>Smash 4 players >"Bayonetta has to be banned. Touch

>Smash's entire appeal is the crossover part
>The only Smash fans who think it's the gameplay are those whose favorite game in the series is the one with the worst gameplay

Climbers need to be together to pull off the wobble, and at top level play it just takes a single shine to separate Nana chase for the kill. Plus in Melee matches are 4 stock and faster paced.
Bayonetta is in a slower game with 2 stock matches, where getting touch of death is much more significant. She has amazing recovery and can't be gimped, and has shit like Witch Time if you go aggressive.

That said I still don't like Melee Icies, and I'm betting its cancer when watching a tournament with a lower overall skill level.

>>386385894
Wobbling was literally banned in a major amount of tournaments for several years.

Nice try tho.

Not defending wobblers, but the only reason it hasn't been banned is because they're not prevalent. If the top melee players happened to be chain-grabbing Ice Climbers it would be banned in no time. AFAIK there's only one at the moment.

The difference is even though it's been eroded over the years, Melee really does come from the "don't ban it unless it overcentralizes the metagame" standpoint. So while there are factions (EC) that want things like BF only or Wobbling banned, there's enough old blood with proper consistent philosophy to keep things going.

On the other hand, Smash 4 came largely from the Brawl people who were always ban happy. Lots of things ended up banned in Smash 4 without ever being tournament legal in the first place (or properly tested) because it was assumed to be broken. To be fair to Smash 4, the game is designed so poorly that matchups have a larger effect than player skill compared to Melee, where there is a larger gap between top and bottom but player skill supercedes so much of this due to options/movement/ability to punish.

>>386385894
What do you expect from people who ban like half the game

>>386386848
So what you're saying is, you think the main reason anyone likes Smash isn't because of the game, but literally just the fact that the roster involves different series?
I mean, I don't like melee either, but that's fucking retarded.

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Smash 4 players are fine with this.

>>386389859
Is this real?

>>386385894
If wobbling was as broken as people say, how come there aren't ICs winning majors?

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>>386389859
WHAT the fuck is this shit?

>>386389859
>Smash Bros is a fighting ga--

>>386389859
I blame the Rage mechanic partially, and the other part for how poor the multi-hit knockback is implemented. This happens way too often in Smash 4.
The only equivalent to this in previous Smash games was Roy's reverse Up-B hitbox.

>>386390083
Comeback mechanic. Sakurai wanted anyone to be able to win regardless of skill.
>Rage is a new mechanic in Super Smash Bros. 4, where a character's attacks will deal increased knockback as his or her damage rises.

>>386389987
>>386390083
Certain moves that are intended to hit multiple times have a strange knockback property that may kill certain characters instantly if only one certain part of the attack connects. I don't know any specifics but I've read about it before. I think Ike's Up-B and one of the Mii Brawler custom moves are also capable of this phenomenon.

>>386389859
isn't that a custom?

>>386385894
I know absolutely nothing about Smash 4 but the ICs are terrible even with wobbling.

>>386389859
Smash 4 is broken and unbalanced at its core; there's no way to fix this with a ban. Samus isn't single-handedly overpowered, this sort of situation can happen with most characters with a high percent of damage. Maybe if Rage wasn't such a powerful mechanic, that'd be one thing, but it's not like Nintendo would go out of their way to balance the game in a way people want, especially now that they've given up on the Wii U.
Besides, I've seen Cloud/Bayonetta/Corrin do far more unbelievable things than this. Those last three DLC characters single-handedly made me quit the game, because it's pretty much just Nintendo saying "we don't care in the slightest about balancing the game".

>>386390208
Hackurai is at it again. Fucking shit.

>>386385894
Pre-nerf Bayo was the best character in the game by so much it was laughable. She didn't just have zero to death combos, literally everything about her was broken. Even now she's still widely considered the best character, but before the nerfs banning her was 100% correct.

ICs literally only have wobbling, take that away and they're low tier. Plus they can't get a wobble off ANY grab if you're playing smart, especially if you seperate them or kill Nana.

who gives a FUCK about this FUCKING PARTY GAME

do you complain about power stone being imbalanced? you don't, because it's not a fucking fighting game.

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>beg for a cuh-ray-zee character for your """"fighting"""" game
>get mad when that character is cuh-ray-zee OP because no other character can really check her
the smash community, ladies and gentlemen

>>386389859
https://youtu.be/faXnOd-RC7s
Reminds me of this. The game can get pretty janky, but it's still nothing compared to Melee shenanigans.

>>386390475
you seem to

icies are cheap but shit
bayo is literally just broken just like the rest of the game

>>386390475
Mario party is a party game
Which by the way is good, and can destroy friendships if take seriously

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>>386389752
>So what you're saying is, you think the main reason anyone likes Smash isn't because of the game, but literally just the fact that the roster involves different series?

Yup. Explain to me why every other Smash clone game has failed miserably even though they copy Melee gameplay. No one cares because it isn't iconic characters.

>>386390208
>Sakurai wanted anyone to be able to win regardless of skill.
If you're actually "skilled" at the game, you wouldn't allow your opponent to be hanging that far above 100% for that long of a time. The Luigi player in >>386389859 had every opportunity to KO Samus, but instead of going for big hits to finish her he tried chipping away at her health and got punished as a result.

Rage works like that, and it's fine. No longer can you spam 1-2% damage moves to take out opponents; you have to either get in there and knock them out or you get your shit pushed in when they finally retaliate.

>>386390475
>>386390562
Party game is not a genre.

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>>386390475
>>386390495
>le epic hardkore fighting game bros come into a thread about a game they don't like just to whine about people who like the game

>>386390524
This is the problem with Smash 4's smaller blastzones, half the cast can practically jump up to the upper zone.

>>386390728
it's an unhealthy obsession

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meleefags will defend this

>>386390597
No, no one cares because those games are just shitty, carbon-copy clones of better games with better physics and more characters. Everyone can figure out how to emulate Melee, why bother shelling out cash for some pixelshit clone?

>>386390765
It's not smaller blast zones, it's that everyone got much higher jumps and MUCH better recovery.

Except Little Mac. He's got bad recovery even by Melee standards.

>>386390597
>Explain to me why every other Smash clone game has failed miserably even though they copy Melee gameplay
Because they don't offer the same gameplay. This is like asking ''How come Kasumi Ninja on the Jaguar wasn't well received, despite copying Mortal Kombat's gameplay?''
Because it's not as good. Plain and simple. Every Smash clone to date has put their own spin on the formula in some way. Even Rivals of Aether, which has wavedashing, doesn't play anything like Melee.

>>386390860
Corneria is a great stage what are you talking about?

>>386390765
>>386390937
Similar shit has happened in Melee too when getting shined by Falco.

>>386390860
CAMON

>>386391130
Falco was the only one who could chase you up into the upper blast zone, and only off of platforms.

Many Smash 4 characters like Sonic and Bayo can do that shit on FD.

>>386390860
*blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip* *blip*

Meleefags have overstayed their welcome on this planet

Post your mains, your favourite stage and worst MU.

Marth, Battlefield, Shiek.

>>386391393
>Stop enjoying thing
Just hide the thread, aspie.

>>386390939
That Icons thing is Melee in all but name, so it'll be the ultimate test of "nothing else did it right". Hint: Its primary attraction is it's a crossover fighter

>>386391513
>Want to talk about Smash 4
>REEE STOP ENJOYING THING by meleefags

Same for you autismo

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>>386385894
>bitching and sperging about a literal party game

cringing and laughing hard atm.

>>386385894
because Meleebros like using their game to the full potential and break limits while tr4shfags are like Brawltists who ban everything. tr4shfags also unrionically use tumblr safewords like "toxic"

>>386391404
don't really have a main yet i've been playing the majority of the "good cast" for a little bit over 2 years now. fox maybe? hes too fun

pokemon stadium never ban it

falco but only because thats the only character my friends/netplay shitters want to play

>>386391592
Who are you quoting right now?

>>386391404
Falco, FD, Fox

>>386391592
>crying about shit in a bait thread

>>386390238
Multi hit moves are meant have knockback that chains hitboxes into the next hitbox, but if you angle some at weird angles like Peach's parasol it doesn't lead into the next hit and instead just hits once with a crazy amount of knockback. Coupled with rage (comeback mechanic that multiplies your knockback when you're at higher percentages) it allows what you see in that webm.

>>386391520
Icons looks fucking awful. Everything about it seems cheap as fuck and I can guarantee you that all those Melee-esque combos(even had a literal Ken Combo) are actually guaranteed like in traditional fighting games, and not dependent on DI or anything like that.
What makes Smash combos fun and interesting is how you have to react to your opponent's DI to take your combos further and use DI mix-ups to extend them. Not dissing on fighting games that have set combos, but if you're going to try to copy Smash, you should know this.

>>386390629
You're retarded as fuck.

>>386390629
>No longer can you spam 1-2% damage moves to take out opponents
Isn't this what Smash 4 more or less boils down to though? It's extremely dependent on neutral with a very limited combo game made up of safe combos like dthrow into aerial, which only work at low %. Since defensive options are so strong, there hardly is a punish game either. You bait out approaches like in any other game and get a grab or something, so you can do your guaranteed damage. Repeat until you get over that threshold where those guaranteed combos won't work.
At this point, you dance around in neutral until someone overreaches and takes a bair or something, which knocks them off-stage and would set up for an edgeguard, but those are heavily nerfed too, so they have a pretty easy time getting back to stage. Edgeguarding in Smash 4 is almost entirely built on reading air dodge on top of the regular low/high, on-stage/ledge mix-ups for recovery scenarios. It just drags the game down to a very slow and finicky game to play.
In Melee, living over 100% is hard and stressful, because you're at a huge risk of dying to a strong blow and even if your DI is on point, you will have an extremely hard time getting back on stage. I guess they're just meant to be different, but I've always thought that 100% was the limit and anything above that is extraordinary.

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>>386390193
The problem I have with the rage mechanic is that the knockback system already sort of did the same thing.
It may sound wrong, but being at a higher percentage is actually beneficial in that it makes it harder to combo you. Take a character like Marth, for example. He has a lot of great combos that can completely destroy stocks, but he's awful at just poking the character until they eventually die. There is a funny term called ''Marthritis'' being throw around to explain that difficulty to finish an opponent off. This is because those devastating combos will no longer work.
I guess since Smash 4 doesn't have those combos, they switched it up to give a player with high percentage a better chance to make a comeback. Or, it may just have been a side-effect of the whole knockback system and no one really thought of it.

>>386387701
But that's the thing. ICs can't be prevalent because they're just not good enough as a character. They score wins against people who the player is much better than, or who don't understand the matchup and how to break them up.

If they could be prevalent, they already would be.

>>386394139
They are underrepresented for several reasons. I'm not that anon and I don't think Wobbling should be banned, but you're arguing that Jiggs is worse than Falcon here.
>Play drastically different
>Difficult barrier to entry, high mid level success, hard wall
>looked down upon in community as lame
>boring gameplan at mid level, WD jab/ftilt grab and WD dsmash
>little representation so it discourages newer players
There are several characters that aren't seen nearly as often in Melee as they should be for various reasons. I'm pretty sure there are more Luigis than ICs and Luigi is just straight up worse. There were once more Roy players (we're talking 05 here) than ICs even though ICs were clearly better. Better isn't always equiv to popularity.

>>386393545

You're right, Sakurai just created a more obvious comeback mechanic because without it FG matches would take 15 minutes instead of 10

>>386389859
some characters have a one-hit KO thing once they reach +150% of damage.
Usually happens with Up-B + rage. Ike does the same, and Mario with low-weight characters

>>386390475
>LOOK AT ME DO I FIT IN YET