How do we unfuck the entire WH40k vidya franchise? Can any lessons

GW is the one responsible of the current state of WH40K games.
Streum tried to make a great game but GW forced them to use a very small fraction of their property.

buy the good games and don't buy the bad games

>>387109446
Problem is, there's a good chance nobody is going to even try making any more WH40k games, if the bad ones flop too hard.

>>387109331
>Streum tried to make a great game but GW forced them to use a very small fraction of their property.
What game are you talking about?

>>387109127
Give it to a actual developer instead of allowing any Tom, Dick, and Harry the ability to fuck with it.

>>387109783
I doubt GW would refuse the request of any major developer to use their setting. Problem is, no major developer wants to do so. Why? The setting is very well known and is quite popular, why doesn't anyone competent like Bethesda try their hand at making a WH40k game? They did great with Doom.

>>387109783
This. Why the fuck are there phone games and chess clones of 40k?

>>387109446
>don't know if the game is good without having played it
>can't play if you don't buy
>can pirate, but paying for it afterwards seems stupid
The system is rigged.

>>387109931
>The setting is very well known and is quite popular,
Amongst gaming circles. To normies it may as well not exist, and that's all big name devs give a shit about. They could easily make a good 40k game that would rake in a hundred thousand or so purchases, or they could clone CoD and Madden again and make millions.

>>387109931
>Problem is, no major developer wants to do so. Why?
AAA studios would rather work with an IP they own to keep as much money as possible. The only people who would benefit from using a popular license are AA companies who are almost nonexistant these days.

>>387110052
Realistically reviews would fill this hole, but the average reviewer is either some fuckwit on youtube or a paid shill.

>>387109127
You don't. Let it die. 40k games are fucking trash

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>>387109931
> why doesn't anyone competent try their hand at making a WH40k game?

see >>387110135

GW are ultra jews who would take a stupid large profit cut for the 40k license. There is no incentive for an AA or AAA studio to get the 40k license when they can just come up with their own IP and get to keep ALL the profits for themselves.

>>387110052
>be cheap
>make up excuses not to buy things even when refunds exist

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>>387109446
This is one of the good ones

Nobody in /v/ mentions it because they fucking suck

So the only chance we have at getting a good WH40k game is for some small, yet competent dev to pick up the license. That doesn't sound encouraging at all.

they should just learn from Total Warhammers success and make a similar 40k RTS game that plays more like the tabletop. Something like that old Star Wars RTS Empire at War but with gameplay more like a mix between Total Warhammer and Wargame Airland Battle/Combat Mission

>>387110915
Wasn't something like this announced at some point?

>>387111073

There's a 2-player twin stick shooter but it's not that great.

>>387110998
>make a similar 40k RTS game
No. Make a 40k RTT game like Dawn of War 2, except with a focus on battalion-regiment level of engagements, not squad-platoon, like it was in DoW2.

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>>387110824
It may be good, but it's way too niche to be considered successful, especially since it seems like a really high budget game. It has less players than DoW3. In order for WH40k franchise to be successful, it needs to attract actual players.

>>387110935
>That doesn't sound encouraging at all.
It's mostly a problem because those kinds of devs started vanishing between this gen and last gen. There used to be a ton of licensed 40k games from smaller devs but without them the only people interested in the license are mobile shit.

whatever they heck they gotta do they gotta just make the table top in vidya form, thats the warhammer game people want, thats why total warhammer is a success, instead we get bizarre horde mode shooters, battle fleet gothic shit, and DoW which is beginning to feel more like a MOBA with every iteration

>>387111559
there won't be any more DoW so that problem is solved

>>387111559
>they gotta just make the table top in vidya form
Space Hulk was already made, it wasn't really exceptionally popular compared to turn based tactical games of similar budget based in other settings.

>>387111559
They're probably afraid of porting the tabletop to a game 1:1 because then people would just play that instead of the tabletop. That being said, more strategy games in the setting would be great, or any good game at all really. Space Marine was great til the last boss fight.

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Is this the 40k thread?

Alright, let's talk DoW3. I know most people shit on it without ever having tried it - for good reason - but I still jump in occasionally, especially as of the Annihilation release, which did wonders towards making the gameplay bearable.

I think the best part about DoW3 hitting rock bottom is that the devs have way more freedom to make fuckhuge changes. For example, I jsut found pic related in a forum psot on the upcoming august patch.

>Time to kill being too fast for many players is a recurring criticism. [...] We’ve been testing balance changes that increase the overall resiliency of line units, going even so far as 50%. While we’d likely avoid a completely uniform increase, we could see increasing health of line units by 20-25% on average. This is not a light undertaking as it will change relationships and pacing considerably.

https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/14514/balance-feedback-july-27-2017#latest

I really fucking approve of this. While it's obvious Relic had the spirit of "large scale battles like DoW1," they completely jumped the gun by making said units instagibb to the lightest breeze. Considering the low resource rate next to the expendability, balance and general gameplay was all sorts of fucked. Such a wild buff of line units would actually make persistent squads worthwhile, and reinforcing them viable (it is viable now, yet typically impossible considering life expectancy).

Though DoW1 remains my favorite, I'm still keeping distant hopes for DoW3. If my boys the IG get in, the chances are good the game could eventually become "great."

>>387109754
It think hes talking about space hulk deathwing

>>387112956
I would get dow 3 if Dark Eldar get in. So I can bring my wych squads over to IG bases for some good old torture.

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>>387112956
>>387113398

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>>387113398
And that's how I know you are officially mah nigga.

It's a damned shame though that my other boys the deldar will never get into anything ever again after DoW1. IG and Deldar are my two tabletop armies.

>>387112956
there's no hope for dow3 without going f2p

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>>387113624
That wouldn't help anything. Don't be an idiot. If the gameplay isn't fun or attractive, what good is making it free? No, the devs need to focus on fixing it, then, if we're lucky enough, put out something big and attractive like a patch with a new faction or 2 like Chaos and IG.

Also, Last Stand. Last Stand would be good.

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>>387113787
>a patch with a new faction
Meant expansion, but all the same.

They need to make a gamemode or at least a single level where you just get a fixed number of requisition points and are free to buy yourself an army using those points. Then you duke it out with your opponent on a map without those retarded towers.

>>387113787
i'm sure sega is going to keep throwing money at a game with 200 players

>>387113919
I had been thinking about that since DoW1. That would be incredible, but also pretty unlikely. Someone could mod that into DoW1, but it seems like a niche thing, especially considering its competing mods.

>>387109931
>competent
>like Bethesda
Nice meme.

>>387111559
WHY DOES EVERYONE IGNORE

SANCTUS FUCKING REACH

>>387111559
They will never do that because then nobody will buy their overpriced plastic.

>>387109127
Make a Total War game out of it.

>>387114193
>SANCTUS FUCKING REACH
well i just looked it up and i'll tell you why everyone ignores it, because it looks really poorly made and its turn based and by a nobody dev. gameplay, animations, unit selection, and size of battles looks kinda bland too compared to what Total Warhammer 40k would look like

>>387114502
That would never work. Formations don't work in modern combat.

>>387114668
This. The Imperial Guard can fit formations in their larger campaigns but that's it. An RTS is ideal if you're looking to capture the spirit of the tabletop game since it's much more loose than a grand strategy game.

>>387109331
>Streum tried to make a great game but GW forced them to use a very small fraction of their property.
You're an idiot. Streum opted to make a game about fucking deathwing, the most generic boring shitty 40k adaption ever. It was their fault it flopped.

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Don't mind me, just being the best DoW mod.

>>387113601
I don't even like deldar very much lore wise, but their gameplay was great in DoW 1.

>>387109127
they used to be very cautious barely handing out the licenses to make 40k games. Then after dawn of war they just handed them out to anybody and waht resulted was a lot of budget/garbage studios getting their hands on the licenses.

No one mentions the trainwreck that is Eternal Crusade. Was supposed to be like planetside 1 level depth with modern shooter polish but it ended up being like an early prototype of gears of war.

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>>387117389
Jokes on you. That's exactly how I feel about them on the tabletop.

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>>387117286
It was only downhill after 1.73.9 though.

>>387109127
3 ways.
1: Make Dawn of War again. Literally make Dawn of War look pretty, remove the firing on the move accuracy nerf, and release it, with all the content up to Soulstorm. That's it, WH40K gaming is saved, and possibly RTS gaming is saved, probably not, but it's a baby step.

2: Make 40K Xcom. This is the truest and most fun representation of 40K on vidya possible, of things that already exist. Don't make it smurfs and pals, give options.

3: Make something more inline with a governing sim. You aren't actually controlling any battles, you set up your own chapter/klan/governorship/craftworld/hive/whatever, and handle entirely the logistics and upkeep side of warefare. Maybe not the standard gaming fare, but it is novel, there's a lot to work with, and it lets those who love their grimdark to contemplate the life of the guardsmen whose unit they just dispatched to some godforsaken hole. Plus, a spot of comfy might be just the thing 40K needs.

>>387113787
Dawn of War 3 is honestly too far gone to salvage.

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>>387118529
As someone who plays a game biweekly, I disagree. It was never as bad as people pretend it is - it's not what we wanted, but it wasn't "that" bad. With the addition of annihilation and turrets, it's perfectly playable.

Going forward, I think the next major problem is the imbalance between units and elites. It takes so many resources and time to get those units out, only for a single wierdboy ability or ven dread blast to instantly pulp them - or the endless stream of other abilities, like roks. If >>387112956 is right, the game could be on the verge of a major shift back towards classic gameplay - where elites are strong and influential but hardly the deciding factor alone. Also, the reinforce function will matter again, and strategic play with line units will take greater precedence.

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>>387112956
It's over. They killed it.

>>387110824
no, that unit and camera control is fucking horrible
when you click empty space, it should always deselect your currently selected unit

>>387109127
>Can any lessons be learned from WHFB?
Yes. Its called MAKE A GAME PEOPLE WANT.

>>387110824
Nobody mentions it because its been fucking abandoned.

>>387112956

This is the kind of balancing you do in pre-alpha, not months after your product have shipped.

>>387112956
>Though DoW1 remains my favorite, I'm still keeping distant hopes for DoW3
After seeing Company of Heroes 2 go from shit to great I too am on the same boat, but instead of painstakingly following CoH2 development I'll just check back on DoW3 in 5 years, which is the same it took for CoH2 to become the success it is today.

The only monkey wrench in that plan is that while CoH 2 released to great controversy, it wasn't downright shit in every. single. aspect. like DoW 3 is, so it might be salvageable beyond repair outside of just demolishing it all and making Dawn of War 4.

>>387112956
Yeah, it's great that we got a game that is turning into a test-bed for the B team at Relic instead of, you know, a decent 40K RTS.

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>>387120101
I never said that was great, you ass-blasted saltposter. I said that gives it the opportunity to actually become a decent RTS.

Are there at least decent modding tools for DoW3 ?

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>>387109127
>DOW III
>213

well deserved