what is the absolute correct super smash brothers melee for the

File: 1500188022437.png (175KB, 628x573px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 628x573px

That's wrong.

>>385196181
>>385197826
who fucking cares this shitty game is solved it's been solved for years

File: chrysippus.png (210KB, 285x425px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 285x425px

>falco still above marth in 2017

>>385197904
>solved
>meta is still evolving
Poor bait.

>>385197826
>kirby
>no
hmmmmm

>>385197904
yeah you tell him bro!

BRB watching some Marvel 3/TS vods

>>385198123
>meta is still evolving
>same 4 players win every tournament
L O L
O
L

>>385199790
Go look at the most recent dreamhack tournament and say that again

I'm so fucking sick to death of Melee and I wish smash 4 was good so it could die already.

>>385203801
Too bad. Melee will outlive Smash 4 and it's Switch predecessor.

>>385203917
I used to love it but it's so fucking boring now. I'm so sick of seeing the same shit again and again and the community is worse than it has ever been since the documentary.

File: leffen implying.png (124KB, 300x268px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 300x268px

>>385197826
>Yoshi can solo win a tournament if the player is skilled enough

>>385203917
>switch predecessor

???

File: smashkermit.jpg (248KB, 963x721px) Image search: [Google]

248KB, 963x721px

deadgame

Why is Doc considered better than regular Mario?

>>385204371
He can kill people.

File: 1475714145964.png (430KB, 1186x874px) Image search: [Google]

430KB, 1186x874px

Will /ourguy/ Luigi ever win?
He's the most fun character to watch, he deserves a it.

>>385199790
same players win every tourney because they're crazy good at the game and have been playing for like 12 years

Most recent tournament finally saw someone beat two of the top 4 players to win. He's been playing for like 7 years, and is insanely good.

It's a game of skill, execution, and experience. And to win a tournament you have to have all three of those to the absolute highest level possible.

also,
>>385197826 this is correct except I think I would remove samus, doc, and luigi. But what do I know.
>>385196181 this is completely wrong

at the end of the day fox is in his own tier and thats that.

I hail SSBM above every other smash title, but fuck the tournament crowd and fuck their tier lists.

They still consider Zelda and Shiek to be two different characters rather than a single a character. These fucks are so utterly wrapped up in their own evaluations and opinions and so devoid of creativity that they still dictate "Zelda only if Zelda and Shiek only if Shiek".
The character is Zelda. Turning into Shiek is one of her moves. You can use both.

Fuck these people.

>>385204551
Not unless Plup pulls out his weegee

>>385196181
>ganondorf in b-tier
>falcon placed above shiek

op is pool fodder and a faggot

>>385202067
by realizing fox is the best. Good meta.

Competitive melee is so repetitive it hurts. Everyone needs to let go and move on.

>>385204061
This is correct. Parrying is actually fucking insane and Yoshi's combo game is incredible. He's got a few bad matchups (Peach/Fox) but virtually nothing is unwinnable for Yoshi.

>>385207753
That's wrong actually. Yoshi would need to be TAS played in order to fully use the shield parry to win and has terrible losing matchups against every top tier character above Falcon.

>>385207894
>Terrible losing matchup
> vs sheik and falco it's 60/40 in sheik/falco's favor according to aMSa
>vs ICs it's nearly even
>vs Marth it IS even (hell, PPU even switches off of marth to fight aMSa)
>A random euro Yoshi took a game off Armada's peach recently (this is also considered yoshi's worst matchup aside fox)

You might be right, you might be wrong. There's not enough data available to really make a proper call; but preliminary evidence suggests your assessment isn't quite accurate as of right now.

>>385207894
there's no doubt that the player would have to be out of his mind amazing in execution and such. But really when you look at a player like Armada or kjh or other super technical players they're practically tas level already.

It's just the difference of do you want to put in ungodly amounts of time into a lower tier character and spend years upon years getting bopped before you see any results?

>>385204371
His attack properties give him access to better combos. The exact opposite happened in Sm4sh, it comes down to the physics/mechanics of the game.

>>385204551
Well, Blea Gelo took a set off Ice at EVO and Plup got 5th at CEO Dreamland with solo weegee. Luigi could definitely do it; we're just lacking one that's consistently up to par (or someone willing to try to go the full distance with luigi, as far as plup's case goes) at the moment.

>>385208346
It's not even really better combos. Doc's kill moves are just outright stronger. Mario has a great combo game, but his only decently low percent kill move is fsmash which really hurts anything he goes for. It's kinda reminiscent of pikachu in respect to his difficulty killing; but Mario in particular lacks the uair, the upsmash, or the incredible offstage maneuverability that makes Pika so deadly in spite of his flaws.

File: 42ada290-9161-469b-8d22-b7b34a7f4704.jpg (129KB, 535x939px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 535x939px

Guys, how do I beat Martha that spam F-smash? It's such an overpowered move and it's ruined my enjoyment ever since all my friends started picking Marth just to spam it. The only way I can reliably beat it is by picking Marty or Roy but that's just no fun. (I main Falcon, BTW)

>>385208141
aMSa is the Hugs of Yoshi.

>>385208624
Forward Smashers are the Shoryu spam of Melee.

>>385208624
dood you're a falcon main, dash dancing is the easiest thing in the world for you. Just dash dance for like half a second to bait out the smash then come in overshooting a neutral air or something

>>385208624
You can bait it out with dash dancing, wavelanding, wavedashing, jumping in, but playing with your aerial drift to make it ambiguous where you're going to land, or just run up and shield it (you can then wavedash forwards and punish in this case).

You can also clang with it with a move that does 0-8% less damage than it and force a rebound state which will give you frame advantage and allow you to punish off of that (falcon's forward tilt and uptilt both can do this, but forward tilt comes out one frame faster).

>>385204551
Give ka-master time to implement new tech. I swear for all of the flash of Abate/eddy mexico/other good luigis, a simpler gameplan and execution makes me just as hard.

File: IMG_20170719_110856.jpg (117KB, 720x1077px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 720x1077px

>>385209101
>>385208839
Thanks guys, I'll work on these from now on. I didn't want to drop this game over cheap tricks.

File: settled.png (349KB, 774x566px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 774x566px

OP, we already settled this nearly 10 years ago.

>>385209617
yes this is the much more accurate tier list, although...

samus is way too light to be any good, I'd put more money on doc than anything

>>385209940
Splitting hairs, but Samus is actually really heavy. She is just floaty as all get-out. Sort of similar to the Mario Bros.

>>385210545
I just see too many samus getting upsmashed early on fd and fod

>>385209617
>Worthless
>Luigi
>Yoshi
>Doc

They're honestly all pikachu tier. Their only misfortune (in doc and luigi's case) is a lack of a good enough player to represent them. Plup making 5th at CEO Dreamland with just luigi is evidence enough to this effect.

A similar case (that is to say: the character's aren't outright worthless, not to say they're pika/samus tier since they're most certainly not) could also arguably be made for YL, G&W, M2, Mario, and DK to some degree; but that's harder to outright prove due to lack of sufficient data.

File: yoshi.jpg (19KB, 371x440px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 371x440px

>>385209617
>>385197826
>Doc above Luigi

File: Character Guide List.jpg (159KB, 810x960px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 810x960px

>>385211090
>They're honestly all pikachu tier
This is incorrect. Pikachu have a much better kit then all the 3 characters.

>>385210840
Floaty characters always get UpSmashed earlier. Samus should win most of the time against spacies on FoD though.

>>385209617
This list is so outdated.
>Fox
>Marth (better then falco and maybe even fox due to human factors)
>Falco
>Puff
>Sheik (loses to CC, only counter is grabbing)
>Peach
>IC's
>Falcon

There's more about this list that is simply incorrect. Pichu is E tier. Kirby is above Bowser. Yoshi might place higher if they could combine parry and combogame better. Samus places over Pikachu, because Tier lists are based on the amount of positive matchups, but if it was based on tournament results Pikachu would place higher.

>>385212186
Sure, Pikachu has a great kit, but have you seen pika vs any floaty? You need to win neutral 20 times and get a random upsmash. Mario and Luigi both have much stronger combo games on floaties and Yoshi is largely unexplored. There is a reason Axe is alone in the top 100 amongst pika mains.

I say this as someone who wishes he could play Pika well.

>>385213284
By floaty you're referring to Peach Puff i assume? It's hard, but remember that Pikachu is also a floaty and can live for a long time too. Peach Puff both have better hitboxes i think, but Pikachu also has a good kit against floaties such as Dair (which is a kill move) and Lighning Bolt. Along with a Nair (Late, low%) that can't be CC'd and an UpAir that spikes to the floor, leading to a techchase UpSmash scenario.

>>385214080
nobody lives long against a peach aerial

>>385204551
Lugi is actually amazing but no one ever takes the time to learn him so he's not very high tier yet

>>385204731
No
Shiek has a completely different moveset from Zelda and different balancing
You don't use Zelda mid fucking game for two reasons
>That's not the character you chose to fight as
>Zelda fucking sucks

>>385196181
>kirby at bottom
fuck you I mained kirby back in the day and wrecked all the scrubs.

>>385198123
A meta can evolve without the tier list changing. And even if the tier list did change it won't be anything major.

>>385212186
Link's life does depend on his projectiles unless you like never coming out of hitstun.

>>385215347
I like tier lists based on frame data more than anything. I hate this idea that because one character isn't well represented in tourneys that it somehow translates to that character being inherently worse than another when given the data it is better.

>>385196181
>>385197826
Why is Kirby bottom tier?

Melee is fucking stale stop playing

>>385215742
he's shit
Way too light and floaty for this game, shitty dash attack and you can escape his fucking throws
Also has generally shitty matchups

>>385215742
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpsGaqhcAmw

Is there anyway I could play Smash 4 online without having to apply an update patch? I want to play with pre-patch characters.

>>385203801
It is, much better than Melee, in fact.

File: 1492590894284.gif (3MB, 173x267px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 173x267px

>>385196181
>>385209617
>falcon being above IC and Peach.

(also above sheik in OP's pic)

>>385197826
Why is Doc in A but Mario isnt

>>385211197
Leffen's list clearly isn't ordered between same tier characters.

>>385215934
except he has always had the most OP recovery ever, more than bayo in the finals last week.

plebs usually pick the fast ones though, ignoring that kirby also has stupid fast punches.

>>385216125
Doc is better than Mario, he is basically Mario with more damage and better movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCKMAvVld8k

>>385196181
>peach s tier
>not falcon

File: a39.jpg (57KB, 665x305px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 665x305px

This will forever be the true tier-list.

1-8 = Tactical advantage if you know the strategy for the character. The lower the number, the more counters your character has for other characters so long as you are skilled enough to react correctly.

10-26 = Unplayable.

>>385216585
And just so everyone else knows, the decimal numbers at the bottom mean that each character is closer towards another side.

For example Jigglypuff is 5th best, but she's not necessarily good enough for 5th so it's more like 5.42th best. It gives a scale of how close each character is to the others.

>>385197904
>Peach player winning majors
>hurr i-it's solved!
Stay assblasted, FGCuck.

File: sad kirby.jpg (197KB, 1239x841px) Image search: [Google]

197KB, 1239x841px

>>385212186
>>385209617
>tfw Kirby main

>>385205578
People forgot Ganon is great in Melee. He has Falcon's rolls, can kill outright in 3 moves, has the most powerful meteor, a spike, can recover is second jump, a great spacing tool in his jab and isn't a helpless baby like Brawl/Sm4sh.

>>385216737
>For example Jigglypuff is 5th best, but she's not necessarily good enough for 5th so it's more like 5.42th best. It gives a scale of how close each character is to the others.

uh what?
That's not where those numbers come from.
The list is made by averaging votes by a committee and those numbers are the exact average of everyone's placement of the character.

>>385216282
>except he has always had the most OP recovery ever
Kirby's recovery is one of the worse in the game. Despite having 5 jumps, his shitty air mobility just doesn't get him any distance, especially when compared to other floaties like Puff and Samus. And up-B is just an awful move in general.

what's wrong with pichu

>>385218427
Literally self defeating.

File: unplug_your_controller.jpg (20KB, 480x364px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 480x364px

>>385218427
>lighter than Puff
>hurts himself with electric moves
>lacks most of Pikachu's strengths