>gameplay is king but story is the queen and her throne is

>king is the one revered by everyone and make decisions
>queen is just there to give more kings (sequels)
makes sense

Some of the best games ever have no story, so he is wrong.

>>385711348
Bad story make the entire game look bad, so maybe

>>385711684
I want redditors to leave

>>385711637
No Story: Tetris
Story: Mario
Which is better?

YAASSSSSS SLAY QUEEN SLAAAYYYYYYY

>>385711684
not reallly, you can have shit story and good mechanics and the game will still be good. This whole narrative drive in games comes from wannabe directors that are desperate to make gaming something more than just a hobby.

>>385711813
Kill yourself.

>>385711787
Tetris.

>>385711348
DEPENDS ON WHAT GAME FUCKER

Why is everyone in such a fucking rush to put labels on shit that cannot be contested?

>>385711637
Well, some of the best games ever have a story, so it certainly doesn't take away from a game. Just look at the Ultima series.

>>385711348

Sound and music is far more important than story to me. Gameplay is King, Story is the court jester, Music and Sound is the Queen.

>right next to him
No queen is equal to a king, and shouldn't sit next to him unless he deems it so.
If anything her seat should be next to the jester.

Why is everyone so quick to say
>this one thing applies to every videogame ever made

this is guy is a fucking retard
>be poor with no real job
>have 2 kids

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>>385711348
I personally believe that Gameplay is to vidya as Prose is to literature. It exists to give a game flavor, creativity, and personality, and drives the narrative forward. Without good prose, you could tell the best story in the world, and it would be boring. It's bland, dry, and unpleasant. A game with no gameplay, in the same fashion, is incredibly bloring.

However, this all really depends on the game.

>>385711348
and in the words of patrice o'neal, a king makes a queen, but a queen can never make a king

>>385712129
Games have prose too you dumbass.

"Dark Souls has no story and also DaS2 is good game." - Joseph Anderson

Why does /v/ like this pleb?

>>385712217

Way to miss the point entirely you dumb idiot

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>fail as a writer
>start over-analyzing video games on youtube
>people parrot your opinions as if they were gospel

>>385712104
>>385711917
Because if you haven't noticed by now alot of people are in their way of thinking, and forums such as this and Reddit have a way of exposing that linear retardation.
Sheep and herder, and all that shit.

>>385712217
Yes, but Gameplay is the primary component which differentiates vidya from non-vidya. It's why Visual Novels are not games, but visual novels with gameplay are called Adventure games.

Take Gone Home, for example, it's a game with incredibly repetitive, bland, and uninteresting gameplay. It's not dynamic, it doesn't have any variety, it isn't creative or original, it's just walking around and picking stuff up--and that's not an oversimplification, that is all you do in that game.

>>385712230

/v/ is composed entirely of plebs, why does this surprise you?

>>385711684
You're right, I was appalled after finishing Super Mario 64 (the most important and greatest 3D platformer of all time) that the story was trash

>>385711970
>ultima series
>good story

how about you kill yourself

>>385711684
>>385711841
If the story is essential to the gameplay and its mechanics, then a bad story can bring down the game itself. ME3 had the best actual gameplay and mechanics in the series, but the story and its integration into the game was bad enough that it came to be seen by many as the worst entry (excluding Andromeda, which overall had an even worse story and sloppier gameplay and content).

No.

Level and world design is far more important than story due to the fact that the design and layout of worlds can adversely or positively affect game mechanics.

Sound design is on par with level and world design because that can also aide game mechanics by informing the user of timing or providing a sense of satisfaction from utilizing mechanics.

>>385712335
You can't do Gone Home in any other medium, it justifies itself as a game.

>>385712527
How is that relevant? The point is that Gone Home is an example of a game where it's gameplay actively works against its narrative by being bland and dry.

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>>385712302
>mfw he's getting even more desperate for money and will soon start shilling his generic fanfic-tier novels even harder

>>385712527
Fake documentary dramas already exist in film and television.

Literally just make it a girl walking around the home with a camera or a phone then narrating what she finds and you have the exact same experience.

>>385711741
Feel free to leave then, brainlet
>>385712381
SM64 doesn't have a story, so how can it be bad?

>>385712661
No you aren't the one actively putting together the pieces in a documentary, you're passively watching someone else do it for you .

Gameplay and graphics age like shit (unless they are simplistic as fuck) and get replaces by better versions in a few years

Atmosphere, story, characters, music, art design etc are eternal. No wonder why, they are taken from greater artforms

>>385711348
No, soundtrack is far more important than story.

>>385712727
>Brood War is simplistic as fuck
>Melee is simplistic as fuck
>Quake is simplistic as fuck

>>385711348
It completely depends on the genre. In RPGs, Adventure games and VNs story is critical to the game's success. In arcade, hack and slash, and puzzle games you barely need a story. Video games aren't so homogenous that bold sweeping statements like this one are applicable.

>>385712727
>leastintelligentpost.png

>>385712230
>>385712302
>>385712656
Which one of your favorite games did he BTFO?

>>385712807
>>385712824

Brainlets that can't refute it

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>>385712727

>>385712721
That's where pacing comes in. Mysteries have existed in literature forever. Are you really such a pleb that you think something as trite as Gone Home has never been done by anyone in history until videogames?

You just present it with limited information a little at a time and the viewer will begin to start formulating theories about what's happening. Finding the clues in a non-linear fashion is a standard for mysteries.

>>385712871
Explain what makes those almost 20 year old games simplistic as fuck

>>385712727
>Gameplay and graphics age like shit
Yes, Tetris and Pong play so poorly and are just an absolute eyesore.

>>385712104
>Why is everyone so quick to say
Because these statements are relevant to their identity, not anything else.

They need to make these big generic sweeping statements because they need to be memeber of a superior team. "I'm team GAMEPLAY FIRST and that makes me better than you!" is basically the kind of logic we are seeing here. Most people here don't have the faintest clue what they are really talking about. They don't care, either. It's about validation, superiority, tribalism.

>>385712314
Thats a overly simple way of putting but I wont fight you on it.

I'd say its just people being lazy and want someone to make points for them

>>385712104
>Why is everyone so quick to say
>>this one thing applies to every videogame ever made

Then what's the point of being a video game if you don't prioritize gameplay first?

>>385711348
Did he really say that? For me it feels he's more concerned with gameplay and how it feels.

>>385712905

I didn't call those games simplistic, I was talking about shit like Tetris, Pacman and OG Mario Bros, those games you listed aged like dickcheese and have been surpassed a dozen times by more modern titles

>>385711787
mario doesn't treat story as the queen, it treats it as the jester

>>385712898
How? Gone Home was thought-provoking on adolescence and some currently relevant progressive themes.

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>>385711868
when will this "Tetris is a good game" meme die

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>>385712913
>tfw this post is entirely accurate
why the fuck do i keep coming back to /v/?
you can have a better discussion about videogames on /r9k/ for fucks sake.

>>385712863
None. His analyses are just way too long. He did a couple of two-hour long videos on Fallout 4 for fucks sake

>>385713012
None of them have """aged""" nor been surpassed by anything in their genre and are almost two decades old, that's why I used them as examples.

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>>385713030

>>385713076
Name all Tetris' problems. Go ahead

>>385712863
none but he likes DaS2, Fallout 4 and Uncharted.

>>385713129
Funny pic but it's not an argument anon

Subtle clues in an empty house paint a more profound picture of its inhabitants than what other games manage to achieve through countless hours of on-screen development. I don't believe that it could be done in other medium.

>>385713030
If I wanted to rummage through garbage to learn about some gay kid, I'd do it at your house.

>>385711868
Now this is contrarian

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>>385713207

>>385713076
>>385713251
What are the flaws of Tetris?

>>385713207
You are correct, but most people on /v/ won't admit it.

>>385713078
I might be projecting, but some of the most gut busting laughs ever come from /v/ and that's really all anyone comes around for

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I would change story with atmosphere.
And gameplay with fun factor.
A game that has good mechanics may feel inferior to a less focused product, if the latter has a better overall feeling.
Platforming has been the same for the last 30 years, and the concept has been reiterated thousand of times, but some games just stand out because those games have a better handling, a better atmosphere, artstyle.
I can't provide examples because this is also subjective, it's impossible to decide which is the best game, so think of your favourite platformer(or any other genre) and think what makes it the best for you: it's the simple mechanic, or the overall quality of the product that makes you come back over and over again?

A game has to be first of all fun and immersive, otherwise it's just a generic blob.

>>385711348
The story just needs a goal, nothing more.
Even with RPGs, shit stories with great gameplay did well.

Chrono Trigger's story was shit and simple, but it was fun. Xcom story was shit and simple, but it was fun. Baldur's Gate 2 story was shit and simple, but it was fun. Star Ocean 2 story was shit and simple, but fun.

I honestly can't think of a game where story was that important. Like I said, as long as there's some kind of goal in mind, then it's whatever.

>>385713338
How do explain this thread then?

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>>385712527

>>385713207
You can achieve the same thing with a book.
Most writers don't bother because they are hacks.

>>385713378
>great gameplay
>Chrono Trigger
?

>>385711348
>Gameplay is king
>Leveldesign is queen
>Music and sounddesign are the servants
>The folk is graphics
>Jester/bard is story

>>385711348
No, gameplay is king, and story should stick to mediums story is great at.

story in games just does't work as well as in other media. Theoretically, it's the best, but in
practice, the effort that goes into making your choices matter just doesn't pay off.Then the story is broken up anyways because you need to put the gameplay somewhere, and they don't mesh together very well. You want a great story, read a book.

>>385713467
You're looking too much into it.
If you can't grasp the basic concept of how irrelevant a story can be, you should kys.

>>385711348
What about games that tell story through gameplay

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>come to thread expecting to see Fagseph Anderson getting roasted
>it's just people arguing about shit that's almost completely subjective

>>385713251
>>385713076
>>385711787
I can play tetris for years and never get bored of it
I've never felt the urge to replay a mario game that wasn't Super Mario 64

>>385713432
I think in a book this would be annoying exposition like the song of ice and fire books

>>385713001
Pretty much exactly like that.

I don't remember which video since I binged his videos in one sitting.

>>385713630
/v/ loathes movie games so I don't know why you would bring that up

>>385713378
>RPG's
>great gameplay

If you like mashing the x button then sure.

>>385713689
It wasn't annoying in TCITR because it was the entire point of the book.
Of course it wouldn't work in high fantasy. That stuff is pure shite anyway.

>>385713781
d..dark souls is an rpg

>>385711348
People trying to divide various game elements from one another as if they exist in separate vacuums are retarded, especially those who try to arbitrarily put gameplay and story into 2 neat categories.
Story can give structure and justification to gameplay and a bad story can negatively offset the experience of pretty decent gameplay and vice versa. Meanwhile gameplay is itself a story element by way of the rules and mechanics it sets up and that the player follows and how the story is delivered and dealt with by the gameplay can ruin a decent story and vice versa. You can sometimes remove most of the story or most of the gameplay and still have a game but one still has to support the other for it to not suck.
Unless King and Queen metaphor is supposed to imply close cooperation as opposed to a list of priorities I don't agree with him.

>>385713875
Action RPG's don't count, I'm talking about dull weeb tier RPGs that involve mashing the x button until the next glorified FMV cutscene kicks in.

>>385713746
Movie games would be the opposite of a game that tells story though gameplay. Unless you consider cutscenes gameplay.

>>385713414
Thinking about it this is weirdly accurate.

>3 endings
actually it doe more than Gone Homo

>>385712727
In other words; all the millions and billions spent making and playing really pretty games is a wasted effort because they're just going to be pretty pieces of shit with nothing fun about them to pull you along and gawk at the rest?

ok

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>>385711348
This kid is fine as a basic entertainer for certain games. But as someone when he makes an actual video game that is incredibly fun to play, I'll stick with pic related.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good story like Silent Hill 2 or RDR, but video games are meant to be video games. Visual novel-fags, Witcher-fags, and other shit-taste fags need to sit the fuck down

>>385714593
That's pigeonholing what video games can be. You yourself just mentioned SH2 and RDR as positives you dolt.

>>385711348
I used to tolerate this faggot, but he fell so hard for the experience meme it's hard to watch his videos now.

>>385714696
No you don't understand John Carmack said it. It must be true, stories in video games are for fags. Case closed.

>>385714696
Yes, but on the whole, story don't make any bit of a difference when the overall game is shit. I'd probably agree with >>385713538, desu

>>385714719
What is the experience meme?

>>385714593
I'm fine with a game having zero / minimal story ala Doom 3, but the gameplay needs to be top-notch for that to be excusable.

D3 had a beyond shitty story that made the average Star Trek episode look like the work of Shakespear on top of having really mediocre gameplay

I have never read a book or watched the movie for the story alone.
Story is an integral part of most media and should not be judged alone.

>>385714845
I can dig on that, but rather then putting them into tiers I'd stress how much a story, even a minor one, can add to the game. Devil May Cry 3, the stylish action game classic, gains quite a lot by having its villain seek power for the sake of protecting the people he cares about, the motivation being the death of his mother. The game is still immensely enjoyable without it, but it loses something if you take that element away.

So in summation: It depends. In Doom, it's there and humorous, non-intrusive.

>>385714883
>it's more than a game, it's an experience
>you can't really judge these "games", they have intangible qualities that touch the audience on a personal level
>it's OK if a game doesn't have gameplay at all or if it's shit
>"you just don't get it" is now a valid point

>>385711348
Not at all.

There are tons of great games with no or shit story.

>>385715193
So EYE, STALKER, Deus Ex, DaS, and other /v/ memes?

>>385715313
All of those have solid gameplay

"it's an experience!" mantra is usually only used when trying to describe walking simulators because they're shitty games at their core

>>385715313
>/v/ memes
Just kill yourself you stupid nigger

>>385715193
First two points are 100% valid.
Second two points are literally projections of your insecurities or strawmen.
Fuck off, kid. You are the fucking meme retard here.

>>385711348
I hate that metaphor. It's completely undescriptive beyond just saying gameplay > story > everything else.
It is a narrowminded view of games too.

>>385711348
It depends. Everyone has a different definition of story it seems. It's important to consider that paintings and photos "tell stories". And why imagine story as only a line? Sometimes the story isn't a case of "this = that", but a case of an appearance being really mysterious and promising (a story-space, or possibility). This is what the storytelling in Dark Souls is like, a swath of really interesting fragments that partially constitute a lost world and the events that befell them. Conventional story-lines are great too, don't get me wrong, but storytelling is a part of being human and getting appearances to mean more than any other animal can. If anything, it's this more open and suggestive sense of storytelling that's more essential, since it encompasses the aesthetic of the game (beauty is a kind of storytelling, too). I'd say that the games mechanics (gameplay) wouldn't have much meaning if everything was just polygons and bad colours.

>>385711841
Let me guess, nintendo guy?

>>385711348
No.

Cute factor > Story > Gameplay

>>385711348

Sound design is queen.

People underrate it so fucking much. This is everything sound related, music to sound effects and everything in between.

Story is that guy that plays a big part sometimes but other times he's buttfuckingly useless. Graphics are the guy that looks good but doesn't fucking do anything.

>>385711348
This guy is such an idiot. You have to be one seriously gullible teenager to believe that anything he says is smart or worth listening to.

>>385711348
why should i listen to a failed writer relying on e-begging to support his family?

>Fail at writing novels
>Review video games
Just proves that the standard of game "journalism" is horrible.

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Gameplay > Story that is told trough gameplay > Story

You can't refute this. This is important in all mediums. If you want to tell a story in medium X, make fucking sure there is a point to it by using the unique aspects in that medium to tell it. If you aren't doing it, why even bother using that medium?

>>385711787
I am real fucking sick of the meme that tetris is the perfect game, as if no other puzzle game (let alone developed by tetris's developer) holds a candle.
also >>385711917, genre is a big factor to what aspects matter.

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>>385711348
Nope Sound is. Then visuals and style, THEN story.

>>385713076
When I get tired of playing it.

>>385712972
Because varying degrees of interactiveness can exist.

There doesn't need to be just purely non-interactive movies and just purely gameplay works. There's no reason to not consider that a spectrum.

>>385711348
A game is a sum of it's parts, but the more parts you have, the greater the chance that one part will detract from others. Gameplay is not necessarily king. The net effect of my interacting with the game however must be good. It should be theoretically possible to make a game with horrible gameplay but fantastic everything else that is enjoyable, but I can't say I've ever played any of them.
Gameplay is the most important, but you can probably prop up less than stellar gameplay with other shit.

>>385716736
Because uniqueness isn't actually in any way related to efficiency, you god damn drooling mongoloid? You use what ever tools fit the particular narrative and the particular medium.

Just because that particular aspect is not used in other media does not mean that particular aspect matters somehow more, or is somehow going to enhance the story more than anything.

You can make a movie which relies on music more than anything.
You can make a song that relies on lyrics more than anything.
You can make a book that relies on visual imagery more than anything.

All of that has been done, and has creates some of the most powerful works of their respective media.

You are a retard because you still think uniqueness is the point. No, it's not. As much as this triggers you faggots: only the end experience is. Games don't exist to validate the medium's existence, or it's uniqueness.

>>385717627
But in all of those cases, choosing a different medium would have made the end product better so why waste it on a medium that handles that stuff worse?

>>385717984
No, it would not you fucking mongoloid, that is the fucking point.

>>385718103
But it would. Just look at every "movie" game.
For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gdtIngq8Tg
It fucking sucks and you know it. If this game would have been straight up movie from the get-go, it would have come out better. Now it's just garbage as a movie AND as a game.

>>385712230
I've actually discussed this with him and he's not 100% on that. I've argued before that Dark Souls story is the digging into the lore and environmental details and dredging up information from dialog.

In the traditional sense of storytelling, the one the human race has perfected over a long process going back a good 70,000 years or more, he's right, the games have no story. But I don't think that's a fair standard for video games, which don't have to rely on traditional methods to tell a story.

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>>385711348
What did he mean by this?

>>385711348
I don't know, his voice is so boring I fell asleep half way through the analogy
It's like the Times New Roman of accents

>>385711348
I think you need both to make a great game but I would rather play a game with good gameplay and shit story than a game with bad gameplay and great story

>>385718292
Yeah... because you are literally so fucking retarded that you can't even figure out a different example than what amounts of fundamentally fucking hollywood trash?
You are pathetic.

Silent Hill 2 or Homeworld would not work better as movies. Yet they are entirely narrative-focused and take virtually no advantage of the actual mechanical nature of videogames as part of that narrative.

Shuna's Journey would not work better as a movie, despite the fact that it is a book relying almost purely on visual, and almost none on textual narrativity.

Illias and Odyssey would not work better as a book (they are - in case you did not know and you probably did not - songs), despite the fact that they are little more than just a dull rythmic narration and take little advantage of melody or rythm.
Tarkovsky's Solaris would not actually work better as a theatrical play, despite it taking virtually no advantage of motion and cut.

And we could go on. You are absolute retard. Seriously: if you can't even think of a better example of a story-focused game than FUCKING UNCHARTED, then you should keep your mouth fucking shut: you know FUCK ALL about the industry and the problem. You are retarded and ignorant. Fuck off.

>>385718615
I only took Uncharted as an example because the story it tells is literally an action movie. And it doesn't work well as a game.

All the games that I think have good stories do one way or another take advantage of this medium so that's why I haven't given you any examples.

As for the examples you just gave, I disagree. Either they do have mechanics that improve the overall experience(Silent Hill) or would otherwise work better in different mediums.

Why so angry though? You know you can have healthy discussion on /v/, even if it rare.

>>385718935
>>385718615
I AM SILLY

>>385711787
>Mario
>story

>>385711787
But those are 2 games without stories.

>>385711348
just a step away from a food analogy, c'mon /v/ you dont seriously listen to people critique video games do you?

>>385713076
It's truly the epitome of the hipster and contrarian poster on /v/. It doesn't hold up to new puzzle games graphically or in terms of fun, but since it's old and it's contrarian to like older games, like that cool ass 90s kids bullshit, they try to one up those faggots by saying an even older game, like tetris, is a perfect example of a fun game.

>>385718615
A lot of those are bad examples. Silent Hill 2 actually does use player action to modify the narrative's drive. If you only played through it once and didn't ever read discussion about it you might not know it but it's there. Homeworld ties its idea of a group of refugees struggling to survive on a desperate crusade for revenge to the mechanics by making the game hard in ways that are consistent with that narrative.

The Illiad and the Odyssey aren't songs. They're epic poems. They were written in rhyming dactylic hexameter for easy memorization and recitation. Given that the Odyssey, alone, is over 12,000 lines long (and it's the shorter of the two, and Homer's contributions to the Trojan cycle are far from the longest epics) the use of mnemonics makes solid sense. The cadence, melody, and rhythm, only work in the original Ionic Greek in which they were written. Even other dialects of Greek contemporary to its time end up mangling the rhyme scheme at least a little bit, and good translations into modern English are almost strictly spiritual rather than literal. This problem was one observed in detail by Dante Alighieri and it moved him to plead in an introduction to his Comedia to please not try to translate it out of its native Florentine Italian because it wouldn't work. He was right, it's impossible to reproduce the original overlapping rhyme scheme in any other language.

As for Solaris - have you ever actually watched the movie? What you've said sounds like something culled from reading essays on it, not from actually watching it. There's at least a couple scenes that are as cinematic as cinema gets.

>>385718935
>or would otherwise work better in different mediums.
This simply is not true. There is a world of difference between AMC's TWD, and Telltale's TWD. Namely because of the fact that the player themselves are responsible for the character's actions, and reactions, in the game. This is ultimately what sets apart vidya from every other medium, and it is an invaluable fundamental that can make telling stories far more personal than simply watching an LP of Telltale's TWD, or watching Naked Snake pull the trigger on The Boss. Or watching Wander take on colossi. Hell, even in Uncharted. The simple act of QTEs involves people in a way a film simply does not. Why do you think the Uncharted games are as successful as they are (aside from 4 which I hear has damn good gameplay).

>>385720029
All of those things you listed are exactly why those games NEED to be games to work. And that's a good thing.

Except for the QTEs, they really are the lowest of the low interaction you can have in the game. I get what you mean but they just don't improve the "story" in any meaningful way to me.

>>385720204
>Except for the QTEs, they really are the lowest of the low interaction you can have in the game. I get what you mean but they just don't improve the "story" in any meaningful way to me.
Agreed. The exception being MGS3. I don't think there's a game out there with a moment like killing The Boss.

>>385711348
Story is the low hanging fruit for video game pseudo intellectuals because it is one of the easiest things to understand and is a comfort zone for them.

Video games are an interactive visual medium so art design then sound design should come next. It doesnt matter how much text you have if the audience doesnt like the composition they are looking at. But how do you expect a youtuber to understand what makes a good color pallette or how the character design invokes feelings in the observer. You cant the same way that most youtubwrs wont touch fighting games because they are about high visual and mechanical stimulus. Games that last and pass the test of time on those alone.

Its much easier to pretend like your game is intellectually stimulating when you view it through the narrow scope of story.

>>385718935
>As for the examples you just gave, I disagree.
I don't give a fuck, you are wrong, and clueless.

>Why so angry though?
Because I'm tired of fuckers going around drooling their spitefull bullshit around propagating mindlessly the same old half-or-less truisms that then end up holding not only this, but all fucking media back.
Just because SHITSTAINS like you can't fuck shut their mouth and must share their idiotic parroted opinions with everyone, regardless how little education or experience or actual capacity to think they have.
It's annoying. Why the fuck are you people even talking about this shit? What in earth's name ever gave you the impression that what ever you think about this subject has ANY value what so ever in the first place?

>>385711684
Sorta right. Peole hate FE Conquest for having a terrible story yet it has some of the best gameplay in the series.

>>385711348
No. Poor story will never detract from a game with great gameplay. However poor gameplay will utterly ruin a game with a great story.

What's with the shill for this guy recently?

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Gameplay > Music and sound design = Visual design and aesthetic > Story

Gameplay is King, Story is the Jester.

>>385719624
>Silent Hill 2 actually does use player action to modify the narrative's drive.
Yes, incredibly poorly, in fact it's actually the weakest element of the actual narrative.
It has nothing to do with what makes SH2 so damn great.

>The Illiad and the Odyssey aren't songs. They're epic poems.
Yes, these highly rythmic pieces of text that alter in melody and rythem and are composed to be sang in front of audiences accompanied by musical instruments are not songs, because thousand years after they were composed some people transcribed them into text and then translated them and many of the musical elements of them were lost in the process. Totally: the original musical qualities and musical company are not songs though. Also, apparently, "Singer of fucking Tales" never came.

>There's at least a couple scenes that are as cinematic as cinema gets.
Yes, couple of scenes in nearly three hour movie that is INTENTIONALLY AND SPECIFICALLY tailored in the fashion of theatrical play absolute majority of the time.

Also, want other examples: Fucking Marat-Sade or fucking Faust for Christ Sake.

The point here fucking being that either a work is good, or bad. "Uniqueness" of particularly pronounced element of it to a particular medium is absolutely fucking irrelevant.

>>385711348
>Reddit mattewmatosis
Fuck off

A good story can save an otherwise bad game and good game play can save a bad story

>>385711348
Anyone read his books?
How are they?
Give me a review

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>>385722542
t: I listen to songs because the lyrics really make me think

>>385712104
>>385712314
Every game has different need. How hard is this to fucking to understand?

>>385722912
What is even the point of posts like these?

Hahah, "really makes me think" meme, us guys, we know what we are talking about, we know these words, nudge nudge, wink wink?
The fuck?
Is this basically just automatic typing?

Absolutely not, unless you want to be silly and define any sort of context or non abstract representations of game elements as a story. I don't see how you can even make the argument when we've had entire genres thriving with only the most barebone stories.

>>385711348
New vegas, Silent hill 2, mass effect, dead rising 1 and 2
I could go on
All games benefit from a good story that fits the game
A good story doesn't make the game bad, but a good story doesn't hurt it, it makes it better

Silent hill 2 is still talked about and without that story, people wouldn't, just like new vegas
All these people acting like the story doesn't matter in games are retards trying to fit in

>>385718406
He's not wrong. CS:GO, LOL, and OW are the perfect definition of Redditor games in the sense that if you try to criticize anything baout them you'll be flooded with "Hurf Durf not X rank/PRO MLG!" Remember, on Reddit rank is more important than actual, factual criticisms or skill

>>385718935
>or would otherwise work better in different mediums.
That doesn't make any sense
Any story can work in any other fucking medium, so what's your point?
A story makes the game memorable, a well-written world and lore can add to the game and make it immersive
Go fuck yourself basically

Also uncharted 4 is one of the best TPS ever made
It doesn't suck because it has a story, which is what you're implying

>>385723254
That applies to every game element though, singling out story as if its more special than say music is the problem here.

>>385717984
>>385718292
>one of the most popular series out there
>always sell incredibly well
>uncharted 4 one of the best selling games on PS4

Yea dude, nobody cares about this "garbage" at all and everyone is asking Sony to make it a movie, not a game right?
You fucking moron

>>385723528
>is the problem here
Yes it's so problematic that different kinds of games exist

>>385723784
Give it a rest you fag, never said anything even remotely close to that

>>385722912
You don't listen to certain songs for their lyrics?

>>385724195
No of course not thats pretty silly

>>385724390
You're even sillier, friendo.

>>385712913
upvote for pure truth

>>385713163
>>385713291
>>385713641
>>385717267
>>385719205
It's fucking boring and no wonder autistic spergs find it appealing

>>385723476
>Any story can work in any other fucking medium, so what's your point?
It literally can't. Just look at MGS2, Nier, Nier:Automata, Undertale, Spec Ops:The Line and so on.
>but those games suck
Whatever. My point was that the way they tell the story is dependent on this medium.

>>385724456
Song lyrics are cringy as fuck

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>>385724195
No, why would I do that. If the song doesn't sound good, why even bother? Good lyrics are a plus but eh, 99% the time I don't care about them

>>385724756
That's a blanket statement that of course couldn't possibly be true for the millions and millions of songs in existence. Silly ass.

>>385724710
Calling it boring isnt pointing out a flaw its just telling us that you were bored when playing it which can be the result of just about anything including your shit tastes

>>385711868
>>385711637
>>385713641
>>385713076
>>385717267
>>385713291
>>385713163

Yes we've all seen the Matthewmatosis video where he explains how Tetris has no technical flaws. Given how barebones and simplistic the game actually is, if thats all it takes to be your favorite game then you have god awful taste centered entirely around

Cus here's the facts: You don't enjoy tetris anymore. I know you shouldn't assume for others but I am 100% positive people who make these kinds of posts do NOT actually enjoy playing Tetris anymore because it is nothing but busywork with no payoff after you'd already played it for 10 minutes. You've all just watched that matthewmatosis video and think since you can tell people Tetris "Has no flaws" that its the best game ever and somehow better than other games someone else likes.

Its so pathetic and childish and I know at least one person is going to reply saying something along the lines of "So you CAN'T name any flaws in tetris, then?" You're not clever. You're not funny. Everyone knows you don't actually play and enjoy tetris because you're not a small child satisfied by simple, unrewarding busywork.

>>385724849
Honestly, curious. What do you consider good song lyrics?

>>385724842
>If the song doesn't sound good
What is even your yardstick for how good a song sounds?

>>385722983
Yeahh but story should never be as important or at the same level as the gameplay. This doesn't mean games can't be story heavy, but as Miyamoto said "There's a lot of different media focused on story or more oriented on telling a story. In videogames, where interaction and player expression are possible, making the focus not play a game is a great mistake".

A game can have no story (tetris), use the story as an excuse for the gameplay (mario/zelda) or have heavy story and lore complementing or being told through gameplay (souls games/ MGS).

The thing is, if the focus of the game is making the player drop the controller and listen/watch some cutsceme or text, that experience offers nothing new to them, and they'll forget about it some timw later.
Nobody talks about games like Uncharted, Until dawn or Gone home unless a new game or trailer is shown, yet we still see VtmB, Dark Messiah or Ghotic threads nowdays. And all those games had stories to tell.

>>385724889
BTFO

>>385724930
>listen to song
>did I think it sounds good?
>if yes, then it sounds good
>if no, then it doesn't sound good
Lyrics have no bearing on how the song actually sounds. Lyrics bring meaning to the words being sung but that doesn't dictate the sound.

Of course different languages offer different sounding singing so there are some preferences in the language being sung. But other than that, lyrics have no bearing on how good the song sounds.

>>385722378
made an e-beggar video recently about how he needs your hard earned money so he can support his family since he isnt a real man. in return you get shitty analysis of games for 2-3 hours you've already played.

>>385724916
A mix of imagery and not. Songs that allow the listener to fill in the visualizations themselves while still containing concrete subject matter. Generally I have found these are the bulk of my favorite songs that have lyrics.

"Remember her hair as it shone in the sun,
The smell of the bed when I knew what she'd done.
Tell yourself over and over you won't ever need her again.

But don't fool yourself,
She was heartache from the moment that you met her."

>>385725078
>if no, then it doesn't sound good
But what if you were simply exposed to something new and unknown to you so you recoil as a reflex to retreat to what you find comfortable?

>>385711348
fuck no. if i gave a shit about story i wouldn't be playing a video game, i'd be reading a book. you can have garbage tier story or no story at all and still have a godlike game

>>385725223
>But what if you were simply exposed to something new and unknown to you so you recoil as a reflex to retreat to what you find comfortable?
I find your question odd because I'm hardly that kind of person who disregards something immediately when it is something that I simply have no experience of. I'd listen to it, maybe even multiple times and then tell my opinion. How else do you find preferences in anything?

>>385724889
I do though, tgm is a lot of fun and mp tetris is one of the go to games for when I want to play with friends. Its not unrewarding busywork, theres very clear skill progression and its genuinely satisfying to watch yourself become better and more consistent. You on the other hand know fuck all about the thing youre "criticizing", otherwise you wouldnt even need to make these stupid assumptions because what those anons and matthewmatosis said is blatantly untrue. The randomizer has improved to allow more consistent strategic play for example. Many versions of Tetris like the DS one are casualized as fuck too.

>>385725078
>I decide if a song is good based on that if I find it good.
>Which clearly proves that lyrics have no baring on quality of music.

You people should really not be even alive at this point. There is no excuse for this level of stupidity. There really, really isn't. Do you fucking not even read what you are saying?!

>>385725223
Do you read poems? I'd think that's a good alternative medium to songs for people who like lyrics in them.

I have some friends who do listen to lyrics but whenever I ask if they are interested in poems, they say no without really explaining why not.

>>385725437
Oh fuck you got me for having an subjective opinion in music as a medium!

If you find lyrics to be "meaningful" or offer "quality" in music, more power to you. I only care about the SOUND of the song. Lyrics offer nothing to the sound of it. The singers voice, language it is sung and words that are pronounced? Sure, they dictate how the song sounds. But lyrics, the meaning behind the lyrics or the "story" they tell mean nothing to the sound of the music.

>>385725357
>I'm hardly that kind of person who disregards something immediately when it is something that I simply have no experience of. I'd listen to it, maybe even multiple times and then tell my opinion. How else do you find preferences in anything?
I suppose I just find it strange that people can dislike songs at all. It's very rare that I dislike a song myself, so I wanted to know someone else's thought process as to how they dislike a song.

>>385725445
The aural stimulation is why I do not read poems regularly. I have a few poets on Poetry Foundation bookmarked, but once you get a taste of what poetry and music can make together,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbYgxeuZPmw
It's hard to just read poetry.

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>>385711348
>I'm just going to make a 2 hour video of my opinion about a single video game that I can easily deliver in a 10 minute

Good games have either one or the other, but the absolute best games have both.

>>385713012
How the fuck do games like Tetris, Pacman and Mario Bros age if almost every modern person can still go into those games without any problem?

>>385724756
>/v/ is so contrarian they're against SONGS HAVING LYRICS

>>385725812
Not really, Doom has practically no story. In general there are far more great games with close to no story than there are great games with little or bad gameplay.

>>385724889
>all this projecting
>still can't name a flaw

>>385725719
I've used this example before on /mu/, but one of the most amazing marriages of music and lyrics is this song by June Of 44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX2CmkdTIgE
Such a harrowing, dark piece of rock music that is made darker by the subject matter and Jeff Mueller's delivery of them.

>>385725630
>Oh fuck you got me for having an subjective opinion in music as a medium!
Yes, actually. FUCK YOU.
Nobody give two fucks about your subjective opinions, especially if they are (by your subjective nature) retarded as fuck.
They are less then worthless, they are actually an obnoxious noise that you bother others with. So stuff those subjective opinions up your fucking ass and don't bother people actually having a discussion.

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>>385726309
>having objective opinions for any medium
Anon, you might the retarded one here

>>385725975

If it had no flaws, you'd be playing it right now instead of shitposting on /v/. Apparently you think Tetris is too boring to be playing it right now.

>>385726410
Actually, I have managed to figure out there is more to judgement and epistemology than fucking Albert game.
Learn what the fuck "normative judgement" is you retard. And until then, fuck off.

>>385712302

who is this semen demon?

>>385726472
That's right. Your favourite game is also shit because you're not playing it this very moment.

>>385726581
Wew. Really? I'm not trying to give you shit, but I think I had one of those realizations where people younger than myself are browsing this website.

>>385726505
I have no normative statements regarding music industry though. I still find music that I like and the people are free to listen to what I desire. There is no state that is more desirable than another.

I don't know why you try to be on a high horse regarding some particular medium. Like holy fuck you come out as an autistic.

>>385711348
Games should be about white people and white culture I hate SJW trash posters like yourself

>>385726680

well I'm 26, but i just don't know who she is. not sure it has to do with age - just don't know what show she was on

Story is more like a court jester. It's presence can make things more fun but it's not necessary. Tons of games get by fantastically without any story/shitty story. No game gets by with no gameplay.

>>385726636
My favorite game sure as hell isn't flawless. You're the one who's trying to say "Tetris has no flaws, therefore it's good" when in reality quality and amount of flaws is only loosely correlated.

>>385726752
Oh. Anyway, her name is Chyler Leigh. That still is from Not Another Teen Movie, a classic parody film.

I'll agree with anything you say Joseph, need a cockwash?

>>385726823

ok cool, thanks man

>>385726472
>If it had no flaws, you'd be playing it right now instead of shitposting on /v/.
That is a fallacy.
So let's fucking get the real problem out here:
It's not the claim that Tetris is flawless that is stupid.
It's the assumption that this "flawlessness" is the same as being meaningfully engaging, or inherently valuable.
Yes: Tetris IS actually incredibly elegant in it's design. It's hard to find a flaw with it's design - it can't bear any subtractions, and would not actually necessarily benefit from any addition.

But that just does not mean that it's better than more flawed and less elegant, but inherently more meaningful or engaging games. It's like claiming that perfect geometrical shapes are inherently more valuable or meaningful than figurative paintings - that a perfect rythm is inherently more valuable than flawed, personal confession of Nina Simons.

People misatribute elegance for relevance. And that really can also be stated about just about every other stupid claim made in this thread, including the whole "if it's not doing it through something unique to games, it's crap" idea, or this idiots >>385726737 opinions.

People desperately struggle with the concept of relevance.

>>385726472
I could be playing Tetris right now while waiting for you to reply.

>>385726737
>I don't know why you try to be on a high horse regarding some particular medium. Like holy fuck you come out as an autistic.
You fucking mongoloid. Go back and read what the fuck you have been arguing about this whole thread.
If you have no normative judgements to make, then don't make judgements. It's that easy. Your shitty shield of relativism is not actually interesting to anyone. If you can't make a convincing argument, if you can't make a point why what you are saying should ever be worth listening to: then don't fucking say it. It's probably not worth listenting to.

>>385726761
The point is that it's a stupid argument to use, just because you're not playing something in this very moment doesn't mean it's not great. I wasn't saying that though, I just expect you to actually demonstrate your point far better than that.

>>385711348
Music is the queen, story is the jester trying to tell a cockamamie tale.

>>385727036
And yet here you are listening to my subjective opinion and getting mad over it. Sasuga /v/, you never fail to impress me with your autism.

>>385726909
That is exactly what my point was, mate. Tetris only has a singular flaw -- a vast majority of people who play video games think it's boring and will only play it when they have nothing better to do. It's difficult to point out exactly why they think it's boring, but that doesn't mean it's not a flaw.

Either way, comparing games by naively counting the number of flaws instead of the severity of them is the mistake that leads to Tetris being put on "top 100 games of all time" lists.

>>385711348
Gameplay is fucking gay an only of importance to the vapid shooterfags. Story is the only thing that really matters.

He has never said this. Even if he had, he's fundamentally wrong considering some of the best games ever made have little to no story and every game that tends to be completely story driven is boring trash.

He'd have a point if we were talking about story and cinematography in movies or something.

>>385727054
>The point is that it's a stupid argument to use, just because you're not playing something in this very moment doesn't mean it's not great.

Who are you quoting. The retarded anon I replied to implied Tetris has no flaws by asking the other anon to point one out. It, by definition, has flaws in that it doesn't hold a player's constant interest over other activities. It could be the best fucking game in the world and it would have flaws.

>>385726909
>It's not the claim that Tetris is flawless that is stupid.
That claim is stupid as well. Anyone who actually played more than a couple of versions of Tetris should know, the series has seen many different mechanical improvements that have made it deeper, more exciting, more consistent and just a better game overall. What people really talk about is the basic concept of Tetris. But there's far more than games than that. Just as fighting games are more than what you can gather from looking at a screenshot, so is Tetris.

>>385727196
I'm here for discussion. Fucks like you ruin that kind of discussion, by jumpining in, screaming for attention by insulting and pestering others, and when those others do what they would assume is what people should be doing here - try to discuss you - you eventually reveal that "everything is subjective, you are all stupid and autistic for actually caring about who is right or shit like that" bullshit: wasting our time. You are the problem.

If you don't have anything but your subjective opinions to share - not only that you probably should not be sharing them: you should actually be listening to those who are less retarded and ignorant than you are. Instead of pestering them, wasting their time, and eventually screaming something about autism when you run out of any further arguments.

>>385727481
> you should actually be listening to those who are less retarded and ignorant than you are
So you are saying I should start to listen to songs strictly for lyrics, even though I get less enjoyment out of them? What backwards kind of logic is that?

>>385727360
>It, by definition, has flaws in that it doesn't hold a player's constant interest over other activities
Absolute nonsense. As the anon above wrote, something being flawless does not guarantee it's as engaging and fun as possible. In fact it can be the opposite, flaws can make games more fun (ever tried the HnK fighting game?). Even more silly considering that Tetris is designed to be played in short bursts to begin with.

Good stories are found in books and movies.
Failed film school grads with their rejected ideas for a film start seeping into the gaming industry because it's accessible. Now they try to elevate the medium for their own validation by making games with bloated cutscenes and minimal input revolving around their middle brow written plot. Then you have pseudo-intellectual manchildren who don't read books or watch movies so they end up defending muh story for the sake of their own limited intelligence. Games are meant to be played for fun, not to be sitting through it watching an hour long cutscene like a fucking jackass.

>>385727431
>played more than a couple of versions of Tetris should know, the series has seen many different mechanical improvements that have made it deeper, more exciting, more consistent and just a better game overall.
Actually, anyone who played multiple versions has already discovered that every single one of these alterations come with trade-offs: they make something better, but at the expense of something else. They don't INHERENTLY improve the formula, they might make it more suited for particular taste (but less for others), they might increase how engaging it is, but decrease longevity or fairness etc...

If you knew the damn video that was referenced at the beggining of the discussion, you'd know the gist of this argument.

What people REALLY talk about is that people - mostly influenced by particular opinion, consistently mistake elegancy for relevance, and making misguided arguments like "Tetris is the most elegant game we can think off, which makes it the best game ever, and it has no story, therefor games don't need stories, therefor TEAM GAMEPLAY SCORES AN EGO-POINT!"

In reality, tetris isn't really relevant to the subject of this discussion, honestly. The only reason why people consider it relevant to the whole absurd, artificial and nonsensical "gameplay vs. story" bullshit is precisely because they inflate it's value based on the elegance of it's core systems.

>>385727593
How old are you? 12? 13?
You clearly don't have even remotely what it takes to actually engage in discussions with strangers. There is a reason why there is an age restriction on this site.

>>385727296
Then go read a book you faggot.

>>385727671
> As the anon above wrote, something being flawless does not guarantee it's as engaging and fun as possible

That's what a flaw is, you idiot. "Not being fun" is a flaw! Games can be fun in spite of flaws, but "not being fun" is a flaw in an of itself. You may not be able to point out, specifically, why the game is not fun enough to hold your attention over other things you could be doing, but that does not mean that the flaw does not exist.

I don't see what's so fucking controversial about the statement "nothing is perfect". There are an infinite number of changes a developer could make to Tetris. You're telling me that not a single change would improve the game. Not even the tiniest one in the tiniest way.

>>385727885
Nice argument. I'd appreciate if you answered my question. That's how discussion works.

>>385728072
That's far too vague and subjective, it makes the entire word useless for communication. Fun is influenced by such a huge number of factors, many of which exist outside of the games, that you can't reasonably say that you not having fun with something makes it flawed unless you can describe it.

>>385711348
A story in a game should be as vague (like Dark Souls or Hotline Miami) or as basic as possible (Dooms "you kill demons because they're bad" comes to mind)

Game stories are almost consistently shit because they have to bend over backwards to accommodate gameplay, and seeing as you shouldn't remove gameplay, it'd be much better to strip the story down to its basics so it doesn't get in the way. That way the story at least makes sense. Not like GTA4 where the character is looking to get away from all the killing because he' grown sick of bloodshed -- right up until the cutscene ends and the player starts mowing down civilians.

>>385711348
Joseph Anderson is a reddit tier hack. Kill yourself for shilling that faggot OP

>>385724889
Nigga I play tetris versus games all the fucking time
fuck outta here

>>385727819
I suppose if you're considering things like accessibility. Otherwise I fail to see the downsides to pre-rotation and wall kicking for example, they make the game deeper and more engaging overall. You're not wrong but you're also talking about Tetris as if it's some irrelevant, obscure cult classic. It was a massively successful game that was an obsession for years, and inspired games that are widely played to this day. It's one of the best examples of games working great while being completely abstract outside of traditional games.

>>385728787
>That's far too vague and subjective, it makes the entire word useless for communication.

How does stating the empirically true statement "everything is flawed" make discussion worthless? You can still point out specific flaws, you can still argue about the magnitude of those flaws. It only shuts down idiots who claim something is flawless.

>that you can't reasonably say that you not having fun with something makes it flawed unless you can describe it.

That's like saying gravity doesn't exist if you can't explain why the apple falls down. As I said in the previous post, there are an infinite number of ways to change a game. At least one of these changes will improve the game (from an individual's perspective). The fact that this change wasn't made is a flaw (from that individual's perspective). The individual does not need to figure out exactly what that change is for this statement to be true. He may need to point out what that change is to be taken seriously in an argument (he can't just say "this game is bad because it has flaws", after all), but performing poorly in a debate does not mean his statement is false.

>>385724889
>Tetris
>Not a great game

I bet you prefer Pac-man, you tasteless faggot.

>>385729201
Woah doctor Brennan I'm sorry but you suck a truckload full of dicks.

>>385730168
Tetris is fun only as a novelty for a few minutes. It's boring as fuck and has no actual objective or end. There's no reason to play it.

>>385716756
It's the best game in existence because matthewmatosis said so, newfag.
Get to know who to parrot if you're gonna survive around here.

>>385730542
Most early versions have a kill screen, TGM has an ending and ranks. Also what happened to playing games for fun and to become better instead of playing for endings, cheevos or some other shitty carrot on a stick?

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>>385711348
Is he the best YouTuber?

>>385724889
100% correct

>>385730943
Tetris is not fun.

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>>385711348
>He knows about Todd posting
Why is he so good guys?

>>385731204
t. someone who hasn't tried harder modes/versions or multiplayer

>>385731326
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
HE SHILLS ON THIS BOARD ALL THE TIME

I think Undertale changed the gaming landscape for years to come. Story and well written characters can carry a game out of mediocrity. "Gameplay" is something only losers talk about to try and sound hardcore like some kind of philistine nerd cult.

>>385731353
>no true tetris

>>385731396
>He thinks shilling is real

>>385731467
>Maymey

>>385731481
As is often the case, the mechanics really shine when you bump up the difficulty. If youre playing on the lower difficulties of course it's brainless busy work, any game will be.

>>385731467
Yes one example of story carrying a game makes thousands of examples of gameplay carrying games worthless

>>385712913
>Angry people will spout Reddit memes to try and invalidate your opinions
Why is /v/ so shit

>>385712768
My nigga is here

>>385717446
Make an interactive movie then.
Gameplay always comes first, everything else on the """spectrum""" just means its more suitable for a different medium altogether.

You fags arguing against gameplay seem to pretend that a) stories in games aren't b-movie tier at best, and b) story telling is something people actually "play" games for.

Both are wrong. And when a medium cannot come up with decent stories and/or ways to tell them, then they might as well focus on what it does best.
Your whole point is a hypothetical one. Because there are no games who do it right and good. The more a game focuses on story, the more it becomes a joke.

>>385711348
In the context of the game he was talking about, yes. Games like Rise of the Tomb Raider are putting a huge emphasis on their story both in marketing and in the time devoted to cutscenes or other story moments within the game. Yet they are still not putting a whole lot of effort into crafting stories that are actually any good, and the effort they do make is overwritten by gameplay needs whenever convenient. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

>>385732593
Ever played an adventure game?

>>385717627
>>385718615
>create a medium that is based on interactivity
>water it down by appealing to the masses by injecting shitty stories that people don't care for
>w-what are you talking about, games can have different focus
Yeh but its shit mate. Absolute shit. There isn't a single storydriven game that wouldn't be better as a movie, without the redundant gameplay. Because gameplay and story don't work together as a focus. And they never have. One is alwas obsolete. When will you idiots finally learn this?
Illias and Oddyssey? LMAO! This is why you have no arguments. Because you have to reach so far while people talk videogames and videogame examples.
It doesnt matter what other mediums accomplish when games fail repeatedly.
>Silent Hill 2 or Homeworld would not work better as movies.
SH2 would work perfectly as a series, what are you on? And Homeworld doesn't have any characters so naturally it wouldn't. But you sound like one of the faggots who actually think Homeworld has a story and is not just 90% atmosphere with some events slapped on to it.

tl;dr - stories in videogames are mostly trash and the medium lives off its interactivity. And nobody sane would care about stories in games when the gameplay is soud. Saying anything else is outing yourself as a retard.

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>>385711348
No, not at all

>>385711637
This, one example is garrysmod

>>385733208
You're mentally illl. Seek help.

A mediocre story game is ten times better than a 20 hours long movie.

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I agree with him to the extent that a game needs a proper context for me to keep being interested.
Even if the gameplay is great, if I'm not interested in the context, or if doesn't keep me interested then I lose interest quickly.

But context doesn't necessarily mean story. It could mean setting or other things for example.

In that sense I actually disagree with the statement itself. I'd say story is more like a baron at court. It has its place at court, but its not a defining factor as much as gameplay and context.
Whats next to throne gameplay sits on is context. Might come in the form of story but is not limited to it and often far from it.

>>385733208
Who gives a shit if they work together im a way unique to games anyway? Music and gameplay don't work together either but no one sane would advocate for the removal of music from video games. People enjoy nice visuals, they enjoy music and they enjoy stories. Whether or not they form some kind of perfect whole doesnt even matter. The problem with story is that devs have a habit of making it too intrusive, theres nothing wrong with it existing.

>>385711637
This is true.
I don't think I've even had a story driven game make my top ten. Stories in games are just wasted effort. Its like an author trying to emphasize on music in a book. It works in small doses and as addition to the narrative, but as focus its completely out of place.

>>385733490
>You're mentally illl. Seek help.
lmao get rekt
>A mediocre story game is ten times better than a 20 hours long movie.
nah
>>385733705
>Music and gameplay don't work together either but no one sane would advocate for the removal of music from video games
that must be the most stupid shit in this whole thread

>>385711348
Gameplay is Deus
Aesthetics the King
Music the Queen
And Story the Jester

>>385711348
Yeah. Games aren't as simplistic anymore. If it's singleplayer they need to have a half decent story. Multiplayer is just not worth caring about with stories. You can just write a background and be done with it which a number of games do.

>>385734041
You're wrong. Nah isn't an argument. Movies suck cock. They're not immersive, can't hold the candle to vidya atmosphere and there's no interactivity. I'd rather play Planescape again than read the novelizaiton or ever watch a movie of it. You can whine about combat all you want, but the choice and freedom in the pseudo-open world can't be replaced by a movie or a book. Video games are the perfect medium for Planescape to be.

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>>385711348

Good gameplay can excuse a bad story and make me want replay it again and again.

Good story can't excuse bad gameplay. Not going to put up with something that isn't fun, and I'll probably just watch youtube videos to get the same experience while cutting out the tedium.

Gameplay's the kingdom. If there ain't shit to do, discover, or poke around, you bet your ass I'm skipping town.

>>385734041
>that must be the most stupid shit in this whole thread
Not an argument. The only exception I can think of is battle themes letting you know when you're spotted in open world games and such, otherwise it's just a background element that you can mute completely and get the same gameplay experience. Usually better.

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>>385711348
I think he should say theme, not story.

But also gameplay is a shit word that doesn't mean anything, so I'd disagree with that too.

Interface (the way in which a player interacts with the game) is actually the most important part of any game, ever. Theme is second. Theme should be used in place of story because not all games have stories, but all games have themes

>>385711348
Story is there to give context to gameplay. It amplifies it, but on it's own is worthless.

>>385734357
>Good story can't excuse bad gameplay.
>posts 2B

I loved Automata but it's thoroughly mediocre as an action game.

>>385733208
Games as a medium are in a unique position where it is incredibly easy to become emotionally attached to the characters, or become immersed in the setting. Using Homeworld as a convenient example, people love Karan S'jet as a character, yet she only has maybe at best a paragraph's worth of dialog to say throughout the whole game. The same can be said of most video game protagonists and side characters, you can put magnitudes less effort into them than characters in a novel or a movie and people will still become emotionally attached through gameplay.

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>I used to be dogmatic in my belief that "Gameplay is the only thing that matters", but I've since left behind such notions. I can enjoy games for what they offer and enjoy the fact that said offerings are immensely diverse.

RRRRREEEEEEEEEE

>>385734604

Is why I put it there.

But it still manages to meet both ways half-and-half. The higher difficulties are fun to git gud at, and I feel there's enough variety in it to replay for a couple endings, especially in comparison to the recent competition.

That, and I like the boss fights, which many (western) games skimp out on nowadays.

>>385711348
The thing that draws me to a particular game depends on that game. None of you trying to order the various aspects like they're entirely separate actually appreciate games in the way you say you do.

>>385726871
hello?

>>385734783
As always Matthew is the only one that's actually thought things through.

replace "story" with "aesthetics" or "atmosphere". Story is not the counterpart to gameplay, it's a piece of the counterpart.

>>385734783
Matthew is still dogmatic as fuck in other ways. He basically worships certain developers even though every game is a multi-man project.

>>385736282
That's the mentality of the average player. The only people who identify a gameplay or story side are autists who like shit flinging online. It's not even an actual belief half the time, but rhetoric spewed as a reaction to AAA dev obsession with movie games.