Is this a legitimately bad MMO or are people just being unfairly

>>386357223
>What do people even want from MMORPG's now?

Ragnarok online woe

>>386357223
they want an MMO that isn't 99% grinding, 1% shitty PvP

>>386357330
>they want an MMO that isn't 99% grinding
Wrong. That's exactly what MMOshitters want.

>>386357591
Korean MMO players, maybe, but clearly not Americans. Otherwise BDO would be more popular in the west.

>>386357223
>was told to be a fun sandbox MMO with players being able to be traders/explorers etc.
>looked promising with best character creation system ever created
>some other company takes over now
>they want devs to scrap everything and turn it into a shitty grind MMO
>they release this crap
Why Koreans are so fucking retarded?

>>386357704
It's a top seller on steam alone. You're also ignoring the other two extremely popular MMOs that are nothing but 99% grinding and 1% shitty pvp.

>>386358275
well have fun with your pointless afk grinding, I guess

>>386357223
No, it's quite bad. It's just a korean grinder that's been dolled up with bells and whistles. You may enjoy it if you really want the experience of working an unpaid minimum wage job.

>>386358536
I don't play MMO trash. I'm simply pointing out the fact that this game is exactly what MMOshitters love.

>>386358725
but it isn't

>>386358823
It is. Those numbers don't lie.

I want pre-NGE SWG to come back. Particularly before every random jackoff was a Jedi

>>386357591
oh so that's why WoW is so popular, the game where you get everything you need thrown at you for doing the most mundane shit, got ya

>>386357223
>What do people even want from MMORPG's now?

For it to be a new experience.
Lots of people all playing a game at once isn't new. Exploring worlds isn't new. Quests with friends aren't new.
Every MMO is just a rush to reach endgame because everything before that feels like filler.
MMOs are often pretty poorly designed, the main merit of them is that you get to play them with lots of other people.

After a decade of the same shitty systems and tropes, you're going to be tired of it.
It will never be new again. Let the absolute turd of a genre die.

>>386357327
This guy gets it.

>>386359176
Not the same person but, do you know WoW is dying right? People that played MMO before are tired of grinding and new kids are into mobas

>>386359217
Exploring new worlds is new. Exploring new quests is new. What modern mmos need is a leveling system that takes its time but doesn't make you feel useless if you're not maxed level. Tough to do because that requires so much content to keep you playing and interested before you reach cap.

>>386359152
You might want to check SWGEMU. It's a pre-CU server emulator. Don't know if someone is developping a CU server emulator though, if that's what you want.

>>386359462
dying, no shit
it still eclipses trash grinds like BDO

>>386359176
>game where you get everything you need thrown at you for doing the most mundane shit
Just because WoW is more lenient doesn't mean it isn't a grind. There's nothing else to do in the game but grind, no interesting and branching quests lines, no depth to the gameplay mechanics, you'll just be grinding for gear/money or you'll be playing the shitty PVP.

There's absolutely no difference between these two games.

why are people so obsessed with pvp modes on mmo's?

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>>386358253
EIGHT GODDESSES

>>386359462
>WoW is dying

My favorite meme. You're saying people aren't interested in playing a 15 year old game? Or is it dying because it doesn't have the 14 mil subs it had during peak of wotlk? I wouldn't call a game that has 3 - 4 mil subs "dying"

>>386359694
Because pve content is generally static and boring after you've run the same dungeon 100 times. Competition in pvp also gives people goals to work for, and drives them to get better gear or get better in general to compete.

>>386359694
Because MMOs sale themselves on player interaction and conflict is the best kind of interaction.

>>386357223
actual progression instead of mindless grinds with rng gear upgrade

>>386359809
>>386359859
By PvP "mode" the presumably mean the garbage that is instanced PvP instead of glorious world PvP/RvR.

>>386359217
>Every MMO is just a rush to reach endgame because everything before that feels like filler.
This is what turns me off of MMOs fast. I don't necessarily want to reach endgame instantly but I'd like the non-endgame content to be fun and meaningful. Just look at runescape, it takes a long time to reach max level in any skill but there's still a ton of content before you reach that point and the game doesn't make it feel like everything you've done prior to reaching a high level is totally worthless.

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>>386357327

This. Amongst with lots of tiny little things both from RO and other MMOs of its era.

>>386360010
World pvp is generally garbage. I remember some fun fights on a pvp server playing wow but most of it was just groups or higher level players ganking anyone and that wasn't enjoyable for anyone. Camp people for 5 or so minutes at a quest hub or flight path, then move on to the next one by the time anyone had a chance to call for help.

But the handful of fights that were fair were exciting, and memorable.

it's a different world and a different playerbase now
mobas are in 2017 what mmos were in 2005, just deal with it

>>386358253
>looked promising with best character creation system ever created
Which it wasn't hilariously enough.

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do you know why modern mmo's are shit?
cause there's no castles to conquer for your guild
i mean you fight other guilds because yes or because some coins that you receive
i miss lineage days where we would join to take a castle, this gave us a sense of acomplishment dude.

>>386357223
I play on a everquest progression server and it's more enjoyable for me than ff14 or bdo.

>>386360404
tfw no medieval Eve Online

>>386357223
I always just wanted MMO's to be like a normal genre game, but with thousands of players on the same server at the same time. Next game which is going to deliver in that regard is WWII Online which started in 2001 and now comes to Steam with a rather big revival and lots of work.

Anybody interested in military simulations should check it out.

What I want in crafting:

>RO War of Emperium for PvP, optional battlegrounds and arenas
>Wakfu importance of crafting and gathering, and the XIV intricacies of crafting
>Tibia style player housing where plots are limited, fixed, but not instanced like XIV making key locations very special and sought after
>Rift style world invasions and events that heavily affect the zones
>Path of Exile passive trait trees for trinity role jobs with active trait trees too

>>386360470
Err, what I want in an MMO as a whole.

>>386357223
No real endgame other than grinding.

Otherwise, at it's core it is a better game than most MMOs.

>>386358253
>Why Koreans are so fucking retarded?

Because that's what Koreans want. They want a shitty grind with pay 2 win god items in a cash shop.

>>386360461
I'd advise you to check out Mortal Online which is pretty shit (it's on Steam with unlimited trial) or Darkfall New Dawn which isn't released yet, but can be played on an Indev server.

>>386360461
fucking this
mmo's should be hard but should also have rewards for it's challenges just like eve online

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>press button to auto run
>game locks you into the road and literally runs toward your objective
NEAT
>your character fucking smashes into literally every single NPC and cart and other player character, tripping all over himself and making the entire route completely unpleasant
WHY CODE THIS IN

>>386359809
>Because pve content is generally static and boring after you've run the same dungeon 100 times.
And yet the average MMO player hasn't even completed 10% of the dungeons/raids in their game of choice. The whole "PVP is more unpredictable" argument is made entirely by the kiddies who have exhausted all other content and have nothing better to do, and they make up an extremely small fraction of the player base.

>>386357223

looked up some guy playing it, spent something like 5minutes just to kill a single monster that didn't look threatening.

So what's a good MMO? I recently got into War mane WoW with my gf and it's decent fun.

>>386359176
This.
>b-b-but this mmo...
MMO's selling less than 10 million copies in the west need not apply

>>386360883
I don't disagree with you, especially with how pathetic people are on the wow forums. But some people just don't enjoy pve content. Not the people you would think would be interested in an mmorpg, nor would I build my game around those types but most mmos do, and they become profitable.

Game devs may start to care about making a fun and enjoyable game but the publishers quickly make it about the money and control the decisions. We won't get a "good" mmo until some autist wins the lottery and can completely fund the game on their own without big business up their ass.

>>386359809
When I was younger I thought this was a legitimate argument, but why does it have to be a MMO? MMO's are worth at everything they do that could be made in regular games which make more sense to play. You get recognitation even in games where it's only 5vs5 or MMO's don't even offer modes that make them MMO's and it's also just small scale. What's the point of fighting other players in a MMO? I think it's just players who wish to profit from having better gear. In other games this concept of my character is my gear doesn't exist, if I want to PvP I go play a game that is fair, offers great gameplay and thrive. MMO's only strength is RvR in the open world.

>>386361053
FFXIV is pretty easy to get into. There's an unlimited free trial up to level 35, so feel free to give it a try if you want.

The combat kills it for me. Slashing emptily, all attacks feel like aoe, and overwhelming particle effects.

Name three (3) active MMO's today that are better than BDO.

>>386359719
>Not dying
Strange that Blizzard decide to not make public anymore the total population of WoW and their loses like few years ago.

Strange that towns in the that were full of people at all hours are like a desert in comparison.

WOW IS NOT DYIIIING MATEEEES IS BETHAAAA THAN EVAHHJ!

>>386359809

Sadly when it comes to pvp there's just better options. Take BDO for example, you're gonna have to grind your fucking ass off just to reach the level where its even slightly fair and even then some no life 18 hours a day grind master is gonna still be able to dumpster you with his superior gear. Why bother grinding when you can just jump into LoL/Dota/CSGO and get a better pvp experience?

>>386361350
Do you shills just have a program that checks /v/ for the word mmo so you can swoop in? ff14 is just a big a shit show as every other mmo. It's got all the same problems, only in anime and catgirl form. Your game literally has an option to pay to skip the main story quests that lock behind all of the end-game content.

I want EverQuest Next.
BDO is just another Korean grindfest.

>>386361468
Lord of the Rings
Star Trek
EVE

>>386361527
I'm 26 years old, I feel great, not in as good shape as when I was 20 but I guess technically I'm dying.

>>386360574
China likes p2w, look at all there popular online games

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>>386361527
Strange that profit margins are still readily available for potential investors because it's a public company yet you still cling to your fantasy that it's not being played anymore. Why is it still printing money, anon?

>>386361580
He asked a question and I answered. I like the game, so I recommended it. Nothing else to it. If you feel the need to believe that the only people that like games are shills/bots, go ahead though

>>386359694
It's where people go to foster disappointment and destroy the game.
Everyone screams to nerf X. Then they scream to nerf Y. Then they talk about how the game sucks because the devs changed everything and how it was better when it was X & Y before they changed everything.

BDO is a shit game, these threads constantly pop up, which makes me think you are shilling at this point.

But to clarify, its shit because it sells itself as a sandbox when its really not, all you do in the game is farm life skills and farm xp/money at sausans or pirates, THATS IT. If its a sandbox then its a sandbox with 0 fucking content and a cash shop that has required items in it. Like the 40$ pets you NEED to have to be efficient since they rigged the game to make bodies despawn so fast you can't loot everything, and numerous other problems. People in gookland don't even have max gear yet because of how rigged this game is.

If you want a GOOD MMO play fucking FFXI, but since most of you would complain about the UI or the age of the game, you won't, so just keep wasting your money on trash where you basically don't progress or shit like WoW where your progress gets wiped out every 3 months to make sure you never enjoy your progression.

>>386360816
Because theres no fast travel, good time to go grab a drink

>>386361773

>All these shitty ass chinese mmos coming out soon
>It's all "ACTION COMBAT" garbage with cool downs totally ruining the action combat and mechanics we've seen plenty of times in every mmo since
>They all have p2w out the ass and tons of second life tier emotes

It's fucking korean mmos all over again. Someone give me a fucking mmo that's open world, boss for instances only and has decent fucking pvp with a REAL action combat system that doesn't require me to play it like a second damn job.

>>386357223
It's dead like every other MMO. There isn't an alive MMO in 2017. Just varying types of shambling corpses.

>>386361681
>EVE

Seconded. It definitely isn't for everyone, but the game's community-dev relationship is probably the most healthy in the industry. Add to that how unorthodox a game it is by pretty much any measure, and you have a very sustainable MMO.

>playing on and off since 2007

>>386361554
I mean, there is a reason that those games are incredibly popular because they do what you just mentioned. I guess mmos offer you more of a community with guilds and physical towns with other players around. That would be my guess. I don't dislike pve content in mmos, I like it more than pvp when there's no risk. But even you have to admit that farming the final raid or dungeon you've already beaten a dozen times isn't as enjoyable.

I like it because I can make cute waifus

>>386360461

>>386362059

I'm with you anon. I fucking love mmo pvp but I hate the grind involved. I don't want to spend 8 hours a day grinding just so I can pvp for 30 minutes a day. Sadly though if I've learned anything it's that so many of these mmo players love their pve grind. It doesn't help that companies also use grind for content which is garbage.

>>386360461
Albion Online?

>>386362352
It is unfortunate and I think grind can be content but it makes up a majority of the content in modern mmos. Then again, it would be tough to come up with thousands of hours of unique content to keep players engaged just from a creative standpoint. Not to mention paying the people to come up with that content, the developers to code it, etc. I'll say it once and million times, we won't get a "good" mmo until some autist wins the lottery and has complete control over the direction of an mmo without a big business that's funding it controlling the direction.

>>386360461
There is a medieval Eve online, it's called Albion Online and came out last month.

>>386362457
>mobile trash with no where near a comparable economy or depth of gameplay
kek

>>386361527
Anyone else feel that retail WoW feels more like a chink knockoff than private servers? You enter Org and all you get is walls of chink runes in the trade channel and everyone wearing ridiculous, over-the-top armor.

>>386362778
You mean the game where people could pay extra to get a head start?

>>386362860
I don't know what realm you play on but trade chat is just shitposting in English, and everyone wears bikini armor, or an old tier set.

>>386362002
>progress gets wiped out every 3 months

So you're literally complaining about new contents replacing old contents? Are you autistic?

>>386362908
Yup, like in any other modern game. It's the best and closest to a medieval Eve that you're gonna get.

>>386363043
Last time I played was pandaland so my opinion isn't up to date. All I remember was everyone riding glowing dragons and trade chat being ~50% ching chong.

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All I want is a new mmo to come out that made me feel the way I fealt went MapleStory was popular in the late 2000's, mmo's now have no sense of community like they used to, but that might just be because the internet has changed

>>386363142
That's okay. I'm not going to play a game that punishes you on death but lets players buy an advantage over you. It may be the "best" and "closest" thing we got but it still sounds like absolute shit on paper. And I'm just not desperate enough to settle.

>>386363419
It's because you've changed, anon. You're not easily impressed anymore, you're a jaded adult now.

>>386363426
You don't have to play it, I just mentioned it since a lot of people in this thread seem to like Eve and the devs of Albion were inspired by Eve to make their game.
Other player's headstart only really matters if you're planning on playing the game from minute one anyways.

>>386363736
That's true. I haven't looked at an in-game shop to see what the real life gold currency gets you, but just shelling out 150 bucks gets you a horse to move faster, and a cart to move more resources than everyone else who doesn't shell out that 150 bucks. That alone is poor game design.

>>386363518
I'm only 18, but it's true that I don't get enjoyment from games for very long now but I hope that's just because games are garbage these days and not me being jaded.

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>>386360461
>ARK is the dinosaur version of EVE Online due to server transfers
>My tribe alone has over 1400 members and control most of the servers now
>ARK servers getting wiped on August 29th so everyone will be level 1 again and the bloodbath will begin again

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Well wouldnt you have guessed, everyone is a complete shithead when it comes to mmo's, just play whatever the fuck you like.
I like bdo because of the large amount of stuff that i can do, if i get tired of breeding my horses for money i can go get my musket and hunt a whale, i like the flashy combat it makes the grind seem like less of a grind, i like the idea that im always getting better.

But its not for everyone

P.s i havent spent a dime on it

>>386364004
Oh no it gets worst from there. You'll start only enjoying casual shit, then you'll play the fotm because your friends are playing it. You'll go back and try to play your favorite oldschool mmos like ro, or maplestory but you'll get nothing from it and want to die inside. I'm you 8 years in the future. It's inescapable.

>>386363945
You lose the horse and cart if you get killed while using it, and to use it you need to level up the relevant skills to use it first. There's no in-game shop, the only thing you can buy with gold is Premium, which is basically like Eve's plex. You can play without it, but it's pretty much mandatory because you get more resources while gathering and more fame when killing players.

>>386364212
Jesus, you know what's worst than paying for stuff in a p2w korean shitshow? Grinding for it. I can't imagine the level of autism required to put yourself through that. But you said it, people play what they like.

>>386363114
there is a difference between vertical and horizontal progression, you sound like an actual idiot, so here is the (You) you desperately crave

>>386363518
How sad it is, this is true. What was the last time you talk to anyone online even if they simply asked a simple question about your gear instead of just ignoring them. If you generally find talking on games to be a waste of time than grinding then you can't expect to enjoy the social parts of the game.

If you hate talking with little kids who are the ones most likely to be willing to talk then you can't go far in terms of Runescape when it come to socializing. Most adult players just grind it out knowing exactly what to do. It worth noting the group on /vg/ act much more immature "ironically" than actual kids who at least can pretend to be adults. Don't ever join a /v/ or /vg/ related MMO group, they fucking ruin everything.

>>386364340
It still doesn't sound ideal when you think about 10 v 10 pvp with 10 people being able to move more resources and move faster and 10 who can't. But the fact that you can lose those 150 dollar items on death makes me want to get people in it just to team and hunt people who have that shit.

>>386358253
>looked promising with best character creation system ever created
>half the sliders dont even do anything
>the others barely change features
>this is what qualifies as "best character craetion" in 2017
pso2 did better 5 fucking years ago WITH ps vita limitations

>>386364489
Yeah, /vg/ and /v/ groups are generally cancer. I feel like a lot more adults are playing mmos because it's the kids that grew up with them but any time I ask a question about the game I get, "google it" or someone links me to the wiki. Nobody wants to just chat or talk about the game like it's an adventure and learn things together. And a lot of the fault comes from wiki and datamining.

>>386359694
because even the shittiest player can win 1v1s in mmo pvp if they have better gear

>>386364506
Yeah, but I guess that's just a reality of modern gaming we have to come to terms with. Everything is monetized out the ass.

>>386357223
it's a good mmo if you ignore the grind, complete lack of cosmetics outside of the character creator and the p2w

>>386359694

There's always been demand for pvp. With open world pvp you can fuck around with your buddies and with arena you can try hard. The problem is most mmos now have really dated combat systems and internet connections/netcode can't keep up with modern advances.

>>386357223
There is no world where any person would seriously recommend this piece of shit unless they had brain damage. The whole game is a fucking facade. The graphics don't even look good in game because the lighting is all fucked and ugly and you have the most unreasonably obtrusive UI ever. This game also features the worst pop-in I've ever seen in a game and the worst part is that it is not tied to graphic settings but rather to YOUR SIGHT STAT, so if you want to avoid terrible terrible pop-in you have to stack up on +sight shit. If you have the player lanterns option turned on your game will look like a nuclear bomb just went off. Then the gameplay, you have all these abilities and what at first appears to be action combat, but again, it doesnt matter, because all the NPCs youll fight are completely braindead and you'll never have to dodge unless you're up against a world boss that just 1 shots people at random. PvP wise action combat still doesnt matter because it's so gear and level based that player skill has no chance of getting close to overcoming numerical advantage. On that note, because the game has infinite levels and such a powergap between gear and levels, if you are not grinding 100% of your time, you are wasting your time and will never have a chance to even hurt someone in pvp. Not like PvP happens though, because if you kill like 5 people the retarded karma system kicks in and will fuck over your character for a month if not forever(If you're in negative karma you are always pvp flagged to everyone, they can kill you without taking a karma hit, and when you die you have a chance for your crystals to break and your enchantments to go down[which is fucking insane considering the cost]. In addition the only way out of red karma is to grind[obv] and grind and grind).

>>386365119
So then your only option is GvG, and just like every other shitty mmo it's just a safe zone camping game where one side sits in town until their numbers build up enough to go out of town, rinse repeat. Crafting is shit because NO PLAYER TRADING. oh wait they patched it so you can trade potions and thats it. So rather than crafting being a profession for your character to provide a basis to trade with, crafting is a 100% solo experience and you gotta build all your shit yourself.

There's nothing to find in the world except grinding spots. Your daily gameplay at end game will be using your daily scrolls to fight boring ass daily bosses that are just a larger model of a base enemy that now can 1 to 2 shot you. The node system for trading is about the most in-depth system in the game, but all it amounts to is visiting points in between towns just so you can get an actual price on your shit. Not even the games most hyped feature, WAIFU CREATION, is good because the sliders are so fucking limited that you're either making a waifu that looks exactly the same as the default asian but with different colors or you're making a horrendous abomination. Male character creation is absolutely sorry in that there is hardly any changes you can make to the body. You can make females much larger than you can make any wizard or warrior. Classes remind me of balance, which doesn't exist. For years and likely to this day the only classes that matter are Ranger and Wizard/Witch, and mostly ranger. Everyone is a ranger because ranger is the most OP shit in the game and the devs dont give a fuck about balance because they know anyone playing this garbage is a retard. Player housing is a decent implementation that would make sense in an actual sandbox, but not in this grinding simulator. It's just cosmetic depthless trash through and through and has no impact on anything other than a slight barrier of entry to crafting.

dont buy this crap dont even look at it

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>>386357223
I like it a good deal but MMOs in general are bad. Sandbox games are much better but even they never really manage to do anything exciting.

Think about it. You're not REALLY going on an adventure in these games. You're following a trail of crumbs the developers laid out for you like a mouse in a maze, and there are several other mice following their own trails. You barely interact with others so the "massive multiplayer" part is a big fat lie. There is no opportunity to roleplay as anything other than "guy that fights goblins and makes a living by selling metal ores on the market". It is a huge deceptive sham.

Games like Planetside or Rust at the end of the day manage to achieve all the ideal things we want from MMOs way better than MMOs do. In those games, you are engaging with other players. You are creating your own story, constantly, with ups and downs and all sorts of crazy shit. They may not give you an opportunity to roleplay a variety of characters but at least there's a sensation of adventure in them.

I don't want to see anymore MMOs. They're fraudulent. I want to see more games that are controlled, like 50-300 player matches, with interesting rule sets that create that sense of adventure while giving you more opportunities to roleplay.

>>386364357
Not much actualy, it can be annoying at times but if everything was handed to me it woudnt be fun

>>386365119
>>386365208
This is pretty accurate
The people that say the grind isn't that bad are also the people playing the game for 16 hours a day

>>386364125
>ARK/Rustlikes
>evelike in any way whatsoever
there's a huge difference in the PvP rulesets

>>386364125
Is Ark any good? Or any of those open world survival games? Or is it all just zerging, griefing and PvP.

What MMOs need to be is pretty complex. You need a system to allow people to jump in pretty easily without TOO much grinding, but also have an amount of grind to get to the new content.

I still think to this day that GW1 was the best at this angle. Each expansion kept the power creep super minimal, the level cap never extended nor did you HAVE to purchase new armor. Each new expansion also encouraged new people to join the game and begin in that expansion with added classes.

Another big problem MMOs face is how to reward the players.
MMOs also need
>daily login/monthly bonuses for logging in the entire month
>constant tweaking in balance
Holy shit so many companies refuse to balance at a reasonable rate cough*GW2*cough
>new OC that isn't trash or repeats of old material in the game
etc

>>386366138
>daily login/monthly bonuses for logging in the entire month
>constant tweaking in balance

Both of those are horrible ideas. More-so the first one. If you can't keep your players engaged into the game without forcing them to login to receive their cookie, it's not a good game.

Obviously balancing is important, but changing the damage of spells or what they do, how they interact with other spells every week makes your game unplayable. Not to mention balancing around low-skill players, vs the average, vs the top 5%.

A good MMO has a fair balance of grind and content to warrant the grind.

I think most people just default to WoW because it still has the most content out of any MMO right now. I tried to get into ESO recently, while I didn't hate the game like a lot of people seem to, I got bored of it really fast because it had maybe a dozen dungeons and 5-6 raids and that was basically it for group PvE. Compare that to WoW, just from Vanilla to Lich King, there were at least 30 dungeons and around 20 raids.

So, in a genre that's main appeal is a massive amount of content, WoW easily has the most.

>>386364004
What >>386364219 said.

If i were you i would drop videogames at this point i'm 23 now and i wish i dropped it back when i was 18, its a huge waste of time.

>>386357327
WoE actually made some sense as a PvP objective. I went from RO to WoW in 2005, and was disappointed by the shitty battlegrounds it had. CTF is the laziest minigame you can come up with. Why the fuck would you give a shit about stealing flags.

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>>386365523
In terms of sandbox and freedom to do anything its basically EVE. You can trade, form communities and even be a warlord. You can transfer between all servers for all the above. For example when the alliance was fighting VVG for server #1 it took around 6-8 months of active PVP... In a game everyone assumes you can be wiped in 2 hours.
>You can if you can't into politics or connections

>>386366108
PVP and griefing are together in ARK. Before we attack a server to wipe it entirely we have 2-3 people daily go visit and try to find all the weakpoints in base designs and kill dinosaurs. To soften the target. In PVP its basically 50vs50 in optimal conditions but its usually 20vs80 battles if they don't have active players. I don't have a screenshot but we filled up 6 servers at once trying to annihilate Cobra.

>>386364004
I'm only 20 and the only games that really do anything for me anymore are time sinks. The only games I play regularly now are MMOs and competitive shooters like Rainbow Six Siege.

The only single player game I've enjoyed in the past year was NieR: Automata just because I found the story and characters really charming in a bizarre kind of way.

>>386366596
Games have been part of my life for too long to drop them altogether, but I do agree that they're a massive waste of time at this point.

>>386366959
You could always try games like Bastion for a few hours of interesting story, it's overpriced right now but usually goes on sale.

>>386366637
>In terms of sandbox and freedom to do anything its basically EVE.
That's the point. You don't have complete freedom in Eve. You have to declare wars 24 hours prior to engaging. You have to suffer penalties for killing people in secure space. You have to deal with the idea that 50% of space is owned by NPCs and not a complete FFA.

Best MMO I ever played was Dransik.

Not the 8bit one, the like 2.5D one.

It was more sandboxy and you could have fun just farming for days to make gold, and you wanted to get good loot and a high level to fight the PVP guilds so you could send them to jail and take their loot.

Then you kept coming back because you wanted Talazar to come down and take over towns, but he was super rare. He also had a really rare sword that only one player in the game could get, the deathbringer.

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>>386367248
I've been attacked by my own tribe due to miscommunication and the Cobra spy network they use to have... I get on and halfway through the raid they say my server # and I'm freaking the fuck out as they already wiped 40% of the server and all my guys can't handle the full force of BLDX. China #1.

>>386366637
>pic related they grew up after 1 irl week
>600k mejo berries and feeding every 6 hours or they die

>>386363518
This meme needs to end. yes people change over time but there is no denying the industrey has changed fucking massively from the days of the ps1. I sometimes even think this myself then I stumble on some niche ass game and it all comes flowing back to me. the industry has left me behind to sell popcorn games to the masses.

You are a projecting cunt.

>>386359152

Same, but I want to see a CU emulator. Everyone rants and raves about Pre-CU as though it is the definitive version of the game but no one wants to acknowledge just what a buggy, broken, and unfinished clusterfuck it was and how before CU it was hemorrhaging players like crazy. Nowhere near as many as NGE but still bad.

CU brought its own bugs but was much better than both NGE and Pre-CU in my opinion.

>>386369120
Isn't SWGEmu CU?

>>386369212

SWG Emu (and most of the others) are Pre-CU. So far there has only been one CU emulator in progress which may be discontinued now for all I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Be4zgYLU0

This guy explains why BDO is so good. Don't listen to the bitter contrarians in this thread.

>>386369843
does his opinion outweight those of the people in this thread who've explained why this game will not appeal to the vast majority of people?

>>386369843
His first video on why he stopped playing BDO was so offensively bad and full of misinformation that I couldn't bring watch anything related to him since. He's a major retard.

>>386370206
yes because he gives actual reasons instead of bullshit complaining

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>>386360470
Housing in Tibia is cool. I guess it is harder to see in to other's houses in more modern mmos though.

>>386369843
We know what is good and bad about it. There is no disinfo going on about BDO. It just doesnt appeal to a lot of people.

>>386357223

im just glad I got warned about that p2w invisibility cape before i dropped a jefferson on it. fuck that shit.

>>386358253
Reading about all the shit they had in the old version of the game that got scrapped for absolutely no reason broke my fucking heart.

>>386370296
Tibia has the best housing because:
>Provides highly coveted territory for guilds in high traffic areas or areas near hunting groups, and provides luxury housing with more storage space with convenient spawns
>Can see into most houses through the windows and people can show off their designs and loot without instancing
>Can easily invite, kick, give rights, and talk to people in/out of the house, as well as use it as a safe zone in the event you're attacked
>Gives you something to work toward by buying the lot through a huge bid or from the current owner

>>386370642
Where can I read this? I'd like to see what the game could've been.

>>386357223
a proper sequel for guild wars 1

Any of you hear about Legends of Aria?

https://www.legendsofaria.com/pledge/

Ultima Online 2 apparently?

>>386370296
lol what is this shit, runescape or something?

BDO easily has one of the best combat systems and the only game that comes close is Tera.

>>386357223

This is nothing but a glorified character creator. You'd have to bored out of your mind and desperate to actually, unironically play this.

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Guys help me im looking for a "mmorpg"
Thinking about RS3, PSO2, Skyforge, Albion or GW2 new addon.

>>386357223
It's actual shit. It's like 2 different games in one.

It's like fantasy EVE Online but with Musou, braindead chink combat. Plus the much lauded character creator is garbage that only lets you make KPOP stars.

>>386372796
iktf

>>386372796
can't comment on most of those but skyforge gets pretty boring and put severe strain on my right click button

im trying ff14 but it's boring as fuck with 0 challenge.

>>386372962
>It's like fantasy EVE Online

>>386373181
Played ffxiv on ps cuz friend told me to do. Its boring as fuck im lvl 29 atm but not gone play anymore

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>>386370296
>being some lowby free player
>take a walk around Thais
>ogle at all the piles of cool looking shit people have stored in their houses
I want to go back

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>>386372551
Jesus i created like 5 characters and only played 1 to lvl 15

>>386357223
>What do people even want from MMORPG's now?
could be shortened down to
> what do people even want from RPG's now?

the way i view it, "MMO" is just a genre description for how large the multiplayer is, similar to how "competative" means a minimum of 2 teams with 4-8 players each team.

What's wrong with MMORPGs?
Protip: No one complains about the "MMO" half except when network problems happen.

If you removed every player from the game and went through all content solo as if it were a simple RPG, the gameplay and story (if there is one) would be completely boring shit.

Skyrim with people is not that bad.

>>386360346
It was tho.

What's the mmo with the best combat mechanics?

>>386377659
GW2

>>386377659
Ragnarok Online

>>386374871
Playing ESO make me wish to play a new Elder scrolls with small role-playing servers like in Neverwinter Nights. 100 people at most.

The flood of players in MMO make everything you do meaningless except if you're one of the first players and get really good. I just want a Neverwinter Nights online server type of game. Does someone know of one?

>>386378000
i am playing it right now, i like the game but the classes are boring as fuck
even cabal online had more original classes.

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>>386357223
It's one of the best MMOs out there. One of the few real sanbox MMOs left. MMOs in general are garbage though. Just by being a persistent MMO dooms any game to be an unfun grind.

Currently grinding life skills for 6000 logs.

In GW2 there is any PVP or nah?

>>386378642
try elementalist or engineer

>>386377659
Black Desert for sure. It's like playing dynasty warriors. Tab targeting or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 spamming are terrible.

E.g. on my striker I have many combos that can be chained together. Feels like playing a fighting game which is nice.

Despite its greatest strengths there are numerous small details that make one yell "WHAT THE FUCK WERE THOSE CHINKS THINKING?".

Such as:
>Gear that fails to enhance (after investing millions to get a good RNG chance) downgrades a level
>Terrible RNG-ridden Auction House system (XIANG_JUU buys up resources I need 99% of the time on my server)
>Terrible smaller details like actually needing to purchase a shop item coupon jus to change a mounts name
>Months of grinding needed just to git gud

i couldn't figure out the controls or the UI

worst 5 quid ive ever spent

>>386379312
where on earth do you live where you use squids for currency? zimbabwe?

>WASD to move
>right and left mouse buttons to attack

Damn sure is complex

>>386360883
>And yet the average MMO player hasn't even completed 10% of the dungeons/raids in their game of choice

That's usually because they lock dungeons behind gear or quest requirements that the average player is too busy living life to experience.

You can jump in and out of PVP. You can't when you have to grind with a group as a job to unlock the next dungeon.

>>386366108
I've played a ridiculous number of hours of ARK, and at the start it's pretty fun.
It ends up becoming something like a job though, because there's a constant need to farm and you have to be around to defend your shit and raising dinosaurs is pretty much a 24/7 effort.
The game is also dominated by extremely large tribes, so if you don't want you shit pushed in and everything destroyed every other week, you've got to join a giant tribe with a ton of rules and a bunch of annoying people. They also expect you to farm things, because there is literally no end to the need to farm in ARK.

TLDR: ARK is an incredibly fun game that slowly transforms into a joyless full-time job as you play it.

>>386379290
>>Gear that fails to enhance (after investing millions to get a good RNG chance) downgrades a level
Dude, have you ever played lineage?

>>386379454
>where on earth do you live where you use squids for currency?
Are you this oblivious to the world around you?

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>>386357223
It's one of the worst MMOs made in recent times.

>Laden with graphical glitches, pop-in, hairs look like neon in most lighting
>PVE content is literally farming AoE mobs for hours and hunting the occasional world boss that does nothing more than 'don't stand in the red area, dps for 10 minutes'
>PVP content is completely dominated by people who have been playing for longer and have their gear fully upgraded, and they'll be killing you in 2-3 hits repeatedly while you try to farm the mats you need to upgrade yours
>Life skills all revolve around sitting at a crafting station whilst afk for an hour or two, have no variance or importance since it's just all shit you're going to sell for upgrade money
>Character creation, the game's biggest advertized feature is completely class/gender locked, so if you want to be a berserker, enjoy being a hunched over roidmonkey. Oh, and the sliders, whilst there are a million of them, let you go from 0.1 to 0.2. And everyone ends up having the same shitty korean model face.
>The world is pretty, but there's literally nothing to do other than kill mobs, none of which pose any challenge
>Housing system is completely instanced and has very few customization options
>There are a grand total of like, 10 armors in the entire game, the rest is overdesigned cash shop outfits.
>The game runs like shit, even outside of combat. Good luck being in Heidel on high settings without a supercomputer.

I honestly ask myself how people enjoy this game. There is literally nothing to do except play a shitty resource management minigame and afk for hours. The PVP, even if you can get to it, is nothing special. BDO is the most hollow game I've ever seen. Looks very pretty and attractive on the outside, there's absolutely nothing on the inside.

And this is coming from someone who likes sandbox mmos and really wanted to like BDO.

>>386361831
Image source? Not doubting, just curious.

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>>386368358
Fun fact, young you would play your most hated current MMO for thousands of hours and have the time of his life.

Accept it and move on.

bdo proves why persistent mmo-"sandboxes" doesn't work

give people freedom to do whatever they want and they will abuse it
>uninstanced FFA-guild vs guild warfare
>guilds ask non-participating guilds to show up and bodyblock the enemy
>giant zergs

>getting attacked over your grindspot
>come back and feed mindlessly until the enemy is -1 million karma and can't show himself anywhere on the map without getting killed

i could go on, there's just so mcuh fundamentally wrong with this game and its community
literally pandering: the game

>>386380149
You just have a shitty memory. Games really were made differently 10-15 years ago.

Part of the reason MMOs are so braindead now is because when LoL became huge and the entire industry watched it devour WoW's playerbase everyone dumbed their games down from having dozens of skills per class to having a rotation of 3-6 skills you spam over and over again.

Shit actually does change, and you have to be some kinda retard not to notice that the MMO industry is in a state of extreme creative bankruptcy and stagnancy at the moment.

>>386360470
>intricacies of crafting
Pre-ARR was probably my favorite crafting system before they majorly simplified it to be no different from WoW's crafting. That said all I want in crafting is that I can change/choose the aesthetics, color, and name of what I craft. I like the idea of seeing a weapon or armor in the game that holds such a unique quality I could know who on my server made it. SWG had something similar but dated and we've already been through that games problems in this thread.

>>386372486
>best combat system
>literally nothing but aoe shit and combos without any impact

Go play Blade and Soul for a real combat system, shitter. Too bad the rest of the game sucks ass.

>>386378749
>neon coloured horses all clipping through each other in the corner

The game is shit. And once you realize that that afk grinding you're doing is pointless, you're going to feel like a complete retard. But then again, you probably just want a pretty place to look at full of people pretending to be korean girls where you can post memes in guild chat.

WoW has been "dying" for several years now.

When it finally "dies" 5 years from now people will still gloat while conveniently ignoring that it'll be a 17 year old game.

>>386357330
They get this then complain there's literally no content or end game or anything to do.

I've been trying to get a weapon from the marketplace for 2 months now unsuccessfully. The item in question is worth 500.000.000 silver, and my pre-order is quadruple it's worth, 2.000.000.000 silver, and It's highly unlikely I'll get the weapon until next year maybe. here's the kicker, the item I'm trying to get isn't even the best one.

Enjoy your game, and remember, no matter how much you grind and save up, there will be hundreds of players with ten times more than you monopolizing the end game items in the marketplace.

>>386381512
Well... I did just see a confirmed furry near one of the marketplace npcs...

>>386380609
>WoW players moving to LoL

You're fucking delusional. 0/10, put more effort into the next one.