Just finished MGS2. what. the. fuck. Can someone explain the

Did you sleep for the last 30 minutes of the game?

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

>>385590184
Now if you put yourself Into the 2002 where there wasn't supposed to be sequels this game is great

>>385590184
the patriots are a secret shadow government and they're conducting a test and you're all lab rats to them.

>>385590368

Something something S3, somehing something Liquid's arm, something something Jack the Ripper, aomething something GW, something something Patriots's list

MGS2 gets intentionally vague about what actually happened in the plot and what was simulated. MGS4 takes place after 2 and addresses 2's insanity (but doesn't completely explain it). MGS3 is much easier to follow, though not nearly as deep plot-wise.

>>385590184
nah, dont pay attention to that crappy story, did you enjoy the game?

Basically the whole games events were orchestrated by the patriots (an AI that controls the worlds governments) to recreate shadow Moses and study how their test subject (raiden) will react to having information provided only by the patriots so they can use their data from this simulation to control all the worlds media from the big shell and limit the stream of information to the people so memes don't make them retarded.

>>385590540

What about Liquid's arm? How did Liquid orchestrate the surgery to implant his arm on Ocelot after his death, in hopes that Ocelot would know the location of the Patriots so that Liquid could get his revenge? Also, when did Snake change the discs with Raiden, so that Snake could have the actual one used to find out the names of he real Patriots?

>>385590184
A group of conspirators took financial control of global politics becoming akin to the Illuminati. Their latest project was creating an AI to micromanage not only the political sphere but also attempt to manipulate the perceptions and thus, the motivations, of the masses at large as well. You give one component AI of a larger network of AI a virus which sets this project back a bit.

Solidus spent his life working for this cabal and eventually rebels, deciding to use one of their pawns, you, to aid him in thwarting them. He dies for the effort. Because asking you nicely probably wouldn't have worked anyway and he was dumb and/or suicidal.

Solid was a pawn too but then he got better but not really.

>>385590605

It was fun, but somewhat disappointing coming off of 1. Big Shell was a terrible location gameplay-wise, I'd rather have a sprawling base like Shadow Moses.

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Revolver Ocelot leaks Metal Gear Rex's plans on the black market after Shadow Moses.
Grafts Liquid Snake's arm to his stump.
Snake and Otacon join a UN organization based on shutting down Metal Gear projects.
Tanker incident, Ocelot betrays the Russians and gets Metal Gear Ray.
Gearge Sears aka Solidus Snake, one of Big Boss's clone and former president, forms an elite unit called Dead Cell to take down the Patriots, a shadowy organization running the US government and military behind the scenes.
Big Shell is housing the Patriot AI dubbed GW.
GW dispatches Raiden, a former child soldier under Solidus, to the Big Shell and kill Dead Cell. Raiden thinks he's serving under FoxHound, Snake's old unit. He meets Snake in disguise, AKA Pliskin and Otacon.
Otacon's sister damages GW with a virus.
GW spergs out, Raiden gets captured as a lure for Snake to sneak into Arsenal Gear, the hidden part of Big Shell.
Learns that the Russians are there because the Patriots kidnapped their leader's daughter.
Raiden takes on Metal Gear Ray and Solidus.
Solidus tries to kill Raiden for his nanomachines, which may lead him to the Patriots.
Snake gets his hands on the list of the Patriots founding members, but they've been dead for decades.
Raiden goes to save the Russian's daughter.

What did you misunderstand?


Terrorists take over an oil rig. Your "father" is in charge of the terrorist team, and your "father" was placed by the Patriots, a shadow government that operates completely unnoticed and is older than most modern countries. the handlers you had for the mission were taken over by the Patriots and you were set up. Upon over coming the terrorist plot, you are free (for now) from the Patriots plot.

Snake then discovers that the Patriots are so secretive that they haven't technically existed for hundreds of years. Leaving the story open for MGS 4

At least that's what i remember, I haven't replayed it since it was released

>>385590184
MGS2 is a simulator. But rather than being in a VR computer. It's real life as the computer. Riden, being sent into a terrorist stand off, having the rescue VIPs and defeat an elite team. Because cloning was flawed and the Sons of the Boss are all fucked up and caused more trouble than they were worth. The Patriots hoped to make a new solder on par with the original Solid Snake by putting Riden through a Shadow Mosses simulation.

>>385590184
Actual plot of the game:

Jack is a former child soldier picked up from some shitty african country due to his fighting skills. Some series of events happen and he's immediately enlisted in a super-top-secret operation because he wanted to be like the propaganda posters always told him what the "Greatest soldier" should be. The super-top-secret organization looks at his ruthless history in Africa, agrees and enlists him.

At the Big Shell, Jack is released and seemingly follows a choreographed sequence of events that are extremely unlikely to happen normally. Such as his support being delayed, his own estranged girlfriend being made an operator, contacts actively seeking him out to give him info, and mission objectives changing from one moment to the next. He gets suspicious and asks his CO, Colonel, about why this is happening. Colonel continues to dodge this question, and Jack gets more and more irritated with him as time goes on. This starts to affect his work, as he begins outright telling people (like Plisskin) about the strange series of events happening and how none of his COs are being cooperative about it. This fragile illusion of control starts to degrade for Jack; as things start happening on their own with little to no input from him, and how he feels powerless to stop it (He says this to Snake in a codec call). This culminates with Arsenal Gear leaving, and Jack finding out that this CO was actually an AI inside of Arsenal Gear.

The entire point of the plot is that while Jack thought he was the one playing a game, it was actually a game playing him. With all the sequence of events and the actors pushing him from one moment to the next. The end result being the Patriots (Who Jack was actually working for) feeling like they had found a way to create a perfect soldier, by treating him as if he was just another player inside of a game.

>>385590603

There's nothing vague. Everything happened. Raiden was talking to Colonel's AI throughout all of the game, though, and with Rose's AI from the moment the Colonel started to glitch until the end of the battle with Solidus.

>>385590184
There is no "actual plot", it's meant to be a bunch of confusing nonsense. It was originally meant to make even less sense, but others at Konami forced Kojima to include more explanations for stuff than he wanted.

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>>385590540
>>385590717
>>385590784
>>385590913
>>385590939
>>385591012
>>385591021

This is Ocelot. You fell for my master plan. I made you believe that OP, which was me all along, was someone who never played MGS2 when in reality I have played through the game multiple times and know 100% of the plot. I was just testing you to see if you actually remembered it.

You're pretty good.

>>385591362
Thanks, based OP

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>>385591362

>>385590571
Control of Shadow governments in the information age and the importance of passing along cultural memes (Our culture, human history, etc etc) and not just our genes. Everyone should work towards the future and preserve history because those two are one in the same.

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>>385591362
RUSED!

>>385590184
The important thing to remember is that Snake died on that tanker two years ago.

So the official ranking is

MGS 3 > MGS 1 > MG2 SS > MGS 4 > MGS V > MGS 2 > MGR R > MG 1 > MGS PW > MGS PO

Right?

>>385591342
>It was originally meant to make even less sense, but others at Konami forced Kojima to include more explanations for stuff than he wanted.
Can you explain?

>>385591823

Then who was in the plant saying he was Snake?

>>385591876
Retarded plot starring femboy is better than no plot in a clusterfuck of an unfinished game
MGS2 > MGSV

>>385590184
Basically the a patriots uses the control of information to control people.

>>385591960
Plisken,
Are you retarded?

>>385592235

But isn't Pliskin just Snake?

>>385591960
Snake died in that tanker 2 years ago.

>>385592463

But he time travelled to 1964 in MGS 3

>>385592449
Well, that's what pliskin wants you to think,
Really pliskin IS the Patriots

>>385591928
It was originally gonna be called "MGSIII", the identity of the new Deepthroat was never gonna be revealed meaning that there would be no explanation as to why the Russians were there, and there wasn't gonna be any more development on Snake's situation beyond him just appearing as Pliskin. Prolly some other stuff that I don't know as well. The point being that the game only ended up as relatively comprehensible as it did bc Kojima didn't get his way, which I think undercuts the message a bit. But who cares, Kojima would eventually destroy that message himself by creating MGS4 anyway due retarded fanboys keeping trying to see logic in a story that was intentionally created to be illogical.

>>385591876
Your top two are correct, but two should be right after 1. It's way better than four or five or the NES games

The illuminati made a sequel to MGS1 to prove that they could make a sequel to MGS1.

What the fuck happened to Pliskin?
Where did he go?

>>385592919

MG2SS still holds up as one of the best in the series.

>>385593032
I guess Otacon evacuated him with the civilians?

>>385593032

He's an agent of the Patriots. He started to 'play the game' as well, so he dressed as Snake due to his uncanny resemblence.

>>385590540
>>385590913
Pretty much this. The Patriots control everything through information control and Solidus wanted to free new york and use it as a base of operations against the Patriots to free the world. Raiden kills Solidus because Solidus killed Raiden's parents and abducted him to be a child soldier in his army in Liberia.

The only confusing and stupid part of the game is the whole Liquid Ocelot arm thing. Like, fuck off.

>>385591034
But how do Colonel and Raiden know eachother in mgs54?

>>385593240
It's stupid in MGS2 but explained in MGS4 where it's still stupid

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the point of MGS2 is literally just b urself

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I'm going to spell it out loud: THE PATRIOTS WANTED TO TEST THE GW AI RESPONSIBLE FOR CENSORING INFORMATION BY ARTIFICIALLY RECREATING THE CONDITIONS OF THE SHADOW MOSES INCIDENT WITHOUT ANYONE REALIZING THEY ACTUALLY WERE IN A SHADOW MOSES RECREATION, ACTUALLY BEHAVING LIKE SHADOW MOSES PEOPLE (HOSTAGES, DEAD CELL, SOLIDUS, RUSSIAN SOLDIERS AND RAIDEN) AGAINST THEIR WILL AND TO DO THAT THEY PLANNED AS FAR BACK AS TWO YEARS EARLIER SINKING A TANKER SO THAT BOTH ARSENAL HOUSING GW AND THE BIG SHELL FOR THE EXERCISE COULD BE MADE. THEY CHOSE SHADOW MOSES BECAUSE FOR THEM IT WAS ONE OF THE LESS LIKELY EXPERIENCES TO RECREATE SO THEY COULD STRESS TEST THE AI.

IT BASICALLY WAS THE EQUIVALENT OF RECREATING A VIDEO GAME IN REAL LIFE, ONLY THAT IN THEIR CANON SHADOW MOSES REALLY HAPPENED. USING THE DATA THEY ACQUIRED FROM THE EXERCISE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ARTIFICIALLY RECREATE MORE STUNTS IN ORDER TO DISCREDIT PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THE PATRIOTS AND CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION.

S3 = SELECTION FOR FUCKING SOCIETAL SANITY

>>385593265

Do they? I can't remember MGS 4, it's been too long. All I remember is that Rose 'married' the Colonel to trick the Patroits.

>>385590852
>Big Shell was a terrible location gameplay-wise, I'd rather have a sprawling base like Shadow Moses.
MGS2 has great level design, though.

>>385593240
>>385593316

The game would be so much better without the arm plot.

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>>385591362

>>385593506
I think that was forced in because of how popular Liquid was and it made little sense, and it's not like the explanation we did get really helped it being there

>>385593464

Barely any interesting rooms in MGS2, in my opinion. MGS1 had much more interesting areas, more hidden stuff to find behind non-mandatory rooms etx.

>>385593620
Not really though, both in numbers and exploration.

>>385593609

It's sad because, apart from the arm thing, the rest of MGS2's plot is the good type of convoluted plot, in my opinion. Ocelot is complex enough with his whole quadruple agent thing going on.

>>385593690

I'll grant you the interior areas, but the exterior areas of Big Shell were boring as fuck to traverse.

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Can I play MGS2 without playing MGS1? I got the HD collection thinking MGS1 would be in it. I've already played through 4 chapters of peacewalker and played metal gear rising. I watched someone explain MGS1 story on youtube anyways.

>>385593464
I actually agree. I thought Big Shell was fun as fuck, especially because you could go in a circle to get place to place instead of just backtracking like 1.
Playing through V now and Mother Base is like an even bigger Big Shell.

>>385593620
Maybe aesthetically. In terms of enemy placement and general structure MGS2 is far more stealth-focused and does a better job with complementing its mechanics than any game after it thanks to how densely placed everything is. It's a solid counter to first-person aiming that keeps things fast-paced and relatively tense most of the time.
>>385593506
>>385593609
Liquid was tossed in for the fun of it, which is kind of a shame. I don't think it hurts MGS2 (it's just some flavor weirdness) as much as it hurts MGS4, though. Still, I kind of wish Liquid was left alone.

>>385593379

What was the deal with some people saying La-li-lu-le-lo? It wasn't explained in MGS2.

>>385594002
Those who are affiliated with the Patriots have nanomachines inside them that make them unable to directly refer to the Patriots in conversation

>>385593974
Try to buy the digital code or some shit, assuming you're on PS3.
Legacy collection came with it, someone's probably selling the code online.

>>385593974

You can, but you'll lose half the fun if you don't have the MGS 1 adventures in your head to compare. You can read the 324-screens of story about the Shadow Moses Incident on the Special menu of MGS2 to have a detailed explanation of the events of 1 as well, covering the retcons, like the introduction of the Patriots.

You'd be better off playing MGS3 instead. Wait to play MGS2 and MGS4 after playing 1 and 3.

>>385590525
>wasn't supposed to be sequels

love this meme. it's like people selectively forget there were several plot points that Kojima left open for future games.

>>385593974
yeah you can. mgs 2 is just mgs 1's plot anyway

>>385593620
I think MGS1 has something like sub 20 guards to sneak past, it's really odd.

>>385593506
Agreed. It's not that it detracts from the game but it's dumb. It's also annoying when someone tries to argue that MGS2 has a good story by going "BUT MUH ARM SUBPLOT YO".

>>385590184
raiden is venom solid
trust no one

>>385594286
but many more people bring up the Patriots conversation with Raiden when talking about MGS2's strong points. I haven't met a single person who thought the arm was good

>>385594269
>it's like people selectively forget there were several plot points that Kojima left open
Only for the sake of leaving some mystery for the audience to chew on. MGS2 has a pretty complete story, and Kojima himself stated explicitly that he didn't create MGS2 with a sequel in mind.

>>385594253
Ill look for the screens, I just wanna know more about jack the ripper after rising.

>>385593620
That's literally the point. That's why the Big Shell is a formulaic building comprised of the exact same area repeated 12 times, with all gray undecorated corridors filled with only a few enemies. It's also why the prologue to the game (which was released as a demo disc and the ONLY part of the game shown in marketing) was a sprawling ship comprised of a wide variety of rooms with tons of interactable objects and two whole rooms which solely exist to display that the game can load 100+ independent enemies at once each with their own AI. It was all about contrast, and subverting the player's expectations just as Raiden's reality is torn apart in the game itself. If you felt disappointed by the Big She'll, as the vast majority of the people did when the game released, then you felt the way you were meant to. Please disregard fanboys who will try to defend something that was intentionally created to be disappointing.

>>385594447

>pretty complete story
>"I put a tracker on Liquid Ocelot's RAY, I'll find him. I'll also find the real Patriots and rescue Olga's daughter"

At least three sequel baits in the last minutes alone, one of which is specially clear after the post-credit message about the Patriots.

>>385594513

MGS2 barely touches upon that, despite introducng that storyline. If you like MGR Raiden, you'll really enjoy MGS4 Raiden, but it kinda requires you to play all previus MGS games to be fully appreciated.

>>385594582
>building comprised of the exact same area repeated 12 times
It's really not, though. Even the connecting bridges are different with respect to how you have to navigate them given enemy placement. The Big Shell is visually kind of same-y, but each room is distinct.

>>385594597
Pretty typical "and the adventure continues...!" ending. It's an open ending, sure, but it's very much a complete story. Kojima's comments reaffirm his intentions.

>>385594597
Then why on Earth did Kojima state that MGS2 was the last game, then make 3 a prequel which is completely disconnected from 2, then only make 4 a direct sequel after 7 years of fans wanting more and STILL not have it explain most of the stuff from 2.

>>385594582
You're right, however "its shit on purpose" is not an excuse to make a game shit. Only fucking kids who played mgs2 first think it's the best. The plot is not that complicated.

>>385594857

It felt more sequel bait to me than the ending of MGS1, which had the Solidus reveal and Mr. President being said by Ocelot.

>>385594985

It's like Larry David saying every season that it would be Curb Your Enthusiasm's last season, despite leaving plot points for future use.

>>385595040
>Once again I'd intended for MGS3 to wrap up the series, but so many people wanted to know what happened after "2". Things like the identity of the Patriots and so forth. I had planned on leaving those mysteries as mysteries, but people weren't convinced that the series was wrapped up.
So ultimately we ended up making "4".

>>385595002
I played all the games in order only a few years ago, I have no nostalgia for the franchise, and I appreciate 2 more as a piece of art than I enjoyed it as a game.
>The plot is not that complicated
The plot is intentionally over-complicated an confusing, as again, it's all about conveying how Raiden feels as his reality is ripped apart and everything he thinks he knows is turned upside down.

>>385595269
>and I appreciate 2 more as a piece of art than I enjoyed it as a game.
MGS2 is one of the more compelling games in the series for me, especially Substance. My only gripe is how obtrusive the codec calls can feel on replays. I love it otherwise, especially on higher difficulties.