>If you change the future, you also change the past I'm

>go to future
>do something
>events in the past now have to adapt to make the future outcome possible

it's not exactly rocket science

>>386739802
It doesn't operate on multiverse theory, it operates on time paradox theory, same as Back to the Future. Meaning that the timeline forcefully adapts to any changes.

>>386740052

But... the past already adapted because YOU CHANGED THE FUTURE. Where the fuck did you come from if not the past?

>>386740052
>>386740216
Forgive me but I seem to be not too informed on this, can you perhaps explain alittle more in detail? Time related stuff can get confusing to me

>>386740052
I kinda get his point. If you change something in the future, the past would stay the same until the day you arrived to change something.

>>386740324
Imagine this scenario.
You get terminal illnes and die.
A family member comes from the future in a time machine and gives you cure for the illnes so you don't die, this changes the future and you get to live to see it.
But now imagine a scenario where all of the above happened, but with one extra step:
A different person invents a time machine and goes into the future and kills your relative before he enters his time machine, thus preventing him from making the trip from the future and giving you the medicine.
Ergo paradox occurs and you can no longer exist in the future since you still die, this ends up changing the future back to one where you don't exist.

I don't think I can explain it any simpler.

There's various theories for time travel, one of them is the temporal paradox one which is what I just described.

Multiverse theory assumes that any change you make won't alter reality, but instead creates an alternate universe running in parallel to current one. Meaning that there's an infinite number of alternate universes existing and being created every second whenever someone takes a different decision as per chaos theory.

As for what chaos theory is, any action taken, no matter how small, can potentially snowball given enough time to completely change how events play out in the future.

Wolfenstein New Order is an example of chaos theory in action: What if Nazis won? Entire world is completely different due to snowball effect from merely one difference.

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>>386740052
>>386740216

but that way the new timeline doesn't actually have me going to the future?

>>386740767
That's why Temporal Paradox theory is stupid and generally ignored by scientists as extremely unprobable and why it's called a Paradox to begin with.
Multiverse theory is the only time travel theory that makes logical sense.

>>386740052
Wait a minute are you trying to Stein's Gate me again

>>386739802
It would imply that something happens in the bad future to make the good past possible. Maybe someone goes back in time and prevents something really idiotic from happening, like dinosaurs coming back to life and buttfucking mankind, so that their empire of evil can one day flourish. Something stupid like that.

I dunno, I didn't play FFXIII-2

>>386740052
aaaaaaaaah so by changing the future you shift timelines instead? Actually makes sense desu

>>386739802
DE PELOS!

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>>386739802
Basically the time Timeline changes so that the effect you caused would have happened even if you hadn't time-travelled.

See it as a sort of pre-emptive paradox resolving, even if you after you change time-travel to prevent your timetravel the effect of your timetravel remain because the past now had some changes that will allow the timeline to resolve to that outcome even without your interferance, provided the event was major enough.

So if Chrono Trigger would used that kind of Temporal Mechanic defeating Lavos would alter the time line so that when Lavos awoke the people of 1999AD will BTFO him, even if Chrono is prevented from timetraveling, because Lavos Awakening is major temporal event so bumping up the level of civilization is a smoother transition compared to going back to WoR, if whoever prevented Chronos timetravel wanted WoR as a outcome then that person would also need to assist Lavos in 1999AD, not only prevent Chrono from time traveling, since Chronos change persists, even if Chrono isn't there for the event anymore.

>Baby's first Time Paradox Theory experience
Play Chrono Trigger and watch Back to the Future, faggot.

Man, Caiuz was the best ff antagonist. He even fucking wins. Not even Kefka won as much as he did.

>>386741459
Legacy of Kain also deals with Time Paradox theory very well. The time continuum in that does absolutely its hardest to instantly warp itself as if the change never happened.
It takes a MASSIVE paradox at the end of Soul Reaver 2 to actually change it in visible manner and even then the timeline warps itself so as if the paradox/change never occured and it simply was always like that, as evidences by "Kain's memories blooming and dying" before Raziel's eyes and Blood Omen 2's events coming into existence when they didn't exist before.
And even then the timeline ends up resolving itself with Raziel STILL becoming the Reaver eventually, just at a later point.

I legit don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept of time paradox.

>>386739802
13 and it's sequels were not know for good story telling, in fact it was for the opposite.

>>386742268
>wins
Lightning kills him in LR, he doesn't win shit.

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>>386742579
> kills him
kek
seems like someone didn't play the game.

>>386740870

>Tfw Dragon Ball did it right

WOAH

>>386740921
Steins;Gate had multiple timelines/universes. Not the same thing.

>>386742579
His whole goal was to stop Yeul from dying by breaking time and getting rid of his pesky immortality in the process.

And that's what he did, it was only after he realized that he DUN GOOFED and basically condemned both him and all of her to oblivion.

And seriously, both Yeul and Serah(who had the same power and thus "fate") basically told him to stop being a faggot about it and that they don't really care that they have to die provided the world is saved. Serahs "Don't you see? I DON'T CARE!" was pretty much the best moment in the game.

>>386739802
There's an example in-game where Serah sends a message to Hope from a future era that changes the past. Her mere appearance in the future changed the future, and thusly changed the past.

The whole Lightning trilogy features contradiction as a theme though

>We have to destroy Cocoon in order to save cocoon!
>We have to free ourselves from our focus by following our focus!
>We have to change the future to change the past!

>>386742579

Lightning confronts Caius in the throne room, where he tells her not to waste her time on him, and asks if she seeks revenge for suffering defeat at his hand centuries ago. He refuses salvation from Lightning, but she insists on trying because it's what Yeul wants, and believes that freeing him would bring the Chaos under control, but Caius challenges her to take his soul by force. Once defeated, Caius impales himself and shows her he is beyond salvation.

He explains Yeul is the unseen Chaos and she has bound him to the dying world as her incarnations are not of one mind: some desire his prolonged suffering to end, while others wish him to remain by their side. He says that there is no place for Yeul in the new world that the god Bhunivelze is creating, and they must remain behind when Nova Chrysalia is destroyed. Caius reveals he is nothing but an empty husk and intends to become a shepherd of the souls wandering in the Chaos. When Lightning asks if it is how he plans to atone for bringing about the end of the world, Caius demands that she leave and disappears.

Lightning turns against Bhunivelze when she learns of his true plan to make humanity but emotionless drones who would thus live in "perpetual bliss." Lightning rallies the souls of humanity to strike him down, and moments after Bhunivelze's defeat, Caius appears to Lightning and her friends alongside the many incarnations of Yeul. Caius says the living don't need a god but the dead require one, and the Yeuls declare their intent to take Etro's place to maintain the flow of life and the balance between the new world and the new unseen realm. Grabbing Noel when he protests the Yeuls' decision, Caius asks if he would be willing to take Yeul's place. In a final act of redemption upon finding Noel's answer satisfactory, Caius lets the final incarnation of Yeul depart with Noel to the new world and asks Noel to keep her safe, while he remains with the other Yeuls in the unseen realm

>Purple Sephiroth with Nightmare Blade

How did they get away with this?

>>386742579
He was actually the only villain who won.

How is it possible to not fuck up a time travel story

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>>386746673
Either have it be established like FFXIII-2 where "lol it's paradoxes i don't gotta explain shit" very early on, or be airtight like Chrono Trigger and don't ever make a sequel.

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>>386739802
it's not fucking difficult

>Since time travel is fucking made up there are usually 2 different ways to write it

>A: If you go to the future and alter shit and then leave that timeline, history will continue and act exactly as if you came out of nowhere and changed shit and left

>B: If you go to the future and alter shit and then leave, the timeline will eventually try and correct itself by making what you changed happen organically by changing things in the past so that whatever you altered makes sense, since your presence in that timeline is an anomaly and it wants to scrub you popping in and popping out from history

>>386739802

These days it's becoming commonly accepted that time is not in fact linear.

The FFXIII are such garbage shit, holy fuck lol

>>386740052
jumping in different timeline?

>>386745270
it worked surprisingly well considering that he is liked by most people.

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>>386745270

>expect edgy "psh, nothing personnel kid" J-rock faggot who just wants to see the world burn for no real reason
>get a motherfucking immortal time-traveling indian who would fight fate for his loli

By the end, I was completely on his side

I hope they put this man in the new Dissidia

>>386740052
but what should happen is you create a all new universe beacuse you change yours.

>>386742847
i admit, that shit blew my mind as a kid.

People trying to explain this with conventional logic are missing the point. Events get altered because of Chaos magic which basically destroys time itself. When Serah and Noel destroy a manifestation of chaos, related events also change. This line is supposed to make no sense and there's even an NPC that talks about the fact that it makes no sense.

It would help if SE bothered to explain the cosmology of its own setting in the fucking game but you know how they are.

>>386739802
Suppose you create a being that stretches forward and backwards through time upon its birth, that in a way is a method to alter the past by changing its future.

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>>386748805

There's only a single one. Something about Etro bestowing a soul to a person only once as Noel tells you in the tower. If you speak to Hope in Yaschas Massif 1X AF repeatedly, he'll give you a similar claim.

This makes the Graviton Core hunt totally unfeasible and is the only plot hole in the game. Not the fact that the areas remain, that can be some Chaos bubble thing with soulless husks, but that the people in Academia 4XX AF can detect a core in 400, that no longer exists.

>>386752817

>and there's even an NPC that talks about the fact that it makes no sense.

Serah does also.

>>386752035

I really hope so as well.

>>386750193
this tbqh

>>386741459
To think the plot only happens because Marle has a Dee-dee moment.

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>>386740052
thanks for this, some guy explained it on gamefaqs when the game came out but I forgot how it worked when someone brought it up again

>>386746032
He was the first but not only, ardyn from XV also wins super hard, arguably more so than caius did cause he pretty much won prior to the game's events and was just dicking around for funsies most the game.

>>386745270
Well he's a futuristic tribesman who wields the power of chaos. People who say his design sucks don't get design in general

>>386755515

He seemed pretty distraught right before his final end. So even if the story implies nothing went wrong for him, something must've at the end, such as him wanting to live right at that moment, meaning he lost.

It's unfortunate.

>people trying to explain time travel

It's literally impossible, the only way it makes even vague sense is if you use multiple parallel universes. In a singular universe time travel makes 0 sense.