Why RTS games not popular today? I seen too many good RTS games

>>386936408
Consoles.

Meta n no fun allowed elitists

>>386936408
name some op. Most are shit.

>>386936465
that is any game

>>386936408
because rtsfags only care about necroshit and literally ignore all new games

>>386936408
Esports, gookclicking, shitty matchmaking, free mobas stealing the normie audience, and Blizzard.

>>386936408
The guy who made that picture is an idiot since walling yourself in is essential in Red Alert 3.

You need to do it properly, though. Not in such a convoluted pretty way.

>Japanese get GitS music.
>GitS is using nothing but Bulgarian folk sung by Japanese.

It's funny how the C&C games always pandered to various local nations because Europe is the de-facto market for RTS games.

>>386936408
Because they keep trying to remake Starcraft or C&C, maybe putting some shit gimmick.

Strategy games like Total War that actually put their own spin on things and have their own formula are insanely popular

File: Tiberium Feel.jpg (32KB, 314x378px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 314x378px

Saturday RTS support group thread?

>>386936513

It's especially bad in RTS, OP image for example

>>386936408

I got caught up in building a base then trying to finish the mission.

Why didn't they just make a fucking massive building sim game where its open world. In a xcom/warzone 2100 kind of way. Have a homeworld hub where you build your base and protect from invading enemies, go on missions to get upgrades etc. Develop FOBs.

>>386936468

Red Alert 2
Command & Conquer General
Dawn of War series

But luckily Age of Empires II is making a comeback.

>>386936669
>OP image for example

See >>386936608.

Red Alert 3 is the only C&C game where walls serve an actual purpose throughout the game. The person in the picture is bad at the game.

>>386936726
That sounds pretty awesome.

what are some comfy base building RTS games

no need to mention stronghold

>>386936408
Lack of innovation or "borrowing" features from great, but unpopular games, and everything becoming distinctly similar. Honestly, the last RTS to really impress me was Dawn of War, entirely for the melee tie-up (I know Battle Realms had it before DoW, but it felt more useful to tie up an entire squad of ranged units with a disposable mini-squad of chaff) and morale features.

File: 1490608187107.jpg (7KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 275x183px

OP's image makes me wonder: are there any RTSs that actually do reward you for having an organised base?

the thing is, RTS are great as singleplayer games and those obviously don't die from a lack players, they just sit there waiting for you to pick 'em up again.

but as multiplayer games they suck cock. they are ridiculously difficult to balance, because you can never only buff or debuff units and attacks, but also always have to consider map design, so if you want a perfectly balanced game you can only have a single map that is also completely mirrored on one side, that makes multiplayer more fair. but also tedious

so either players leave because it's not fun or because it's imbalanced, you can never win with making an RTS with multiplayer focus

>>386936408
Middle level developers who did RTS died out leaving mostly indies and big companies and both of those prefer other more profiting gengres.
MOBAs grabbed most of crowd who sticked with RTS while not being hardcore fans of genre.
Most of new RTS games (like DoW3) fail to even be on level of previous game of series or it just look shallow and uninspired if its new IP.

And SC2 is still pretty damn big for and old game with reputation of a dead one even if you dont like it.

>>386936408
Nostalgiafags holding back entire genre

>>386936824
Now look where DOW3 is. SC2 copy paste, only shitier in every aspect and with heroes.

>>386936408

I would gladly build like the one on the right, if they didn't add super weapons in the game.

>>386936408
RTS is too stressful to play for years casually.
You're going to get rushed and lose in 5 minutes against better players.
You're going to be overwhelmed with too many things to do at the same time once your economy gets rolling.

And you know what? You're barely going to improve because you don't care about any of that shit as a casual player.
You just want to build your faggot base and make that one unit you think is cool.
Of course anydecentplayer isn't going to let you. Enjoy having "fun" at the bottom of the ladder, faggots.

>>386936762

Doesn't really matter whether OP image guy is bad at the game, the elitism in the RTS genre is ridiculous and pushes many people away.

>>386936762
Aside from protecting refineries walls aren't used at all. Also walls were used in RA2 against engineer rushing the MCV, although those can be countered with dogs.

>>386936726
it hasn't and won't happen because most Hardcore RTS nerds only really care about one thing.
beating their opponent as quickly as possible.
so in order for a game like that to work it would have to be Singleplayer only otherwise everyone would just google the current meta and copy paste it every time with the goal of trying to win every match as quickly as possible.
but if you were to make a singleplayer RTS type game you would get collectively shit on by the entirety of the internet that still interested in RTS games

>>386936826
>are there any RTSs that actually do reward you for having an organised base?

All Age of Empires games. (making walls from your buildings, especially to protect your workers but also to serve as chokepoints against attacks)
All Warcraft (AoE got theirs from here) and Starcraft (they provide you with map chokepoints, but building stuff in them is up to you, likewise with tech hiding and stuff) games.
Red Alert 3 (walls out of the ass because it's the only reliable way to stop terror drones from fucking you up, just to name one of many trheats).

... to mention some basic examples.

The rest of C&C is special for being the only popular RTS where you can do whatever and not give a fuck aside from the refinery creep.

File: 859128826423c7cce89cbc1bf82f5389.jpg (641KB, 1920x2725px) Image search: [Google]

641KB, 1920x2725px

>>386937003
Dawn of war 1,2 and company of heroes did it right speed wise and thus had many casual players.

>>386936972
This
There are only Anno games that let you build a city before they force conflict on you.
That 1vs1 button is so heavy that even I stop playing the game a like for some time.

>>386936408
Because RTS is less about strategy and more about apm.
>>386936465
Also this, metas ruined everything, the fact that most games have an optimal way of doing something that's leagues better than the others simply doesn't give any space for anything else.

>>386937114
Anno conflict is background noise at best and annoyance at worst. It's pretty clear that the game is about managing space (endgame) and/or production chains, so at the very most I would call it a tycoon, with city building and RTS elements.

>>386936826
Battle Realms kind of does.
Your unit production is entirely tied to your peasant production, who automatically get produced outside Peasant Huts. In order to get actual fighting units, you had to send Peasants to training structures, and often more than one in sequence, so keeping things organized and together was important to maintain quick unit production, with as little wasted pathing time as possible.
Beyond this, you needed a Peasant Hut near your rice and water supply, it was unwise to super-cluster your buildings, since fire attacks existed, and it was similarly important to maintain easy access to all of your buildings (Even ones no unit ever directly interacts with) so they can be extinguished if set on fire, and every race had a method of doing so, though some were better at it than others.

Now, with that said, there wasn't ever really any incentive to have things actually look pretty, just some basic soft rules about building construction in general.

>>386936972
This

All this noob bashing is killing off the RTS genre. Also the reason why most RTS mmos die off, because all the pros killed off the noobs.

File: 1412027397808.gif (11KB, 639x766px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 639x766px

>>386936972

>You just want to build your faggot base and make that one unit you think is cool.

>tfw this is me

File: 1490036377396.gif (407KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

407KB, 250x250px

>>386936408
>that pic
Starcraft autists ruined RTS with their esport elitism

>>386936950
I know. It hurts to see something that at least tried to be innovative just get sucked down the drain.

>GLA faction will never be in another game

>>386937273
It's funny because the players are mostly horrible at the games.
But when developers go in and say, "Look, you're too bad to play this, we'll dumb it down for you.", most of the playerbase shrieks in terror as to what they're doing to their beloved game.

Face it, you're all a bunch of shitters who have no business "playing" these games.

>>386936808
>>386936808
>>386936808

HELLO?

>>386937464
Yes, and the games are honestly more fun when a bunch of shitters get together and play.

File: mauryan-structures.jpg (780KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

780KB, 1920x1080px

0 AD is looking promising

>>386937486
Grey Goo

>>386936762

>Red Alert 3 is the only C&C game where walls serve an actual purpose throughout the game.

Don't forget tiberian sun.

You'd better fucking wall up your construction yard nigger or people will drill next to your pussy and unload engineers all over your face.

>>386937508
Anything is fun with friends, autismo.
I could play the single most dull and horrible game in existence and I'd still have fun if I were to do it with my bros or friends.

>>386937486
Knights and Merchants, though the army pathing is beyond horrid.
Warlords series.
Tzar.

>>386936408
Who gives a shit about popularity among normalfags? I'm currently having a blast replaying Total Annihilation, the soundtrack is absolutely masterful.
Also checked out Mental Omega. Holy shit it's an amazing mod.

File: steam peak players 12th of August.png (131KB, 529x913px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 529x913px

>>386936408
Just play Warhammer like everyone and their dog is doing right now. Traditional RTS games are dead.

>>386937523
More than 10 years of development, still in alpha. I let it go.

File: fug.jpg (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>386936408
fuck you i will build my walls

>>386937523
best game

>>386936972
If RTS games want to live again, they need to do something extreme like time gate base and unit queues and make unit AI vastly more intelligent with their pathing, because APM, micro and meta build orders has completely killed the genre at this point.

The average player wants to be microing a handful of units in a deathball with a bit of flanking thrown in and some simple base building and unit choices without the economic APM pressure and mandatory meta knowledge, which is why RTT and MOBAs are so popular now.

The few RTS devs remaining will never understand though.

>>386937336
Just play Tropico then

>>386936826
AoE to an extent, villagers and military have to be created from, move, and gather around what you build. There's also a high ground bonus, so buildings on top of a hill will take less damage when those below take more.

In RA2 Yuri's Revenge, if I remember right some layouts are more optimal if you need to use the force shield (and/or Iron Curtain) on your buildings.

>>386938102
Someone has to try it eventually.

>>386938156

I think you mean factorio

File: 1499125825884.jpg (105KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 720x960px

Expansion into different subgenres showed most people playing RTS games that they didn't actually like RTS games.

>>386938228
>screen is conveyor belts and factories
It's far more complicated but for sure its not AESTHETICS

>>386936408
I lost interest of RTS after playing SC2 for a bit. It devolves into a stale meta-game and being an APM whore. The community is oddly filled with pricks too

>>386936826
Supreme Commander does, power generators actually link up to nearby structures and provide discounts and increase efficiency, resource storage built around resource production triples the output, some buildings are so power hungry its not even viable to make them without being in a pretty power grid farm. Also the existence of shield domes encourages you to keep everything relatively neat and nearby to easily cover it

>>386938251
THIS
No micro people play sims and grand strategy games
All micro guys play DOTA and alike
Moshpitters play total wars
Arm chair generals with no time tables play RTT like Men of War

>>386937234
>Also this, metas ruined everything, the fact that most games have an optimal way of doing something that's leagues better than the others simply doesn't give any space for anything else.

that means they're poorly balanced.

Rate

>Make maps like 10 times bigger
>Slow everything down 50%
>More resources but in less locations and a slower collection rate
>Add in more technology branching tech trees
>Make different "teams" "nations" "races" actually play widely different instead of generic +1 scout attack
>Units are weaker but there's a lot of them
>Add in unit formations and make formation+tactics/Flanking etc>>>Gookclick
>Add in advanced economy and possibility of trading with other players for resources

>>386938541
theres nothing to rate all of that has been done since like 1994

the people talking about making the game more accessible via making macro easier and making it more about microing units fail to realise that this is exactly what made sc2 fail

>>386938541
Where then?

Oh that's right in 20 different games over a decade

>>386938541

Wildly different factions are hard to balance. Besides that, you roughly described Cossacks.

>>386936408
Starcraft remastered if you wanna play competetive.
Ra2 is fun to play, but I honestly found everything to be bad compared to broodwar.

>>386938629
>what made sc2 fail
Yet SC2 is still the most popular RTS around.
And you forgot DOA custom map scene, shitty plot in campaigns and loss of unique artstyle.

>>386938435
even in the most well balanced games a meta will develop
in 80 percent of games the meta is just a fancy word for "what the Pros like to do" and everyone will always copy the pros playstyle because they want to be a pro and have their 5 minutes of fame

>>386938541
you just described age of empires 2 almost, anon.

>>386938325
It's realy AESTHETICS if you want to be. It's just alot of people choose to go for productivity.

>>386938629
>making macro easier and making it more about microing units

Does anyone actually want that?
Doesn't virtually everyone want gookclick to make like a tree and grow and for both macro and micro to require less APM across the board?

>>386938102
I think a game like Warcr4ft has potential to revive the genre.

A slower-paced RTS macro-wise and a huge focus on micro gameplay, but not micro gameplay that happens so quickly you're dead in seconds.
W3 gave new players a free chance to "feel good" just by giving them a hero to micro within the first few minutes of gameplay.

>>386936950
>SC2 copy paste

How much crack have you smoked since you last played SC2?

File: Flame_Tank_1995.jpg (51KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x400px

>>386936408

Consoles
EA
Blizzard

This ise highly to said around it. This am a several problems sure, prevent the on ended it better than most stuff outward this today

>>386936465
This, I never cared for multiplayer in strategy games and around the time CIV 5 came out the ai was so retarded you could play on the hardest difficulty and it would be a cakewalk.

>>386938805

its only the most popular because its the sucessor to the most popular rts of all time.

also the plot for sc1 and bw sucks too, people were just too young to realise it.

>>386936826
Dungeon Keeper gives bonuses for geometrically regular room shapes.

Because they get boring after a few matches and there is nothing you can do to reinvent the genre.

>>386936754
>No Supreme Commander
>No Total Annihilation
>No Homeworld
The problem is you have shit taste.

>>386938870

see

>>386938102
>>386938943

>>386939004
Who the fuck cares about plot in an rts game.
Other than that I agree with you.

How about this: make a fucking good singleplayer campaign with lots of replayability? Many RTS purists like to shit on TW games, but that's one thing CA has truly mastered with Warhammer: every faction plays differently and every campaign feels unique, the game has ridiculous amounts of SP replayability even without mods.

>>386938541
sounds awful

>>386939054
>RA2
>shit
I forgot this was /v/eddit.

>>386938541
sounds a bit like supreme commander

File: Ork Fightiness Mechanic In Total Warhammer.png (1MB, 1482x1266px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1482x1266px

>>386938541

we just need to play more meatgrinder games, games where you can produce so many units so fast and map distances are so large that every battle becomes a grinding war of attrition interspersed by brief nuclear exchanges

>>386939135

>Who the fuck cares about plot in an rts game.

the motherfucker I was replying to? are you blind?

>>386938541
>Make maps like 10 times bigger
>Slow everything down 50%
>More resources but in less locations and a slower collection rate
This is a boring fucking formula, one that was attempted in "Sins of a Solar Empire" and it was bleeding boring to play, took almost 1 hour for a game to pick up in speed - until then it was just small skirmishes and waiting for timers.
>Units are weaker but there's a lot of them
Yes, more artificial inflation of the gametime, go play TBS instead.

SC2 co-op is really fun.

>>386939174
Release RA2 today and you'd have people complain the exact same way they are now.
Your nostalgia blinds you.

>>386939247
Stop having fun.

File: Glad you could make it, Uther.webm (3MB, 600x480px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 600x480px

No good campaigns

And also none of them feel particularly good to control anymore. Many of them have very floaty movements as a response to doing anything with your mouse.

Dragging your mouse around the map to look at things becomes a chore in most modern RTS whereas it felt very smooth and responsive in past RTS games.

>>386936408
FUKCING WC3 remastered when?????

>>386939226
apparently

>>386939247
I whole-heartedly agree, just wish you could have the same commander at times - having to "compete" with friends is annoying.
Shame most of the commanders are locked behind a pay-wall.

>>386938541
No, the way things are now you'd have to make the games more "strategy" driven than what types of units to spam.

File: This Looks Hard.jpg (77KB, 827x528px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 827x528px

>>386936950
>tfw you work for relic

If the problem is intense macro(players don't know what to build in what order) and mirco(how to manage their units correctly), how do it dumb it down for the masses yet still entertaining for the elites?

Somehow League of Legends is simple to play, but hard to master to the point where it's an e-sport. How we imply this to RTS games?

File: FUN.png (588KB, 824x2000px) Image search: [Google]

588KB, 824x2000px

>>386939247

>>386938767
They don't have to be that balanced, that's what made Warcraft 3 so good

fun campaign
different races that play differently
Good voice acting
easy to mod and with lots of custom games

Rather then everyone can build the same unit but one teams horse unit does .5 more damage

File: 1479585966518.jpg (32KB, 436x535px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 436x535px

Because gaming in general is much more accessible to normies,resulting in a much bigger influx of dumb people in the gaming industry

These people demand something easy to play such as FPS etc.

Here's your answer

>>386939463

its not actually hard to master, the hard part is team sync. making a game into a team game automaticaly makes it significantly deeper at a low cost, and you can afford to simplify many other basic mechanics because of the "depth" in the teamplay.

Warcraft 3 killed the genre.

Honestly I think a good AAA, more strategic version of something like Mountain Blade: Warband or Orcs Must Die could save the genre. A strategy game where you're a commander or whatever instead of just a disembodied hand, but with all the base building and troop organising of a traditional RTS. It's the only kind of shit that would make RTS popular again.

>>386936464
this makes no sense, PC is stronger now than it was when RTS died.

>>386939290
>No good campaigns
100 TIMES THIS
Word cannot express how much a good Single Player campaign is detrimental to the success of a RTS
Shitty, generic campaigns won't do. All successful RTSs in history had had a solid SP component

>>386937094
oh my
This picture pleases slaanesh

>>386936408
I think RTS slouched too much into MOBA/esports territory, and alienated people who actually liked RTS games. People who enjoy MOBAs will just keep playing those games rather than switch over. DOW3 is a big example of this.

File: 1502373154958.jpg (60KB, 549x555px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 549x555px

>>386936950
>>386939443

>DoW 1 formula is successful
>DoW 2 is streamlined CoH, still pretty good
>DoW 3 happened

What the fuck senpai. Did sega cut Relic's budget or something?

>>386939463
>Let's turn RTS into MOBA's
No.

>>386939338
Eh, I just think it's neat that you can play a few commanders for free. Makes it easy to get friends to try it from time to time.

>>386936726
Saying this I'd fucking love a sim-city/actually decent Spore-like version of this where the world map's like CIV but it's not turn based and actual micro is involved

>>386938541
it's called Warrior Kings and no one played it

File: Playing Long War.png (758KB, 2000x2208px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 2000x2208px

>>386939463

take direct control of units out of the players hands, the player plays the roll of a general commanding a fortress, balancing a fast expansion with a good economy and ordering units to capture and hold points around the map which add points towards a cap that is the main objective of the game.

three ways to win, reach the point cap or destroy all of your opponents structures and cap capable units.

everything you do takes time, units do not respond instantaneously to new commands but have an intelligent enough AI that they tend to understand target priority.

grant bonuses to cover to make it an important and valuable commodity, design different grades of cover and include bonuses for flanking targets in cover.

friendly fire is permanently on, and is a danger with any AOE weapons.

only infantry equivalents can cap points, this combined with a large map and expensive base building slows down the game to the point where comebacks are possible.

do not build a server in korea

>>386939861

Think about it. We can customize our commander, get certain bonuses to encourage roles like support or tank.

>>386939785
I think they were just desperate to attract a new audience outside of CoH and DoW. This fuck up cost them the DoW crowd, we might never see a 4th game or even an expansion.

Creative Assembly managed to attract many new souls thanks to the WFB.

>>386940021

See, I would love to play something like that. Just tell your units where to go and they do the fighting for you.

>>386937523
That historically authentic housing really makes me feel all kinds of warm and fuzzy inside

>>386939861
>i dont want fucking Chads ruining my genre
>also why genre only literal nolife neckbeards care about is dying

>>386940075
You think customization is what the casual masses want?
They don't want base building, they don't want micromanagement of more than 2 units max - these are not people you should be catering to if you want to bring RTS back.
Also let's talk about what that even means, RTS has always been niche.

>>386940212
What is even your point?
Bastardize the genre so much you can barely call it RTS - but it's okay because now people are playing the (not)RTS-genre?
Retarded.

MOWAS is one of the only games to get around the balancing issue. Your expensive King Tiger 2 is invulnerable to most things, but if you don't support it with infantry it's going to get AT grenaded by a dude in a bush the other player snuck up on you.

Or hit with a flamethrower. Or tracked by artillery.

RTS games get exponentially better the less abstract their combat is. If it's just damage vs defense stats it misses all kinds of tactical opportunities.

File: capa2.jpg (1MB, 4000x2250px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 4000x2250px

>>386939290
>>386939650

I hate to say this but RTS is a past time due to video games becoming a main stream market, thus developers see the RTS as a high risk low profit margin due to the fact that the majority of games sold today are of a different genre.

Just face it, there are no mainstream RTS games... they are all niche groups, even if they are fairly profitable niche groups due to their size alone, the thing is they are still niche because when compared to mains stream games, it's a much smaller number.

More people bought mortal kombat x than star craft 2.

>>386936465
This, also OPs picture >>386936408
is the perfect reason why the vast majority of gamers hate elitists. Who gives a fuck how I spend my money and setup my base? If I loose I loose.

>>386937026
Using structures as a makeshift barricade is exactly the opposite of what he was looking for.

>>386939290

>unit takes 10 minutes to die from a gorrilion turrents

God WC3 is fucking awful.

>>386940163
Majesty is kinda like that. Your "units" are basically roving heroes/murderhobos that gather in your tavern and will only do shit for you if you put up bounties for it. I only played the second game, but it was a really charming concept.

>>386940286

There plenty of RTS games for the hardcore elites. Just offer something for the casual players so the genre won't die.

>>386939785
all I wanted was CoH2 with a warhammer skin. Some base building, victory points, maybe some acid rain weather mechanic idk. Instead we got one moba gamemode and grinding out unlocks that put you at a disadvantage almost from the word go.

>>386940471

It really is shit compared to Starcraft in general.

Anyone played Steel Division Normandy 44?

>>386936465
Meta is literally the layer of the game where strategy actually happens.

>>386940565
Fuck off with that, what does it even mean?
There's plenty of room for casuals to play RTS. The single-player experience is not very taxing and quite easy to overcome - most games even have a difficulty setting.
So what the hell do you actually want? Casual e-sports? retarded and an oxymoron.

File: FAlogo.jpg (124KB, 900x400px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 900x400px

>>386938541
>Add in unit formations
Everything except that.

File: dubs.jpg (26KB, 455x625px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 455x625px

>>386938963

>>386940390
hoi4 and aoe2 are topping the steam charts. people would buy a good RTS if one was made

>>386940471
>one of the most powerful units in the game doesn't instantly die to 12-18 (exact number is difficult to determine) shit-tier turrets that have the wrong attack type, instead takes a whopping 14 seconds

I see no problem here

I'm really bad at RTS. But I never really liked the genre anyway. What's so exciting or fun about "build units, then send them to attack"? I just don't see the appeal of getting resources, waiting for your troops to pop up, then sending them this way or that to defeat the AI. And pretty much every single time I ever fought someone online it was just the games equivalent of "zerg rush" which is boring to play with and against.

I just do not see the fun in these games. I'm not trying to shit on others that do, I just want an explanation.

What is the Fantasy Strike of RTS?
Btw fantasy strike is having a free trial on pc right now, try it!

>>386940686

The trend and where the money is at now is trying to make it simple enough to be play on a phone or tablet.

>>386940565
>There plenty of RTS games for the hardcore elites
no there aren't, there's starcraft and that's about it

Most of people play RTS offline.

>>386939785
Relic haven't made a game since THQ imploded

boring to watch and not as hype as mobas

>>386940794
Fun is subjective.
You're welcome.

>>386940827
What trennd? Best selling games of 2017:
>Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
>NBA 2K17
>Grand Theft Auto V
>Resident Evil 7: Biohazard
>Mass Effect: Andromeda
>Horizon Zero Dawn
>The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the wild
>For Honor
>Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands

None can be played on a phone

Contrary to popular belief Starcraft 2 is pretty fucking alive. There are about 40-50k people online at all times and it usually only takes a few seconds to find a game.

>>386940794
>whats fun about commanding an army
really makes you ponder

>>386938963
this
/thread

>>386940963
I know that, but I still don't get it. In an FPS you're moving around, doing stuff, playing the character. TPS same thing. Racing games you're driving, trying to beat the clock, go faster, find the best route. In a sports game (fictional sport or reality) you're playing the game with their rules, playing in a competitive sports setting. Etc.

But RTS (and to some extent Grand Strategy) is just moving a mouse around a screen clicking on some things, waiting for bars to fill up so you can click other things, so that some things pop up in game, that you click on to click on something else so you watch those units shuffle across a map to slowly attack. Like.. what's the point? I just don't get it. I feel like you could have as much fun just clicking the mouse around in MSPaint making new colors pop up.

>>386941109
Ah an immersion fag. No, RTS is not for you.

>>386941109
Maybe if you're playing against a potato.

>>386936465
Meta is how people play the game, to have no meta is to have no players

>>386936408
Because most of them aren't about strategy but about clicking fast.

>>386941247
>RTS-elitists actually believe that

>>386936726
There's a turn based strategy called Liberation Day where you do exactly that

>>386936408
Everyone shits on base designs with walls until some fag fills a troop transport with engineers and jacks your shit.

File: b1c6187053e9b128036f0a55749554807ef0dbdf_hq[1].jpg (144KB, 1024x747px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 1024x747px

>>386938541
rate

>company of heroes pace (slow, tactical, not very many units but they're pretty complex each one)
>setting is blame!-style megastructure, so you can justify any sort of 3d map layout
>map is fully 3d, with rooms laying on top of other rooms, and being physically connected (like a FPS game, not like the over/underworld in heroes 3), and units being able to cross these as able
>the scroll wheel lets you visually bisect the terrain, making everything above the displayed height level invisible
>you've got units with great agility, units that can walk on walls, buildings that can be built on walls and ceilings, flying units, weapons that penetrate walls so you can ambush people from below
>the maps have power plants/control centres that can activate/deactivate map elements when captured, like opening doors, manning elevators, controlling lighting, lowering bridges, taking command over cameras and sentry guns, etc
>campaign is just one continuous journey through these sorts of maps using a mobile command center plus all the RPG mechanics that's standard

>>386941307
>/v/ poster scared and confused when he loses video game
>"must be the game's fault"
>news at eleven

File: 1474219153198.jpg (79KB, 740x720px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 740x720px

>>386941109

Don't like thinking your moves ahead of time? There a reason why it's called Strategy.

>>386940762
Hearts of Iron isn't a real time strategy and most people playing AoE2 HD are doing it for nostalgia.

File: Ranged Night Hunter.webm (3MB, 889x500px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 889x500px

>>386941109
I don't understand, I guess I made the mistake of taking you seriously.
What you're describing can be said about any videogame, take webm related for instance, I'm just dragging my mouse, clicking some buttons and stuff happens on the screen.
No different from the RTS-experience you're describing.
>What's the point
Playing a videogame and having fun.
this board is for +18 y/o's, get out.

>>386939626
>Warcraft 3 killed the genre.
and Dawn of War along with Company of Heroes revied the genre. But saddly for not so long.

>>386936754
Those games are over a decade old, son.

>>386941353
Me want.

>>386941307
literally every single game where you're playing to achieve a goal instead of fuck around has a metagame
single player Civilization has a metagame
war in real life has a metagame
a good game has a varied, multi-faceted metagame while a bad game has a static, narrow metagame
people who can't accept that some tactics are better than others and adapt accordingly are manchildren who will never succeed in the real world let alone video games

>>386941389
>Hearts of Iron isn't a real time strategy
>AoE2 doesn't count because it's an old game

>>386941404
What game is it though? You can't put a interesting webm and not give sauce

File: Night Hunter - Ragequit.webm (3MB, 889x500px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 889x500px

>>386941531
Dying Light.
The game mode is "Be the Zombie".

>>386941370
Do you really need to think that far ahead? One to three moves ahead at the most? I'd think most people would have back up plans already in place too. "If X happens, it's okay because I already Y'd." Which makes thinking ahead even less critical.

>>386941404
You could say that about most games, but that's just boiling something down to it's bare minimum. When you really dig into a game, FPS, racer, whatever, you can find the details, the differences. But every single video I've seen for an RTS or watched a friend play or tried to play myself, it is literally always the same. Click on resources, click on menus to build units or your base, then units to attack and win, MAYBE play some defense. All in all, it's literally just staring at a screen click on some things. There's no engagement, there is barely any playing of the game.

>>386938102
Or, you know, decent single player campaigns.

>>386940471
He's one of the highest HP characters in the game by virtue of being level 10, being a story character and also being a paladin which is a tanking hero

>>386938541
>Make different "teams" "nations" "races" actually play widely different instead of generic +1 scout attack
>Implying +1 scout attack doesn't break the game in the hands of a skilled general

File: queen-of-blades-costume.jpg (55KB, 640x960px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 640x960px

>>386936408
>Why RTS games not popular today? I seen too many good RTS games die from a lack of player base.

Weak SP. That's it.

If people don't fall in love with your world and factions they will not care.
Part of the reason why Warcraft and Starcraft became popular is because of this simple fact.
It's the same with Command & Conquer / Red Alert.

>>386941617
Get out kid.

>>386941617
>there is barely any playing of the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q

>>386941496
The second point is stupid but hoi really isnt an rts. Its a grand strategy, totally different genre

>>386941679
every unit in WC3 is tanky as fuck, don't pretend otherwise

>>386941307
>Someone devises a strategy that absolutely destroys everyone
>Someone else works out a counter to that strategy that completely shuts it down
>Someone figures out how to beat both the previous two builds, but doing so leaves them open to a fourth build that kicks their shit in
This is what a healthy meta looks like. If the game's meta is "spam tanks and hope you have more" (sorry RA2) then it's not a very deep or well-balanced game. In either case, metas will exist and there's nothing you can do to prevent them.

>>386941480

When people here bitch about "muh meta", they are really just bitching about people expecting them to play the game properly and not mindlessly fuck around. I don't understand why this mentality is so prevelent when it comes to RTS and something like DotA, yet they are the same people who will autisticly screen when they see somebody play Street Fighter or DOOM "improperly", aka NOT DOING THE FUCKING META GAME.

There are efficient and unefficient ways to play any game, it is what it is.

>>386941760
>What is archer
>What is ghoul
>What is Wisp
>What is..

>>386941756
If you couldn't pause in HoI4 it'd be an RTS Paradox Grand Strategy games are pretty close to RTS, especially hearts of iron

>>386939785
SEGA should have disbanded or sold Relic immediately after seeing internal demos.

>>386941794
It's so weird that people bitch about STRATEGIES in a real-time strategy

>>386941794
no I don't think they're the same people, the people who whine about meta are people who don't want to be challenged and play braindead single player games on easy

>>386936754
>Dawn of War
>series
pick one

>>386938102
deathball metas destroy games so please fuck off with your horrible game ideas

>>386938541
Sound like Forged Alliance Forever

>>386941901

So you are saying a large portion of /v/ is braindead manchildren?

File: Somua_S_35_(musée_des_blindés_de_Saumur).jpg (1MB, 2048x1536px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2048x1536px

>>386939290
>>386939650
recently played Earth 2150, and I was blasted away by campaign design
>access to HQ map, where you can retreat surviving units for later missions, or send reinforcements from
>you can produce units in HQ, so building factories on site is optional and matter of production speed vs saving dosh calculation
>permanent technologies/upgrades, once something is researched you never have to research it again
>remaining resoures can be also transported back to HQ.
>If you're quick enough in destroying enemy you can steal his resources and use them to give yourself headstart for further missions. If you insist on turtling and waiting until enemy runs out of resources, you'll be scrapping by yourself for most of campaign.
>ability to upgrade older units to newest version
>you can produce units, as well as research technologies in HQ, between missions
>hidden missions that award you with unique units
>often you can continue campaign even if you fail missions. Unless missions goals are essenitial for main objective of campaign, your only punishment is losing resources in it, and occasionally access to some (hidden) units and technologies

any more RTS games with some actual big picture planning in them?

>>386941976
>winter assault
>dark crusade
>soulstorm

>>386942026
does that come as a surprise?

>>386941617
>There's no engagement, there is barely any playing of the game.

Because moving your mouse and clicking where you want your troops to attack is different to you moving your mouse and shooting the thing you want to kill in an FPS?

You're sure as hell engaging in both circumstances.

Most genres have a standard style of play with some unique features for the game itself.

>>386938816
a constantly developing metagame is an extremely important thing for making a game last longer than a year. scbw had a changing metagame for 15 years and thats the primary reason its been such an interesting game for so long.

>>386941756
The second point isn't stupid. People always bring up that older games have dedicated hardcore playerbases so there must be a market for RTS but whenever a new one comes out you know what people do? They keep playing the game they already we're playing.

>That's because all the new games are shitty and casual

And if they made 1:1 remakes then why would you stop playing what you're already playing?

>>386942119
>scbw had a changing metagame for 15 years

True but much of this was possible because of the map makers. They made map changes to indirectly affect game balance.

>>386939650
>Word cannot express how much a good Single Player campaign is detrimental to the success of a RTS

Might have more to do with you than with the words desu, this sentence says the opposite of what you are trying to say. Detrimental means that it causes harm. You are saying here that a good single player campaign makes an RTS less likely to succeed.

File: 1501216107164.jpg (142KB, 736x716px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 736x716px

>>386941476
What about these factions then?
>religious cyborgs following a moses figure to the promised land (for like, hundreds of years)
>rowdy bandit tribes who like speed, firepower and samurai swords, united by an ambitious warlord
>declining aristocratic empire that was built around an ancient gene printer, so literally all forms of technology they use is biological in nature, a nobleman general is struggling to save his civilization from the existential threat that the rulers are to blind to see

>the second are fighting against the third and when the first happen to pass straight through their territory some shit goes down

>>386941760
Well I won't because your unit cap is significantly lower and I like that style of play. If I lost a couple of rocket angels in Red Alert 3 I wouldn't be too concerned but in Warcraft 3 I'd be doing all I could to keep my crypt fiends dying.

>>386936408
Its because theyre 'hard'

>>386941734
>>386941734
>>386941734
this

>>386942161
how about they make new RTS games that are a good? How about they innovate on the genre? Crazy idea I know

>>386941734
Is that really it?

Part of the reason why [OLD GAME] became popular was the story.
Popular games nowadays lack that, and do fine.

Mobas, hero shooters, warframe, world of tanks, card games, fighting games.

I'll admit most are F2P and that is, perhaps, a difficult model to adapt to RTS. Locked out (mechanical) content within a faction could make the player be a very unbalanced disadvantage. How would you even adapt microtransactions without breaking the game? Looking at Dota 2:
>hats (think of the possibilities, custom gear items for every unit in every faction. it would decrease clarity, though)
>terrains (cosmetics)
>structures (cosmetics)
>ui/hud
>in-game voice overs
>limited access to replays

The game would have to be built around it, though. Then again mobas and hero shooters and fighting games place new characters behind paywalls and everyone is find with that

>>386936408
Red Alert3 was really good competitive-wise.
Tried to play it online too late, but still was really fun.

>>386942252
They tried, but elitists don't let them.

>>386938030
TS still remains the comfiest C&C game.

>>386941823
>2/3 are gatherers

You really showed him

File: 1499543507145.gif (4MB, 600x444px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 600x444px

>>386942029
>Earth 2150
My man

Damn campaign in Escape from the Blue Planet and LS expansion is fucking hard

>>386941838
While it would definitely be a "real time strategy" game it would still play differently enough from all other classical rts (supcom c&c sc etc) to warrant another name, i feel. Im just arguing semantics here, i like all of those games.

>>386942293
That's why Company of Heroes did poorly, right?
That's why everyone hates Supreme Commander?

>>386942317
>Ghoul
>Gatherer
Ebin, simply ebin.

>>386942293
They tried and failed. It has nothing to do with elitism, nobody has really succeeded on improving the standard C&C/Starcraft model RTS in over a decade

>>386942317
>ghoul is a dedicated gatherer
No

File: 1502321275693.jpg (56KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 720x720px

>>386942394

>>386936726
Earth 2150 is literally that game.

>>386942394
>>386942414
Gatherers can attack in most RTS, ghouls are no exception.

>>386942187
im not sure what the point of this statement is. the map makers are independent and maps have been important to bw balance since it came out

>>386937664
>Knights and Merchants
Thats my shit, i love building comfy cities in it. But i cant find any decent map to do it. Campain is pain in the ass with thr battle missions and it takes ages to unlock every building. Do you know any map that focus on economy. I dont want to fight, just want to build.

>>386942498
try sim city

>>386936465
Jesus fucking Christ, /v/ is full of scrubs

Fighting Games:
>waah, this is too hard for me, it's no fun, fucking autists who spent 1000s of hours learning the game, I just picked it up yesterday, I should be able to compete with them.
>I shouldn't have to press XBLRBAXYYXLR just to throw a punch, gosh, it's artificial difficulty, fighting games are for scrubs
>this genre is dead, I hate competition

RTS:
>fucking Meta elitists ruined everything
>how dare they learn the optimal builds to quickly build an army and manage their economy, I just wanna play this war game and pretend it's Sim City
>fucking tankspammers rushing my base, no fun allowed
>I hate competition, this genre is dead

Shooters:
>hurr, center screen to male something dead
>fucking faggots memorizing the map and killing me, it's not fair
>even a fucking casual could do this
>I hate competition, this genre is dead

MOBA:
>assfaggots pieces of shit, if I wanted to play an RTS, I'd do that, what's the point if you only control ONE character
>this game takes NO skill, literally just build your super and press R to win, fucking braindead
>I could be a top player too and make millions, but I don't want to cause this genre sucks, and eSports are gay
>I hate competition, this genre is dead

No wonder this board has such a boner for Nintendo and Senran Kagura shit. You people suck dick at vidya.

>>386942498
Anno 1404 ?

>>386942493
>Implying a Ghoul's role is not one of military
It doubling as a wood gatherer is just part of its flexible design, but with 330 hp and heavy armor it is clearly designed for fighting.

>>386942574
Play fantasy strike

>>386942574
>/v/ complains MOBAs are way too casual compared to RTS games then when RTS comes up all /v/ wants to do is hide in their base and build walls and power plants

>>386936826
Age of empires:
No, not really. Towers is generally awful units, beyond having a lot of HP. Heck, their main use, if you could build them faster, is as a meatshield for your archers.
Walls only exist to stop rushing, which doesn't matter, because they cost too much to even use properly.

So generally, you don't build bases in RTS games. The games are simply to lopsided focused on attacking.
Heck, if you added walls to something like Starcraft, all they would be used for, would be to block vision/entry to ramps, and nothing more.

>>386942680
Walls exist in Starcraft, friend, and they often enable strategies too dangerous to play without them.

>>386942493
If a unit attacks another unit by itself without your direction it is unlikely to be a gatherer.

In most RTS games if a gatherer is attacked they will either remain still, continue their current order or run a few meters away from harm.

>>386942592
>330 hp
>units do ~15 hp damage
>the most basic unit in WC3 takes 22 hits to kill
kiting 5 units around each other with pea shooters truly is the height of fast-paced strategic gameplay

I don't have the kind of multitasking to care about that shit. RTT is way more fun anyways.

File: 1366556920712.jpg (943KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

943KB, 1280x1024px

>>386942680

>>386942574
That was an insanely juvenile post. Thanks for making this board a little worse.

>>386942680
>The games are simply to lopsided focused on attacking.
you don't win by defending

>>386942761
Just because units die slowly in that game, does not mean it's not fast-paced. I very highly suggest you find some FPVODs of a good player.

File: conan.jpg (28KB, 560x241px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 560x241px

>>386942574
If there is no room for new players to learn then new players will not come and the genre dies.

Competitive online games need a sweet spot of new players being able to enjoy themselves and old players being able to show off, otherwise theres no place for anyone to start and no goal for anyone to strive for.

>>386942761
theres nothing about rts games that implies fast paced gameplay. wc3 in particular has never been lauded for that. youre retarded.

>>386942870
slow is boring
go play C&C Generals and compare it to this

>>386942829
It only made you upset cause you know it's true, git gud faggot

File: suddenstrike.jpg (274KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

274KB, 1280x720px

anyone played Sudden Strike 4 yet?

>>386936826
Stronghold does.
The worst levels in Stronghold were the ones where you had to attack someone.

>>386942828
That would be very annoying to break through

I bet the guy went AFK after finishing it

>>386942732
Makeshift barricades and turrets exist in Starcraft. Not walls.
To even block off the ramp, you also need to have a way to get the units around the ramp, either by flying or transport.

>>386942943
You have no idea what you're talking about. Try looking at Terran or Protoss openings versus Zerg.

>>386936465
This.

>>386942761
>Anyone implying Wc3 is fast-paced
Ignoring that, the hp pool of units just means you have more time to react and divert your attention to other things inbetween microing your units.

Also
>the most basic unit in WC3 takes 22 hits to kill
22 hits is quickly reached when you have multiple units attacking the same target. Especially if you use the correct damage-type vs the armor-type.

>>386942913
And the saga continues

File: ed0e8bef2878a3ecd28ee66f9c50c9b7.png (740KB, 1600x1067px) Image search: [Google]

740KB, 1600x1067px

>>386942258
>Part of the reason why [OLD GAME] became popular was the story.
>Popular games nowadays lack that, and do fine.

The MP games that do well focus on something completely different from what say RTS games do.

If people don't care about the factions they control and the factions are bland, why would they play it?
Asking the more casual crowd to jump into a hardcore MP only RTS with generic factions is delusional.

A MOBA is very different since they focus a lot on likeable and iconic heroes along with RPG elements. Also they are team games and despite having tons of depth are easier to get into (after all, you just control a single hero, kill NPCs, level up, get better gear, etc).
Also as you said, F2P is also a huge reason why.

Devs and publishers seriously underestimate how much a solid SP for well designed factions affect how popular an RTS will be.

That said, making it slightly more like Warcraft 3 and having the player also control a hero character (with a slightly reduced focus on basebuilding and unit control) would probably also help in this day and age.

>>386942938
2-4 Castles out of range
Set point a mass spawn petard attack
Win

>>386942867
Translation:
>wah, I'm a numale scrub who hates hard work and competition, and feel entitled to win even though I can't be bothered to practice.

Grow a pair manlet. Competition is the masculine thing a man could do.

>>386943007
99% of people are never going to be any good at any competitive activity, and since you're posting here that includes you, so discussing a game's competitive merits has no purpose. All that matters is how fun something is.

RTS wouldn't be so bad if they improve the AI. It seem like we been fighting the same retarded AI for the last 20 years. The AIs still can't handle being rushed and need boost in the game to be even a challenge.

>>386943118
So while I would have no chance vs Jaedong or someone, I can tell I could beat you one-handed just by the bullshit you post.

>>386943007
>Grow a pair manlet. Competition is the masculine thing a man could do.

Pull out that speech when the game you developed flops and you scream in anguish about "how could this game i made flop???"

>>386943118
>If you can't be the best of the best don't bother
Bronze league was made for retards like you.

>>386943118
>99% of people are never going to be any good at any competitive activity
where exactly did you pull that statistic from? most people are at least good at one thing in their lives

>>386943225
>>386943118
Calm down

>>386943193
>nobody should compete because you might lose

>>386940742
You play FAF and don't use the unit formations? Have fun walking in a single file to a wall of enemy firepower. The formation shit was added a long time ago.

>>386943226
This is the mindset of a NEET. When you're a loser with no goals, purpose or drive, you assume that everyone else is as much of a failure at life as you.

>>386939650
Warzone 2100 had one of the best RTS campaigns, if not the best. Turns out it's not all you need.

>>386942029
Earth 2150 was also great

>>386936826

SupCom. Buildings have adjacency bonuses, and it's essential to be able to fit all of your buildings under your defense shields.

>>386940471
>turrents
Holy shit, these threads are real!

File: Comfy RTS.jpg (1MB, 3010x1544px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3010x1544px

>>386936826
War for the Overworld

Space is scarce, you need to build efficiently to get bonuses.

>>386943409
But Warzone 2100 is awesome and still have playerbase and community who develop it.

>>386943157
AI for such complex games will always be extremely easy to exploit. Even if the made the AI twice as complex (and making it unable to cheat), how long until ways to abuse it are found?

The only way I can see a good AI come up is by it being open source and evolving and improving constantly with the community.

>>386943302
How is making your game more accessible to newcomers a bad thing?

The mentality of
>only the most hardcore men are allowed to play and learning the game should be as long and painful as possible
is why many games flop. In fact this mentality is basically sealing your games doom right from the start.

I'm not even talking about myself here since I've played thousands of hours in mobas and fighting games, but trying to get newcomers into games like these is always a massive pain. But why should it be? No good reason for it.

>>386942916
What is this?

>>386936408
RTS games aren't fun, they're just stressful

>>386943483
>How is making your game more accessible to newcomers a bad thing?
And how do you achieve this?
By casualizing the game, correct. Now go play League.

>>386943483
Sorry, when did this become a discussion about that retards fighting game? This is an RTS thread. Anyway, barriers are there to weed out the weak. If your friends don't want to play a game because it's too hard to get into they don't have the competitive spirit required to enjoy it anyway.

>>386943458
How can NOD even compete?

>>386936826
Starcraft

>>386943541
>And how do you achieve this?
>By casualizing the game

Talk about being simple minded. I can tell you know nothing about game development and design.

>>386943581
Arty spam

>>386943461
Yeah, it is, but never break through and you don't hear it often. Guess it's not a bad thing after all, keeps the cancer away

>>386943608
Yes, let's hear it then, I'm sure you have the secrets to this conundrum.

>>386942829
There's nothing juvenile. It's just simplified posts from most of the users.

>>386943580
>barriers are there to weed out the weak

Ah yes, intentionally wishing your game to fail while puffing out your chest with juvenile bravado.

>>386943479

Bull fucking shit! If we can make a computer compete with one of the top chess players in the 90's, why can't we make a computer to compete against one of the top players in an RTS game? This shit been long overdue.

>>386943731
yeah we all know the gigantic barrier of entry stopped dota being a popular game right? Games die because they're shit games

>>386943769

>make amazing AI
>beats players constantly
>players complain that it's too hard

>>386943668
>Yes, let's hear it then, I'm sure you have the secrets to this conundrum.

Why should I write out several in-depth ideas ITT? Complete waste of time and I gain nothing from it. Maybe if you gave me 1000$ I might care, otherwise no.
I'm only here to kill a little time while I wait for my stock to boil down.

>>386943871
>I alone have the holy grail of game design, I'm just too lazy to type it out :^)

>>386943795
>yeah we all know the gigantic barrier of entry stopped dota being a popular game right?

You probably have very limited understanding of MOBAs, Dota 2 and why they're more accessible. Even though it has been described by myelf in this very thread already.
Really, it's painfully obvious that you understand nothing about game design.

RTS is garbage when it's you versus other players, i never thought i'd be saying that.

they need to make an RTS that revolves around comp stomps and co-op play.
i still play RTS, but i basically only comp stomp, i won't do anything else, my competitive RTS days are over.

>>386943871
Ah yes, clearly you're too good for us here - I'm sure we're all missing out on your endless wisdom and we're all the poorer because of it.
Pathetic.

>I'm only here to kill a little time while I wait for my stock to boil down.
Oh we're dealing with an adult doing adult things, most impressive anon, glad you could grace us with your presence.

>>386943919
he's too busy making a failure of a fighting game and shitposting on 4chan to share it with us

>>386943769
Chess is a simple game with small field and algorithms memorizing. Computers are perfect for this.

>>386943823

Sweety, that was setting AI difficulty is for.

>>386937578
You have poor reading comprehension. He called himself bad at the game but then clarified that playing the game against people with the same skill level is fun.

>>386943919
>I'm just too lazy to type it out

Why should anyone write several serious educational posts to try and reason and educate shitposters?
Absolutely no good reason to do so on 4chan of all places.
Unless you can provide good reasons for educating you, no one will give a shit.

>>386943940
Ive played thousands of hours of RTS games and Dota. Dota takes hundreds of hours to just be competent at. The controls are more accessible, the knowledge required to play the game competently isn't. There's a hundred more times the amount of shit you have to learn than your average RTS game

>>386944147
Who's the shitposter here?

>>386941042

fucking HoN can pull those numbers and nobody says that game is doing particularly well. its sustainable yeah, it has a niche yeah, but its down a LOT on what it could have/should have been.

>>386943940
>>386944150
wouldnt the fact that dota is a team game make it inherently more accessible?

>>386944147
Oh, look who's talking, you - the one who's been rambling on about "puffing your chest", what are you doing now?
Lmao talk about being a faggot.

>>386943962
>clearly you're too good for us here

Look who's talking. Why would anyone spend time and effort for your sake? For zero gain? For someone that acts like a genuine shitposting asshat such as yourself?
Fuck off you entitled child.

>>386939004
>Hi I'm 14 and browse 4chan. I have a contrarian opinion.
BW is rad as fuck, the plot, the art style, balance, the sound design, everything

>>386944223
See, you're still not providing any good reasons.

>>386944223
>>386944369
you're both idiots

>>386936408
Half of its playerbase would rather play more action oriented shit and the rest play more strategy oriented shit like grand strategy or city builders

Rts was too in-between

Errr...if this is an rts thread, can anyone tell me if they've tried Sudden Strike 4? It just came out recently on both GoG and Steam.

>>386942829
Nice projection there scrub, the guy is 100% right.

>>386944695
Why do you keep samefagging? This is just digging you in deeper.

You're got some proper growing up to do.

Because the inherent repetition of core RTS strategy loop of repeating build-attack-build-attack formula just isn't attractive and appealing to people anymore, especially since it often comes coupled with frustrating requirements to constantly split your attention between the combat and the management aspects of the game, which after a while most people just find annoying and distracting.
It's just extremely hard to make it face-level interesting through out the whole game, and not make it feel like constant re-doing of the same bloody thing over and over. Also, the repetitive nature also has a tendency of making flaws of A.I. or mission scripting particularly visible to players, and that combined with the "distant" and impersonal perspective results in games that generally don't feel very immersive and gripping.

Sure, there are options for extreme levels of complexity and challenge in the formula: core is extremely simple and repetitive, but both the split-management and the (potentially) extreme levels of nuance of execution make it appealing for competitive players. But to people who aren't all that interested in competitive gameplay, it's just... usually not fun after a while. Singleplayer in RTS games just works poorly most of the time.

And I think all of this, these core structure flaws, can be seen in the actual unrealistic expectations most self-proclaimed RTS fans have. Like: we had like five decent RTS games in the last few years. Every single one of them being abject commercial failure.

Why? Because all those people who constantly say how much they miss RTS games actually went:
"Uhhh... it's not as good as I it SHOULD." Proving that it's not really the damn genre that people want. People won't play RTS that are merely decent. That is why the genre is dying. While fans of train sims or tycoon management games are actually willing to play even mediocre titles in the genre becaues they enjoy the CORE mechanics, RTS players dont. They just claim they do.

>>386942840
You do, actually.

Medieval sieges were mainly won through logistics and if an attacking army couldn't get its supply lines right, it'd have to leave.

Now obviously that doesn't apply the same way for modern wars, but proper logistics and fortifications have always been important in war and get mostly ignored in RTS games.

>>386938943

casual players hate micro

>>386944860
Traditional RTS handle this rather elegantly, in my opinion.

A player playing a rush strategy will not have the same longterm economic viability that other strategies will have. In these cases, it simply becomes a matter of defending your base.

>>386936972
>join an AoE 2 ranked match, expecting to fail and learn
>trying to set up economy
>five archers come at 5 minutes and harass villagers while a builder builds a layer of stone wall and palisade between me and my resources

i just went back to some Total War after that.

>>386944860

all that could be fixed if generic troops couldnt kill walls like they can in most rts

I guess there's just not much more you can do with RTS games without it becoming something else. Most people just stick with the old games that pretty much perfected the genre.

>>386940817
Again..?
Cmon sirlin, just open the Alpha up already.

>>386945231
Forged Alliance always stands out among the old RTS games

>>386945123

>I can't send a scout to see if my opponent is rushing an archery range

Filthy casuals like you is the reason why the RTS genre is dying.

>>386944816
Learn how to detect samefagging scrublord, its my first time posting today.

>>386937523
It's been in development for like 15 years. I don't even know what they are working towards at this point. It's not even a game, just a bunch of assets.

>>386942982
Anti rush bunkers isn't walls anon.
WTF are you even on about

>>386945981
>what is the forge nexus cannon opening

>>386945908

>An RTS game that been in development for 15 years

I'm too scared to imagine how it plays like.

>>386945541
>spend resources to build scout and attack archery range
>die because his town center is also shooting at me with his archers
>base is walled in even harder
gucci stratagems there hardcore videogamer
i'd rather learn MAWAS and Wargame than play baseshit ever again

>>386946060
I assume
>Place Towers on enemy base
Its even a viable strat as humans in WC3

I swear to god it must be the same people that complain about RTS and fighting games.

literally find another genre to play already

>>386946153
Why the fuck do you people post about things you have no fucking idea about?

Here. Fucknig educate yourself.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Fast_Expand_Forge_Walling

>>386946183
This.
The more RTS-threads I see the more I'm convinced none of you fags complaining actually play RTS.

>>386946067
Garbage. It plays like garbage.

There are multiple civilizations, but they have all pretty much been chosen at random. None excel at anything. They all play pretty much the same with the only different being the artstyle.

Attacking is a complete nightmare because all your villagers are also soldiers, so the defender has a huge homefield advantage. Units die in just a couple of hits.

Game is badly optimized too and lacks good sound effects.

File: ac3d3e7bb0458d69a59c0e03f5835072--trailer-park-boys-quotes-watch-trailer.jpg (20KB, 236x337px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 236x337px

it's really easy to learn an opener or two and then literally do what you want.
even in gookclick you can build a big comfy base and macro up if you aren't a complete retard

>>386946149

>spot him rushing archery range with my scout
>builds skirmishers to counter his archer rush
>GG

See, it's not so hard.

File: PwCarthage5.png (105KB, 640x462px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 640x462px

>>386946281
??
Thats not walls. Walls are a dedicated structure type. Substituting them with a upgrade building, a house, and a turret isn't "walling".

File: alarak.png (1MB, 1464x817px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1464x817px

who is the best high lord and why is it alarak

>>386946625
Yes it is. A wall is structure placed to prevent access to your base. None of the building placement you see in that article is random.

>hurr it's not called a wall by the game so it's not a wall

>>386936408
people who build buildings on roads/dirt will be crushed by my superior realism armies

File: cryotray.jpg (49KB, 870x540px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 870x540px

Lets talk about the greatest RTS ever created.

>>386936408
What's wrong with making the base pretty? I made some really beautiful towns in AoE2 map editor.

>>386946183

i mean they're the only skill based 1v1 videogames so yeah

>>386936465
RTS elitists + MOBAs being better on many things.

RTS tryhards are only good at driving newbies away. The opposite is true for MOBAs

>>386946794
I haven't played the remaster yet

should I?

>>386946881

play the original, not the remaster

>>386946946
I already have along with cataclysm but is it worth to play the remaster as well?

File: Mothership.jpg (705KB, 1600x1600px) Image search: [Google]

705KB, 1600x1600px

>>386946881
>>386946946
Both are fine.

>>386946794
It was a fucking fluke. Nothing they have done since was even remotely good. Like the fucking Pirates of Caribbean: the first one was good on accident.

>>386946881
I did not play it with the massive patch they released year after release that was supposed to fix the most glaring flaws, but I found it mostly worse. The voiceacting has been re-recorded and it's not as good as it was originally (the voiceacting in the original was pretty much one of it's strongest points, weirdly enough), the graphics are neat, but a bit of the atmosphere seems gone, the A.I. was completely broken (but that was supposed to be fixed), and they replaced the iconic, custom-composed final song with pissed me to no end.

So as a fan of the originals, I'd say the remake is a step back in quality.

File: serveim423age.jpg (112KB, 1280x818px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 1280x818px

>>386946743
Is this a wall? It's pretty fucking placed and really good at preventing access.

>>386946743
>hurr durr dur
>durr hur hur
You tried and failed

>>386942341
Reminder that SupCom FA is still the goat rts