>Good guy fighting for his people >Is the antagonist >Can't

you'll have better luck expecting story complexity or moral ambiguity from bethesda, who officially write their stories for pre-adolescents

Forsen did nothing wrong

Old forsen PepeHands

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>forsen literally just plays PUBG now without pleblist
>Has half the viewer count
>now goes as far as to disable donation messages since he's going full tryhard to get top 100

>>386257378
That means he his finally enjoying a game

>>386254426
VanCleef was unironically fucked over royally by Stormwind who doomed the people of westfall to abject poverty.

>people still think the horde is the corrupt faction
>chris metzen still blows his load as he corrupts new things

there's a thin line between renegade and villain

building a giant warship to firebomb a city is jumping over it

he got fucked over but by the time you're send after him he's earned an execution. So did the nobles who fucked him over but sadly you can't go after them

>>386259061
>build thing
>dont get paid for building thing
>fuck off to the woods to build another thing
>use that thing to destroy the first thing you built
>WOOOOOOOW WHAT A CRIMINAL

>>386254426
Reminder that King Varian Wrynn offered to pay Van Cleef out of his own coffers but Van Cleef refused because he wanted interest instead of the original agreed upon sum.

Van Cleef was being manipulated by the Black Dragonflight (You even saw this in Vanilla on Fyke Island or w/e in Dustwallow) just like the Stormwind nobles were being manipulated by the Black Dragonflight.

Van Cleef was legitimately in the wrong and if you think otherwise you're purposefully trying to be edgy.

>tfw your first time in deadmines
>takes hours because you all suck dick and noone knows what they're doing
>finish it
>start bragging about how I "lead a party through the treacherous deadmines" as an accolade

a simpler time lads

>>386259241
>nobles fuck you over
>start mass murdering peasants

if his superweapon were used just against the nobles, sure I'd have joined him, but he murdered hundreds and was planning to murder thousands of innocents

that's crossing the line

>>386259563
most of his supports ARE the peasant, silly goose

>all these lorefags who knew anything beyond the quest text for his head

lmao

>>386259554
>when you ran the deadmines enough to remember exactly which spots are safe to hide in from mobs in case the party fucks up again

it's always the ship, someone pulls the entire thing

>>386259635
so are most of his victims
not a lot of nobles in the westfall

>>386259436
adding onto that is Van Cleef and his cronies were responsible for killing Varian's wife, in light of that him offering to pay them the original sum is very lenient

>>386259635
Most of his support were bloodthirsty thugs who wanted a reason to fuck shit up. Some were peasants, most were not.

>>386259672
This lol

He had a red name so he deserved what he got cuz I wanted that dank blue item

>>386259703
Yeah, that bit just after the tauren guy with the second platform and that one bitch pirate always aggros and runs down and gets like 2-3 packs of elites

countless times

>>386260047
and then you ran as quickly as possible to that big wheel where the mobs couldn't get to you and wait for the rest to run back and hopefully nobody just hit 0 durability

there were worse things though, like running gnomeregan with idiots. Now THAT was hell

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>They made Valeera the Rogue iconic in Hearthstone instead of him and added her to HotS before him even though no one cares about her

What is Blizzard's obsession with this bitch? Might as well add Med'an if you're clinging to awful characters no one likes.

>>386260485
rogues don't really have a lot of heroes

that said, the alternate hero for rogues in HS is a LOT better and more relevant than the one they eventually went with.

>>386260467
>gnomeregan

christ that sucked, that last gauntlet before thermaplugg is just a senseless marathon of pain

>>386260820
>last gauntlet

oh yes, with the dreaded "Guys why am I lagging" when some idiot inadvertently pulled the entire god damn hallway by walking to close to the edge

>>386260485
>van cleef being the hearthstone rogue
>no one cares about her

don't kid yourself, shes beloved by waifufags

but aside from that shes far more visible than Van Cleef ever was. Van Cleef is just a contrarian favorite, not a fan favorite. if it wasn't going to be Valeera it would have been Garona.

>>386261419
>but aside from that shes far more visible than Van Cleef ever was
guess that proves she's a shitty rogue hero

>>386261419
Garona would've been preferable. In fact, why wasn't it Garona? I'm sure she's more well known than Valeera, who seems to have just appeared out of thin air and that only Blizzard loves her.

>>386261689
if you haven't noticed: blizzard is ran by waifufags these days

case in point: Everything Sylvanas

>>386261762
Haven't played since BC. Have they "corrupted" Sylvanas yet?

>>386261918
oh no, quite the opposite actually
she's leading the horde, despite also stepped up the necromancy to lich king levels and has gotten plot armor so thick even batman would blush
it's become literally impossible for her to lose because she has also become immortal

>>386261918
There's nothing to corrupt, she's been an evil bitch since day 1 but everyone aside from an 'evil' faction that was wiped out in vanilla and a pissed off furry just kind of ignores her

>>386262118
Every other horde leader is a boring sack of stupid garbage, so getting the comic book villain was the best option by far.

>>386254426
I'd argue that even with a demon leading them the Scarlet Crusade are WAY more sympathetic

>>386262838
problem is Sylvanas has veered completely into mary sue territory

Garrosh was a vastly better leader during Cata, it's only after that they fucked up

>>386262962
But she does nothing but get wrecked by a single dude and disappears completely so that Khagdar can tell the Horde what to do

Fuck I missed SNE.

>>386254426
>You're the good guy so you can do whatever you want and it's good
>He's the bad guy, so everything he does is evil
This inherently good and inherently evil bullshit has to end.

>>386259436
he was originally in the right, onyxia is the real villian here tbqfhfamily

>>386261689
Originally it was going to be garona but the devs didn't want too many orcs

>>386260749
Only that Maiev isnt a rogue at all.

There's like one actual lore important rogue and thats Garona.

Rogues are just shitty. There's a reason why they live in Dalarans toilet now.

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>>386257378
Pleblist

>>386263535
youtube fags OMEGALUL

for real the episode was probably the best one yet

Scarlet Crusade did nothing wrong.
Purge the undead, Loraderon for the living.

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DUDE 99% LMAO

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>>386265793
This is objectively true, despite the dumb things they did one has to remember the situation they were in was dire. They had no outside support. The Forsaken/Scourge were constantly trying to infiltrate their ranks. In vanilla the Scarlet Crusade was unrionically doing more good than any other faction.

FOR FUCK SAKE BLIZZARD I WANT LEGACY SERVERS ALREADY!