Why are 90s 3D games the best, most interesting worlds to explore

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The City from the Thief series. Again, THE greatest fictional world in gaming EVER as far as I'm concerned. I could play that shit forever.

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The Stygian Abyss from Ultima Underworld

>>386215968
thief and thief 2 nailed both level design and SOUND DESIGN, something missing badly in any "thief spiritual successor"

if dishonored 1 had the sound design of thief 1 and 2 you wouldn't need that shitty infravision see through magic that turns your game piss yellow all the time and it would suck so much less.

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>>386215968
Its mainly the fact they were made by small, dedicated teams with a vision that wasn't "make as much money as humanly possible".

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>>386215968
>Why are 90s 3D games the best, most interesting worlds to explore in gaming?
Because they were made for PC rather than console.

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>>386215968
Because primitive technology allows for cheaper, and thus more numerous, assets. When you have to cram in ungodly amounts of polygons and dynamic lights and UHD textures and physics playgrounds and setpieces you're not left with much time and money to work on the overall structure of the environments as opposed to all the requisite decorations.

>>386217084
The only right answer.

>>386215968
90s 3D games have this sense of eerieness that makes the world feel surreal often times.
THis was very common in 5th gen 3D platformers like Super Mario 64, Glover, Banjo, Gex, etc.

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>>386215968
>>386217609
To further elaborate, normies and casuals care far more about spectacle and surface details than depth and functionality, and since they're now the target market rather than "core" gamers devs have switch to relegating resources (both budgetary and computorial) from the latter to the former.

>>386215968
>What the fuck is it about primitive 3D that makes it the most immersive, otherworldly experience to get lost in?

the shit was empty, so you had to imagine most of it. imagination is the best immersion.

>>386216106
>They actually added an option to write down notes because the map is so fucking detailed.

>>386215968
The original System Shock had a great map.
>when you get the rocket skates

>>386215968
no one cared about cashing in on the latest casual fads and wasting time on shallow shit like loot crates.

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>>386219717
this. I'm surprised OP mentioned blood because that game is very linear and aside from enemies, there's very little that you can interact with at all. most of the environments were just open spaces with flat walls plastered with copypasted textures.

I think another aspect is the HUD/UI. in newer games the UI is more extensive but also generally more obtrusive.

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>>386217609
>Video games then
>

>>386220376
Blood has so much atmosphere it's ridiculous though.

>>386220376
there was a shit ton you could interact with. especially compared to games these days. you're clearly misremembering.

>>386215968
they had to be creative with basic tools and it also required some imagination on the players part
these days everything is spoonfed

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>>386220590

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>>386220804

>>386221180
Chex Quest has the deepest lore.

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>>386221224
Indeed

>>386221483
>tfw no modern chex quest to go with nuDoom

>>386215968
because nowadays devs either make AAA corridor games or "open world" aka "no level design" games

>>386216689
I have this on Steam, and I cannot make it playable on a modern OS to save my life.
What are your secrets?

>>386215968
>What the fuck is it about primitive 3D that makes it the most immersive, otherworldly experience to get lost in?
Like any "primitive" art, it stimulates imagination. It's like your mind wants to fill in the little details it doesn't see. It makes the whole experience more engaging than realistic graphics that your brain just take as is. They would also push the hardward to its limit with an artistic focus, now everything is about raw performance, and art only comes later, trying to squeeze itself into an engine that didn't consider it.

Also games used to have a whole lot more character. Mostly because they were made by fewer people with an actual vision, instead of large disconnected teams that lack artistic direction, and instead have marketing and quality direction that forces them to follow strict guidelines and sanitize everything.

I noticed a good example lately: empty soda cans. Almost all games have those as a thing lying on the ground somewhere. Old games would create imaginary brands with funny titles, and then integrate them on billboards and shit, which brought the world to life. Modern games have no-fun-allowed soda cans, which aren't seen anywhere else, not even in vending machines that have other soda can textures, nor or billboards that show other things, and everything was made to be sure that the colors, shapes or references on those things wouldn't hurt any kind of culture around the world, which is the main reason for the sanitization of everything.

>>386221573
There is one in the making by an original XHex Quest dev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg2XXWDVsR0

>>386221573
nuDoom is fucking terrible though

>>386222016
THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN

>>386221628
Either http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=286998267
or http://m210.duke4.net/index.php/files/download/8-java/50-bloodgdx

>>386222014
In the same vein, let's say we have an office level. Modern day would see every cubicle filled with papers, desktops, staplers, paperclips, chairs, all that good stuff in the name of realism. 90s would have desks and chairs with maybe 2 or 3 props. The difference is that in the former your mind dismisses everything as clutter, unless you autistically go through every item on the desk. In the latter every single object stands out because it's unique and since it's taking up processing power it better be give some relevant information to either the game or the desks owner.
For an example compare the offices in Deus Ex's UNATCO to the cubicles in Human Revolutions police station.

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>>386222014
>Like any "primitive" art, it stimulates imagination. It's like your mind wants to fill in the little details it doesn't see. It makes the whole experience more engaging
This is very true. I think this applies to story telling too. It doesn't matter how simple the story is, whether you were playing Doom or a game with a very fleshed out story like Marathon, filling in the details of the story yourself was really interesting and fun.

>>386221628
I used the latest SVN build of DOSbox, instead of the extremely out of date build supplied with Steam and GOG. I also used an original version of the game, not sure if the Steam/GOG versions were gimped in any way, but I'm paranoid of such things.

>>386222838
Is marathon the dark souls of early fps?

>>386222887
How far along is DosBox compared to its 0.74 release?

>>386223046
Its been seven years since 0.74. It runs games way better now. Especially two that used to always give me problems: Blood and Mechwarrior 2.

>>386220590
I remember playing these kind of games as a kid and feeling this kind of despair when i looked around at the surroundings. They were truly other worldly and made you feel like your MC was fucked and had no chance of getting away from wherever it was.
Nowdays i suppose you'd just fast travel somewhere "comfy"

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>>386223026
Yes. It provides just enough information to get you thinking but not information to fully explain the story and lore. There's plenty of gaps of knowledge allowing you to fill the blanks, with many of the lore bits being very vague but it all makes sense in context.

>>386216489
Arkane are just second-tier Looking Glass imitators.

>>386216036
damn that lighting is pretty hot. it looks good even now

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>>386215968
haha oh wow
is this the most delusional and nostalgia blinded post on /v/ right now?
go in a corner and keep playing the same old games over and over until you fall over and die

>>386223998
Yep, it has every manchild of the collection, even the disgusting nostalgia baby who cant appreciate how great Doom 2016 was and what it did to best the modern shooters, those people never had taste, just a childhood, which some cant let go.

>>386217609
Exactly. It's the same reason they make more open world game. It's cheaper that way.

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>>386217609
wrong pic

>>386217084
The Tomba games would disagree with you.

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>>386217609
>>386221185
here, try the new version

You can still play nintendo games if you want your fix of dogshit graphics, OP

>>386224634
Sauce on 1979?

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I'm playing thief gold right now for the first time and it's so fresh. I honestly wish games were made like this today. So much more bang for your buck

>>386215968
I guess it was relatively easy to build levels fast and directly transform your vision into 3D.. Nowadays you have to hire a bazillion outsorce artists to conform to modern standarts

>>386215968
I actually think video games have had a peak in quality in the 90's, because due to technological limitations, games had to have top notch writing, gameplay, sounds, music, you name it, to stand out. These days it's so easy to make a really good looking game, that so many developers don't much care about quality of anything else but the visuals.

>>386225446
Colossal Cave Adventure

>>386225709
Thanks, fampai

>>386215968
>Thief 1, Gold, and 2 are probably the absolute pinnacle of 3D virtual worlds
they're some of the ugliest 3d worlds ever made you fucking hipster

>>386225446
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zork

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>>386225709
>>386225894
Oh wait nevermind

>>386225185
Man, nu-Doom is disappointing. It starts with promising map design with secrets and shit, and then at the end of the game it turns into a simple chain of big arenas.

>>386216489
>thief and thief 2 nailed both level design and SOUND DESIGN

My brother from another mother, was just thinking about this when I read OP. The sound design in the first two Taffers is criminally overlooked when discussing these games.

I still like the Dishonored games for what they are though.

>>386225559
>>386216036
Let thine arrow fly, into mine crystal eye

I'm glad sound design is mentioned in here a couple times.

Its details like that that truly complete and deepen the experience you have with a game. Things like cool animation and good sounds, paired with them at times, that make you feel engaged will always be more enjoyable than something with an "epic" story that doesnt offer much else

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>>386222014

>I noticed a good example lately: empty soda cans. Almost all games have those as a thing lying on the ground somewhere. Old games would create imaginary brands with funny titles, and then integrate them on billboards and shit, which brought the world to life. Modern games have no-fun-allowed soda cans, which aren't seen anywhere else, not even in vending machines that have other soda can textures, nor or billboards that show other things, and everything was made to be sure that the colors, shapes or references on those things wouldn't hurt any kind of culture around the world, which is the main reason for the sanitization of everything.

Probably the worst recent example I can think of is comparing Shadow Warrior Classic with the two remakes.

SWC has stupid shit left and right like Cream of Sum Yung Gai, sumo toilets, animu posters and other stuff, the remakes have Angry Birds and Undertale references, in-game advertising for Alienware and amazingly creative drink labels.

>>386219717

This is the only correct answer. Leaving things open for your imagination to fill it in, is far more effective than describing every single detail.

>>386226813
My brother and I still quote the old game's Lo Wang, his lines will never not be funny.

>>386215968
>What the fuck is it about primitive 3D that makes it the most immersive, otherworldly experience to get lost in?
I've been thinking about that recently and I think it just boils down to good level design. Recent games tend to either be extremely lazy about that or they just make a sandbox with no real interesting structure to it.

>>386217609
The more primitive environments also allowed to do shit you probably can't pull off these days anymore without looking idiotic like some man-sized box with animated computer textures sliding to the side to reveal ammo or a keycard or stairs growing out of the ground and walls after activating a switch on the other side of the map.

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>>386219717
This, but additionally old engines had sharp and clean visuals. Look at some moder user content for old games, they look amazing.

>>386215968
>Why are 90s 3D games the best, most interesting worlds to explore in gaming?
They're free from the misguided desire for realism that many of the current western games suffer from.

>>386221185
The Far Cry format was the best thing to happen to the modern FPS genre before DOOM came along

>>386229229
>implying Doom will have a following at all
it was a one off for nostalgia's sake

>>386229367
It's not about a following it's about the fact that it was successful and will lead to id making more games like it. This is a very good thing. I couldn't care less about the retards saying "hurr mp is bad but sp was awdsome le dlc singleplayer plz XDD". They're gonna be making another one whether or not people are "dedicated" to it and play it regularly.

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>>386227124
There's also quite the height right there. Modern games are too flat, there's hardly any jumping unless it's contextual, thus little reason for vertical design, and seeing how you have no fear of falling, either because you can't jump, or because you can jump from great heights without damage, the few modern environment with heights still feel unimpressive.

Ironically, this map looks more three dimensional than most of the shit we see these days, because it is so clean, and so vertically complex.

Pic related is the standard these days.

>>386220917
this

>>386220917
Nowhere near as much as Duke 3d or Shadow Warrior. Sure there were some phoneboxes and shit but it's still the least interactive build game environment except literally who shit like NAM and Redneck rampage.

>>386226940
BETTER ZIP UP FLY

I might be alone here, but one thing that I noticed is that older games (Thief series, Halo CE, Unreal) have a big focus on ambient sounds, which is something that I miss so fucking much.

I mean these big sounds that are spread throughout the entire level that have no obvious, logical reason to be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh25MB3-Z2w

Just listen to these slightly music-like sounds that have no logical reason to be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9_rZaKvgmE

Whether you like it or not, Halo CE had also a lot of great ambient sounds that sound like breathing, swishing, etc that have no logical reason to be there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTih6yKvTyU

Or for example this weird sound in Postal 2 that again, has no reason to be there.

I fucking love shit like that and sadly no modern game has stuff like that.

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>>386215968
While we on it.
Paul Denton is not in the hotel room, after a NSF headquarters mission. Completed all objectives, the chair is empty.

>>386231272
Deus Ex is one of the best games ever made.

>>386230936
I've never even noticed the ambiance on Hang Em High, that's actually slightly creepy.

>>386230936
Games of old had ambient music, quite simply. Now it's either full-fledged orchestral music, subtle guitar, or nothing but the actual sounds of the game. Sometimes I think it's because tasks have become so spit up in modern studios, that the ones in charge of music and sound aren't the same anymore, thus there's less synergy between the two.

Music works best when it's ambient in vidya. Until not too long ago, there were still Jesper Kyd, Matt Uelmen, and a few other vidya music composers that did a great job on that. Now they almost all went to do some other shit.

>>386231308
Yeah. It's so interesting and it's looks great, even though I'm playing without mods.
But now I'm stuck. Can't find any information about this glitch. Seems like no one have any problems with this part
>>386230936
The Postal 2 ambient sounds reminds me of a Fallout.

EYE Divine Cybermancy.
I also like the feeling of Natural Selection 2.

>>386231870
Hey friend. Here's a fix I found - https://videogamegeek.com/thread/907622/guide-how-fix-paul-not-his-appartment-glitch-deus

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>>386216036
>>386223673
Thief is sexy.

>>386231272
Never heard of that happening, sorry but I can't help

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>>386232321

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>gaming reached its peak decades ago

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>>386232218
Wow. Thanks.
Here's a self-made Deus Ex meme. Picrelated.

>>386223998
>>386224321
>autistic children screeching about people liking actual good games made years before they were born

Sorry tykes, go play some Far Call of Assassinfield 17 to calm yourselves down a bit

>>386215968
Because your nostalgia goggles have been glued to your head.

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>>386233713
You're welcome. Funny meme, kek

>>386215968
System Shock?

>>386230142
This is part of what struck me about Dark Souls 1; it's very vertical compared to most modern games.

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>>386215968
Heres the pinnacle of open world design for you.

>>386231272
My friend ran into that problem as well. If the fix doesn't work for whatever reason look up how to edit flags, it's very straightforward.

>>386234609
Everything works fine now. Just came here to say thank you again.
Now I must to "return to the world of Conspiracies".

>>386222014
>I noticed a good example lately: empty soda cans. Almost all games have those as a thing lying on the ground somewhere. Old games would create imaginary brands with funny titles, and then integrate them on billboards and shit, which brought the world to life. Modern games have no-fun-allowed soda cans, which aren't seen anywhere else, not even in vending machines that have other soda can textures, nor or billboards that show other things, and everything was made to be sure that the colors, shapes or references on those things wouldn't hurt any kind of culture around the world, which is the main reason for the sanitization of everything.
Very poignant, comfy example.

>thief 1
>sneaking around in a large theatre at night, can hear a scant few actors and performers rehearsing in other rooms
>come across a random script, read a few pages
>some light romantic play about a forbidden love between a hammerite novice and a wood fairy or something

>only think back to this later in the game when the woodsie lord unleashes all kinds of sick weird brutal shit through the portals which wreak havoc on the world, and remember the naive innocence of the play's perception of the forest creatures
such a tiny detail, really left an impression on me

>>386217609
im more familiar with doom 2 than doom, which map is that?

>>386235784
Artstyle and aesthetics in gothic 2 looked so good, why Elex feels like another low budget rpg with no soul

>>386216489
>thief and thief 2 nailed both level design and SOUND DESIGN, something missing badly in any "thief spiritual successor"
Thief doesn't have spiritual successors. There's Thief: Gold and 2. And 3 which was a bit of a disappointment.
>if dishonored 1 had the sound design of thief 1 and 2 you wouldn't need that shitty infravision see through magic that turns your game piss yellow all the time and it would suck so much less.
Not saying Dishonored's sounds design is as good as the original Thief games, it doesn't rely on it as Thief did, although it's good it just serves an entirely different purpose and isn't meant to convey guard positions and even level architecture beyond the player's visibility through accurate sound propagation. Dishonored's not a pure stealth game, that just happens to be one of the (most) fun ways to play the game (to me at least). No game since Thief cared as much about sound design and modern stealth games just have guards and NPCs loudly cough or whistle or mumble to alert the player to their presence.

BUT you don't need infravision, at all. The game's not designed in a way it requires the player to use it, at any point. That you used it is fine, and I loved occasionally using x-ray vision in DX (1) so I can see why people use it even if I avoided it in Dishonored. But you don't need it, you probably just resorted to it because you thought you did due to low expectations.

>>386220804
Is this loss?

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>>386238360
No, but someone should make a map. I'm surprised I didn't see one till now.

>>386238000
>Dishonored's not a pure stealth game
This. A lot of people give shit to Dishonored because killing everyone is quicker than sneaking but it's simply a matter of choice. In Thief (especially Thief 2) you HAVE to stay hidden, fighting is only last resort. I thought Dishonored 2 had well crafted maps, and I spent hours in every mission searching for stuff, without using magic vision. The levels are designed in a way that you can traverse them with or without powers (refusing the mark at the beginning), which is pretty good. Killing floor 2 has some interesting maps, but more in the visual sense, which make them pleasant to explore, imo.

>>386237729
Elex actually looks decent
please don't let me down PB

>>386239981
>kf2
Shame it lost the gritty b horror aesthetic that made 1 so charming, but it's a fine trade off for everything else being way better.