What happened to this game? >Poor story >Awful combat system

>>386325187
CRPGs are a dead, outdated genre mostly proped up by nostalgia. Any game that tries to target outside the autism niche will fail because the game mechanics just don't hold up to a modern audience.

At least I got to force an orphan to wrestle with an inter-dimensional anus. Can't say that about many games.

>>386325582
This desu

The few modern CRPGs that turned out good, like Divinity OS or Dragonfall, were good because they knew what to change and evolve instead of getting stuck in the late 90s

>>386325582
This.
ARPG is the only PC rpg that still works nowadays.

Is it really that bad? I liked PoE and Divinity, loved Underrail and AoD and even managed to enjoy a small portion of Tyranny (that turned out to be huge disappointment).
I've heard some good things about role playing and variability in numenera, but everybody just seem to hate it for whatever reason. Should I bother with it or just wait till Divinity 2?

>>386325187
>What happened to this game?
As we have been saying since day one, nu-rpg cash in that has absolutely nothing to do with PS:T using Monte "Peniseater" Cooks abortion of a system.

>>386327046
It's the spiritual sequel of Planescape, a game that was supposed to know what made that great and just deliver again, but fails miserably, there's not a single thing in the game that comes close to how god tier Planescape is

It's just disappointing, mostly because it's not made by nobodies, it's made by a lot of people who worked on the original.

It's not shit or awful, but it's quite mediocre

Divinity 2 looks fucking sick tho I'd save my money and time for that

>>386326342
>Dragonfall
>CRPG
It was an SRPG at best.

>>386325734
the amount of loli bullying in this game was satisfying

>>386327345
Sounds like it was just overhyped and overmarketed, but instead of releasing THE spiritual successor to legendary PS:T, they just released a game. If that's really the case then I might play it. If anything my expectations of this game are lowered because of all the response it got.

>>386325582
I bet you are sonybro that love 3rd person story driven cinematic experience games.

>>386327692
It doesn't help that all the new people that worked on it were SJW and that shows alot in the writing.

>>386327278
Can I get a rundown on why everyone hates Monty so much. I'm a WOD and Shadowrun fag so I didn't pay much attention to him.

>>386328106
He also has done nothing good in the slightest since his work on 2e Planescape and has, in fact, cause many of the issues with D&D since them and carried them over into his other projects.
He also ate penis, not sucked in a fag way, litterally ate cock.

My brother got this for PS4 and it was barely playable. Took forever to load, was laggy as fuck, and the system's cooling fan was running full blast from the moment the game started. How the hell is it possible to make a CRPG that cripples modern consoles?

>>386328368
I've only given numenera a cursory glance and half played it once. What's so bad about the tabletop and his other projects?

>>386328401
>How the hell is it possible to make a CRPG that cripples modern consoles?
Design it for a 10 year old PC or just be really shitty programmers as in this case

>>386328498
The biggest problem with Numenera is that it's a "rules light" system written by a 3aboo who has heard from a friend about his cousins sons girlfriend about the idea of a rules light game, but never actually played or seen one.

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>>386325582
>CRPGs are a dead

Hardly.
You clowns might shit on PoE but it was a good game that laid solid groundwork.
PoE2 is looking to be great.

>>386326342
>dragonfall
>crpg

These are the kind of people hating on proper CRPGs right now, think on that.

>>386328498
Monte Cooke is all about system mastery and ivory tower design. Meaning he puts in intentionally weak trap options that seem neat but are basicly pointless or actually make you worse at your job and other options that reward you for knowing exactly how things work on a metagaming level and make you godlike, and there is nothing to stop you from choosing either beside already knowing what to choose.

>>386328816
Ahhh, right. I feel like had we played more those things might have become more apparent. I guess it's similar to the problems shadowrun anarchy is having.

I unironically enjoyed the game and would totally pay for it if it wasn't inexplicably like $80 even now.
Greedy fucking devs.
We need more Torment style games badly

For anyone who played this- what are the best skills for dialogue options? I got Mechanical and Mystical lore but they only appear to be adding to the descriptions.
Also is mind reading a substitute for dialogue perception checks or nah?

>>386329046
Don't a lot of adventure focused rps suffer from that? I know in shadowrun it's pretty easy to min/Max or gimp yourself. I suppose that's where the versatility of something like FATE shines over that?

>>386329059
Yeah it is a system that seems alright if taken in a vacuum, but gets worse the more you play or if you compare it to others that are doing the same thing but much better.

>>386329202
Other rpgs try to not do it, but it happens. Monte intentionally puts those options in because he thinks it is good design.

>>386329218
Can you give me a recommendation as to what I could play instead? I'm in a DnD 5e game right now and not experiencing too many problems but I've never played previous versions so I've got nothing to compare there.

>>386329289
I know for instance what I read of his vtm 20 dice system was dogshit.

>>386329296
Depends on the problems you are having with it if any. 5e does what it does reasonably well, so if you like heroic dungeon crawling type antics then go ahead and stick with it.

>>386329192
Anamnesis by far.
Then perception.
Mind reading doesn't really add much that perception doesn't already do, but it's a cool skill that more games should have.
Let your followers deal with lore

>>386329596
I kept the little girl in my party the whole game and buffed her lore skills to max because she's useless in combat

>>386329596
darn I dun goofed, so I'll still be getting the extra text as long as my companions have the lores? neat, time to restart

I loved this, story was great and it run relatively okayish before the path of XO

>tfw you bought it for full price while nowyou can buy this for third of original price

But I still got my money worth, hopefully the console version was atleast break even for them, Iwould love to get something like a sequel or standalone expansion and again on consoles..

>>386328062
How bad is it?

Nu-Obisidian is full of SJW cucks, too.

>>386329694
Yeah my memory might be failing me but I seem to recall it's a skill just like any other and that you can delegate it to other party members

>>386329445
>vtm 20
Mmmm cancer in its purest form. Possibly the worst X d20 system ever and it is competing with such turds as Call of Cthulhu D20 and D20 Modern.

>>386329445
>>386329202
Monte Cook gave us 3E casters.

That's all that needs to be said.

And instead of actually fixing 4E, wizards tried pandering to 3aboos for 5E.

>>386329296
Dungeon World is as light as it gets. Check out Fantasy Craft for heavier.

>>386325187
Western RPGs are garbage now and that game along with Pillars of Shit proved that.

you only have JRPGs now that could be good.

>>386329571
Yeah this is a far cry from shitsack world where everyone hates you and you hate yourself. Or, Fuck the man, steal the data and say no to dragons.

I'm really enjoying it so far and combat is much nicer than say WOD.

>>386329779
It's not bad in the slightest.
Only one thing actually pissed me off in the game, and it was so innocuous that I don't remember what it is.
.t guy whose home board used to be /pol/

>>386329928
I'm waiting on Delta Green speaking of CoC.

>>386329935
Yeah my 3e knowledge is super limited but I'll read up, I've heard things so I think I get the jist.

I'll give those a look in always interested in new systems since parawolf started the rape of the wod crunch and the hardcore money jewing of the story vault system.

I actually ended up liking it, but yeah it's very flawed. The biggest, imo, is that it follows Planescape: Torment way too closely. Oh, so you're a superhuman experiencing previous lives while some big undefeatable threat is chasing you though a setting that's completely crazy and filled with discussions about souls/minds - again?

I like that your choices mattered. I liked that your dialogue mattered. You had to pay attention, instead of just running through every single option or picking the first and best solution.
It was a nice little game, but nothing special.

>>386329296
I am a massive ORE fanboy so I would recomend anything running on ORE, it's all good. Fantasy wise i'd recommend Reign for fairly brutal fantasy with a decent army/political/guild/country system, or for something entirely unrelated Better Angels for a fun demonically possesed comic book style over the top super villian game.

>>386330170
>The biggest, imo, is that it follows Planescape: Torment way too closely
This is for sure true, but it's also what people wanted.
They wanted another PS:T, so they were given it

>>386330154
Speaking of SJW shit isn't WoD full on ultra-tumblr right now?

Other fun systems to look into: Barbarians of Lemuria, Tales of the Wulin,

>>386330294
Oh, and Mouseguard and Pendragon.

Mouseguard is based off a comic. Think Redwall.
Pendragon is low fantasy arthurian sim. You manage estates when not adventuring and play as your character's children later on.

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>>386325582
>Late-90s RPG mechanics just haven't aged well
Not at all, the mechanics hold up well. The games that inspired this new wave (BG 1+2, IWD 1+2, PS:T) are all still playable and enjoyable. Modern devs learned the wrong lessons from them, is all. Devs now think these games were good because of world-building alone and so focus all their energy on writing reams and reams of text, not realizing that BG and IWD built their worlds with very little text and were both focused on getting the player up and running as quickly as possible. The world was built by the player's moving through it and interacting with it, not through massive lore dumps. See also: Divine Divinity.

Check out Jeff Vogel's take: http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2017/06/games-have-too-many-words-case-study.html

It's a little like when people think that Dark Souls was great because of the difficulty, and so we got a wave of games that were hard just for the sake of being hard. What made Dark Souls engaging was its combination of intricate level design and its translation of platformer/Mario-style tropes to a grimdark action RPG world, not merely that it was hard.

Also, the Diablo-style ARPG is the most boring genre imaginable, I don't know how anyone plays these games.

>>386330407
>It's a little like when people think that Dark Souls was great because of the difficulty, and so we got a wave of games that were hard just for the sake of being hard. What made Dark Souls engaging was its combination of intricate level design and its translation of platformer/Mario-style tropes to a grimdark action RPG world, not merely that it was hard.
This is what gets me. Dark Souls was hard to set an oppressive tone and atmosphere. That combat doesn't belong in many other games.

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>>386328890
>PoE but it was a good game

>>386330251
Yeah, that's the trouble with that kind of thing.
People don't want *exactly* the same, they want to feel something similar. This game is way too close to Planescape and ends up seeming weaker.
I think most people wanted another RPG with deep conversations, less focus on combat and non-typical themes - but it didn't have to be about immortality again and it didn't have to take place in a crazy world again.

Something like MotB did it better, imo. It's a classic fantasy setting, yet it's about the afterlife and how people deal with the jerk gods of the world.

>>386330247
I'll look into that after I finish up running my 80s campy horror inspired FATE game.

>>386330294
Depends which bit of WoD you're reading honestly and who is writing it. Anything written by Dave Hill Jr is tumblr cancer in its purest form but other writers are still capable of not devolving into gay tranny vampire communist activism. For instance, the rebellious anarch replacement sect in Vtr still gets regularly shit on.

>>386330358
I've been wanting to play mouse guard for fucking ages. Redwall was my thing growing up.

>>386330407
>Jeff Vogel
Dude, is a fucking champ.

>CoD generation "Turn based RPGs are dead"
>Vogel releases another
>AAA producers "Reeeeee! They suck stop making them!
>Vogel releases another
>Both "STOP IT! DELET THIS!"
>Vogel releases another

>>386330627
>. Anything written by Dave Hill Jr is tumblr cancer in its purest form but other writers are still capable of not devolving into gay tranny vampire communist activism.
Tell me more. I need to know about this trainwreck. What's the worst shit?

>>386330681
Same. Redwall was the shit. But nobody is man enough to play a game about talking mice lately. Sucks, man.

At least we're getting that Redwall game.

>>386330756
David Hills baby at OPP is Beast, which is basically about how there are super power pre everything monsters that can be friends with all the other supernaturals because the supernaturals came from them so really a Beasts powers from the dark mother are Bette and more diverse than say a mage or a werewolf.
His odd need to insert homolust into VTR see the character creation section in blood and smoke for hot black man vampire feeding white man vampire his blood in the shower.
See werewolf the forsaken PREGNANCY AND GENDER RULES with some kind of crazed you can feel pregnant as a ftm werewolf bullshit going on.

It's such a shame because there is some excellent stuff in OOPs stable (Geist fluff, hunter the vigil) but that fat faggots name has made me intensely wary of any new releases. Hence why I hope Deviants (no you don't understand, the world made me this way it's everyone else's fault) is off my radar.

Oh and in beast one of the sample "heroes" (which are the crazy people who hunt beasts) is basically a gamer gate expy who tips Fedora and hates women.

>>386330526
Feel free to make a good case as to why PoE is a bad game. I'm talking weighing in the pros and cons in an objective manner and not just trying to make a short shit list.

Can you do it?

>>386331139
I was going to ask if Beast was his man on man baby because I have mostly ignored the nWoD, sorry CoD, trainwreck but even then heard of Beast as being truely fucking horrible. Seems that if anything I was undersold on how bad it is.

>>386331139
>See werewolf the forsaken PREGNANCY AND GENDER RULES with some kind of crazed you can feel pregnant as a ftm werewolf bullshit going on.
Post the screencap.

Honestly, my interest in WoD was limited to Geist, Changeling and Promethean anyway.

>>386331331
Yeah, it's just completely irredeemable. I pride myself on being both a GM and player who can find at least something good in all WoD or CofD games to elevate to a point where it can be made fun, but yeah, not with Beast.

>>386331426
I don't have the PDF to hand or I would, that and blood and smokes menstruation soft rules.

Geist has amazing fluff and awful, awful crunch.
Changeling 1e is playable
Promethean is the Wraith of CofD, great idea but good luck ever playing it.

>>386331537
Well, I like Geist since it's totally not JoJo guys.
Changeling's whole idea with the magical world was neat, and I didn't even mind the NWoD version.
How bad is Promethean crunch?

>>386331537
>Promethean is the Wraith of CofD
I'd say it's worse off, I have at least been able to have people show minor interest in playing Wraith.

>>386331714
Yeah, Geist is super fun idea wise.

I hate wod changeling but really enjoy the ptsd episodes that are cofd changeling.

I'm not so up on Promethean crunch. My main problem with Promethean is the unrelenting depression of it all, like wraith, it can get a bit much. It's not a happy game to play and if you're just wanting something light ever you're gonna have to put that game aside for a bit. Considering the majority of CofD fans are no doubt mentally ill (real or imagined included) I am quote surprised they made a game where you suffer the consequences of not being normal in actual full on mechanical terms.

>>386331787
>interest in playing Wraith.
And even then it beats Unknown Armies. Everyone would love to play but no one has a clue what to do with it.
I still think it is the greatest game you'll never play.

>>386331787
I imagine much the same will happen when wraith20 finally drops. I have no idea why I put money in so long ago when I'm well aware my main group probably won't play it.

Torment funding came first, before Wasteland? Either way they were developed parallel to eachother so i imagine not enough attention for quality control with limited staff. I haven't played it but the UI looked so god awfull i was stunned it was the best look they came up with.

Perhaps Fargo manged to bite too much than he can chew when the Kickstarter grail was giving its most.

>>386331905
See, I like Promethean because it's exactly not that. Most WoD games are about bad things being bad forever because bad bad badddd.

Promethean isn't. It's a game about hope. You have your goal and you have your method. What matters is what happens on the road to being human.

>>386332136
Aye, I agree there but I also think it's very much a game about the hubris of humans and the soul crushing nature of hope. I suppose it depends which angle you come at it from.

As a sadbrains faggot I often come to Promethean with the "promise of more pain" being higher in the mix than the "promise of reaching your goal" but that's WoD in a nutshell I guess.

>>386332108
>Torment funding came first
no
> Either way they were developed parallel to eachother
no

>>386332282
I guess it all depends on the DM. I had one who wanted to run a Promethean game set during WW1 which sounded promising. Shame it never came about.

If you like the emerging humanity theme I wholly recommend reading Moore's run on Swamp Thing. Best comics ever to come out of DC.

>>386331970
I got a little lucky as the bit my group enjoyed the whole once we actually played was your shadow being another player bit, and Better Angels that I mentioned further up has a similar thing. Everyone ends up their own charater and someone elses demon so crazy hijinks and bargaining ensue as everyone tries to screw over one guy and not get screwed by someone else. Could be a complete friendship destroyer to the wrong group though.

>>386332389
That was on my list so thanks for reminding me anon.

Yeah it's completely dependant on your ST. All of my wod games run with a very double edge sword of hope feel, simply because, to me, that to me exaggerates the way I have experienced life. Without being too pretentious of course.

That and I reserve WoD for muh feels and play say, shadowrun, FATE and like the idea of eclipse phase for "Fuck you it's time for fun"

That's not to say I Fuck my players in WoD I just gently remind them that they only won today, the road is long and arduous and the odds are stacked against them.

>>386332108
Wastelan was released before Torment even began. That horrible quality control was all of their quality control.

>>386332561
Yeah again wraith is like they forgot that tabletop is mostly inhabited by mentally ill and/or socially stunted people. There is a small cross section of people who can play wraith with both a. The seriousness requires of the setting and b. The good humour required of the rules.

Maybe I'm being elitist here, but I've just played with far too many underdeveloped nerds when I've gone outside my main group.

>>386328401
The Unity Engine (TM)

>>386331258
Not him, but I was planning on buying it but never did just because all the talk about it was so negative.

I obviously can't dredge up any personal critiques, but I would go as far as to say that thousands of people chanting that it's an overall "meh" game shouldn't just be overlooked.

You may like it, but your opinion is still an opinion just like anyone else's. I'd like to hear what you thought was good about it if you can do that as well, your opinion seems to be in the general minority but if you can change my mind I'm open to it. This isn't a burden of proof shift or anything like that, I just think if you're going to challenge someone else to explain why they disliked it, you should simultaneously be able to explain why you did like it.