Fantasy Strike, a game attempting to be an "accessible

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here are controls and you can bind up to jump if you want. I've been having some fun w/ it.

>>385515443
no
it's shite

>>385515518
That yomi counter looks like absolute dogshit.

>>385515614
what don't you like about it?

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>Hard controls are the only thing stopping noobs from having fun!
heh, not on my watch...

If a fighting game is trying to be accessible, it should adhere to the traditions of fighting games so that players who try this easy shit can comfortably transition into the real stuff like SF or guilty gear.

this yomi counter bullshit will just fuck over any player who is interested in playing another fighting game. same with having a fucking jump button.

If someone wants an accessible fighting game, they should just play fucking Super Turbo. It's free forever on fightcade.

No thanks. Mastering inputs and strings gets my dick hard.

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>>385515976
you can get rid of the jump button and just jump like a normal fighting game, thank fuck.

>>385515443
I know youre shilling your game but at least try to be subtle about it.
theres a reason a lot of indie devs dont come to /v/ to do that shit.

>>385515914
Please tell me that is slowed down.

>>385516101
nope, that's how fast it is

>>385516082
I'm not him but I'm a fan

I like those parts about fighting games though.

>>385515914
damn i want to play that cheap whore

>>385516082

>Talking about videogames you like is considered shilling

Holy fuck stop being so paranoid.

Melee is the only good accesible game out there, not complicated combos, but techniques and there is so much freedom of pay that anybody can just create unique combos without even thinking ahead, also the mindgames are way better than in other games.

>>385515651
What should I like about it? Its literally appealing to the lowest common denominator and frankly I'm better than that

>>385516485
Sure buddy
>>385515518
>>385515443
This is definetly not shilling, its not a post made by a random anon.
Its probably one of the devs, which is totally fine by me but still.
shilling is shilling

The worst part about this game is only having three normals, often with one not even being that good and at even pretty far range will turn two into throws.

You give a casual a choice, press the punch button or the big attack with special properties button. They will always default to the special attack cause it appears more useful, which is not helped by some attacks making certain match ups incredibly braindead. This game won't teach new players anything but find your one "good" move and use it all the time

>>385516696
huh? it's not like you'll do one on accident, it's a showoff move to let go of the controls to counter a throw, it means you were really confident in your read

>>385516727
nah I'm just a fan of sirlins
I like the game but I wish it had hi/lo.

>>385516652
>unique combos without even thinking ahead
Yeah that isn't happening unless you are doing the basic shit like stomp into knee. The variables in a melee combo consist of percent, DI, and stage position so you need some real foresight to get some real 'unique' combos going.

Also get out of here with your game having superior guessies when crouching negates the usability of half the moves in the game

I'm actually turned off at how much this game rips off other fighters moves. Like, the ghost dude just straight up repurposes Slayers whole god damn moveset plus Akatsuki's 214B. Like, shit I don't mind references here and there but there's a damn limit to how shameful you can be.

>>385516804
Agreed. Plus every character has ST levels of bullshit but pretty much accessable from the outset. It's like handling a little kid the nuclear launch codes.

>>385516727
you're a class A retard and cancer.

>>385515914
Holy shit, it's so slow and ugly

>>385515914
I mean you lost two rounds to that guy though

>Rising strike 2: The return.
It's going to fail just as hard.

This shit is unoptimized as fuck
Literally 10 FPS
I wonder how shit the netcode is

>>385518532
But anon, this one is even MORE noob friendly

>>385518532
did that game even fail? it just got bought out by riot as far as i know, that's why it disappeared

>>385516950
>guessies
I thought that was just a meme, please dont tell me you call it that. WHY CANT MELEE FAGS JUST SAY THE RIGHT THING LIKE IN FIGHTING GAMES

>>385518602
I'm surprised that was even possible.

>>385518636
True. But before that. It was also a "Pre-alpha" game. Just like this.

I don't get attempts to make accessible fighting games. I am absolutely terrible at fighting games, but inputs and combos are not a problem for me. Fighting games are hard because timing and the need to react quickly to your opponent. If anything, dumbing down the controls would emphasize the part of the genre where I struggle. I feel like they are just made by people who are good at fighting games that forgot why the fighting games are hard to break into.

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>>385515443
Yeah no, I ain't touching that shit.

>>385518971
There's nothing inherently wrong with doing casual and simple fighters. The problem is thinking that that's the only way fighters will be able to progress.

alotta copies

grave: ryu
setsuki: ibuki
rook: zangief
geiger: guile
degrey: slayer

valerie: original
jaina: original
midori: original

>>385518971
Explain how making every tool accessible with a single button doesn't help with timing.

>>385518971
You can't simplify fundamentals without taking away from what makes fighting games fun to play.

Simplifying the controls has the intended goal of letting players focus on their fundamentals. If you're still struggling at that point, the genre might just not be for you.

>>385518971
The idea is too take that worry of timing away so it is just about reacting. Problem is that doesn't work, it gives new players all these tools with no idea how to effectively use or deal with them. Even if you do teach them in panic mode they are gonna slam that DP button.

I think something like this could work, but the idea I came up with is literally just Tekken with less moves.

> I feel like they are just made by people who are good at fighting games that forgot why the fighting games are hard to break into.
It is more people who forgot listening to people who never got good going "I want to do the big combo no fair!"

>>385519629
wait i just realized midori is e. honda and valerie is like 1/2 fei long

>>385515914

This looks fucking retarded.

>>385518582
it uses GGPO

>>385519629
jaina is ken

>>385519784
Every match turns into this very quickly, characters lack ways to deal with shit effectively or can deal with it too easily. It is like high level ST from the get go but no one really knows what they are doing

>>385519740
At least Valerie doesn't straight up steal animations.

>>385519685
I really wish Iwata would've greenlight Harada's original idea for a simplified Tekken on Wii U. That would've gone over a lot better I feel.

>>385519528
I'm not trying to say they are bad. I'm only trying to say they may be missing the point.

>>385519651
>>385519674
I'm sure it would be helpful, but it is also helpful for my opponent too. I'm in essentially the same position as I was before but I can't practice combos to try and make up for my lack of reactions. I would agree that I am not cut out for fighting games, but I just think developers are trying to bring down the wrong barrier. Then again, my barrier is one that probably should not be brought down.

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>>385515518
>Jump bottom
>In a 2D fighting game
I don't even.

>>385519740

Valeria has shades of Millia with her aerial super and just being a hyper mobile slut in general.

>>385520523
You can map it to up if you want.

>>385520551
Millia is pure, NOT a slut

>>385517191
Time dude uses Rugal's Genocide Cutter. It's pretty blatant at times.

I feel like the bigger problem with this sorts of games is lack of options. In tekken even if you're shit, you can slowly learn new moves. Here every match on low level turns into mashing same things until one of you is dead, and it gets samey pretty fast.


>>385519939
Rook in that webm doesn't use half of his moves. You can easily deal with this shitshow when you're comfortable with your character.

>>385520294
If you remove reactions, you're left with Toribash, or Yomi (the card game from the same dev as FS)

>>385520523
You can map it to up.

Rook is top tier as fuck. 2 hit armor, 2 damage single button SPD, armored rush attack, dude has an answer for basically everything.

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Everything about the game just feels very arbitrary and too caught up in justifying the shitty control scheme.

>No crouching
>That means no high/low mix ups
>That also means no blocking while standing still
>Specials do completely different things in the air except when they don't
>Throw breaks don't exist so the winner of a throw clash is determined at random because according to the creator people throwing at the same time "never happens"
>Only three normals
>No dashing
>a fucking jump button instead of a second button for normals that might give the game some more options and character
>Damage is completely unintuitive. Not-Slayer can take 3 health from a jump in but Valerie's multihit moves usually do one a piece

>>385520117
I think really to be done a game has to be built from the ground up around it.

The real sticking point for me is in fighting games you need lots of options but casuals struggle to comprehend that. Even without motions some people's brain just shuts off when they have to choose what to do. This is why overwatch did well, low amount of options with obvious use but that doesn't really work in a fighting game cause you are always in close proximity having to deal with shit.

Part of me says fuck appealing to casuals and just make games till one hits it right, 90% of why DBFZ is getting so much hype is IP alone. Though they also simplified the game in some okay ways.

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>>385521083
>Throw breaks don't exist so the winner of a throw clash is determined at random because according to the creator people throwing at the same time "never happens"
>Only three normals
It's worse than I thought, impressive

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>>385518532
>>385518636
The team behind Rising Thunder was indeed bought out by Riot, and we've not heard from them since.

Rising Thunder also attempted to simplify fighting games, but it still left many of the same trappings. You have one-button specials and supers, but you could choose different variants on those specials to create a personal loadout. You could also pick one of two different subsystems: Kinetic Advance (FADC cancel) or Kinetic Deflect (burst/combo breaker). There were three normals (L,M,H), and specials worked on a cooldown system to prevent spamming.

Rising Thunder simplified the controls, but it didn't simplify the combos and overall execution required to be successful, and it definitely simplified neither to the wild degree that Fantasy Strike currently does.

>>385521083
no blocking while standing still? what does this mean and why does it follow from no high/low

>>385518971
>I don't get attempts to make accessible fighting games.
The fighting game genre has a notoriously high barrier of entry. It's not just controls and learning basic movements and motions, but it's also about learning the fundamentals and core conceits of how to handle yourself in a fighting game. Shit like
>What's important about positioning?
>What's a mixup? How do I do them?
>What do I watch out for?
is super important, but you'd be surprised how much the games don't explain this stuff. That aside, simplifying the controls is a much easier endeavor, as that's still one of the biggest barriers of entry ("lel what's a quarter-circle? Fuck that"). That's what games like this and Rising Thunder (>>385521261) attempted.

>>385521429
Crouch blocking means holding down-back, so you stop moving and block low. Standing block in your average fighting game just means holding back, which also means moving backwards until you're put in a flinch animation or blockstun.

>>385521509
oh, got it

>>385521485
The new Under Night actually explains those concepts, which I'm really happy about.

>>385518636

Not fail financially or anything (They got bought by Riot, after all ) but I do think Rising Thunder failed to be a casual fighting game.

Simplifying the control scheme didn't make the game any easier for casuals who still got wrecked by zoning, long combos, FADC foolishness, etc. It was basically SFIV without motions and I wouldn't consider that game particularly casual friendly.

Why is Fantasy Strike wanting 500k when Boundy Battle looks better, the controls aren't shit and wants 30k?

>>385521261
I like what RT did more than this but I still have issues, especially with the cooldowns. Either they were too short to matter which did lead to spamming, or you'd lose a move when in a normal game you wouldn't or could mitigate it through tricks like charge partitioning.

I think it is just the nature of games like these to lack variety, they are easy to figure out and everything is way too controlled. SFV has this same issue, few are coming up with crazy never seen before combos it all feels planned. All RT can offer is a shittier SF4.

>>385521083
>No crouching
There are some moves that go low and allow you to dodge "high" moves.

>That means no high/low mix ups
Mix ups would turn this game from casual fighter into casual hell.

>No dashing
again why complicate a game that supposed to be simple.


>Throw breaks don't exist so the winner of a throw clash is determined at random because according to the creator people throwing at the same time "never happens"
Now this is sad.

>Damage is completely unintuitive. Not-Slayer can take 3 health from a jump in but Valerie's multihit moves usually do one a piece
This so fucking much. So many times I had 3 hit combos that do one damage for no apparent reason.

>>385521783
Some recent fighting games, most notably Skullgirls, Killer Instinct, and Guilty Gear Xrd, do go over those concepts, and that's amazing of them. It's still unfortunate how much other games leave this stuff out. The most unfortunate example is Street Fighter V, arguably the most important game in the scene; its tutorial is fucking shit.

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>>385515443
>>385515518
Not even for free

>>385515443
Fighting games are not hard because of the controls. Its like saying that the most important thing in arena-fps is aim.

>>385521874
>It was basically SFIV without motions and I wouldn't consider that game particularly casual friendly.
Which is funny as SF4 did amazingly well with casuals.

Really if we look at T7 is a very complex game, NRS games have so much bullshit in them they are incredibly unfriendly yet it is SFV which unperformed.

>>385520862
>Rook in that webm doesn't use half of his moves. You can easily deal with this shitshow when you're comfortable with your character.
This. That Rook was playing like shit. Either jump -> special 2 to knock her down from full screen, or just armor through her shit.

>>385522018

SFIV did well with casuals because it was a game that was long awaited and had some good launch content to back it up as well as an arcade release to peep while you waited.

I don't think I could teach ANYONE in my circle of friends how to FADC.

>>385522168
Street Fighter IV was the game that singlehandedly revived fighting games as a genre. No shit it'd be popular with casuals.

>>385522168
>SFIV did well
I didn't say it did well because it was complex, just that games do well despite that and attempting to make it less complex doesn't generate sales.

Basically, complexity shouldn't be take into consideration in trying to get casuals on board cause it doesn't seem to have any effect.

> had some good launch content to back it
That is just straight up untrue, it had ass content compared to stuff like Tekken or Mk games before it

>arcade release to peep while you waited.
That didn't really effect the casual market and FGC would buy it anyway

>>385522004
On a casual level? No.
If you want to play rankeds? Yes. There is a reason why SF 101 is to learn how to consistently throw fireballs from both sides.

>>385522004
Controls, like aim, may not be the hardest part of their respective genres, but they are the most important at a base level. If you can't aim in an arena FPS, you will be sucked. Likewise, if you can't consistently do your motions/jump cancels/whateverthefuck, you're not going anywhere.

I think Sirlin doesn't realize that bad players or casuals or whatever want cool characters and animations. In a way, Fantasy strike is a casual game aimed at a hardcore audience and manages to alienate both.

>>385522443
>If you want to play rankeds? Yes.
If you just learnt no motions but just how to space with normals and punish shit (unoptimally of course) you can beat most bronze shitters who just throw out crap.

We need more games like Clash of Ninja if anything. Fun, casual 3D fighter but can still be played at a higher level.

>>385522661
Yeah, and then you have to learn motions. So instead of playing the game, you spend hours in training mode. Arena shooters don't have this sudden learning curve.

a good argument vs simplifying controls is virtual on and gundam versus. the gundam games absolutely play easier than virtual on, but are still complex in their own way.

>>385523369
>Arena shooters don't have this sudden learning curve.
They do, but it becomes mostly reading shit rather than practicing. Which if anything is way more dull

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>>385523398
Remember when Namco tried to give us a Gundam Versus-esque game of our own?

Reminder that the Arcana Hearts 3 kickstarter has more money than the Fantasy Strike fig campaign. I really have to wonder how Sirlin feels about this.

>>385523398
They are also nearly completely different types of games. You may learn the concepts of a fighting game from them but that is about it.

This thread makes me miss all those cool, weird fighting games from the 90s like Waku Waku 7 or Fighters History, with the crunchy hit sounds and colorful, lively animations. I have WW7 for the Saturn, but my god those fucking load times are horrid.

>>385523556
That Kickstarter is literally to port an arcade game to PC, while undoubtedly it will be ported to consoles free of charge. Think about the implications.

>>385523369

>Spending hours in training mode to learn motions

And you act like spending hours improving at a game is wasting your time. Do you think NBA players think practicing three pointers isn't worth it?

>>385521083
Worse thing is this WTF damage system.
>Break it up into easy to understand chunks so newbes can get how squishy or tanky someone is.
>Doesn't even matter at the end of the day as hitting someone with the same attacks if they have 8 chunks or 5 chunks seems to take away an equal amount of 'health' by %.
What the fuck is wrong with this crap?

>>385523995
It's no different than variable health values really. And the multihit stuff is there for black damage I think, where blocked multihit moves do a lot more "chip damage" than single hit moves. At least that's what I figured.

>>385515651
Unless there's a window after hitting a button/direction within which a throw can't be yomi countered, I can just tap downback SF4 crouch tech style and get out of pressure for free.

>>385518636
Rising Thunder was completely dead weeks before Riot bought it
It was a hilarious failure

>>385518971
Well yeah, that's how it would work for some players. Easier execution doesn't mean easier per se, but it let's beginners do the cool looking stuff without effort.

Also I'm not sure if most people are like this but for me execution errors feel the most annoying of all mistakes, even though that's not necessarily my weakest point. If I get wrecked because I made a dumb decision or didn't react quickly enough, that feels legit, but if I accidentally jump into enemy's attack while trying to do a super because my thumb slightly grazed "up" in the d-pad while doing back-forward motion I feel really pissed. And I have always had abysmal reactions so a little bit of emphasis on execution should help me if anything so it's not about winning or losing really.

>>385523995
>>Doesn't even matter at the end of the day as hitting someone with the same attacks if they have 8 chunks or 5 chunks seems to take away an equal amount of 'health' by %.
uh no? the same hits take away the same chunks no matter who its against. there is no % damage.

>>385523491
You don't need to read shit until you decide to go from being gud to being semi-pro.

>>385523754
It is when there are other games that don't require this level of commitment.

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pick jaina

>>385521083
I mean you aren't wrong, but I don't know what your problem is with a jump button

I'm sure 99% of the target audience is people who don't have a fight stick or a controller, and of those with a controller doesn't smash have a jump button?

if they are playing on keyboard, up is basically a jump button. ASD + space is comfy on a keyboard for emulating it

I'm trying to use my Dualshock 3 and it does not recognize for some reason, even with a program that emulates the xbox controller, any way to fix it?

>>385527656
Like you load up the game and can't move cursor, or it doesn't work in button config?

>>385527881

It doesn't recognize the controller, I can't move the menus with it (only with the keyboard) I will get my old pad and try to see if it works

>>385528034
Go to options and try to map buttons. Should fix it. At least it worked for me with my stick.

Sounds like shit

>>385528184

But are you using scptools or motion joy? Or it worked directly without any special stuff?

>>385515443
>Pre-Alpha games have "free" weekends
Remember when developers didn't ask you to pay money to test their unfinished games for them?

>>385528238
My stick has XBOX pad mode, but I still had to go to button config first.

>>385528440
No. It's not a new thing, been doing that shit for decades. It's only been getting more popular because it's a lot easier to manage and get feedback.

>>385528440
loketest

>>385526396

Smash's jump button actually serves a purpose.

>>385528440
>paying for people to test your game when you could get the testers to pay you instead
upgrade to a capitalist mentality

>>385524967
>but it let's beginners do the cool looking stuff without effort.
Which isn't a good thing. First it makes those combos less interesting, everyone can do it and you'll see it all the time. Also meaning the game has fuck all to explore. Second it means that even at low level you will face high damage, this means you get less time in a match, so less time to learn and increases the chances of players being stressed so doing something rash. Third it means instead of slowly getting an understanding for the game and the systems they jump in the deep end straight away.

It is like if everyone in baseball could always hit homeruns, it wouldn't help beginners

> execution errors feel the most annoying of all mistakes
Then you are never going to improve, execution isn't the focus of any new players in any game. You go for the easier combos and improve over time.

>>385527656
from the OP.

>You can play with a USB controller but the button setup is weird because it's not fully coded yet. Press and hold two buttons on the controller on any menu and you can assign the buttons to ps4 buttons.

>>385528440
sirlin's closer to 'one guy who hired a programmer and an artiste to help him make a game' than an actual company

>>385529403

I tried to do so. It does not recognize the dualshock 3 at all

Weird as fuck

Setsuki is fun as hell to play at least. It's Ibuki in Super Turbo but somehow even more bs.

>>385529775
She is like MvCi X 10 level of rip off
https://twitter.com/defunctzone/status/891067144892334081

>>385525905
>>385515914
>>385516076
What a garbage health system

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>>385525597
>It is when there are other games that don't require this level of commitment.

>Plays League of Legends six times a day every day just to grind for free currency to unlock 1% of the game's content and get better
>Plays The Witcher 3 for 100 hours going through the story and finishing all the side quests then doing it all again on a higher difficulty
>Plays Persona 5 while filling the compendium and maxing out all social links after three weeks of play time
>Plays Breath of the Wild and finds all 900 Korok seeds and then starts a new file to take a different route and abandon a month's work of gameplay
>Plays Pokemon and breeds a full 31 IV super team with perfect natures, egg moves, and hidden abilities after breeding non stop for three weeks
>Plays Hearthstone to grind gold and dust to make the best deck possible to climb the ladder and redoing it all again when a new patch or expansion comes out
>Plays New Vegas and turns the entire map over to find every secret and runs multiple characters with different builds forever
>Plays TF2 for 1200 hours learning the best class loadouts and techniques in order to win games

>Refuses to spend a few hours a day for a week in training mode to get good at fighting games

>>385530163
But those games let me win and do the big cool attacks with the click of the button! Let me do the biggest cool thing NOW!

honestly grinding combos is the part i like most of fighting games, when I know a game too well it is less interesting to me

>>385515614
That¡s actually the most intelligent decision: having one button specials would have opened the door for broken throw-tech/reversal OSs, so having throw breaks be in direct opposition to other buttons fixes that problem.

I unironically think yall are too stupid to understand the design decisions being made in this game. For example: >>385515614

>>385515443
So it's basically Lag Fighter 8 but worse?

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>>385530556
Nobody cares you hick.
The game looks like shit no matter how you try to spin it.

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What do you think is the best fighter ever made?

Also, ignoring the game being ugly as shit, why did SSF2T HD remix bomb? Were the balance changes not well received?

>>385530938
Probably because HD Remix was also ugly as shit.

>>385530938
I'm a 3D fightan fag, and this is just my opinion, but it's a tie between VF2 and T5DR for me.

This is a fun game, even playing on keyboard, I love fighting games so much but I'm a scrub because I have no time to pratice. A casual fightan like this is something I wanted. Thanks for shilling your game here, OP

>>385515443
>"accessible fighting game"
Is that normie-speak for casual?

>Go to do practice mode and check out controls
>It puts me in an online game without asking even though I never tried to get in one when I haven't set up controls

Sorry to the guy who just bodied an enemy not even fighting back

>>385531476
Yes. This is how they try to "capture a wide audience."

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>>385515518
>Literally SSMB with a SF coatpaint

>>385530163
All of your examples are wrong.

I can get better at last hitting in MOBA games while playing it.
I can get better at rhythm games while going from easy tracks to hard
I can get better at any shooter while playing it.
I can get better at racing game while playing it.
I can get better at card game while playing it.

I HAVE to grind practice mode in fighting game to get better at it. You literally can't practice anything beyond fundamentals in a real match.

And grinding practice mode is not fun if you're not a fan of a genre.

>>385530376
More or less, yes. I'd say Katarina in tekken is a good example of a casual character that can make players invest enough time to be interested at actually getting gud.

>>385530057
DeGrey is x100 worse. Did Sirlin really think people wouldn't recognize Slayers most iconic moves?

>>385531591
>You literally can't practice anything beyond fundamentals in a real match.
that isn't true, you can totally practice combos while playing. In fact it is an important part of learning to do them in a real match

>I'd say Katarina in tekken is a good example of a casual character
But the easy combo she has is way lower damage than her other stuff, she has way more stuff that is more like normal characters. Basically mashing 4 with her is not different from doing the smaller combos in most games

>if you're not a fan of a genre.
Well there is your issue, you don't like fighting games. This is like playing CoD and going remove the guns to appease me

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>>385531591
>Katarina
Which is basically an auto combo, just as useless as well. Loads of games have that now while also being normal fighting games with all the options and complexities.

>>385531981
Just wanted to add that just playing the game can help you familiarize yourself with your character and even other characters on a deeper level than just doing stuff in practice mode. Weird situations, interactions, set ups, and other bullshit that you discover just through playing.

>>385529079
I didn't imply it wouldn't have any negatives. But let's compare beginners playing Street Fighter and playing Smash for the first time. With which game they are more likely to have more fun? With Street Fighter they probably can do most special attacks but unreliably which discourages them from using them, supers/ultras are probably not going to be used at all. So it's almost all just boring normal kicks and punches and no fancy combos to speak off. Whereas with Smash they will be able to do all the special attacks instantly with ease. Makes for a better party game. It's just that it would be cool if there'd be fighting games of that type besides one revolving around Nintendo characters.

>if somebody finds execution errors the most annoying type of mistake, they are never going to improve because execution isn't important for new players

?????

>>385531903
I think sirlin is so far deep inside his head about the "design" and "gameplay" that things like "characters" and "animations" are mere afterthoughts to him. He doesn't think that people won't recognize it; he thinks that they won't care.

He really needs a partner to help him in the areas where he has shortcomings.

>>385532169
Doubly true for Tekken, the most random positioning and characters on certain stages can lead to super specific stuff that you'll only find through playing.

>>385529079
>>385532202
Also de-emphasizing execution de-emphasizes the importance of time spent in practice room which most people find duller than real matches.

>>385515443
Accessible won't ever get the casual audience to stay once they discover they can't just mash to victory.

>>385532202
There are tons of smash clones dude.
Playstation All Star Battle
Rivals of Aether
Brawlhalla
and I'm sure there's plenty of others as well.

Rivals of Aether is actually somewhat popular as a smash clone.

>>385532202
>more likely to have more fun?
Completely depends on the player. But the easy answer is both are well liked by casuals, in fact many fighting games. Injustice having inputs didn't stop it selling a biggilion copies.

>>385532384
>which most people
Strange then that SF4, a game where lab time was important was a massive hit. Seems like you are just talking out your ass.

>>385532169
This game is actually a decent example of that. For example, not!Slayers ghost and his forward Attack can stop not!Ibuki Special 1 for free, and I just got that by playing online.

>>385515443
Rising Thunder was fun is this atleast fun as that?

>>385519629
Jaina is Mina

>>385532202
>if somebody finds execution errors the most annoying type of mistake, they are never going to improve because execution isn't important for new players
He is saying you refuse to focus on the right thing and will never get past that cause you want to be good now. Casuals only say they want no execution cause they think that the neutral is very easy to pick up and learn. It isn't.

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>>385532440
This.
As long as someone is better than you at how and when to press buttons, fighting games will never get that giant wave of casual players.

>>385532540
Ah OK never heard of those but maybe they have some value. Though I wasn't thinking about games that are super similar to Smash per se, just simple fighting games with easy execution in general. I played Naruto Gekitou Ninja Taisen 2 like over 10 years ago when I was a mild Narutard and it being a Naruto game aside, it was a really nice fighting game that fit the bill as well. Again the Naruto theme kinda limits audience whereas games like Street Fighter, Tekken and Soul Calibur probably have a wider appeal in terms of aesthetics.

Hey, neat. Let's see what all the fuss is about and if my PC can run it.

>>385532991
>he assumes that I mainly focus on execution

Well if he did that he just pulled it out of his ass. I only said that I personally tend to be more annoyed by execution mistakes, which happen at all levels, whatever your focus is, than by being punished of dumb decisions.

>>385531981
>that isn't true, you can totally practice combos while playing. In fact it is an important part of learning to do them in a real match
Yes. After you've spend hours learning it in practice against a dummy. You can't just pick a combo and practice it blindly in a real match if you're a beginner player.

>This is like playing CoD and going remove the guns to appease me
No, it like removing bunnyhopping from Quake. Or getting rid of basebuilding in Warcraft 3. You see what I'm getting at?

>Well there is your issue, you don't like fighting games
I like fighting games, but I lack skill or dedication to pull off even simple combos without long term commitment into boring dummy grinding.

>>385532160
I'm not trying to defend FS, I think it lacks depth to be interesting in a long term even for casual players. But lack of any barrier of entry makes it much more inviting than any other proper fighting game.

>>385533846
>I like fighting games, but I lack skill or dedication to pull off even simple combos without long term commitment into boring dummy grinding.

So you expect it to be handed to you?

>>385515518

>yomi counter: do nothing
>do nothing

Casuals will get fucked

So how do I like not refight people or find a next opponent after a game? Leaving the timer to move on put me in another game with the same guy when I wanted to go back to practice mode. Doesn't seem to be any option to not refight or find a new guy

>>385515914
>>385516076
Why does it looks so slow

>>385532278
It's honestly disgusting. I'm not against references, but this shit is straight up copying stuff. I thought Kolin was bad, but this (and Icons) is way worse.

>>385532707
>Strange then that SF4, a game where lab time was important was a massive hit. Seems like you are just talking out your ass.

Well it is definitely a common answer when people are asked why they don't like fighting games to say that they feel like they have to spend lots of time in practice room grinding combos. I don't claim to have done any serious research into this but I would be very surprised if it turned out that most people don't find lab time more boring that matches. There are many other factors to SF4's popularity than it's lab-heaviness, of course.

But maybe it's not so much relevant who is exactly in the majority here, rather than the fact that it is certainly common opinion at the least and making lab-light fighting games could broaden the audiences of the genre.

>>385533846
>spend hours
This is at best true for some of the hardest stuff in some games. No, especially at low level you don't need to go into training mode to practice shit for hours, you don't even need 10 minutes. Plus yes you could pick a combo and practice it only in a real match

>You see what I'm getting at?
You didn't help your point at all, lets remove aspects people enjoy just to appease me. You can see from the fig campaign how little anyone actually cares

>but I lack skill or dedication
Then you are never going to get good anyway. Every aspect of a fighting game takes dedication, if you won't learn a basic combo you aren't gonna learn the deeper aspects or frame data.

I think the best way to draw in casuals is to remove any and all thought from fighting games. Pure reactions. The game will give you button prompts to follow that will automatically hit your opponent if you correctly input them in the allotted time.
No execution, no timing, no fundamentals, no actual fighting.

>>385534024
This.

Button mashing got associated with niggas who only play once a month for a reason.

>>385534313
> a common answer when people are asked why they don't like fighting games
That is like asking me why don't you like mobas, I just hate the genre so it shouldn't be made to cater for me. It is a throwaway excuse with little thought put into it. You can't and shouldn't attempt to please everyone, this is why western games are so bland these days.

>here are many other factors to SF4's popularity than it's lab-heaviness, of course.
And it did not hurt the popularity. Neither did it hurt Injustice or Tekken.

>making lab-light fighting games could broaden the audiences of the genre.
They haven't so far, in fact SFV being simpler has only hurt the genre.

>>385531591
No you HAVE to grind combos because other people that play the game actually enjoy playing it, something that already makes them better then you by 100 miles.

If you don't think you can git gud at fighters JUST by playing against other people you clearly have no interest in them anyways.

So rock guy v slayer the clock sales man. How do I beat him just throwing clock then hitting me when I hit the clock or jump spin through it?

>>385535572
You should practice it in training mode

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>>385535740
>practice it in training mode

>>385535572
you can clap the clock to destroy it

>muh motion training
I could do 20+ fireballs on akuma in T7 after like 10 mins of training and started getting 4 electrics in rows after 30 mins. And T7 is p. much my first real fighter and on top of all that I am using xbox "the-horrible-dpad 360" controller. But no matter how good I am at motions it doesnt help me to read my opponents or win at footsies/spacing.

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>every try at making fighting games "casual-oriented" has been either a disaster or sold way below expectations (SFV)
>meanwhile T7, one of the fighters with the most insane execution requirement to become good in the current market, is topping sales charts

"i'm bad at fgs because quarter circles are outdated mechanics" is just an excuse casuals use to avoid facing the fact that they don't like that fgs will always require a huge investment in them to be able to be good at the game, and that the difference in skill is always very obvious and harsh in them
it doesn't matter if cr light to st medium to qcb 2 buttons has a 1 frame window or is done by mashing square, if you aren't interested in investing yourself in the genre, no "cut corners" by the dev will give you that

t7 and ij2 understand that getting the casual public is much simplier, it's by giving them constant content for them to fuck around. t7 has silly cosmetibles that are very easy to get and a mode where you can use them and throw pizzas as heihachi dressed as a magical girl, ij2 has characters that can lvlup and use equipment, they also feature solid single player content (although ij2 is better on that regard) and a solid package around it (ij2's character banter during clashes)
smash is the biggest and best exemple of this, with various stages, hazards, mode and items where everyone can just massacre their controller and have fun at the silliness

sfv was extremely streamlined and casualized but casuals shat on it because the only "content" they had was farming a broken survival mode for alt colors or facing people over and over and get most likely wrecked
fantasy strike is fucked

>>385534708
>That is like asking me why don't you like mobas, I just hate the genre so it shouldn't be made to cater for me. It is a throwaway excuse with little thought put into it. You can't and shouldn't attempt to please everyone, this is why western games are so bland these days.

I was obviously thinking of people who find other aspects of fighting games appealing but don't like the prospect of spending hours in practice room.
Soul Calibur, while not quite the "pick up and play" kind of game Smash is due to the large amount of moves, isn't a practice room heavy in terms of grinding combos at least. Was that series a mistake in your opinion?

>And it did not hurt the popularity. Neither did it hurt Injustice or Tekken.

Who knows whether those games are more, equally or less popular on alternate timelines where they were made less lab-heavy.

>They haven't so far, in fact SFV being simpler has only hurt the genre.
It's not obvious to me that this is the case either. Though I'm not a fan of Tekken, SF etc. trying too hard to cater to casuals and beginners, I'd rather have new franchises to aim for that.

>>385536349
That's what I was doing yes. He then walks forward, uses a long range normal to hit me. If I spin to win, he uses his kick. If I do nothing, he just continues spamming until I'm forced to do something and punishes it. All my other buttons don't help

>pre-Alpha free weekend
For what purpose

>>385515443
Fuck you and fuck your dumb down shit, get good or get out, fucking deal with it and stop trying to ruin fighters further.

>>385536830
free advertizment

>>385536956
>proud of being able to wiggle a stick
grats

>>385536830
To build hype and likely test net code for future betas. Unfortunately nobody really gives a shit about this game.

>>385536560
>smash is the biggest and best exemple of this, with various stages, hazards, mode and items where everyone can just massacre their controller and have fun at the silliness

And was also an attempt at making a "casual-oriented" fighting game and succeeded at it, refuting the first green line in your post.

>>385536830
both testing and propaganda

>>385536823
think you use your armor to go through it and throw him

West cant make a good fighting game

>>385537083
That just gets me hit by both the projectile and his normal, breaking the armor and making me take 2 damage for no reason.
This is the only matchup in the game I'm struggling with so far because any choice I make just gets me punished. And even when I luck out and get in, he just pops his special to walk out for what may as well be free since meter goes up over time in this.

>>385536560
While for a beginner the movement and execution is awkward, I wouldn't describe the execution requirement for Tekken at the highest level insane exactly. The insane aspect of Tekken is the knowledge requirement, IMO.

>>385536823
oh, then the is games busted and shit. stop playing rook because clockman and arrowoman are 10-0 matchups

>>385537023
>Being proud that you can't follow a few relative basic commands
Hey, faggot likely burn in the early 2000s, how about exerting something that we use to call 'effort' now try not to get triggered when I say that word I know you pieces of shit chimp out whenever someone calls you out on being lazy pieces of shit, but maybe, just maybe, they're onto something.

>>385536560
How hard is T7 in execution compared to let's say Guilty Gear or Blazblue?

>>385537385
Then clearly you need to think of a completely different approach.
Have you tried baiting?

>>385521083
No Guilty Gear game besides Accent Core has throw clash breaks either. Xrd giving you whatever normal you threw with if you both throw the same frame (oh wait whatever normal you option selected with) is probably the dumbest fucking way to do it and still not even a big deal.

>>385537385
http://forums.fantasystrike.com/t/matchup-rook-vs-geiger/259/11

>>385537534
Tekken plays like Ramlethal from Xrd. Strings are fairly easy to do and input buffering makes timing not big deal.
When you start to get into character specific techniques and advanced movement is when the execution ramps up.

>>385515443
Got the dragon guy to level 2 and the game is alright, but I already feel myself missing combos. Sure I could play the rekka character, but I don't give a shit about high numbers. It just feels like there's no options. The characters are split between half original and half blatant copies. Like the ghost guy and the clockwork guy. Obviously based on Slayer and Guile/Nash respectively. Then you have characters like the painter girl or the wind guy who seem kinda original with some inspiration thrown in.

I don't like the huge windows on throws and how they beat out a lot of normals. I feel like half of my wins were because I went to press the normals button and threw the guy from half screen because he used a slide or something and my normal turned into a throw. I don't like how specials are so very 2 dimensional. Each one has like one use and it's super telegraphed. I was countering like a fucking maniac because my parry special had a huge window and moves were hella telegraphed.

The game feels alright to play, but it quite obviously needs work and they may want to add some more complexity even though I know the whole idea is to be simple. It may be too simple.

>>385536956
>>385537486
what the game is proving is that 'get good' should be about how to outsmart the opponent, not how to do special moves. you're literally proud of waggling a stick and you get mad when someone invented a game that doesn't test that skill.

>>385537040
i probably should have precised in the last decade for better accuracy
but while smash did have success while not even being designed as a fighting game, it clearly didn't do so just because you needed to press Up and B to get a move at the same time only, it was the fun items, the variety of stages (for the time), brawl even had a gigantic single player mode that got a huge focus during development and had a lot of success and naturally, the hilarious idea of nintendo chars beating the shit out of each other
the point isn't that casualizing fgs is doomed to failure, but thinking it's the only factor to get a casual audience is a very stupid misunderstanding, and is fucking over a lot of devs

>>385537402
i'd say mastering movement alone is already harder than all of sfv, but you're right, learning everything tekken has to offer takes a fuckload of time

>>385537829
go play rock paper scissors

>>385537574
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to bait a guy who punishes me if I jump, press any buttons or do anything at all who is constantly stood at just the right range where I can't actually do anything safely. He even eats my super for free since he never uses any moves that can be punished with it and his kick trades favoribly with it.

>>385537707
All this really amounts to is them saying ''Hope he's so absurdly bad you can bully him all the way across the screen within the 20 or so seconds it takes for him to get his super''. Not really realistic to assume the enemy is that bad.

>>385537829
If you can't outsmart AND pull off special moves, then you're scum in my eyes, lowering standards might appeal to you, but I prefer the things I like to not be shamelessly degraded like you Americans love to do.

>>385537730

Yes, instead of a useless jumping button, they should have put a grab button

>>385523398
Virtual On's controls are only that way because the arcade hardware was too shit to control reliably with one stick.

>>385536560
Your argument is bullshit and you know it. 90% of people have always bought Tekken to button mash, and because Tekken has 100s of random moves and all close up fighting it's a super mashing friendly game no matter how technical it is at the upper level.

>>385538075
Rock Paper Scissors is a turn based game with no positioning or progression my mongoloid dude

>>385534324
>you don't even need 10 minutes
sure if we're talking about 3 hit bnb combos.

>You didn't help your point at all, lets remove aspects people enjoy just to appease me. You can see from the fig campaign how little anyone actually cares
Let's add things just to appease you, then. You can see from number of players in GG how little anyone actually cares.

>Then you are never going to get good anyway
What if I want to have F U N?

>>385535327
No, you HAVE to grind combos because fighting games are dead, and "casual" level of playing requires you to have a good basic knowledge of the genre.

That is why, along with low execution barrier at beginner levels T7 is popular right now. There is enough shitters to play with even if you're not interested in hitting the lab.

>>385538075
I'd play it if I could choose a chick with a huge rack as my character

>>385538401
you can position your hand in the shape of a rock, a piece of paper, or a set of scissors

Is it possible to play against a friend online?

>>385538746
no.

>>385536590
>who find other aspects of fighting games appealing
Yet know nothing about them. You can't just remove every other aspect cause you think you might like one part of it and expect the game to work. Plus this idea of getting rid of practice is pure bollocks, even this game requires some to figure out how to counter stuff.

>isn't a practice room heavy in terms of grinding combos at least
You don't actually know much about SC, there is plenty of grind needed to properly play. Any game you can pick up and mash at a casual level

>Who knows
I do, I gave you an example where making it more casual did not work. You have a bunch of maybes with nothing to back it up

>>385537040
Apart from Smash is incredibly technical

What you are describing is a low skill floor

>>385515976
telling people to go to fightcade. very nice advise but saying st is accessible is extremely wrong st has like very very tight inputs and you have kara cancel just to cancel into super or specials if you hit light punch more than 2 times (renda cancelling) I play 3rd strike there almost daily and play it with my 3s friends its really really tight and regular st players like do sf4 like combos with that tight system and if you go even a little deeper st is harder execution wise very large hutboxes make it worse

>>385538460
>sure if we're talking about 3 hit bnb combos.
Which is all they need, but even outside of that it won't take time for casuals.

>You can see from number of players in GG how little anyone actually cares.
This would work, if complex fighting games didn't sell and casualised ones fail
>but smash
good movement alone in smash destroys your hand

>What if I want to have F U N?
People do have fun doing that, fighting games aren't for everyone and they don't need to be. Stuff like MKX already sells 5 million +

>>385517817
How is he a "Class A retard" for calling OP a shill? We do that all the time for shill threads.

You calling him "cancer" makes me believe you don't visit here often either.

A lot of us post here roughly 12 hours a day, every day and have been doing so for many years.

It's easy to spot shills, based on their sentence structure and thread intentions alone.

> [Game X], a [genre description] with [player benefit] is [promotion description and dates]

is literally the shilliest sounding post ever.

>Setsuki is literally Ibuki
>same pose as Ibuki
>same moves as Ibuki, down to the air kunai and command grab that's not actually a grab
>even has the fucking glide

How is this even allowed?

>>385537829
>outsmart the opponent,
But the game just turns into can this character deal with my very easy to do bullshit? Everything in the game is so abusable given the right match up very little thinking goes in.

People who don't play fighting games have this idea the neutral is some complex problems where people are doing sums in their head and forming plans by the second. Really it is just having a plan for every situation and executing it when it comes about. If you are trying to outsmart someone on the fly it mans your planned fucked up and you don't recognize theirs.

>>385530938
Melty

Played a little last night.
Net code felt really janky, and certain things like the wind guy's wind thing and a lot of the painter chicks stuff caused very noticeable frame drops, even after I dropped it to medium.
Game looks like absolute shit, and I'm a little miffed that one of the characters takes a whole lot of shit wholesale from Slayer. Aping shit from other games this blatantly ain't a good look.
And most importantly, the sheer lack of options that you have at any given time makes the game feel incredibly shallow.

>>385531591
grinding combos is like one of the best part due to my region I hardly got to play sfiv I thought it would be like ggpo but no sfiv netcode was really really bad but I still have it pirated now and I just go in training mode and play it for hours sometime specially when I am waiting for something links actually happening have really good odd satisfying feeling.
And also combos come naturally like the examples you posted you start with hitconfirms than you go from their you don't start directly with fadc and to some extent you do have to grind certain patterns by constantly restarting in rhythm games you just pulled it out of your ass because of your casualness

>>385539293
>Which is all they need
So, a FS game essentially?

>This would work, if complex fighting games didn't sell and casualised ones fail
KoF is a complex game. GG is a complex game. Many other anime fighters are complex. Where are they?
Popular games sold well because of the brand, or excessive ad campaigns, or in case of injustice and MK because of good SP mode. Still somehow none of them have big MP audiences. Which makes fighting game a genre you have to get into, instead of something to pick up and play.

>fighting games aren't for everyone and they don't need to be
Rocket League is not for everyone, it has high skill ceiling, but somehow they have 40k players right now, while tekken barely have 5k.

>>385540578
Rocket league is a team game

>>385540578
>Still somehow none of them have big MP audiences.
You're full of shit. Literally every other game except KoF still has a strong player base.

>>385540578
>So, a FS game essentially?
No, cause not only does it lack combo variety for simple combos but it has nothing to advanced to or please better players. Normal fighting games offer both and more.

You aren't even arguing your original point cause it has fallen apart

>Where are they?
You haven't been following this thread at all. It is not that complexity sells it is that it doesn't stop sales yet casualisation kills sales. Making the games less complex will do literally nothing for gaining a big casual audience that will stay around, SF4 was the game to get fighting games going again in a big way and was incredibly complex require plenty of lab time.

Complexity has not hurt sales, casualisation has hurt sales cause it in part has caused the horrible image with SFV.

>none of them have big MP audiences.
Big enough and growing, they don't need as many as other genres cause it isn't a team game

>Rocket League is not for everyone
Great, it doesn't need to be RL or as popular. This is like saying every other sport should change cause the NFL is bigger

>>385539346
i've been on 4ch for 10 years, i just rarely make OPs. sorry for making it too informative

>>385518763
Nobody calls it like that, it's a meme.

Footsies

>>385540578
>So, a FS game essentially?
But FS empahsises you doing the big combo straight away cause everyone can do it. if not even in low level matches you are at a disadvantage

>>385540578
Not that guy but who gives a fuck about the sales? Millions of people play League of Legends but who cares? I fucking hate League of Legends.

Casualizing fighting games accomplishes nothing because it reduces enjoyment for the hardcore fans who are there in the long run. The scrubs will just find something else to complain about and then drop it like they always do, like when everyone complained about Chel in Rising Thunder because they couldn't deal with absolutely basic fireball/uppercut zoning. Scrubs hate fighting games because there's no teammates to save your ass or to whine about and put the blame on, every victory or loss is on you.

And fighting games are doing fine. Arguably the most popular they have been since the SF2 days. Most modern fighting games have hundreds or thousands of people playing and even niche ancient hidden fighting games have a dozen or so people playing on fightcade, that is more than enough for me.

Try giving this a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A&t

>>385515443
the stupidest thing about shit like this, or SFV, is that if i am already bad at fighters and want to improve, why would i be glad that they are dumbing the fighting game down to my level of skill, rather than myself improving to reach the skill level of the game? Modes like Beginner and Simple already do this (i use them for parties), but those are ~patronizing~ because they want to play like Beginners forever, but not have the game treat them like it.

more people need to watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A

>>385541836
they're pitching it as 'if you're a GG pro and your friend is an SF5 pro, you can meet in the middle here instead of one of you learning the other guy's game'

>>385541718
>>385541836
CORE-A HIVEMIND

>>385541938
if your friend is a SFV pro and you're a GG pro, you need to find new friends with better taste, not learn a third fucking game.

>>385515976
>, they should just play fucking Super Turbo. It's free forever on fightcade.
fightcade is not accessible. majority of the players are oldfags who never stopped playing the games. especially ST with its tight controls

>>385515443
i remember this when it was called rising thunder, which was tooting its own horn about the same stupid idea.

>do you suck?
>like, in general?
>here's the game for you, no inputs at all!

>>385542456
yes they are, ive been playing online all day

>>385542456
you can play online vs random ppl

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261KB, 950x247px

uhhh, this is straight ripped from sc2 and hearthstone...

>>385538872
>You can't just remove every other aspect cause you think you might like one part of it and expect the game to work.
We are talking about de-emphasizing ONE aspect of fighting games. Why would you expect it not to work? You might say the same thing about every new fighting game that is not a complete clone of an existing one.

> Plus this idea of getting rid of practice is pure bollocks, even this game requires some to figure out how to counter stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy


>You don't actually know much about SC, there is plenty of grind needed to properly play.

I forgot to add "some installments of", like 2 for instance, probably the best received one. Take it from a SC EVO champion if you don't believe me:

https://youtu.be/X8Eezj9O-e0?t=1070

from around 17:50 onwards.

>I do, I gave you an example where making it more casual did not work. You have a bunch of maybes with nothing to back it up

SFV had issues like lack of content which was unsurprisingly not well received by casuals.

>>385542706
News flash: This game is a rip off entirely. The only thing original is the stupid fucking button layout.

>>385539686
Setsuki isn't even the biggest offender. The clockwork dude is Nash, like one for one. Blonde hair, glasses, projectile, same flash kick, teleport that moves him behind the enemy. Or how about the Slayer clone + ghost character.

>>385542706
league of legends also use bronze silver gold plat diamond. why would you be mad about that, do you really need original tier names?

>>385539686
are you gonna ignore the vampire guy with the literal pile bunker? >>385516076

>>385541435
>SF4 was the game to get fighting games going again in a big way and was incredibly complex require plenty of lab time.
1) SFIV was not regarded as a complex game until several years into its life after people had mined every little unintended thing out of it, they had added a bunch of technical characters to pander to fanboys of older games, and when the discounted updated versions were generating mediocre sales
2) SFIV was heavily marketed and lauded as a simple, back to basics, easy to play casual friendly game and consistently recommended as a basic game that was good for fighting game beginners up until SFV was announced
3) You are a 14er nigger

The sudden repositioning of SFIV as THE MOST HARDCORE OF HARDCORE GAMES FOR HARDCORE GAMERS LIKE MY HARDCORE SELF so that people whose first game was IV want to pretend to be OGs is fucking hilarious.

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>>385515443

>>385515443
>>385543480
Good thing they got the thicc part down. Hot girls are synonymous with fightan games. Impressive for western developers.

>>385518971
First. There are many different people in the world. Not everything is made for you, not everyone is exactly like you there are different people who see and feel things differently.

Also taking away execution means that players can pay more attention to the rest of the game. Even if execution is "easy" for someone it still takes mental attention away from other stuff.
Also Fantasy Strike is supposed to be actual, skill based game. Better player should win. Noob will always be noob, but with simplified game they can face their lack of fundamentals faster when they can't make excuses based on execution.
Of course Fantasy Strike partially fails at that because it's full of Crossup moves and frametraps that you just have to know. But while FS fails as a game focused on fundamentals, the idea is still valid and worth pursuing.

>>385543427
>SFIV was not regarded as a complex game
yes it was, from the start we knew about 1 frame links and fadc

>updated versions were generating mediocre sales
can you explain to me how it kept selling in the millions then? super got 1.9 million, more if we count 3DS in a time where he whole rebuy the game thing was really frowned upon.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/finance/million.html

> SFIV was heavily marketed and lauded as a simple
it was also marketed as still having a lot of complexities for the hardcore and that didn't stop many bad players enjoying it

>You are a 14er nigger
seeing as you are arguing for fantasy strike, that makes you a 17er

>>385521927
>Mix ups would turn this game from casual fighter into casual hell.
Oh, like the endless amount of left-right mixups? Or attack/throw?

Whose genius idea was it to put a Mina clone in a game for casuals? I seriously can't think of a single character, aside from Talbain, that's more infuriating for a new player.

>>385544360
>seeing as you are arguing for fantasy strike, that makes you a 17er
Sorry I meant 14er but I should have said 14 years old

>>385544360
>yes it was, from the start we knew about 1 frame links and fadc
These don't make the game remotely complex, please play any fighting game besides Ultra some time.

>>385544360
>yes it was
>babies' first fighting game
>complex
Then you 09ers wonder why we call you revisionists: SFIV was know to be a simple game for literal BEGINNERS.
>actually thinking something that can barely be considered "high execution" as 1framers and FADC as complex
09er trash should be shot on sigh.

>>385545209
Who?

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>>385515443
so they intentionally made shovel ware?
if you want to make a fighting game that's easily "accessible just make it so all movies are commands instead of inputs. kind of like Smash bros
but oh look another western character game with a hodgepodge of characters

>>385547035
If it was the same game but you had to do a dragon punch motion to do a dragon punch, would it be shovel ware?

>>385547131
no?
i'm downloading the game now to give it a shot
but i'm not expecting much

geiger is so fucking bad lmao

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>>385547630
u wot m8?

>>385547810
good proof that he's not bad

>give Jaine both a shoryuken and a supposedly AA super
>literally none of them actually hit in time, not even the trip guard

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If scrubs want a game that plays like shit, why not play Verdict Guilty instead? At least this game has some style and originality.
Plus, it doesn't have online, so scrubs can stay salt free. Wouldn't want to come up against somebody who's better than them, amirite?

Give me a roster.

>>385537680
What the fuck are you even telling? Are you stuck on Sign?

>>385549321
the fuck language are you trying to speak

Is there a way to play online with my friends?

>>385546579
Majikina Mina. The girl with the bow plays similarly.

>>385549596

No, devs are retarded, the game is fun, but I won't play it anymore because the atrocious netcode.

If you gonna release some unifnished laggy mess, at least let us play with our friends that are usually near us

Kinda funny how the Ryu character isn't actually the worst rip off in the game. Except for the human shuriken thing of course.

>>385550249
too bad, I wanted to have fun with my friends that were not good enough to have fun playing regular fighting games
the game is really heavy on the cpu too

>>385541669
Hugsies

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>>385548642
Grave - Wind based samurai zoner guy who is surprisingly unique despite being the Ryu of the game
Jaina - Not Jaina Proudmoore, this one uses fire and a bow and has a DP that deals more damage to herself than her opponent
Clockwork Nash - Some clock guy who throws Clock booms and has a Clock kick and a clock teleport
Ibuki - Literally Ibuki
Valerie or something - Paint rekka chick who can do half your life in damage off a cross up but is easy to punish
Rook - Some rock guy with Zangief grabs, Swampthing grabs, and super armor
Dragon Honda - Some fat dude with all of Honda's moves, but he can turn into a dragon
Slayer + Ghost - Literally Slayer, but he has a ghost that can grab you.

Geiger is actually godlike
>Invincible DP
>Jump in bait option
>crossup divekick
>spammable fireball (if delayed, can be used for setups)
>super is a get out of jail free card and can punish many moves on reaction

I guess his normals aren't very good, but yeah, if you hit a DP you get a free hadoken into pressure

>>385552289
I've beaten every Geiger I've played against and even I can see the potential. I feel like I've only won because they're impatient and make poor reads.

Guys I'm having fun with this game, what do?

>release date Q3 2018

why

Why didn't they consider lag at all? Keep getting unplayably laggy matches

Like seriously don't match people who have more than 100ping ever you fucking idiots

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>>385552284
>Clockwork Nash - Some clock guy who throws Clock booms and has a Clock kick and a clock teleport
Complaining anyone is a copy of Nash seems like a really weird thing when Nash is a copy of Guile to start with and the fighting style has been blatantly copied many other times before.

>>385553337
>why isn't this pre-alpha optimized!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

>>385553337
Some moves also cause lag which is really upsetting. Grave's wind and Midori's yomi counter can straight up just cancel connection with your opponent. Can't complain too much though. It is free and pre alpha.

>>385553349
Bruh. It's like a 1:1 copy. Nash may be a copy of Guile, but most of his animations were unique. Geiger just straight up copies most of Nash's animations.

>>385553593
>Genocide Cutter
>straight up copies Nash's animations
I'm confused

This game is so terrible it reminds me of terrible games I played in 95 on my PC, and those games were really fucking terrible.

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>>385543228
It's not about the names, look at the icons; the first three are straight up taken from SC2

>>385553841
ok I admit that's pretty bad, geez

Does the counter throw happens if I'm walking and not pressing buttons?

>>385554080
You have to stand completely still. Literally touch nothing.

Played about three matches and deleted it. Its funny how simple controls make me feel like I have very little control at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB_p_DGOvp0

>>385554306
>Not an edit of his SF4 pitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4_RfgRXKCk

>>385554292
That's exactly how I feel. Not being able to back dash or dash at all feels so restricting. Having the throw button be tied to your only normal button also really fucking sucks. Sometimes I want to start up a close range combo, but it always goes into a throw. I really despise a lot of decisions.

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>>385554518
Jesus christ.

>>385553841
oh wow, a hexagon, some wings, a number, and traditional military style rank bits

these are things SC2 invented

Will i be able to play single player after the weekend?

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>>385554518
What the fuck, those ideas are all awful.

>>385554518
So who is David Sirlin? The only thing I know about him is that he wrote a god awful book.

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>western fighting games

AAAHHAHAAHHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

>>385552289
I feel that setsuki beats him easy

wait does "free weekend" imply it's going to actually cost money at some point

what a shit show

>>385554518
>>385554723
If you didn't click the link it's a combination of a Street Fighter mod for apparently Max Payne, and the text from their SF4 proposal video, which was having something like a combination of Tekken Force and DMC with SF mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pie4mXKnb7w
http://www.lion-gv.com/v09/Portfolio/game-design/street_fighter_iv/sf4-concept-doc.pdf

PORN
WHEN

paint bitch is literally broken

>>385555340
Old pro street fighter player that got to balance the HD remixes of SF2 and designed some tabletop games. Despite this, he's got a reputation for ideas like what you see above. For further thought, consider how his rebalancing of Akuma in SSF2THD is even more busted than the original.

CATCH ME ONLINE MY NAME IS HITLER

>>385555367
Killer Instict and Skullgirls are alright.

>>385521261

Riot is such a piece of shit company. I hope they got some sort of sunset clause so that if whatever project Riot had them working on got stuck in development hell or got canned the company would re-split or get to work on Rising Thunder again. But that's just wishful thinking.

>>385556778
How come Killer Instinct is the only western fighting game that actually tries to be different in a good way?
But even they can't escape the fact that western games have ugly looking female characters.

>>385556331
Not really.

>>385557390
It makes up with having amazing monster designs, which Japanese fightan has been lacking since Vampire Saviour days.
Monsters>waifus

WHO THOUGHT A ONE BUTTON ARMORED SPD THAT HITS AIRBORNE WAS OK

>>385557661
see
>>385556450
>consider how his rebalancing of Akuma in SSF2THD is even more busted than the original.

>>385557661
t. scrub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFZhsUW2uaw

>>385537708

Not even then. Besides a few special cases every character plays the same. if you can invest the time to master one you can master all.

>>385557661
Same dude that thought it was OK to give the highest damage character the best combo ability

>>385558308
>if you can invest the time to master one you can master all.
This isn't true in the slightest. I don't know why you think this is the case, but I can guarantee you that's not the case.

>>385556557

How to change the name? my name is ResponsibleBaker

I'm playing as Geiger

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>>385558437
Edit the displayname.txt file in the same directory as the .exe

>>385556450
The stuff that makes HDR Akuma broken was always there, it was just never used because he had more obvious broken shit.

Sirlin is kind of arrogant and stubborn made dumb mistakes but I feel like that applies to every western player that gets involved in development. Combofiend and MikeZ are really obvious and even S.Kill had his soapbox moments insisting on dumb shit even if he's a bit more professional and had less impact.

>>385521083
no dashing would be perfectly fine if it wasnt for the 3s makoto walkspeeds.

>>385558494

Thanks, changed mine to Pad

>>385558437
Oh hey, you remember fighting against a purple setsuki?

>>385557961
If there was at least a back dash I could tolerate it but not even that.

>>385558860

Kinda, you raped me, right? The only ones I'm having problem right now are Seitsukis

Damn Midori Dragon Install is kinda crazy
You can get 3 damage combos from anti airing and air to air attack super easy

>>385559112
It was pretty close but you won most of the time. I jumped over the gear with special 2 to punish almost every time.

>>385534024
Looks like this is the ultimate test for our guy, DSP.

Game looks like total shit.

>>385539686
Because Combofiend was right all along.

>>385559485

Oh, now i remember you, that was some fun fight

Why these fags won't let us play with friends? The game is fun but jesus

>>385559872
It's not that he's wrong, but rather that he's a hipocrite.

>>385559465
That shit needs to be delete off the game. There's too much meter gain here.

I tried all the characters out. The only one I really like is Geiger.

Major problem: Unplayable lag
Feels way too much like Rising Thunder.

>>385561239

put graphics on very low, it will reduce the lag

At least the ladies are decent looking. I guess it has that over most other western fighters

>>385561923
Setsuki is ugly but Valerie has a nice rack

we got a tier list yet?
I main Rook since large man McCommand grabs
Archer chick is cancer

>>385562148
Rook is top tier imo.

>>385562148
Tier list:
A-
Jaina
Grave

B-
Rook
Geiger
Setsuki
Midori

C-
Degrey
Valerie

>>385562148
From my absolutely limited time online and only having a handful of matches per character this is my amateur list.

>High
Geiger
Rook
Jaina

>Mid
Grave
Degrey
Setsuki

>Low
Midori
Valerie

>>385562538
Rook's mixups are only in his favor because of his extra health.

Most characters can neutral jump and punish his grab mashing for 3-4 damage.

I cannot believe that Sirlin actually believes this game is going to entice new players.
It controls like shit.
We need mommy Jaina in a good game, not this one.

>>385563038
His high health is exactly what nets him top tier for me. He's on the lower end of top tier in my opinion, but has pretty favorable matchups outside of Geiger and Jaina. Setsuki and Valerie can die in with 1 jump in combo + grab. Midori can't counter his grabs and gets stuffed by his longer range and DeGrey needs to put himself in grab range to do any real damage. Even if all you do is trade as Rook you'll end up winning. All it takes is one bad guess on his grab too and most characters lose a substantial amount of health.

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>>385515443
>It's in pre-alpha.

Yeah, gonna pass until it becomes something.

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>get hit, lose 3 health
>block, lose 2 health

>>385564756
Here's the secret to Valerie. You can grab her mid rekka. There you go. You just beat every Valerie.

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>>385557390
>implying Riptor isn't super pretty

>>385563519
not to mention the blatantly stolen move animations
-Ryu's Shoryu
-Zangief's SPD and Headbutt
-mosy of Ibuki's kit
-Slayers pile bunker

this game is pretty fun but the damage system is retarded. I don't think the problem with fighting games is that people can't count past 10

also valerie is OP waifu bitch. Why does she get 4 damage jumpin and 5 damage super AND autocrossups

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>>385557390
Orchid and Sadira got bad manface
but they've gotten better modeling females since Season 1
it's not Tekken 7 but Mira and Maya look good
Kim Wu is pretty ehh looking though, but they seemed to want her to look like your average Chinese woman

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who here /valerie/

>>385565516
Where's the lewd

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>>385515443
>can play as mami

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>>385565569
there's no lewd, but the card game expansion has a dominatrix character

It looks like the game isn't very fun

Characters are pretty braindead and extremely basic