Arthas/Death Knight on horse is the greatest flaw in Warcraft

I only just remembered the cinematic with his father.
Did seriously no one ever notice that his paladin armor become spiky/edgy? Did no one notice his glowing misty sword/eyes? Or (if WoW is to be believed) the fact that apparently his Captains are undead?

>>386858147
No one had experienced Death Knights before and they were all wearing hoods to hide any strange features. Arthas himself probably would have just been written off as being ragged and beaten from his expedition in the north. The sword was pretty spoopy though.

>>386858147
magic is such a common thing in Azeroth that even a magical bird shifting into a wizard during a political meeting didn't make the king even flinch.

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>>386857507
>skeletal horse
>horns

>>386858147
It just looks like he looted some upgrades off some Ork. The only giveaway is his Paleness, since nobody can read Runes

I don't like how in wc3 the mounted heroes never ever acknowledge their mounts or never dismount for certain missions. it's so immersion breaking for artha's to enter underground 'alone' but with his horse in that one mission as well as tyrande stealthily riding a fucking tiger or thrall being all animal lover but giving no fucks for his unnamed wolf.
id rather they all going on foot.

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>>386857507
>didnt play wc2

Why didnt the king have guards that can stop someone from executing him on his own fucking throne?

>>386858147
>his Captains
DESPAIR

SO DELICIOUS

>>386857507
What I want to know is why arthas serves the loch king? Is he being mind controlled or what? I'm always curious about how self aware he is

>>386863948
Frostmourne stole his soul

>>386863594
I think you can see them leaving in the cinematic. The king was having a heart-to-heart with his son, as far as anyone knew. Arthas was even kneeling before him.

>>386864082
What does that have to do with serving the lich king? The whole human campaign was about getting revenge on the undead for killing his countrymen, clearly the lich king is to blame not some random dreadloRd

>>386863948
Probably the weakest part of the plot. Arthas takes Frostmourne because he wants to save his kingdom at any cost and the cost ends up being the kingdom that he was trying to save?

>>386863948
>Is he being mind controlled or what?
pretty much, just worded differently. Frostmourne binded his soul to Ner'zhul

>>386857507
Almost all of the models and textures in WC3 are top tier what are you talking about.

>>386864491
it's like poetry it rhymes...

>>386864473
The Helm of Domination and Frostmourne are extensions of the Lich King

You didn't find it oddly convenient that there was an evil runeblade and evil helmet just sitting around in the frozen asshole of Azeroth? When the Lich King was, until Arthas put the hat on, just an angry orc in an icecube?

>>386858612
>No one had experienced Death Knights before
lol wut
The second war made those pretty infamous

>>386864473
As far as anyone knew, Malganis was the one behind the plague of undeath
It wasn't until after he took Frostmourne that Arthas found out the truth, and at that point he was already a servant of the Lich King

>>386858612
http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Death_knight_(Warcraft_II)

>>386864748
>>386864768
I'm just curious about how self aware he is

>2017
>still no WCIIIII

>>386865126
Wciiii would be terrace under nu blizzard just forget about it

>>386864565
I am talking about design. I wanted Arthas/Death Knight (especially Arthas) on foot. Don't like the horse at all.

>>386858147
Falric and Marwyn are two of the best side characters they've created in the series. Also, they just returned from a prolonged expedition north, it's not unreasonable to think he either found/looted it or had it crafted for the campaign or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOoRB8ov-rw

>>386865443
Castle fight red pulled me on mortars I almost never used them in melee

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>>386865374
>"Sir, if I may. I'm... well... I would rather be hacked into a thousand pieces than turn into one of them undead."

>>386865317
Death knights in mounts were kinda iconic, why would they remove their mounts?

>>386866159
can you even be a medieval style knight without a horse?

>>386864764
>>386864960
Wasn't the first batch of death knights completely different from what we got in w3?

purging stratholme was a mistake?

>>386865317
The horse adds to his character. It's the same horse he's been riding for years and it continues to serve him in death. It even has one of the most iconic WoW tracks named after it.

S Y M B O L I S M

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https://discord.gg/u6uGR43
Join our populated wc3 discord, we still host and play games almost every day.

>>386867707
Uther and Jaina left him with no fucking options whatsoever, he was right in what he did, he should've just calmed down afterwards but at that point it was either revenge or despair for him. Everyone fucking left him and pretended they are the good guys. FUCK Uther, he's a shitty hypocrite and so is Jaina.

>>386867932
Except Invincible was buried in Tirisfal until he dug it up and stuck wings on it for the ICC patch

>>386867440
kinda sorta, they were still polar opposites of paladins, evil knights riding horses and using evil magic. Their power just came from demonic energies instead of unholy magic (and what is even the difference between demonic and unholy energies?)

>>386857507
It's a callback to the WC2 death knights.

>>386868026
WoW is not canon.

>captcha is broad knights
Fitting for wow and all the ridiculous pauldrons

>>386868064
unholy is given by the lich king, whose powers come from a demon; so i guess unholy is watered down demonic magic?

>>386868485
Is it watered down if demons were afraid of the Scourge? I still got this feeling that the Lich King was basically one of the more overpowered villains that just got fucked by

>lol light plot armor

>>386868485
I think we are thinking harder about this than anyone at Blizzard did.

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>>386868064
Fel magic is its own "element" and the antithesis of Arcane magic

Necromantic magic is meddling with the spirits of the dead, which is its own separate thing

>>386868232
>WoW is not canon.
nice head canon

>>386869015
The best actually, thank you.

I'll take headcanon over Green Jesus dindunuffin

>>386868912
>undead is its own sphere

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What bothered me is that Frostmourne, and by association the Lich King's armor, are all demonic in origin.

While they establish that the LK and Scourge are products of Kil'jaeden in WC3 and TFT, aside from the battle at Mt. Hyjal (which was in WC3 anyway), there are almost zero references to this connection in WoW.

They treat the Scourge and the Legion like they were never on thresame side of the conflict, making zero references to pre-Arthas events at all.

Not to mention, Ner'zhul gets the complete shaft, being defeated mentally by Arthas (wat) in the pre-Wrath book, and getting sideshow actor treatment in WoD, despite Ner'zhul having a much more important role than Gul'dan (until later).

Then there's the "there must always be a Lich King" trash. They insinuate that somehow the Scourge are more dangerous without the direct influence of the Lich King which is pretty much in conflict with the entire existence of the Forsaken, you know, those scourge knocked free from the Lich King's control?

It made Wrath probably the worst expac of WoW storyline wise and why if they ever do a WC4 or worse, a WoW 2, I basically want all of WoW's storylines retconned/erased.

Then again, I don't trust nu-Blizz writers to make a compelling story either given their shit treatment of an AU timeline in WoD so i guess we're fucked either way.

>>386868912
But what doth life (life, life, life)?

>>386865094
He is entirely self aware and knows exactly what he is doing. He knows he is a slave to the Lich King, he just doesn't give a shit because no soul

>>386870739
The real question to ask is why Kil'Jaeden gave Ner'zhul the tools he needed to free himself and break free from the Legion's control. Frostmourne to choose a champion, and break the FT. The helm to merge with his champion and become a godlike entity.

>>386871483
Despite that he retains certain qualities from before he became a slave. When he first sees Tichondrius he tries to kill the shit out of him because he thinks he's Mal'ganis.

>>386863948
The way it was shown in WC3 was that he was clearly mind-controlled/replaced. Since I have never played WoW I don't know what shit excuse of lore they have there.

>>386871774
Frostmourne used to be sealed in the ice together with the rest of the armor. Ner Zhul broke the ice and had his servant carry away the blade. All of that was his own magic

>>386871774
The dread lords and arcamond were supposed to deal with all of that

>supposed to become powerful with frostmorne in hand
>WC3 Death Knight is considerably worse than Paladin

>>386871994
You fucking wot m8? DK is in the top 3 most broken heroes in w3.

>>386871994
>Arthas in HU9 with Frostmourne can solo the mission.
>Arthas in UD1 with Frostmourne will die to three footmen

Really fires up the furnaces.

Real talk. Which warcraft game would be considered the best? Personally I have to go with WC2 which improved on the gameplay that WC1 had but didn't go bad ways with the lore that WC3 did.

>>386871994
DK is better then paladin, death coil is better then holy light because it has a greater range of use, death pact is better then Shield, the auras are pretty much the same, only the ulties are debatable

>>386872106
Not even close, all the UD heros are just trash in comparison. Blade master/ demon hunter/ archmage / mountain king/ panda/ are better then he is just off the top of my head

>>386872153
>playing on easy/normal

>>386872318
wc3 is the best

>>386864491
Watch the Wrath trailer and listen to the words being said and the actions being made at the same time.

>>386867440
Paladins = Knight + Priest
WC2 DK = Knight + Warlock
WC3 and on DK = Knight + Necromancer/Litch

>>386867942
So when do you guys play games?

>>386872435
He'll solo it on hard too.

It's pretty easy. Just pop DS and ignore units while killing buildings.

>>386868026
The first thing Arthas does after killing his father is resurrect Invisible, hence why he' riding a horse after he becomes a Death Knight.

>>386872665
They just rebuild them instantly?

>>386872736
>Invincible
God damnit.

>>386872342
>>386872106
>broken
DK is average, pretty much everyone shits on UD in general, DK is their only choice of first hero because other heroes are even worse with Dread and Crypt Lords being respectively worst and second worst heroes in the game. DK also happens to be a STR hero with no crowd control abilities, so he fits no good roles. Most of the early game best he can do is buzz around the enemy trying to creepjack with coil while the ghouls creep on their own. Shits annoyingly micro intensive too

>>386872318
W3 or possibly Vanilla WoW before major lore characters started being slaughtered and dragged through the mud.

I'm not sure how much of the WoW thing is driven by nostalgia, but I really liked the vanilla zones and their quests / stories.

Then TBC started killing everyone and WOTLK killed my soul with THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING and Anub'arak being relegated to the shortest dungeon in the game followed by the shortest raid.

Any shreds of hope I had for Warcraft lore died with that.

Why did the Lich Kang wake up in WotLK

>>386872768
Just kill acolytes who try. They die in like two hits since a well equipped Arthas should do about 110 chaos damage.

>>386872909
Did you see how fucking huge ICC is and all the fortifications that surround Icecrown? In Frozen Throne it was just a glacier.

>>386870739
>What bothered me is that Frostmourne, and by association the Lich King's armor, are all demonic in origin.
Only in the sense that a demon created it. It contains Nercomantic magic, not Fel.

>While they establish that the LK and Scourge are products of Kil'jaeden in WC3 and TFT, aside from the battle at Mt. Hyjal (which was in WC3 anyway), there are almost zero references to this connection in WoW.
Lich King broke free from the Burning Legion. He did the whole summoning of Archimonde to not raise suspicions, while hatching his own plans during all of it. During Night Elf campaign, Arthas tells Illidan about the Skull of Gul'dan, which was a major point in Burning Legions defeat.

>They treat the Scourge and the Legion like they were never on thresame side of the conflict, making zero references to pre-Arthas events at all.
They were when Kil'Jaeden watched Lich King carefully, but not anymore.

>>386872867
Anub'Arak was such a fucking cool character in TFT, I was mad they relegated him to a fucking literal who role. At least the best bro ever Kel Thuzad got a prominent role in Naxx. That guy deserves a medal for his loyalty.

>Back, you mindless ones! You shall not fall today, my king.

>>386872924
>chaos damage
Well there's your explanation, chaos damage was broken as fuck gimmick for the campaign units.

>>386872909
disregard >>386873121
I completely misread your post, I may have had a stroke.

>>386872909
He could smell the tendies.

>>386873260
>They were when Kil'Jaeden watched Lich King carefully, but not anymore.
Wasn't there even a scene when Archimonde came through, that pawned control of the LK off on the Dreadlords who were then either killed or enslaved by the scourge?

>>386873121
>>386873293
I just assumed you were memeing how loud the builders were and thats why he woke up

>>386872924
Sure thing dude

>>386872859
I never understood why people hated dread lord, good aoe, good aura, amazing ulti. I always used him when i had to play UD

>>386873537
kek, that might've been it actually. I imagine they had to move his throne with him sleeping on it too.

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Did Arthas do anything wrong up until the point where he got Frostmourne? He tried to do everything to stop the plague from spreading even if it meant taking extreme measures like purging Stratholm.

Uther and Jaina did absolutely nothing other than bitch and moan while their land was being pillaged and razed.

>>386863917
FEAR
SO EXHILARATING

>>386873537
No I literally read it as if he was asking "why did it take him so long from Frozen Throne to WotLK to act" The more I re-read the post the more I wonder how the fuck I read it like that.

>>386873768
He lied to his men and betrayed the mercs that faught for him, he should have forgotten this business and lead his people home.

Burning the ships was his event horizon as a character imo

>>386874176
The mercs were just dirty subhumans anyway.
Garithos would have been proud.

>>386873510
When Arthas returned from Kalimdor, the Dreadlords had taken control of the Scourge. King Arthas of Lordaeron desired to reign ocer his subjects, as was his birthright
Ironically, it was Sylvanas who did the most work for this, as Arthas had to depart for Icecrown

>>386874176
This, up to that point he was acting in his peoples best interest. Once he did that it was less about saving his people, and more about his vendetta against Mal'Ganis.

>>386874457
What always got me is how Muradin just let it happen, it was his dwarves too

>>386874176
>>386874457
The order to return home was retarded. The King, just like Uther and Jaina, was completely clueless about the Scourge. As long as Mal'Ganis was alive, the Scourge remained a problem, and with Arthas being so close to killing him, this was the best choice of action.

>>386857507
No. Him on a horse is not a flaw. His flaw is that he doesn't have Chaos Damage despite him having it in the final mission of the Alliance Campaign after getting Frostmourne.

>>386874680
Yeah that part was a little strange. And it isn't even like Muradin would necessarily be subordinate to Arthas. Sure they were friends, but Muradin is of equal, or arguably higher social/political status as Arthas as he is a prince as well and older then Arthas.

>>386874967
Him going to Northrend was a mistake. Everything before that was totally fine since he was delt a very very shitty hand and had to make do with it while Uther and Jaina were covered in snot.

>>386874967
Except Mal'ganis was just a giant red herring.

Arthas was a dupe.

>>386874967
Obviously hindsight is 50/50, but it literally wasn't. The whole thing was a trap from the start to turn Arthas into a Death Knight so he could return home and usurp the throne from his father, and throw all of Lordaeron into chaos, making the march into Quel'Thalas trivial to revive Kel'Thuzad who could then summon Archimonde.

>>386875138
Mal'Ganis was on the ropes. Arthas had to press his advantage and not let Mal'Ganis replenish his forces. Since there wasn't a cure to the Plague, pursuing him was the best option.

>>386875241
Not from what Arthas knew.

>>386875502
No fucking shit.

>>386875638
True that Arthas was operating on the best information he had, but ultimately he played perfectly into the Lich King's hand. Mal'ganis even says as much at the end.

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>>386858147
>Travel up North
>Not expecting Nordiac Barbaric armor when returning home

>>386875638
>Mal'Ganis was on the ropes.
He literally wasn't, he was luring Arthas to Frostmourn. Mal'Ganis wasn't retreating, he was taunting Arthas to follow him to Northrend which he fell for like the autistic child he was. When your countrymen are still getting ravaged by an undead scourge, the last thing you want to do is split your armies which is why the King recalled him.

>>386872654
seems to be random, just join and ask in chat

>>386875993
After Stratholme the Undead went quiet in Lordaeron. Medivh confirms it in the interlude, and it's why you have to regather the Cult in UD1. Uther had the armies recalled out of pure pettiness.

>>386875929
It's funny, because Mal'Ganis also played perfectly into the Lich King's hand. Arthas says that at the end, too.

>>386875993
I'm talking from the point of view of Arthas.
>When your countrymen are still getting ravaged by an undead scourge, the last thing you want to do is split your armies which is why the King recalled him.
There was no cure from the Plague. As far as Arthas knew, the only way to stop it is to nip it in the bud, that is kill whoever is responsible for it, and Arthas thought it was Mal'Ganis.

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>the cinematic where Arthas returns from Northrend

Arthas is one of the best characters from this shitshow and they didn't even bother to give a cool ending

>>386876596
>maxing ambient volume in WoW and walking through the same hallways as Arthas did after returning from Northrend
chills

>>386876523
Well the last laugh in War3 goes to the Lich King ultimately.
The Legion gets fucked. Illidan gets fucked. Lordaeron gets fucked. Ner'zhul goes free and gets a sweet new human body.

Until WoW ruins and retcons everything.

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How much do you love Maiev?

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>>386876762
It's ok he's gonna get it in the new HS expansion!

>>386857507
OP's post on /v/ is the greatest flaw in 4chan. Just so bad to look at.

>>386876824
Very underrated character

>>386876804
didn't Ner'zhul get rekt by lich kang/arthas or is that already WoW territory

>>386877037
TFT ends with him/them literally saying

>NOW, WE ARE ONE

cue sad, melancholic music that completes the downer ending. That's it.

>>386876523
>As far as Arthas knew, the only way to stop it is to nip it in the bud, that is kill whoever is responsible for it, and Arthas thought it was Mal'Ganis.
That is true, but I think his actions and the lengths he went to stay in Northrend after being recalled show more obsession then rational thought. He had a finite force in Northrend to deal with an enemy force of unknown size and power, and his response is to completely cut-off his men from re-supply, reinforcements or an ability to retreat. Then instead of providing some impassioned speech about protecting his country and why they had to stay in Northrend, he betrayed the mercenaries that helped him and lied about how the ships were destroyed.

>>386863948

The whole soul stealing thing confused me more with Windrunner. Arthas steals her soul so she has to serve him but she still openly bitches about it and defies him later IIRC.

>>386877037
>>386877132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2C_7QLwsnc

Just watch it yourself. WoW shat on everything previous games established.

>>386877037
That's book territory. WC3 ended with Arthas, at his weakest, defeating Illidan, at his strongest, walking up the Icecrown and putting on the Helm of Domination.

>>386876804
>Until WoW ruins and retcons everything.
how did WoW ruin and recton everything about the Lich King?

>>386877316
I meant more in general. Stuff like the defeat of the Legion in War3 being utterly meaningless, ect.

>>386877258

To be fair, he has the capability to regain his power on the last mission.

>>386877248
>Arthas steals her soul so she has to serve him
I think there is a difference between being resurrected by him, and having your soul stolen by frostmourn. The people he cuts down with frostmourn get their soul stolen, empowering the blade (Why Uther/his Father can be seen as apparitions from it and how he ultimately gets defeated when the blade is broken.) When they are resurrected he simply gains a hive-mind like control over their minds, that can be broken by either enough force of will or by his grasp over them weakening. (As with Sylvanas, The Forsaken, and The Knights of the Ebon Blade)

>>386877547
As far as I remember Arthas starts with level 1 or 3 in the last mission.

>>386877783

He starts at level 1 but he says the Lich King gave him the last bit of power he had so he can grind his way back to 10 for that last mission.

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>>386876596
>What are you doing, my son?

>>386877190
Your own people are being turned into mindless monsters that first kill their loved ones and then go on a killing rampage. A threat like this is not something you can ignore and let others worry about it. As Uther and Jaina at Stratholme, and later King Terenas with his order to return and Arthas' own men, who obeyed that order, proved, nobody knew what was at stake and nobody was willing to do anything about it. Arthas saw this as his duty, as the prince and as a paladin, to protect his people from this dark magic.
Arthas did everything right, and he wasn't the only one who played into the Lich King's hand. All of them did, with their inaction. That is what pushed Arthas that far.

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>>386864491

>>386864491
>anon discovers irony

>>386863594
You see Arthas's officers walk towards the throne room guards as he approaches Terenas, so I guess they just stared them down into submission.

>>386878254
Then why lie about why he destroyed the ships and betray the mercenaries if he was so fervent in his duty to his people? Because at that point it was no longer about his people, and his own personal vendetta against Mal'Ganis. And who is to say nobody else but Arthas was taking it seriously? I will agree the Culling of Strattholme was a necessary evil, but to be fair Uther's unwillingness to just blindly raze the city was just as logical. As you admit nobody really knew much about the plague at that point, so finding a cure was just as valid as assuming one couldn't exist.

>>386878254
Theoretically they were doomed no matter what they did, hence Medivh's warning.

>>386879117
Hot-shot princes. That's the way they are. He needed more discipline and lacked it. Even the other Paladins call him out on it in the 2nd Undead Mission and wondered why Uther even took Arthas in.

>>386872519
Wrath's trailer is pure kino.

>>386874176
t. muradin

>>386879580
Hell. MURADIN EVEN HELPED ARTHAS.

Why did they free Illidan in WC3 only to tell him to fuck off afterwards?

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>>386879117
> to be fair Uther's unwillingness to just blindly raze the city was just as logical

They had no way of dealing with the scourge other than flat out killing them. Yeah Arthas was cocky and impulsive, but he was right. Stratholme needed to be purged otherwise you'd just be supplying the scourge with more troops.

>>386879813
Because Malfurion is autistic and easily triggered by anything demonic.

>>386879813

Only Tyrandre wanted to free him and she didn't think he'd steal demon power. Furion wanted nothing to do with him.

>>386879813
Tyrande and Furion/Malfurion are biased dicks. The former didn't take responsibility while the latter is an autistic dolt of a druid that gets triggered by anything involving demons.

Hell, NElves in general are this. Poor Illidan wanted to be a hero to his people. Sure he's arrogant and such, but he was well-intentioned. He didn't deserve to be locked for 10K years in prison while all other males were sleeping.

>>386879913
>They had no way of dealing with the scourge other than flat out killing them.
But that doesn't mean automatically culling them was the right choice given what they knew at the time. It was just as valid, and a far more righteous (paladinly?) solution to attempt to quarantine the city and see if they could find the cure, and kill whatever undead attempted to break out. Could it have also been folly? by what we known now about the plague yes, but as a champion of the light the attempt should have been made.

>>386879813
Because he consumed demon powers, and the writers didn't bother to give Malfurion the capacity to ask why.

They kind of fixed this in the end, when Illidan told them he was trying to destroy the Lich King. They even punished Maiev for lying.

Then in WoW they ruin all of that and make Illidan go 'mad' and become a regular bad guy.

>>386876824
Draw some fan art of this bitch the other week, Maiev is a boss. I hope WOW didnt fuck her up, im semi interested in what her story ended up being but on the other hand i feel its best that i dont know

>>386880137
Arthas and Illidan share many similarities and similar fates as well. Well, I don't know how they raped his lore in Legion I suppose so I won't speak about that.

>>386880137
>He didn't deserve to be locked for 10K years in prison
Pretty sure he did, I forget what he did i the War of the Ancients, but I think he had a pretty big hand in the demonic invasion. I do agree after his freedom he was well-intentioned at least partly. Illidan just wanted power for the sake of becoming stronk. At least as he was portrayed he didn't have any aspirations of becoming some grand conqueror, or tyrannical ruler, he just wanted to be really fucking powerful.

>>386880413
In TBC it ended with

>the hunter is nothing without its prey

It was actually a pretty cool end but I hear they resurrected her character in Legion to fuck her up just like everone else. For fucks sake.

>>386879117
He lied because he needed his men to trust him. I doubt they would follow someone who sabotaged their escape. At that point his army showed that they weren't willing to ignore King's orders in order to save Lordaeron, so he saw deception as the only way to keep their trust and morale.

Again, I'm looking at this from Arthas' point of view. Uther's and Jaina's unwillingness to kill innocent civilians is understandable. Arthas knew what had to be done, and from his point of view, Uther and Jaina were useless. They abandoned him, and by extension the country, when he needed them most.

How long are you going to look for a cure? Every moment wasted is your army weakened and army of the Scourge strengthened.
Stratholme had huge population. After Arthas killed everyone there, it was a big blow to the Scourge and Arthas had to take the opportunity to take the fight to the weakened enemy's territory.

>>386880503
>I don't know how they raped his lore in Legion
He is to legion as Kerrigan became to Starcraft: Space Jesus.

>>386877037

WoW territory.

There's a lot of contradictory information about whether the Lich King is solely Arthas or a combo of both. In the books, there is allegedly a sequence in which DK Arthas overpowers his last vestiges of humanity and Ner'zhul in a mental battle in the years between TFT and the WoW expansion. But even so, he still acknowledges things that Ner'zhul did as a shaman as his own deeds, which is confusing.

Then there's the DK artifact quest in Legion in which you "tame" the shards of Frostmourne and you see an Echo of Ner'zhul tormenting an Echo of Arthas, who then curses at you for ruining his plans. Then there's Echoes of the old Lich King that spawn occasionally as you quest about in Legion who says very ominous things about what may be happening to the DKs after the Legion is repelled.

>>386880578
He had a similar illness to the blood elves in that he craved magic. I don't remember if it was really explored if it was an actual condition or just an addiction.

>>386880725
>what may be happening to the DKs after the Legion is repelled

Wotlk 2 confirmed as a buffer between Legion and Sargeras final showdown?

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>>386880137
No, ilidan wanted power. He thought he was gods gift to NEs and everything he said and did was right. He thought if he had enough power he could subjugate everyone and be a benevolent king who sets everything right. And by DESIGN everything he did happened to be "right" because if he was ever "wrong" he would just be your typical villain.

He is basically the blizzard version of DR.Doom

>>386880137
Illidan was a dick and I dont get why people like him so much. He helped the Burning Legion and then did nothing but being a self centered asshole. And trying to rewrite his betrayal as part of a larger plan is bullshit to please fans. Maiev should have killed Illidan and Demonhunters as part of the Alliance/Horde is lore crap so bad even Metzen would shake his head

>>386880721
As I said before, WOW is not canon. Fuck this piece of shit. Their entire """"plot"""" relies on retconing and raping whatever is left of the franchise. It's unsightly

>>386880503
If it weren't for the whole fighting between them and Arthas being completely evil puppet of the Lich King, then they'd be drinking buddies.

>>386880578
Magic craving + he wanted to create a new Well of Eternity because he thought it would be useful in case the Legion would return + he switched sides left and right (but in the end it was all to help the NElves).

Also there is nothing wrong in wanting to become stronger. Furion/Malfurion never understood his brother.

>>386880725
So at this point Arthas as the Lich King wasn't even a fusion of both and a amalgam of personality elements and memories?

>>386880651
>it was a big blow to the Scourge and Arthas had to take the opportunity to take the fight to the weakened enemy's territory.
He had no way of knowing that they were weakened or was a big blow to them. Again Mal'Ganis taunted him to follow him to NR, he was flying blind into a situation thanks to his immature fury. No matter his intentions he was wrong both in the moment and in hindsight. Disregarding the advice of your superiors (Uther) his friend (Jaina) and eventually the command of his father (The King) is immature, ego driven and really just incompetence. Then to cut your forces off from re-supply, reinforcements, and their only avenue of retreat is just a pants on head retarded move as a military commander especially given the unknown nature of the enemy he faced.

>>386880578
>>386880748
I think all of this was already retconned, but Illidan had white eyes, as opposed to yellow like the rest of them, and in Night Elf society white eyes were a sign of greatness. So him being constantly reminded that he's supposed to be extremely powerful shaped him to be arrogant and power-hungry.

>>386881004
Maiev is an unsung hero who was fucked over by the autismo duo of Tyrande and Malfurion.

>>386857507
What I find kind of dumb is that it's never explained why Frostmourne is even needed.

Someone is literally just like "yeah Frostmourne's a pretty good sword" and that's enough for Arthas to disregard his relatively successful campaign to go hunting for it.

>>386881225
>Also there is nothing wrong in wanting to become stronger. Furion/Malfurion never understood his brother.
Oh I agree, I was intending that to be in his favor and not a reason to demonize him

>>386880413
She really hasn't changed much at all.

>>386880651
>>386880651
To bad as a paladin and young prince none of that was his call to make. he thought he was smarter then everyone else and listened to no one, Uther was his master and arthas didn't learn a single fucking thing from him.

Arthas's point of view is fogged by hubris

>>386881347
At that point nothing about his campaign was successful. He knew they're absouletly fucked and decided to grasp at that legend because he ran out of options.

>>386881272
>I think all of this was already retconned, but Illidan had white eyes, as opposed to yellow like the rest of them, and in Night Elf society white eyes were a sign of greatness. So him being constantly reminded that he's supposed to be extremely powerful shaped him to be arrogant and power-hungry.
Actually I think that is the story that retconned his previous backstory, replacing it with the wankery that explains why Illidan is some sort of messiah in Legion.

>>386881570
The eye thing was in War of the Ancient books.

>>386881426
He was right to disregard politicians. Terenas ignored Medivh's warning (so did Arthas to be fair) and he was just sitting on his ass pretending to be useful and benevolent. It cannot be emphasized enough that Arthas was left with a giant mess on his hands and everyone turned against him when he needed their help. If they at least actually did something useful on their own it would be understandable but NOPE they just fucked off and watched his downfall without moving a finger.

>>386881225
>So at this point Arthas as the Lich King wasn't even a fusion of both and a amalgam of personality elements and memories?

Officially, the devs said it was Arthas only, but there's a lot of contradicting information. I just try not to think about it too hard since they don't really seem very invested in consistency.

>>386865317
Death knights are supposed to give off that '4 horsemen' vibe, but yes I agree, I preferred heroes that were on foot.

I remember playing TFT campaign for the first time as a kid and being really disappointed that arthas' model hadnt changed or was unmounted.

>>386881738
Oh well in that case it wasn't retconned then. There is a whole flashback quest chain in legion building up to why Illidan is the chosen one and that was a pretty big part of it

>>386881803
He didnt just disregard politicians tho. He also disregarded his superior, the whole Paladin order, his on/off girlfriend, common sense, many soldiers, Medivh even Muraddin. The only folks he listened to were people like Mal'Ganis, Ner'zhul or Kel'thuzad.

>>386881803
>Terenas
>Politition
Sure he is one by virtue of being King, but he fought and commanded the forces of Lordaeron during the Second War. He is a very sound military commander. You give Arthas' own intelligence far too much credit, without giving any to the people who surrounded him.

>>386881803
>He was right to disregard politicians.

No he wasn't, the kirin thor was right from the start. King tharanis even started investigating the plague thats why arthas was sent to the kings road in the 1st place. If they stayed and consolidated their power and got help from all their allies they could have send a massive invasion fleet to northrand. The plague and the cult of the damned was already uprooted by the time arthas came back as a deathknight.

>>386881831
What bothered me as a kid was how tiny arthas had to become to fit on his horse

>>386881241
Stratholme has population of thousands. Killing all of them had to be a noticeable blow to the Scourge, at least from Arthas' pov. When you're fighting a force that literally steals your troops, every moment wasted is lowering the chance of winning. Arthas had to act fast.
The passive approach of others and ignoring the only person who had information about the enemy was incompetent.

>>386881426
Uther showed that he's unwilling to act.

>>386882269
This wasn't a conventional enemy. The Dead don't starve, they don't tire and they replenish their numbers by killing you. Terenas' experience meant shit in Third War.

>>386882269
Well, what did Uther or Jaina do at that time to stop the Scourge? What was their master plan to save the kingdom? As far as I know it went something along the lines

>let's wait and hope for the best

>>386882594
I already said his voyage to Northrend was a mistake but I think he would just break down after Stratholme if he couldn't pursue vengeance. At that point it wasn't even hubris, it was just his way to cope.

What i dont understand is how the forsaken even exist? I get that powerful beings like silvanis and arthas get to keep their personality but how does every skeleton / zombie get to become a person again? Banshees are ghosts so it makes sense but how does a brainless zombie with no soul get to have a conversation with you about stealing pumpkins

>>386880413
Honestly not that bad, in the latest dungeon her and illidan are fighting together, even though she still thinks he should be locked up, they have some good banter.

They probably will go the 'maiev is tsundere for illidan' later down the line though.

>>386882761
You are jumping between taking Arthas' point of view at the time and looking at things from hindsight. You are also giving absolutely no credit to the people who disagreed with him. Admittedly through the games world we are ONLY given Arthas' POV and plans but if you are being fair you have to infer somethings based on the other characters intelligence, and they aren't literally settling for 'doing nothing.' I agree with you that both with the given information at the time, and with what we know now culling Strath was a valid decision, if arguably contrary to how he should act as a Paladin. Everything following that however is his own hubris and incompetence taking over rational thought.
>>386882796
See above, while we aren't shown much else if you are being charitable you would assume Jaina and Uther had some sort of solution that just didn't involve razing the city. Sure it was an inevitability, but especially Uther (and by extension Arthas as well) as a Paladin has the responsibility as a champion of justice and the light to exhaust all other options before resorting to slaughter.

>>386883245
1. Ressurect a lot of stuff
2. Lich King weakens, so do the Necromancy
3. Bones either collapse, or the soul surfaces
4. Lots of the non zombie/skeleton undead is rather strong

>>386883518
I dislike Paladins for this reason. Their code binds them from doing what is reasonable. Uther failed his friend because of his dumb faith. I am 100% sure that things would've develop differently if they didn't abandon Arthas when he had to do something that mentally broke him.

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>>386881426
>Uther was his master

Arthas was heir to the throne, if I was Uther I'd keep my mouth shut, ranking paladin or not.

>>386883889
>Their code binds them from doing what is reasonable.
Arthas didn't even for a moment consider an option outside of culling the city. If anything Arthas was the one being unreasonable, because even if you disregard he was also a Paladin, he was also his peoples Prince. Why would he jump right to slaughter before considering anything else?

>>386884323
Because he saw first hand what happens with the infected and he already had to kill loads of them. He wanted to save the dignity of the people of Stratholme before they were raised and humiliated. At the same time it would save his own men because killing civilians is much easier than killing bloodthirsty undead.

>>386884009
I doubt the King would listen to his snot-nosed son, over the Grand Master of the Silver Hand, one of the greatest Paladins to ever live, a hero of the Second War, and the person he personally requested to train his son.

>>386883889
It didnt break him though, arthas has always been a rage'a'holic kid, its showed through in the black rock and roll mission

>>386884009
Thats why you would never be in Uther's position in the 1st place. Uther was rank 1 paladin and charged with arthas because of who he was

>>386865317
It's a callback to wc2 dk's

>>386884574
>At the same time it would save his own men because killing civilians is much easier than killing bloodthirsty undead.
You are just changing the kind of toll you are putting on them. I'v only been going by what is presented in RoC. In the CoT instance, Arthas makes it quite clear they are to slaughter every last man woman and child without even considering if they were tainted yet by the plague. There are also implications Arthas was already falling to the whispers of the LK, but that is a bit wishy-washy. Even not taking WoW into account that is still another valid reason to quarantine the city to try and save as many un-plagued citizens as possible. Really the more I think about it the less and less Arthas was at all justified in his decisions.

>>386884605
Arthas was a renowned warrior before the events of WC3 even took place, I wouldn't call him 'snot-nosed' just because he chose to talk down to Uther that one time.

>>386885040
>You are just changing the kind of toll you are putting on them.
Never finished that thought, I would argue it is far more detrimental to your forces morale to kill men women and children who are their countrymen (if plagued just not yet turned) as opposed to mindless zombies.

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>>386876596

>>386857507
I think a lot of models from older games looks really stupid if you look closer at it

>>386885286
It's not about morale, it's about living or dying (and by the way supplying your enemy with more force)

>>386883245
I'm pretty concerned about what the soul was doing while being dead in the first place. What if dead, good people are chilling out in heaven, then suddenly some dickass necromancer drags them right back into their dessicated bodies because Queen Bitch needs an army.

>>386877248
Sylvanas, like many undead, began separating from The Scourge once the Lich King started to lose power. His domination waned from them and they acquired a sense of individuality.

>>386885127
>a renowned warrior before the events of WC3
He was considered a prodigy as a paladin, and had proven himself a capable warrior in some minor conflicts, but he was hardly in the same realm of experience and expertise as Uther the Lightbringer. And as another anon had mentioned, his reputation among his fellow Paladins was less then exemplary as he had a reputation for being brash and impulsive.

>>386857507
>nolegs

>>386884605
I just wanna note that the Grand Master of the Silver Hand was fucking incompetent. He was at Stratholme, yet he still does nothing about it. He doesn't even send a spy with him to Northrend, and he's no where to be seen when Arthas returns to commit regicide.

In fact, he dies at Arthas' hand defending his dead king's ashes. A fitting end for a man who achieved literally nothing.

I would've talked back to him as well.

>>386883518
>looking at things from hindsight.
Which would those be?
I am not arguing that nobody else was doing anything. I am saying that Arthas though that they weren't doing anything, which they proved many times over.

>>386885040
If they'd let them turn, there'd be thousands of undead to fight. People are still people, not matter dead or not, it would still be mentally hard to kill them, probably not as much as when they're alive, but still. In addition to that, zombies are stronger and it is harder to kill them, than some random civilian.
A death of a living soldier means losing one of your own and giving one to the Scourge.

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>>386884323
>>386884574
Arthas sees his people as his possessions, thats why his vengeance on Malganis was so PERSONAL, it wasn't about justice for his people at all. If it was he would have returned home when the king sent for him. Arthas says is it himself if you click on him a few times "I should be king..." or to malganis "i would rather they die by MY hand them then let you have them". Arthas just puts on a facade of beign a good person, his mask always falls off the moment anyone disagrees with him or takes what is his. Fuck dude arthas even cucks kaiel and gloats about it after.

The lichking didn't pick arthas because he wanted to corrupt some prince he picked him because he knew Arthas was ALREADY a fucking cunt. Thats why his plan worked so perfectly

You guys missed the point completly

>>386877248
Sylvannas was forced to serve. She could still see what she was doing and could talk when allowed, but if she was given a command she had to act on it.

>>386885634
You can see the leg under the sword.

>>386885836
Don't you fucking compare Arthas to that piece of shit Griffith m8.

>>386885605
banshees were already individuals because they were literally chained souls, You had to posses other undead units like aboms and fiends because they were still mindless. Undead for the most part are just animated corpses like if someone was to animate a broom

>>386885450
You know I'm skeptical about how Blizzard will make the models look if there's a remaster. I like this but some of them seem a little more exaggerated than they should be. (Yes, I know thats unofficial WC remaster in pic)

>>386885424
>It's not about morale
Morale is everything in war. And there is also nothing to prove that their forces weren't entirely capable of quarantining Strath until at least the non-plagued citizens could be evacuated. Hell Arthas managed to raze the city with only a portion of his forces and no support from the Knights of the Silver Hand. With the full support of Lordareon's army it could have easily been accomplished.

>>386886175
That's actually made by blizzard for the SC2 map editor

>>386886215
Accomplished how? If we assume that some of the citizens were not yet infected for whatever reason, which is doubtful because it's not like they have supermarkets so they just eat that wheat, how do you actually separate the infected ones before they change? How can you protect the uninfected ones when probably most of their family and friends around them are infected? Arthas had a few hours to do purge the city, you can't evacuate it and ensure people are safe and checked for infection in that time.

>>386886356
Is it? I thought it was from warcraft remastered.. I haven't really touched SC2. They look bigger than they should be are they smaller in game?

>>386857507
the models all look shit when you zoom in on them, the game is from fucking 2003

don't you have anything better to do anon?

>>386885713
He commanded the paladins of the Silver Hand and nothing more, at least at that point. He had no authority over Arthas or his men outside of that, he also wasn't a personal guard of the King, and as far as everyone knew Arthas was a returning Hero.
>A fitting end for a man who achieved literally nothing.
He was literally a war hero of the second war. Pretty sure he is even a hero unit in WC2

>>386863917
DIS PEAR

SO DELICIOUS

I have restarted the WC3 campaign so many times over the years, but for some raisin I can never be assed to finish it completely.

>>386885836
>You guys missed the point completly
That is exactly the point i'v been trying to illustrate this entire time. He was a fool who fell right into the LK's trap.

>>386886905
Yeah but what you missed was the WHY, Arthas was evil from the get go

>>386867440
Yes, they were the souls of orc warlocks instilled in the corpses of human knights. Modern death knights are individuals who were reanimated or otherwise corrupted by the Lich King's power. Arthas, for example, doesn't explicitly die, but Frostmourne took his soul, which is basically a living death anyways.

>>386886645
So why the fuck doesn't he do anything? Isn't he supposed to be in charge of the security of the realm or anything?

He knew what was going on, he definitely should have kept his eyes on Arthas, rather than letting him go to Northrend completely unsupervised. He fucking sucks dude.

>>386886496
>Arthas had a few hours to do purge the city,
Source? not even being a smart-ass, but just going by the information provided into the game I don't think using the mission mechanics is a fair assessment of how much time they had to assess the situation. IIRC, the tainted grain had only just been distributed throughout the city, which could imply a great number of uninfected people were in the city. As far as how to set up some sort of CDC quarantine to check everyone out, im sure at the very least Priests and Paladins have the ability to sense the undead plague in people, even if they can't cure it.

All of that is irreverent to the point that Arthas didn't even consider it as an option, which as both a Prince and Paladin he should have, and if you go by the instance in WoW even made a point to NOT attempt to determine if a citizen was uninfected.

>>386887352
>Arthas was evil from the get go
I wouldn't say evil, just the most susceptible to corruption. I don't doubt that initially he was acting in good will, but it isn't a zero sum situation. He can have his cake and eat it too while trying to protect his people and capture glory for himself, just with the enemy he chose to fight knew how to exploit his aspirations for both, to the detriment of the former.

>>386887459
>He knew what was going on, he definitely should have kept his eyes on Arthas, rather than letting him go to Northrend completely unsupervised.
Probably because at the end of the day while he may be his babysitter, getting in open, physical conflict with your crown prince isn't a smart move. in that situation the only person with the true authority to grab Arthas by the ears and spank him is his father the king. Which is exactly what Uther was trying to do.

>>386887459
How does he not do anything? He saves arthas then he rats him out to the king and destroys the remained of the scourge and drives the cult into hiding by the time arthas comes back from his vaykay in northrend

>>386867942
What the fuck do you mean by
> still
It takes less than a minute to find an opponent on battle.net, or at most 2 minutes if you're skilled enough for the w3a ladder.

Are you a bunch of retards who think the game is dead or something?

>>386870739
>They treat the Scourge and the Legion like they were never on thresame side of the conflict, making zero references to pre-Arthas events at all.

They never REALLY were. Ner'zhul only ever did KayJay's bidding to bide time. And references have definitely been made in WoW to their previous relationship, namely through the relevant dreadlords.

>Not to mention, Ner'zhul gets the complete shaft, being defeated mentally by Arthas (wat) in the pre-Wrath book, and getting sideshow actor treatment in WoD, despite Ner'zhul having a much more important role than Gul'dan (until later).

Ner'zhul was never particularly interesting, having Arthas subsume him was a good decision.

>Then there's the "there must always be a Lich King" trash. They insinuate that somehow the Scourge are more dangerous without the direct influence of the Lich King which is pretty much in conflict with the entire existence of the Forsaken, you know, those scourge knocked free from the Lich King's control?

The forsaken are an incredibly small amount of individuals compared to the entirety of the scourge. It's sheerly a matter of numbers. A better question would be 'why didn't Arthas just let the scourge loose'

>>386888080
I'm not asking for open conflict, I'm asking for him to take his fucking job seriously and keeping an eye on this prince. Even if Arthas had been a good boy all along, he STILL should have sent spies with him to Northrend. He was the fucking heir to the throne after all.
>>386888149
Imagine that if he had gone to Northrend himself (or at least sent a spy), the king would still be alive at the end of the human campaign.

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MAN
WOMEN
AND CHILDREN
NONE WHERE SPARED THE MASTERS WRATH
YOUR [SPOILER] DEATH WILL BE NO DIFFERETN

>>386888446
>take his fucking job seriously and keeping an eye on this prince.
That literally isn't his job, his job is to train him as a Paladin, nothing more. Arthas has his own set of powers and responsibilities as Prince, so Uther's personal power over him is more a matter of respect then something ordained by the King, as shown by Arthas trying to command Uther to assist in the culling. Also where do you get that Uther, a Paladin, has spies? He is a Paladin that has command over Paladins.

>>386888446
>Imagine that if he had gone to Northrend himself (or at least sent a spy), the king would still be alive at the end of the human campaign.

How to send a message to and form nortrend:
Send a guy to fly there in a Zeppelin and personally tell everyone your message

Besides arthas wandered off into northrand no one knew what became of him, why would some spy know arthas was now in service to the lich king no one even knew existed.

>>386888614
EVERY MAN LIVES, NOT EVERY MAN TRULY DIES

>>386888786
He's in charge of a military organization presumably charged with keeping the realm safe. If he's not completely retarded, he'll keep an eye on the heir to the throne thank you very much. Of course he has fucking spies.
>>386888883
Magic.

>>386888786
Arthas waas sent to uther for training because teranis knew arthas was susceptible to corruption and hoped uthers teaching would rub off on him. It was more then just "teach my son to cast holy light".

>>386888080
>I don't doubt that initially he was acting in good will
I do, maybe arthas convinced himself he was doing it for his people but he was doing it for himself

>>386889247
>magic

yeah man thats why the king used a zeppelin, it still doesn't explain why anyone would suspect arthas of being a death knight and conspiring to murder the king.

>>386888187
/v/ only plays custom games

>>386863948
>>386864473
>>386864491
>OG Lich King hates the Burning Legion for tricking him into opening a portal to Draenor for them
>Arthas hates the Burning Legion because of Malganis
>They join forces, plan to turn Azeroth into undead so they can counter the Legion's magic and stop them once and for all

Arthas and Illidan are two sides of the same coin/

>>386889247
So what you are saying is that it is less reasonable to assume he doesn't have access to those things, or they are outside his powers/responsibilities as leader of the Silver Hand, or: one of the most revered men in the world after the death of Lothar and the disappearance of Turalyon, a proven and battle hardened veteran of the Second War, and one of the greatest Paladins to have ever lived, is actually secretly incompetent.

>>386889525
They used ocean going ships actually. And I'd be suspecting something is wrong with the dwarf mysteriously dies, or how about when he orders his men to burn said ships to prevent desertion.

>>386864491
And the ring would have caused boromir to destroy gondor, and anakin killed padme, and Hitler got Germany destroyed. There's a theme here. Use evil ends to achieve your objective and you often get an shitty result.

>>386890161
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Or that Blizzard can't write for shit. One of those. Literally all it took to save the king's life was one loyal man on that Northrend expedition.

>>386881738
The books where Illidan literally gave the Burning Legion a new route of approach in the future and another chance to corrupt the NElves with his fucking magic addiction?

Also, in that book being TWINS was the super "Destined for greatness" bit. And Knaak's OC Mary Sue was having half elf twins too.

>>386890329
Are you a retard? From this post im pretty much confirming you have no idea what youre talking about. Maybe you just read WOW lore on the wiki and never actually played wc3

>They used ocean going ships actually.
They literally didnt though, the emissary flew in on a zeppelin and told everyone the kings orders then flew away.
>And I'd be suspecting something is wrong with the dwarf mysteriously dies
Why? People die all the fucking time in warcraft and arthas didnt even murder him. "yo uther arthas maybe killed muradin i didnt see it go down and a lot of people died while we were fighting the undead but i think this means that arthas is going to kill the king and is actually working for the lich king even though i dont actually know who the lich king is"

>how about when he orders his men to burn said ships to prevent desertion.
he orders mercs to do it then kills the mercs so no one even knew

>>386891345
>so no one even knew
Sure wish the realm had a loyal spy on that expedition, huh?

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>>386857507
Glad you could make it, Arthas.

>>386890485
>Literally all it took to save the king's life was one loyal man on that Northrend expedition.
There is nothing to suggest that the men with Arthas weren't loyal to the crown, they were just under the assumption Arthas hadn't lost his mind. They didn't think him a traitor just foolhardy, up to the point the King commanded him to return, Arthas was presumably well within his power as crown prince to lead his army to Northrend. And even with a spy, there is no way to know Arthas had turned into a Death Knight. The only way for anyone to even know that is if they were there when he got Frostmourn, in which case they would have been killed anyways.

>>386890485
He killed most all of the expedition. There's a quest in WoW where you play as him and kill a bunch of footmen.

>>386892059
>power as crown prince
Now in the real world, crown princes are powerless. They are important, sure, but as they represent the continuation of their ruling dynasty they would never be allowed to place themselves in danger.

Nevermind that, it's a fantasy world. The fact remains that Uther was suspicious of Arthas from Stratholme. He has the resources and the motivation to spy on Arthas, but he doesn't. Why? Well, dramatic effect of course, but in-universe? Incompetence. It's the only explanation.

Maybe he had gotten old and soft and slightly senile after his glory days in WC2.

>>386892202
Imagine if Lordaeron had an intelligence service. If I was in charge of such a thing, I'd be recruiting mages. They can go invisible and teleport and everything. They make perfect spies.

>>386888187
>It takes less than a minute to find an opponent on battle.net
What region? Unless it's my first game on another account, it takes me over an hour to find a 4v4 RT

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>>386886175
If it's any consolation, HotS has great models. People who don't play usually agree it's the best part about it.

>>386891453
Where would he be hiding? Up arthas`s ass? Every turn you make puts you on top of a level 7 windagoo

>>386892443
>He has the resources
There is nothing to suggest he has the resources to send spies, if anything the existence of SI:7 in the current Alliance suggests those powers are distributed, and their resources need to be requested, especially in a time of non-active war. There is also nothing to suggest he would be given the power to spy on the prince without the permission of the King, who he was going to speak to about Arthas from Strath.

>>386893103
Are you telling me that the Order of the Silver Hand cannot spare a single man to accompany Arthas to Northrend?

Do you think that is a more reasonable assumption than the one I am making?

>>386893280
Arthas dismissed uthers paladins from service, he wouldn't have taken any of them with him even if it was an empty threat

>>386893280
The Order of the Silver Hand consisted of Paladins, Paladins who Arthas previously suspended from service at Stratholme.

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>tfw people are nostalgicfags for Wrath
>don't realize the expansion wasn't that good

If Legion had better PvP than it does right now, it would be on par with Wrath. It isn't that far off anymore.

>>386893494
>>386893454
So that would remove their loyalty to the Crown?

What if Uther sits down with then and goes, "guys I know I'm not allowed to order you to do this, but we need to keep an eye on the crown prince," they'd refuse?

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Quests for every member of the Explorer's League when?

weird trivia I learned from someone from blizz on twitter:

>Worgen can be death knights because being killed causes the grip the curse has on your mind to be destroyed but leaves the shapechanging aspect of it intact
>Contrary to what cata says, worgen aren't immune to being resurrected via necromancy, it's just obscenely hard to do, like way out of the skill range of a normal necromancer but well within the LK's abilities

>>386894839
This image is shit fuck off
>NE are just blue humans now
>not to menation her clothing

JUST SLAP THE WARCRAFT IP ONTO ANYTHING AND THE RETARDS WILL BUY IT

>>386895239
Worgen are shit

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>>386895408
Starseeker doesn't have glowy eyes, it is a mystery

>>386895408
HS isn't canon buddy

here's my question:

>Illidan takes a clean hit to the chest from frostmourne
>doesn't lose his soul
>just goes nuts

is it because he's demonic?

I know lots of people don't like legion but I'm having the time of my life playing a demon hunter, I've loved them ever since I played 3 as a kid to be honest

>>386895837
Not sure if demons even have souls

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>>386885836
>he's not read the book

>>386895940

in modern WoW a demon's soul can only be permanently destroyed if it dies in the twisting nether, which is where a demon is at its strongest as opposed to just an avatar. They made that up to justify bringing archimonde back as a raid boss again

>>386879813

>Tyrande frees him and insists Illidan won't fuck up and can genuinely be an asset
>the mission immediately after this is illidan murdering his way into demonhood and being banished forever

always made me giggle

>>386892821
>Exaggerating an already exaggerated art style
Thats exactly why I'm skeptical in the first place.

>>386896516
Tyrande will and always be a cunt

>>386873809
IIRC WotLK explained that it was because Arthas's lingering will held of the Lich King from attacking the main land.

>>386896812
Tyrande HAS NO IDEA HOW TO LEAD OUR PEOPLE

>>386888614
THIS PEAR, SO DELICIOUS

>>386895837
Ilidan already went insane from being caged for 10k years. Remember when he tried to kill the lich king by splitting the earth in two?

>>386896049
Of course I didnt

>>386896516
He doesn't murder anyone. Sayters are not people

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>>386898028

The greatest flaw in WCIII is...

The Night Elves campaign.

>>386898350
What are you smoking? The NE campaign in RoC is the 3rd best campaign in wc3

>>386898538
>3rd best

That's... not good.

>>386898350
Undead being trash. I appreciate that they tried to make them feel different but it didn't work out, they're simply not a good race if you want to seriously ladder.

>>386898620
I thought human was the official trash race in melee.

>>386895408
You nigger it's a Hearthstone card.
Also she's only a half-NElf.

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>>386898028

Illidan and Garithos did nothing wrong.

Illidan just hung around with some bad kids, is all, if we only had more money for them after-school programs, he would never have fallen in with those Nagas

>>386898269
>Garithos' entire family was slaughtered because the high elves didn't join the Alliance when they should have, thus ultimately leading to him being assigned to protect Quel'thalas which resulted in his family, land and wealth being gang raped to death by orcs
>Manages to pull together the last remnants of the Alliance despite insurmountable odds, daily risks and constant threat of being killed
>Elves eventually join, reluctantly you give them a chance
>You have to staff their army with your own HUMAN men, survivors of Lordaeron who were ignored as the elves sat behind their enchanted gates and left your Kingdom to its fate. Years earlier Quel'thalas would have burned if not for the Alliance of Lordaeron (humans)
>After an argument with Kael'thas a strike force of the scourge is bearing down on, outnumbering you 10 to 1
>You recall all the auxillary (human) troops from the blood elves, you literally need them
>The arrogant cunts can't even fight their own battle and decide to work with the naga, former highbourne demon worshippers that almost ended the world
>You give Kael'thas a stark warning and remind him where his loyalties lie
>He starts working with them, you know full well the blood elves are addicted to the arcane and susceptible to demons
>You condemn him to death and his honour guard for working with the people who nearly ended the world once
>You even work the Forsaken who stab you in the back
>Years later Kael'thas unironically joins the Burning Legion, betrays his own people and tries to summon fucking Kil'jaeden
Garithos did nothing wrong.

>>386898592
3rd of 7 is pretty good, and they are all good so being the worst wouldnt even matter

>>386899071
>wow """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""lore"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>386893586
Legions biggest issue was that it launched with the most fucked grinds.

I dont think that there's too many people left who enjoy grinding the game for ten hours a day just to maintain their character enough to participate in raids.
There's other shit to do, other games to play.

They've loosened up the grind aspect but the first impression hurts the most.

>>386899773
t. triggered memeelf, go back to sucking off demoncock

Glad you could bake it, Uther

Watch your tone with me, boy. You may be the waiter, but I'm still your superior as a chef.

As if I could forghetti. Listen, there's something about the plaguette you should knead. Oh no! It's too late! These peopleroni have all been infectedanana! They may look al dante now, but it's a matter of thyme before they turn into the undeadable.

What?

This entire citrella must be peeled!

How can you even cook that?! There's got to be some other whey.

Damn it, Umami, as your future chef, I order you to broil this city!

You are not my chef yet, boyardee. Nor would I obey that command if you were!

Then I must consider this an act of seasoning.

Seasoning? Have you sauced your mince, Arthas?!

Have I? Lord Umami, by my right of succession and sovereignty of my crown of roast pork, I hereby rehydrate you from your commandard and suspenderoni your pepperoni from service!

Arthas, you can't just-

DING

It's done! For those of you who have the will to taste this flan, follow me! The rest of you... get out of my kitchen.

You've just tossed a terrible salad, Arthas.

Jaina?

I'm sorry Arthas... I can't watch you cook this.

>>386899071
Kael'thas's whole decent into madness "story" is one of the worst things ever written

Lillian Voss tier writing

>>386900113
>The elf said, frantically he tugged at his eyebrows "By the sunwell, the humans are catching on!"
Screw off Jim'kael

>>386895837
Arthas has to "manually" suck the soul of someone to Frostmourne. Also kill that someone. He was literally running against time, even a moment could have meant the LK would be gone.

>>386900027
The problem is that it is grinding with a layer of RNG on top of your normal RNG
not counting the stupid grind for legendaries, for regular loot it goes something like:

>hope loot piece you need drops
>hope it titanforges
>hope it titanforges a lot

That and maintaining 4 different difficulty levels for raid is fucking retarded

>>386900113
Exactly

Kael'thas in WC3:
>I need to save my people! I may do extreme things like allying with Illidan and Naga, but it's all for my people! We just want a place and way to live!

Kael'thas in WoW:

>OH GOD I NEED DEMON COCKS. HUGE, SPIKY, FEL-DRIPPING, DEMONIC DICKS. FELIC SHLONGS ALL OVER ME, MY PROSTATE IS IN NEED OF SOMEONE CORRUPTION

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?

>>386900485
>BY THE LIGHT OF THE SUN ITS LIKE ANNUDAH PLAGUING, THE HUMANS ARE CATCHING ON! BETTER CRITICIZE MODERN WARCRAFT!
You aren't fooling me. I know what ((you)) elves are.

>>386893618
>they'd refuse?
Probably not, but they aren't spies, they are paladins. It's not like Arthas or his men would let them on his boats, or they have the subterfuge skills to sneak among them.

>>386900625
So they're just as fucking stupid as their leader. Gotcha.

>>386900485
It was like Arthas 2.0 irony without any of the reasoning and character building in Arthas's decent

Illidan going crazy for demons was also fucking dumb. Yeah the guy was majorly unhinged but his plan was never to...do whatever he was doing in TBC?

>>386900747
>"Hey I need one of you guys to take on a mission none of you are capable of accomplishing, and have never been expected to perform, against a person who now sees you as a traitor so who knows what he would do to you once you are assuredly captured."
I don't think you know what the word 'stupid' means.

>>386900485
Illidan was being a massive (and I mean utterly, titanically, colossal) dick to his own people in BC, because the Illidari became his special students, and he figured everyone else could fuck off and die. Hence him sending Lady Vashj to a hell hole swamp full of face-exploding mosquitoes, and Kael to an arcane blasted wasteland.
To Illidan, if you weren't a DH like him you were basically fodder, and Kael was naturally pissed at him for it. As such, he needed a new way to get Magic to feed off of, and Kil'jaeden (Being the fucking master manipulator and negotiator for the Legion) tells him he can have all the Fel and Arcane he can drink if he helps the Legion.
Considering Kael had nowhere left to go, he drank some of the Kool Aid.

>>386901035
>take off Silver Hand uniform
>put on Arthas uniform
>report for duty

>>386901209
>utilize any of your training as a paladin
>immediately found out and captured

>>386901209
>"Sorry what did you say your name was? Um I don't see you on our unit roster, who did you say you were with again? How come nobody from your unit recognizes you?"
It's almost like infiltration isn't that simple.

>>386901403
>just don't do that
Yup, paladins confirmed for retards.

>>386901103
man, the whole story element of striking deals with dubious people and ending up paying for it is so much less tragical when those people happen to be literally red-skinned firebreathing demon lords

like, what did you expect

>>386901543
Yeah I'm sure Arthas had time and interest in vetting every single fucking sailor.

How about the point that he dissolves the Silver Hand in Stratholme. In a real world scenario, a crown prince trying to dissolve a military unit loyal to the king would be a declaration of civil war. But Uther just decides to bend over and take it, because he's fucking stupid.

How would Raynor's raiders survive in the Warcraft universe? On one hand, they're a tiny force, on the other, they have infinitely more advanced weapons.

>>386901797
Raynor gets killed by an Abomination, GG ez.

>>386901797
Warcraft natives have magic though. They've seen some shit. Depends on who he picks a fight with I suppose.

>>386901738
>Yeah I'm sure Arthas had time and interest in vetting every single fucking sailor.
It's almost like you have no fucking idea how an organized military functions. And clearly Uther didn't take his 'decree' seriously which is why he went back to the King to let him now how big of a twat his son was being. But what was he supposed to do? attack the Prince?

>>386901945
Yes, that's exactly what he's supposed to do. He's basically in open rebellion at this point.

>>386901797
Laser beams and space fortresses are all canon technology in WoW though, Gnomes even have had nukes since vanilla

>>386902050
No he fucking isn't you twat. Do you know what open rebellion is? All that happened was Arthas getting mad and throwing a tantrum. Uther easily went to the King in order to counterman that order, which he evidently did considering his Urn was being guarded by Uther and his Paladins.

>>386900485
>>386900847
>>386901103
TBC was just a shitty attempt at forcing a story that involved Illidan because they wanted to raise the stakes with WoWs first expansion.
They put him on the cover so they had to use him as the big bad, even though it made no real sense.

They fucked up and picked Outland which is a garbage setting at the time WoW is playing out because at that point all the important shit there already happened and all the lore characters that were linked to that were either dead or not there anymore.

Everything about TBC feels shoehorned as fuck.

>>386902050
>>386902050
>He's basically in open rebellion at this point.
Who Arthas?
>Prince is throwing a colossal temper tantrum
>better try and attack him with my vastly outnumbered force and either get slaughtered to the man, or win and be hanged as the traitor who killed the Prince.
Or the smart choice of step back and inform the King that his son is off his rocker. It's not like Arthas was actually trying to destroy the Kingdom, he was at least at face value trying to act in it's best interest, even if it was folly.

>>386902258
>dissolves military unit loyal to king
>refuses direct orders Northrend
>returns and commits regicide
I know what a rebellion is. Do you?

>>386902380
He did not go to Northrend to serve the kingdom, that's for fucking sure. He went there to serve himself.

>>386902262
The Illidan book actually rewrote it into being a mildly decent story. Illidan was building his army of DHs (All of whom were certifiably insane BEFORE eating demon flesh), Maiev was trekking through the most inhospitable terrain ever know to Warcraft, and it culminated in Illidan fighting the raid after managing to not fuck things up completely.
>>386902394
Wait, are we talking about Uther or Arthas?

>>386902613
Those are things Arthas did. I am mad at Uther for not doing jack shit about all this. He knew all along but he passively watches his kingdom get dismantled by a mad prince.

>>386870739
>>386888335

The thing with the Scourge and the majority of the undead is that they are mindless or way to powerful. Without a king or proper ruler most of the undead would become feral and instead just fuck everything up in a wave of pure chaos.

The undead that aren't mindless would then do major damage because they actually know what to attack or try to become a new Lich King that doesn't have control over Ner' Zul who would then be Lich King 10x.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck
I wish I could go back. My life was so much simpler then and everything seemed bright.

>>386902394
We are talking about Uther and how he responded to Arthas' actions, not Arthas himself. And you are forgetting a pretty key piece of that story, where he takes up a cursed blade and loses his mind to the Lich King.
>>386902482
Not talking about Arthas.

>>386902742
No he doesn't, he goes to Therenas to reform the Paladins, then heads to Strathholme to try and stop it from becoming an even worse situation as the city burned.
>>386902789
Oddly enough, a Crypt Lord in the Eastern PL actually tries to become a new Lich King. Fails, naturally.

>>386902613
Illidan sitting in Outland and building up his army makes perfect sense.

His Shittrath raids were dumb though. Technically the Alliance and Horde shouldnt truly have beef with him outside of butthurt elves. And even then there were more important things to take care of.

>>386890373
>Hitler
>evil
good goy

>>386902742
>I am mad at Uther for not doing jack shit about all this.
He literally did what was in his power, you are the one with the retarded ideas of what he """""should""""" have done, which he couldn't have.

>>386902878
Alright. I'm saying that Arthas' actions are well into the realm of treachery long before he wields the Frostmourne.

I am saying that Uther had knowledge of this, and had resources to prevent it, yet he did nothing.

Incidentally, Dalaran must also know, because Jaina was at Stratholme as well. They don't do anything either.

>>386902939
>His Shittrath raids were dumb though
Actually performed by Kael'thas, who did so to initiate conflict between Shattrath (And therefor the Naaru, Horde, and Alliance with it) and Illidan

>>386902990
So you're saying that the Grand Master of the Order of the Silver Hand is unable to place one single loyal man in the Northrend expedition?

>>386868912
Before WoW fel magic was just raw form of (corrupted) arcane magic drawn from the twisting nether.

>>386903142
>Actually performed by Kael'thas
so why hasnt illidan said something about it
he couldve teamed up with the alliance and horde to stomp kael thas shit real hard

>>386903187
>>386902990
You two faggots have been arguing the entire thread, you're both right. Uther's a dumb faggot that should have done more but because of blizzards writing he didn't. Arthas is a fucking egotist. Now kiss. With your tongues.

>>386901797
They wouldn't. Too much magic in Warcraft that the only thing they would do is be better than dwarfs and give good anti-air.

>>386903309
That would make only me right, though.

I'll accept my kiss on my dick. With tongue.

>>386903082
>Arthas' actions are well into the realm of treachery
No they aren't, they are just in the realm of a Prince reaching far beyond his breadth.
>I am saying that Uther had knowledge of this, and had resources to prevent it, yet he did nothing.
He did not have any resources to prevent it, and he did act in returning to the King who did have the power to put and end to it, it was just too late at that point.
>Dalaran must also know, because Jaina was at Stratholme as well. They don't do anything either.
Dalaran is it's own territory with it's own problems, and IIRC Jaina is the only one to really do anything about it because she is the one who evacuates as many as will listen to Kalimdor. She was the only one to heed Medihv's warning albeit a bit too late.

>>386901797
>They run out of ammunition
>Power sources are extremely limited
>Just another group of mercenaries
>End up getting raped in the ass by magic and medieval combat

>>386903189
Arcane is the raw magical energy.
Fel is when it's focused and used in conjunction with souls for power.
>>386903282
He literally had too big of an ego. The book is all about him launching an attack on the Dreadlord Homeworld to find the location of the Keystone to find where Argus was. He literally did not want the Alliance or Horde's hekp because HE had to be the super awesome cool demon hunter who went to Argus and killed Kil'jaeden take that Malfurion YOU FUCKING COCK SUCKING GIRLFRIEND STEAKER.

>>386903405
>He did not have any resources to prevent it,
The Grand Master doesn't have resources? Please elaborate.

>>386903187
Yes, and i'v explained very clearly why he couldn't. They are an order of paladins not spies, and Arthas still commanded an organized military unit so without someone with infiltration skills they would have failed. I also explained why even if he had that spy it would mean fuck-all because they never would have known Arthas was returning as a DK.

>>386903405
Also I think Dalaran has an interest in keeping their host kingdom stable and Scourge-free. But yeah they're egoist cunts, so they're excused.

Uther on the other hand...

>>386903518
I was under the impression that was 'modern' WoW's retcons?

>>386903680
>host kingdom stable
You mean the Alterac Kingdom?

>>386903518
I mean, that would be kinda believable but he does cooperate with everybody in Legion now so thats still weird.

>>386903592
Muradin fucking knew it was a bad idea. His own men knew it was a bad idea, to the point Arthas has to burn his own ships.

And your defense for the paladin order is that they're too fucking stupid to do some basic fucking intelligence work. Ok. Maybe they could hire somebody to do it or something? Maybe though could do ANYTHING.

>>386903778
Yes. Basically a puppet of Lordaeron in any case.

>>386903778
Dalaran had their own Kingdom, it was a city state no? One of the seven human kingdoms that made up the original Alliance of Lordaeron.

>>386880651
>He lied because he needed his men to trust him
The irony

>tfw can't wait for a sequel to Frozen Throne since WoW is not canon

Hold me bros

>>386903841
>basic fucking intelligence work.
Again you don't know anything at all how an organized military functions so just fucking stop.
>Maybe they could hire somebody to do it or something? Maybe though could do ANYTHING.
Anything like go to the fucking King who is really the only person who has authority over the Prince? Oh wait, they fucking did that.

Archmage was best hero
>hit level 6 and teleport into enemy base using a mechanical critter

>>386904064
Pretty much. Lordaeron was the largest and the leader of the Alliance. The lesser kingdoms were basically vassals. Am I wrong?

Dalaran of course was unique and they were able to go "fuck you, useless ass Alliance" and hide behind a bubble.

>>386879913
>If you kill your enemies, they win

>>386904207
>Uhm, m'lord your son is in open rebellion.
>Well, tell him to stop.
>As you wish, sire.
Wow decisive as fuck!

And stop it with the fucking organized military bullshit. Arthas was insane already and there's no fucking way he gave a shit who crewed the ships, or who followed him to Northrend. Of course you'd be able to infiltrate such an outfit.

>>386904064
Yeah it was, but at least physically would be closer to Alterac or even Gilneas over Lordaeron. It's what I thought he meant by 'host kingdom.'
>>386903778
Hardly, that was one of the many problems going on in Lordaeron at the time, the Alliance of old was starting to fall apart, and then you had the Orc uprisings happening all over the place.

>>386904243
Well, its a military Alliance. More like NATO really with Lordaeron being the key leaders because they were the wealthiest nation. Each Kingdom its own independant nation with its own standing army, culture, etc.