What the fuck why is sonic delayed? This is a super scummy move

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>>386862105
A R E Y O U F U C K I N G R E T A R D E D ? ? ?

>>386862272
No, just a rational concerned consumer

>>386862501
>get broken game on time.
>get fully functioning game at a later date.

>rational

Pick one.

Given from recent tweets, Sega probably wanted to force in Denuvo at the last minute.

>>386863042
>makes assumtions
>jumps to conckusion

>"rational consumer"

>>386863728
Well hey, it's a rumor going around from what i've been hearing.

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A delayed game is eventually good but a rushed game is bad forever
-Yuji Naka

>>386864060
Except now that they can patch games this isn't true.

>dev releases broken unplayable game that needs 2 months of patches to work
>OMG WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST DELAY IT AND MAKE SURE IT WORKED WHEN IT SHIPPED
>dev makes sure game is properly tested and playable before releasing it so they don't have to patch for 2 months
>OMG WHY DIDN'T THEY SHIP THE GAME EARLIER

Fucking kill yourself. I actually mean this, you deserve death you faggot

Is it me or can you not pre order the game if you don't have the Sega Mega Drive and Genesis collection?

>>386864481
>yea, sonic 06 totally could've been fixed with a bunch of patches.

It's ok. I'll be enjoying this game on my Switch. You fags do at least own ONE console so you can play when everyone's talking about it right?

>>386865935
If it couldn't be fixed with patches that means it couldn't be fixed with time.

>>386863042
Actually if you wanna know why Whitehead tweeted about it, it's because of this https://www.wired.com/story/malware-dna-hack/amp

Now I'm tempted to use this as part of my game

>>386862105
>What the fuck why is sonic delayed?
it wasnt, fatty

>>386866596
Technically it was delayed.

>>386866632
only for fatties.

Master race, huh?

>>386866530
Taxman should have known to NOT post something as negatively interpretable/cryptic as that the day sega fucks over literally thousands of people.

I hope this whole shazbat is something he didnt notice and he tries to get some arrangement from sega.

>>386866157
>paying monthly fee to use internet that you already pay for
I’d rather buy second GPU than get analy raped like that.

>>386867286
Could you actually imagine people being born with Denuvo?

>>386862105
>why did they delay
Uh, sweety, ever consider it's not finished yet?

>>386867546
Finished for consoles.

The only versions that matter.

>>386867546
It was already leaked on consoles and someone beat the game already, it's quite finished.

>>386867763
So it's a conspiracy

>>386867454
Dude:

>sega delays the game 2 weeks ONLY for pc, the most pirated platform.

>taxman is a man that values quality and efficiency over eveything.

>hours later he posts a tweet specifically about DRM, the thing that can stop a pc pirate on their tracks.

>Drm, specially denuvo is extremely dangerous and fucks up performance in every game is used.

Theres NO WAY that couldnt be interpreted in any other way than 'sega forced me to delay the game in order to implement drm to it'.

>>386866468
>couldn't be fixed with time
Literally, time constraints are the whole reason it's shit.

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>PC_gamer_wojack.jpeg

>>386867546
>>386867872
there is no conspiracy, someone at the top of sega just shat their pants over the fat eight chinner nintenbro leaking their game, so as a last resort they forced their people to implement a drm so people don't pirate the game
i don't get it, no-one does, but it just happened

Maybe if the PC userbase wasn't famous for pirating every damn game and then playing the victim, this wouldn't have happened, now would it?

Reap what ye sow.

PCfags BTFO.

>>386868309
Dude, stop trying to fool anyone, you have pirated too.

>>386864481
This is the retarded logic on why games are basically sold like shit on release, instead of being an actual finished product.

Fuck you and kill yourself you stupid worthless bitchass cocksucking retarded mongoloid. You're the reason games suck.

They should have just made plans far in advance to release the PC version later. This is the price of piracy. Reap what you sow, faggots.

>>386867872
Stop being self righteous faggot, It's obvious they're delaying it on PC because they want to implement DRM. What's dumb is that this will only kill all hype PC players had and most potential buyers are going to pirate this shit after the inevitable day one denuvo crack the scene has been pulling out lately.

>>386867842
>you will support the practices that you hate by not buying from companies that make use of them xD
Yeah, no.

>>386868309

What he said.

Haw haw.

Why do people even make PC games anymore?

>>386868374
You wish, Long John Faggot. Have fun waiting an extra two weeks while I enjoy some Sonic goodness.

>>386862956
>broken
>implying
It's not fucking broken, they're implementing denuvo.

>>386868686
Why do people even make console games is the real question?

>>386862956
>broken game on time
Just like every other Sonic game including the """classics"""?

>>386868754
Why do people make games in general?

>>386862956
>get broken game on time.

If it doesn't work I can just not play it. You know, like I'm not doing now until the 29th.

Also it's going to work fine on a majority of systems. Or else they wouldn't have discovered the problems a few days before release.

If you're going to shitpost. Shitpost about the poorfags who will have performance issues from a 1.6ghz requirement 2d game.

>>386868669

What's to cry about? This is hilarious.

>>386868754

Its good at keeping piracy at a minimum. Games should only get released on PC a year after the console versions hit, this should be an industry standard. A fucking law, even.

Where exactly do you think you get a say in the equation? Sega gave you what you want if you're this fickle, you're not outraged, you were looking for a justifiable excuse to not pay and here it is. And there's no discourse that be had with you, nothing that will change your mind and make you think the game is worth supporting for the team that worked and the future of the franchise. You're a lost cause.

Sales feedback is a real thing and when you pirate, you don't exist in sales feedback. If you want to play a game and you pirate it, but never buy it, you are not there in the sales feedback that a company looks over so when sales dip a considerable amount, they see that the (potentially good game) that you didn't buy isn't what people really want and they shift their focus to other avenues, because every business needs money to survive. They're not ran off of hope, wishes, and good intentions you know, so of course they will go to where the most money is and money comes from consumers. It's basic economics.

It's not just your $20 genius, it's also the $20 of the guy next to you and the $20 of the guy next to him, and the $20 of the thousands more people who are being reactionary over this and punishing a team that clearly had no say in this decision. Your logic is flawed, it's like saying one vote can't possibly matter in a political election so no one should vote. But if no one did we wouldn't have government, and if no one bought games we wouldn't have a games industry. Your passive complacence is only made possible by actual consumers and surely you realize the value of sales feedback and the positive reinforcement that comes from it.

>>386868881
>i want pcfags to not get games released for pure butthurt

>>386868686
Good question. According to the people here, PC games don't ever sell.

>>386868309
>punishing honest people to mess with the people who aren't your customers
Perfect /v/ logic

>>386868930
$0.02 has been given to your account!

>>386868819
If you won't play it if it doesn't work, what difference does it make that they're delaying it?

>>386868930
thanks for the pasta as i am hunger

The game isn't even broken, you lobotomized chimpanzees. What you saw is what you're going to get.

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>actually excited for sonic mania because it's a modern 2d sonic game that actually looks good
>have a good time laughing at the autist who game over'd 12 times on oil ocean
>now they've delayed the PC version literally the day after the switch version was leaked by said autist
>all signs point to adding DRM

>/v/ would rather incite console wars for the 45th time today instead of actually focusing on the problem the pc port faces

>>386867948
>Drm, specially denuvo is extremely dangerous and fucks up performance in every game is used.

Oh fuck I did not know that. So "optimization issues" is the truth and they're telling us in-between the lines.

>>386869021
>>386868981
>Audible sobbing over being called out like the peons you are

>>386862105
you guys interested in a sonic/kirby crossover?
>>386867943

>>386868930
According to that logic, we should buy every game regardless of ridiculous publisher practices because the devs are usually good people who just do what the publisher tells them to.

>>386869121
More $0.02 has been given to your account!

>>386868930
I'm flattered you would take my posts out of context to use as a copypasta, pirate-kun.

>>386868881
I'd stop paying for games new altogether if that ever happened. My backlog is large enough as it is.

>>386868448
This

The memory of version 1.0 exists forever no matter how much better the game is

However on an unrelated not, if you make the game worse through patching, 1.0 is forgotten

>>386868297
>>386868543
>sega didnt know people would pirate their game on pc until the switch version leaked
>t. brainlets

>>386869167
If those were seriously your posts you should honestly consider suicide.

>>386869010
Because I have a real computer

>>386869129
>>386869161

Why should Tax and his team be punished for a last-minute decision by Sega? Why should the future of Sonic be put in jeopardy, especially considering Sega said that the reaction to Mania and Forces is going to help decide it? And most of all, why would you even bother pirating a game you're not actually interested in? If it looks good to you and it is a product that you would like to enjoy, you purchase it. Use your discretion and make that decision for yourself, but don't pretend that pirating good games you like is sticking it to some imaginary corporate demon out to shaft you at every turn.

I think you can put aside your false outrage at Sega to lend your support to a team that put a lot of heart into a great game. This thread just proves my point, by pirating a game you show interest in a product so if you truly do like it, why not buy the product like you should in a free market dictated by the consumers?

>Um because I can get it for free and I want it for free and fuck you XD

But like I said, hopeless and unable to be reasoned with. Nothing ever said could make you change your mind, you will just continue to siphon off games you enjoy without paying for them and being one of the many parasites that gear the industry MORE towards the bullshit practices that you claim to hate. That's textbook entitlement whether you like it or not and no matter how you spin it.

Why the fuck is the mania team being such babies? What about all the other sonic games on steam that got pirated, why is this one such a big deal?

>>386869302
You didn't see the whole argument, drone. And I doubt you could even disprove the out-of-context arguments presented, because it's all true.

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Fabulous reason for edit.

>>386867427
so you're retarded is what you're saying?

>>386869287
>implying they knew
the fact that they're delaying it 4 days before the release after the review copies were already sent should give you a clue

>>386862105
Thread Theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUFWXpYJKaI

Okay, /v/, give me an estimate, how long will it take for the torrents to drop? 3 weeks? A month?

>>386869129
Yeah fuck this

I'm tried of developers being propped up as hostages every time we don't buy a shitty jewed game. By paying anyway you're just enabling it to happen again.

>>386869378

They weren't new, just old ports. Use your head.

Why was it delayed? Optimization? How the fuck can a 2D sonic game not be running like butter on PC?

>Mania: Blunder.
>Forces: Obvious blunder.
Hopefully Sega comes to their senses and makes Sonic Adventure 3 to restore the rep these two games are further destroying in this franchise.

>>386869471
I predict 1 week out of spite.

>>386869381
Why do I need to disprove unproven nonsense? Nothing in that post is true, you're a shiteating drone who thinks people are obligated to give their money to publishers.

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I think I'll stick with an actually good platformer.

>>386869373
>Why should Tax and his team be punished for a last-minute decision by Sega?

Collateral damage. And why aren't you asking sega this question? They made this bed.

>>386869454
Sega was releasing pc games before you were born, kid

>>386869492
It plays fine. This is to add DRM.

>>386869471
Try 1 day.

this negative reaction is why everyone hates PC players.
>You did one thing I don't like now I'm gonna pirate your game fuck you!
and you expect devs to make you a priority? Pathetic.

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>>386869492

>>386869570
>you're a shiteating drone who thinks people are obligated to give their money to publishers.
False. You're obligated to pay for products that you enjoy regardless of your personal fee fees. If the publisher offended you so greatly, don't buy the game - and don't pirate. I'm sure you can do without if it's an ethics thing.

>tfw cant run mania on my toaster anymore because of denuvo
NOT FAIR

>>386869671
>devs are entitled to my money
kys

>>386869581
>Crash
>good platformer

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>>386869604
any actual proof to support this claim

>>386869596
>kid
wow you really showed me, kid

>>386869768
But you're entitled to their game? Like I said, pathetic

Haha, while are you little babies cry, I think I'll emulate the android port of Sonic 2, you know, the game that is miles better than Mania

>>386869604
>>386869692
You've got to be shitting me.

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>>386869775
>a PS4 exclusive remake will sell better than Forces and Mania combined

>>386869860
>the game that is miles better than Mania
I see what you did there.

>>386869931
Delusion

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>Comfy Mania threads are over

>>386862105
>playing sonic past age 10
Might as well kill yourself

>>386869872
The game leaked this week, and suddenly the game is delayed ONLY on PC, the platforrm that can have Denuvo added?

Yeah, total coincidence.

So how long now until we get Taxman's resignation letter?

>>386864481
Street Fighter V has been patched to hell and back and its still a total mess.

>>386869671
If they add Denuvo to the game I will legitimately cancel my preorder and pirate it. This shit CAN'T be allowed.

>>386869992
Just goes to show how spastic /v/ is, the second they get wind they may not be able to pirate something day one they hate it

>>386869992
I'll miss them for sure, at least we got pure comfy climax during Oil Ocean

>>386869708
>You're obligated to pay for products that you enjoy regardless of your personal fee fees.
False. I'm not obligated to do shit, my personal purchasing decisions are literally dictated by my personal fee fees, not some fat fuck dickless drone nobody on /v/ who demands I don't pirate and do without. My desires > Your personal ethics.

>>386869872
We don't know. It depends on how you read the situation in light of taxman's tweet

>>386869931
>PS4 exclusive*

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>>386869986
I'm sorry for your loss Sanic fans

>>386869373
>Why should Tax and his team be punished for a last-minute decision by Sega?
They're punished only in the sense they're Sega employees and Sega holds them hostage. I'm not going to help a shitty publisher keep on doing shitty things because they hold some devs hostage.

>Why should the future of Sonic be put in jeopardy, especially considering Sega said that the reaction to Mania and Forces is going to help decide it?
Who are you fooling? There will always be Sonic games. Either way, I don't actually care for this specific series. Last Sonic game I played was on the Genesis, and I was only going to buy this one because it piqued my interest.

>And most of all, why would you even bother pirating a game you're not actually interested in?
Who said I'm not interested?

>If it looks good to you and it is a product that you would like to enjoy, you purchase it
Only if I feel the company deserves it.

>I think you can put aside your false outrage at Sega to lend your support to a team that put a lot of heart into a great game.
I don't have unlimited money and I'm not supporting a company that fucks up this much for the sake of DRM. I don't even know whether it's a great game, I haven't played it, it's not even out yet.

>>386870065
this attitude is why PC gets treated like shit. Hope you're proud when the next sonic is console exclusive

>>386869784
a 1.6ghz game suddenly has performance issues days before release

>>386869992
We can still have them, just don't invite Sonygro or PCfags.

>>386870116
It's not fucking fair. Mania looked like a potential GOTY and now this bullshit. PC gaming is dead isn't it?

>>386869708
>and don't pirate
Force me.

>>386870084
Honestly you guys are fucking retarded to think it was delayed to put in drm because the switch leak.

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You guys can blame yourselves, you know that? The emergency announcement came completely out of the blue and right after the leaker. Sega likely saw the leakers streams and followed suit to eightchan and here, where all the comments they saw were bashing the game over little things and people claiming they were gonna pirate it

>>386869931
reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VdvFzRjH1E

>>386869838
Nah, it's pathetic you think publishers are entitled to money while nobody is entitled to good games. You're a corporate tool, it doesn't' get more pathetic than that.

>>386870105
If they're not entitled to your money you're not entitled to their game. In a free market when you desire a product, you pay for it in a mutually beneficial exchange. Nothing you say can change this and you're just squalling like a child at this point.

>>386870135

What loss? I'm playing it Tuesday.

But don't worry "Master Race". Two weeks will fly by, you'll see.

Once again, /v/ overreacting like the shithole it is. Sure, a delay sucks. But how the hell is that enough to say that the game is irredeemable dumpster trash?

>Suckered into buying Wii-U which isn't getting this for some reason
>Waiting for Pokemon to get a switch and lack PS4/Xbone
>PC port delayed

I'm a wee bit pissed.

>>386870192
Companies aren't immature children like you.

No one is retarded enough to cut their profit potential because of "attitude"

>>386869381
I did see the whole argument actually, you were thoroughly disproven by a post you ignored in favor of continuing to shitpost about pirates being entitled and ruining the industry by not buying this sonic game.

>>386870232
Delayed to put in drm regardless of the switch leak. DRM doesn't stop leaks idiot. It slows piracy.

>>386870192
Right, just because console people are okay with all sorts of bullshit everyone else has to be as well.

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Just get the game on a console. This only really inconveniences 3 types of people.

1) Those who only have PCs. (basically nobody)
2) People who like mods. (There won't be any real mods for at least a year, if ever).
3) Pirates. (Fuck Pirates)

>>386870238
Oh no people were mean on a niche korean cartoon website

>>386869373
Showing interest in a product doesn't automatically make them entitled to my money regardless of their practices. The whole point of a free market is that you should NEVER just accept things. A free market only works with rational actors. People who will boycott businesses that make shitty decisions. Bending over and taking it is just about the worst thing you can do under a purely capitalist system.
You have proven nothing except how irrational and unreasonable you are. Your outrage at pirates is false, paying $20 for a video game is not "lending your support" you monumental moron. No matter how you try to spin it as "textbook entitlement" while Sega and every other publisher get to act in self interest amorally in pursuit of self profit.

> being one of the many parasites that gear the industry MORE towards the bullshit practices that you claim to hate.
As opposed to rewarding those business practices by giving them your money no matter what, signaling that those practices are acceptable because they won't hurt their bottom line. Congrats, you are completely fucking retarded.

>>386869931
I can't wait to see crash on Xbox, fuck you Sony fags for hyping up that mediocre platformer

>>386870262
fuck off stupid tripfag, no one cares

>>386870358
I responded to every post leveled at me. For further grievances please consult >>386870261 and have yourself a nice day.

>>386870192
How is that an attitude? If they don't have cancerous DRM I will buy their game if they add it I will just pirate it and wait for a crack.

>>386870212
>PC gaming is dead isn't it?
Not even close.

Would this still have happened if not for the huge leak (which was for the Switch version, mind you) yesterday? It seems like a last-second emergency action to me, especially with it being so close to the original release date.

>>386870261
>If they're not entitled to your money you're not entitled to their game.

Who is here sperging that sega has to gibs mania now for free

They're saying they aren't buying it, because they aren't.

>>386864790
Everyone else will ignore this simply because they'd rather be shitposting instead.

>>386870389
>those who only have PCs
I don't own any modern gen gaming consoles because none of the exclusives are worth it in my opinion

>>386870494

Probably not, no.

>>386870435
we're talking about a team that greenlighted shoving classic sonic into forces again for whatever reason
they're as disconnected from reality as it can get
it's a miracle mania even exists

>>386870494
Theory time: What if they were planning on releasing the game early as long as Mark didn't get past Oil Ocean?

>>386870389
I ordered it on PC expecting to get it at the same time as consoles. It's fucking bullshit I have to wait 2 weeks for them to add their dumb fucking DRM.

>>386870383
You don't fucking know that though, it could be a delay because none of the menus were converted from gamepad to keyboard.

>>386870352
You don't understand then it's not just attitude, PC ports don't make that much money because people pirate them. Console games are where the money is at. This is a fact. PC is not a priority for companies because piracy eats a huge chunk of that possible profit

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>>386870238
>AAA developers changing games less than a week before release because of what chans say

>>386864790
It is playable, you fucking idiot. This delay is for anti-piracy, not bug fixes

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>>386870450
Don't worry, one day Sanic will get a good game too.

>>386870615
I would be fine if that was the case, but it doesn't seem likely.

>>386870494
>Would this still have happened if not for the huge leak
Most likely yeah.

>>386870387
Consoles don't need drm because piracy isn't a huge issue :9

>>386870442
There's no /v/ debate club anon

Hint: you're being trolled

>>386870442
Oh yeah? So paying for the game is not showing support, but it IS enabling unsavory business practices. You want to explain to me how that cognitive dissonance works, enlightened pirate warrior?

If you want a product you pay for it, it's law of the free market and the metric of sales feedback. If you don't like it that's tough, pirating out of some false ethical stance is just hypocrisy no matter how much you deny it.

>>386870435
>>386870626
alright then, you guys watch and see when the only things added are transitions and DRM

It fucking better not have Denuvo, it better be some catastrophic bug that wiped your hard drive or some shit.
I want fucking mods!

Blame the Pirates. They are the ones who make PC gaming uncompetitive.

>>386870706
I'm not talking just about drm. I'm already fed up with all categories of shit publishers throw at us.

>its another "pirates sperg out on a video game and get it delayed by two weeks because of their poor autism" episode

Pirate fags need to leave. This is YOUR fault!

>>386870776
PC gaming, in my opinion, should be a free market.

>>386870261
>If they're not entitled to your money you're not entitled to their game.
False again. I'm entitled to act in self interest, which includes free games, just as they're entitled to not making quality games and delaying their releases out of spite. In a free market, you are not obligated to support publishers who make shitty decisions. Nothing you say can change this and you're literally squalling like a child over piracy at this point. Companies get a free pass to act amoral and make decisions in pure self interest, but when we make similar calculations salty manchildren and moralfags screech about entitlement and ethics at us.

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>>386870559
>33% of Forces is Modern Sonic

>>386870690
Based on what? Pc will make the least amount of money, it could be way behind as far as we know because they prioritiezed the versions expected the sell better. My retarded theories are just as credible as the rest of you

>>386870804
it's the leakers fault really. Had that leak not happened, you know we'd be getting it on tuesday

>>386870851
And that's exactly why it's full of garbage ports and drm

>>386870727
That still wouldn't prove your point. As >>386870702 said, this came so out of the blue that it was likely already planned outside of what happened yesterday.

>>386870907
That makes no sense because they'd delay the switch version too

>>386870494
>Would this still have happened if not for the huge leak (which was for the Switch version, mind you) yesterday?

What order of logic does this follow

Oh Nintendo fucked up and leaked the game, let's delay the PC version because ?????????

>It seems like a last-second emergency action to me, especially with it being so close to the original release date.

My guess is they expected to have denuvo's performance problems corrected before time was up. And now they are accepting they were wrong.

>>386870975
There's far more to lose in delaying the Switch version.

>>386870917
Why wait until the last possible second to pull this shit, though?

>>386870907
Honestly doubt it was JUST the leaker. It could've also been the people who got the review codes on Steam giving them feedback on what's wrong with it, and they decided to just get it out of the way since the leaker brought a lot of attention to the game.

>>386870975

Consoles can't have Denuvo. But PC can, so they're scrambling to add it to at least ONE version.

>>386870860
Companies can do whatever will cost them sales, and no one said you have to buy their games if it upsets you that much, but you should have to if you want to play it. In no other market would it be found acceptable that you obtain a product for free, just because you really really want it :(

Suddenly I'm glad for the delay, and I'm glad for them slapping Denuvo on it if it drives a rusty nail into people like you. By the time you're able to pirate it, it will be too late for it to matter. If you really want the game you'll buy it long before that window comes, so truthfully all they're doing is filtering you out of the equation completely.

>>386871094
So what you're telling me is PC isn't the masterrace after all?

>>386862105
If you concentrate, you can smell the autism oozing out of this OP.

Try it, I'm not kidding.

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>>386870881
>4chan will be nothing but LOOK I MADE SONICHU when forces comes out

NOT FAIR
>NOT FAIR
NOT FAIR
>NOT FAIR
NOT FAIR
>NOT FAIR
NOT FAIR
>NOT FAIR

but really, why don't they give us something good to hold us over instead of just sonic 1, a game that anyone can emulate? Right now, it seems like PCbros are just getting fucked over and given a mouth full of shit

>people saying shit like the game probably isn't finished
Review copies went out.

>>386871228
>muh friends
Yeah let's play with only Sonic for the 1000th time that's what's really fun

>>386870615
>You don't fucking know that though, it could be a delay because none of the menus were converted from gamepad to keyboard.

No it has to be time consuming, and it has to effect a large enough segment of PCs to justify delaying the game on long fixed time table instead of just releasing it as is and patching it as soon as a fix is finished.

Taxman and stealth do not have a history of incompetence. Performance issues on a 1.6ghz game is normally unfathomable.

Denuvo being a bitch is literally the best explanation. It slows down games.

>>386871228
I don't see any mention of the game getting delayed at the last minute on one platform.

>>386871169

Seems that way. Crazy, huh?

>>386871246
>NOT FAIR
>not NO WAY
Is there a good Sonic game on PC that Mania buyers wouldn't already have?

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>>386871090
That's what's so baffling about this. It's bullshit if it's DRM tacked of for fear of piracy, and it's even more bullshit if the devs are simply adding game content like bugfixes or zone transitions since patches are easiest to implement on PCs out of any platform. I'm still sitting here in confused shock, myself.

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>>386871371
>have literally all Sonic games released on Steam

>>386871158
>no one said you have to buy their games if it upsets you that much
Then we're settled.
>but you should have to if you want to play it
No, he doesn't. If that's how YOU feel about it, well, your fucking problem.

>>386870725
He's not the one arguing that paying for a game is showing support but people who don't somehow enable unsavory business practices by not supporting them. You just exposed your own cognitive dissonance, enlightened industry white knight.

Your laws of the free market doesn't mean shit to us. Companies get to misdirect, delay, shove mtx shit into there games and it's perfectly acceptable, but I have to abide by your false ethcial stances? Yeah how about fuck you. You're excluding anyone who doesn't pay for shit, pirate or not from your "metric of sales feedback".

>pirating out of some false ethical stance is just hypocrisy no matter how much you deny it
Accusing pirates of gearing game companies towards more bullshit practices by not spending money on games despite it is literally hypocrisy you fucking ignoramus.

>>386871371
Probably Sonic 3 and Knuckles since it wasn't in that Humble Bundle.

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>all this time people have been saying in every single damn mania thread that they are going to Pirate the game.
>Now they have to wait longer while upstanding moral citizens get the first taste while pirate-fags sit in theire hovels in poverty-land where they can't afford a $20 game and cry about things not being fair to the morally bankrupt.

Shame for the people who were buying the game on PC, but come-on now, PC gaming is clearly plagued by the pirates and them having to taste it should be expected because of the very nature of the platform they chose.

>>386870898
Games are developed and tested iteratively on PCs and ported to other hardware. PC is always the main platform even if it gets console button prompts.

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>all these mouthbreathing wank stains that equate all potential pc version customers as pirates who were "just going to pirate it anyway" because everyone is legitimately concerned about the possible inclusion of DRM
>for this two week delay, pc customers get L I T E R A L L Y N O T H I N G but a note with a drawing of sonic on it (who the fuck hasn't played sonic 1 already if they're buying this game, seriously)
I'm somewhat regretting pre-ordering now

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>>386871438
would you buy sonic labyrinth if it came out on steam

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>bought the physical pv collectors edition
>get treated as a second class citizen
Should I just cancel my order and pirate it? This is like a slap in the face. I want more classic Sonic games but if Sega is treating their pc consumers like shit after stating they wanted to focus more on pc than console then fuck them

>>386871495
yeah, I'm sorry that I can't get a job in this fucked economy and I just wanted to enjoy some video games

>>386871495
No it shouldnt, we didnt do anything.

And stop talking bullshit, you can deny it all you want but you are a pirate too.

>>386871603
Already own it on the 3DS but probably would

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>>386871495
>falling for the smugsonic.jpg /whopirate/ meme
>when people have been saying for over a year they can't wait to preorder

>>386871603
The only time buying Labyrinth is acceptable is if you're buying Mega Collection+ or Gems, whatever it was on.

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>someone in thread points out that "special announcement" is a dumb title for the video
>it gets changed to "Unboxing and new PC release date"
hmmm

>>386871629
Don't be a cuck and cancel it.

>>386871449
Like I said, you and your sperg ilk have been filtered out. I think I see that this is actually a great business decision on Sega's part rather than a bad one, since the delay and Denuvo is performing its function. Your say in it is unimportant.

>>386871450
There's one gaping hole in your rhetoric here buddy: it's not just about refusing to buy a game, it's about obtaining a product for free. Want product? Pay up. You're free to pirate but you should at least admit to yourself that nothing you do counts towards the games you like and thus, you shouldn't be allowed an opinion on the state of the industry since you don't contribute to it. You're not a real consumer or investor and you don't matter.

>>386871495
>all this time people have been saying in every single damn mania thread that they are going to Pirate the game.

It was literally 2 guys at most

I know because it was always posted with the same picture or a :^) face

>>386871158
>Companies can do whatever will cost them sales,
And I can do whatever I will to get games, even if it means for free.

>and no one said you have to buy their games if it upsets you that much
Except for the anon claiming we need to lend the dev team support and not buying this game puts the franchise in jeopardy.

>but you should have to if you want to play it.
And companies should have to make good games and release them on time if they want my money. Sorry we don't get everything we want.

>In no other market would it be found acceptable that you obtain a product for free, just because you really really want it :(
In no other industry would companies have this much power and leeway over consumers, just because they really want to profit :(

>Suddenly I'm glad for the delay, and I'm glad for them slapping Denuvo on it if it drives a rusty nail into people like you. By the time you're able to pirate it, it will be too late for it to matter. If you really want the game you'll buy it long before that window comes, so truthfully all they're doing is filtering you out of the equation completely.
In other words you don't really care about the devs or supporting the franchise, it's all just to spite PC players even if they buy the game.

Thanks for conceding the argument.

>>386871747
I hope they really are in the threads so they see how much they fucked up.

>no Amy
No buy.

>>386871629
You could probably sell the stuff inside for more than you're getting it so no.

>>386871597
You're not allowed to, you can't flip your decision at all.

>>386871674

>everyone pirates

When you assume, you make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.

>>386871603
I wouldn't own any of the emulated games on steam if they didn't come in that big sonic bundle.

>>386871525
>game are made with computer
Wow insightful

>>386871865
>Inb4 they add in DRM because we wont shut up about it

>>386871158
Except you already decided that anyone who doesn't pay for the game is "out of the equation completely" and not part of the sales feedback. Only people who bought the game matter, even though as soon as they have your money they have no reason to care about you.

>>386862105

Master race cucked again

>>386871885
Good fucking point. I'll just sell that shit on ebay and make money off their fuck-up

>>386871879
Stuff like this is why you should buy the PC version, because you know mods will come out and fix it.
Look at Sonic Generations

>>386871094
>>386871169
Consoles already have their own DRM

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let's create our own Sonic rom hack

>>386871862
Don't like the game or the practices around it, don't buy it. Decide you want to play it? Pay up. Your conjecture is worthless, this is how economy works. Thank you for your time.

Pirate Cucks BTFO

>>386872032
Not if it has Denuvo, they won't.

For about a day.

Please understand.

>>386871981
But we're not the ones paying 20$ for a romhack.

Did you hear? Apparently Michael Jackson is still alive and did the soundtrack for Mania. Just a rumor I've heard.

>>386871887
Yeah, if I refund my copy /v/ will go apeshit and call me a pirate for 50 posts

>>386872091
No.

>>386871909
Yes and...?

>>386863042
Good thing I legally purchased the game.

>>386872113

>can't pirate it anymore
>"I--its just a romhack, I didn't even want it!"

>>386871786
>I think I see that this is actually a great business decision on Sega's part rather than a bad one, since the delay and Denuvo is performing its function. Your say in it is unimportant.
Which is fine. Again, I am pirating it for the reasons stated when I originally was going to buy the game. But if they think it's best to do this, whatever, I'm already satisfied by not buying the game, and I've already stated my reasons. There's nothing else to be said.

>>386872016
Just remember to sell the code off separately if you don't use it.

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>>386872117
>MJ just rose from the grave last week
>they want to hire him to make music for the PC release

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW

>>386872215
SHUT UP YOU STUPID TRIPFAG
god damn, people have been saying it's a romhack since day 1. Stop acting like big shit and just fuck off

>>386870630
Why wouldn't they just put anti-piracy in, in the first place? Why would they set a release date and then decide a few days before release "HEY, LET'S PUT ANTI-PIRACY IN!"?

This is real life, not your dumbass amateur game dev hobby. Things are planned, Denuvo is a large financial investment and something they would have decided over a year ago, not randomly a few days before release, you daft cunt.

However, bug fixes is a totally valid reason for something to be delayed by a few days.

You are actually retarded.

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>>386872215
>can't pirate it anymore
Should we tell him?

How can one company so shit at everything?
It's like they purposely pursue the best way to give fuck you to their customers.

>>386872339

Not for two weeks, at least.

>>386872321
>giving tripfags attention and not filtering them

>>386871865
If its really tech issues and not DRM issues, I really hope someone on the team begs sega to do a steam opt-in beta release. Just announce it on twitter and only enthusiasts who are willing and aware of the issues will possibly encounter shoddy software.

>>386872337

SEGA is hacks, they probably just figured out that people are actually excited for Mania and decided to put anti-piracy measures in last minute because they didn't care up until now.

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>>386872337

>>386871786
>There's one gaping hole in your rhetoric here buddy: it's not just about refusing to buy a game, it's about obtaining a product for free.

There's no gaping hole in my argument because obtaining the product for free is completely irrelevant. Whether you obtain the product or do without, nothing you do counts towards the gaming industry as long as you abstain from buying games. Nobody is allowed an opinion on the state of the industry unless they actively contribute it, aka being a consumer paypig who laps up and buys whatever the industry shits out regardless of quality or timeliness. And the opinions of these "real consumers" don't matter either as long as they keep paying, since the industry knows they'll pay up no matter what bullshit companies try to pull over them. ANd if they stop paying? They're no longer contributing to the industry and their opinons don't matter.

So basically, unless you're a shareholder in the company your opinions as a consumer don't matter

>>386872549
SEGA ARE hacks, anon.

Good thing I bought the CE, that makes up for at least 3 piratefags. I'll probably double dip somewhere down the line too, and probably buy some copies for friends or giveaways.

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>>386870389
I preordered this on PC because I loved ROM hacks as a kid and loved playing them using a keyboard.
I own a PS4, I could have bought it there.

>>386872337
Dude, stealth has said the game is officially gold, it doesnt need fixes.

However i hope its true that it actually needs a fix and not taxman being forced to implement drm.

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>>386872442
Tekken 7 was cracked in 3 days. I give 2 days for Sanic.

Who /sailing/ here?

>>386872064
>Don't like the game or the practices around it, don't buy it.
Already got that covered champ.
>>386872064
>Decide you want to play it? Pay up.
Nope. I get it for free, your conjecture is worthless and won't change that. You don't know shit about the economy.

>>386871786
>you shouldn't be allowed an opinion on the state of the industry since you don't contribute to it.
He could possibly be contributing. It probably would interest he company to know why a chunk of people decided not to pay and decided to pirate instead. But again, you can go on and pretend these people don't exist, whatever suits your purposes.

>>386870389
>streaming speedruns on a console
Fuck off pleb

>>386872337
>Why wouldn't they just put anti-piracy in, in the first place? Why would they set a release date and then decide a few days before release "HEY, LET'S PUT ANTI-PIRACY IN!"?

The DRM theory doesn't require that. They probably started putting in DRM ages ago and it's had long term problems that they expected to have fixed by now. And they wanted to wait as long as they could before telling us just in the event it got fixed in time.

>>386872751
Buying on Switch, Pirating on PC when it happens.

>>386872609
It's called voting with your wallet, idiot. Let me try this: I see game, game good and me like game, me buy game. Lots other people do same, they see game, game good and they buy game. Company see many people like game, the game is good so they make more of good game.

There. Did that register for you?

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>>386872581
And yet the crack will be made within a few days after release. Weeks of effort and fucking over the honest customers for nothing.

>>386872831
>he doesn't know

>>386871786
>. I think I see that this is actually a great business decision on Sega's part rather than a bad one, since the delay and Denuvo is performing its function.
Dissuading people from buying the game and encouraging more people to pirate? Sounds like a great business decision to me.

You and your sperg ilk will bend over and take it up the ass no matter how far they thrust into you.

>>386862105
Oh wow, 6 or something days. Awwww diddums

>>386872910
That shitty console stream with awful sound quality and no way to add timers?

I know.

>>386872064
>Don't like the game or the practices around it, don't buy it.
That's exactly what he's doing.
>Decide you want to play it? Pay up.
He doesn't have to do that. Are you autistic?

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>>386872884
>when denuvo servers finally shut down all the legitimate consumers will no longer be able to play their legit games because the drm can't contact the home server
Why is this allowed

>>386872882
Consumers only really have sovereignty in a perfectly competitive market. The market we have is mostly made up of huge oligopolies, so our ability to determine what happens in the market as consumers is infinitesimally small.

That's the thing with "vote with your wallet". A plutocratic process doesn't care about the majority. It only cares about a minority that can pay enough to make whatever the process at hand happens to be worthwhile.

>>386872982
It's being delayed by 2 weeks.

>>386871786
>since the delay and Denuvo is performing its function.

Making buyers mad and losing sales?

>>386868819
>game gets released with issues
>gets a 75 on Metacritic
>people avoid buying due to hearing it has issues

>game gets delayed and released with smooth gameplay
>88 on Metacritic
>More sales due to good media

Rather than thinking like a tard try to think from the viewpoint of the company releasing the game.

>>386873106
you're an idiot if you think it's for bug fixes. Did you guys not pay attention when Stealth said it was gold and when Taxman made a sly remark about DRM?

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>>386862105
It's almost like Sega didn't want Mania to be pirated or something.

>>386873052
>The market we have is mostly made up of huge oligopolies, so our ability to determine what happens in the market as consumers is infinitesimally small.
It doesn't stop people from doing it. They don't need to rationalize it like an autist, they pay if they want, they'll play the game anyway. If something upsets them, they can just not pay.

>>386873052
>It only cares about a minority that can pay enough to make whatever the process at hand happens to be worthwhile.
Would this not be the paying consumers that I was referring to? And would companies not want to maximize their profits by having more people pay for their products, adjusting the quality of them accordingly according to sales feedback?

>>386873106
>PC score getting near as much publicity as console scores
>Think games sell well because of good reviews and not good reviews being handed out to games predicted to sell well

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I don't mind the pirates who are still going to buy it when it comes out two weeks later. That's what I suggest you do if you are going to Pirate, because Mania is not a game we want to do poorly.

>PC fags have to wait

WHAHAHAH

>>386872882
>It's called voting with your wallet, idiot. Let
This was already addressed in a reply to you from the last thread, so I'm not surprised you completely ignored and couldn't refute it.

The gaping hole in your rhetoric is that many people buy bad games, bad games continued to be made even when they are heavily pirated. And buying games sold under shitty business practices just encourages those shitty practices. Also your purchase or lacktheerof doesn't encourage or discourage other people to buy the game. Word of mouth and marketing has a bigger impact, whereas my decision to pirate has none. Though your ape-like prose is really illuminating to your internal thought process.

>>386873106
The game works 100% fine on consoles and they are delaying the pc version not because of performance but because they want to put in last minute drm. They are delaying legitimate costumers 2 weeks for no fucking reason because denuvo gets cracked in two fucking days instead of months now. They are being anti-consumer and it is making people cancel their preorders. Check the steam forums. Legit consumers are canceling their preorder over this drm bullshit

>>386873395
Why do i recognized this girl in red?

You all realize Whitehead is talking about that article about how they put malware and shit in DNA, right?

>>386873494
Sonic had a GF during development but was removed.

>>386873053
Well that's what you get for wanting to play a game that will be absolutely no different from its console builds on a system geared towards rts and shooters.

>>386873494

Sonic was originally going to have a human girlfriend named Madonna. Then Sega of America said that was a bad idea and the concept got axed.

>>386873451
would it be funny if they made their own and called it the sega megadrm?

>>386873523
Why would he be researching DRM?

>>386873440
>The gaping hole in your rhetoric is that many people buy bad games

Anon that's because they have bad taste and they are getting the value they want in exchange for their money. No one is getting robbed.

>>386873440
>The gaping hole in your rhetoric is that many people buy bad games, bad games continued to be made even when they are heavily pirated
I'm aware of this, I thought about it but it just reinforces my stance. Stupid casuals are always going to buy up the bad games they like without a moment's thought and no matter how much they get price gouged over it, so why would you NOT support the smaller and inevitably more niche good games that you like, in turn? If companies look at the feedback and see that virtually no market exists for the good games that we want, but there's a huge market for your typical AAA yearly schlock, as there always will be like you said, which way do you think they're gonna go?

>>386873302
As opposed to rationalizing it as supporting the dev team and the future of the franchise like an autist. . If something upsets them, they can just not pay, they'll play the game anyway. And it'll be no different than not playing at all aside from sperg autists on /v/ who white knight the industry.

>>386873523
You should know by now no one actually clicks links posted or reads anything NOT on 4chan.
I'm pissed about the delay but all these people screaming DENUVO are why I hate being a PC gamer. I get lumped with these faggots.

>>386873451

It would take longer than two weeks to add DRM

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>>386873494
mouse made her.

>>386873697
>>386873663
And then when bad games sell well, they influence good games that would otherwise be worth buying either by shitty design choices like dumbing down the game or shitty business practices like adding lootboxes and microtransactions. So much for "voting for your wallet". Also Sega is not a small publisher and Sonic is not a niche franchise.

>>386873632
Gee, I dunno, why would a fucking game developer pay attention to or speculate regarding matters regarding programming?

>>386873734
>I get lumped with these faggots.

Be careful what you say. These faggots were the last ones to turn to when denuvo gets confirmed

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>PC bros BTFO
>So buttblasted that they shit up every Mania thread
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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>>386864060
Fuck outta here nigga, I said that

>>386873523
Why hasn't he clarified that then? He can't not realise the implications of tweeting about DRM rioght now.

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>>386873246
Man it's been a while since I've gotten a chance to post this.

>>386873896
I actually buy my games so denuvo doesn't matter to me.

>>386873894
>they influence good games that would otherwise be worth buying either by shitty design choices

>So much for "voting for your wallet".

What you've bitched about literally is voting anon. There are losers in elections. You're being outvoted because your good taste in games is a minority. And so resources are being shifted to consumers with bad taste.

>>386873895
>>>386873632
>Gee, I dunno, why would a fucking game developer pay attention to or speculate regarding matters regarding programming?

Gee, i dunno, why would a fucking programmer do a post like that right after sega announced buttfucking 1000s of customers of a platform related to drms in the first place?

>>386873973

Whitehead seems to use his twitter like once maybe every three days.

>>386873440
>The gaping hole in your rhetoric is that many people buy bad games, bad games continued to be made even when they are heavily pirated. And buying games sold under shitty business practices just encourages those shitty practices.
So what you're saying is that it makes no difference whether or not pirates buy games because it doesn't matter if they want to contribute to the people who made it? Even though you were saying a while ago that we should definitely buy the game to support the developers?

They're implementing DRM so nobody can steal the levels probably or modify the engine. Whats hilariously Ironic is Taxman and Stealth hacked sega games for years, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, the don't want anybody hacking their games. Isn't that cute?

>>386873304
Delaying their game and adding DRM does not encourage more people to pay for their products. Sales and quality have little causation with each other, and your concept of "sales feedback" is inherently flawed to begin with since it excludes anyone choose not to buy the game even if it was for a legitimate reason and they're part of the target audience.

>>386873973
not to mention he tweeted it right around the stream

>>386873894
>Also Sega is not a small publisher and Sonic is not a niche franchise.
Much smaller and much more nice than it used to be, especially considering Mania is a $20 digital only classic fest. I want the game to be successful, anon. I have been excited for this game since it was first revealed and I don't want it to flop over dump corporate politics like this, I want there to be a Mania 2 down the road, or other games like it. If you are interested in the game, please show your support.

>>386874039
>I actually buy make games two weeks after release anyway so denuvo doesn't matter to me.

That's what you meant right?

>>386874096

Because the article came out today and has been getting a lot of attention?

>>386873613
>Well that's what you get
But I'm getting it on console.

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feels good being a PS4bro and seeing PCfags getting BTFO.

>m-muh mods
>i-i-it's only a 12 hour difference! the mods are worth the wait!!
bwahahaha


>sweet theme
>sweet avatars
>sweet midnight release date
>sweet share play
>no DRM

WE WIN AGAIN!!!

>>386874145
Anon you're confusing me with the other guy.

>>386873395

This.

Why do I get the feeling the people saying "I'm not going to buy it now because of this!", were never planning on actually buying it in the first place?

>>386874273
Well good for you

This game is shit anyways, there are better romhacks and fangames on the market. All hype is lost, they left out any levels I even cared about so they can eat shit, and on top of that they add DRM???

No Sonic Team, just no, you can fuck off. You lost my respect forever on this one. I hope you rot in hell.

>>386874291
So what happens when Sonic Forces launches without any bullshit and sells more than Sonic Mania?

>>386874081
>. You're being outvoted because your good taste in games is a minority. And so resources are being shifted to consumers with bad taste.

Thank you for proving my point. You cannot "outvote" the casuals because you don't have enough purchasing power to override them making "vote with your wallet" a meaningless platitude.

>>386874291
Fuck off Sonygro

>>386874328
Keep telling yourself that. People can never change their opinion because of fuckups.

>>386874118
If he so much as glanced at the replies to that tweet he'd see what people think he means, if I were him I'd immediately clarify what I was talking about.

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>>386874395
it won't. only live 1% are cancelling their preorders. it's a drop in the bucket for Sega.

>>386874401
So in the next election we should not vote at all, since a single vote makes no difference.

>>386874273
That doesnt count...

...but i REALLY wish it does.

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>>386874395
>Sonic Forces gets a 2 month delay for PC

>>386874150
Yes I'm sure this was entirely their decision to implement DRM at the last second and not some old out of touch Japs.

>>386874536
How many people are pre ordering Mania though?

>>386874198
>Much smaller and much more nice than it used to be,
No it isn't. Sega is a large Japanese publisher and Soinc the Hedgehog is literally their biggest property. If the game flops over corporate politics you have nobody to blame but Sega. Don't come crying at pirates for not supporting the game, "supporting" the devs and the future of the franchise is a false, self-fellating idea to begin with.

It takes longer than two weeks to add DRM, and ensure it's working and that it hasn't broken the game into an unplayable state, people. I get being worried but use your brains.

>>386874328
>Why do I get the feeling the people saying "I'm not going to buy it now because of this!", were never planning on actually buying it in the first place?

It's a psychological defense mechanism

I have one too. I get the feeling that gamers are entitled babies and the urge to suck dicks in a glory hole

>>386874625
>"supporting" the devs and the future of the franchise is a false, self-fellating idea to begin with.
Says the dumb out-of-touch fatalist :)

Nothing matters so why try? Why support anything? Nothing needs my support, or my money. Let the industry rot, who gives a fuck. I don't care about it. I never liked games anyway.

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>>386873451
>forcing pirates to buy the game instead of pirating hurts the sales

>>386874742
>I get the feeling that gamers are entitled babies and the urge to suck dicks in a glory hole
Whatever floats your boat.

>>386874567
If you don't live in a swing state then yes your vote in the general election is pointless.

in the grand scheme of things your decision to purchase a game is worth less and is less meaningful than your political vote making this entire false comparision idiotic.

>>386874401
>You cannot "outvote" the casuals because you don't have enough purchasing power to override them making "vote with your wallet" a meaningless platitude.

Yeah. But it's not meaningless, you just assumed "vote with your wallet" means you will always win. It really means the whims of a minority doesn't determine the fate of the majority, no matter how much better you think it would be.

>>386874567
Not him but it doesn't matter in my state. I voted republican in a blue state and guess what my vote didn't matter

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HEY HEY HEY, why are we all arguing? So it's backed up for another 2 weeks, no biggie, right? Let's all sit back, listen to some music, and blast through the 2 weeks by playing some good old Sonic!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb8egxYT-ug

>>386874328
They weren't. That's why they keep going on about how the DRM is bad. Now they might have to actually buy the game or wait longer than the delay to have it cracked.

>>386874836
Why live if we're all dying anyway?

Here's what Sega should actually do:
>Release the game on the date originally intended
>Release a cracked version themselves that has an IP logger in it
>Pursue legal action over the pirates they're worried about

All's well that ends well.

>>386874826
>Sucking dicks on a boat

Even better skipper

>>386874813
Look at the steam forums of all the users canceling their preorder. Sure those few hundred pirates are worth protecting yourself over the literal thousands of real consumers getting upset they are getting treated like shit for no reason

>>386875006
people would just find out and tell everyone to avoid that crack

>>386875108
Yeah but some would take a hit and people would be suspicious of all future cracks. If I were a developer I'd release a crack with ransomware in it.

>>386874904
It matters if enough people think the same way you do. If pirates don't make a relevant demographic, companies would be trying so hard to stop piracy.

>>386874778
Or maybe I'm just a realist. You are a dumb, delusional and out-of-touch if you think your decision to purchase a video game amounts to anything more than simply buying a product. Acting like your purchase of a video game is such a huge support and so important that it'll drive the course of the industry is beyond self-fellating. The industry in its current state deserves to rot, it doesn't deserve your support and it certainly doesn't' deserve our care. Don't conflate caring about the industry, the aparatuss designed to make as much money for as little effort as possible, with my actual love of games.

Why the fuck are we talking about politics?

>>386875208
>wouldn't

>>386874923
And let's post some ancient memes too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMPXBq97HCw

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>>386871786
>you shouldn't be allowed an opinion on the state of the industry since you don't contribute to it

t. industry cuckhold

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>>386875006
>legal action over individuals pirating software
Not even fucking Microsoft does it.

>>386875265
>The industry in its current state deserves to rot
It got here because of passive idiots like you who refuse to support the good games you like. You made your bed, lie in it. You don't love games.

>>386875265
Y-You're getting scary, senpai.

Are all your lives that dull and boring that you can't wait a fucking extra week for a game?

Man, Sonic Team is getting some heavy backlash on their twitter right now. I think we might not see a Mania 2, boys