SPICS BTFO https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/ 07/31/world-o

>resource mined by millions of asians and bought by americans with more money than sense is worth more than monopoly money
no shit

>>385798760
>venezuela

>>385798760
So this is the power of Socialism?

>>385798760
>over 15 million in gold

Gonna buy me a couple Venezuelan qts.

>>385798760
truly a socialist utopia

>>385798760
how the fuck did this happen

>>385798760
So how much are tokens up to now?

>>385801178
Socialism is a hell of a drug.

>>385801314
fucking 120k gold
all the gold i botted + garrison farmed is now gone

fuck honorbuddy/bossland. cunts

>>385801178
>>385798760

economic warfare, low oil prices, and fixed prices along a land border tbqh

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Don't you get infinite gold from killing enemies? How can that shit be worth jack shit if there's an infinite amount of it?

Nobody even knows where Venezuela is.

if only bernie had won am i right bros

>>385800429
No this is the power of USA and Saudi-Arabia reducing oil prices to hurt Russia

Communism not even once

>>385801435
>>385800680
>>385801330
Go be stupid somewhere else

Socialism works

You do know socialist policies are in large part responsible for them being so oil dependent and not diversifying their exports right?

I thought socialists burn all the money because it's evil.

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>>385801558
pff, like where, Venezuela?

>>385798760
If only they had mages to conjure food for the Raid...

>>385801415
Killing enemies takes time, time is a limited resource.

>>385800581
You probably can. Venezuela has gone full Zimbabwe, with their currency being cheaper than toilet paper/napkins and everyone murdering each other over a fucking pigeon or rat.

Some, if not most of them are trying to keep their humanity and act like the civilized people they once were, but you can see the anguish in their faces.

I have a friend over there, and we try to help each other by "trading" WoW tokens. He farms them and I give him the money I'd spend on it plus a little extra for trying to make money to help her family in any way he can.

He says USD $20 is what his dad earns as a taxi driver each month, the average being $25~30/m.

I buy him a token every time I have some spare money, because I have seen how awful they have it. I don't even play the game anymore, just trying to lend him a hand.

>>385801660
No in America

>>385801702
I want to donate money to poor Venezueland qts

I would give a $100

>>385801641
They barley had anything to export before oil

Every Varian Dollar will be worth five British Pounds

>tfw feel bad for normal folks in Venezuela but can't making fun of people blaming the states for everything
glad we illegally detained and exiled every communist that didn't leave voluntarily back in the 50s. good riddance i say

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>Donating American taxpayer money to a socialist government to redistribute it to the population


>>385801825
Don't need raw goods to export. You can export services like other poor countries (India, Malaysia, Indonesia)

Sucks but it beats this

>>385801178
Bunch of things but mostly incompetence and oil prices crashing.

>>385798760
>Venezuela
No shit. It's almost a failed state.

>>385801932
>Malaysia
>Poor
Indonesia has tons of natural resources and agriculture products which they export.

They actually named a country after those plastic trumpets?

>>385801512
>being so worthless that your economy is dependent on natural resources in your country
Russians and Venezuelans could have come up with something over the centuries

>>385802182
That would be vuvuzelas.

>>385801415
You can collect rainwater if you want but the bottled water industry is still in full swing.

>>385801178
They built their entire economy around oil.

Oil prices take a massive plunge, economy goes bust.

>>385801558
Why? They didn't lie.

>>385802248
This

Arabs and Poos do IT or other overseas services why cant spics?

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truly the power of Not Real Socialism™

>>385802248
So could America, but they aren't.
>>385802521
But it was all wrong

Where my /berniebros/ at? Love how the Drumpfkins are trying to paint this as Socialism when it obviously isn't real socialism.

>>385800429
The majority of industry in Venezuela is privately owned, so not socialism. It's largely due to falling oil prices and the fact that the Venezuelan government decided to finance most of their government programs through oil revenue.

>>385802607
India doesn't have any oil and the only Arab country do expand their economy outside of oil is the United emirates.

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>>385802641
damn that got me

>>385802126
Fun random fact. Indonesia's oil industry was owned by the nation until recently.

In 1998 "revolution" happened and the president was replaced. In 2001, the first company owned oil mining site opened. The owner was american.
Right now, america owned more than half of oil mining site in Indonesia.

How can you say socialism doesn't work if it hasn't been done properly yet?

>>385802650
America exports shit tons of man made products like airplanes, vehicles, technology, as well as raw materials though

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>>385802650
>So could America, but they aren't.

>>385802969
Because by definition it cant be done properly. Eventually you run out of other pekples money, or make your own until it becomes worthless

>>385802607
>Poos do IT
they're only "qualified" to do IT because people literally climb the walls of the universities there to help students cheat on exam day

>>385802795
What is it?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2dh-0uiqw0

>When Just Cause becomes real
RL super grappling hooks when?

>>385803219
But it all sums to zero against itself, because that's how macroeconomics works. So that's not really a meaningful thing.

>>385803296
CIVIL WAR WHEN GODDAMMIT

>>385802969
Because you can't make it work. There's always some asshole/group of assholes who will abuse it and break the system. People are naturally greedy.

>>385803309
Not in a global economy

Socialism wont work until the costs of producing things are negligible and nearly zero, AND there's an adequate supply

>>385803442
It won't be long.

>>385803503
But it does. someone has to run a deficit for someone to run a surplus.

>>385803296
Why were they cheering?

>>385803132
>products like airplanes, vehicles, technology
The only reason why anyone buys your shitty military equipment is because they are in NATO.

>>385801702
Was their election really a sham?

Poor Venezeula

>>385803601
Commie govt is super corrupt

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>>385803550
Breedy gud, hope some venezuelanfag streams it when shit hits the fan.

>>385803647
Thats whats happen when you bet everything into Petroleum and CIA fucks you .

Not real communism.

>>385802248
dude lmao just move money around a bunch and pretend things are happening.

It unironically works and it's great.

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https://youtu.be/RSbRo99MiEM

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>be socialist country
>collapse into poverty, famine, and crime

Wow who could have thought? Definitely hasn't happened to each and every one of them in the last 100 years, how were we supposed to know?

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LOL

>>385803660
All governments short of benevolent dictatorship are corrupt.

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>>385800429

I-IT'S NOT R-R-REAL SOCIALISM

>>385803660
Still not as corrupt as American government

>>385803771
Not Sweden.
It will happen soon though.

What about zimbabwe dollar ?

>>385803709
I think it already happened son

https://twitter.com/GenevaSummit/status/892304113727393792

>>385803872

http://abcnews.go.com/International/venezuelan-opposition-figures-homes-families/story?id=48962217

I know you're shitposting but it's sad how retards actually believe this.

>>385803780
>things go to real shit after he dies.

Really makes you think.

>>385803771
>common trend: US attacks because closed off economies that don't let the US exploit their markets freely are bad for US oligarchs.

>>385801558
NOT REAL SOCIALISM

>>385803601
Those guys killed more than 100 civilians in a couple of moths so people were happy to see them burning a little bit

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>>385803782
>>385803872
t. assblasted gommies

>>385803771
17 KB PNG
>be socialist country
>collapse into poverty, famine, and crime because of American medling

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>>385803782
>benevolent dictatorship
>human nature
>benevolent anything

Nigga you be trippin'

>>385802501
fundamentally this is actually it lol & combined with when chavez et al were rolling around in oil money they weren't investing it

>It's another "/v/ is filled with idiotic marxists and leftists that know literally nothing about economics but still feel the need to try and educate people episode"

If you think, Venezuela is the US's fault and not the retarded communist leaders sucking Che cock then you're first to go on the day of the rope

>>385803886
>Sweden
>Socalist
If Sweden is a socialist country then world is the rest of Scandinavia

>>385804010

Marxists were taught to blame everything on white people and the United States.

>muh pacific oposition
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oposicion+venezolana+quema

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Reminder that a libertarian technocracy is the only way forward

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It's not real socialism guys. it's dictatorship!

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>>385803926
>things go to real shit after he dies.
It's almost like socialism never works in the long term, but retards will see the short-term benefits and then endlessly shill for it.

The moment you hand over all power, all wealth, and all rights to the government is the EXACT moment you fuck up as a country. It doesn't matter if you have BASED BERNIE SANDUHS!!! at the helm, without hard checks and balances you are always going to get gulag'd in the end in a socialist/communist government.

>>385804047
Well, Democratic socialism but who cares. It's still shit.

>>385804064
Or whatever they FEEL is an entrenched power structure, aside from themselves of course

>>385803625
>thinks I'm American
Calm down bro.

>>385801927
>glad we illegally detained and exiled every communist that didn't leave voluntarily back in the 50s
>He actually thinks that worked

Your academia is absolutely infested with them right now from top to bottom.

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all countries should take note from japan and chile on how to deal with leftists

>>385801927
We didn't go far enough.

Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Good times create weak men
Weak men create hard times

>>385804010
>almost everyone except 2-3 people making fun of Venezuela
>this retard comes desperate for some form of superiority
Mongoloid.

>>385804259
>women cant create shit

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>>385804071
>libertarian technocracy is the only way forward
>not a totalitarian theocracy

Rudimentary organic scum

>>385804109
>if you try to deviate from the established state-property system we have then you're fucked, trust us, the property owners, we know what's best.

I'm not even going to entirely disagree, but the idea that "you're always fucked if you don't do what we want" is such a pathetic argument. If they weren't concerned that other economic and state systems could be valid why would they routinely employ policy based and economics based attacks?

These are the same people who genuinely wanted to have us believe that if you shrink GDP you'll shrink debt. (Austerity) you can't reduce the denominator and get a better ratio.

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>>385804334
>letting a sexist racist bigoted AI call the shots

ummm no sweetie

>>385804109
And without checks and balances in a capitalist country you get rich people fucking over the global economy all to give themselves a big fat bonus.
>>385804198
I'd rather take a page from Lenin on how to deal with rightist
>>385804259
Bullshitters creates bullshit

>>385804413

>WAHHH GIMME FREE STUFF
>I DON'T WANT TO WORK HARD LIKE THE MILLIONAIRES DID TO GET WHERE THEY ARE

>>385804326
This thread is not about sandwiches.

Remember when communism failed so many times they had to rebrand it as socialism?
How long till socialism needs a name change too?

>>385804458
>I LIKE TO MAKE UP WORDS THAT THE OTHER GUY DIDN'T SAY

>>385804353
Socialism, in practice, requires the State to enforce it. That means giving all your rights and wealth to government. You cannot enforce socialism any other way.

There is no way around it. The entire premise is based on broken logic, but socialists seem hellbent on killing millions of people to keep trying anyway. It's fucking insanity.

>>385804070
>communist guy literally said he was a literal communist who supports the literal communist dictatorship who loves to kill teens on the streets for having different political views in a country with a democratic constitution which states the people have the right to protest to a tyrant regime
>burned alive

I don't see the problem here, huh?

>>385804384
Remember how a self-learning AI was released by MS for shits and giggles and became redpilled within 24 hours?

>>385804458
>work hard
>create an insider game then tell everyone outside they should just be insiders.

Extreme inter-generational wealth is a cancer, and will always be a cancer.

>>385804573
Care with the edges, son.

>>385804592
Err, antisemitic much?

>>385800429
This is the fault of capitalism screwing over socialism

>>385804552
So does capitalism. You need a state to create and enforce property laws. There's no difference except for who's supposed to be the main beneficiary. In capitalism it's the top 10-20% of the income distribution. They get more out of the system and pay less in proportionally. That's why we have such problems. There's a great fix too. It's call pay your fucking taxes.

FUCK TRUMP AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

>>385804592
>>385804413
>corporations lobby to change laws to make it so they get kickbacks and monopolies
>capitalism is the problem!

No, government is. You should be directing your anger at politicians who bent the rules.

>>385804634
The world would be a better place without leafs.

>>385804070
Now to burn their every single policeman and politician. They will feel the arm.

>>385804717
Shouldn't you also be mad at the corporations?

Ideology is ultimately irrelevant.
The US Russian and Saudi economic war is possibly the reason coupled with price controls in a land border. Illegal markets sponsored by corrupt military officials and heavy agricultural imports lowering overall domestic production. Economic crisis's are nuanced and complex look at Greece and the economic downspiral of the eu in the mid 2000s.
Ideology cannot prevent incompetence no matter how full proof.

>>385804334
>not a technocratic protectorate
It's like you don't want a qt robot senpai to help steer your country.

>>385804685
Why pay more taxes when you can lobby for less taxes?

>>385803872
I dont have to eat rats tho

>>385804717
That was literally the intent. They crated the apparatus to protect themselves. We'll be swinging by John Stewart Mill again at some point. Where the upper class realise they'll have to start redistributing again or they'll find their houses on fire.

>>385804507
It's already happened. Now it's called "liberalism".

>>385804791
>>385804796
Its because this muslims cant have power.

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meanwhile /r/socialism has a megathread defending venezuelan government but bans all actual venezuelans who are critical of the govt from the sub because they're obviously bourgeois reactionaries if they have access to the internet

>>385803997
Eh, a dictator requires one (1) benevolent man. Socialism requires like, 90%+ of the population to be benevolent. I mean, when you're a socialist basically every decision impacts everyone around you. Being a fat as fatass or a druggie or whatever is truly immoral in a socialised system whereas in a capitalist sytem the harm is contained to the fatass and the druggie. That's why it's annoying that the same crew espousing socialism also espouse a lack of social responsibility. You really can't have both, it just won't work.

What's the difference between 1 in 350 million (at best) say in who rules the country and 0 anyways. Hell the people in reliable voting areas effectively have 0 votes anyways.

Oil will run out in your lifetime, prepare to join them no matter where you live.

>>385804797
The responsibility falls upon the gatekeeper.

>>385804791
>one of the best places to live, far ahead of the US in that regard
>lefty as fuck (same as Scandinavia, huh what a coincidence)

Those sweet poltrash tears.

>>385804890
Fuck off Reddit.

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>>385804872
>Liberalism is the literal antithesis of authoritarianism
>Liberalism is now communism

>>385804717
And the politicians bent the rules because corporations gave them a shitload of money to do so.

It's a vicious circle, and both are equally to blame.

>>385804934
They were just shrewd people advancing capitalism to the next level.
You are obviously a numale cuck for thinking otherwise.

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>>385805041
>both are equally to blame.

Good, now that we established government is evil and corrupt, let's not expand its power (socialism). Less government!

>>385803997
>heterogenous population
>democracy
>anything but tyranny of the majority
Not to mention
>universal suffrage
>anyone but opportunistic, silver-tongued charlatans getting elected
The most important part of a functioning government is an entrenched political class. One with a privileged position but no economic incentive to take advantage of their position

Obviously we need Helios AI to rule over us.

>>385804872
No they had to change it because actual liberal went mad. Now it's progressivism.

>>385805274
>sexist racist white supremacist KKK nazi AI
I don't think so sweetums

>>385804890
>go to see it because it might be interesting
>no megathread
>at least half the people are saying that the Venezuelan government betrayed it's people by failing to account for the oil dependency.

>>385805119
Capital is the problem, it's the root. It will create the means to exploit things to accrue more, this has been shown time and time again. The second we had anything different they funded global market-based revolutions and created the neoliberal order.

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>>385804684
>claim socialism is the superior economic system
>it totally collapses when competing with any other economic system

itt no one actually knows what they are talking about

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>>385805319
Humans are hardwired to work with Capitalism.

Socialism is for mutant insect people with pea brains.

Do you have a pea brain?

>>385805126
>communism is good because then EVERYONE suffers

fuck off ya pinko commie loser

>>385804808
>Ideology is ultimately irrelevant.
That's fucking stupid, the state controls most industry in a socialist system so if they haven't diversified their exports the crash is going to happen. When the state controls all industry, there's no real way to properly diversify them so this happens. Capitalism slips into every nook and cranny by design.
People who say "Oh it's not because of socialism, its corruption/oil crash" can barely think. Corruption is much easier in a socialist system and people who purport putting politicians in positions of power over production and then say it was "Corruption" that went wrong can't see the forest through the trees. In a freer market, there's no room for state corruption because less money travels through the system, it's mostly kept in the pockets of people who exchange their goods. The more money you have to cycle through politicians, the more damaging corruption becomes. I mean socialism says that POLITICIANS are some of the most trustworthy people, that's how retarded that system is.
Socialists always talk about the distribution of wealth, but they never mention that it necessitates a centralisation of power. Politics is the industry where your ability to lie and cheat and misdirect is your main skill, so giving the best of the best politicians say over the majority of capital just makes no sense.

>>385805119
The root cause though. With nobody to give them kickbacks, special privileges and bribes, the greedy terrible people will leave government since there's no benefit other than serving the public. Thus we keep government serving the people, and not the other way around like it is now.

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>>385804986
Kinda sad and funny how liberalism had to take a new name because the authoritarian progressives stole the word.

>hey, we value the population over the individual, what should we call ourselves, communist, socialist?
>"oh hey, we are liberals, we value the individual over the population"
>that's perfect, let's call ourselves liberals!

>>385805294
True but you would think they would abandon the name.

>>385805338
But there was a functioning command economy, there still is.

The problem is 90% of countries that have swung towards it (at least) have been tiny. Small countries are effected by the economic gravity of large ones. If latvia was surrounded by socialist nations it would collapse if it tried to be a modern capitalist nation.

>>385805428
You don't really need to add the "itt" part.

>>385805442
Humans are hardwired to work with Feudalism you retarded SJW.

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>>385805453
>capitalists corrupt government
>therefore we need bigger government

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>>385798760
>le not real socialism

>>385805442
Humans worked without capitalism for centuries no the greeks, romans, medieval europe, etc, were not capitalist. Aristotle (or was it plato I forget) hated the capitalist concept of markets.

>>385805492

And why do you think those big, successful countries use capitalism?

>>385805532
>therefore I need to be the government

>>385805526
>>385805442
Anything beyond basic tribalism is not "hard wired"

>>385805459
>True but you would think they would abandon the name.
didn't they thought? Nowdays communists call themselve progressives and see liberals like literally hitler. (see what happened to Dave Rubin recently)

>>385805492
That's why the massive USSR was such a success, of course, and China was never forced to switch to a more capitalistic model while all it's small capitalist neighbors failed.

>>385805578
Because that's what benefited the landowning elites that founded the nations.

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>>385805558
>collapsed when they were out-traded by other nations using more capitalist systems

Niggers

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>>385805558
>the greeks, romans, medieval europe, etc, were not capitalist.

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>>385805526
>>385805558
Last I checked America is the #1 superpower, not your dumb peasant feudal country.

>>385805617
Do they? Well I mean, they do, but I thought they still called them Libertarians?

>>385805638

Yes, unlike socialism. Well done, capitalism is a vastly better system by your own admission.

>>385805701
>"everything we own is a part of our chinese debt": the country
>#1 superpower

>>385805558
I thought imperialism was evil anon?

>>385805625
The USSR was strong for the better part of a century.

It fucked itself up, but it was by no means an assured thing that it would fuck up. Kantrovich laid down the framework to vastly increase their economic efficiency in the 60s, but instead they chose to pursue nuclear expansion.

And the US played a very active role in fostering that kind of paranoia.

And as for china. Tell me what China's banking structure looks like. I'll wait.

>>385805594
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrIQF2sK3cc

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>>385805765
Who's gonna make us pay?

That's what I thought.

inb4 Blizzard buys Venezuela and turns it into OverwatchLand.

>>385805720
>small group of people organise in such a way they extract the benefits that used to belong to a different group
>this means that it's preferable to a system where this isn't part and parcel

>>385805783
It is, but they had fundamentally different economic distribution systems to capitalism. Many of them actively disliked the concepts that are at the root of modern capitalism.

>>385805712
>Do they? Well I mean, they do, but I thought they still called them Libertarians?
Libertatians are a completely different beasts from liberal and liberals, more close to anarco-capitalists than liberals (mostly because liberatrians don't give a shit about social issues, while liberals says "let the man decde for himself and judge him in base of their actions rather than race/nationality").
To be honest, I've never really understood the difference between Libertarians and Ancap, so I might be wrong in that.

>>385805765
And who does China owe money too? Everyone owes money to the Bank of International settlements and the world financial system runs on debt.

>>385804587
I miss Tay.

>>385803296
MAMMA MIA LUIGI PIZZA SPAGHETTI MEATBALLS

>>385798760
So why is the president still trying to keep this clown show going on? His money is going to run out eventually as well if he doesn't lose his head before that.
There's time to admit you were wrong and it has passed long ago for him.

>>385805909
Yes they were typical socialists who operated on a class system and knew what was best for the plebs.

>>385805950
China's debt structure is fucking impenetrable by design.

>>385801702
honestly if the situation is that shit then going full auction house jew is really lucrative profession in venezuela

>>385801178
>Decimate your private sector via massive redistribution policies
>Country now only floating on a single natural resource extracted and exported by the public sector
>US + Russia + OPEC trade war causes price of said natural resource to plummet
They deserve it for being so retarded tbqh

>>385805942
Oh. I thought that was what libertarians stood for as well.

>>385805526
Humans are good at Capitalism because it's BARELY an "ism". It's not like Communism, which requires centralised power, Capitalism can work (shouldn't, but it can) without ANY state overlooking it, because the market (What other people are willing to give you instead) is the best at determining how valuable an item is.

I mean you can see that in multiplayer video games, an economy, and a market doesn't need the developer to control it, the playerbase will naturally evolve their own econom. It doesn't even need the concept of money to function, although it's obviously a useful concept. Hell outside vidya, you can see it in illegal goods. Who decides the value of illegal substances like weed? The buyers and sellers alone.

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>>385805878
Do you even realize how hopelessly reliant on asian import you are?

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>>385804587
>redpilled
It was just a inference engine, a chinese room, stupider than a parrot in that respect.
It learns a series of responses to messages, not what they actually means.
/pol/ just spammed it with "Gas the kikes" and "hitler did nothing wrong" and it picked up, it didn't know what "gas the kikes means" or who hitler is, just that it's the way people talk to each other and adapted by consequence.

Have a Hidler

>>385806040
But they owe money to somebody right? They have their own private central bank after all which is an extension of the BIS.

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ITT

>>385806190
So pretty much exactly what happens to real people on the Internet?

>>385806127
don't worry, this shit is convulted as fuck. They're more like "fuck it, the Market will find a way".

>>385806145
You literally have no market without a state to build it, try and form property markets without states. This is the great trick capitalists caught onto early, they naturalised a lot of concepts and then decided to sell them as aspects of capitalism when they exist in even feudal economics.

>>385806295
Isn't that largely what liberalism is about as though? Well that+treat everyone as an individual based on their actions.

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Will criminals one day hide their ill-gotten cash in mmorpg money? Will it one day be in their benefit to make sure mmorpgs are popular and good enough to draw in players so they can continue using the game to move around or store money?

>>385806213
Yes, but we have no idea who, what it looks like. They probably in part owe it to themselves.

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Well, /v/? Who's the banana now?

>>385806190
anon you are otherwise correct but your use of the term chinese room is misinformed

>>385806398
Steam already basically does that service.

>>385806145
And Humans are better at Feudalism you kike.
The "market" existed since forever, but kikes like you claim to have invented it.
Just fuck off.

>>385806190
>a chinese room

A chinese room can be sentient you mongoloid. That's fucking racist. It's not because it doesn't process time as fast as you that it isn't sentient dumbass.

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>>385806408
Got to love bureaucracy.
>>385806464
How could he a white male possibly know of such things.

>>385806363
yes but usually liberals agree that we need a state of some sort, a very very small state but we need it. (while the point of libertarians is that the state will always find a way to grow and kill personal liberties if I remeber correctly. I read ths shit years ago).

>>385806341
So you're telling me it's impossible for me to trade my knife for someone's boots without a state?

Test

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>>385806618
THE WHITEST OF MALES

>>385805783
Imperialism is good or evil depending on whether the civilization in question has desirable traits. All the UKs former subjects are better off for having been part of the British Empire, for instance.

>>385802650
America's natural resources like Microsoft and Northrup Grumman.

>>385806341
But capitalism is older than feudalism. People were trading items even in pre-historic times.

>>385801415

Time is money friend.

>>385804685
Capitalism doesnt need the state faggot

>>385806659

Where would basic societal functions like law and order come into this system? What about medicine? How would one find something to trade for getting a limb replaced, or a broken bone set? Who enforces the rules that the market has set?

Not trying to accuse here, genuinely curious.

>>385806661
That's not capitalist, nor a market in a capitalist sense. That's just economic activity, whatever velocity it has is a different matter.

>>385806709
>All the UKs former subjects are better off for having been part of the British Empire, for instance.

I wouldn't say South Africa is well off.

>>385805532
It's actually
>Capitalists corrupt government
>So let's remove capitalists

But I mean, nice strawman.

>>385806185
Do you even realize how hopelessly reliant on American food China is? California supplies 45% of China's rice alone.

>>385806856
>So let's remove capitalists
And then everyone starves. How does this keep happening, my commie bros?!?!

>>385805942
Ancaps ARE Libertarians, but not every Libertarian is an Ancap. Even amongst libertarians, a lot of them see some value in the state (mainly as a peacekeeper role, in control of courts and contract disagreements and maybe the police), but that's the general extent of it, they don't want the state doing anything that can feasibly be handled by the market (which policing and courts can't for obvious reasons), for example the state using tax money on foreign aid is basically blasphemous to them. Ancap go the whole hog and say no state entirely, even policing and courts and such should be the responsibility of individuals, and nobody should have ANY authority over anyone else without the agent of choice (because in their eyes, by advocating for a justice system, your advocating making yourself a second class citizen). However I believe in a libertarian system, you can have state easily as long as you don't have state secrecy. Individuals should be able to SEE what the state is doing.

>>385806341
I'm not for the abolition of the state, I'm just saying it's feasible for Capitalism to function to some degree without it because it doesn't NEED to be enforced. Property markets can exist without a state as long as SOMEONE has ownership. All the other ism economic systems, they require a centralised power structure and require a group of people who can tell you what to do.

>>385806601
Are you retarded? My post JUST said that the market can exist independently of anyone overlooking it, I JUST said that nobody invented it or needs to enforce it. Feudalism is just another ism, capitalism is a completely different system than the other isms because Feudalism DEFINITELY requires the state.

>>385806769
Bracing for ancap answer like "private security companies that totally wouldn't grow uncontrollably and become a new despotic government"

>>385806127
You are using the internet, google shit and learn little nigga

>>385801702
>that single "her"
hmm

>>385806914
>not every Libertarian is an Ancap
>t. lolbertarian

M8, i too like Mad Max, but it's shit for actual society

>>385806826
It was objectively a better place to live under apartheid.

>>385806897
So everyone outside of capitalists is a mouth-breathing retard incapable of doing things?

Unless you're a capitalist, you've got a really low opinion of yourself.

>>385806914
>Property markets can exist without a state as long as SOMEONE has ownership.

Who protects it? who governs it? who dictates the terms?

You create that body and very quickly you'll notice you've just set up a state.

>>385806987
No incentives = No growth

Dumb commieposter

>>385806659
Ah. I see.
To be honest I don't have much of a reference since I live in Sweden and pretty much every party here is just varying degrees of social-democracies. Even the damn "Liberal Party" is pretty authoritarian. The fucking nationalistic party is probably more liberal than the liberal party at this point.

>>385806769
I do think they still want some state. Otherwise it would just be straight up anarchy. But otherwise let the consumers steer the market. Let people vote with their wallet and all that.

>>385806931
But it's fun discussing it and learning with real people.

Capitalist states turn into feeding frenzies of corporate bodies waging war on each other trying desperately to buy immortality in hopes of killing off any competition before they can be killed.

Communist states turn into slave labor dictatorships where the leaders bask in the glories of capitalism privately.

This is historical fact.

>>385806661
A state provides services that make it likely the person cannot get away with keeping their boots, taking your knife, and shanking you with it.

Hypothetically speaking, you could hire some sort of security service to prevent this from happening but the collection and use of force potent enough to deter someone from shanking you will likely require consent from most other people or at least overwhelming force so that there is no choice.

Majority consent and overwhelming force seem to be attributes of a state.

Of course, personal morals and perhaps a desire to not harm someone who you mutually benefit from also stops them from taking your knife and shanking you. But I believe once you go up to consider larger deals, there needs to be some sort of organization that controls or mediates trades by consent or overwhelming force. I guess the answer is, yes you can trade without a state or state-like entity but no, most people rely on a state or state-like entity to reduce risk in their trades.

>>385806769
that's the point,for liberals you need a state to do this. For libertarians is all private matters. I talked with a couple of them, plus watch some podcast, and everyone agrees on that. I'm more close to "classical liberalism" (liberalism before the SJW takeover and their successful release, which I think it's a laughable term but you'll hear liberals naming himself in this way very often in the web) btw. Ancap? I have no fucking clue in what thei differentiates from libertarians.

>>385807029
I would say not starving is a pretty strong incentive.

>>385806987
He probably thinks the act of resource distribution is innately capitalist. Because people don't actually know what capitalism is and ahve been brainwashed to believe economic activity = capitalism.

>>385807080
Consumer protection is a more relevant example. Consumer protection usually has authority given to it by a state which has power through consent and power. If you get a shitty product and personal measures to get a refund or revenge (through bad reviews) don't cut it, you go to the state to get things resolved since they have the power necessary to challenge the company who screwed you over.

You Americans should never ever let a socialist get into power, not an ideologue at least. There's enough crazy people in your country to actually want communism installed.

You can hate capitalism all you want and note its imperfections, but it allows for the proper valuation of goods and services - an essential feature in any functional modern day economy.

>>385807054
>But it's fun discussing it and learning with real people.
Yeah, but there's a lot of misinformation and people with agendas on here trying to get more people yelling for their side. Objectivity on 4chan is rare these days. I know it's not better on a lot of the internet, but jesus this place is a recruitment camp for so many sides lately it's ridiculous.

>>385807108
>get hungry
>work on farm to make food
>communist government comes and takes away all the food
>can't do shit about it
>still hungry

I'M SO HUNGRY

Communists need to go.

>>385807173
No one actually wants communism because Americans are too materialistic for it. Only backwoods commune cults actually want communism.

America is basically centrists versus the far right with a bunch of college kids believing their own memes.

>>385807173
Is it proper valuation if the seller is trying to get a high as possible price for the product or service? He doesn't have to accomplish this through merely providing the best product, he can use methods like cutting out all the competition- see verizon and other shitty isps who more or less have a monopoly in some parts of America.

>>385806914
>Are you retarded? My post JUST said that the market can exist independently of anyone overlooking it, I JUST said that nobody invented it or needs to enforce it. Feudalism is just another ism, capitalism is a completely different system than the other isms because Feudalism DEFINITELY requires the state.
Holy shit. Fuck off with your isms you tumblr purple haired land whale. You also need a boss aka a tribal chief aka a king to tell your dumb ass what to do.
Literally existed since forever and your painting it as something unnatural you fat dyke.

>>385806985

I thought the poster meant after the Brits pulled out. Before then though, yeah SA was allright.

>>385807279
I'm pretty sure all the gibmedat welfare queens would love communism if they were educated enough to know what it is.

>>385806914
Wouldn't ancap just lead to some form of feudalism or oligarchy in the end? Especially with nothing to keep monopolies in check.

>>385807185
True, but that's also part of the fun.

>>385803636

They might as well rename their nation to Tropico.

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>>385798760
It's unfortunate, really. At the rate this is going all the commies will starve to death before they get a chance to be physically removed.

>>385806881
Nope. California doesn't produce food anymore because the democrats shut off the water. No more lettuce and tomatoes for China. No more cheap avocados for tourists. Just dirt (which is more than that liberal shitheel deserves but still)

>>385806974
Anon It might be hard for you to grasp but people are not actually as greed as you think they are. There are some anons in this very thread who are doing more than the venezuelan state did in their entire existence.

>>385807342
Pretty much. I don't know why people think anarchy is in any way sustainable. It's just a transition state. A void naturally gets filled, you can't just keep it a void forever.

>>385806914
>Ancaps ARE Libertarians, but not every Libertarian is an Ancap. Even amongst libertarians, a lot of them see some value in the state (mainly as a peacekeeper role, in control of courts and contract disagreements and maybe the police), but that's the general extent of it, they don't want the state doing anything that can feasibly be handled by the market (which policing and courts can't for obvious reasons), for example the state using tax money on foreign aid is basically blasphemous to them. Ancap go the whole hog and say no state entirely, even policing and courts and such should be the responsibility of individuals, and nobody should have ANY authority over anyone else without the agent of choice (because in their eyes, by advocating for a justice system, your advocating making yourself a second class citizen). However I believe in a libertarian system, you can have state easily as long as you don't have state secrecy. Individuals should be able to SEE what the state is doing.

Thanks for the clarification. But then, were's the difference between ancap and old anarchism?or better, is ancap anarchism at all? it doesn't seem to me.

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>Haha, no. If we had a communist utopia, I would be working in the government, not in the fields!

t. every stupid fucking marxist in this thread

>>385807404
>California
>not producing food
I guess a quarter of the world will be dead by the end of 2017 due to starvation.

>>385807016
>Who protects it? who governs it? who dictates the terms?
Individuals. That's the point. Why do you assume that people cannot police themselves? Also, this comes with the assumption that without a state, people will literally tear each other to shreds. If you believe people are like that naturally, then how do they work in a state? What exactly makes police the only arbiters of violence. Also you CAN hire (or provide) security which functions somewhat as a policing system, but the difference is, it would be entirely CHOICE based. If you were to hire a company to enact justice on somebody who attacked you, then they would need to fulfill their obligation to keep reputation and prove their value, but they would not have any jurisdiction over other people in a legal sense.
The terms are dictated by the market. Again, value doesn't need to be enforced because something's value is an innate (but subjective) property that doesn't NEED to be dictated. The value of something is what somebody buys/sells it for. You can put 10 hours of labour into something, but if nobody wants to purchase it then it's worthless.

I don't understand why you think a state is necessary for any of this.

>>385802962
Classic socialism fault.

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>>385807016
>no state means no government

>>385801178
Pretty much like everyone said, oil based economy. Plus JewSA constantly meddling in their affairs.
https://inserbia.info/today/2014/04/cia-plans-to-overthrow-venezuela-govt-via-students-trained-in-yugoslavia-media/
https://sputniknews.com/military/201707261055890332-us-venezuela-coup-latinamerica/

>>385807512
Because your concepts rely on a large set of assumptions, like everyone agreeing, a lack of existential threats, etc.

When you actually account for these things sate apparatus is mandatory.

>>385807512
>hire (or provide) security which functions somewhat as a policing system, but the difference is, it would be entirely CHOICE based
What a beautiful fairy tale. Now let me tell you what it would be in reality: a mob collecting protection money from everyone.

>>385807658
>Plus JewSA constantly meddling in their affairs.
Talking like this makes you a Communist cuckold.

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>>385807658
>WAAAAAAAAAAH IT'S THE BIG MEAN USA

Why is socialism so fragile?

>>385807512
What gives a hired security force jurisdiction or power over the person who supposedly wronged you? Is there not a conflict of interest?

>>385807658

>cia-plans-to-overthrow-venezuela

Fuck man if there isn't sure proof that the CIA are evil fuckers...

Does that means that 1 gold in game is worth 1 whatever the Venezuelians are using ?

Guess it's time to find a luxurious place spared by the shitstorm they are facing to spend my holidays, and only by paying with golds I would have gained by picking up virtual flowers and minerals in game

>>385807512
>Why do you assume that people cannot police themselves?
Because it literally never happened in the history of the world?
Even worse than fucking commies jesus christ.

>>385807806

Probably has something to do with the value of a WoW token, which has a fluctuating, but relatively constant rate of exchange into real money.

>>385798760
Wait arent spics mexican? Venezualens are mexicans or? Hey man I'm ignorant about these things. Dont bully.

>>385807871
>into real money.

You mean Blizzard Fun Bucks.

>>385807658
>Sputnik
Literally fake news

>>385807692
>Now let me tell you what it would be in reality: a mob collecting protection money from everyone.
Which is different from a taxed justice system with jurisdiction over other people... how? "We need to pay these guys protection money and give them the ability to punish us or else people might demand protection money and have the ability to punish us"
The only difference is you can fight against the mob that does it.

Also I'm not a proponent of the idea, but it's definitely possible.
>>385807689
>Because your concepts rely on a large set of assumptions, like everyone agreeing, a lack of existential threats, etc.
No it doesn't, I addressed this in the last post.
What exactly does everyone have to AGREE to?

>>385807896

Yeah, but isn't there a long and convoluted way to turn that money into real money?

>>385807813
Are you saying Tribal societies have policemen? Lmao laugh at the retard.

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>>385807758
Well, I'm from a post soviet country, so take from it what you want, you nigger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country

>>385807773
>be literal cancer of the earth
>waaah why does everyone hate me

>>385807802
CIA has a history of doing this kind of shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

>>385807907
>f-fake news

>>385807054
>To be honest I don't have much of a reference since I live in Sweden and pretty much every party here is just varying degrees of social-democracies. Even the damn "Liberal Party" is pretty authoritarian. The fucking nationalistic party is probably more liberal than the liberal party at this point.
Same here actually, I live in Italy and the ever party is some kind socialism vasiant. This iswhy I hate socialism.

>>385807512
Again, wouldn't it just create oligarchies and feudalism?

People are stupid, and for the most part voting with your wallet simply doesn't work on a large scale, people love to complain all day but they won't do anything or stop buying their products or services, and certainly not when monopolies become the norm since then they won't even have a choice, and you could argue there is a thin line between government and a monopoly/rich land owner.

>>385807975
Blizzard Fun Bucks can't be converted into real cash.

You farm gold ->
Buy WoW token with gold ->
Convert token into 30 days sub OR $15 in Blizzard Bucks in your account->
Use Blizzard Bucks to buy Blizzard products

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>>385806217

>>385807512
That sounds like the mafia.

>>385808036
Tribal societies aren't made up by millions and millions of people, but a tribe is generally around 150 people. Even communism can work fine with only 150 people unless I'm mistaken.

>>385807972
>What exactly does everyone have to AGREE to?

To follow your rules for starters. What happens if they don't? do you just have some open ended authority to send thugs after anyone you want? Do you have an answer for a state deciding to annex your stuff? what currency do you use? how do you manage inflation/deflation, etc?

It's not tenable in any way, it's pure fantasy. Capitalist tendency requires state apparatus to function. How do you have fucking central banking without state backing?

>>385808092

Ah, right. The article makes it sound as though you could actually trade in game gold into something with which you could buy actual items in Venezuela. I should have known that Blizzard wouldn't do something that completely moronic, though if they could get away with it they would definitely do so.

>>385808056
Which country?

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>tfw you're european
>240k+ for a token
>look at american token
>115 - 120k
Fuck you, it is not fair!

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>ITT

Why are these threads so comfy when most Americans are asleep? Even the mod noticed this and kept it when he nuked all the other off topic threads that were made alongside this one.

>>385807512
What happens with monopolies? Ultra-rich?

Ancaps always think small. They always think about small communities living in capitalistic harmonies, and everything is right and true in the world in their little utopia. But the world doesn't work like that.

Let's say Murder, Inc is the biggest private security company. Murder, Inc has all the gun. What prevents Murder, Inc from literally enslaving everyone? The market? The market doesn't care if Murder, Inc becomes Hitler. The market would even be pleased, slavery is optimal.

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>>385808152
>>385806217

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>>385808252
Why does it matter?

>>385808152
>national SOCIALISM
Your point? No one here is arguing for it.

>>385808152
National Socialism is just communism, you didn't need to change any terms.

Nice 600,000,000 jews though.

>>385808075
Yep, which leads to a system which is totally economically stagnant as industries cater to a market of one and become filled with vanity products.
Too few people understand that centralization of wealth, a common symptom in both 'socialist' and 'capitalist' dictatorial states is what leads to problems like hyperinflation.

>>385808317
LOLBERTARIANS BTFO
B
T
F
O

>>385806710
Let me tell you about California's great movie mines, where they chip Transformers movie ore out of the granite.

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>>385808352
National socialism incorporates medium to small business, where as communism doesn't involve any kind of business or money. Fuck, do you niggers ever stop for a second to even think about what you're saying?

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>>385808352
Not even slightly. National corporatist at BEST.

>>385808395
Hyperinflation is policy, Zimbabwe is a basketcase, but every other time it's been deliberate policy.

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>>385800429

>>385808178
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_in_Maya_civilization
Next question, please.

>>385808075
>Again, wouldn't it just create oligarchies and feudalism?

Well yes and no, the thing is, in an Ancap system justice is, as I said, enforced by individuals. If an oligarch DOES piss everyone off, he might get murdered, and there's no real consequence for whoever murders him because consensus rules.
As a system becomes more socialist, it will trend towards monopoly anyways, because socialism is literally giving the state monopoly. People say the solution to all these problems is let the state do the EXACT thing they don't want to happen so that nobody can.

I mean for the guy, look up the rate of civil forfeiture in the US. For the guy saying the mob will just take protection money, how is having to pay for a police service which routinely robs it's citizens any different?

>>385808329
Want to know where backwards retards who shill for communism and Russia come from.

>>385808460
We have to pay off China's debts somehow, however Transformer ores are running out. We need another resource.

>>385806190
>"eu te amo"

>>385808036
>implying there wasn't anyone in charge of tribe security
They're called warriors retard.

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The only good form of socialism is national socialism.
Sieg Heil!

>>385808317
>Let's say Murder, Inc is the biggest private security company
Is it bigger than the public? How exactly can you stop other people getting the gun? There's literally no regulation.

>>385808521
>how is having to pay for a police service which routinely robs it's citizens any different?

It's called a mandate. It's a core of every system of government we've ever had.

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>>385804064

Can you really expect anything else from people believing in the teachings of the guy who wrote the Communist Manifesto

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>>385808547
Eastern Europe. All down hill from here ever since the 90's and this is including gibs from EU. More than enough of people here who're pissed with the current situation in the world.

>>385808609

What's stopping one guy getting all the guns and giving them all to his four buddies and they start killing people that don't trade with him?

>>385808347
how fucking mad are you now that I can predict the future
>>385808582

>>385808609
By acquiring all the major gun manufacturers, so your whole opposition is left with homemade peashooters or, more likely, nothing.

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>>385808720
Pretty mad.

>>385807016
see
>>385807512
I think we still need a super partes figure elected by the people (I.E: state) to be sure not to end up in a oligarchy like that post will surely end up, but hey, I also like Shadowrun so I might find a megacorporation world government fun
t. classical liberal

>>385808690
The communist manfiesto was written on commission and it's -really- not that radical. The most radical thing is where he claims the petty craftsmen of the world are already fucked because of large factory corporations muscling them out.

Kapital is his big work which is actually a really fucking insightful book weather or not you actually agree with Marx' political stance he actually did an incredibly through analysis of capitalism.

>>385798760
Nobody uses the Venezuelan currency. The people there with money go to special supermarkets were they can get everything and pay with dollars or euros.

The government has made it illegal to exchange currencies but the elite always find a way. Basically the entire Venezuela economy (what's left of it) uses Western currencies in cash. Mostly $.

Poor people are still poor. Rich are still rich. The only ones who truly suffer are the middle classes.

>>385808465
"National Socialism" is nothing of the sort. "State" run industries are run for the profit of the oligarch owners and the regime as a whole is run as a money making operation.

This was true both of 1930s Germany where most of the states 'socialist' projects were really ways to accumulate funds that were diverted into the pockets of the wealthy or to the military, and today in Putin's Russia.
The key element of any totalitarian government is that they're totalitarian. 'Capitalist' vs 'Socialist' generally only determines what the oligarchs pretend to be successful businessmen vs average workers / civil servants.

>>385808582
>national "socialism"
It was only called that to gain the democrats sympathy lmao

>>385808609
So your 'perfect' government is the one where everyone shoot each other constantly, where the only way to prevent you from being enslaved is to spend a significant portion of your income in guns and tanks, where everyone is in pretty much a permanent civil war? Seem like a literal blast.

And you still haven't answered my question. Murder, Inc wins. They get the monopoly on weapons. God knows it's just how it works in every single capitalistic society: concentration of resources and monopolies follow soon after.

What happen then? When after 250 years of constant civil war Murder, Inc wins and decide to enslave everyone forever? What happens mate? It's not some far fetched improbable scenario I'm telling you, it's the logical conclusion of any capitalist society. What happens?

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>>385800429

>>385808609
>professionally trained and equipped soldiers
vs
>literally whos with a gun that have grown soft due to pampering and lack of hard work

>inb4 vietnam
Vietnam was populated by hardy motherfuckers that fought tooth and nails daily to get where they were, murricans not so much. the second Murder Inc. start conquering land murricans will fold immediately to not lose their comfort, we saw it multiple time with regulations, government spying, etc etc. They are too preoccupied in stuffing their face with a greasy burger than care about what's happening, please Mr Government/Murder Inc.! You can take all my freedoms away but please, PLEASE! Don't take away my Super Big Whooper and 5l HFCS soda

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>>385808824

I wouldn't call the manifesto radical either, my point is more that it's an incredibly petulant book that most certainly would click with the kind of person who deals in political black and white

SOCIALISM KILLS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMszIz0TESo

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>>385808521

>>385802641

this retarded fucking meme cracks me up every time.

>>385808915
Vietnam was also, despite what some believe, mostly regular troops from the north vietnamese army, vietcong was NOT the main adversary, while they caused trouble for sure.

>>385808915

Sounds like you're projecting. Can you tell me where you were touched by McDonalds?

>>385808512
Not all Mayans were tribals though. Most were city-states or kingdoms.

In fact you could argue that there is no such thing as a mayan tribal society at all since to be a tribe you aren't bound by a overarching nationalistic culture.

I mean, the name of the article you posted says even says "Maya civilization", and a tribe ceases to be a tribe when it becomes a civilization.

>>385804413
Nobody said reckless capitalism and consumerism is good.
Some control must be established, but so far it has worked well.
For example, one thing that should be done is prevent any company from influencing the government, what should happen is the opposite.

>>385808317
This is why libertarianism is sensible but ancaps are retarded
Classical liberals like based Teddy are what America needs at all times

>>385808869
yeah sadly both still have their batshit crazy followers

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So this is the power of socialism!

>>385808609
By killing you when you reach for the gun?

>>385808686
And what exactly makes mandated theft any more lucrative to the individual?

>>385808715
>>385808745
This makes no economic sense. As scarcity increases, so does value.
And you don't seem to understand there's NO regulations. Who do you think makes guns? Do you think only special gunsmith families, using knowledge passed down for millenia are the only ones capable of creating firearms? Are you really so incapable of even thinking that production doesn't require a company?

Not only that, as Murder. Inc starts buying up all those other gun companies, scarcity dictates that guns will become much more valuable. So not only do people get one reason to make their own guns (because it's a useful tool they need), small scale production will become more lucrative giving them more of a reason to make guns and distribute them.

Also you seem to think the market is retarded. Nobody is forcing people to sell their company, and you know what? If selling your company is handing control over to Murder Inc, they're PROBABLY not going to do it, because they'll see the writing on the wall,and PROBABLY wouldn't enjoy it.

And you think MY idea relies on retarded assumptions. You think people can't think a day in advance for fucks sake.As well as this, what stops this from happening in the current system? What exactly is stopping the US Government conquering a fuckload of countries? Why exactly are states more moral than the people who make them up?

>>385809223
>This makes no economic sense
"Establishing a state with you at the top makes no economic sense"

Ancaps.

>>385808868
>This was true both of 1930s Germany where most of the states 'socialist' projects were really ways to accumulate funds that were diverted into the pockets of the wealthy or to the military
I'd like to see some sources on this claim. There were more than enough medium and small sized business that were independent, though were excluisvely owned by Germans, if we're talking about Germany.

>and today in Putin's Russia
More than enough big business in Russia that's not state owned, though somewhat regulated. I know a few people who work in companies like 1C.

>The key element of any totalitarian government is that they're totalitarian.
This is changing the subject matter at this point. Totalitarian or not, in today's current economic sphere a country has to make revenue to be able to stay afloat.

>'Capitalist' vs 'Socialist' generally only determines what the oligarchs pretend to be successful businessmen vs average workers / civil servants.
In Capitalist societies the business usually seeks out a way to minimize the cost and maximize the production. This is why you see constantly work being exported to countries with cheap labor force, whilst the parent country starts to lose it's positions on the market. A good example is to look at China and US. The unemployment rate in the US is slowly growing, again, yet huge business still prioritizes to export itself across the sea, to pay less to the workers.

>>385809087
Its entirely possible for tribal culture to create civilizations and for that tribalism to continue during that.
Look at the tribal mentality that dominates politics in many parts of the world where the tribal identity is more important than the policies or behavior of the people competing for power.

>>385808869
Hitler's socialism was not marxist socialism.
Hitler was full on board with private property and small business. He just wanted to stop big businesses from exploiting his people.

>>385809297
No, letting someone establish a state with you at the bottom makes no economic sense dipwad.

>>385809223
>And what exactly makes mandated theft any more lucrative to the individual?

It's a long standing exchange which has evolved over centuries of conflict between preasents-rulers-elites

It's clear you have never even looked at anything more complex than basic supply and demand, and there's nothing to stop collusion anywhere.

How do we stop power structures ever appearing again among groups of people?

>>385809223
>This makes no economic sense.
>establishing a monopoly over a crucial product makes no economic sense

>If selling your company is handing control over to Murder Inc, they're PROBABLY not going to do it because all that's in it for them is a shitload of money and not being attacked by Murder Inc's goons

>Are you really so incapable of even thinking that production doesn't require a company?
>Because people make homemade guns out of iron ore all the time

You seem like a genius. Please tell us more.

>>385809332
(((big businesses)))

>>385809305
>There were more than enough medium and small sized business that were independent

And their profitability fell through the floor year on year.

>>385809332
>barred trade unionism except through some small, mostly toothless avenues