Why they dont make games like this anymore, /v/? Hell, why they

Beats me.
>turn-based, isometric, 4+ man custom party dungeon crawler with lots of different kind of enemies and loot
Fucking gimme

>>385623353

Its not really about "casual audience" too - such games never had massive audience to begin with.

The only problem I see is D&D license.

>>385623620
To hell with the license, I'd be happy with ANY new game like that

>>385623752

Me too but I dont think that creating good and balanced system is easy or cheap. Or buying license for any existing ones.

>>385622378
There's too many possible "failure points" in the design of such a game to make it worth the risk. You could as easily have a pitchfork-waving crowd howling at your door about ruining their memories as you could have glowing accolades.

>>385623353
Etrian Odyssey and stuff is honestly the closest you can get. I know they don't have battle map, but they have the rest.

>>385623353
There's also the pretty great indie title Knights of the Chalice. It's not isometric, though, but oldschool topdown.

>be game dev¨
>"Hmm... How do I pay my wife's son rent this month?"
>Look at the popular games
>"Guess I'll make a shitty version of whatever is popular."

>>385622378
D&D sucks. You can make something better.

>>385622378

There isn't much of an advantage for developers. Nobody cares about D&D and the people who do will play your game anyway even without a D&D tie-in.

You don't need to pay a license fee or be bound by D&D rules when you make your own setting so why bother?

>>385622378
I don't know about you but ToEE is my go to example of a game that's better on paper than it actually is. Shit encounter design combined with the worst part of 3.5 being the only thing you get combined with rules problems that you're forced to run headfirst into? Fuck that. Divinity: Original Sin played a hundred times better.

>>385625496

Like what?

>>385624925

Dungeons crawlers are great and EO is very good crawler itself but in isometric setting, you have additional element of characters placing as opposed to very limited formation options.

>>385625885

I cant really agree, I played ToEE few times already and loved it everytime.

>>385626152
I might've liked ToEE if there weren't 50 filler encounters of two dozen bugbears, if it wasn't stuck on core classes with none of the ACFs or feat support that could make noncasters interesting, if the only thing that made them even remotely good wasn't a rules change to let you spam AoOs when you shouldn't be able to, if crowd control/buff spells didn't make the game their bitch(if they don't manage to crash it because they affected too many enemies at once, that is), and didn't have to deal with shit mechanics like full attacking.

I can get behind porting the good parts of 3.5 or a project to create a near 1:1 replication of tabletop rules to make a game around. I can't and won't get behind making a near 1:1 replication of core 3.5.

>>385625885
>Only one mention of Divinity Original Sin

Yall don't know shit about modern turn based if you don't know about that

>>385622378
I found muh Dungeon Siege 2 superior to any other similar games, even though i like most of the crpgs.

>>385625496
D&D is great in this sense that almost everyone knows the basic rules. Even your dumbass neighbour probably knows something about the game.

>>385622378
>Hell, why they dont make ANY new D&D games?
Atari sat on the license from 2008-2012 and refused to do anything with it until they were sued. Hasbro butchered WotC's D&D department starting in 2011 because their sales expectations were along the lines of M:tG, which is literally impossible for tabletop RPGs to pull in(tabletop in general is a $1.1B per year industry. Tabletop RPGs as a whole are *3.18...%* of that.) so they're not really able to license out anymore.

>>385624925
They're not isometric

File: Knights_of_the_Chalice.jpg (232KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 960x720px

>>385622378
>Why they dont make games like this anymore, /v/?
They did and it was 10x more hardcore and more faithful to the TT rules than ToEE, but nobody bought it, because it didn't have shiny graphics. You don't deserve good D&D games.

>>385622378
>miss true, good turn-based team-based RPG with proper party building
Wasteland 2, Knights of the Chalice.

Personally, I prefer recruiting pre-made NPCs though who react to player decisions. Player generated parties tend to be a bit lifeless.

File: 1468689687177.jpg (58KB, 667x800px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 667x800px

>>385622378
They are making a ton of games like these recently.
Only difference is that they no longer have a D&D license.

>>385628637
Didn't it sell reasonably well? Although it should be added that they sold it through their own platform rather than Steam. Had they used Steam they would have gained a lot more exposition.

File: 1484874115947.gif (834KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

834KB, 256x256px

>>385628829
>PoE
>shadowrun
>Wasteland 2
>ton of games

>>385628887
>Didn't it sell reasonably well?
It didn't. You know how I'm sure of that, because there's no KotC2 and never will be.

>Had they used Steam they would have gained a lot more exposition.
This. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!? You can't rely on hardcore TT autists for your game with zero marketing to become a significant financial success.

>>385628637
>because it didn't have shiny graphics
It's ok to not have shiny graphics. But please don't make your game look like shit, jesus christ it's so ugly I wanna rip my eyes out

>>385628637

I dont expect shiny graphics but Knights of Chalice have SHIT graphics that dont even pass the "muh old times" approach. Even /vr/ will admit that Wizardry VI looks like shit for example, making game look ugly because of "I want to make it like old times" is big no-no.

>>385628271

Wait, so no more D&D games because nobody is selling licenses anymore? Then who would sue devs, if they would actually make game based on latest edition, for example?

>>385628637
KotC has some major issues though.

>>385628637
>because it didn't have shiny graphics

You don't need shiny graphics to not have a pants on head retarded perspective.

File: 1332995116646.png (472KB, 957x535px) Image search: [Google]

472KB, 957x535px

>>385622378
Because D&D has a lot of classes, spellls and other content that the player will not see, and that's not how you make games nowadays.
You don't let the player choose, cause that equals content that you paid money to produce but which will effectively not exist for most players. You have to shove everything in the player's face and hold his hand so he doesn't miss anything.

>>385629000

And PoE is not turn-based, plus its Baldurs Gate fan-wank. And "MUH BALANCE" where tanks are not being able to deal damage because and damage dealers dies from scratches because everything must be "BALANCED".

>>385629178
>Then who would sue devs, if they would actually make game based on latest edition,
Hasbro, WotC's parent company.

For what it's worth there IS a Pathfinder game coming out that's sort of like what you want, but it's RTwP. Still better than ToEE because it's going to have some of the actually interesting to play classes like Alchemist and Inquisitor.

>>385629323
Sure, sure. My point was where are those tons of games?

>>385629014
KotC2 is still in development, not that I'm interested in it.

>>385629323
>And "MUH BALANCE" where tanks are not being able to deal damage because and damage dealers dies from scratches because everything must be "BALANCED".
Don't spout nonsense, the game is soloable on PotD+permadeath with a pure fighter or paladin who are required to both tank and dish out damage.

File: 5d7d0daca0d6ad1fc492a535d5d262f5[1].jpg (109KB, 736x936px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 736x936px

>>385622378
>I will never get to be a half dwarf musclegirl
I would give anything for a new Dark Sun game, get myself a thri-kreen waifu, eaten by cannablistic hobbits..

File: 1488690869632.jpg (21KB, 375x360px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 375x360px

>>385629443
>KotC2 is still in development
>he actually believes it's not vaporware

>>385629264

Like I mentioned in >>385623620 such games never had the wide audience. Casuals have their own games and you can still make money on more hardcore fans, if you make actually good game (before somebody will mention Knights of the chalice - good game that looks acceptable. Its not THAT hard holy shit).

>>385629413

I would love to see them too, belive me.

>>385629348

I fucking hate real time with pause. On higher difficulties you pause every second or vritual round anyway, it only makes it more annoying and messy solution than turn-based while working nearly the same.

The only things that real-time is good for is killing weak monsters. Like in Arcanum.

>>385629682
KotC isn't a great looking game by any means but it looks better in motion than it does in screenshots.

Turn-based combat can't hide poor balancing behind flashy spamming and
le git gud xD.

>>385627324
Even though the game starts to fall apart partway through Luculla Forest, it's still the best example of good encounter/boss design in the genre and has one of the best skill systems in it.

>>385622378
speaking of which, is there any way to install the unofficial patch for this game without having fucking java installed?

>>385631804

I dont think so. This Java requirement is pissing me off too.

>>385622378
because it takes a lot more effort to create a good game than it does to shit out something for the casual retards who are both more numerous and more stupid with their money

>>385622378
DivOS2 is getting a game master mode that looks pretty much 1:1 D&D TT

File: 1371657295828.png (70KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 300x300px

>>385622378
>game devs fell for the real time with pause meme
>Pillars of Eternity could have had turn-based strategy instead of clunky pause-based combat
WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE RTWP?

>>385622378
What game is this?

>>385635051
Temple of Elemental Evil

>>385634943

"Muh Baldurs Gate" aka "baby first D&D rpg". Its not even that good but people like good memories of their first games.

>>385634608

But can you actually make your own party or its once again "make one or two main chars and get stuck with pre-mades". I hate pre-mades.

>>385635083
Is it a good game?

I tried it once and couldn't get into it for some reason. Got to the first town and was like "meh".

>>385635298
It's best DnD 3.5e adaptation into game.
Not kinda 10/10, but it's fun, if you looking for 3.5e average to very good at best adventure, go for it,

>>385635165
Jokes on you. My first D&D game NWN.

>>385635545
Why is it not 10/10? Bugs? Writing?

>>385635785
Writing mostly.
Not uber epic adventure you'd except from a DnD game, but it's enjoyable.

>>385628637
KotC is just a dumbed-down D&D with all options removed while having just as shitty balance.

>>385635165
By the time the game releases you should be able to and right now, if you absolutely felt the need to make your own party, you can launch 4 clients, have one host and have the others join your game, make one party member each on each client, save on the host when you're in-game, and then kill all the clients and reload that save to control all of the PCs at once.

>>385635785
It's buggy as shit (though a lot less so with the fanpatch) and has awful pacing for the first 1/3rd of the game. I imagine many people would get bored and give up before they get to the good stuff.

The writing is minimal, but not awful. The combat is really the main draw here with a lot of tactical options and pretty good encounter design.

>>385629682
You're a fucking shit-eating cuck. KotC is good from the gameplay point of view to the point where it can look like your ugly fucking face and it would still be a great game.

Again, you had your chance to support games like ToEE, but you've wasted it. Enjoy your nogames.

>>385635954
I don't get the love for the game either. It has better encounter design than ToEE by a mile, but you KNOW you've fucked up when one class is useless in a game with three classes. It's not like this was hard to see coming, either.

>>385635165
>But can you actually make your own party or its once again "make one or two main chars and get stuck with pre-mades". I hate pre-mades.
You make one character, and the rest are premades. Though you get to choose what base class the premades start as and level them up manually, so the only thing that's really premade is their appearance.

>>385635954
>dumbed-down D&D
This "dumbed-down D&D" has more depth than any other turn-based combat system in existence apart from, maybe, the combat systems in Mordheim and Warmachine: Tactics.

>>385636386
Of course, I was speaking purely about vidya turn-based systems.

>>385636386
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume KotC is the only turn based game you've ever played.

Because games like that bankrupt companies. Troika went of business 2 years after releasing ToEE. Do you have an idea of the effort it takes to pump out all those maps, characters, spells, etc.? When you can release a casual game and make bank.

>>385636386
No it doesn't. Most of the options in that game are worthless, crafting of most kinds is broken, Knights are objectively inferior to Clerics in practical play for many many reasons and are a fucking massive liability if you're trying to push through high level content like the tower before you're max level, Web, Entangle, and Dominate Monster are insanely broken because of bad implementation, and the final boss fight is specifically built around you abusing Dominate Monster because it's unwinnable any other way. I've beaten KotC. You're full of shit if you think it even comes close to something like JA2 or Fallout Tactics.

>>385636486
Give me a turn-based tactics game that has more tactical depth than KotC that is not Mordheim or Warmachine. And no, ToEE doesn't even come close to KotC.

>>385628637
that game does actually have graphics so shiny that it makes you gouge your eyes out

>>385636854
Jagged Alliance 2.

Also, it's telling that you think RNGheim and Casualmachine are good tactical games.

>>385636854
I know you'd shitpost if I posted D:OS so I'll just point you towards FFT 1.3 regardless of my opinions on that game.

>>385636854
>And no, ToEE doesn't even come close to KotC.
You're right, it's not even close. It's about 20 times better.

KotC doesn't have even a fraction of the tactical options ToEE has, and it has only 3 classes of which 1 is useless. Literally the only good thing KotC has is more varied encounters.

>>385636778
>No it doesn't.
Yes, it does. Again, name a game with more tactical depth.

>Most of the options in that game are worthless
Wrong. Not objectively the best does not mean worthless, I've finished the game with a party consisting of all classes and met no insurmountable obstacles.

>Knights are objectively inferior to Clerics
Not an argument. No game is perfectly balanced, there is no turn based tactics game out there with perfect balance, where each and every class is equally useful.

>crafting of most kinds is broken
It's not mandatory to finish the game, but very useful, yes, but it bears a permanent xp penalty in a game where grinding is impossible due to a limited number of encounters.

>liability if you're trying to push through high level content like the tower before you're max level
>high level areas are hard unless you use the absolute best options the game has to offer
WOOOOOW.

>Web, Entangle, and Dominate Monster are insanely broken
Just like in PnP and any D&D game including IWD1-2 and ToEE, so not an argument.

>and the final boss fight is specifically built around you abusing Dominate Monster because it's unwinnable any other way

Shitter, crafting alone is the bane of the last boss, you don't know shit.

>I've beaten KotC.
So have I, but I'm not a shit-eating mongoloid like you, who bad mouths good games simply because they do not conform to some retarded standard in your head.

>You're full of shit if you think it even comes close to something like JA2 or Fallout Tactics.
AHAHAHAHA. You're a dumbufck, that's pretty much it. JA2 and FOT are babby-tier compared to KotC, both mechanics and difficulty wise.

>>385636386
>This "dumbed-down D&D" has more depth than any other turn-based combat system in existence
Haven't played the game, why is that?
Quickly reading stuff online tells me the exact opposite, seems like a completely primitive game system with atrocious balancing.

>>385637481
Way to make yourself look like a retard.

Hint: The final fight isn't the red dragon.

>>385637018
>Jagged Alliance 2.
It's primitive trash in comparison, not even in the same league. It lacks whole fucking systems that are present in KotC like grappling, counterspelling or readying yourself against spells. The fact that you think JA2 is even in the same league shows you know absolutely jack fucking shit on the topic.

>>385637637
That's an optional boss, dumbfuck. Again, shows just how much you know about the game.

>>385637481
>but it bears a permanent xp penalty in a game where grinding is impossible
Way to be wrong on both counts. You gain more XP when you're behind in levels due to the way XP is doled out based on ECL. Use it in a specific way and you end up with MORE XP than someone who never crafted. Plus you seem to have forgotten about the random encounters on the world map.

>>385637568
It is.

This guy shitposts about KotC in every strategy thread. He especially has a hateboner for ToEE, because KotC is an extremely limited, dumbed-down version of the open source D20 license while ToEE uses the full extent of the actual D&D license.

>>385637568
>Haven't played the game, why is that?
Because it has more TT systems and more challenge than all other D&D games combined.

>>385637807
You don't get to end the game until you beat it, so no, it's not.

>>385634943
A lot of people are vehement about their opposition to turn based combat

rtwp maintains the spirit of turn based while giving those with less attention span a reason to continue playing the game. because video game are a business and they're trying to sell a product to as many people as they can.

>>385637675
>a realistic game is bad because it doesn't have magic spells

Autism speaks.

>>385637890
>because KotC is an extremely limited
Compared to what, shitstain? It sure as hell has more depth than ToEE aka "bugbear genocide simulator". In fact, ToEE is not even worth mentioning alongside KotC simply because of how shit the encounter design in TOEE is.

>>385637675
>like grappling
Never a better option than attacking at any point in the game. The only reason it matters is because enemies can grapple *you*.
>counterspelling
Bad option for players because it eats up a spellcaster's turn when they could just nail them with a spell that disables them.
>readying yourself against spells
Yeah that single attack instead of full attacking that's reliant on them not seeking cover is sure going to make them sweat.

You couldn't make it more obvious you've never played JA2 if you tried.

>>385637985
It's not about the spells themselves, mongoloid, it's about the systems. Can you RELIABLY ready your characters in JA2 against a specific action? No, you have to rely on random interrupts. It's shit.

>>385638103
I love how you keep claiming that KotC is the deepest game ever without even providing any arguments to back that up. You're just repeating "HURR IT'S DA BEST" over and over expecting anyone to take your autistic word for it.

PROTIP: It doesn't work.

File: il_570xN.247870441.jpg (57KB, 570x376px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 570x376px

ADnD 2e is the only good version of DnD.

>There will be a video game based on Riddle of Steel system

>>385638151
>Never a better option than attacking at any point in the game.
uh, huh, especially against enemy wizards with a melee character. Your ignorance couldn't be more apparent, no need to read the rest of the drivel you've written.

>>385637675
>like grappling, counterspelling or readying yourself against spells
ToEE does all that and more.

>>385638307
>providing any arguments to back that up
But I have: it has more tactical features and systems than any other turn based tactics game apart from, arguably Mordheim and Warmachine. The fact that you have not even tried to give an example of a game with more tactical features is all I need to know.

>>385638227
Well first off, readying has to be a viable option for it to actually matter, second off interrupts in JA2 are based off of your AGI, DEX, and level vs the enemy's, and in the dark, whether you have Night Ops or not.

>>385638487
ToEE has more tactical features and systems than all three of those games compared.

>>385638383
>especially against enemy wizards with a melee character.
Especially against them because they're going to drop in a round of contact with a halfway competent melee character anyways. What're you going to do, waste two rounds pinning them or waste a round forcing them to cast Dimension Door when you could've killed them in conjunction with your archer buddy?

File: pool of radiance.png (25KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 640x480px

Best DND based game coming through

>>385638395
ToEE is trash because of encounter design alone, doesn't mater what it has.

>>385638797
Hush, Anon. You're going to confuse people by suggesting that D&D-based games existed since before the late 90s.

>>385638590
Name me a single feature ToEE has that KotC hasn't.

>>385638942
Power Attack.

>>385637895
>Because it has more TT systems and more challenge than all other D&D games combined.
That's not saying much honestly.
The vast majority of D&D based games are mediocre with a few alright games like Boulder's Gate once in a while, and still, you must REALLY like D&D's ruleset and design philosophy.

You say it has more depth than any other turn based game ever made but I see no ecology mechanics, crafting looks as primitive and basic as it gets, the basic stat systems, classes, character building and growth are the same old shit I've seen since almost three decades in countless games.
I'll play the game anyway, but it really doesn't look even remotely as deep as you make it look like.

Also, you seem to think that having more features, options or more mechanics make the game automatically deeper or more hardcore than others, that's actually the biggest red flag for completely broken systems, as exemplified by games like Daggerfall(and the vast majority of TES outside of that Skyrim turd) and most D&D based games.
You don't need a gorillion different systems to make a deep game, you need coherent and overall functional design.

>>385638825
>moving the goalposts

Way to concede the point.

>>385638991
>that's actually the biggest red flag for completely broken systems
THIS

HOLY SHIT THIS

I do not *care* how intricate and full-featured your game's mechanics are if the whole game explodes the second I start playing while using my brain, or especially if it happens unintentionally.

>>385638506
>Well first off, readying has to be a viable option for it to actually matter
And it is, your shit opinion that it's not viable doesn't actually make it non-viable. Again, no game is perfectly balanced, some actions are bound to be better than others, but only a complete dumbfuck like you would call something "non-viable" when it works good enough to beat the game.

>second off interrupts in JA2 are based off of your AGI, DEX, and level vs the enemy's, and in the dark, whether you have Night Ops or not.
They are still HEAVILY chance-based, you shit-eating cuck and if the enemy is anywhere near your character level you are basically tossing a coin for those interrupts.

>>385638989
I thought only BG had power attack as an HLA and it wan't even really all that good, just stun for 2 rounds at save vs death -4

>>385638942
Actual stealth.

More than two worthwhile classes.

>>385639012
>encounter design is not a tactical feature
>enemy variety and enemy ability variety are not a tactical feature
It's OK, no need to prove you're retarded any more than you already have.

>>385639230
Wrong system. 3E Power Attack is take -1 to hit for +1 to damage, damage bonus doubles if you're twohanding. Considering martials and enemy HP were designed around this system(It's why attack bonuses dominate AC) its omission in KotC is fucking retarded.

I'm willing to bet the KotC shill is actually Pierre Begue himself.

The guy is well-known to be a thin-skinned drama queen with an inflated ego.

So, what do you think about the SpiderWeb games? Yay or nay?

>>385639609
Vogel is a weirdo and all the sequels tend to be just more of the same, but they're pretty good for what they are.

File: 978907603-00.jpg (221KB, 800x1221px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 800x1221px

>>385638909
The world must know
These turn based ones really are the most well done ADnD games that exist.

I've never been a fan of the first person dungeon crawl ones though.
DnD and ADnD only really works well as a turn based system
3e and onwards is a clusterfuck of modifier creep and superfluous statistics like feats and skills

>>385639191
OK look you dumb fucker, let me sum up 3E in a nutshell

PROACTIVE PLAY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
REACTIVE PLAY

Shooting a Wizard 3 times before he can take his turn instead of readying an action to shoot at him once, or worse, accidentally shoot at the Cleric who got initiative before him, is an objectively better course of action in every case. Counterspelling is an objectively worse use of your time than slamming them and anyone surrounding them with AoE CC that will prevent them from taking their turn more often than you'll counterspell them. You consistently have a higher chance of stopping anything in KotC by being proactive.

>>385639545
On one hand I'd laugh, on the other I'd cry because it would tell me exactly how poor of an understanding of his own game he has. You'd have to be reaaaaaaally stupid to implement systems that are core to gameplay then forget they're there.

>>385639869
Feats are a good concept handled in the shittiest manner possible and 3E's skills are worse than 2E NWPs.

>>385638942
Prepared spellcasting, Cleric domains, Wild Shape, reach weapons, most of the Druid spell list.

>>385640982
and 3e has such terrible modifier creep.
a level 5-7 character can have combat modifiers of +11-+16 ish which completely trivializes the best tier of armor (Full Plate +8AC) meanwhile on ADnD Full Plate has 1AC which still protects you about 50% of the time against a level 10 Fighting man

>>385634943
People like to play rts instead of gran strategy games.

>>385629498
>Dark Sun
My nigga.
The only game I'm aware of in that setting is Armageddon mud which is plagued by its staff and community.The setting really deserves a good video game.

>>385641724
5E's anti-modifier creep bothers me a lot more than that, honestly. Attack bonuses were intended to outstrip AC from the get-go because of the insane HP inflation that you were supposed to counter with Power Attack, plus iterative penalties on top of that. Full plate by itself may not protect you from the Fighter's first attack, but he's probably not doing much damage to you unless he's dropping his attack bonus a couple notches with Power Attack, which is going to put his iterative well within range of full plate protecting you. Ultimately it was a flawed design that punished martials because full attacking is an objectively shit mechanic, but that's neither here nor there.

File: Untitled.png (729KB, 852x624px) Image search: [Google]

729KB, 852x624px

>>385637018
>RNGheim
YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH FAGGOT

>>385642565
I actually like Mordheim, but between the extreme reliance on RNG to do anything at all and the buggy as fuck AI it's just not that good a game.

>>385642565
he's right though.
>want to do something as simple as movement by climbing? have fun rolling the dice to see if you actually make it or take damage
retarded. and I thought xcom RNG was bad.

>>385642230
It got those in the mid-90s. Definitely some of the better RPGs of the era.

>>385643164
That's what makes it fun. That's what make it exciting.

>>385643931
not for me, but hey if you like it then enjoy it

File: f63.jpg (41KB, 396x382px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 396x382px

>>385643164
>that ill-formatted greentext

>>385643931
A small random factor is exciting in combat. Failing to climb a wall three times in a row is not exciting.

Also having to make 3-4 different rolls to cast a fucking spell and then get randomly assfucked because you failed one is just anti-fun.

>>385644065
>see an opinion you don't like? just screech reddit!

>they
These games are all over the place, what's your problem?

>>385643931
Making everything unreliable doesn't make a game interesting.

>>385644267
you havent learned the nuances of using greentext. go away or reformat your post. i agree that a dice roll is a horrible way to determine movement success, but your post is shit so im telling you to leave

File: suck my cock.gif (2MB, 384x288px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 384x288px

>>385644454
>but your post is shit so im telling you to leave
simmer down autismo

>>385642565

>enemy have ~50% hit chance
>hits everytime
>your dudes have 70% hit chance
>always lose

Im still mad. But my review on Steam calling it "RNG: The Game" was marked as "funny".

>>385644285

Go ahead and name such titles from last 4 years. No, PoE is real-time. And Tides of Num are talk-based, there is very little combat. Only DivOS partially counts but you cant make your whole party, only two dudes and in sequel, only one.

>>385645113
4 member party creation was like the second mod for D:OS and EE. There's a workaround for D:OS2 until they get around to implementing it too.

>>385645528

Im waiting for officiall release of DivOS 2 anyway. Whats EE, by the way?

>>385645702
D:OS Enhanced Edition

>>385644112
Maybe her palms were sweaty. IMO succeeding in climbing a wall everytime you want/press a button is not exciting in any way, just predictable.

>>385645113
>>385645528
Even without mods or the multiplayer workaround, the D:OS2 premade characters are almost fully customizable. The only thing that's fixed is their race/gender.

Which I guess sucks if you want to play an all-Dwarf party or something like that, but it's still better than most RPGs.

>>385645997
I don't want basic movement to be unpredictable. It makes the game far too RNG-dependant. Positioning is a huge aspect of tactics, and leaving positioning options up to RNG is just shit design.

>>385646258
Climbing is not basic movement and Mordheim is a ruined city of rubble and loose debris. Characters there often wear armor and carry heavy weapons. Climbing under these conditions is a risky and dangerous activity. You fell. You knew the risks!

>>385629264

>don't give players options because that means we might have to give our game some replay value

t. fucking retard who doesn't even understand what an RPG is

>>385647479
Knowing the risk is not the issue. The issue is that there being such risks associated with positioning is just shit design. If you had to roll for every step you took they could shot you the exact percentage risk you're taking and it would still be shit.

I'm willing to accept rolls for combat (though Mordheim also overdoes that) since it's a direct competition between you and your opponent. But I'm not gonna put up with having to perform constant dice checks just to get around the map. Not because it's unfair (the enemy has to deal with it as well so at least everyone is gimped equally), but because it's simply never any fun.

And climbing/jumping is just one aspect of the RNG. It's one of the most pointless and badly thought-out aspects, but still only one of many. Literally every action you can do in the game is based on RNG. Even simply walking is subject to RNG because you might walk into random traps that cannot be detected or disarmed in any way. Not even fucking Blood Bowl is as dependent on constant dice rolls as Mordheim is.

Besides that, the extreme reliance on RNG is only part of why Mordheim is a bad game. It's also just poorly programmed and poorly polished. shit like the AI almost constantly getting stuck on door frames, jump points and other chokepoints, a problem that has been present since before launch and never fixed, is just as awful.

>>385648229
I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of his post.

>>385648447
>Playing Mordheim on singleplayer

Jesus man wtf are you doing? Git gud and join the multiplayer club with the cool kids.

>>385649601
I did play some PvP, but first of all, the game doesn't really have the playerbase to sustain a healthy PvP community. This especially shows in how you only ever encounter the same shitty cookie-cutter builds especially at higher levels. It was damn bad before I dropped the game and I don't even want to imagine how much worse it's become since then with the game dying even further.

And second, eliminating the godawful AI only fixes one issue of many. No matter what game mode you play in, the RNG is the same. And I can't imagine anyone actually enjoying randomly being given the win because the enemy's spellcaster blew himself up because he failed a roll, or losing because your ace gunner randomly fell down the wall he was supposed to be perching on, or any of the hundreds of completely random ways the RNG can screw you over in this game even outside of combat.

Adding a permadeath and permanent injury system on top of that (which are also 100% RNG of course) is just adding insult to injury.