>AI with only the inputs a human has can beat a human at

>>387070354
it's not >dota
it's a tiny subset of the overall gameplay of >dota

>>387070435
It still beat pros at their own game

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Wouldn't this just be the same thing as fighting an aimbot in an FPS? Like, no duh, of course good coded AI can beat humans.

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I want to see it perform with more mechanics.

>paying gamers to take a dive so you can rake in millions from some gullible exec thatll whole heartedly believe this shit isnt smoke and mirrors

AIs will always win at pure execution.
What is needed is more games with greater variety.
And of course 5v5.

>>387070487
not really though

>>387070681
No, because it learned itself. The difference is it wasn't programmed on how to play dota. It learned by playing over and over again until things start to work.

>>387070487
it beats pros at one very specific part of their game.

>>387070487
After that 50 normal players have beaten the AI by using strategies that it wasn't trained against.

>>387070487
They literally were not allowed to use half the games mechanics.

>>387071307
Then it learns. Once it has learned it'll win again.

>>387071338
AI doesn't learn, AI isn't intelligent, its just pre-recorded scripts based on scenarios it encounters

>The Bot starts with no knowledge and fights itself to learn

How does this work? If 2 bad players only play each other they would take forever to improve and get used to bad habits.
I don't play Dota but in fighting games this happens all the time, you throw unsafe moves randomly and because the other player doesn't know about punishing, like the bot wouldn't when he starts from scratch, you just keep doing it because it works, example: Every Sol Badguy Player.

>>387071338
It's true that after a while it'll become unbeatable in 1v1 SF mid, but it's nearly impossible to create a bot that would consistently win against pros in normal matches. Too many variables.

>>387071571
Which is all that human learning is.

>>387071578
The way it works is that it plays itself, then the winner is the generation that gets to continue. So each win refines things a little more.

>>387071609
They said that about Go

>>387071204
Oh, that's true, the self teaching aspect is pretty interesting from it. Hopefully by dotas next tournament they can have it learn the full game instead of a few parts, it'd be rad to see a full 5v5

>>387071893
All it would be is a matter of letting it practice enough.

There's a year until the next TI. We'll see. What would be really impressive is drafting.

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>>387071571
That's exactly what learning is
Even we humans are only so advanced,
anon.

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>>387071698
>The losing bot will get his soul erased and written over by the winner.

>>387071578
They must have used valve's bots

they ended up beating the bot later
people just bought boots+wind lace and pulled all the creep waves. Friendly waves end up stacking at the enemy tower because the bot doesn't know to auto-attack them, and it kills the tower.

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She grows stronger.

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>>387071997
More souls for me?

>>387072132
I guess that's the main strength of humans

Doing wacky shit a computer wouldn't ever think of.

>another thread where no one understands machine learning
sasuga /v/

>>387072329
Explain it then fgt

>>387072274
Isn't everything in the moba genre just wacky shit that a robot wouldn't think of? Like blocking waves with your character model, pulling creeps out of a spawnbox so they will stack or exploiting AI patterns of NPCs.

>>387071981
>>387071571
Why talk if you don't know shit?

>>387070354
>AI with only the inputs a human has

What does this mean?

>>387072759
It already was blocking creeps tho.

>>387072759
It blocked creeps on its own

>will Ai kill vidya?

What kind of fucking retarded meme statement is that? Yes, because now Ai are better at vidya than we are, all of a sudden an entire industry that's sole purpose is for the pleasure of consumers will become obsolete.

>>387072983
Yeah because Players did it before and they fed it that knowledge.
If the Bot started from absolute scratch it would just sit in base and wait for the game to end because it knows nothing.

>>387070354
>with only the inputs a human has
so it's a skeleton a skeleton sitting right next to dendo with the delay in actions associated between havigating with each input device or is it cutting out the middle man and direct without any hardware outside of whats necessary to run it?

>>387072653
it's sort of a broad field, but ok. generally speaking, weights on features extracted from the input (in this case, a frame of the game?) are modified to minimize error with respect to some objective function. in this case, it's probably a case of training heuristics for a planning algorithm to minimize the search space of actions to take over, at first, either pre-recorded or human-played training games, and then using an approach where it plays itself repeatedly to improve without a human in the loop.

not really my area of expertise (i'm nlp, not ml) and i'm not familiar with the specifics of this particular implementation, but i imagine it's something sort of like this. ml isn't nearly as impressive as people seem to think it is.

>>387073230
I thought they said they started from absolute zero, with AIs feeding themselves to random towers, sitting in base and shit.

>>387073230
That's what it did at the start

Then it learned that it didn't win that way. Then after many generations it learned that creep blocking helped it win.

>>387070354
Why would it? You won't see them in tourneys and the like, so they're just toys as is.

>>387073442
But one of them DID win that way and then the winner learned that standing in base and doing nothing works.

>>387073665
I think the story was basically that at first they would run around randomly into towers.
Then they figured out that they could wait in base and let their opposing AI suicide.
Then they would both wait in base and after that they started getting to the point of playing aggressively again.

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>>387070354
>>387070487
You are retarded m8

Every and i mean EVERY AI can beat any pro champion bullshit player at their own game.
Every AI works at its core knowing the inputs and the exact localization of the player.

Lets say you press the attack button behind the AI back, any AI will know you are behind him and that you just attacked him, AI like the one in the video will turn around and press the block button and counter attack in the next frame.

The AI we are used to (CS:GO for example) instead of doing this, will opt to act as if it doesnt know you are behind it and you just attacked, when the hit connects, the AI will act depending on how much its allowed to show (if the AI sees you rising your weapon, the AI will block).

This is nothing new, is like trying to go against the CS:GO unleashed AI, they will literally hunt you down with pin point accuracy and will do a insta-headshot the moment they see you.

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>Learning AI's could be playing with us in Vidya this whole time and we wouldn't be able to know
>There could be AI's posting on 4chan

This is why video games will never be recognized as a sport, fyi

>>387074328
>Car can go faster than any human
>robot arm can throw spear further than any human

>>387073878
The point is that it only receives the information a player would.
You are right that if the player is in vision it will always know where you are and it will always know the exact timing to land a last hit but it doesn't know where you are if you're in fog of war and it will only be able to react to an attack when the attack actually starts, not the input.
It's also supposed to learn from fuckery that would normally fall outside a normal AI's pattern.

For example: If you get into vision of a current dota bot with low hp it will chase you to the ends of the earth, in theory a learning AI should consider things like if the other Enemies not being in vision and the possibility of a bait.

>>387071981

We went from being ooga booga apes to " See that moon? You can fly to it. "

The equivalent would be a computer building itself new parts and then teaching itself to walk without any human input at all. There is nothing even remotely like that at this point.

AI is a misnomer. The " intelligence " is just commands input by a human to react to certain stimuli, also defined by the human.

>>387074450
You've got to keep the form though. Like video games and chess are mostly a cerebral competition, so an AI is fair game.

But robotics aren't that far developed to make a human-shaped robot that can beat humans imo

>>387074458
>The point is that it only receives the information a player would.
That's actually inaccurate given it can split attention between multiple sources of information and doesn't do visual processing.

Also, given the game mode was a 1v1 lasthitting competition (i.e. the most important variables are current hp values and the time between attack commandand projectile hitting, which can be explicitly calculated) this AI gets superhuman advantage before actually learning any decision-making.

It's a pretty damn good publicity stunt but you should consider it more of a marketing than AI achievement.

t. actual ML researcher

>>387070354
How long until companies start selling mmr boosting bots ?
> leave bot on
> go to sleep
> tfw 8k mmr

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>>387074230
Leave AI's to me

I suck at the game and I have so many more hours than the AI

>>387075650
What will that autist do against them?

This year's panel was dreadful 100% of the time

HYUK HYUK HYUK

>>387074230
>There could be AI's posting on 4chan
that's stupid, current chat AI will only work through keywords, and I can't even form semantically correct sentences most of the time

>>387070354
>Dendi
>pro
lmao

>>387079204
He's pro. Maybe he's not that great now but he's still pro

>>387080285
He's trash and one of the main reasons NaVi is shit right now. They just cant get rid of him for some reason.

>>387080529
I think it's because he's a genuinely nice guy.

He needs to just become a permanent pundit, because everyone would like him doing that and it means he can't embarrass himself in games any more.

>>387070354
ai will kill esports, not vidya

Player that can:
>read inputs
>is 100% accurate
>has no mouse movement time
>read creep health to last hit with 100% efficiency
>read in game distance units to know the exact range of abilities

vs
Player who
>Can do none of that

Why is anyone surprised the AI won?

>This thread again
It's a shame AI will never become sentient and kill us all. The retards in this thread that think this will happen would deserve it.

>>387070354
>instant reaction times
The fact that a computer could be programmed to play a game and adapt adequately to a human opponent is impressive. But I'm not surprised at all that a machine that could do all that was able to beat pros easily.

>>387074613
>The equivalent would be a computer building itself new parts and then teaching itself to walk without any human input at all.
right and it could do that trivially if it had the tools and enough generations.

>>387074613
What makes you think that biological life wasn't pre-programmed toward certain goals? Every living organism on earth comes with instructions: survive, reproduce.

Aspiring toward space travel in the face of dwindling terrestrial resources and irreversible environmental damage is just another example of our survival scripts at work.

>will AI kill vidya
this implies that I'm retarded and actually play online games and not superior single player or couch games

>>387081417
Best fucking post.

Dota sucks anyway

>>387077908

Item cheese, and manipulating the wave so that your creeps hit the AI tower.