Who cares if tonight is not the night, why don't we settle

I wish Valve would communicate outside of blue moons.

>>386520027
I wish the TF2 dev team was even a fraction as decked out as the Dota 2 team is. I mean what the fuck? It's still a pretty significant earner so you'd think the team would be in better shape.

It's just sad. Show some respect.

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TONIGHT IS (probably not) THE NIGHT

>>386521457
Moar

>Ambassador nerf
Good.
>DR nerf
Meh.
>YER """buff"""
Absolutely stupid.

is that dicking around /v/ server still going?
i never tried it and finally feel like it

Alright so what are we expecting in this update?

>massive list of balance changes
>Pyro rework + new weapons
>Jungle-themed map(s?), cosmetics, and potentially new weapons for other classes too

This is pretty friggin massive, but here's hoping there's a lot of bug fixes and performance improvements too. I can run the game just fine but I remember experiencing some weird stuttering a few times in the past. It was as if my ping was spiking to 1000 every 10 seconds or so and I never figured out why. It just stopped eventually.

>>386522184
Dunno. I think they host it whenever they find this thread.

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>nerfed the sandman when it already takes away 10 max health

Now how is scout supposed to fight in cramped areas or kill Heavies?

>>386520973
Fact is, Valve isn't working directly on Dota 2. Icefrog is. Same with CSGO, Hidden Path Entertainment is working on it.
Valve must outsource TF2 to another dev, they can't handle it alone.

>>386519971
just let tf2 die so valve can make tf3 and actually make a good game

Literally only the backpack faggots would lose anything and fuck them

>>386522423
Killing Heavies shouldn't be Scout's priority anyway.

>>386522486
>tf3
You really think nuValve could top TF2? The cast, the (forgotten) art style, the atmosphere? Hell, I don't they'd even be able to reproduce how TF2 just feels to play. It took a near decade to even develop it in the first place

>>386522423
>He can't kill a heavy without crutches
as long as they don't use the natascha they're free kills

>>386522486
>tf3
>now with pay2spray sprays

>>386522459
Hidden Path just made the first version of CSGO, Valve updates it and is currently working on it, and from what I just read Icefrog is a single developer employed by Valve

>>386519971
>dead thread

Fitting since this is a dead game

Overwatch is 10x better than this dead trash

Move on already Grandpa.

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TONIGHT'S THE FUCKING NIGHT OR I'M FUCKING KILLING MYSELF

>>386523108
thursday, not tuesday

>>386522938
>pay2spray
So, whenever you press T to spray, you automatically spend 1 dollar?

>>386520973
Blame Valve's lateral management structure. Only people that work on TF2 are the ones that want to work on TF2. Everybody else is in Dota2, CSGO, running under the hood work for Steam, or working on dumb pet projects that probably won't go anywhere or VR.

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>>386523107
Here's your small dose of endorphins, aka (you)

>>386523127
STOP BEING FUCKING RETARDED
INFO DUMPS LAST 3 DAYS MINIMUM
THEYRE NOT GOING TO START A FUCKING INFO DUMP ON THURSDAY
NOBODY AT VALVE WORKS ON THE WEEKENDS

>>386523108
maybe thursday my brother, if its even done I doubt valve will want to compete with the overwatch event today

>>386523318
I need this original image. That's a good fucking Pauling model.

>>386523261
>or working on dumb pet projects that probably won't go anywhere or VR.
That's redundant.

>>386522486
The community will have to make TF3s prototype, it has to be popular and be more than just minor changes, then Valve will step in and hire the team responsible and finish it. Thats how every Valve game besides Half Life was made.

>>386522924
Well I only play on 2fort so...............

>>386523181
Didn't CS:GO have a system where you have to buy a pack of like 50 sprays, then allowing you to spray something 50 times until it runs out?

>>386523328
What's this about 3+ day info dumps?

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>>386523718
In case anyone is interested in the Party Van or already plays on it and wants to see the changes to it.

>>386519971
How do I get SLAM not to fucking kill my TF2 when I exec slam.cfg

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>>386521887

>>386523793
That depends.
What the heck is slam?

>>386523505
>Playing as Scout on 2fort
How does it feel being useless after the first intel rush?

>>386523996
It's like a newer version of HLDJ

some dude on the party van server reccomended it since 1) HLDJ doesn't work and 2) My Stereo Mix quality was terrible

>>386523505
I don't understand how anyone on this planet can play 2fort, let alone exclusively.

It's just so fucking awful.

>>386524876
why is 2fort so bad

is it strictly because so many people play it to the point of annoyance, or is it because it's a bad map

>>386525023
As a CTF map it is fucking horrible. That a testament to how bad CTF is in TF2 but that is a different topic altogether. As a deathmatch map? It is quite good.

>>386524364
Jokes on you, nobody cares about the intel on instarespawn

>>386524876
it's a love and hate thing

>>386522280
Update's been confirmed to have the following:
>rebalancing for many classes and weapons
>new Pyro weapons
>Jungle maps, one made by Valve and others made by the community
>third campaign, this time with more player choice
>skins for non-stock weapons
>competitive overhaul
>3-5 minute SFM short
>tiered cosmetic crates (like anybody gives a shit about that)

>>386525023
It's the worst map for the worst gamemode

>>386525023
Intel room is too far.
You can go to the room, if you are lucky, but you'll hardly manage to get out with the intelligence.
All it takes to stop you is one engi and his sentry.

>>386525109
Oh, the cancerous "don't you dare playing the objective" servers.
Nevermind.

>>386525023
>>386525090
2fort is a bad map, and it all stems from one primary problem: chokepoints

Outside of the bridge area (that's being watched over by snipers), every room is tight as hell. It gives an extreme advantage to defending players.

>>386525360
the intel is impossible on 2fort anyway

>>386525405
2fort is either over in 30 secs or stalemate city

>>386525360
>don't you dare playing the objective
i've only ever seen this on hightower

>>386525360
the game is 10 years old, who cares if people just want to use it as a deathmatch fps

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>>386525135
>competitive overhaul
>3-5 minute SFM short

>>386525135
That comp overhaul better be the second coming of Jesus Christ

>>386525023
It's a product of its time. Valve fucking loved having chokepoints in every map in the beginning.
The golden rule is 3 ways in and out of an area, with enough distance between each so that flanking is possible for ambush classes.

>>386525646
>>386525768
They're just adding an ELO system

>>386523318
>>386523343
based riversizd

>>386525952
Well, I guess that's something.

>>386519971
It won't be the night until the gay International mobashit is over

>>386520973
>>386523261
It has nothing to do with Valve's management, it's because it's too small.

Valve has 360 employees, and shrinking. It's 10 times smaller than other game development companies who run major multiplayer titles.

>>386523780
this

>>386522459
>>386520973
TF2 never had alot of devs before.

>>386527637
Well it sure seemed a hell of a lot more alive before.

>>386527736
Because back then the game was just getting stuff added in.

Now these days theres alot of side grades and hats so they dont need to pump their shit out so much.

>>386527736
>Before
dude it's been dead for 5+ years and dying for 10+

this picture bothers me slightly
every single mercenary besides demo has blue eyes
like, it's not like it's all that hard to LOOK

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>>386522486
You mean Overwatch?

>>386527876
>Can't see soldiers eyes
>Engi having brown eyes
>Medic having red eyes?
>Sniper having green eyes
>Spy having red eyes

What are you smoking?

SAY SOMETHING I'M GIVING UP ON YOU

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>>386528009
But Overwatch is better than anything a Team Fortress game can ever be?

they literally perfected the teambased shooter?

putting TF2 next to OW is like putting stale bread next to freshly baked bread directly from the baker

>>386523780

Come join us lads, at 8 people, we need more for some good ol fashion TF2. Plus testing out all the non-meme maps.

>>386528039
in the game, they all have blue eyes

>>386528219
We just voted in helmsdeep, which is an excellent map.

>>386528126
Exactly why OW is basically TF3.

When is TF3 coming out?

>>386522423
>he thinks taking away 10 max health is such a HUUUUUUGE downside
nigger the Sandman literally lets you completely stun a person in a single shot, rendering them effectively dead instantly since a stunned player is guaranteed to die 90% of the time

a 10HP penalty is nothing compared to that, retard

>>386528126
I know you're trolling but seriously, I'm getting sick of people comparing the two games. They're very different.

>>386519971
>middle tooth

>>386528528
50/50 my man, It is two different games that are within the same genre, just like CoD and Battlefield are or MTG and Yu-gi-oh.
I play OW when I wanna win, I play tf2 when I wanna pubstomp

>>386525614
Then go to a community server, don't fill valve servers with that kind of autism.

>>386528126
>>386528271
stop shitposting thanks

>voting in Crash maps
stop doing this thanks
he's a nice guy but his maps aren't fun to play, they have too much wasted space and the actual play space is always boring

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>>386529091
You just have to accept that a good game in the Team shooter genre was finally released so now no one have any reason to play with you backpackfags anymore, essentially killing your bloated mess of a game.

It's going to be so fucking good when Tf2 dies and all of your backpacks become worthless

Have you seen this /v/?
http://armsrace.tf2maps.net/vote

>>386528740
OW is 50/50 enforced win rate: the game. It nerfs your damage behind the scenes when you are on a winning streak.

>>386529465
>Literally lying
It's okay anon, just because you're bad and not improving doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.

>>386529353
Yep, and it's fucking nothing as usual.
>The "Arms Race" website has been created by CM. This project is not affiliated with Valve. May 2017
Gee Valve, thanks for promoting this contest for a bunch of community-made items that aren't actually going to make it into the game.

>>386529594
It's been confirmed, though.

>>386529736
show me confirmation anon and I'll believe you

>>386529736
Different anon but I've never heard that and I strongly suspect it's bullshit. They just had a World Tournament so I'm pretty sure that would have been exposed by now if it were the case.

There are plenty of valid reasons to be upset with Overwatch. No need to make stuff up.

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>>386529309
I don't really want to respond to bait but what the hell I'm waiting for a download to end and some people might be dumb enough to believe you
>You just have to accept that a good game in the Team shooter genre
overwatch isn't a good game in the team shooter genre. It's barely even a shooter, since so many of the characters do things as their primary function that isn't shooting
it's got a lower skill ceiling than tf2 due to a much lower focus on aim, movement, and player skill. slow movement speeds, a lack of skill-based movement techniques, abilities being locked behind cooldowns, and a glut of automatically aiming or wide AoE attacks makes sure of that.

it's got way less content than TF2, because TF2's weapon loadout system allows for 10,000s of ways to play while OW only has 25 ways to play, and TF2 has 10,000s of community and official maps while OW only has like 40 official maps

TF2 has better game design than OW with better visual clarity, better level design, and more customizability. The player has more control, more choice, more counterplay, and more clarity when they play TF2 as opposed to OW

In every possible way apart from graphics, TF2 is a far better game than Overwatch.
>It's going to be so fucking good when Tf2 dies and all of your backpacks become worthless
all my cosmetics are from scrap so I don't exactly care, they cost me nothing

Overwatch is rapidly dying as it stands, which is why Blizzard refuses to release playercounts, and TF2 will most likely outlive it, like it outlived all the other games that tried to imitate it and failed.

the only reason OW has gotten as far as it has is because of Blizzard's advertising power, but you can only feed people fancy shit for so long before they realize it's shit

>>386529697
would you prefer that they not promote it?

>>386530014
>40 official maps
Dude I wish Overwatch had that many maps. It's got like 25 if you include all the maps that have different sections (like Badwater in TF2).

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>>386530080
I would prefer it wouldn't be just a bunch of mods. At the very least they could implement the most 'upvoted' item into the game as part of the grand prize or something.

>>386530596
stuff from arms race competitions before has got in game i think

>>386530804
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=229437379
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=478659501

>>386530014
> It's barely even a shooter, since so many of the characters do things as their primary function that isn't shooting

every character have shooting on the left mousebutton except mercy, who can change to a sidearm.

>it's got a lower skill ceiling than tf2 due to a much lower focus on aim

Depends on character select, S76 requires good aim, tracer requires good tracing and reaper requires good tracing/Snapshotting

>movement
Movement is unique to every character, making it much harder to have good movement on all characters and it's a lot harder having good movement on tracer than it is on scout.

>and player skill
OW is actually competitive, the TF2 scene have been dominated by Froyo for how many years?

>slow movement speeds
Other than rocket/sticky jumping OW moves at the same pace/faster than Tf2

>a lack of skill-based movement techniques
Genji & Tracer have that.

>abilities being locked behind cooldowns
so you having to manage abilities now requires less skill?

>and a glut of automatically aiming or wide AoE attacks makes sure of that.
S76 is the only one with autoaiming and there are, not counting ults, almost no AoE abilities in the game.

>it's got way less content than TF2
So it's got less maps than a 10+ year old game?

>cause TF2's weapon loadout system allows for 10,000s of ways to play
but even when you change your loadout your basic playstyle almost never changes, scout is still run&gun, soldier is still raining rockets from above.

>and TF2 has 10,000s of community and official maps while OW only has like 40 official maps
Of which 9000 are shit meme maps and the rest are meh at best with a few good maps between, almost all made by the community, not valve

>TF2 has better game design than OW with better visual clarity
I disagree, but this is a personal preference

>better level design
While OW have some shit maps like Anubis Tf2 have 1000 shit maps to every halfbad map OW made.

1/2

>>386530014
>>386530976
>In every possible way apart from graphics, TF2 is a far better game than Overwatch.
Sure it is buddy

>all my cosmetics are from scrap so I don't exactly care, they cost me nothing
but you do agree that backpackfags are the literal cancer of Tf2 and also a large part of the community?

>Overwatch is rapidly dying as it stands, which is why Blizzard refuses to release playercounts
Which is something you yourself decided, the worldcup is going on right now and it seems to have no issues getting viewers.

>and TF2 will most likely outlive it, like it outlived all the other games that tried to imitate it and failed.
any game before OW that tried to "imitate" tf2 did exactly that, tried to imitate tf2 which is why they failed, OW isn't trying to imitate tf2, if they were don't you think they would have taken the cosmetics option from tf2? all they did was make a team based shooter but to any and all tf2 fans, tf2 is the only teambased shooter so any other team based shooter must be a ripoff

>the only reason OW has gotten as far as it has is because of Blizzard's advertising power
Or maybe it's because it's a fresh new game that's actually fun to play.

>but you can only feed people fancy shit for so long before they realize it's shit
I dunno senpai, people are still playing tf2 after how many years of literal nothing and just making the game worse?

>>386519971
I wish there was more mvm content....

>>386530976
Fuck me, why don't you space your posts a bit wider there, OWnigger? You aren't taking up enough of the thread.
>every character have shooting on the left mousebutton
That's not what takes up the majority of kills.
> S76 requires good aim
He has a LITERAL AIMBOT.
>Genji & Tracer have that
You have no fucking idea what "skill-based movement" means, do you? And you can name two characters out of a 25 character cast? All 9 of TF2's characters have bhop, surf, and airstrafe. Four of the stock characters (almost 50% of the cast) have skill based movement techniques and with weapon unlocks, all of them but Sniper and Heavy do too.
>and reaper requires good tracing/Snapshotting
Reaper's Shotguns have a spread the size of a fucking barn. It is just not possible to miss if you have a mouse and a brain.
>Movement is unique to every character, making it much harder to have good movement on all characters and it's a lot harder having good movement on tracer than it is on scout
Utter fucking bullshit. All characters in OW bar three move as slowly as the second slowest class in TF2. Tracer is pressing a button to flash away when you get into danger. Scout is aggressively dodging and double jumping intelligently around the heads of enemies to avoid damage.
>OW is actually competitive
Competitive=/=good. I could hold a competitive noughts and crosses tournament, that wouldn't make it fun.
>the TF2 scene have been dominated by Froyo for how many years?
A skilled team can dominate. What exactly is the problem? This isn't overshit where a single slight meta change makes a hero totally useless and now the teams who use him are dumpstered.
>Other than rocket/sticky jumping OW moves at the same pace/faster than Tf2
An utter fucking lie. See above.
>so you having to manage abilities now requires less skill?
Having an ability which puts itself on a cooldown you can do nothing about RESTRICTS player skill. Ability cooldowns gimp good players.
1/2

>>386530976
2/2
>S76 is the only one with autoaiming
straight up lie
>and there are, not counting ults, almost no AoE abilities in the game
Don't say "not counting ults", ults are a major part of the game.
S76's aimbot ult, McCree's aimbot ult, Winston's autoaim gun, Symmetra's autoaim gun, Torbjorn's autoaim gun, Genji's autoaim reflect.
Reinhardt's aoe smash, Junkrat's aoe ult, Pharah's aoe ult, Reaper's aoe ult, Mei's aoe ult. All off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more.
All completely skill free.
>than a 10+ year old game?
How the fuck is that relevant? It wouldn't matter if TF2 was 1 year old or 100 years old, it still has more maps than Overshit.
>but even when you change your loadout your basic playstyle almost never changes, scout is still run&gun, soldier is still raining rockets from above.
If you boil it down that simple then you can make anything sound like it never changes. "Tracer is run&gun, reaper is run&gun, s76 is run&gun, mccree is run&gun."
Flares, boots, banners, shields, sandviches, parachutes, bows, throwables, and various other items lead to 10,000s of notably different playstyles, compared to OW's 25 different playstyles, some of which notably overlap (eg the tanks).
>almost all made by the community, not valve
Literally irrelevant. I don't give a fuck who made them if it's a good map.
You're grasping at straws here to dismiss TF2 having more content than OW. It's an unavoidable fact that TF2 has way more fun content.
>Of which 9000 are shit meme maps
>Tf2 have 1000 shit maps to every halfbad map OW made
The worst maps of TF2 are the standard official maps of OW. That's how bad OW's entire map roster is.
>backpackfags are cancer of Tf2
Why should I care? How does it impact my game?
>it seems to have no issues getting viewers
Twitch viewers are people not playing the game dumbass.
>Or maybe it's because it's a fresh new game that's actually fun to play
"Skyrim is a fresh new game that's actually fun to play". -you

>>386531034
oh and 1 thing I missed
>OW isn't trying to imitate tf2, if they were don't you think they would have taken the cosmetics option from tf2?
What do you think CRATES are, you drooling retard??????

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>>386534687
>>386533940
>Responding to a redditor overwatchkin
Just let him squirm, he knows his game doesn't hold water under scrutiny and will have to go f2p soon if blizzard doesn't want it to die.

Weaker but more mobile sentry that follows the engineer

Yay or nay?

>>386535016
Literally even if it was F2P I wouldn't take the 10 minutes' time to bother downloading it. Not worth it.

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>>386535253
Mini-sentries already fill that role and engineer has no problem getting behind the enemy team for ninja sentries in pubs, no thank you.

>>386535253
Yay if they can balance it
Nay otherwise
My turn: Dispensers now can heal and provide ammo (but not metals) when the Engineer hauls it, making him a mobile dispenser. Yay or Nay?

>>386522459
hidden path only made the base game and it was terrible before Valve took over

>>386535289
Not him, but a friend gifted it to me and I still felt ripped off. CoD players coordinate better than those fucking subhumans.

>>386535253
>>386535320
>>386535395
Alternate suggestion

Completely rework Engineer's stock Sentry gun so that it upgrades quicker and redeploys extremely quickly, but rather than hitscan bullets, fires homing missiles that move faster than a Scout can run.

This would make Sentries more offensively useful and make Engineer more able to be played on the front line without being total cancer to play against.

Y/N?

>>386522280
Also, they were talking about an ELO type ranking system for cacual play, in order to (maybe try) to match people evenly. (Even though that won't happen)
Also, there will be an animated short (5 mins) and a new comic hapter (not 100% sure about that)

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>>386536024
>homing missles
So, bullets?
Engineer isn't cancer by any means, just a walking skill/teamwork check.

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>>386522280
Don't forget hats and I think someone talked about a solo campaign somewhere.

>>386536183
>So, bullets?
No, homing missiles.
Have you ever played Quake? There was an enemy in it called the Vore who shot homing missiles that followed you around corners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yngl5S3tXIA
It would be like that.

Engineer has two problems: his aimbot is low counterplay, and he's not very good on offense. I wanted to change that by making his Sentry easier to move up, but players wouldn't like fighting against highly mobile Level 3s, because Lv3s just destroy everything in an area once set up with its hitscan aimbot, even if you dodge.

Since Doom 2 we've known that fighting against hitscan attacks is kind of cancer. Projectile attacks are a lot more interesting because they can be dodged in-flight, which gives them a lot more counterplay.

So, changing the Sentry's hitscan aimbot to a homing projectile launcher instead, firing rockets that move fast, would make it more fun and interesting to play against. You could lead the homing missiles into walls, smash them into each other, smash them into the Sentry that fired them, etc. But since they'd have 135% movement speed they would still be able to outrun Scout if he fucked around for too long or tried to seriously cap an objective they were watching.

In exchange for this downside, Sentries would go up almost instantly, upgrade easier, and drop the haul speed penalty. This would make them easier to haul from point to point.

Sentry would still fulfill its roles of area denial and countering Scout, but it would be less defensive, more offensive, and more fun to play with and against.
Thoughts?

>>386528126
>only 4-5 competitive viable characters each season.
>game has been constantly shifting to dive comps since release.
Might as well manually disconnect when you get put on defense to avoid that mandatory loss.

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>>386536928
>not good on offense
>what is the Jag
That sounds fucking dumb senpai, don't change engineer just because 99% of "people" who play him plop down sentries in dumb, overplayed spots and think the dispenser goes behind it instead of up where your team wants it. Engie's purpose is to give your team ground to hold and/or provide a forward base, not be a worseDemoman with an optional teleporter/dispenser.

>>386523780
Ill probably join inbtonight a little after work.

>>386537249
>>what is the Jag
It's not good enough on offense to make Engineer a viable offensive class. It actually doesn't affect building redeploy speed at all; go test it ingame some time.
>don't change engineer just because 99% of "people" who play him plop down sentries in dumb, overplayed spots and think the dispenser goes behind it instead of up where your team wants it
That's not why I want to change Engineer at all. It has nothing to do with changing it for bad players, it's changing it for the best players.

Even at the absolute highest level of play, even using Jag or Gunslinger, Engie is defensively too strong and offensively too weak. He isn't worth running to mid viably. But he's so worth picking on last because have 6 Engineers and you can stall the game completely. If Valve's competitive matchmaking is going to work and be played seriously, this problem needs to be fixed, so Engie can be played full time without being gamebreaking.
>not be a worseDemoman
He wouldn't be a worse Demoman. He'd still be a guy with 125HP who creates buildings from a metal supply, including an autoaim building, dispenser and teleporter, fires a Shotgun, has a Pistol, and moves at 100% speed.

That would be different from demo in every way except for the ability to fire a projectile.

>>386537423
it's dead atm, but it picks up at about 3PM PST.

>>386520973
There's no reason to. The game still makes shitload of money without having to pay for more people. This has been the longest time in-between updates and the drop in players is barely noticeable.

>>386538013
>There's no reason to
Don't give Valve ideas. Besides, TF2 could be 10x bigger than it is now if it had more continuous support.

>>386529951
Literally everyone believes it and there's lots of threads about it.

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>>386537620
I'm fully aware it doesn't affect redeploy, which is already rather quick if you're not dropping the sentry directly in front of the scout and are using level 1s/2s instead of 3s like an idiot.
>engie is too strong defensively
Oh no, someone who can stop a faceroll of scouts and pyros! Whatever will the enemy team do besides for kite the stationary object with corners/use uber/ use the fucking loch-n-load and just remove it? If anything about the engineer needs "fixed" it'd be nerfing how well he works in tandem with several engineers, and that would be easy by just giving a class limit of 2 on a team of less than 12 people.

>wanting competitive to work
That's a huge mistake, that shit will take all of the fun and charm out of tf2 real fuckin quick. It'd frankly be the easiest and quickest way to ruin the game.

>>386519971
So I have been playing on and off from 2009.
I use to go top of the score bord as pyro engi scout and was good with every thing else.
Why is it now I come back after 2 years I feel like if I'm not playing soldier I'm not doing any good.
Like with any class I get 2 kills a life but as soldier with black box and heal pack I can go 10 kills in a row.
Did they buff him or just nerf every thing that counters him in to the drit.

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>>386538527
Because you're rusty and the black box is a stupid overpowered piece of shit.

>>386538437
>Oh no, someone who can stop a faceroll of scouts and pyros!
Yes, that's a good function of the Engineer, and I want to retain it. Let's say for example that the new Sentry's homing missiles did 125 damage and moved at 135% speed (2% faster than Scout). If each missile fired once per second or something, then a wave of Scouts/Pyros rushing an objective would be easily dispatched by it. So it would still stop Scout facerolls.
>Whatever will the enemy team do besides for kite the stationary object with corners/use uber/ use the fucking loch-n-load and just remove it?
I'm speaking from experience: When playing against baseline competent players who are stacking Sentries, all of these methods take far too long to work, if they work at all.

Take down 1 Sentry gun and you still can't push in because there's a second Sentry that you have to destroy. Take down that second Sentry and there's a third one behind it. While you're focusing on the third one (which is difficult because there's a fourth one watching its spam sightline), the first and second ones are going back up.
A lv3 Sentry has the second highest DPS in TF2, the second highest HP in TF2, the highest healing rate in TF2, and its main weakness is that it's totally immobile. This makes it unviable offensively and stalemating defensively.

My goal is to make Engie full-time viable on offense, making him more fun to play as, and remove his boring stalemate causing potential on defense, making him more fun to play against.
>That's a huge mistake, that shit will take all of the fun and charm out of tf2 real fuckin quick
Not true. All the 9 classes will still be fun and unique if changed to work for competitive play. Only 5 of them need to be changed, and not by a whole lot.

Besides, whether you like it or not, it's happening. Valve have already stated their intention to balance the game around competitive play. TF2 will be competitive like Dota and CS:GO are. It worked well for them.

>>386538527
>Did they buff him or just nerf every thing that counters him in to the drit
This one. Welcome to soldier fortress 2.

>>386538527
Black box/banner is made for people who can't play the game without a medibeam their your ass 24/7.

>>386539072
>black box is OP
dumb opinion. Black box is used less than stock in comp and pubs by a wide margin and has not won a competitive game for about 6 years. It isn't overpowered.

The truth is it's a crutch. It makes better players perform worse, but it makes bad players perform better.
>>386538527
>Like with any class I get 2 kills a life but as soldier with black box and heal pack I can go 10 kills in a row
Because you're playing against shitters using a crutch loadout.

>>386539074
>rushing an objective
Or they could just walk back behind the wall and disjoint all the proposed projectiles.
>stacking engineers is hard to push into
Again, class limits could be a thing.
>dude level 3s lmao
But building level 3s on offense has never been viable, that's what putting 1s and 2s and minis behind corners is for.
>stalemating defensively is bad
But that's the point of defense, to stop the enemy team from doing the thing. Besides, tf2 doesn't need to be a game where you're either shooting people or being dead 100% of the time.
>its happening, look at these dead games!
It's not happening, competitive ruined dota and valve basically doesn't handle cancer:go's matchmaking.

>>386539372
>Or they could just walk back behind the wall and disjoint all the proposed projectiles
True, but they won't be able to cross through the space, because a new projectile will come at them every second. It's basically the same as the current Sentry in that regard.
>Again, class limits could be a thing
Class limits have a variety of problems. For example they lead to afks/griefers/incompetent morons taking an important class and doing badly or being AFK, which leaves your team as fucked. It means people can miss out on playing the class they enjoy. And it means that you see a less wide variety of strategies.
It's better to solve the underlying problem. Making Engie less defensive and more offensive would improve pubs too. Even with class limit of 1, competitively played and pub played TF2 is still slower and less exciting than the old Team Fortress games because of strong defensive elements.
>But building level 3s on offense has never been viable, that's what putting 1s and 2s and minis behind corners is for.
level 1s and 2s on offense aren't viable either. Engie walks too slowly while hauling, and puts them up too slowly on offense.
>But that's the point of defense, to stop the enemy team from doing the thing
Sure, but if you make defense too strong, then symmetrical game modes never come to an end and never have a winner, or at least have long periods of waiting where nothing interesting happens.
>It's not happening
Anon, whether you think it's happening or not, TF2 IS getting balanced around competitive play. That's why http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=30147 most of these balance changes were made: for comp play. Driller explicitly said so in an AMA.

You can either give good feedback that meshes pub and comp gameplay in the most fun way possible, or you can watch as compfags turn the entirety of TF2 into the same 6s that they've been playing for 9 years. If pub players don't speak up, 6s players will dominate discussion.

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>Oh yay a tf2 thread
>Filled with autistic wall of text answer chains

>>386540263
Fuck off le friendly pootis heavy.
>legitimate game discussion is now "autistic"
No, you're just retarded.

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>>386522423
>or kill Heavies?
Killing heavies as scout is one of my favorate things to do, if they haven't got a pocket you can just put them down in 3 meatshots.
Jump all over the place, run around them in a clockwise fashion, then when they adjust, jolt back in the opposite direction.

>mfw "I just got fucking scouted"

>>386525135
>tiered cosmetic crates
>tired cosmetic crates
FTFY

>>386523505
>2fort
>trench warfare: the TF2 map

>>386540263
So anon, where's your favorite picnic spots?

Can someone pinpoint for me where the overwatch faggotry ceases in this thread?

>>386535253
^

>>386541328
Here you go

>>386540884
that would be Dustbowl

>>386519971

It should have created more classes instead of using unlockable weapons. Would have made the game easier to balance in the long run.

>>386544434
Creating a good character takes a lot more time than just adding sidegrades.

>>386544434
Nah.
Modular weapon loadouts allow for 10,000s of different combinations of weapon, whereas set classes only allow preset gameplay for each class.

Also when you have a lot of characters they all become blander because you have less time to put effort into all their personalities. And it doesn't really make it easier to balance, look at Overwatch's terrible balance.

>>386522895

>you really think nuValve could top TF2?

Wouldn't be that hard. Just find a new artstyle that will set it apart from all of the other cartoon class based games, don't use unlockable weapons, and don't let the community design hats.

>>386544761
>don't use unlockable weapons, and don't let the community design hats
Bad post.

>join server
>choose class that is no one on the team is playing as
>do so well, that 4 other players switch to that class
>change class to balance team
>repeat

Also, fuck battle medics.

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What features would you like to see in Team Fortress 3?

>>386544691

10,000's of different combinations is arbitrary and almost invariably leads to cutting into the uniqueness of other classes. A class that is completely static is completely self-contained and thus easier to carve a definite niche for in comparison to other specialists.

Overwatch is terribly balanced because its team is both mediocre at balancing and has no real design philosophy for classes. TF2 did.

>>386544840

Just stay in your decrepit, bloated game and don't touch TF3.

>>386545349
>and almost invariably leads to cutting into the uniqueness of other classes
It's not a big deal if it's nonstock and only a minor cut-in.
For example, let's say Pyro has the Detonator allowing him to rocket jump like Soldier. That's not a big deal because he's still different from Soldier in many other ways. The two classes are still unique experiences, just with a minor similarity.
>A class that is completely static is completely self-contained and thus easier to carve a definite niche for in comparison to other specialists.
That's the thing. It's static. It's not dynamic. So you have maybe 30 or, at most (if you want to go full MOBA) 100, set playstyles, compared to 10,000s of unqiue playstyles.
The second option TF2 currently uses objectively gives players more depth, and it's what everyone is used to.

You also didn't address my point about character. A small cast is easier to focus character into to make them as likeable as the TF2 cast. A big cast ends up with a lot of bland, one-dimensional characters. See OW and MOBAs for an example.
>>386545437
Go fuck yourself nerd, I do what I like.

>>386522078
>Ambassador nerf
The nerf they are giving it is silly. Adding RNG to a skill-based weapon is completely contradictory and making it more likely to miss will still allow headshots at long range. Simply just make it so that the Ambassador can't get headshot crits outside of 1024 HU or something.

>DR nerf
DR doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework. Right now it's way too easy to use it and bullshit your way past anybody that doesn't have Mad Milk. The amount of effort it takes to counter the DR is far too disproportional to the amount of effort it takes to use it.

They should remove the afterburn immunity during the first 3 seconds and make it so that if you end the cloak early, the speed boost ends with it. Then increase the damage resistance up to about 80% and make the damage resist linearly decline from 80% rather than 65% during the first 3 seconds. Reduce the amount of cloak gained to -50%. Destroyed building parts should also be affected by the "-50% cloak gained from ammo".

>YER "buff"
It's a buff for people who were bad with it and a nerf to people who were good with it. 50% faster cloak drain leaves the Spy with only 66.67% of the cloak duration. DESU, they should just add the "Use all cloak to gain a disguise". It's a minor buff which should make it more viable in the beginning. If faster cloak drain is really needed, just make it 25% faster, giving the Spy 80% of the cloak duration.

>>386522423
-15 max health didn't take the Scout through any major kill thresholds other than a Rocket Launcher 1-hit killing on a direct hit at very close range. -25 max health would be more appropriate.

>>386545987
>Adding RNG to a skill-based weapon is completely contradictory
Well technically anon they're actually taking some away. "50% more accurate" means that all shots the Ambassador makes will now have less RNG.
But I agree, I'm not happy with the nerf either. I'd like them to change the Ambassador's critical hits to simply triple damage (with falloff) and give Ambassador a quicker recovery interval in return.
>Simply just make it so that the Ambassador can't get headshot crits outside of 1024 HU or something
They said they weren't going to do that because it's simply too hard for a player to judge whether they're in headshot range or not.
I mean, are you aware at all times of how many Hammer Units you are away from your target?
>DR doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework
Agree. It's only good against bad players and useless against good ones.
>-25 max health would be more appropriate.
I'd prefer it if they reduced the duration of the Sandman's stun, because shit is cancer. I see where you're coming from though

>>386545987
Don't the DR only take 34% of ammo cloak?

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I just uninstalled tf2 for the 4th time and hope I move on for good since I've wasted 1.5k+ hours on this shit game.

Though sometimes I feel depressed about my shit life then remember how good it felt to steamroll nerds with scout/demo and suddenly I'm installing it again. It's a vicious cycle.

>>386547135
your mentality definitely seems like that of a scout player
let me guess, you wear bright paints on all loadouts

yea the update should have been released months ago. if gabe doesn't want to get off his fatass and give some orders to his lazy team then I'm done with the game

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Sorry for shitty cosmetics, I am poor

>learn yesterday in a thread that if you hold down M2 while spamming stickies as a Demo, they explode as soon as they are charged
>apply lessons learned today
>top of the score board with like a 30 point difference between me and the next guy

DEMOMAN
TAKES
SKILL

>>386547221
The problem is not with the team being lazy, the problem is with the team being small
Valve is asking 15 people on the TF2 team to serve a playerbase of 1,700,000 people and create an entire major content update on their own

All up, Valve only hires 360 people, which is 10x smaller than is normal for the industry.
That's why everything they do is slow and often buggy, because there's nowhere near enough manpower
>>386547278
>shit randomly thrown together
if you can't afford good cosmetics that match, just wear less hats, anon

>>386547374
>play against shitters
>call class easy
Head on over to an MGE server and try and fight people as Demo, anon. Then you'll understand for real.

>>386547530
Yeah, anon, go to see how competitive faggotry sucked all the fun from this game.

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>>386547464
How about now?

>>386547760
MGE isn't competitive, dumbass. It's a 1v1 practice mode for becoming a good player.

>>386547764
Much nicer honestly. Matches

>>386547530
Raped by scouts I assume?

>>386547464
thats like exactly what I said. fucking hell

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>>386545154
Not that it's ever going to happen but I'd be worried about the cast. TF2's mercs have become so iconic that I fear any replacement would be outshadowed.

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Post fave fives

>>386548215
>thats like exactly what I said
you complained about the tf team being lazy, not about them being understaffed

>>386548408
Medic 220
Soldier 194
Scout 184
Demo 182
Sniper 164

>>386548612
when I said team I meant entire game team (anyone who can work on games in valve). ya know the people who just lounge and do whatever they feel like because hurr no hierarchy lets just be fat hedonists

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>>386548408
Engi doesn't count because my little brother used my account to play tf2 and he loves Engi.

>>386548408
You're a heavy guy.

>>386548726
Even if they changed their work style it's still only 15 people working on a major content update. Even if they dedicated EVERYONE at their company to working on TF2 (obviously not going to happen since CS:GO and Dota are so big), the development team size would still be 10x smaller than is normal.

We shouldn't be calling them "lazy" or they won't listen to us, we should be telling them to hire more people.

>>386548910
4 Uber

>>386523318
woah, valve is going all out with their marketing

>>386549082
On which board did you guys find it? I can't see it.

>>386519971
The update will be the week after next week, 22nd of August. You heard it here first folks

>>386548408
Don't have it on hand right now put it should be something to the tune of
>Engie
>Pyro
>Scout
>Soldier
>Medic

How to fix the Buffalo Steak Sandvich.

(+) Click to eat. While under the effects (20s): Gain a speed boost when damage is taken (+40% for 3s), regenerate 5 HP per second (75 total), and attacks mini-crit.

(-) While under the effects (20s): player may only use melee weapons.

(?) Alt-fire: Share with a friend (Medium Health Kit)

>>386549828

>stacking the speed boost with eviction notice on-hit speed boost

Have you ever seen a heavy run at targe charge speeds?

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>that guys that's at the top of the scoreboard with like 20+ score than the rest of the team
>tfw you press tab one day and notice you've become that guy

>>386546456
1024 HU is the distance at which the Ambassador begins to do its minimum damage of 17.

Alternatively, something memorable like 1100 HU could be used (the distance a Rocket Launcher shot travels in 1 second as well as the range of a Sentry Gun).

>>386546767
It used to be that whatever metal you picked up, it would be capped at giving you 40% of your cloak meter. In the Gun Mettle Update, they changed it to only giving you 65% of what you picked up. This means that Large Ammo Boxes give you back 13 seconds of charge of a 20-second cooldown (as little as 10 seconds if you come out of cloak early).

>>386550081
it would be crazy, but wouldn't be OP since the speed boost would only apply when heavy took damage (so if enemies didn't think themselves capable of killing Heavy they could choose not to attack)

>>386550146
>tfw you join pretty late but top the board when the match ends

>>386550146
Everyone on /v/ is/was 'that guy'

But tf2 has less than 1% of the value it once had

>>386549828
i like it, sort of like demoknight for heaty
people would only use KGB with this though, none of his other melees really suit

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>playing as soldier
>low health
>about to shoot rocket
>engie places sentry right in front of me
>boom

>>386552131
I would use the Warrior's Spirit or Eviction Notice with it.

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>>386519971

>stock RL
>shotgun
>disciplinary action

best soldier loadout. disagree? then you're a fucking pleb

>>386552543
nah fuck bear claws they're shit. Stock fists or eviction notice would be good, KGB would be good, and holiday punch would be good.

GRU and KGB dominate heavy's melee loadout, that's the problem

>>386552747
disciplinary action is legitimately OP

>>386552747
You are correct, although I have a soft spot for Concheror.
Self-sustainability gives me boner

>>386552842
>GRU and KGB dominate heavy's melee loadout, that's the problem
Buff everything else then?

>>386553437
>Buff everything else then?

no that's fucking stupid sorry

why would you buff like 6 weapons when you can nerf 2 instead

valve works slowly enough already without giving them more work

>>386553437
How would you buff stock?

>>386552747
>he calls others a pleb while not running Gunboats
KYS your yourself

>>386553658
that'd be a nerf to the entire class efectively, which isn't exactly OP

>>386553727
Oneshot kills.
>>386553658
>why would you buff like 6 weapons when you can nerf 2 instead
Because melee is completely useless and has no point at all to be in the game, so make it interesting.

>>386553892
well GRU is getting nerfed by valve in the upcoming patch anyway, and KGB is a meme outside of Medieval and meme loadouts so that wouldn't majorly impact heavy
>>386553914
>Because melee is completely useless and has no point at all to be in the game, so make it interesting
melee is in the game for the purpose of being a backup when the player runs out of ammo or needs to reload all their weapons. that's the way it's been since quake.

it doesn't need to be any more than that, since it's an unskilled, low-counterplay method of attack with a really buggy hit detection system
>Oneshot kills.
oh, so you're retarded

>>386554261
>oh, so you're retarded
Not an argument. Oneshot kills would make Heavy's stock melee interesting and actually useful.

>>386554392
yeah man its a fantastic idea to give a oneshot melee kill to a 300HP tank lol
you know what else is a fantastic idea? drinking bleach, try it

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>Put up dispenser
>Put up mini sentry right next to it
>Hide behind dispenser when heavy comes past
>CLANG CLANG CLANG
>Heavy has to choose between destroying dispenser and ignoring the sentry or going for sentry and getting widowmakered
>heavy.exe has stopped working
This is always fun.

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>>386554680
>Have Doctor behind me
>Nothing of that matters

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>Everyone always talks about how dead TF2 is
>mfw can regularly find at least 2K active servers
>Still have as much fun as I've always had

I just don't get it. People are constantly bitching about how the game is ruined but I don't see it. Where does the whining come from?

>>386554874
Usually the medics either don't ubercharge or don't even have one ready when I do this.

>>386554978
It's /v/, people are going to whine that people like what they don't like, and how the slightest playerchange is either x BTFO or y Dead

>>386553914
>melee is completely useless

If fishkills didn't exist I'd probably never play scout

>>386554978
overwatch faggots, plus people who are mad their favourite server died and don't want to search for a new one, so they write the whole game off

>>386555209
this is another thing, because melee is weak it makes for a good humiliation weapon

>>386554978
It's not that kind of death. It's like being in a coma, you know. Technically, you are alive, your organs work and such. But in a way you are also dead.
TF2 has solid numbers but that's not enough to ignore the big problems the game has, like a totally clueless playerbase (thanks to a steep learning curve for newbies and in-game tutorials being absolutely shitty), matchmaking being a clusterfuck, some classes having a bigger competitive advantage over other ones and slow updates.
I love TF2, I play TF2 but I'd lie to myself if I had to say "Yes, the game is not dead and perfectly fine".

>>386555568
>plus people who are mad their favourite server died
This is a thing? Fuck I've been playing this game for almost a decade and I've always just picked servers at random

>>386555732
not him
>like a totally clueless playerbase
I'm in a pub server right now and a good 75% of the team on both sides seems to know the basics of what they're doing.
>matchmaking being a clusterfuck
do you mean comp or pubs? comp is a failure, but casual isn't as bad as it used to be, definitely not "coma" tier. I hop into games within 10 seconds or less of starting a search and I have fun.
> some classes having a bigger competitive advantage over other ones
true but doesn't really affect pubs
>and slow updates
I wish that they would update quicker, but just because a game updates slowly doesn't mean it's dead.

Chess hasn't had an update in like 500 years and it's still popular. TF2 is a fundamentally good game with a hell of a lot of content (maps, mods, weapons, classes, cosmetics) to play with. It doesn't need constant addition of content to be fun.
>I play TF2 but I'd lie to myself if I had to say "Yes, the game is not dead and perfectly fine".
Perfectly fine? No. Dead? Bullshit.

>>386555961
>This is a thing?
yeah, some /v/ posters were apparently so attached to specific servers they quit entirely when those died. stuff like fighting amphibians and old party van

I hope they fix being able to jump in and out of casual games though. I hate queue systems, and limiting casual queues to six people puts a huge damper on fucking around in a group. I'm gonna miss cleaver combos but I'll be the first to admit they're a broken mechanic I abuse to eliminate the enemy top-scorer or pockets. I hope the pyro rework is good and I hope heavy returns to his former glory, he was never an overpowered class.

>>386556305
>he was never an overpowered class
heavy is OP on defense and UP on offense

for him to work, they need to rework him to be more mobile and slightly less tanky
eg:
>nerf HP to 275 (he'll still be the highest HP, but not so extreme)
>decrease minigun dps from 550-55 to 500-50
>increase accuracy of minigun
>decrease movement speed penalty while spun up from 60% to 25%
>allow heavy to swap weapons while spinning down