One of the biggest complaints about Metroidvania's I've

just never think xp leveling was necessary or even a good part of these games, look at the namesake for metroidvania

>>386482340
Level caps. Either

Strictly enforced: you cannot raise your lvl beyond a certain cap until you discover and defeat the boss that breaks your limit up to the next tier, this happens frequently throughout the game similar to Gym Badges in Pokemon

Soft enforced: when you encounter a boss or a room meant to be a trap or contain a difficult encounter, the room will be "cursed" and lower your level or scale it down if you're beyond a certain limit.

>>386482340
Portrait of Ruin is hard as fuck on a fresh hard mode file. It also has replay value out the ass.

>>386482485
Even for Castlevania it was never a good idea, since you get better gear, skills and extra HP and MP as you progress anyway.

>>386482340
make it dark-souls-based so you lose XP and levels if you die too much

also cut down on the trash enemies. make every new room of draculas castle have a trap or monster that can kill you if you aren't prepared/skilled enough

I was really surprised that they got Richard Armitage to play Trevor.

The thing is that in Super Metroid, all equipment you find is meaningful, you never beat a boss just to get some shit sword that you never use ever. Also, since there's no RPG leveling mechanic, if you're stuck at a hard part you've gotta git gud or go explore to find some upgrades, you can't just grind. I don't really know how to describe the flaws with the Metroidvania games other than that the gameplay/level design feels "loose", as opposed to tight level design.

Not all of them are too easy, but the one you posted is a huge offender. Any game where you can outlevel the content is going to be easy to a certain extent though, it's just about balancing it right so it feels like there's something at stake when you are in level appropriate areas.

>>386483030
Hollow Knight kind of did this by tying all progression to your items and then making it so you can lose the monetary currency you need to buy upgrades(you do keep upgrade materials themselves though). I think it worked pretty well.

>>386482958
not really on the difficulty part, and I kinda disagree with the replay value.

Yeah there's a shit-ton of weapons, sub-weapons, and spells, but enemies, especially on hard mode, will end up being weak to a certain type of damage type. So you'll just end up switching to obviously the damage type that hurts it the most, otherwise the fight is just tedious. Most enemies have 1-2 moves, and most bosses have like 2-3 moves.

A way to fix this in my opinion would be to pick particular spells/weapons/sub-weapons and go through sidequest(s) that let you upgrade one of them. That way, if you find yourself really like the icicle spear spell you get early on in the game with Charlotte, you can make a build around it as it gets bigger/gets more icicles/does more damage/maybe slows the enemy for example. So even if you come across a boss that is resistant to ice, if you only upgraded icicle spear in your playthrough up to that point then you have to tough it out and beat it with that or a very weak spell that you didn't level up at all.

>>386482340
Castlevanias always had alternate character modes and challenge modes to add plenty of replay value. Richter Belmont mode with the Level 1 cap, Julius Mode or Axe Armor mode are so radically different from their base games that they're worth spending time with.

Not to mention the flexibility Castlevania has with self-imposed challenges thanks to its RPG mechanics. Playing through SotN with nothing but the base punch attack is something that's totally doable.

I never played a Castlevania before but kinda want to.

Which would be a good one to start with?
Which is the best?

>>386484502
just play them in chronological order but feel free to skip Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest.

>>386484614
What's wrong with that one?

>>386483537
>not really on the difficulty part, and I kinda disagree with the replay value.

Well then you're just flat-out wrong and I don't know what else to tell you

>>386482340
Just make a randomizer already

>>386484937
He's probably talking about the original with the useless text and cryptic shit. Find the Re-translated version, it adds a map and the npcs are actually useful. Makes the game 10x more playable.

>>386484502
if you like classic platformers more, play the nes trilogy, make sure you play the retranslated version of simon's quest though and the japanese version of dracula's curse

if you like metroidvania style games, play symphony of the night

>>386483191
I think it feels loose because there's very little defined intent for the player, they're just supposed to follow section by section until they hit a boss room. In most Symphony+sequels I've played, the only part actually designed for anything specific is the boss fights. As far as I can tell, the hallways in between are basically filler. It's not like they don't give you a save point to restore all health and magic right before every boss, so the battles in between aren't meant to wear you down. Likewise, the hallways aren't challenging much in platforming because they're designed to be easily traversed in multiple directions and with multiple weapon/skill sets. So the harsh platforming of the classic castlevania series is basically not present. So the reason that the games are loose is that they are just a bunch of filler exercises to give you levels for the bosses, which are the only real "meat" of the game. There are a few exceptions I can think of, but only in sparse cases like in clock tower areas, or in the early parts of order of ecclesia. I admit that my view is limited however; I've played a number of the games but have only ever finished one or two. I inevitably get bored of how easy and how samey the level design is, and I stop being interested. There may be more enjoyment in hard modes, but for me the act of having to unlock those by beating easy/normal or doing other things more or less invalidates their existence in the first place, so I don't consider them a valid answer when you have to slog through the boring base game to get to them.

I think that if you like boss fights and don't mind some pointless and weakly designed platforming/combat sections, and enjoy some grind and equipment unlocks, then it's the kind of genre you'll like. But otherwise they don't have much to offer.

>>386486864
Not against the idea but why play the Japanese version?

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>tfw series is dead

>>386487554
it's much more balanced difficulty wise than the nes version, such as not having nearly enemy do 1/3 of your health when you get hurt near the end of the game, also the music is way better

>>386485848
im wrong because i dont think one of the easier entries in an already easy series in difficult?

sounds like a personal problem you have buddy. get it sorted.

>>386486942
>I think it feels loose because there's very little defined intent for the player, they're just supposed to follow section by section until they hit a boss room.

and not to mention there's really no exploration because you only have a single route to progress the game since everything else is inaccessible because you haven't unlocked the corresponding ability (super jump, mist form, etc etc)

I thought that Hollow Knight's health system was a good way of keeping challenge intact in a Metroid-style game. Keep the health pool extremely limited but make sure everything in the game is telegraphed and dodgeable and give the player a means to heal while they explore so they don't have to keep retreating to safety.

>>386483046
He did a good job I thought.

>>386483191
>in Super Metroid, all equipment you find is meaningful
>What is the Spring Ball

>>386486121
It's still a tedious and boring game with lame enemies and lazy level design.

Even with Redacted it's still a piss poor game that doesn't compare to it's prequel or almost every game that follows

>>386487625
Who knows? That Netflix miniseries might show Konami that there's interest. At least I thought it reviewed well.

I mean I doubt it, but a man can dream

>>386483030
Salt and santuary.

>>386488032
>one of the easier entries
Not him but that's just wrong, hard mode level 1 puts it above every other game besides OoE.

>>386488032
I don't believe you've actually played PoR on a brand new file on hard mode. It's definitely hard (especially for the first half) and that's not really contestable. You just sound like you're talking from your ass

>>386488963
i'm at least looking forward to bloodstained, and metroid finally getting a revival may show konami that castlevania can still be popular

>>386488301
This is not really true at all in the game you seem to be describing (SotN). The regular castle does allow you to choose when to go to several required areas first, and then the inverted castle is entirely open-ended.

>>386488301
Right, and unlike something such as, say, super metroid, they don't really give you the impression that there's more to it. And unlike the first metroid, you don't actually have a lot of different ways to go and places you can reach.

Things like that are why I sharply prefer the classic castlevania games. They have level design and enemy encounters that you remember, not listless hallways that all run together.

>>386489497
Maybe its just because PoR was one of my favorite games and I 100%'d it several times and did the other hard modes first that I found hard mode level 1 not really that hard, just tedious.

ill defer judgement to others. but i dont think its a stretch to assume that veterans of the series shouldn't have too much trouble with hard mode level 1

>>386489983
>They have level design

Literally every traditional castlevania is just a hallway going left/right or a vertical passage going up/down

there's no level design

>>386490089
>did the other hard modes first
On the same file? Because you get huge stat boosts if you do that?

>>386482340
A perfect Metroidvania would be CotM + DoS +PoR
>Several gamemodes
>Different characters and starting stats, as well as abilities
>Basic vampire hunter mode/Party mode/Soulsucker mode.
>Different unlockable storylines, multiple endings.
>Quests and skills to learn with different characters
>Monsters of already cleared areas change and get harder as you progress through more advanced areas.
>Normal and Hard mode.
>Boss Rush, Arena AND time attack.
>A shitton of secrets.
Can't possibly surpass this.

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271KB, 720x375px

>>386487625
I'd say the miniseries sparked some interest again. And there's also stuff like Lecarde Chronicles and other fangames.
If Konami didn't hate money they would release HoD for PC.

>>386490321
No.

>>386490089
I hopped onto Portrait of Ruin for the first time in a few years and started a fresh file (not new game+) in hard mode. I died like dozens and dozens of times. You take massive damage against everything and a handful of enemies are definitely faster than they are in normal. I'm sure my time away from the game exacerbated things, but I have done several totally complete runs of the game before and was especially hooked on the game when it released. I've been a CV fan for several decades and can breeze through CV3 like it's nothing.

So what is the Super Metroid of the Castlevania series?

>>386482340
Super Metroid and SotN are top tier Metroidvanias in my opinion. Play through legit and then start mastering the glitches and sequence breaks to prove your skill and knowledge. That's how I'd make a Metroidvania

>>386482340
Is Maria supposed to look like she has Down's Syndrome?

>>386489764
>bloodstained
Don't even bother trying to discuss kickstarter games on /v/ before they release. Just results in endless shitposting from faggots hoping for another 3.3 debacle.

>>386490893
It's kind of silly to call a Metroid game a metroidvania. It's just Metroid.

>>386490807
Depends on what you value from the comparison. For movement tech and skill ceiling then probably Symphony. For just regular quality as a game then maybe Aria.

>>386490274
That's just incorrect. The levels of classic castlevania games are all designed to offer some kind of challenge based around how you navigate the environment. They're carefully considered to how the player (especially the first time cv player) is expected to move, and then challenges those expectations with unexpected results. The one Medusa head sequence with pits, in cv1 level 2, the one that new players die on often. It very cleanly demonstrates that thoughtless movement is going to cost you lives. That kind of design permeates the games. They build levels and place enemies in ways that, when combined with your limited moves and delayed inputs, force you to learn the character, evaluate their strengths and weaknesses, and execute a sometimes complex sequence of challenges to succeed. That kind of thing basically doesn't exist in the Symphony-style games. At least, not by what I can remember. The only way that I remember Symphony and similar games being hard is in optional bonus modes or when purposely limiting yourself.

>>386490274
This is like saying every painting is the same since they're framed.

>>386491609
I guess I meant it as a "Most diehard fans of the series agree that this game is one of, if not, the best entry" kinda way