What the fuck happened with this game? >Imprecise shooting

Jak 1 is the only good game is the series

>>386549030

Objectively wrong,

next

>>386549030
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTmLL8jB76c

Music's pretty good.

>>386548839

sudo -i git pull gut

>>386549151
Oh wait you're right I am wrong, I almost forgot Daxter on the PSP was decent

>>386549030
Combat Racing is pretty good.
2 and 3 suck, though.

>I'm going to rip Praxis' head off and shit down his neck!

What did Jak mean by this?

Jak 2 always felt like the black sheep of the trilogy, to me, for all the reasons you mentioned.
Jak 1 is a cool collectathon, and 3 is a cool action game, but 2 feels way too unfocused, and it has way too many instances of THAT level. Especially in the second act, holy shit.

>>386548839
Jak II just exposed Naughty Dog as the trend-following hacks they are. Not content to make simple but good 3D platformers any more, they made an edgy shooter hybrid with a pointless overworld and paid the price for it.

>>386548839
>Imprecise shooting with no strafing.
Maybe you're just shit, but I never had that issue when I was younger
>It's especially difficult to hit aerial enemies as the camera can barely pan up.
Jump, spin shoot. I thought everybody did this by now
>Both the vehicles and camera control like a greasy kipper.
They work well enough
>Checkpoints practically non-existent.
git gud
>Poorly designed escort missions with volatile characters.
Easiest missions in the game since they give you a shitton of ammo and a 2 person car early in the mission

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>>386548839
Agreed about the story. Memes about Jak's edgyness aside the story actually is much better than the first game that just had "two mages delved into dark arts and you must stop them, that's literally the entire plot". I'm kind of peeved though that they weren't brought back for Jak 3 as recurring antagonists as Jak 1 ends with Samos saying he *thinks* they're dead after diving into pure dark eco. Cyborg Errol was kind of crap.

I don't think the lack of strafing hurts the game that much as all weapons can be chained into melee attacks, which is really neat. It's one thing I liked more about Jak 2 and 3 compared to Ratchet and Clank games where you either always kept strafe shooting OR attacking with melee weapons, usually the lackluster wrench and only during wrench-only challenges.

My biggest beef with Jak 2 and 3 is the somewhat underutilized open world city and desert. I mean apart from orb challenges there's really nothing interesting to do in them and the actual levels were pretty much always more fun to play.

>>386549565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJny3dcesug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbPNsDf0thA&t

It had some neat moments.

>>386549030
Tru dat

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>>386548839
>What the fuck happened with this game?

>>386549852
>paid the price

it was well received when it released and it ended up being a PS2 greatest hit, the fuck are you smoking?

>>386549030
Have only played 1 and 2 so far, but I'm agreeing with this sentiment till I play 3.

>>386548839
I think they poorly redesigned it to be a GTA like in mind after QA testers wanted games like GTA. Not surprised that Insomniac just did everything better in Ratchet and Clank, and their followups. Just the better studio by default, although they haven't been doing so hot recently. Neither of them are.

>>386550925
Play Daxter, you might actually like it

>>386549030
I recently played 1 for the first time and it still holds up incredibly well. First Sly still does too. Why can't people nail platforming controls like those two games did nowadays.

>>386550983
He's so fucking annoying though, is the gameplay worth the annoyance of that little faggot?

>>386550621
If I have one problem with Naughty Dog, it's that they always design their games after someone else's.
>Way of the Warrior
Mortal Kombat
>Crash Bandicoot
Sonic the Hedgehog
>Jak and Daxter
Super Mario 64
>Jak II and III
Grand Theft Auto III and Vice City
>Uncharted
Gears of War (right down to the button config)

And the racing games are obviously Mario Kart and then WipeOut. Their one wholly original feeling game would have been Last of Us, because it doesn't take as direct inspiration, but it's such a generic mishmash of survival horror concepts, I don't see how it could be. It's also their weakest game, though for some reason critics really fucking loved it.
Though in most of their commentary,
they just tell you to turn the game down to easy because it's no fun to play, just to experience the story, and then it wins all the GOTY awards.

>>386551135
The gameplay isn't too bad. The actual premise is pretty boring (literally pest control) but there's good platforming to be had.

>>386551209
I'd say Jak & Daxter took more inspiration from the Rare collectathons on N64.

>>386551209
>Gears of War
>not Tomb Raider

>>386551243
Alright, i'll give it a shot after 2 then.

>>386551209
>>386551317
Saying Jak and Daxter took from SM64 is a pretty empty argument. Every 3d platformer made in the 21st century took from SM64 or Banjo Kazooie. They were just influential games for the genre.

>>386551317
Those themselves were inspired by Mario 64. And in any case, ND was living in MArio's shadow for years, especially since Mario was revealed similtaneously alongside Crash, and they were getting hit with "Well, it's not actually 3D, like Mario.

Jak and Daxter is their direct answer to that, in that they were trying to make a better Mario 64. Actually one cohesive world with "no loading times", more diverse gameplay and combat, in game cutscenes and story, etc.

>>386551418
It's a blend of both Gears and Tomb Raider, though with how much shooting is in it, and how much cover, I'd say it's more like Gears.

>>386551317
I don't think so, Rare collectathons tend to be a bit on the slow side and focused on unlocking new abilities. Mario and Jak are pretty much the same from beginning to end, so the depth is in the character control and tight movement physics.

How was The Lost Frontier? Is the only one I never played.

>>386551712
Really bad, even if you liked the others.

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>>386550217
Yeah I used jump and spin shoot but even that was imprecise and if you missed too many shots then there's a higher chance that you or your escortee with get hit. I thinking of the Samos tree mission specifically here.

I suppose I did "git gud" enough since I finished the game, but there were too many times when it just got frustrating. Like the escort or turret missions which are tediously easy but then you get to the harder (read: borderline broken) part and oops! Looks like you have to do the whole thing again. Just poor game design.

The vehicle-based escort missions weren't as bad apart from the actual vehicle mechanics which I hated.

>>386550339
Yeah, Jak fell for the open world meme hard without understanding how to make an actually good one. Ironically, the first Jak pulled off a (pseudo) open world better.

>>386551654
>Actually one cohesive world with "no loading times"
I find this really funny. Jak and Daxter's world is completely seamless, there are close to zero instances where the game stops to load the next area.
Then Jak II had an empty hub world, and had to stop to load each of the actual levels.

Whenever people talk about Jak I always feel like the black sheep for liking J&D 3 the most.
Is it so bad to want a good Mad Max for kids?

>>386551209
With the exception of Way of the Warrior, Naughty Dog usually did a better job than the game they were ripping off

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>>386552015
Hey, 3 is good, don't let people tell you otherwise.

>>386552078
You're gonna tell me Jak 2's sandbox elements are better than GTA's? You're full of shit, dude.

>>386552182
I didn't really like any of the GTA games, so yes

>>386550925
Insomniac fucked up because Sunset Overdrive released as an exclusive on a less popular console and the R&C remake completely shat the bed story-wise. Both games are actually well make in the gameplay department. It's Spiderman that I'm worried will be a QTE fest.

>>386552078
>Jak better than GTA
No chance, for the reasons mentioned in OP. Only played Uncharted 1 and that was way worse than Gears, but 2 and 3 might be better so I won't argue that.

>>386548839
>Imprecise shooting with no strafing

I wish Jak II and Jak 3 had a strafing button like every Ratchet & Clank game starting with Going Commando. That would have made the gunplay so much more fun.

>>386551209
I see what you mean with Uncharted and Gears of War and the Jak games and SM64 and GTA III/Vice City, but I don't see how they designed Crash Bandicoot after Sonic the Hedgehog. The OG Crash trilogy's gameplay is completely different to the Sonic games that were out at the time.

>>386552338
Well, you're entitled to like GTA, I never got into it.
Also, Uncharted 2 is probably the only good TPS game, excluding some of the later Resident Evil games.

>>386552276
I mean, it's all a matter of opinions in the end, but it's just a fact that GTA has better sandbox elements than Jak 2. Hell, it also has better gunplay than it, and early 3D GTA had shit gunplay.

>>386552015
OP here. I played Jak 3 when I was younger. I remember it being miles better than 2 and having a good time. Haven't played it on the PS3 collection yet (just finished 2) but I'm pretty sure I'm not just looking back with nostalgia goggles.

>>386552586
Heard 3 in the collection had slowdown issues in the wastelands, but other than that it's fine. Can't be worse than the Ratchet & Clank collection anyway. I know they relied on a lot of PS2 tricks and hacks to have the games run properly, but the issues in Going Commando are fucking inexcusable. Cutscene straight up skipping in the spaceship? Come the fuck on.

>>386552338
You also forgot the forgettable game called Fuze. I don't think that did well at all.

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Sucker Punch is the best out of Sony's big 3 devs.
They made the original Sly trilogy, inFamous 1, 2 and Festival of Blood. Their only fuckup are the last two inFamous games, Second Son and First Light

>>386554271
Sly 3 was kinda mediocre, though. Tried to do too many things at once, and ended up falling flat on its face as a result.

>>386553105
Oh yeah, good point. I still believe that Insomniac is going strong though.

>>386554271
I really liked Second Son. It wasn't a 10/10 game but the powers were cool, the story was nice and the city was comfy. Graffiti was also a smart way to use the controller.

>>386554342
I found Sly 3 to still be an 8/10. Was conclusive, most of the villains and characters were good, and the minigames they added were fun little side things, with the exception of the base defense level in the third area

>>386554482
Different strokes, I guess. The whole game felt like a drag to me, but hey, if you enjoyed it, good for you. I'm a bigger fan of the R&C games, myself.

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>tfw you kill Praxis.

>>386550865
/v/ likes to pretend Jak 2 wasn't popular as fuck and a decent game. Everyone posting here loved the fucking Jak series when younger yet can't bare to admit it due to rampant contrarianism

>>386555078
He didn't even get that pleasure.

>>386555138
>/v/ is one person
Can you shut the fuck up already, please? Jak 2 is disliked because it lacks checkpoints, has bullshit enemy placements, bad guns and overall mediocre level design. Thankfully 3 improved on all that and even gave us neat vehicle sections.

>>386555138
I only owned the second game when it was new. It sucked and I just played Ratchet instead. Keep pretending this is just some shitposter meme though.

>>386548839
It felt in the "dark and edgy" time period of the early 2000s where everyone tried to be "teenage edgy" stuff. Same with Prince of Persia, the first one was a colorful and funny game, the second one was dark, depressing, insanely difficult, SM characters and a metal soundtrack.

>>386555138
It definitely did some cool things but even back when it released I felt that Ratchet and Clank had become the better series. R&C just got shooting better because they used those mechanics from the ground up. Meanwhile, Jak just tacked it onto game that had previously been all about platforming. Because of that and other stupid decisions (bad vehicles, frustrating missions) I think the game suffered.

They fixed a lot of the problems in Jak 3 though which was a top class game.

>>386549852
>They stopped doing the "3 games and a kart racer" formula.
>They stopped doing something completely different for each new trilogy, simply moving from Parkour generic protag man to Stealth generic protag man.

Unkarted never.

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>>386555270
>He didn't even get that pleasure.

>>386555582
Jak 3 improved only in that it tacked on even more stuff.
They never went back and made the aiming good. Instead they made every gun a homing weapon. They never addressed the source of the difficulty, they just gave you million health points and a free full heal.

>>386552078
>Crash is better than 2D Sonic
>Jak is better than SM64/BK/GTA
>Uncharted is better than Gears

Get the fuck out. At BEST you could argue Uncharted.

>>386555851
>They never addressed the source of the difficulty
But they did. The main difficulty resided in the lack of any kind of checkpoint. Why would you lie like this?

>>386555905
>>Crash is better than 2D Sonic
Correct.

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>>386555801
>Linking worst Jak

>>386552514
It's Sonic but on a forward playing field and without the speed. The way Crash handles is extremely similar to Sonic if he were to stop every few steps, right down to his bounce being nearly identical in weight and height. They even called it Sonic's Ass Game in development.

>>386549030
Objectively correct.
Still holds up.

>>386556046
>The way Crash handles is extremely similar to Sonic if he were to stop every few steps
Crash stops on a dime and instantly runs at full speed. Sonic takes eons to build up momentum and just as long to ditch it. I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>386548839
you forgot the most important part:
it's fucking boring

>>386555960
>I don't know shit about video games.
Good to hear, anon. Fuck level design, character variation and mechanics, slowing the whole thing down, making it a straight fucking line and focusing on precision jumps is WAY better!

>>386555851
It worked though. I think there are very few people who'll argue that Jak 2 is a better game and most people did find 3 fun.

But agreed. Naughty Dog just gave the broken chair a fresh coat of paint rather than fix what was wrong. It was probably a good thing that they moved onto other projects. Not that I particularly enjoy Uncharted's gameplay though.

>>386550339
Agreed. Gol and Maia are underrated villains
Would have been interesting to see how their dynamic with Jak could have changed since he got pumped full of Dark Eco

>>386556110
Sonic also stops immediately if he hasn't built up any momentum. Crash's move speed is similar to Sonic's walk speed in relation to his jump distance and height.

Obviously it's not 1:1 because the way the game is set up is very different and relies on a much slower character, but it's heavily influenced and takes a lot of elements directly. This really shouldn't be hard for you to understand.

>>386555078
>>386555270
>first words were "I'm gonna kill Praxis"
>doesn't kill Praxis
>hell, even rushes to his side after he gets mortally wounded by Metal Korr
what did they mean by this

>>386555270
Checkpoints I'll give you, but the real issue was damage, you had 8 HP but everything took off two points, which made you die more so you went back .

Enemy placement and leve design is too vague a criticism. Which levels and enemies? of all the games that you could get upset about mob placement I'd never have thought "Jak 2"

>>386556394
>Sonic also stops immediately if he hasn't built up any momentum.
Sonic stops quickly if he's barely moving? Who'd have thought?
Now try stopping on a slope, or stopping after rolling down one. It doesn't happen.
I don't see why you'd compare Crash and Sonic at all. Everything is different. The mechanics are different, the level design is different. Jumping feels different, running feels different. The difficulty comes from a different place. All they have in common is that they are mascot platformers.

>>386548839
Legitimately in my top 10. Love this game despite its flaws.

>>386551840
>That level.

>>386556591
The lack of a radar and enemies often spawning behind you, meaning they could easily blindside you is what I'm talking about. Also, when it comes to bad levels, any of the sewer ones, really.

Do the Jak games emulate well? My PS2 doesn't work anymore.

>>386556621
>Now try stopping on a slope, or stopping after rolling down one. It doesn't happen.
Hey, guess what Crash almost entirely lacks!

>I don't see why you would compare Crash and Sonic at all.

1. A walking Sonic and Crash move on flat stretches of land nearly the exact same way.
2. Their jumps function EXTREMELY similarly, as do their bounces off of objects.
3. The developers themselves directly based Crash off of these things and named the project based on the fact that it was like this.

Yes. The level design is different. Crash does not have an option to go fast because his stages are comparatively linear and tiny. That is not the point.

Come the fuck on, anon.

>>386557061
Fuck the sewer levels, specifically the ones with that stupid gem. Why can no game developer make a sewer level right.

>>386557129
Sort of. They have graphical glitches, but they run well enough.

>>386551092
it's amazing how much so many aspects of video game development have regressed, have we made a game that handles better than mario 64 or super metroid?

>>386557164
>1. A walking Sonic and Crash move on flat stretches of land nearly the exact same way.
That's just wrong. Sonic builds speed and Crash doesn't.
>2. Their jumps function EXTREMELY similarly, as do their bounces off of objects.
Jumping and bouncing off enemies isn't exclusive to Sonic and Crash.

I'm sorry anon, I just don't see it.

>>386557268
>have we made a game that handles better than mario 64
As much as I love 64, and can finish it 100% at near speedrun times, I think Sunshine has better controls.

>>386557268
inb4 shitters say Super Metroid had bad physics

>>386555710
Well, in a way they hold their tradition with UC4, it has no racing in it, but huge areas in which you drive with your Jeep which doesn't exists in UC 1-3 (except for the one water ski section at the end of UC1).

>>386555905
>Crash is better than 2D Sonic
Yeah, I prefer collectathons and original Crash was quite hard
>Jak is better than SM64/BK/GTA
I did like it more than all 3 of those
>Uncharted is better than Gears
This is objectively correct, who the fuck wants to play as a walking fridge in a grey-brown world

>>386557836
>Crash is a collectathon
???

>>386557959
I guess he means you had to hit all the boxes, and find secrets and stuff.

>>386558163
That makes it just as much of a collectathon as Sonic, then. Collect a certain amount of tokens, get a gem, woo...

>>386556591
The enemy placement is only really a problem because the camera is slow and clunky, and even then it only starts getting frustrating when you have to escort someone. You could be dealing with enemies right next to your escortee and have no idea that a horde of enemies just popped up on the other side of him/them until they're shredding health.

>>386556791
Yeah, the underwater level is another bullshit one since it's almost impossible to accurately attack the squids and if the mech gets caught on one piece of debris then you'll likely run out of air or get blown up.

>>386556780
I have a love-hate relationship with the game. I liked the story, the dark powers were cool, the world felt vibrant, the city was well made (for its time) and the platforming was generally very good. However, even as a kid I knew it had serious flaws that stopped me from enjoying it to its fullest. It took until now to properly understand what these were.

>>386557349
>Sonic builds speed.
Walking.
Walking.
How many fucking times do I need to tell you that I am talking about how Sonic moves on startup, not when building momentum? I felt like saying "like if Sonic stopped every few steps" would clue you in. Crash does not accelerate the same way Sonic does, but their basic movement is extremely similar.

>BUT OTHER PEOPLE JUMP!
For fuck's-
[Function Extremely Similarly]

Do you see that? Crash's jump is not like Mario's. It's not like Mega Man's. It's not like Simon's or Acro's or fucking Bub and Bob's. It's like Sonic's in term of height and motion, and his bounce is also extremely similar. Notice that Mario and Sonic don't bounce off enemies the same way.

I don't know how this isn't piercing your brain, but what I am saying is that if you set Sonic at his walking speed, he and Crash function extremely similarly. Fuck's sake, Sonic Colors doesn't have momentum like the Classic games and its sidescrolling sections are NEARLY IDENTICAL to Crash's.

But I mean, I guess if you don't see it the people who developed the fucking game and named the prototype after Sonic because of the similarities were just wrong.

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Comfiest level coming through.

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>>386557836
Jesus Christ, you disgust me. Jak and Daxter is a chore compared to SM64.

>>386558279
>How many fucking times do I need to tell you that I am talking about how Sonic moves on startup, not when building momentum?
You can say it as many times as you like but it doesn't make a difference because it's not true. Sonic is sluggish as fuck when he begins to move, and Crash simply isn't.

>>386558451
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVQuq-RQjvo

The music to this level is so relaxing.

>>386558279
>How many fucking times do I need to tell you that I am talking about how Sonic moves on startup, not when [entire point of the game]

>>386558727
Listen, man. I'm not him, but I think both of you might be reading too much into this. The developer's are the one's pulling from Sonic, mostly as a Character Action Game, not entirely based on all of it's key mechanics, like any of the games they've made inspired by others.

Have a read of their development write-up. It'll give you some insight into their thinking:
http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/02/making-crash-bandicoot-part-1/

>>386559159
>They pull heavily from this thing.
>"BUT THEY DIDN'T GET *THIS* PART SO [CLEARLY] ALL THE OTHER PARTS WEREN'T INSPIRED BY IT EITHER!!!"

You fucking serious?
A character can move like Mario but with momentum attached or without a few of his signature moves. In the same way, a character can be like Sonic without his momentum gimmick.

>>386559286
Thank you for actually being rational. I'm not trying to tell them that it's some kind of 1:1 Sonic ripoff, just that he plays like a slow Sonic without momentum.

>>386559760
Momentum is the defining feature of Sonic, along with branching level design that rewards use of it.
You can't "move like x but without the momentum". You're no longer moving like x.

>>386549030
>Intentionally being wrong
The only real flaw these games have is being relatively unpolished, which still leaves them in pretty good quality

>>386559760
>A car can drive like F-Zero but without the handling
See how stupid this sounds?

>>386560263
Yeah, even Jak 2 isn't really bad, it's just painfully mediocre and unfair. Not a game I'd go back to over 1 or 3, or hell, even Daxter, but still okay.

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fucking hated this minigame

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>>386560448
Is Daxter in the running for one of the best PSP games?

Genuinely asking. I owned a PSP but didn't play that many games. Daxter was the best I played on it.

>>386561117
It wasn't toptier, but it was good.

>>386561117
It and Crisis Core were pretty good. But neither will top Dissidia 012 in my opinion.

>>386559976
>>386560414
Are you two actually fucking serious.

I am not saying Crash plays exactly like Sonic. I am saying his default, unaffected movement is similar and that his jump and bounce is very similar. I'm not saying their basic game design is in any way the same. I'm talking specifically about how Crash's basic movement is based on Sonic's.

Like, wild thought here guys, but have you noticed that Fatal Fury is a lot like Street Fighter 2? Sure, it's not exactly the same, especially back when it had the foreground and background hopping mechanic, and it doesn't implement them in the exact same way...but it clearly built off of SF2's example. It still borrows plenty of elements and even some inputs.

But, no, you're right. It's just IMPOSSIBLE that Crash could have a jump and bounce based on Sonic's or that his basic movement is based on Sonic's, just without the whole momentum gimmick. You either have to take everything or nothing. Fatal Fury similarly didn't have ANY influence from Street Fighter 2, the similar combo system and hitstun and the like was just a coincidence! Fatal Fury doesn't play ANYTHING like SF2 because it's not EXACTLY the same and doesn't have the same core mechanics!

Shit, while we're at it, Alpha didn't have any influence from FF or AoF because it doesn't have the foreground/background system. You can't say it plays similarly in any way if it doesn't have the same gimmick! That's silly!

>>386561331
Why are you still here? You wrote out that whole longpost and seem pretty pissed just because I don't agree with this.
>I am saying his default, unaffected movement is similar

>>386549852
>PS2 best seller
>paid the price
lol

>>386551840
>there's a higher chance that you or your escortee with get hit
There's no way to shoot yourself and auto-aim doesn't target allies so idk what the fuck you're talking about.

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>>386556373
Hope this happens in Jak 4!
I really want a Jak 4...

>>386558451
This entire games atmosphere and aesthetic was perfection.

>>386548839
Just jump, spin and shoot at the same time with the rifle. You can beat the whole game this way.

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HEY JACKIE BOY

>>386549030
I disagree, Jak 3 was actually surprisingly good, just purely as a game though, the story is fucking trash
But yeah, should have just stuck to what Jak & Daxter had, there was so much potential and it was a really damn fine game

>>386549030
agreed, 2 and 3 are decent at best. the problem with 2/3 is that it is literally spin jump + shoot with the yellow gun. 3 had a chance to fix that but decided to just add more weapons