Thoughts: https://youtu.be/D76j7V6UlUk?t=14m1 3s So basica

>Draw an Overwatch reject
>Call it a Smash character

>>385714760
Everyone knew that since the shitty teaser because the characters have the same fucking stance and movesets. It's a literal copy-paste job.

>>385714760
The more I look at the character designs, the worse they look.

Game would've been better with a completely different aesthetic.

>>385714863
>Overwatch reject
Hey now... that's an insult to Blizzard's artists. These dudes WISH they could have characters nearly as good as OW's scrapped content.

>>385714917
Also if characters weren't just literal clones of Smash characters.

>Smash ripoff
>No Smashfag Self-Insert with Wario's moveset

Why bother

>>385714969
I guess its OKAY when rivals of aether does it!

>>385715013
I have never played that game. It doesn't look very good either.

>>385714760

Absolutely degenerate. Literally lifting every major feature and moveset from a beloved with nothing to add upon it but shallow changes made to appeal to people that think the game is too hard.

It's the most transparent cashgrab I've seen in a good long while

>>385715013
When RoA did it, it was still very jarring and felt out of place, but at least they didn't totally rip off whole movesets from Smash, just a couple moves, which is passable.

All these characters have no original moves, and the copied ones are animated so poorly that they feel very wrong.

>Ogre bitch doing Zangief's Lariat
Why?

>>385715013

rivals of aether lifted one whole character and even then he ended up quite a bit different, every other character is at least pretty new.

>>385714760
>THIS GAME WILL BE THE NEXT BIG THING IN ESPORTS!!

Kek

Absolutely delusional StrongBad. Absolutely delusional.

>>385714760
But don't you remember, Meleefags claimed that these guys are soooo mucj better than the Smash devs when they farted out Project M, as though modding an existing game was the same as making one from scratch.

>>385715230
>Ogre bitch doing Zangief's Lariat
I actually like the idea of a Smash-type game having a power grappler like Gief and doing things they might do in a regular fighting game.

But then they fuck up the execution by creating this really ugly, forgettable-looking female Orc character and giving it to her. This whole design aesthetic is very boring and just seems really out of place. They seriously couldn't think of anything else?

I always thought there should be more smash clones, but this looks like a chinese knockoff

>>385715547
You mean DK?

>1 hour of only the same 2 characters.
also attacks need way more animations.
Smash 4 had nice clean hit effects where are they here?

>>385714760
>thinly veiled pol thread

Honestly animations at least look better than the initial reveal, but still looks pretty disappointing. I look forward to seeing where this game's production ends up going

>>385715687
I was saying this for ages about Project M, how everything felt weak and looked off. Now they will see.

>>385715694
What?

No one is talking about /pol/, you can't brush aside valid criticism toward a game by bringing up politics, or the /pol/ boggeyman.

Fuck off.

Game looks like ass.

>>385715832
I'm not saying that ops opinion is wrong or right

just that this is a pol thread
>pol boogeyman

what does this even mean, that pol isn't real lel

>>385715820
Everything about the new smash games look and feel weak.

>>385715668
I mean more of an actual wrestling, like Zangief.

You know how Ryu in 4 has traditional fighting game inputs? I've always wanted to see Gief playable in Smash and playing similarly, like having a 360 + normal input to do an EX SPD or something.

>>385715896
/pol/ is real, but you can't use them as a scapegoat to derail any form of criticism toward something.

No one is talking about politics here, nor has it been brought up at any point till you jumped in.

>>385715896
> good moot still has not implemented a 6 month up ban for new fags.
Lurk more

>>385715947
(you)

>>385716096
Ha ha yeah give me thay non argument.

They already said they're changing the animations, but people will just endlessly shitpost based on outdated information anyway because shitting on other people's work makes them feel like they have superior intelligence or something. That said, it was dumb as fuck for them to show the game in that state. Especially in a video that presented itself like a finished game trailer during EVO.

The character designs aren't great, but I feel like people would bitch about this no matter what. RoA gets shit for being 2d, pixel, and "furry" depending on who you talk to, despite having pretty solid graphical design in my opinion. I think Icons' characters are perfectly serviceable for what it is. Yeah, the style looks a little generic, but it's competent, and if it were more realistic or heavily stylized you'd have people bitching about that too. There really was no winning in this regard and I think they just have to go forward with what they have. Animations and particle effects are still obviously in an alpha state and not fit to be judged as a complete product. Again, showing the game too early was a huge mistake here.

I think once the game has another year of development and they can release some more polished footage people will come around. Hopefully they take this as a wake-up call and can really put their asses into gear cleaning up those animations.

>>385716015
>op
>chink, niggress

why are you pretending this isn't a pol themed thread. Why are you pretending that I think your opinion is wrong or right.

>>385716181
If you had the intent to argue you would have examples to back it up

>>385716268

Stop posting you fucking triggered moron.

>Melee was made in a year with less funding and without EA backing it.

>These guys can't make a literal clone in the three years thia game has been in development.

How shitty is America at work ethic?

>>385716212
How's the pay at wave dash to damage control?

>>385714760

I have a feeling Nintendo is going to shut their butt down

>>385716274
>Big ass blastzones make the few good moves in the game feel like piss poor bullshit because rarely anything killa under 80 anymore.
>All competitive stages are the ones from brawl
>All characters basically play the same footsie neutral oriented game
>Only two characters have combo potentional
>Animations have nerfed sweetspots and gigantic amounts of end lag so hitting a competently spaced aerial is risky, unrewarding, and down right unfun.

>>385716212
Rivals of Aether is a dead game with a set meta. You need a better example.

>>385716514
These have nothing to do with the original statement of animation. You are bitching about not Muh melee.

why the fuck did they seriously only show off two characters

what

Holy shit, this looks bad.

File: peachy.png (26KB, 186x176px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 186x176px

>>385714760
>nu-male devs

>>385716642
No Combos, the aesthetics moves are performed in (lighting, color balance). The characters that use them, and how useful they are have everything to do about the animations.

Unless you're combofiend. Faggot

>>385716462

They let me out of my cage to post here, please keep this thread alive, it's the only time I'm allowed to use the bathroom and nobody has changed my bedding in months. Please dude. You gotta keep posting.

>>385716594

Huh? I only used it as an example in terms of graphics. Also, it's still getting new character DLC so I wouldn't call it "dead." Not that that really has anything to do with what I was talking about.

>>385716514
>maylay fag
Opinion discarded.

>>385716745
My favorite smash is pm.

>>385716705
Melee attack animations are shit and Jank looking.

>>385716730
And rivals is unappealing in a graphical standpoint and gameplay standpoint.
To the point where dan himself admits that everyone baring absa and etalus needs sprite reworkings.

Fuck Zetter still is naked.

>>385716778
Oh in that case
>opinion discarded.

>>385716898
They are impactful and actually add to the gameplay, and if your statement was true there would be nothing memetic about Falcon punch,Knee of Justice, or shine. Nice non argument.

>>385714760
Looks good and original, like Paladins, and unlike that pile of shit Overwatch.

>>385714760
Is it possible for Nintendo to send a C&D towards these """devs"""? This looks way too much like Smash

>>385716986
I think you are.mixing up the use of animation to make a sense of impact with "it hits hard"
But hey ur favourite smash game is a mod.

>>385716212
>make marth, but with a different skin
>why are people shitting on us
I wonder.

>>385717203
And One of my points is nothing hits hard in Smash 4 and Brawl. This can be seen with the abhorrent lack of hitstun in those said games.

>>385717276
Hit stun. means jack shit to my argument about animations.
Flying far away means nothing about the animations dying means nothing about the animation. THE FUCKING ATTACKS LOOK JANK BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT FOLLOWING PROPER ANIMATION CONVENTIONS.

>>385716923

I disagree that it's graphically unappealing, and this is exactly the point I was trying to make. You're nitpicking Rivals' graphics when they are perfectly competent for their purpose. I said people would bitch about any graphical style and this is exactly what you are doing. Zetterburn being naked could stand to be corrected. I don't prefer Rivals' gameplay myself so we agree there.

>>385717121

You should write Nintendo a letter letting them know, I'm sure they will appreciate your efforts to help protect Nintendo and this project will be shut down immediately.

>>385717256

Again, they said they're changing the animations. If you're complaining about the character's overall fighting style being similar, that's literally the point of this game. It's a version of Melee with updates and character balance. This game isn't for anyone who didn't like Melee. It's for people who love Melee, but want a more balanced game after a decade and a half of the same balance and matchups. Having characters that play similarly to Melee characters is logical.

>>385717441
Conventions of animation, especially in video games, Especially in fighting games, have build up and pay off. Melee has a shit ton of pay off with its hitstun, overall more useful moves, and memetic stature to its competitive meta. Smash 4 has a shit ton of build up, due to nauseating amounts of input lag, buffer, slowness of the gameplay loop in general, and slowness of the competitive meta.
Nice cruise control, mad?

So what the fuck is the melee fanbase gonna do when the last Gamecube controller breaks and the last CRT fizzles out?

>>385717483
I don't think Nintendo has any legal foothold to get it shut down. All the assets are original, even if they are copied. And copyright doesn't protect stuff like animations or game mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, it'd be fucking hilarious if they did get shut down by Nintendo after they themselves killed PM to make this shit heap cause they got paranoid that Nintendo would sue them. But it won't happen.

>>385717483
How can you say Rivals of Aether looks presentable when not even their lead developer thinks it is?

>>385717616

Was I really not clear enough in my sarcasm? Jeez.

>>385717483
>Again, they said they're changing the animations. If you're complaining about the character's overall fighting style being similar, that's literally the point of this game. It's a version of Melee with updates and character balance. This game isn't for anyone who didn't like Melee. It's for people who love Melee, but want a more balanced game after a decade and a half of the same balance and matchups. Having characters that play similarly to Melee characters is logical.
I fail to see how they're gonna make any money off of that.

All of ten people are gonna play this shit. I mean, just look at how the Smash community received it upon reveal:

https://smashboards.com/threads/wavedash-games-announces-icons-combat-arena.448975/

>>385717580
What you are talking has quite Litterally nothing to do with animation.

>>385717580
Do you perhaps speak English as a second language?

>>385717743
Ive already explained why your rejection of evidence doesn't do anything for your argument. An animation is nothing without the body to move it, the stage it is set upon, and the player that controls it.
You can keep on ignoring this but it just makes you seem stubborn, and lacking an argument.

>>385717483
>they said they're changing the animations
And why didn't they changed it BEFORE showing us this piece of shit? Because it is a lazy ass job, since the actual point of the game is being a cheap copy-paste of a better game, using character designs found on Blizzard's garbage bin, and also with the possibility of filling it with microtransactions.

>>385717872
That's a load of fucking shit since quite Litterally all character Animations ever are made with Litterally nothing in the back ground. Expecially fighting games

Wasn't melee made in less than a year? Pretty sure it didn't have 6 mill in funding either.

>>385717961
Then they are tested in real sceneraions with live lighting and against the characters they are meant to be fighting against. Playtesting exists for a reason, unless you want more sfv tier cammy airgrabs.

>>385717692

You may be right, for all I know. The Smash fanbase, Melee especially, is a fickle one. Again, I think people's reaction will soften once they see more polished footage, but it's entirely possible that Icons will simply die due to lack of player interest. We'll see what happens, I guess.

>>385717656

I don't think the Rivals team would have released a game they felt was "unpresentable." Some things that could stand to be re-touched don't equal an unpresentable game. Fuck, have you SEEN the shit that passes for a "professional" industry title these days? Even going back to the beginning, games have been released unpolished as hell. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 was literally released as half of a game, and didn't even get all of its shit fixed in its official "complete" version. Overall I think Rivals has nice-looking stylized graphics and effects. Any artist will always have something about their work they're unsatisfied with. That doesn't mean the work isn't presentable.

>>385717913

Yeah, the reveal was dumb. Not gonna argue that.

>>385714760
Looks like shit.

Rivals is Aether is literally the best smash clone, but a lot of people turn it down cause of furries.

>>385718152
A lot of people turn it down because its imba as fuck and theres been one guy winning every tournament for 2 years straight.

It seems that nobody but Nintendo is able to get the Smash formula right.

>>385718249
Western devs suck dick.

>>385718039
>You may be right, for all I know. The Smash fanbase, Melee especially, is a fickle one. Again, I think people's reaction will soften once they see more polished footage, but it's entirely possible that Icons will simply die due to lack of player interest. We'll see what happens, I guess.
I don't fully agree. I know most people in that comments section. Most of them aren't Meleefags, hell, they're not even into the competitive aspects of Smash. They liked PM cause of the characters.

Very very few people are gonna play a Melee clone cause Melee isn't supported by Nintendo.

>>385718009
Cleary PM did non of this considering nothing looks right.
Falcon doing the knee then landing on the ground only to be fully standing. Will always trigger me.

>>385718361
Falcon had fucked animations yeah.

>meleefags going to avoid this because it's not melee
>non-melee fags don't care about an indie melee clone with shitty character design
Their goal shouldn't have been to remake melee.

>>385714760
>Smash brothers without any iconic characters-

So it missed the point and instead tries to cater to the niche of "competitive smash"? Who would buy this?

>>385718680
>>385718559

It's ironic they named the game "Icons."

Their lack of self-awareness astounds me.

>>385718680
I don't mind the game, even if it lilled pm, but there is a smugness to the developers. They said how they named their game icons because they truly believe their character designs are iconic.

>>385718326

>Very very few people are gonna play a Melee clone cause Melee isn't supported by Nintendo.

A decade ago you could also have said nobody was gonna play a DotA clone just 'cause DotA was on an outdated engine and not supported by Blizzard. You would have been completely, 100%, soul-crushingly wrong in that otherwise completely reasonable assumption. If nothing else, I think Icons at least has its business model straight. Like League of Legends, it's free-to-play with a free character rotation, and releasing on PC. That's a recipe for a ton of players in a game that they otherwise wouldn't bother trying. Paladins is doing just fine for itself, and that game looks and plays like hot garbage with absolutely no original mechanics. By contrast, Battleborn, which is essentially the same game, tried releasing at a $60 price point and that game might as well not even exist for how dead it is.

File: BfyXuwR.gif (621KB, 440x247px) Image search: [Google]

621KB, 440x247px

>>385718738
>It's ironic they named the game "Icons."
It would've been a lot better if the characters were based on histroical figures or gods like Fate or Smite.

>>385718559

All they had to do was make a smash-like game with cool characters without making it look like a Chinese knockoff of Smash.

If you ask me, one of the most important things in videogames is the characters, i never played Overwatch but from what i've seen of it it looks like a really simple game, but i would want to play it simply because i like how some of the characters look. And i wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the biggest reasons for it's success.

In the case of this game, not only do the characters look shitty, but because of their attack animations i can't help but think of Nintendo's characters when i see them, so it just makes me wish i was playing Smash, and i assume that the competitive players would just go back to Project M or Melee or their smash game of choice, and i seriously doubt that the "pro" players like M2K, Mango and Hbox will even play this.

>>385714760
Fucking buy a microphone if you're going to do shit like this

>>385718889
>A decade ago you could also have said nobody was gonna play a DotA clone
This is different. LoL wasn't just dota with a new skin, same genre but different game. This is attempting to be as close to melee as possible with minor changes. It is too close to be something different, yet has enough changes to annoy those who want exactly melee.

Dota also didn't have a quasi religious fanbase who worship every aspect and players.

>>385719180
>OPPA DENDI STYLE

>>385718889
I didn't play Dota, nor have I even played a MOBA.

But there is a vast number of differences between that genre, at fighting games. For one, not only are MOBA far more inclusive due to being team-based, but Dota essentially invented a new genre that people were already having fun with.

Smash, at the end of the day, is still a fighting game, and due to that, it still has all the pitfalls of a fighting game, and not only that, but by removing the elements that made Smash inclusive to people (the 4 player FFAs), and making it solely 1v1 competitive, you're drawing in a very narrow audience. Not only that, but unlike Dota, which INVENTED a new way to play, Icons is trying to STEAL that audience away from Smash, and is in direct competition with a much stronger IP.

I'm not saying its not possible, but the appeal simply isn't there in terms of visual aesthetics and art direction.

Nothing wrong with trying to expand platform fighters, but you need to divorce yourself from the Smash brand as much as possible in order to be successful and draw in a new crowd of people. Not only that, but your characters need to be visually appealing and interesting. ALL of their character designs are horribly bland, uninspired, and ugly. And not only that, but they're too strongly married to Melee, and proud of it too. That's their achilles heel.

If they were to make their own take on platform fighters by experimenting, and making something totally original, with interesting and cool-looking characters, they might have a chance at success. As it stands though, they've got no chance. RoA was better and had a much better approach, and it didn't do very well.

>>385718889
pt. 2

And the problem still lies in the lack of IP recognition. Which is a problem all indie games face. With out pretty art to make your game stand out amid the myriad of indie games, you're done. Look at all the indies that stood out and became a success:
Super Meat Boy, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Hyper Light Drifter, Skull Girls, Indivisible.

What do they all have in common? Especially the last two?

VERY GOOD ART DIRECTION.

>>385719501

I think this is the biggest problem with this game. It just looks like not-smash instead of looking like its own thing.

>>385719180

I think Icons has more differences than you're giving it credit for. We haven't even seen half the movesets of the characters that appear to be clones at the moment. And if Melee players won't play it, perhaps it'll gain its own playerbase which may even surpass Melee eventually. Don't discount the power of poverty gamers and the Steam userbase. I'm not saying this is a sure thing, but I think only time will tell.

I know I will personally be playing it for several reasons:
1) I don't play Melee, the roster of viable characters in competition is too limited to appeal to me
2) I like PM, but there's no simple online matchmaking and the game's development is dead
3) I like the gameplay design direction and mechanics they've shown so far

>>385719448
>>385719501

Dude c'mon. You're bringing fighting games as a genre into this while complaining about originality? How many fucking fighting games are there with the same-shit Ryu clones and grapplers that play exactly the same as the Street Fighter characters they're inspired by? Most "fighting games" besides Smash might as well be the same game with relatively minor system differences.

Also, I was talking about LoL stealing DotA's audience, not DotA stealing away another game's audience. It should also be noted that DotA, at the time, used established and professionally designed Blizzard assets and characters, and still lost to LoL.

Generally agree with your points on art direction, but I also think Icons will be looking a lot better a year from now. Can't really do much about people not liking the characters at this point, but coming up with and executing a wholly original art direction isn't as easy as you'd like to think. They've just got to do what they can with what they've got and hope their gameplay is solid enough to draw players, who may then grow to like the characters. I personally like Xana's design and I'm excited to play her.

>>385720209
Yeah bro. King sure does play a lot like gief and Faust

And man Sol is Exactly the same as ryu. Man like they're so much the same The Shimada clan and the people who practice assassin's fist in Street Fighter totally play the same and are all the same.

>>385720209
>Dude c'mon. You're bringing fighting games as a genre into this while complaining about originality? How many fucking fighting games are there with the same-shit Ryu clones and grapplers that play exactly the same as the Street Fighter characters they're inspired by?
You tell me. How many are there? And how many of those have been successful?


>Most "fighting games" besides Smash might as well be the same game with relatively minor system differences.
Looks like you don't really play many fighting games to begin with, which answers my first question.

Blazblue and Guilty Gear play nothing like SF, which plays nothing like MvC, which plays nothing like Darkstalkers, which plays nothing like Mortal Combat, which plays nothing, like Tekken or Soul Calibur.

Hell there's more differences between Guilty Gear and Blazblue, or SC and Tekken, than there are between Melee and Icons. And those are made by the same developer and in the case of the first two, the same TEAM!!

The mechanics, movements, attacks, animations, playstyles, strategies, speed, etc... between all those games is radically different. So much so, that you could remove the characters, and make them all stick figures, and I could tell them apart.

>>385720209

(cont'd)

I think Icons' art design is comparable to LoL's early design, which is reasonable since the person doing the models and art is an ex-Riot artist. If LoL's early looks were enough to pull in its current monstrous playerbase, I don't see why Icons' won't do the job, if the game is good.

Smash isn't infallible in this regard, either. Fox in the games after Melee looks like he has a giant duck bill for a face. Brawl had horribly desaturated textures, and without texture mods I'd say that game is a downright eyesore just due to how washed out everything looks.

>>385720521

Obviously games are capable of having original characters, but there are also shitload of clones that nobody gets upset over, and you know it. You listed Skullgirls as an example of good art direction. Guess what game has a FUCKING SHITLOAD of moves that are DIRECTLY INSPIRED or even outright copied from other fighting games? And honestly, Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game that isn't Smash, so I'm not being biased here.

>>385720209

>Also, I was talking about LoL stealing DotA's audience, not DotA stealing away another game's audience. It should also be noted that DotA, at the time, used established and professionally designed Blizzard assets and characters, and still lost to LoL.
LoL was competing with a much smaller IP, that had a very niche audience. Not only that, but LoL won out pretty much ENTIRELY due to have much more appealing character design by creating a bunch of sexy girls as waifubait for people and cosplayers.

Icons is trying to compete with one of Nintendo's BIGGEST IP, and one of the most successful fighting games of all time, and it has NONE of the edges LoL had over Dota. Yeah, good fucking luck with that.

>Generally agree with your points on art direction, but I also think Icons will be looking a lot better a year from now. Can't really do much about people not liking the characters at this point, but coming up with and executing a wholly original art direction isn't as easy as you'd like to think. They've just got to do what they can with what they've got and hope their gameplay is solid enough to draw players, who may then grow to like the characters.

If it doesn't look better now, it won't look better later. Art direction, theme, and mood are things you set up rather early in game development. Unless they're willing to fire their entire creative team and hire a new art director, as well as scrap all of their current content, things will more or less look the same a year from now.

>I personally like Xana's design and I'm excited to play her.
I hope you're aware that you're in the minority here.

>>385720845
>but there are also shitload of clones that nobody gets upset over,
Because those will be the vast minority out of a cast who even still are very different. Sol is incredibly different Ragna, despite Ragna literally being we don't own GG make a new Sol.

>Guess what game has a FUCKING SHITLOAD of moves
Which also consistently changes up look and function. while also having a lot of new shit even in the base roster.

>>385721014

>Icons is trying to compete with one of Nintendo's BIGGEST IP, and one of the most successful fighting games of all time, and it has NONE of the edges LoL had over Dota. Yeah, good fucking luck with that.

I'll concede this point. It's an uphill battle for sure.

>If it doesn't look better now, it won't look better later.

What? I have to disagree with this. You might not like their art direction but I feel confiendet that the particle effects and animations are going to undergo heavy changes.

>I hope you're aware that you're in the minority here.

That's fine. I'm just letting you know that I like some aspects of the design so that you don't think everyone has the exact same opinion as you. I'm sure there will be people that agree with me as well.

people drawing comparisons with overwatch makes me wish blizz had made a smash style hero brawler thing instead of another fucking dota ripoff

blizz characters in a smash game might have been kinda cool

File: 1500603620343.webm (2MB, 1000x562px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1000x562px

>>385720845
>other fighting games are direct ripoffs of SF, only Smash is original
This nigga.

This is why no one ever takes you Smash fags seriously.
>Guess what game has a FUCKING SHITLOAD of moves that are DIRECTLY INSPIRED or even outright copied from other fighting games?
Yeah, INSPIRED by, not directly lifted abd made inferior. I forget her name, but the lead animator of Skullgirls is incredibly talented. She has a panel GDC where she talks about Animation for fighting games, and shows a very clear understanding of the fundamentals, and it shows when look at Skullgirls.

>>385721218
>You might not like their art direction
the reaction to it has been negative overall, you can't go anywhere without people shitting on it. A few particle effects aren't gonna change that

>>385720845
>Smash isn't infallible in this regard, either. Fox in the games after Melee looks like he has a giant duck bill for a face. Brawl had horribly desaturated textures, and without texture mods I'd say that game is a downright eyesore just due to how washed out everything looks.
Yeah, thing being, Smash is filled to the brim with ICONIC characters, of which "Icons" has ZERO.

>>385721218
>You might not like their art direction
Yeah, a lot of people don't. Particle effects and lighting are gonna fix boring and uninspired character designs with moves LITERALLY lifted from Melee, cause StrongBad is stubborn and has major boner for Melee.

>That's fine. I'm just letting you know that I like some aspects of the design so that you don't think everyone has the exact same opinion as you. I'm sure there will be people that agree with me as well.

Yes, there are. And you are a minority. Icons is not gonna be the sweeping success you and the devs hope it will be unless it undergoes sone RADICAL changes and totally scraps 90% of their current assets, starting with the character designs, and the name of the game, which you can't even properly google.

>>385721359

Obviously fighting games can be divided into broad sub-genres based on certain conventions (Anime fighters, SF-likes, Netherrealm) but they're all based on the same basic fundamentals that were established by SF2 way back when. If you're arguing that GG and other anime fighters don't have strong DNA from Street Fighter then I don't know what to tell you. Even strongly divergent games like Soul Calibur and Tekken have enough similarity that a Street Fighter character was put into the new Tekken game and works just fine. If you play tons of fighting games then you should be aware that fundamentals strongly carry over from game to game, and that's fine.

>>385721379

This is part of what I'm saying. I think the reaction overall has been overly critical. I don't think the character designs are as dogshit as everyone is saying they are. I think people have a tendency to be overly critical because they equate strong criticism with good taste or intellectualism.

>>385721497

Dude. What the fuck is Mario? He's a little fat italian guy in overalls that shoots fireballs and has a yellow piece of fabric for some reason. If someone put that in a fighting game today they would get the same response as Icons is getting. Fox is literally just an anthropomorphic fox named "Fox." Are Ice Climbers iconic? Is Ness iconic? Who the fuck is Captain Falcon? How many Smash players do you think have actually played F-Zero? This is a non-argument.

>>385721831

I think you're overly confident in your opinion with little basis. The only community that's really been widely exposed to Icons thus far is the Smash/FGC, and theirs reactions were pretty predictable on both counts for reasons not wholly related to art design. We'll see how Icons fares when it hits the Steam front page. Until then, let's not be hasty in declaring a win or loss.

File: 1448383706343.jpg (158KB, 1500x997px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 1500x997px

the art director should be taken out behind a shed and shot desu this game looks fucking awful in every way

>>385722135
you sound like a shill

>>385722135

>Dude. What the fuck is Mario? He's a little fat italian guy in overalls that shoots fireballs and has a yellow piece of fabric for some reason. If someone put that in a fighting game today they would get the same response as Icons is getting. Fox is literally just an anthropomorphic fox named "Fox." Are Ice Climbers iconic? Is Ness iconic? Who the fuck is Captain Falcon? How many Smash players do you think have actually played F-Zero? This is a non-argument.

Except for the last 3, the rest are all iconic. Smash had Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Kirby, Fox, Luigi and Samus as iconic characters that were easily recognized by anyone that was into videogames, and characters like Pikachu and Mario recognized by everyone on the face of the planet, except for maybe starving african children. Maybe.

Icons has none of that, what is worse the character designs are widely disliked, this isn't even a "only on /v/" thing, wherever you go people shit on the looks of the characters, if people don't like the characters, people don't play the characters, if people don't play the characters, the characters don't become iconic.

>>385722135
>I think the reaction overall has been overly critical
Not really. The criticism that these are generic moba like designs is easily backed up by the designers being ex-riot. The mix of mild fantasy and sci-fi is incredibly common and this does nothing to stand out from that.

Saying you don't mind it doesn't mean there aren't strong criticisms to be made

>equate strong criticism with good taste or intellectualism.
And people equate being a contrarian to that as well

>>385714760
Peach when?

File: Silhouette2.jpg (29KB, 600x120px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 600x120px

>>385722135
>If you're arguing that GG and other anime fighters don't have strong DNA from Street Fighter then I don't know what to tell you.
Guilty Gear shares as much DNA with SF as Smash does. The fact that you're arguing this despite Mario LITERALLY being a shoto clone shows how little you know about fighting games in general.

>a Street Fighter character was put into the new Tekken game and works just fine.
You say this, while Link was added to Soul Calibur, and Ryu to Smash with both of them being totally fine in those games. It's not much of an accomplishment, adapting an existing character to a game's unique mechanics isn't so far out of the blue.

>This is a non-argument.
It is most definitely an argument.
>what is Mario
Iconic
>what makes a character iconic
Their silhouette. Mickey Mouse is just a mouse with pants, and yet he's one of the most memorable characters ever created.

If you think "concept" is what makes a character cool, then you'll never understand why the Icons characters suck dick.

>I think you're overly confident in your opinion with little basis. The only community that's really been widely exposed to Icons thus far is the Smash/FGC, and theirs reactions were pretty predictable on both counts for reasons not wholly related to art design. We'll see how Icons fares when it hits the Steam front page. Until then, let's not be hasty in declaring a win or loss.

This is a non-argument my friend. The game is MADE for Smash fans first. Everyone else is gonna give zero fucks about it and just play Smash instead based on how it looks. Casuals have the LEAST reason to play a Smash clone with ugly characters, when they can just play Smash and get to play as characters they like.

>>385722135
I'm having a hard time believing you're trying to defend something so visually uninspired. Cybersuits with furries and laser guns is incredibly boring.

>>385722135
>Dude. What the fuck is Mario?
Mario's design is great.

Easy to recognize silhouette, red and blue contrast well, can easily be simplified or have minor changes while still obviously being him etc. Goatman doesn't do that at all

>>385722391

Dude please don't post that, they'll put me back in the cage, I can't go back there. I think I have an infection... Strong Bad is looking at me I think he's pissed.... Fuck dude.... NO DON'T GET THE BELT DON'T PLEASE IT HURTS SO BAD

>>385722567

True, but I've also seen character-driven games with worse designs succeed, so eh. Poverty niggas, I'm telling you. Putting out a free PC game with the pedigree of a respected competitive game will draw players no matter what.

>>385722762
>And people equate being a contrarian to that as well

Okay, but do you really think that's what I am? These are just my own opinions. I'm looking forward to trying the game and it doesn't really have anything to do with anyone else's views.

>>385722823

I know a lot about fighting games but it's clear you just want to shit on me for saying something you didn't like. Mario is a shoto clone hahaha what. Maybe in the most basic aesthetic sense possible but his moves function nothing like a shoto.

I think Icons will bring in people who would never have touched a Smash game in their life, either because they don't have a Nintendo console, they don't like Nintendo characters, or they just don't feel like paying for it. Maybe some of these people have heard of or seen competitive Melee but didn't feel the urge to dive into a 15-year-old game. Maybe some of them are interested in seeing what Melee is about but feel intimidated by the insular and highly competitive scene. Icons will let them try out real competitive platform fighter gameplay in a comfortable matchmaking setting that they are already familiar with from other games they play.

I agree that Mario's design is inherently iconic, but would people give it a chance in a fighting game if it wasn't established by decades of prior history? I'm not so sure. I think Zhurong looks more iconic than Marth, personally.

>>385721379
Even fucking Reddit shit on it, ON THEIR OWN SUBREDDIT at that. And fucking Reddit is a super PC place full of circlejerking dicksuckers.

Hell, SMASHBOARDS shit on it, that's all you need to know that this game is gonna be a massive failure. When the hub community for the target audience you're trying to sell this to does nothing but react negatively to your reveal, and respond with "PM died for this."

You know the game's gonna be a massive failure.

Why even bother to push onward after that? First impressions are massively important, and they already ruined that.

They were the laughing stock of EVO, so much so, that their reveal wasn't even ranked among the EVO reveals.

>>385722135

>what the fuck is Mario

One of the most iconic characters in existence, easily up there with Mickey Mouse and Superman as characters that are easily recognized by even grandmas.

On the other hand, Icons's characters look like they walked straight out of Wildstar or a Moba or any other generic cartoon styled western piece of garbage videogame.

Game looks fine and I wish them well. Not really into platform fighters but I'll give it a try when it comes out.

File: 1499686654549.jpg (26KB, 611x443px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 611x443px

>>385723385
>>385723565

>>385723385
>I know a lot about fighting games but it's clear you just want to shit on me for saying something you didn't like. Mario is a shoto clone hahaha what. Maybe in the most basic aesthetic sense possible but his moves function nothing like a shoto.
Mario's moves are a reference to Ryu's Specials, and his entire design philosophy is IDENTICAL to Ryu's, in that he's an easy to learn character with no real strengths or weaknesses.

Also, the arguement was the Guilty Gear shares more DNA with SF than Smash does. It doesn't, and if you can't see the very obvious differences in playstyle between an Airdasher like GG, a 3v3 fighter like MvC, and SF, then you've obviously got very little experience with fighting games. Having "complex inputs" doesn't make all the games the same. Playing on arcades, doesn't make the games the same. Yes, Smash is very different from other fighters, but not as much as you were suggesting by calling everything not Smash a SF clone you moron. That alone discredited anything you were trying to say.

I can only imagine that you're a memeber of the Icons dev team given how defensive you are over this game. And if that's the case, then that sure explains a lot given your lack of knowledge about the fighting game genre, and how awful your project is turning out.

This game literally proves that functions don't matter.

Icons is not a fighting game

>>385715013
Is this a meme? I've played it and the characters aren't smash clones

>>385724047
Absa and Zetter are literally just Frankenstein'd smash characters but the rest of the cast are original.

>>385723858

>if you can't see the very obvious differences in playstyle between an Airdasher like GG, a 3v3 fighter like MvC, and SF, then you've obviously got very little experience with fighting games.

I've played many games in all three genres and I find them to be mostly similar. Sorry. I guess this is just a difference of opinion? GG and SF are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more similar than SF is to Smash, by orders of magnitude. I don't know why you would even bother to argue this.

I guess it was inevitable that someone would accuse me of being a shill or dev team or whatever. I'm surprised more of you aren't doing it. Honestly I just enjoy putting my opinions out there and trying to argue for them as best I can. This thread has been great.

cont...
>I think Icons will bring in people who would never have touched a Smash game in their life, either because they don't have a Nintendo console, they don't like Nintendo characters, or they just don't feel like paying for it.
Lol, what? Are you insane? People who haven't heard of Smash, or haven't played it... don't play videogames, and aren't gonna play your shitty indie ripoff.

Even people without Nintendo consoles easily have access to ALL FOUR GAMES on emulators.

>I agree that Mario's design is inherently iconic, but would people give it a chance in a fighting game if it wasn't established by decades of prior history? I'm not so sure.
History isn't what makes a character iconic.

Mario is iconic cause he's well designed. He's got a memorable silhouette and a striking color balance that makes him recognizable.


>I think Zhurong looks more iconic than Marth, personally.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

As if. The overdesigned chink bitch with a blotch of yellows and browns and reds is better designed than Marth with a solid blue color scheme that blends well together.

She LITERALLY has the same silhouette as he does, but with a WORSE color scheme.

Even fucking Lucina is a better designed character than Zhu-whatever her name is. I can't even pronounce her name, that's how poorly designed this character is.

>>385724174

>History isn't what makes a character iconic.

>Mario is iconic cause he's well designed. He's got a memorable silhouette and a striking color balance that makes him recognizable.

I understand that. I'm aware of what "iconic" means. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Iconic means nothing if people aren't willing to accept the concept, and concept means nothing if the design isn't iconic. I don't think Icons is strong in either of those areas, but I also don't think that's enough to completely discount the game. I'll be waiting to see if the mechanics make the game fun to play. That's all.

>>385724131
>I've played many games in all three genres and I find them to be mostly similar. Sorry. I guess this is just a difference of opinion?
Guess what, opinion isn't objective fact.

That is LITERALLY not an argument.
>GG and SF are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more similar than SF is to Smash, by orders of magnitude. I don't know why you would even bother to argue this.
List the way and explain how. Don't just say it is.

>I guess it was inevitable that someone would accuse me of being a shill or dev team or whatever. I'm surprised more of you aren't doing it. Honestly I just enjoy putting my opinions out there and trying to argue for them as best I can. This thread has been great.
Too bad you can't argue for shit.

Rivals of Aether isn't a fighting game.

>>385724338

Dude I'm not going to sit here explaining to you why SF is more like GG than Smash. Sorry.

>>385724431
So you admit you don't have an argument?

>>385724327
Concept doesn't make a character iconic, design does.

Again, Mickey Mouse has an incredibly simple concept: A mouse with pants, and he's one of the most iconic character ever made, ENTIRELY due to his design.

The Icons character fail in this, the concept is grandiose and sounds interesting on paper, but the execution through design falls totally flat.

I'm a character designer for a living, don't fucking argue this with me, lol, I know what I'm fucking talking about.

>>385724327
>Iconic means nothing if people aren't willing to accept the concept
Iconic doesn't require people to be willing, it happens naturally. No one had to go tell people hey now we have this new Mario guy and you better fucking give him a chance cause he could be something one day.

>>385724505

I'm saying you don't have an argument so there's nothing for me to engage with. Your claim is patently ridiculous.

>>385724431
Because you don't know why, you just wanna argue that they do because it fits your original arguement.

Guess what you're wrong, but GG has about as much in common with SF as Smash does, and the fact that you're unable to argue this, means you lose.

Guess that's that then, end of story.

>>385714760
>no impact when the character hit each other
>platform fighting game


Stop trying devs nobody is gonna this shit

>>385724556
Im not the same guy. Im just calling you out on your bullshit. Nice victim complex.

Haven't opened the video, I'm gonna guess they're using fucking gamecube controllers

>>385724506

I didn't say concept makes a character iconic. I'm not sure how you managed to read that in my post.

>>385724605

Okay. Good job declaring yourself the winner of an argument that doesn't exist. If you really wanna prove your point then why don't YOU explain the similarities and differences?

>>385724746
The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim holy fuck no wonder ehy this game looks like trash yoy of all people are working on it.

>>385724746
>I didn't say concept makes a character iconic. I'm not sure how you managed to read that in my post.
Because you literally fucking did:
Iconic means nothing if people aren't willing to accept the concept,

>>385724668

Victim complex? What the hell are you talking about? What in my post indicated a victim complex? Because I replied to you assuming that you were the same guy claiming that GG is completely different from SF while Smash and SF are similar? You were the one that jumped into our argument. This is getting pretty silly, frankly.

>>385724880

You are the one claiming that SF and GG are vastly different while SF and Smash are similar. If you want to prove this I think you should feel free to do so.

File: IMG_4653.gif (655KB, 397x226px) Image search: [Google]

655KB, 397x226px

>>385714760
>Project M died for this

File: 1442365944700.gif (119KB, 384x408px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 384x408px

>>385714760

>Tall black girl
>Big orc woman

Hopefully someone likes it enough to make fanart.

>>385724932

A design can be iconic while having an unappealing concept. This is all I said. I'm literally agreeing with you.

File: SFA.png (1KB, 119x108px) Image search: [Google]

1KB, 119x108px

>PM died for this.

File: 1500603294344.webm (2MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 640x360px

>>385724746
Here you go, just LOOK at the games and the ways they play.

If you have eyes you can easily see how this is vastly different from SF. And Tekken and Soul Calibur are LITERALLY 3D Fighting games. Not even the same genre as SF.

>>385725115

>GG is fast and SF is slow so dey different!!!

ahahahahaha okay

>>385725074
No, that's what I said.

You were arguing that people should give the concept a chance regardless of design.

>You are the one claiming that SF and GG are vastly different while SF and Smash are similar. If you want to prove this I think you should feel free to do so.

I'm the guy doing that, not him, and that's not what I said.

I said GG and SF share as much in common as Smash and SF do. They're literally different subgenres, just the same as Tekken is as well.

It's like comparing First Person Shooters, Third Person Shooters, and SHMUPS.

2D Fighters, 3v3 Fighters, Air Dashers, 3D Fighters, and Platform Fighters. All very different.

You kept arguing that everything is a SF clone and only Smash is different, not only are you totally wrong, but you're also full of shit.

I bet you also think Smash is the only platform fighter out there too, huh?

Guess you've never heard of The Outfoxies or Jump Ultimate Stars.

>>385725115
>CALL OF DUTY AND GEARS OF WAR ARE TOTALLY THE SAME GAMES GUYS, HURR

This is what you sound like you stupid fanboy.

>>385725508

>2D Fighters, 3v3 Fighters, Air Dashers, 3D Fighters, and Platform Fighters. All very different.

This is where we disagree. I'd go so far as to say Guilty Gear is just Street Fighter with wacky movement options, a few gimmicks, and longer combos. The basic fundamentals are exactly the same. Two characters fight on a flat stage until their HP runs out. Block beats attack. Attack beats grab. Grab beats block. Burn meter for super attacks or cancels. Blocking is achieved by holding back, and this ties into game balance. Special moves are done with command inputs, and this also ties into game balance. The ways that you move around the stage and what you do after you hit-confirm don't make it a completely divergent genre.

Platform fighters (at the moment, pretty much just Smash) have these same concepts but apply them very differently. There are very few auto-combos. (In Melee) There is no HP bar. DI affects combos. Stages affect combos. Ledge game is a thing. Aerial movement and attacking is vastly different. Shielding is vastly different. I could go on. It's not accurate to say that SF and GG are different genres in the same way that SF and Smash are different genres.

>>385725508

Also I like that most of your arguments hinge on the assumption that I haven't played or don't know anything about the games you're talking about. I played the shit out of JUS. It's a great game. I guess you would've been happier if I hadn't played it, though.

>>385726037
>This is where we disagree. I'd go so far as to say Guilty Gear is just Street Fighter with wacky movement options, a few gimmicks, and longer combos. The basic fundamentals are exactly the same. Two characters fight on a flat stage until their HP runs out.
Then I guess Call of Duty really is the same exact game as Gear of War, I mean you have guns, and bullets, and you kill other people. You win when your teams scores more kills than the opposite team.

>Block beats attack. Attack beats grab. Grab beats block.
This is also true in Smash you sperg.

>Burn meter for super attacks or cancels. Blocking is achieved by holding back, and this ties into game balance. Special moves are done with command inputs, and this also ties into game balance. The ways that you move around the stage and what you do after you hit-confirm don't make it a completely divergent genre.
Except that LITERALLY what makes platform fighters different from other fighters.

Are you gonna argue that the Naruto games are the same as SF too since movement options don't make divergent genres?

>Platform fighters (at the moment, pretty much just Smash) have these same concepts but apply them very differently. There are very few auto-combos.
Smash 4 has a fuckton of autocombos, most of them beginning with a shield grab to down throw, followed up by Utitls and a Uair.

cont.

>There is no HP bar.
Jump Ultimate Stars has an HP bar, and it is literally a Smash-inpired Platform fighter

>DI affects combos. Stages affect combos.
Those are what you call combo break mechanics. Guilty Gear has bursts, and incremental gravity to affect combos, two things that SF does NOT have.

>Ledge game is a thing.
Not always. Rivals of Aether doesn't have Ledge game, and neither does Jump Ultimate Stars, and both are platform fighters.

>Aerial movement and attacking is vastly different.
As it is for Guilty Gear, and the Mahvel games, did you not see the Webms I posted? GG is heavily focused on aerial combat, and Air combos, this is why they have Air Dashes.

>Shielding is vastly different.
Guilty Gear also has Roman Cancels based on meter, and varying shield mechanics to avoid chip damage or push away opponents.


>I could go on. It's not accurate to say that SF and GG are different genres in the same way that SF and Smash are different genres.
Except they literally are. Air Dashers are totally different from Classic 2D fighters in that they're focused a lot more on aerial combat and long combos, as opposed to SF more grounded combat that focuses more on footsies and neutral games. Air Dashers are fiercely aggressive fighting games, and incredibly fast paced.

Not only that, but you're under the assumption that Smash is the ONLY platform fighter, when there are others you blatantly ignored that totally break your argument.

>>385726110
Because you obviously don't. You totally ignored that JUS has HP bars and no ledge game to support your argument.

Smash falls under the subgenre of Platform Fighters, which are as different from Classic Fighters like SF as Air Dashers are.

To call all non-Smash games "lazy SF clones" which was again your original statement, merely cause they follow similar fundemental bases, is fucking stupid, as 1: Smash does too, and 2: the lack of SOME of those fundamentals like Low/High blocking, proper combos, meticulous attention to movesets, balancing moves with difficult inputs, etc... are why many people feel Smash isn't a proper fighting game, but a party brawler instead, as it was designed as that FIRST, and lack the nuance that other fighting games have.

Despite that though, the elements from Smash that work for competitive play, share a lot of blood with SF and other fighters, and to argue otherwise is fucking dumb, cause "muh ledge games and no HP bars" when other platform fighters disregard those elements too.

>>385727179
>Then I guess Call of Duty really is the same exact game as Gear of War, I mean you have guns, and bullets, and you kill other people. You win when your teams scores more kills than the opposite team.

First of all, you're arguing in bad faith here, but I'm going to respond to it anyway, because I have nothing better to do. The original assertion was that Icons is shit because it has movesets that are similar to Melee characters. I pointed out that many fighting games also have very similar characters, at which point you started sperging out and claiming that fighting game sub-genres are actually completely divergent genres, which simply isn't true.

CoD and GoW both have assault rifle type weapons. Are they the same game? Obviously not. But according to the arguments against Icons earlier in the thread, they ARE the same game. This isn't my argument. This is literally what YOUR argument against Icons is.

>>385727179
>This is also true in Smash you sperg.

Did you even stop to think what happens AFTER you grab in Smash, versus a traditional fighting game like SF? Guess not.

I listed a ton of ways that PFs differ from other fighters as well, but you just ignored all that in favor of your own argument. Want some more? Ledge invincibility. Air dodging. Grab pummeling. Throw direction. Controlling your character's facing + directional attacks independent of opponent's position.

I don't play Smash 4 because it's a bad game. Not sure why you would bring that game into a conversation about competitive fighters.

>>385727381

Just gonna run through some shit here. JUS is not a competitive fighter. Bursts are not in any way comparable to DI. Incremental gravity is not controlled by the player. Some PFs lacking ledge doesn't invalidate it as a difference, as no 2D fighter has ledge. GG does not have directional aerial attacks or L-canceling.

Airdashers are a subgenre. PFs are a distinct genre. If you don't accept this there's nothing I can do about it.

>>385727951

Also GoW and CoD are both very clearly under the "shooter" genre which is then subdivided into 1st-person and 3rd-person subgenres. You're arguing against yourself here. I never claimed that SF and GG are the exact same game. I said I they are the same genre. You then said that I must thing CoD and GoW are the exact same game which is just silly.

It seems like the only thing you need to qualify a game as a "platform fighter" is that it has platforms, while completely ignoring all the ways in which Melee's systems function completely different to any other game in the "fighter" genre. You've started dragging other games into the argument, so it's gotten a bit messy, but I want to reiterate that Melee is vastly divergent from SF, while games like GG are only slightly divergent. This is the core of the argument, and why I'm saying that Airdasher is a subgenre while Platform Fighter (most strongly represented by Melee) is its own genre.

3D fighters like SC and Tekken are somewhere in between. They're too different to be considered derivative of SF, yet they share many of the same qualities, such as having two fighters on a flat stage who always face each other, and general concepts of footsies are also applied similarly.

File: 1501299381429.png (1MB, 975x1259px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 975x1259px

>>385714760
Game would be better if all the characters were furry

>>385727951
>CoD and GoW both have assault rifle type weapons. Are they the same game? Obviously not. But according to the arguments against Icons earlier in the thread, they ARE the same game. This isn't my argument. This is literally what YOUR argument against Icons is.
Cod and GoW don't lift animations and copy character silhouettes and movesets from each other. They have almost nothing in common, I can't believe you're now genuinely arguing that an FPS is the same as a TPS.

>Did you even stop to think what happens AFTER you grab in Smash, versus a traditional fighting game like SF? Guess not.
You're given more options after a grab, wow, that sure makes a massive difference.

>I listed a ton of ways that PFs differ from other fighters as well, but you just ignored all that in favor of your own argument. Want some more?

>Ledge invincibility.
Not in RoA or JUS, only in Smash, it isn't unique to Platform fighters.
>Air dodging.
And? It's also exclusive to ONLY Smash.
>Grab pummeling. Throw direction.
Aaaand?
>Controlling your character's facing
This exclusive to platform fighters and isn't much different from fighting on THREE PLANES like you do in Tekken, which you also argued is a lazy SF clone.

>directional attacks independent of opponent's position.
You have these in other fighters too.
>I don't play Smash 4 because it's a bad game.
You clearly don't play Guilty Gear or Tekken either your retarded Melee fag.
>Not sure why you would bring that game into a conversation about competitive fighters.
Because its a Smash game?

>Just gonna run through some shit here. JUS is not a competitive fighter.
And neither is Smash as per Sakurai, the FUCKING director.

cont...


>Bursts are not in any way comparable to DI. Incremental gravity is not controlled by the player.
It is a COMBO BREAK MECHANIC, there are many ways to implement these, DI is just one of many.

>Some PFs lacking ledge doesn't invalidate it as a difference, as no 2D fighter has ledge.
Most platform fighters have ledges, and lack ledge mechanics, this is exclusive to Smash

>GG does not have directional aerial attacks
Except it does, you've obviously never played it.
>or L-canceling
It's got Roman Cancelling which was a mechanic intentionally designed into the game, not a glitch left in by developers.

>Airdashers are a subgenre. PFs are a distinct genre. If you don't accept this there's nothing I can do about it.
Air Dashers and Platform fighters are both subgenres of FIGHTING GAMES, again, the distinction is as vivid as 3D fighters like Tekken and DoA is from SF. Or as FPS, TPS, Arcade Shooters, Arena Shooters, etc... all differ from each other.

Fighting games encompasses ALL fighting games. Now, whether its competitively designed or not, is another story. Thus far, the only competitively designed Platform fighter has been Rivals of Aether.

You genuinely have no idea what you're talking about, and you very clearly (and admitedly) haven't even played half the games you're arguing about, just Melee.

I can see why you think Icons looks like a great game, only a narrow-minded idiot with poor taste such as yourself would find that game appealing. We're fucking done here. I'm not arguing with a retard any longer.

>>385729031
>Cod and GoW don't lift animations and copy character silhouettes and movesets from each other. They have almost nothing in common, I can't believe you're now genuinely arguing that an FPS is the same as a TPS.

They're both shooters. That doesn't make them the same game. You seem to be hung up on this notion that two games in the same genre must be exactly the same for some reason. I'm honestly not really sure what your argument is supposed to be here so I'm just gonna drop it.

>You clearly don't play Guilty Gear or Tekken either your retarded Melee fag.

I do. Argument invalidated.

At this point you're just arguing semantics so I'ma peace out. I still don't understand why you would argue that SF and GG and Melee are all equally similar. They're not. Seems like you couldn't really support this argument, so uhh... Sorry.

why are you retards keeping this thread alive? guy is obviously a shill/troll and will discard every fucking argument regarding the game.

>>385729387
>They're both shooters. That doesn't make them the same game. You seem to be hung up on this notion that two games in the same genre must be exactly the same for some reason. I'm honestly not really sure what your argument is supposed to be here so I'm just gonna drop it.
Holy shit, YOU'RE THE ONE ARGUING THAT YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

You're the one who said all other fighting games that weren't Smash were copies of Street Fighter.

You're wrong, get fucked motherfucker. And learn to keep track of a discussion next time you stupid mouthbreather.

>I do. Argument invalidated.
You clearly don't you weren't even aware of half the mechanics in GG, or the fact that you CAN do various directional aerial attacks. You actually have a higher number of aerial attacks in Guilty Gear and Blazblue than in Smash you retarded Meleetard.

>>385729603

All you did was put words in my mouth and then get butthurt when I repeated what you said back to you, lmao. GG is a glorified SF. Get over it, jesus.

>>385729940
This is your brain on Melee.

Honestly, it's cause of stuff like this that everyone hates Smashfags. I hope you enjoy continuing to be the laughing stock of the FGC. That Icons trailer sure gave everyone a good laugh.

>This game will change eSports!!

Top fucking kek. Just goes to show how out of tough all of you are.