players even attempt to do, much less succeed at. Blizz is not concerned, at all, about keeping top-end raiding a balanced contest--because it's not. It never has been, despite what Twitch Streamer #235255464 wants.

>>387133145
I believe you, anonymous poster on 4chan #235255464.

>>387132745
>They couldn't even do a squish properl
What are you talking about
Stat squish was actually decent

>>387133638
Decent after 3 months of continued patching for all the damage values they missed.

>>387123494
I'm pretty sure you didn't get anywhere near KJ mythic around that time

>>387133854
Doesn't matter
People who did gave blizzard actually good and constructive feedback, but blizzard decided to shit on them with that post

>>387133992
How did they shit on them with that post? Because they took their time instead of making hasty changes?

>>387133145
The fun thing about it is also that the world first race isn't streamed, it's purely for bragging rights. Even the average mythic raider don't even try to aim that high.

>>387127164
>>the devs get sad and say "well we did have trouble on this one part, so what if we nerf it so hard the normal players can simply ignore it all together. This nerf makes it so that our internal team can literally beat KJ on farm now"

well they kind of caused that attitude themselves, the WoW dev team has been oversimplifying encounters and adding obnoxious shit to make them 'hard'.

The hardest fight I've ever done was naxx 40 Gothik, had to learn a spreadsheet and memorise the entire spawn cycle which was a massive pain in the ass but it was needed if you were on CC duty.

Other than that Kil'jaeden was good as it needed everyone to complete a set of their own and combined tasks that required both individual initiative and group co-ordination.

the thing is they've dumbed down shit so much and the entire community isn't used to having to raidstack or swap professions to beat m'uru (fuck this guy pre shadow lightning nerf) and as a result this is the quality raiding stock that they're left with

>>387134878
>the thing is they've dumbed down shit so much and the entire community isn't used to having to raidstack
lol wut
Even this tier is great example how fucking wrong you are

>>387134878
>the thing is they've dumbed down shit so much and the entire community isn't used to having to raidstack or swap professions to beat m'uru
I'm so used to seeing current WoW players say the exact opposite, although they usually started in WotLK or Cata and don't have any visibility on how it used to be

>>387135185
>and don't have any visibility on how it used to be
I started in late vanilla
During mop you didn't just swapped professions, you fucking swapped your race to get better bonuses for tier
Let's not even start with what people did for ragn h