>explains that zero wasnt a completely evil villain but rather

>>386937712
Almost everyone who grew up with MGS could come up with a better story than Hideo Kojima. He's a God-tier game designer but he's also hack who thinks nanomachines and retcons = good story telling.

I truly believe that if had been not divided on 2 chapters (for no fucknig reason)

And actually had mission 51 (resolution of Liquids plot) the fans would still clamore it as they did before relase.

Just a couple of tweaks and the public perception would be overall positive.

>>386937972
His hands weren't tied enough. That's why he wasted so much time and money on bullshit, because he had too much freedom.

>>386937712
Except that everything you just said is only revealed in the "Truth" cassette tapes, and is completely dissociated from the plot of the whole rest of the game. I enjoyed where the story was going, as it had momentum and cool ideas here and there. However, many opportunities were missed, story-threads that were started were never utilized to even the minimum-level to have a reasonable impact, chapter two was a fifth the size of the first with no real cohesion, and chapter three is an abstract concept that never happened. The game opens far too many doors and does absolutely nothing with them.

>>386938016
This and just the addition of a truly memorable Ocelot moment and we would be golden.

>>386937972
explain exactly what is wrong with MGSV's plot without muh nanomachines

>>386938167
so how the story was presented was bad instead of the story itself?

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This thread is shit

The thread is now about MGSV modding

>What are some good mods for MGSV?

>>386938289
Yes, exactly. The story is incomplete and poorly presented, leaving a fuckton of potential for something truly glorious wasted.

>>386937712
>explains that zero wasnt a completely evil villain but rather a man who saw the world differently and whose designs spiralled out of control
Something every 10 year old understood in MGS4

>casts shade on big boss, who is no longer a venerable hero but a manipulative warrior who will do anything to further the boss' legacy
Something everyone who played MGS3 MG and MG2 knew

>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games

Something which didn't need explainations, since he is also a man who managed to survive a nuke with some scratches anyway

We all can agree tha tat ipaemn+'et0qw,mui\,´wv

>>386938410
All of this could have been avoided if Kojimbo hadn't based the whole thing around the idea that "wouldn't id be cool if BB was in a 9 year coma for no reason?"

I can't even start to comprehend what in the fuck he was thinking.

>>386938528
George is too pure for this thread

>>386938419
Oh, absolutely.

>>386937712
Was there a plot? I pretty much skipped all the cutscenes and ripped through all the retarded plot elements in the main missions like the fucking zombies or the super soldiers in annoyance ruining my SOCOM placeholder mil-ops sim.

>>386938410
hardly, in 3 he's a typical hero character

>>386938705
Did you miss the ending?

>Big boss get iPad

DROPPED

>>386938874
yeah he kills the boss because she convinces him that its necessary, hardly an evil act

>>386938213
Not that anon, but if I can chime in:
>Venom's depiction as a character is bipolar as fuck in every scene and his plot-twist raises several questions about how a man who is the moral opposite of Big Boss could willingly act as his puppet for ten years following the ending when no amount of hero worship and delusion will mask that he got fucked over
>Venom being a vector for the player is not a defense for the above because Venom does have a personality and moral code separate from the player's agenda, which is also why his lack of dialogue where it is called for is unjustifiable
>Skull Face being a distant primary antagonist who dies too soon is a nice idea but at the end of the day he's a pretentious tryhard edgelord whose plans make no sense, has absolutely no charm beyond an unintentional meme, and actually made Hot (fucking) Coldman look legendary by comparison
>Eli/Liquid Snake is brought into the picture for seemingly no reason, his motivations are one-note even compared to the MGS, and his relationships with Venom, Psycho Mantis, Ocelot, and Kaz are all severely underdeveloped
>the parasites make for an excellent origin story for nanomachines but they are a clean example of Kojima doing something because it sounds cool rather than thinking about it because even after hours of cassette tapes left by le ebin "MALE-TO-FEMALE WOLBACHIA TO STOP COPULATION" man it is still very unclear how they work
>Quiet (and her bond with Venom) is severely under utilized, her agenda is only slightly less confusing than Naomi's in MGS4, and there are multiple plotholes regarding her refusal to communicate and her "death"

>>386939072
You're a fucking idiot

>>386939280
Not an argument

>>386938137
This desu.
Kojima surrounds himself with people who praise him or suck his dick like Joost. Literally no one criticizes or controls him and he releases some retarded crap.

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>>386939398
>Not an argument
How the fuck isn't it?

>>386939280
in regards to venom, his surgery and memory replacement have probably caused him some degree of mental problems, disassociation etc. which is the reason for his lack of dialogue and general distant personality throughout 5

The story being unfinished is greatly overblown.

Skullface's arc was finished
Huey's arc was finished
Paz's arc was finished
Quiet's arc was finished
It's only really Eli's that's left completely hanging, and the Special Edition shows what was meant to happen.

I think what throws people off is the fact that Chapter 2 was so short, the thing is Chapter 2 is a very poor name for it, it's more like an epilogue. It's not about telling a new story but rather showing the aftermath after Skullface is gone, and how Diamond Dogs still has problems. PHANTOM PAIN AND ALL THAT.

>>386940301
The story is not unfinished because there is barely one to begin with
Skullface's "Arc" is quite literally the two missions where Sallythropus appears

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At a fundamental level, cut dev-time and corporate-level shenanigans aside, MGS V made some very odd choices.

This game was a natural fit for being extremely character-driven, as much as, if not more so, than any MGS before it. The marketing around the game and the natural progression of the narrative made this clear. This was going to showcase in explicit detail how Big Boss made a transition from disillusioned, potenitally misunderstood anti-hero to someone significantly less moral.

Instead, narrative focus was stripped back. A bizarre doppelganger plot was introduced. Snake became a silent protagonist. He never really does anything truly evil. The one moment the game tries to portray as being of dubious moral quality (execution in the hospital) is entirely reasonable in context, and an argument can even be made that his actions were benevolent, akin to mercy killing.

This is to mention nothing of the needless revival or introduction of narrative elements from other titles in the series (The Man on Fire, Eli, Psycho Mantis). Such writing just makes the universe of MGS feel small and replete with coincidence.

I have a pretty high tolerance for weird shit in narratives, especially within the context of MGS: you've got robot dinosaurs, meowing gun-toters, a man who shoots lightning out of himself, a floating psychic, etc. But the hypnosis shit as a justification for the doppelganger plot was a bridge too far. It reads like the insane leap of logic someone who really wants their fan-fiction scenario to be true is willing to take. This is compounded by the lack of self-awareness the characters have. There's a tape where Snake discusses child Psycho Mantis, and the possibilty of psychic powers if floated. His response is "nah man, that's just too crazy". Yeah man, psychic powers in this universe? Too wacky. Now, let me fight this perpetually burning man in Africa and Afghanistan, who should have been dead for the last 15 years.

>>386939280
>>386939384
>>386939750
No, seriously. How?
>inconsistent characterization of the main character
>meta-plot is a borderline non-factor in main character's characterization because the protagonist is nowhere near as passive as critics have you believe and player choice is virtually nonexistent in the story
>poorly written main antagonist
>fanservice inclusion of a past character in a prequel and doing nothing with him in terms of story nor building the fundamental relationships that characterize him in the first game of the Solid series complicates the continuity needlessly
>botched World Building through a major plot-point regarding the supernatural not having its fundamental rules laid out for the audience to understand, despite its significance in this plot and -- as the precursor to nanomachines -- the series as a whole
>a major character is introduced, very little is done with her, and entire plot points regarding her from start to finish have more holes than Swiss cheese
Also, this: >>386940353

>>386940417
>Instead, narrative focus was stripped back. A bizarre doppelganger plot was introduced. Snake became a silent protagonist. He never really does anything truly evil. The one moment the game tries to portray as being of dubious moral quality (execution in the hospital) is entirely reasonable in context, and an argument can even be made that his actions were benevolent, akin to mercy killing.

thats because venom's morality was never in question, its big boss who we were supposed to see become a villain

>>386940417
>Instead, narrative focus was stripped back. A bizarre doppelganger plot was introduced. Snake became a silent protagonist. He never really does anything truly evil. The one moment the game tries to portray as being of dubious moral quality (execution in the hospital) is entirely reasonable in context, and an argument can even be made that his actions were benevolent, akin to mercy killing.

This is completely intentional though.

Remember "Kaz, I'm already a demon"? And how Venom Snake actually says this at the very start of the game? MGSV isn't about seeing Big Boss go bad, it's about Venom Snake questioning if his methods were all that good to begin with. Since Venom Snake is the memetic clone of Big Boss, he became something closer to the legend than the actual man himself.

>>386940840
>>386939398
Meant to link this one. Apparently had a stroke while clicking.

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>>386940840
>he never responded
gg no re

Two enormous, non-sensical plot holes:

>We need a doppelganger to keep you safe.
Ok. Why the fuck is he right next to me in the very same room of this hospital? What the fuck is this nonsense? This is the best strategy we have for using a doppelganger? Why am I still in the hospital at all? I'm not in a coma.

>We need the doppelganger to build a military nation-state. This will distract everyone from the fact that you're also building a huge military nation state in parallel.

What? How the fuck is my nation-state construction going to be any less conspicuous?


These are two fundamental parts of the plot. It seems that any plot-hole analysis was left unchecked, or was tolerated in order to get this meta-narrative about doppelgangers going.

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Venom is a good goy and big boss is a scared feg ... what does that make gingered snake???

Reminder that Peace Walker and V add literally nothing to the overall plot of the series and only confuses its convuluted lore further.

>>386941223
>Why is he right next to me
Misdirection for assassins.
>I'm not in a coma
The phantom needs a one-man army to guide him to the meeting point when the hospital goes up in flames.
>How the fuck is my nation-state construction going to be any less conspicuous?
Genuine plothole. The Diamond Dogs should've been the foundation for Outer Heaven, and at most, Naked Snake should've guided Venom from the shadows rather than established his own military nation-state.

>>386941359
this

It should have all stopped at MGS3. There was plenty of information there already. The ending gave plenty of implication as to why he would fall from grace in the way that he did.

There was no need for any of the complete weeb-tier convuluted bullshit that followed. All it did was muddy the original, solid ending and the implied lore that would follow.

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>>386941223
Big Boss was in a coma too. He woke a week earlier than Venom.
Also people should start considering that the TRUTH mission could be a lie.

>>386941615
>Misdirection for assassins.

Yeah, dude. They see two Snakes, so they just shoot one and stop, knowing that there was a 50% chance they were correct in their actions.

>>386941665
>Also people should start considering that the TRUTH mission could be a lie.

This is an unusual interpretation of the narrative.

>>386941717
>two snakes
You mean a guy who looks like Snake and some other guy with both of his eyes that is decorated more like a mummy than Big Boss. I mean hey, technically it worked. Quiet didn't figure it out during the XOF raid, and it's only implied in her song that she only figured it out between chapter one and two.
>>386941665
>Also people should start considering that the TRUTH mission could be a lie
Except that it would be completely inconsistent with the rest of the story. This theory has less merit than the Chico is Quiet theory.

>>386937712
>>explains that zero wasnt a completely evil villain but rather a man who saw the world differently and whose designs spiralled out of control
MGS4 already did this, and making Zero a villain is a questionable decision in the first place
>>casts shade on big boss, who is no longer a venerable hero but a manipulative warrior who will do anything to further the boss' legacy
3's ending already did this perfectly without shoving it in your face with bad writing like PW and V
>>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games
Literally nobody cared about this especially since the MSX games were retconned so hard they might as well be non-canon

I like PW and V as games but as an overall part of the MGS story they only serve to make it much dumber.

>>386941768
>This is an unusual interpretation of the narrative

Not really, the game takes place during 1984 and has tons of references to the book. During the Paz story we learn that Venom Snake can hallucinate people, locations and even tapes. Ishmael has the exact same face model as the Medic, and the TRUTH mission starts with "There are no facts, only interpretations"

MGSV could basically all be a bad fever dream, it's impossible to know and designed that way.

>Parasites that kill people who speak a specific language
Yes, a completely flawless plot.

I just started playing through Mgs4 again this week and it made me realize how awful the pacing and everything is in V

>Actual gameplay (cutscenes aren't that bad fuck off you can skip them)
>multiple paths to objectives where you can get creative and doesn't rely on the open world meme
>Actual real guns with realistic tactics/soldiers and combat instead of braindead guards in outposts
>story and objectives that actually proceeds forward instead of just aimlessly fultoning people

Just a few things I've noticed and I've only finished Act 1. The gameplay actually feels as fluid or better to Mgs V to me too. It's just tacticool as fuck too so you actually feel like and oper8tr instead of some errand boy doing menial tasks and fultoning people and sheep

>>386942245
>inb4 "b-b-but Old DHIN-EHH and Skull Face said dialects and sister languages can't be mistaken for the real thing!"

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>>386937712
>explains that zero wasnt a completely evil villain but rather a man who saw the world differently and whose designs spiralled out of control
And it makes absolutely zero (haha) sense given what Peace Walker and 4 tell us.
>casts shade on big boss, who is no longer a venerable hero but a manipulative warrior who will do anything to further the boss' legacy
Which is a complete rehash from what we know about him from both MGS3 and a twenty year old MSX game.
>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games
That was explained in Metal Gear 1.

Learn the games' plot before trying to defend garbage.

>>386942246
I think if MGS4 got a PS4 or PC port with a better framerate people would realize just how much better the gameplay is in that game compared to V. When people say V has better gameplay what they really mean is the framerate is better (on next gen consoles and PC) so aiming is a hell of a lot smoother. That's the only thing V's gameplay does better than 4's, a lot of the stealth mechanics are dumbed down as fuck.

>>386942673
I'd love a PC port.

>>386942673
>I think if MGS4 got a PS4 or PC port with a better framerate people would realize just how much better the gameplay is in that game compared to V.

Nope, MGS4's gameplay sucks ass.

Stupid Psyche meter
Retarded alert system
Drebin shop
Overpowered shooting controls

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What V does well:
>Comparing Big Boss to a parasite in a game that's thematically about parasites
>Snake controlls great, even though the game doesn't allow the same freedom of movement as, say - MGS3 or 4
>Optimization for the PC version is literally amazing and should be a shining example on how to port a video game
>The entire hidden Paz storyline (this is the best written thing in the game, works on many different levels - especially in fleshing Venom out, it's a hint towards Venom identity and on the meta on a meta-commentary on PW - I'm 90% sure Kojima either didn't touch it or simply cared about Peace Walker more than anything in V)
>The Venom twist, while completely unnecessary, plot-holey and predictable, SORT OF makes sense in the narrative
>Whatever you think about Huey suddenly turning into a murderous, delusional cunt and how that may make zero sense given his Peace Walker self, his mental breakdown alone was potrayed fairly well
>Sniper Wolf, Gray Fox, Naomi, Solidus, and a couple of other well established characters were spared from appearing in this

That's it. Everything else that's not above varies from bad to horribly fucking insulting.

>>386942673
Yeah the stealth is definitely very easy since you can just cling to a wall and use octocamo. It really made me realize how annoying it was that there were no friendlies in V
>Friendly insurgents pushing forward up alleyway
>One gets picked off, the others get down and yell for help
>use binos to scope area
>catch muzzle flash in 3rd story window; spot a sniper and spotter
>flank around and be a sneeky snek
>make way to building, and up to 3rd story
>As he takes another shot I get to his spotter, turn him around and disarm him of his SCAR, and throw him to the ground
>I then grab the sniper, and as the spotter is getting back up, I pull my pistol, kill him, then kill the sniper
>Insurgents push up killing the rest of the PMC troops, capture the area, then cheer

It's just really intense senpai. I don't remember needing to get this tacticool in . The fact that you can do so many things with the CQC is sexy as fuck

>>386938213
>muh vocal cord parasites
did you even play the fucking game

>>386943135
Shhhh

>>386937972
he didnt go totally fucking retard until PW.

>>386943135
shhhhhh

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>>386938349
Here, have this cassette tape randomly that explains part of the plot.
How did I get them?
Who recorded them?
Nobody knows.
Such a shitty, cheap game mechanic. The Truth tapes were the end of the rope for me.

>>386943537
>Here, have this cassette tape randomly that explains part of the plot
>How did I get them [and] who recorded them? Nobody knows
THIS, THIS, FUCKING THIS. Holy shit this irked me.

>>386943537
>>386943636
I think these truth tapes are fake. They must be, if Big Boss knew that Zero didn't actually hate him and was just grossly incompetent like everyone else in V then what the fuck was up with him going all "did he hate me or just fear me lol" during 4's ending?

Also, what in the flying fucking shit is with Paz wanting to murder Zero and being so afraid of him during the events of Ground Zeroes and Peace Walker? He fucking treats her like a caring grandpa, and it's implied that he never even wanted Snake in danger. This makes no sense given the ending of PW.

And these plotholes and the forced twist that you're not playing as BB aren't even the worst thing about V's plot. That would be Chapter 1.

>>386943817
>And these plotholes and the forced twist that you're not playing as BB aren't even the worst thing about V's plot. That would be Chapter 1.

I honestly can't pinpoint one "thing" to be the worst: everything is due to poor game design choices, the game couldn't shape well with that plan no matter how much effort you could put into it

>>386943817
Because the real BB never heard these tapes, and he was still in a coma when the words came out of Zero's mouth. Venom was the only one who heard them.

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>>386941917
>Except that it would be completely inconsistent with the rest of the story. This theory has less merit than the Chico is Quiet theory.
How so? You would have a point if the game wasn't full of hallucinations, PTSD and information controll.

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>>386943967
I think it could've, but they needed to work at it longer and completely rewrite the plot. Quiet and Code Talker are completely unnecessary as characters, so is Child Mantis - there's no reason for them existing, especially given the fact that the cast of PW still exists.

Miller needs to be re-written to appear less like a caricature and more like a human, being obsessed with revenge to that degree is just comical. I also wouldn't remove any of his limbs, that's not what he was about.

Eli is another waste of time with zero pay-off, and I'd be saying that even if his final mission was actually included in the game. He's barely a character.

Skull Face's plan is overly complicated and the way he actually takes down Zero is stupidly convenient. Re-write him as well so that he's actually a professional leading a professional black-ops organization that does more than just bodyguard him, not an insane person.

Find a way of having Diamond Dogs actually be at war with XOF considering both groups wanted to kill each other and it would make no sense for Skull Face to ignore them as he does in TPP. Vague plans involving horse-face mute snipers don't count, given that Kojima couldn't write any of this well.

Erase parasites and half-dead Africans jumping up 15 meters into the air from the plot completely, if you want parallels with Big Boss being a parasitic asshole there are less literal ways of doing that. I could go on for much longer but you get the point from this autistic writing.

>>386944171
>Because the real BB never heard these tapes, and he was still in a coma when the words came out of Zero's mouth. Venom was the only one who heard them.
That makes no sense given Zero's final tape when talking over his hospital body. You'd THINK he'd leave Big Boss some way of accessing that shit, maybe write a letter or something, etc. You know, so that there's no resulting misunderstanding that MAYBE ends up fucking up the entire world?

>>386937712

How is Outer Heaven supposed to be The Boss' legacy? He already realized in PW that The Boss ceased being a soldier the moment she laid down her arms for Jack to kill her and that the idea behind OH is pretty much Anti-Her.

>>386944626
>overly complicated
He's a radical AnCap that hates westernization. It boils down to: "I'm gonna erase English as a lingua franca and make it possible for individuals to possess nukes so people have a language of deterrence. What? That doesn't make sense? Fuck you, it's my will." Otherwise you're spot on.
>horse-face mute snipers
u wot m8

>>386943135
>can't shoot out guards' radios
>AI is far worse
>ez mode slow motion if you get caught
>Far Cry wall hacks
>even more useless filler weapons than 4
4 is far from perfect but the first two missions wipes the floor with anything in V

>>386944890
>What? That doesn't make sense? Fuck you, it's my will
Well, yeah. He's half insane and there's no way that plan of his would've been beneficial or actually honored The Boss' will in any way. That's another thing that just reinforces everyone's incompetence and it unfortunately goes beyond V's shitty plot - The Boss wasn't some sort of radical thinker, she just wanted people to work together and respect each other. There are huge problems with that given the actions of BB, Zero and Skull Face and how they're supposedly smart enough to take over the United States of America.

I guess this just goes to show that having to conclude three games worth of retcons is a bit dumb and Kojima was fucked over when writing 4 because of that. V to me has no excuse though, considering GZ was a perfect setup for it.

I don't blame KONAMI for shitcanning Kojima and his studio. How he and his staff squandered so many years to make this was baffling. I almost wonder if his plan wasn't to see how long he could pull KONAMI's chain, but then it backfired.

>>386937972
>the legends doesn't match the reality
This narrative has been since MGS1, probably MG2 too, don't know, never played it. So when the story is explained more and more it gets more bland with nanomachines and parasites instead of cool dudes doing cool things. Yet the brainlets doesn't get the point.

I'm not a gay but Venom is one handsome motherfucker.

>>386937972
MGS4 is the story a fan would come up with, so shut the fuck up.

>MGS 4 defenders
Kill yourselves
Worst game in the series

David Oh is a cryptojew

>>386939280
It honestly would make more sense if the events of the original Metal Gear were the result of Venom and Kaz revolting against Big Boss, and the Big Boss ending up rolling with it to keep Venom's real identity a secret. Venom being forever faithful is stupid.

>>386946054
>>386946076
You people need to stop acting like everyone who criticizes Kojima's writing (be it anywhere from MG1 to V) automatically thinks MGS4 is good.

4 is a dumpster fire but it had to bridge three game's worth of wanton, reckless fucking retconning. V has the perfect setup. 4 went overboard with exposition because Kojima went full retard, V has zero exposition as a result and is afraid to even bring back codec. 4 was criticized for nanomachines, V has something even worse.

Et cetera. So if you want to argue that Kojima sucks as a writer, I think V shows that more. I think it's also possible he just REALLY didn't give a fuck at this point.

>>386946327
I couldn't agree more if I tried. Given that Kaz tells Ocelot straight up that he's going to help make Venom (and the clones) a credible threat to surpass Big Boss, and after you complete The Truth mission, soldiers start saying they'll serve you no matter who you really are, it seems like Venom and Kaz are already contradicting Venom's supposed loyalty to the end and upholding of the ruse.

>>386937712
>>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games
This never needed an explanation, and is in fact exacerbated by the fact in doing so it raises the question of how Volgin was able to survive the events of MGS3 but Big Boss theoretically could not have survived MG1.

>>386946773
Stop making me remember that Volgin is in V.

>>386946773
>how Volgin was able to survive the events of MGS3
So it's believable that he controls lightning, but surviving a fight is not believable?

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>>386937712
>Snake, did I ever tell you about the time your father and I saved the world from a man with no face who was trying to start a nuclear arms race by unleashing a parasite that killed anyone who spoke English? Well, he wasn't actually your father. He was a body double. After your father went into a coma following an attack on mother base, we convinced some guy that looked like him that he was really big boss so that he could take over operations at mother base while your father started a new nation to fulfil his interpretation of his dead mentor's dying wish while preventing an organization that secretly runs the American government from fulfilling their interpretation of that same wish. Actually, that's why I'm here at shadow moses in the first place - secretly putting into motion a plan to destroy the patriots while also secretly under the order of the American president who is also your brother to retrieve the test data of metal gear rex against the patriot's wishes. He was a good friend.

>>386946989
You can take literally any story arc in mgs series, turn it intoa monologue like that and it will sound retarded.

>>386947143
You sure can.

>>386945030
V allows you to take out comsystems, and disabling reflex still allows you to take out enemies before they scream "HOSTILE"

Meanwhile in MGS4 you literally get instant alerts no matter what if spotted, and everyone in a warzone guns only for you because nanomachines.

MGS4's gameplay sucks ass and is inferior to MGS2, MGS3 and MGSV.

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>>386946989
>this is literally what happened and was going on

>>386941665
That's really stupid Big Boss only woke up a week before. For one, he literally says he's been watching over Venom for 9 years, and Kojima himself said BB has only been in one coma when Snake almost kills him in MG2.

I have to poop but I'm holding it in because I like the way it feels

The main plot is on the periphery of the game because you are the fake and dissociated from the main events of the series

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>>386937712
>try to play MGO3
>completely unplayable
>CQC is absolute dogshit
>try to run and punch and the game just stops me in place and does a quick jab
>other players CQCing just ends up with them pulling a *teleports behind you* on me
Should I just buy a PS3 and play MGO2

>>386940301
They reach an end, they're not necessarily complete. Skullface's storyline is quite lackluster and it's obvious stuff was cut all across the board that was meant to give the whole thing more substance. Like the car ride, and Skullface's speech being quite obviously assembled from what was originally tapes, not a speech to Venom.

>>386948135
didn't the MGO2 servers get taken down?

>>386948287
It's been revived

I'm the only person who thought quiet was hot

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The ruse is real

>>386948135
Just buy a ps3

What ever story was in the game was fine but it wasn't expanded apon
It's kind of like if [food thing] did [food thing]

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>>386948601
>I'm the only person who thought Quiet was hot
You're not even the only person ITT who thought Quiet was hot.

>>386940840
The whole point was the reveal of The Boss' sacrifice and the role Big Boss played in falsely establishing her as a war criminal, which got him his fucking name in the first place, is what disgusted BB about the treatment of soldiers like himself and set him down the path which eventually would lead to him creating Outer Heaven.

It was trying to expand on the aftermath of that with Peace Walker, MGS4 & MGS5 which turned everything into a fucking pile of shit.

>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games

This was a portion of the already flimsy canon that did not need to be explained because Metal Gear is only canon to MGS insofar as Solid Snake did a mission in Zanzibar and there was a place called Outer Heaven.

Trying to make some shitty MSI games that barely have a story fit into some grand story of games that came out decades later is retarded and Kojima should be ashamed of himself.

>Didn't even do anythign with the AI pod until the end of the game
>Only brought it back to hear that strangelove died in it
>Sits ontop of mother base doing nothing
>Sehappybus fucks off never to be seen again
>Never find out what happens to it

>>386940417
>He never really does anything truly evil.
That's kinda the point: he's being depicted as an evil guy but he's trying his best to be good. He pretends to kill those kids, he abducts soldiers that never return, he kills his own men... he's only forced to do it because that's the best choice, and the whole world see him as a terrorist while he's trying to save it.

That was the not subtle at all reason behind half the shit in this game.

>>386947460
Dude, it's explicitly stated that Big Boss woke up when the plane with Psycho Mantis flew over the hospital.
I know there are a few incosistency in MGSV, maybe it's because of hallucinations, mental disorders or brainwashing, the game has all of them.

>>386946945
MGS3's villains were all "legends" the whole story was told like a fable. The point you're being chased by The Fury's fire face is the time to accept that.

Having the character not be dead is just lazy like every other kojimass-pull

>>386949153
A 10 year old computer probably isn't really useful

>>386949517
>MGS science progresses at the same rate as real world science.
Yeah man, those hologram-projecting GPS devices that were also global-range walkie talkies and remotes for a robot cigar that emits a chemical that makes time pass at an accelerated rate that everyone had in the 80s were so clunky.

>>386948974
See: >>386940943
I wasn't the retard that >>386939384 replied to.

>>386946945
Yes, because there's nothing that ever implies that him getting struck by thunder then shot by hundreds of bullets on his on body and blown up was just a flesh wound.

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>>386949301
>That's kinda the point: he's being depicted as an evil guy but he's trying his best to be good. He pretends to kill those kids, he abducts soldiers that never return, he kills his own men... he's only forced to do it because that's the best choice, and the whole world see him as a terrorist while he's trying to save it.

This, Venom Snake is a good man stuck in a bad place.

He tries to be the best person he can be and take the moral high ground because in his mind that is what Big Boss should do; but there's no escaping the fact that what he does for a living can hardly be classified as good. Hence the whole indentity crisis and guilt complex.

>>386950412
Once you get past how stupid the twist is, Venom is one of the few genuinely interesting characters introduced in the prequels.

>>386937712
The game was unfinished in the sense that they didn't get to finish Kingdom of the Flies and set up MGS1 and had to put a lot of stuff into the Truth tapes rather than have it in some cut-scenes or missions.

However, the conflict with Skull Face and the end of Miller and Snake's quest for revenge was 100% done. It was meant to be unsatisfying and inconclusive, it's called the Phantom Pain for a reason.

>>386950598
This desu

>>386940908
>Remember "Kaz, I'm already a demon"?

Exactly, that was Venom's morality judging what he now thought were his memories of his owns actions.

His memory was not overriden by the hypnosis.

>>386941223
>What? How the fuck is my nation-state construction going to be any less conspicuous?
because everyone else is building shit too.

FOBs are part of the MG canon.

>>386946407
Neither did I. Why would I give a fuck about a series that was ruined beyond redemption with 4?

>>386937972
>He's a God-tier game designer
The gameplay and actual design are easily the worst fucking part of his games.

>>386943303
>Sniper Wolf, Gray Fox, Naomi, Solidus, and a couple of other well established characters were spared from appearing in this

I never thought about that as a positive before. You're probably right.

>>386937712
>go fight Zoro in the desert while the real Big Boss is building Outer Heaven
>also here's resurrected Volgin for some reason, watch as he looks menacing for a few missions then has an anticlimactic death without a boss fight
It sucked.

>>386947669
this guy gets it

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>>386951789

>>386950598
I agree, MGSV's story is a mess but Venom Snake is one of the best things Kojima has come up with since Raiden.

The idea of a Snake that's a memetic clone instead of a genetic clone is actually super compelling. Venom Snake's head is understandably a fucking mess since he's literally been brainwashed.

>>386949676
Not to mention perfect human cloning in the 1970s.

>>386952156
>>386947669
>I made the game have shitty writing on purpose just to rehash a twenty year old twist
deep

How would you make it better? Explain in detail?

>>386952384
>Explain in detail
You weren't here for the last three years and threads like this one?

>>386952509
I was. I just enjoy the answers.

>>386952316
I like the idea too but it wasn't really a consequential part of the story. It could've been the real big boss the whole time and nothing would change. It doesn't add some deeper insight into the series' narrative like it was clearly intended to.

Plus, Raiden already largey fulfilled the role of memetic clone in MGS2.

>>386952384
My suggestion would be to not make it. Getting more and more granular about the saga of Big Boss degrades his core character concept.

A soldier used and betrayed by his country to further a political agenda becomes disillusioned with the political aspect of war, and founds a nation of soldiers that won't be used for any purpose but to fight. That's literally everything we need to know about Big Boss.

We definitely do not need to know about his secret body double who tooled around in afghanistan for a while and shot off the legs of a burn victim while he put bugs in everybody's throats.

MGSV accomplishes absolutely nothing important. It was sold as this vital link in the story of Big Boss and how he became the villain we know him as, and then it turns out it isn't. Instead it's about someone else doing something unrelated that never ended up mattering at all in the greater MGS canon.

>>386952384
It would have to be a totally different game. The story is unsalvagable but it's not like they didn't have options, either.

It could have been Metal Gear 1 or an immediate prequel to it through big boss's perspective. Maybe have it focused on BB's efforts in taking over zanzibar while deterring US interference and eventually facing Solid Snake.

Maybe have a game about the boss in WWII with the Cobra unit utilized ala MGSV's buddy system. Almost anything would've been better.

>>386953115
The buddy system just made the game too easy.

>>386939280
>is the moral opposite of big boss
he wasn't a moral opposite, though. he largely agreed with everything big boss was doing and was loyal to the cause, and that was why it was so easy to make him a puppet. the point is that even if you are on the side of who you think is a moral beacon, you might still be a monster pursuing your truth.

>>386953413
You know, you can choose to not bring anyone with you. Or just use D-Walker or D-Horse for transportation purpose.

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>>386952647
>I like the idea too but it wasn't really a consequential part of the story. It could've been the real big boss the whole time and nothing would change.

I'm not so sure about that, since Venom Snake is the memetic clone of Big Boss his personality seems a lot more heroic.

Technically speaking, Venom Snake is loyal to Big Boss; but subcontiously, I think he's actually more loyal to The Boss. Venom Snake is closer to being a pacifist. He goes along with the plan to get back at Skullface, but it's actually Miller who seems to be the one obsessed with revenge, he almost seems to go along reluctantly. And when Diamond Dogs wants Huey's blood, Venom Snake puts his foot down. There's also the whole nuclear disarment aspect.

I think the point of Venom Snake is to show us that Big Boss isn't the legend we thought he was, Venom Snake is actually closer.

Repill me on why Metal Gear series doesn't have the stupidest story.
Decent gameplay.

>>386942673
They'd have to explain away the PS3 references.

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>>386954252
Venom is too pure for those private forces shenanigans.

>>386953683
Why would I use D-Walker for transportation purpose when it's just slower than D-Horse?

>>386954252
>He almost seems to go along reluctantly
I don't know how you could infer that seeing as Venom basically has like 5 lines in the entire game.

>>386954508
They can either cut those parts or just give sony some free advertisement.

>>386937712
and the ending. It opened new plot elements and didn't close them on the last game in the entire series. Such as where did eli take the metal gear and why?

>>386954637
He's not and the fulton ballista is funny.

>>386954724
There was a cut mission when you find Eli with the Metal Gear, and you end up taking it back off of him.

>>386954724
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk

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>>386954646
Face mocap and him saying at the start that they are fighting for the future and not the past.
Also him not shooting at skull face until Kaz grab his hand.
Unless you are legit on the spectrum you can read Venom emotions even if he doesn't talk much.

>>386954917
Yeah but by being a cut mission, it completely changes the nature of what is now the ending.

Eli fucks off with two of the most powerful weapons the world has ever seen, and then... just hangs out with Psycho Mantis for 20 years? Never releases the English parasite or uses Sahelanthropus for any reason at any point? Not even to pull out as a secret weapon to kill Solid Snake at Shadow Moses?

By removing the mission that explains what happens to those things, they had a responsibility to change that plot point. Instead they just leave in the most critical thing that happens in the game, but then never explain it or connect it to the larger series story.

>>386952384
I would base it on a spin off the story that the Heart of Darkness presents, instead of whatever Kojima likes to think that The Phantom Pain is based on thematically. Because I can tell you it sure as shit wasn't 1984 and Lord of the Flies. When the truth tapes completely misunderstood the idea of "doublethink" I rolled my eyes like a fucking madman.

That doesn't mean that Big Boss would be shooting children, like people who dislike anyone criticizing V would like to think. He'd be forced to commit increasingly horrid shit because the circumstances of being at war with Skull Face and Zero constantly would necessitate it.

So he'd train child soldiers for use in regional conflicts, attack XOF in any way possible, deal with their retaliation, scrape by for funds by fanning the flames of war, etc. Eventually that would change him fully into the disillusioned person he is in MG1, willing to sacrifice his own people just to fan the flames of war.

Would it be less like MGS2 in terms of unnecessary twists? Yep. Would it show that sometimes wanting something too much and being in shitty circumstances at the same time can turn you into a monster? Yep. Would Skull Face and Zero be potrayed as competent? Yep.

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>>386954759
MGSV gameplay is bori-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERyUahj2tmo

>>386954646
Well for one Venom Snake always seems quite sad and not very excited about anything. When he takes action and talks in cutscenes he almost always seems to do so for a good purpose. When he goes to kill Skullface he's completely silent.

>>386937712
>explains that zero wasnt a completely evil villain but rather a man who saw the world differently and whose designs spiralled out of control
MGS4 already made Zero sympathetic by saying all he wanted was to create The Boss' One Nation Government, but when he got whatever disease he had, The PAtriot AI took over and corrupted his ideals, leading to The Patriots. Zero and the MGS3 radio crew were never the bad guys, but MGSV goes out of its way to make Zero too sympathetic.
>casts shade on big boss, who is no longer a venerable hero but a manipulative warrior who will do anything to further the boss' legacy
I never played Peace Walker because I don't play shit games, but I know MGS3 told enough and PW probably did what you said.
>explains how big boss was able to survive the events of MG1 and reappear in further MG2 and further MGS games
Besides the truth tapes, that's the only thing it did explain

>>386955331
Pretty much this.

Focus one one point of story and stick with the guns.
Right now the overall story has too many things going on.

Its supposed to be a; "Hero goes bad and is PUNISHED" trope.
Now its nothing but a clusterfuck of really good ideas that none work because no focus.

Did you like Quiet? Did you like her conclusion?
Why?
Why not?

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>it wasn't Chico with a bomb up his ass that blew up in Ground Zeroes
>Paz didn't come back more grown as a spy sidekick that dies pursuing Zero
>Quiet wasn't an uncontrollable victim of rape that you eventually bring home and clothe
>your best soldiers didn't unlock special titles based on MG1 and 2 bosses
>we never actually got to customize our bases thoroughly as we were told
>we never actually got to see Big Boss become a demon centered around creating a cycle of revenge to give war and thus purpose to soldiers
>you never adopted, trained, and killed child soldiers
>Miller never actually hated Africans and never made good judgements for the team
>Skullface never had a good plan
>we never pursued Zero in New York
>Big Boss never sacrificed his men for his goals but rather killed them for their sake
>Africa wasn't largely jungle
>Big Boss was never carrying out vicious attacks all for revenge
>the Man on Fire wasn't just Big Boss' past haunting him as exaggerated by Mantis

>>386957752
If only...

>Big Boss never sacrificed his men for his goals but rather killed them for their sake
I felt legitimately upset after killing my own soldiers though.

Imagine if there was a scene where that still happens, but V undergoes an almost PTSD like fit of rage at Miller and Ocelot before one them snapping him out of it saying something like "You never cared for them, Boss! They're just soldiers!"

>>386952316
>but Venom Snake is one of the best things Kojima has come up with since Raiden.

how? Venom was more likeable than Raiden and they were both characters crated for th sole purpose of delivering a shitty message.

>>386952647
>Plus, Raiden already largey fulfilled the role of memetic clone in MGS2.

being a wannabee of a better character (and failing) is a memetic clone?