When the fuck is Ganondorf going to be allowed back into another

>>385117867
Never. New guy is going to replace all of Zelda lore with his shit.

>>385117978
New guy?

>>385117867
Ganondorf was overdone. There was nothing wrong with bringing Ganon back, the problem was the shit execution.

>>385118036
>Three games
>Overdone

Beast Ganon is far more overdone

>>385117867
Hopefully never

We need a pig warlock ganon back like a true demon king
Not some fuccboi gerudo or feral boar crap

>>385118212
In the realm of 3D Zeldas, Ganondorf is far more represented. Beast Ganon was just a boss form. BotW was the first 3D Zelda where Ganon was just Ganon. It's Ganondorf that's the "knockoff", stop pretending that OoT was the first Zelda.

Sorry that your husbando has been pushed off to the side OP, but people got bored of him. Maybe he'll be back a couple entries from now.

>>385118647
His previous human form of Ganondorf was first alluded to in LttP, the third game in the series and the first to try and establish real lore for the franchise.

>stop pretending that OoT was the first Zelda.

It might as well be. It's the one that set the formula the series would follow for over a decade to come.

>Sorry that your husbando has been pushed off to the side OP, but people got bored of him.

[citation needed]

He's one of the most popular characters in Smash and the hype when he was confirmed in Hyrule Warriors was through the roof.

Calamity Ganon was cool though.

>>385118919
>Ganondorf was first alluded to in LttP
Where? I don't recall that at all. Aganhim had backstory to some degree, but Ganon kinda felt like he came out of nowhere.

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>>385118025
Demise.
Skyward Sword explained Ganon as just being an incarnation of some angry Satan or whatever.
So now we can never have a Ganondorf with any kind of character, because that would be out of line with the lore.

It's sad, honestly. I liked his WW characterization. It was different from his "evil for the sake of evil" archetype.

>>385119250
The name Ganondorf is mentioned by one of the maidens you free in the Dark World

>>385118919
Ganons hype came from his very well done redesign and moveset. It's a Zelda musou, everyone was already expecting him in the first place. Who would've thought ganon with flowing long hair would look so god damn good. And dual wielding greatswords with dark magic is amazing.

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>>385119553
>It's sad, honestly. I liked his WW characterization. It was different from his "evil for the sake of evil" archetype.

It was so good that people misunderstand it. He wasn't a sympathetic figure but a tragic one. His wind monologue was an explanation of his need to try an obtain what he felt he could never have growing up

>>385119642
That design could work perfectly in a mainline Zelda with a few tweaks

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>>385119553
Does anyone have the original version of this

Gandulfo stole the thunder from pig ganon and overstayed his time in the limelight, he had to go.

>>385119989
No, but I'm sure it goes
High -> Great
Meh -> High
Great -> Meh

>>385119820
But muh tragic backstory. He didn't like where he lived so it was okay to commit multiple genocides.

>>385120004
>pig ganon
What's so great about him?
He's just a generic villain in the first three games with no character other than being the final boss. You could swap his character design out with Bowser and it would be the same thing in those.
He was cool in OoT but even that's a stretch. He'll never be a pig again now that he's a boar or a beast or whatever, even worse now that demise is in the picture.

I don't use this word often, but put your nostalgia aside.

>>385120246
Motivations don't always justify actions, but it makes his obsession with Hyrule understandable and why he insisted on ruling it even after it had been ruined by the flood.

>>385120246

You're dismissing an entire character by trivialization. You can do that with anything.

>>385120270
>He was cool in OoT but even that's a stretch.

He worked in OoT because he started out as human Ganondorf so it was intense to see him fly off the handle like that.

The sound effect for his screech is one of the best I've ever heard in a video game

>>385120246
Which is what makes him the villain.
If he had pulled through his goals and motivations through different means, nobody would have a problem and the game would never have happened.

>>385119820
>It was so good that people misunderstand it.
People misunderstood it because WW Ganondorf was extremely out of character.

>>385120517
No, he wasn't.

>>385120571
Yes, he was. That was the first and only time a Zelda game has tried to make Ganon/Ganondorf's story a tragic one.

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>>385120482
Dude I don't wanna jerk off on OoT too much, but this scene still gives me fucking shivers.
3DS version ruined it with too much lighting, it's a damn shame.

>>385119553
Sadly, this is true.
Skyward Sword fucked up any chance of them mixing it up with the main three. Link being a hero that failed, a moderate or rash Zelda or a neutral Ganondorf.

>>385120778
How did it contradict what we already knew? Deserts are not nice places to live.

>>385121047
>Link being a hero that failed

We've had those.

>a moderate or rash Zelda

What do you mean?

>>385120517
What's your point? It worked beautifully. Every character was out of character in that game.
>Link is a goofy child
>Zelda is a cocky tomboy pirate
>Deku tree is some weird fuck
>The gods are dicks rather than benevolent, nobody worships them

Hell, the entire game is out of character with the rest of the series if you think about it.

>>385121114
Failed as in he tried to save someone prior to the game's beginning and failed, and a Zelda that isn't fair or kind, but sharp with her tongue or even outright neglectful. You know, something new?

>>385121061
>How did it contradict what we already knew?
That's the thing, we didn't know this. It was never hinted at in any game prior. On top of that the Gerudo seem to live in the desert without any problems so you can't go with the "Deserts are not nice places!" angle.

>>385121307
Breath of the Wild?

>>385121307
So BoTW Link and Tetra?

>>385120778
thing is, it makes sense for him to be like that
he had hundreds, perhaps even thousands of years watching the world change so drastically the only ones that remember how things used to be can be counted on one hand
even with the later reveals, the fact the master sword sealed away his powers, it could have just as easily sealed away his connection to Demise as well allow him, for the first time, to actually grow as his own person

>>385121190

It kinda begs the question of what they can do with those characters next. Wind Waker was so out of line and different, TP tried to take it back to normal but felt bland, SS tried to do a bit of both and just put an origin story to everything, BOTW is I don't even fucking know.

>>385121456
Tetra's tsundere. Her harshness is to disguise that she's actually nice

>>385121509
>BOTW is I don't even fucking know.

BotW took the focus off of the characters so the player could immerse themselves more with Link and his journey.

I want a Goron incarnation of Ganon

>>385121509
>BOTW is I don't even fucking know.
A Zelda game going back to the norm.

>>385121358
>>385121456
Think a Link that regrets not being able to save someone, and having that regret linger. I didn't see that once in BotW. Tetra is far from harsh or cruel, let alone being a princess.

Basically a Zelda that makes the Gerudo King look benevolent.

>>385121479
I don't even feel like Ganondorf in WW is the same character from OoT though. You can't really count on the character development to carry on between games like TP did.
So what the hell is next? It's like they're putting a reset to everything with BotW

>>385121530
against Link, against everyone else she's still Tetra, queen of pirates

>>385121761
living long enough to see yourself become a footnote of history'll do that to a man

Member Ganondorf?

>>385121761

>BotW is a reset
Now the whole game makes sense. All the references to previous games and the way they handled Ganon and the story.
It's another Wind Waker ending that lead into Phantom Hourglass. I'll bet a round of beers the next game will be in Hyrule with the same Link and Zelda but with a different antagonist.

>>385121869
>Footnote
>still being spoke of in legends
>Zelda is completely forgotten

>>385121789
She does it to Link specifically because she cares more about him than others.

Her harsh criticisms of when they meet are specifically because she's fearful of him getting killed

>>385122214
she still robbed a guy of everything he owned for trying to rip her off

Like I said she cared about link but she sure as hell was no traditional zelda

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>>385122208
>Zelda never spoken about
Yeah wait a minute, what the fuck?

>>385122356
>she still robbed a guy of everything he owned for trying to rip everybody off

FTFY

and she wanted the bombs so she could get the Pearl because she was worried about what could happen to Outset Island

>she sure as hell was no traditional zelda

No, but she isn't what that anon was looking for either,

>>385122584
Some Zeldas are, some aren't

>>385122356
To be fair, that bomb shop owner had what was coming for him.
And he turned out a better person for it.

>>385122697
he did have a massive pair of balls though
trying to rip off a bunch of armed pirates by your lonesome takes guts

sure the predictable thing happened but he still gets points for trying

>>385119553
What we need is a Ganondorf that is deliberately trying to break the cycle. That would be dope.

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>>385122948
I'm still waiting for Valley of the Flood or whatever that other gay name was.
What the fuck was it

>WW ganon
>MUH DESERTS ARE SHIT PLACES TO LIVE I JUST WANTED HYRULE A BLOO BLOO
>Gerudo shown to be perfectly content with their lifestyle
Of course WWfags defend this

>>385123287
I've always seen it as more of a metaphor for his eternal lust for power. Never content, always wanting more.

>>385123287
>Gerudo shown to be perfectly content with their lifestyle
Did you play the game? If the heat didn't kill them, it was the cold nights.

>>385123287
Again, don't trivialize it just because you don't like it. The desert is a shithole, I wouldn't live there. You even see the gerudos migrating to different parts of Hyrule.

Now that you mention it though, the fucker could have just moved.

>>385120246
His upbringing set the stage for him to consider the actions he would make, he still acted the part of course. It's the same as Link in a lot of the games, especially Wind Waker. He could have just given up when his sister was taken, or when he finally rescued her he could have returned home if he wanted, but he didn't. He pressed on because he knew it was the right thing, and that is why he is a hero.

>>385123762
Name a single Gerudo in OoT or BotW who complained about their lifestyle.

>>385123860
>>385123802
>>385123762
>>385123654
You all are too easy to troll

>>385123247

Deluge something.
Where's that comic where hyrule is in constant rain, there's no hero, and some random fuck takes up a cardboard tube and goes to fuck with ganon?
He wasn't even the chosen one

>>385123908
>BotW
Opinion discarded, Wind Waker was way before that game was even written on paper, and the NPC's you talk to are not representation of the entire group.

>>385123934
>I-I was just trolling!
Sure you were.

>>385123247
Project Deluge

>>385123802
>You even see the gerudos migrating to different parts of Hyrule.
For the sole purpose of procreation. Remember, male Gerudo are incredibly rare.

>>385124125
>Wind Waker was way before that game was even written on paper
Yeah and WW was a direct sequel to OoT and you still can't prove your point.

>>385124245
Not really. There is that one gerudo in goron city who's only there for business, and the one who moved to tarrey town and just happened to get married, the only gerudo in the game to successfully get the dick without fucking up, I think.
I like the idea of gerudos being socially incompetent sluts, it's hilarious.

>>385124502

There's the one by the heartie lake where you have to help some sperg get desert pussy and succeeds to some extent.

>>385123287
>>Gerudo shown to be perfectly content with their lifestyle

Unlike them, Ganondorf was greedy and evil

>>385124464
Whatever happened in BotW is irrelevant. There's no evidence of the Gerudo being happy in OoT, and trying to tie BotW in with those two games isn't going to make your point right. We know Ganondorf wasn't a good king, but with or without him, their situation wasn't good, which Ganondorf realized when he speaks to you in WW.

Also, Majora was the direct sequel to OoT, Wind Waker simply took place after OoT.

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>>385124793
I have to rewatch some cutscenes from WW, because I can't for the life of me remember his motivations for trying to fuck over an entire continent just so he could live on some grassy plains.

Like just fucking move there, dick.

>>385124971
>There's no evidence of the Gerudo being happy in OoT
How about the fact that they're living peacefully.
People who aren't content with their lives don't just go about life just as normally as everyone else.

>>385125048
He didn't want to live there. He wanted to own it and remained obsessed with this goal even after it was effectively destroyed.

>>385122948
He did kind of do that in FSA. Honestly the entire Demise story was unnecessary. Explaining how there's multiple Links is okay, but there was always just one Ganon you fought at the end of each game.

>>385124971
>>385124125
So why do Gerudo keep living in the desert in OoT even after Dorf conquered Hyrule if he cared so much about his people and the harsh life of the desert?

>>385125231
>How about the fact that they're living peacefully.
Are you really this dense? There's no need to show them in shambles and ruins. I'd even wager the lack of shops and stores in the valley and fortress is a good indication of how very little they have. The story doesn't need to show their bad situation, the setting and undertones already do that. Plus, the lack of men is also an indication. Most of them are warriors and guards against their will, they have to be strong or get wiped out by the mostly male guards from Hyrule.

tl;dr you haven't played the game and think a visible example of their hardship is required to show they're not happy.

Also, you don't have any sense of subtlety or undertones.

>>385125614
Did you play OoT? Most of the Gerudo followed Nabooru, who absolutely despised Ganondorf, but they never went against him because he was their king by birthright. There's reportedly a group of Gerudo who literally worshipped Ganondorf as a god though, and they ended up being brainwashed and serving as the Iron Knuckles you fight throughout the game.

>>385125614
Did you play the game? Did you read the post? Ganondorf was EVIL. He didn't care about his people. Nabooru even mentions this when you meet her. Holy shit, you and that other anon are retarded.

>>385125896
and his WW persona is a complete contradiction of his OoT self.

>>385125972
No, it isn't. He never mentions the Gerudo in Wind Waker. He never claimed to care about them in either game

>>385122948

He actually probably tried to break it before the events of BotW, see that mural and that image when you turn on the game? There's Zelda, Ganon and..... Ganondorf? That third character is not Link, is Ganon who broke free of the Demise cycle and fought back by assuming the role of the hero, but all he did was just getting separated from demise and sealing him away, but demise was now so merged with Ganondorf's "Destiny" that he assumed the pig form and thus, Calamity Ganon is just the feral remains of Demise.

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>>385125896

God forbid they write some reasoning into villains in Nintendo games. This is why I don't like
>hurr I am evil and greedy
>I am here to take your land and lives
WW Ganon may not have had all that good reasoning, but at least he has SOMETHING going for him.
All I want is for them to take that character in the same direction but do it better and more understandable, instead of just making him some cookie cutout cartoon villain.

WW Ganon wasn't just some flat character, they made him interesting, that's why people like him. And that's the whole point.

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>>385125972
>contradiction
Now you're arguing for the sake of arguing. The anon above me already explained it in detail. By Wind Waker, he was already older and 'wiser' as a result. Believe it or not, people can change when they age. If anything, that was him realizing his mistake when he was younger, or finally seeing how his ordeal was living as a Gerudo.

Play the games and pay attention to what it is you're trying to argue about before you make a post.

>>385122948
I was actually hoping that the mysterious Old Man character would turn out to be Ganandorf after cutting himself off from Demise

I hoped for too much

>>385126727
I've said this before and I'll continue to say it until I find someone to agree with me

The boss fight after Calamity Ganon should've been Ganon returning to Ganondorf form for a 1 v. 1 fight.

>>385126865
>expecting such kino from modern Nintendo

No one at Nintendo makes games with that amount of depth or effort anymore.

>>385120849
DUN DUN DUN DUNNNN
*only weapon in the entire kingdom that can kill Ganon gets swatted away*
DUN DUN DUN DUN

>>385126272
Pic plz?

>>385127103
And then you hurt him with Deku Nuts

>>385125768
>There's no need to show them in shambles and ruins.
So, you think that they are living in shambles and ruin because they're living peacefully.
You aren't the smartest person are you.

>>385126865
That would have been retarded. You don't see someone go fucking sane from a defeat, they do the exact opposite dumbass.

>>385129225
Well, it takes an idiot to know one.

>>385129528
You've never heard of knocking some sense into someone? Never played Viewtiful Joe?

>>385125768
>the setting and undertones already do that
>living in the desert not bad on it's own only when far from a water source which is not too far from their fortress
>well off enough to even build a fortress complete with training ground that offers prizes
What are you talking about?

>>385129680
I hope you aren't referring to Captain Blue.

>>385130201
Yeah, Sue me. That's the sort of fight BotW should've done instead of the giant pig that doesn't even know you exist.

>>385130031
What the game presented. If you're too stupid to realize that, that's on you, not me.
>Training ground that offers prizes
>prizes
Yeah, you're a fucking idiot.

>>385130634
>What the game presented.
What did it present that isn't complete headcanon from you?

>>385117867
Fuck that WW bullshit with Ganondorf having a "tragic" backstory. It never introduced anything of any substance into Ganondorf's character and I'd argue that it made him seem more of a envious child rather than an evil tyrant.

Personally I want more OC villians. Something like Majora or General Onyx again.

>>385130634
>>Training ground that offers prizes
>>prizes
>Horseback Archery gives you a Piece of Heart and a large quiver
>Training grounds awards you with the Ice Arrows
Not him but did you even play the game?

>>385117867
Ganondorf is dead, he was killed for good in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker and he was completely corrupted by his Ganon alter-ego in the downfall timeline.

>>385131046
He was an envious child that grew up into an evil tyrant.


You only feel this way because every game afterwards went full ANCHUNT EVUL instead of developing him further so WW feels jarring by comparison

>>385131216
This is why the timeline was a bad idea.

>>385118430
This.

>>385130752
>>385131146
Gerudo Valley is closed off from everyone else. When you get to the fortress, you're treated as an intruder and a prisoner. There are no conveniences to use, like a shop. Your logic with prizes are the result of it being a video game: Having an area with an objective. And that 'prize' is hidden by death traps and other obstacles that are deadly. The archery minigame is another way to train those warriors for a potental battle, being open to you after you earn their respect as a warrior. Knowing you, you'll say
>There aren't any Gerudo archers, though
Like the idiot you are.

Just play the fucking game and stop being a retard. And again, it's a video game. You're going to have things to find in it, otherwise it's not a game.

>>385131235
>He was an envious
Envious of fucking what? He was the King of Gerudo solely because he was a male and on top of that was free to leave any time he wanted to.

>>385131235
I'm speaking solely from the perspective of OoT and WW. He was competent and threatening and always seemed an evil tyrant in OoT. Even when you seem him just as a child he actually gave an air of menace. In WW I thought it would be similar, just that he was more subdued and grizzled, but instead I get an old man giving me a sob story that never excuses or justify's his actions and instead softens the image of the eprevious Ganondorf I knew into nothing more than a kid having a tantrum. You can be all for that, but I thought it was stupid. It didn't add a layer of depth, it just made Ganondorf less cool.

>>385131590
He wanted Hyrule for himself and only himself. For him the land itself was the greatest treasure in the world

Look up what the word "covet" means.

>>385131704
>that never excuses or justify's his actions

Where does /v/ get this retarded idea that the villain's motives must excuse everything he does to be effective?

>>385117867
He was in hd windwaker

>>385131723
So he wasn't envious at all was he.

>>385119989
I hate this list so much because good villains are not "muh always right" they need to fit the story and counter the protagonist and make him think deep inside himself about what his goals really mean or actions really cause.

Shit like this just spawns armchair critics that think if the villain is wrong it's a bad villain. And start posting on sites like this with their golden wisdom.

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>>385119553
You guys still don't "get" Ganondorf. Why are your power levels so low? And then you have the moxie to try and tackle the timeline of all things?

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.

As you are now you're not worthy of facing off with me in discussion. Get better and then come back and see me.

>>385131704
>implying the goddesses aren't the ones throwing a tantrum
"Ganondorf is taking over Hyrule, better flood the entire world."

>>385131993
His desire for Hyrule was born from how shitty his homelife was. "The grass is always greener"

>>385132904
>was born from how shitty his homelife was
His homelife as a king who could do what he wanted? Not to mention he had clear relations with the King prior to trying to control the triforce.

Where does this shit home life thing come from?

>>385133140
The conditions of the desert

HE was not happy there and HE wanted a better land for himself. Many of peoples' desires later in life are shaped by their experiences as children. It doesn't matter how the other Gerudo felt. From that point on, Ganondorf only focused on Hyrule and became obsessed with claiming it for himself.

It stuns me how such a simple story is too complex for 95% of the fanbase.

>>385133440
Different anon here. Why didn't he just move.

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>You'll never get a Ganondorf as interesting as WW's ever again

BOTW was fun and all, but having the primary antagonist have literally no other capable thought other than destruction was definitely a let down. Even ALBW had a better story than BOTW did

>>385133440
>HE was not happy there and HE wanted a better land for himself.
And can you find any shred of evidence of that outside of Wind Waker?
You're still making absolutely baseless assumptions.
>are shaped by their experiences as children.
We know nothing of his childhood you idiot, the idea of it being bad is coming solely from you.

>It stuns me how such a simple story is too complex for 95% of the fanbase.
It's not complex, Wind Waker Ganondorf is entirely out of character.

>>385133750
Albw was perfect. Shit, 2d Zelda is underrated

>>385134010
You're not wrong, it's highly underrated. Dungeon gameplay was lowkey much better than BOTW's. Really hoping that we get a 2D Zelda with 60fps again in the next few years on the Switch

>>385133750
>but having the primary antagonist have literally no other capable thought other than destruction was definitely a let down
That's pretty much Ganon in most games dude.

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>>385133602
He didn't want to live in Hyrule, he wanted to OWN Hyrule. It's the same reason he didn't conquer the Great Sea or the rest of the world in Wind Waker. He's never cared about anywhere else in the world besides Hyrule. He couldn't let it go even after he had sunk. His obsession is the driving force of WW's story and ties into the King's speech at the end.

>>385133782
>And can you find any shred of evidence of that outside of Wind Waker?
>Can you find any shred of evidence of that outside of the game that gives you the evidence?

Are you forgetting that Wind Waker was only his second appearance in Gerudo form? The series was developing his character but by bit with each installment. OoT gave us his origin, and WW gave his motivation. TP gave him a few good scenes too, but then the franchise gave up and went LOL DEMISE

>We know nothing of his childhood you idiot, the idea of it being bad is coming solely from you.

He grew up in the fucking desert.

>It's not complex, Wind Waker Ganondorf is entirely out of character.

He is now that the franchise went and made him the reincarnation of a one-off filler villain. It's not Wind Waker's fault that the later games gave up on good villains

>>385133440
>>385134204
Anon, you're preaching to a group of people who likely never read any form of literature or even grasp the concept of undertones and character development. Most importantly, this is /v/. Most of these dumbfucks have never stepped out their houses or rooms. You think they pay attention to smaller details like the Shadow Temple and the Well being torture chambers?

>>385134204
>He didn't want to live in Hyrule, he wanted to OWN Hyrule
Now see this is what I mean. This is exactly the same thing that we are shown in OoT and WW did absolutely nothing to change this fact. All it did was make Ganondorf more introspective, which I personally found to me lame. It didn't add any depth or substance to his character.

>>385134570
>This is exactly the same thing that we are shown in OoT and WW did absolutely nothing to change this fact. All it did was make Ganondorf more introspective, which I personally found to me lame. It didn't add any depth or substance to his character.

It tells us WHY he wanted Hyrule, and, more importantly, why nothing else has ever mattered to him. Ganondorf has never shown interest in world domination despite having the means to do it with ease. Especially in Wind Waker where there's still no hero ready to stop him. Instead he reverts right back to his old plans and habits because his desire for Hyrule is all he knows. This is also why the King wishes to flood Hyrule as the only way to truly end Ganondorf's rampage.

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>>385134767
>Ganondorf has never shown interest in world domination
He does, he just wants Hyrule along with it as a big fuck you to all the green-clad elven boys that have been getting in his way.

>>385134767
>It tells us WHY he wanted Hyrule,
And his 'why' is incredibly stupid and no better than just lusting for power. He just comes across as a petulant child.

>>385135415
The world is a bonus to him. Without Hyrule it's meaningless.

Think about it. In the three games that he's appeared as Ganondorf, the first time he builds his tower on the ruins of Hyrule Castle, the second time he builds it in walking distance of Hyrule, and the third time he simply takes over Hyrule Castle. Proving his dominion over Hyrule always has always had a special significance to him

>>385135664
>And his 'why' is incredibly stupid and no better than just lusting for power.

It gives that desires realisitic roots and explains why he only ever shows up in Hyrule instead of trying to conquer Termina or the World of the Ocean King.

You're probably the kind of dipshit who would ask why the Israelis and Palestinians don't just move somewhere else

>He just comes across as a petulant child.

Oh no, character flaws, can't have those!

There's nowhere to go with Ganondorf as a man. The entire point of his character is to get lost in his anger and despair, slowly lose his sanity, and finally shed any remaining vestiges of humanity to become a mindless beast so you have something to fight at the end of the video game.

>>385117867
If we're lucky, it will happen with the BotW final DLC package, since it seems to be set after the game ends. It could be one of many ways, but there's a good chance its coming.

Concept art for Ganondorf was shown where he was on top of a floating mountain with guardian arms under it, and we have a big chunk of mountain in the Gerudo region that is oddly locked off at this time

There is also the dungeon underneath Hyrule Castle that was noted to store the divine beasts, as well as additional ones we have not seen, and Ganon was sealed under the castle in this location from what we can gather.

Though we could be fucked and it'll be something anti-climatic, or else they'll just have Ganon-Lynel as a thing

>>385119553
Fuck Anouma for coming up with that stuff, since Skyward Sword's plot is now going to fester in every game after it.

"Oh, Zelda's just a GODDESS that reincarnated as a human, and she worships herself or something"

"Link is the reincarnation of that goddess' hero who died tragically, and she used him to fight for her again and again"

"Ganondorf is the hatred of Akuma with swords and he's now not allowed to be his own person but instead this super angry dude's representation for all time"

It was already kinda crummy that the triforce trio was destined due to their triforce pieces, but adding an extra layer of special snowflake to them really sours things for me. Just like how BotW kept trying to hammer it in that only the spirit of the hero could wield the Master Sword, despite Zelda being able to hold it, and noting that she could hear the spirit within the sword, despite Fi going inactive at the end of SS.

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>>385135962
>The world is a bonus to him. Without Hyrule it's meaningless.
Almost nailed it. You're right in that Hyrule has a special meaning to him, but in the end he's after complete and total world domination. Even in TWW the presence of Ganondorf and the enemy count increases above the sea in the latter half of the game, even though at that point he doesn't have any business there any more. It's more like it's the world he's after, and Hyrule is the big juicy bonus that he just has to have with it at all costs.

>>385136713
>It's more like it's the world he's after, and Hyrule is the big juicy bonus that he just has to have with it at all costs.

No, it's the opposite. This is why the king's wish, more than anything else that's ever happened to him causes him to snap, he's laughing because he see no future for a world without Hyrule, and this drives the final battle as he wants to kill Link and Zelda in order to prove it.

>>385134204
>Are you forgetting that Wind Waker was only his second appearance in Gerudo form?
Yes because that totally means they should add something completely nonsensical to his character, right?
>The series was developing his character
You mean the character that was depicted as an evil tyrant through several games by that point?
That is until Wind Waker ruined it

>He grew up in the fucking desert.
Yes and?
Living in a desert is only a bad thing if the desert is absolutely devoid of water, but guess what's right by the Fortress.
That's right, a river.
It's also worth noting that Gerudo themselves are free to come and go from the Fortress which goes against the whole "we HAD to live there!" that WW was trying to push.
You keep on going on and on about these harsh conditions of the desert but there's not a single character beyond Ganondorf in Wind Waker who gave a fuck. That's not how you present something that's meant to be bad.

>He is now that the franchise went and made him the reincarnation of a one-off filler villain.
They may have put a name behind it in SS but it was by no means a new concept by that point. Especially since both Adventure of Link and Oracles were both plots about reviving Ganon.
Hell Ganon dies in LttP and yet was revived fully for Zelda 1.

Getting back to the point, what I'm trying to say is that he was already established to be a character that's evil for the sake of being evil rather than having a "tragic backstory" where his people were forced in the desert despite being free.

>>385136940
You're reading too much into it. Ganondorf snaps because he waited 100+ years to finally get his chance at a wish and that faggot king ghost ruined it for him at the last second.

>>385135962
>Implying that a simple lust for power isn't one of the most realistic roots you can have.

>Oh no, character flaws, can't have those!
A weak character flaw that adds nothing of substance.

>>385137091
>Yes because that totally means they should add something completely nonsensical to his character, right?
>Motives are nonsensical

>You mean the character that was depicted as an evil tyrant through several games by that point?
At what point in Wind Waker is he not a tyrant?

>You keep on going on and on about these harsh conditions of the desert but there's not a single character beyond Ganondorf in Wind Waker who gave a fuck.

>>385137337
I'm backing up everything I'm saying with his own words. If this is reading too much into it, then Zelda fans clearly aren't suited to read into much of anything

Think about it, why would he suddenly pull out his swords and try to butcher Link and Zelda mere moments after explicitly saying he would not kill them. If he was mad at the king, then the obvious response would've been to attack the king, but he wasn't seeking revenge, but to prove a point which is why he went after Link and Zelda instead


>>385137495
>A weak character flaw that adds nothing of substance.

Besides an actual answer for why he would go through the trouble of trying to conquer Hyrule no matter what happens to him or what kind of condition it's in. It's more of an answer than HE'S JUST SO EVIL. Future games could've easily expanded on this, but instead took the easy way out and stripped him of any will of his own. That's Nintendo's fault though, not Wind Waker's

>>385122948
That would be cool. What also would be cool is if a certain Link turned out to be less than heroic than usual through sheer will of the player.

>>385137953
>if he was mad at a ghost, he should've tried attacking the ghost
This is how retarded you sound.

>I'm backing up everything I'm saying with his own words
How bout paraphrasing him and seeing what he actually has to say.

>This is foolishness...
>A future...for you?
>Very well, then...
>Allow me to show you...
>Your future...
*pulls out katanas*

>Yes... Allow me to show you...
>Just what hope you have...
>...See how much your precious Triforce is worth!

Sounds more like he doubts the Triforce's ability to put fish in the ocean and that he should've been wearing a fedora during this scene.

No but seriously, it's plainly obvious that he's shitting on the king's wish. Nowhere does it say that he only wants Hyrule, he wants the ocean drained so he rule the Hyrule he wanted to have ruled in the past and then some.

>>385137953
>>Motives are nonsensical
Motives that don't make sense are nonsensical anon. That's kind of what nonsensical means.
>At what point in Wind Waker is he not a tyrant?
The part you're defending anon?
The part where he's supposedly doing this because of his desert life?

Tyrants aren't tyrants because they're doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, unless you want to call Robin Hood a tyrant, they're tyrants because they're doing the wrong thing and don't give a fuck.

>>385119553
Think about how little of skyward sword has been featured since it came out.

Demise wasn't even playable in Hyrule Warriors. Yuga and a real Ganon were.

No one cares about Demise and they likely regret doing that internally.

>>385139040
Wind Waker is vague on exactly what the king is. It's certainly more than a ghost given Link and Tetra's attempts to convince him to come along with them.

>Sounds more like he doubts the Triforce's ability to put fish in the ocean and that he should've been wearing a fedora during this scene.

The wish was for Hyrule to be washed away and for Link and Zelda to have a future without it. Ganondorf finds this laughable and turns on them to prove that there is no future without a Hyrule regardless of what the Triforce might say. Obviously they win and prove him wrong

>No but seriously, it's plainly obvious that he's shitting on the king's wish.

Yes, he;s shitting on it because it goes against his narrow view of the world that revolves around Hyrule

>Nowhere does it say that he only wants Hyrule, he wants the ocean drained so he rule the Hyrule he wanted to have ruled in the past and then some.

If he wanted that, he could've wished for all of it at once. He wishes for Hyrule because that's all he truly wants even if he might get bored and conquer the world later on.

All of this is tied together by the King's speech after the battle in which he laments his similarities to Ganondorf and why he wishes to vanish with his kingdom while entrusting Link and Zelda to find a land to call their own.
(And no, he wasn't saying that they can't call it Hyrule, he was speaking metaphorically)

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>>385135962
>The world is a bonus to him.
???

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>>385134375
>shadow temple
>bottom of the well
>graveyard
>spirit temple
>forest temple

Man, when the fuck are we going to get another Zelda that actually has atmosphere and spooky shit?
The last time there was any sort of horror themes or legitimate "atmosphere" was the wind temple in wind waker.
Or the earth temple. I forget which one you brought Medli with you.

>>385119989
where's

>villain is working towards the same end goal as you but going about it immorally

>>385139058
>Motives that don't make sense are nonsensical anon. That's kind of what nonsensical means.
>I want Hyrule because it's better than the shithole I lived in my whole life

What doesn't make sense about that?

>The part where he's supposedly doing this because of his desert life?

Hitler did a lot of what he did because he was butthurt over his failed art career. He still turned into a tyrant

Ganondorf spends most of Wind Waker sending monsters to abduct young girls. Regardless of his reasons he'll still do anything to get what he wants.

>>385139947
And how much of the world did he go out in conquer in seven years unopposed

None, he obsessed over finding Princess Zelda instead.

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>>385140329
>None, he obsessed over finding Princess Zelda instead
He was trying to get all the Triforce pieces so he could do exactly that though? Once he had the Triforce he would rule the entire world.

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>>385139947
We're failing to consider whether or not Hyrule is the most central part of the world in the Zelda universe.
Maybe it's the America of that series. If you rule America, you basically rule the rest of the nations in this world by proxy.

>>385140329
>Hitler did a lot of what he did because he was butthurt over his failed art career
What.
Please don't take this thread in THAT direction.

>>385139923
>to prove that there is no future without a Hyrule regardless of what the Triforce might say
If he was convinced of this, he would've let them go and terrorized them all the while they were looking for that larger landmass. Seems more like he gets a hissy fit and tries to nullify the Triforce's wish before it has the chance to fully take effect.

>Yes, he;s shitting on it because it goes against his narrow view of the world that revolves around Hyrule
He's shitting on it because his carefully managed keikaku from hundreds of years ago went down the drown in just a couple of seconds. And you're the one calling the fanbase dumb?

>If he wanted that, he could've wished for all of it at once
He already got the great sea in the bag though. You can see his influence spreading rapidly once his seal gets broken, even in gameplay, and moments before right before you fight his puppet he literally admits that the entire civilization above sea is a pathetic bunch of islands haphazardly scattered around. The only thing he cannot have without a wish is old Hyrule. Mind you, not even just the land, but its "wind".

>All of this is tied together by the King's speech after the battle in which he laments his similarities to Ganondorf
But not being able to let go is not comparable to what he actually wants. He *wants* the world, and since his original wish to conquer the world had been taken from him, he wanted revenge as well. And now there's no kingdom to take revenge on any more, so of course he's gonna wish those faggots back so he can torture them a bit longer.

>>385136681
I need a pic of that concept art.

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>>385140510
I mean depending on how much you want to separate Ganon from Ganondorf none of this really matters.

>>385140329
>And how much of the world did he go out in conquer in seven years unopposed
>None
[citation needed]
We never see beyond Hyrule in OoT and we're never told how much land he's conquering or how much resistance from other kingdoms he's facing.

>>385117867
The child and adult timeline have erased the existence of ganondorf and left behind only the demon persona, ganon
Twilight princess link killed him and so did wind waker link, being the only two to actually finish him off, windwaker stabs him in the head and twilight link stabbed him through the heart, preventing a reincarnation of ganondorf but not ganon
Which is why you have four swords adventures and breath of the wild

>>385141323
Ganondorf has the exact same motives and ambitions as his demonic form though, see >>385139947

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>>385140510
He could have done both at the same time. He had seven years. It was clearly not very high on his list of priorities

I also love how you're using images from one of the first games in the series from before Nintendo knew how big the Zelda franchise would become and how much fans would grow to be into the lore

It's like if I posted this picture in response to someone who likes Bowser's character because of the RPGs

>>385140696
His stupidity has reached astronomical levels and backed me into a corner. He's insisting that whether someone's a Tyrant or not has to do with their motives

>>385141032
>If he was convinced of this, he would've let them go and terrorized them all the while they were looking for that larger landmass.

He's trying to prove it by himself and to himself. There's a part of him afraid that they may actually succeed and then Hyrule would truly be forgotten

>He's shitting on it because his carefully managed keikaku from hundreds of years ago went down the drown in just a couple of seconds.

He was still a powerful, borderline immortal sorceror, he could have come up with another plan except for him there was no other plan to be made.

>He already got the great sea in the bag though

Actually the fishman says that since discovering Zelda, the whole reason he was doing anything with the great sea, his fortress on the surface had been abandoned. He didn't care anymore

>admits that the entire civilization above sea is a pathetic bunch of islands haphazardly scattered around

Thanks for reminding me of this. I was making all these points without even remembering the puppet ganon speech. It shows his mindset in asserting that by in destroying Hyrule he had destroyed the people who had left it as well. To him there was no value in trying to live out their lives on the Great Sea. He saw it as a detestable wasteland much like his old home and had scorn for those trying to make the best of their situation

1/2 character limit

>>385117867
Fuck that, just give me a Ganondorf game
>almost impossible to kill
>rule over tons of bitches, dick um anytime
>fight like a demon
>steal like a phantom
>cast spells like a bad ass
>command armies of mooks
>if nigga gets an attitude, curse um

Whats not to like?

>>385141032
>But not being able to let go is not comparable to what he actually wants. He *wants* the world, and since his original wish to conquer the world had been taken from him,

If he wanted the world he would've had the world. He's going insane because he didn't truly want it. All the power in the world was still his to wield yet he would forever be denied the only thing that ever really mattered to him

>>385141482
They're never mentioned or referenced. The burden is not on me to prove a negative. If he's ever exercised his influence somewhere other than Hyrule, show me where. It's not like Zelda games never have other settings

>>385142059
Fuck, I love the Ganondorf chapters of Hyrule Warriors

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>>385140193
Unless they want to go for a higher rating, we'll never get anything like pic related in a Zelda title ever again.

>>385142426
They showed a willingess to go to a T.

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>>385141038
Here you go, anon. This was harder to find than I expected, but it's something the team considered during their concepts of the game, and considering Mt. Agaat or whatever exists but won't allow us to climb around on it as if its out of bounds, and that's in the Gerudo region, who knows what's really going on there.

>>385142008
Why would he do both when only focusing on one would accomplish everything and anything he'd need? Also see this anon
>>385141482

Also couldn't you consider the RPG marios as spin-off? That Bowser in your pic still acts the same as the Bowser in all of the other Marios games also, capturing Princess Peach and keeping her with him.

> If he's ever exercised his influence somewhere other than Hyrule, show me where.
Would the oracle games count? Both of the main villains are doing something for the purpose of Ganon.

>>385141583
4sa had a new dorf become Ganon, a gerudo tell you that he was kicked out of the tribe. In botw ganon was trying to reincarnate back into Dorf but link interpreted him.

>>385142008
>He's trying to prove it by himself and to himself
I saw no part of his speech or anything else indicating this, and a quoted the guy in full at the relevant part.

>he could have come up with another plan
You think he's just gonna retreat for a while after seeing the single most important thing in his life fail right in front of his face? For someone who claims they know so much about him you seem to have completely missed the focal point of the character.

>his fortress on the surface had been abandoned
Because he didn't need it anymore. There's also a big increase of hostile battleships everywhere and I seem to remember a bunch of npcs on Windfall complaining that the great sea has gotten more dangerous lately.

>To him there was no value in trying to live out their lives on the Great Sea. He saw it as a detestable wasteland much like his old home and had scorn for those trying to make the best of their situation
Finally a point I can agree with. Ganondorf, being so used to just taking and stealing from others, cannot even hope to imagine the seeds of greatness coming from a tiny but strong community.

>>385142602
>Also couldn't you consider the RPG marios as spin-off? That Bowser in your pic still acts the same as the Bowser in all of the other Marios games also, capturing Princess Peach and keeping her with him.

But like in Zelda later games built his character bit by bit. He has a son now and is actually shown to sincerely care about him.

>Would the oracle games count? Both of the main villains are doing something for the purpose of Ganon.

Sorry, but no. It was Twinrova acting on their own to revive Ganon (because he was their son) who Link immediately kills before he can do anything.

>>385140329
>What doesn't make sense about that?
The part where he's supposedly doing it because he lived in a "shithole" that was anything but and he was free to leave at any time. He even had relations with the King of Hyrule which could have lead to some improvements regarding things like trade routes to improve commerce and so on if he was that dedicated to the desert.

The bottom line is that Ganondorf didn't do anything because he had a bad childhood or lived in a shithole, he did it because he was just plain evil.

>Hitler did a lot of what he did because he was butthurt over his failed art career.
Are you really going to equate Hitler to a video game character?
On top of that, do you really not know why Hitler's campaign began?

>>385121889
I member! Member the Triforce?!

>>385141583
>Train tracks link is the link from 10,000 years ago
>His descendants made the guardians and are the reason Hyrule fell yet again
>Breath of the wild is in the wind waker timeline after they rebuilt a new Hyrule
Yes please

>>385142264
>If he wanted the world he would've had the world
And he's claiming the world, and he's claiming old Hyrule and the ultimate power that comes with it along with it.

>If he's ever exercised his influence somewhere other than Hyrule, show me where
Centuries later his minions are minions are trying to completely take over Labrynna and Holodrum. And in those games they also mention that if a dark veil hangs over Hyrule, it will also eventually hang over those kingdoms.

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>>385142497
>Cool trick, sir Ganon!

>But like in Zelda later games built his character bit by bit. He has a son now and is actually shown to sincerely care about him.
But the core of Bowser never changed, he still just kidnaps Peach. Ganondorf still just wants to rule the world, not just Hyrule.

If you don't count the Oracle games then there are no other lands for us to compare. The only other lands we see are either a dream, an alternate world, or don't exist yet.

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>>385143213
>THAT'S SIR GANONDORF TO YOU, MINION
>ENJOY FIVE ETERNITIES IN ZELDA HELL AS PUNISHMENT

>>385143338
meant for
>>385142892

>>385117867

ganondorf died in every timeline possible, he wasn't sealed, so no chance

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>>385131235

Yeah I can imagine his suffering being the only male in a kingdom full of sexy women, how fucking tragic holy shit bring me tome tissues I need to "cry".

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>>385142497
>giant boss that moves around the plains
>you have to scale the mountain while avoiding death traps and obstacles
>get to the top of the mountain, past the clouds, to fight Ganon
>ends as Ganon falls off the mountain and obscures into the distant, obviously dying

Would be INCREDIBLE.

>>385142793
>I saw no part of his speech or anything else indicating this, and a quoted the guy in full at the relevant part.

It's the fact that he insisted on fighting them himself. He knew he was screwed and resigned to washing away with the kingdom, but he couldn't go down alone without personally seeing to the failure of the king's which which was a direct rejection of his view of the world. He had to kill them himself to get closure.

>You think he's just gonna retreat for a while after seeing the single most important thing in his life fail right in front of his face? For someone who claims they know so much about him you seem to have completely missed the focal point of the character.

We agree here, but for different reasons.

>Because he didn't need it anymore. There's also a big increase of hostile battleships everywhere and I seem to remember a bunch of npcs on Windfall complaining that the great sea has gotten more dangerous lately.

We see in the DS games that there are other pirates groups out causing trouble.

>Finally a point I can agree with. Ganondorf, being so used to just taking and stealing from others, cannot even hope to imagine the seeds of greatness coming from a tiny but strong community.

Because in his eyes it was the land that made Hyrule as great as it was, not the people which is why he was content to go through all that trouble for a kingdom that was now nothing but abandoned ruins.

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>>385143760
>falls off the mountain
>obviously dying
>Ganon

>>385143521
>Ganon died in ALttP
>came back in ALBW and LoZ
>???

>>385143895
Considering Nintendo at this point gives no shits for a Zelda timeline, it's possible.

>>385143923

>ganon

KEY POINT faggot, ganon, NOT ganonDORF

ganondorf the MAN died, ganon is the generc "ancient evil" pig trash that respawns every time

ganondorf was the same dude in OOT, TP and WW, they were just different timelines due to the split

>>385119989
Great is the same as shit tier. Chaotic evil is the worst.

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Why is the return of Ganon/dorf even a topic of debate?
What makes you think any conclusion to a Zelda game is anything but
>I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, LINK
>NEXT TIIIME

>>385143180
>And he's claiming the world, and he's claiming old Hyrule and the ultimate power that comes with it along with it.

The ultimate power is the Triforce. There was no power in Hyrule by itself

>Centuries later his minions are minions are trying to completely take over Labrynna and Holodrum. And in those games they also mention that if a dark veil hangs over Hyrule, it will also eventually hang over those kingdoms.

They were manipulated for the purposes of reviving Ganon. Those lands where just the means, not the end.

>>385143338
>But the core of Bowser never changed, he still just kidnaps Peach. Ganondorf still just wants to rule the world, not just Hyrule.

But now we know it's because of the crush he has on here just as with Ganondorf we know it's because of Hyrule's beauty compared to the death he saw in Gerudo Desert.

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>>385119553
>I liked his WW characterization


you mean his bastardization

>>385143860
>He knew he was screwed
Ganondorf's a cocky motherfucker though, and he didn't go down without pimp slapping Zelda at least once. I think it's more likely he actually thought he had a chance.

>We see in the DS games that there are other pirates groups out causing trouble
There were, but not in the great sea, since Tetra said at the beginning of the game that whoever overtook the Forsaken Fortress was successful in chasing out all the other pirates. Plus, most pirate boats, submarines and fortresses are manned by Bokoblins, whom we know are Ganon's lackies.

>>385144258
Oh grow up, anon.

>>385144186
>Ganondorf we know it's because of Hyrule's beauty compared to the death he saw in Gerudo Desert.
What does that have to do with wanting the entire world? That's the only point I'm making here, since you claimed he didn't want the whole world. I'm saying that has always been his goal, it's never been just Hyrule.

>>385144065
>Ganondorf turned into Ganon the pig at the end of OoT
>all the other timelines split from the end of OoT
>this means there's no Ganon the pig
>???

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>>385144352

>nintendo fans arguing about age

>>385144186
>we know it's because of Hyrule's beauty compared to the death he saw in Gerudo Desert.
You're still saying this?
When that only exists in a single game?

>>385144305
>Ganondorf's a cocky motherfucker though, and he didn't go down without pimp slapping Zelda at least once. I think it's more likely he actually thought he had a chance.

He had a chance to win that fight, but after that there was nothing left for him even if he didn't drown

>There were, but not in the great sea, since Tetra said at the beginning of the game that whoever overtook the Forsaken Fortress was successful in chasing out all the other pirates. Plus, most pirate boats, submarines and fortresses are manned by Bokoblins, whom we know are Ganon's lackies.

But we also see Miniblins in ST even after he's long gone

>>385144441
And yet we never see him try to conquer anything but Hyrule. He's not going to try to conquer shit until Hyrule is his.

They could've easily had him act as the vlllain in ALBW but they had to make Yuga because Ganon wouldn't care about Lorule with Hyrule still out there

>>385144616
I'm not going to fault that single game for trying where the others gave up

>>385144501
It's about your maturity. I can't say much for the other anons in this thread, but you take the whole cake and then some.
If you're over the age of 18 and make something like the image you posted then you've proven you've got some serious issues.

>>385119820
Source? Reverse image search gives nothing.

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>>385144940

>>385144492

are you stupid or baiting?

Ganondorf turns into Ganon with Ganondorf as a vessel at the end of OOT

you "kill" Ganon with the master sword and then Zelda banishes Ganondorf in the sacred realm (the famous CURSE YOU SAGES, CURSE YOU ZELDA , CURSE YOU faggot scene )

after that there's a timeline split:

>wind waker is a sequel of OOT where link fucks off in the adult timeline so no hero rises up once ganondorf comes back from punishment, since there's no hero to kill him the goddess floods everything and ganondorf "wins" becoming bitter as the time passes since he doesn't have the land of hyrule at all and just a giant puddle of nothing

>TP is a sequel of OOT set in the timeline in which link comes back from the future and warns zelda that ganondorf will be a massive faggot in the future so the events of the future of OOT never happen and ganondorf is stopped before he can do anything, since in this timeline zelda never grew up and became powerful in time to become the sage of light the remainder sages have to straight up kill him with the faggot blade but instead of doing so they just anger his ass and then banish him in the wilight realm

those ganondorfs were all the same person, he died in every single timeline possible, he cannot be back in any shape or form, there will be nothing more than Ganon from now on, unless Ganon desides to inhabit another human, but it will never be exactly like ganondorf, just another vessel like Yuga

>>385144940
>>385145067
http://historyofhyrule.blogspot.com/2012/03/100-zelda-doujinshi-fully-scanned-and.html

Forgot Link

>>385117867

I agree, enough with the "Ganon is overused" shit. Ganon has been in half the games, but Ganondorf as a human as only been in 3, and he's the best version of Ganon. An although they're technically the same entity, Ganondorf is much more interesting. It's been nearly 11 years since TP, and it's going to be like 14-15 years since we've seen Ganondorf IF he appears in the next game.

Hyrule Warriors doesn't count btw.

>>385144757
>I'm not going to fault that single game for trying where the others gave up
Which is why you fault the game for ruining a previously established character.

>>385144853

who the fuck are you talking you you shithead my comment was directed both at you and the other anon you were shitposting to

you retards arguing about age differencies when you are both nintendo imbeciles with the maturity of a fucking kid jacking off to squid lolis make me laugh like a maniac, hang yourself fucking lmao

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>>385145147
Cheers!

>>385144757
>He had a chance to win that fight
At what moment in time? The only chance he had of actually killing them was before he assembled the Triforce, and he said he wouldn't because he already got his victory and his prize.

>But we also see Miniblins in ST even after he's long gone
We also see Moblins going rogue in Zelda 2, even without their master.

>And yet we never see him try to conquer anything but Hyrule
We almost never see anything outside of Hyrule period. How many screenshots of Ganondorf and others literally saying he wants the whole damn world do I have to post to convince you otherwise?

>>385145242

Holy shit calm down, don't prove his point

>>385144757
>And yet we never see him try to conquer anything but Hyrule
Maybe because almost all the games take place in Hyrule? Like I said, besides the Oracles games, none of the other lands are feasible.

>They could've easily had him act as the vlllain in ALBW but they had to make Yuga because Ganon wouldn't care about Lorule with Hyrule still out there
Huh? Disregarding that Ganon was dead, he did still act as a kind of villain by Yuga combining with him.

>Ganon wouldn't care about Lorule with Hyrule still out there
I feel you are making a baseless assumption here based off an interpretation of Wind Waker. There is nothing to suggest in any game, even WW that Ganondorf doesn't want to rule the entire world. You're only argument is that he doesn't just conquer shit, but that's easily explained as his planning always being to get the Triforce to do it for him as thats whats always shown.

>>385145206
>Which is why you fault the game for ruining a previously established character.

There's a reason a picture of Oot Ganondorf is used as an example of shit tier in the villains list
>>385119989
posted

>>385121307
That is literally the plot of BOTW, Link failed 100 years ago in that game that's why all his friends are dead.

>>385140212
that's just an anti-hero right?

>>385143760
How`d you be able to reach him anyway?

>>385145537
Well you can fly, can't you?

>>385140212
DmC was not a good game

ganondorf should get an edgy spinoff where you take over hyrule and link is the final boss

I hated BotW, but that has made me realise how much I really under appreciated the franchise. The prior games were so, so good (I haven't played SS or any DS games). BotW was the complete polar opposite of what I liked about it, and in not so eager for a new entry.

>>385145146
>you "kill" Ganon with the master sword and then Zelda banishes Ganondorf in the sacred realm
He just reverts back though, you didn't kill shit.

And unless "Ganon" can somehow hop between timelines, it's Ganondorf from TP who possesses his reincarnation in FSA, so he didn't completely die off there either.

>>385145363
>Maybe because almost all the games take place in Hyrule? Like I said, besides the Oracles games, none of the other lands are feasible.

Link found Termina, New Hyrule and the World of the Ocean King by traveling around aimlessly. Ganondorf could've easily found any one of them if he wanted to.

>Huh? Disregarding that Ganon was dead, he did still act as a kind of villain by Yuga combining with him.

But this is the first time he's been the puppet instead of the master, that's oddly out of character for someone established as a master of manipulation.

> that's easily explained as his planning always being to get the Triforce to do it for him as thats whats always shown.

And yet the one time he got the chance to make his wish he explicitly wished for Hyrule, and not the world

>>385145395
>There's a reason a picture of Oot Ganondorf is used as an example of shit tier in the villains list
>>>385119989
>posted
The one that clearly isn't the original, has shit tier be the same as great with different wording and has some of the worst villains as Elder God?
Also of note they put Giygas as a "natural" villain when his intent falls more in Meh and possibly high given he's completely corrupted in Earthbound.

>>385145723
What was it you liked and how was it lost in BotW?

>>385145723
You should try Phantom Hourglass, it's fun at best.

>>385145537
Ballad of the Guardians is set after the story, so you'd use Falco's "fuck you, Link!" move to break the game, or maybe even a case of using Medoh itself to get near it

>>385145703
That's pretty much how most people played Hyrule Warriors, since it was perfect for that. It really would be fun to have a Ganondorf spinoff, since even Tingle has had several by this point in time.

>>385145835
I've seen the original. He's shit there too. Evil for the sake of evil. It may have been wasted in the end, but I'll always respect Wind Waker for trying to fi it and doing a surprisingly good job. The fact that you hold this against it only shows you care less about having a good villain than Aonuma does.

>>385119176
literally worst boss in the franchise

>>385145835
Dude whether it's the original or not is irrelevant, Ganondorf is an awful in terms of characterization.
All it ever is, is
>I am evil
>give me your land

We already discussed this, it's a fucking boring archetype

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Bring back the King.

>>385146061
Not worst boss but worst Ganon for sure
Demise was a much better fight, what the fuck happened?

>>385145851
Not him, but if I were to make a list of the things I didn't like in BotW and found lackluster it would be neverending.
I liked a lot of things about the game, and I adore many things it does.
But generally it feels very lackluster. It's like they took seven or eight temples, cut them into pieces, and sprinkled them around the world as 120 short shrines and beast dungeons, which I didn't like at all.
There's a bunch more, but it's honestly a waste of time to talk about. Nobody's gonna read this anyway.

>>385146108
Finally this thread got interesting

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>>385146254
Starting with Wind Waker (A final fight whose premise and atmosphere I fucking adore.) The final fight just became an excuse to show off each game's signature combat mechanic

Wind Waker:
Parries

Twilight Princess:
Wolf form, Horseback combat, Hidden skills (finish blow)

Skyward Sword:
Skyward Strike

Breath of the Wild:
Parries, Flurry Rushes, Bullet Time

>>385145797
>Ganondorf could've easily found any one of them if he wanted to.
I'm not sure how you can come to this conclusion. We don't know exaclty how hard any of these are to find and Link simply does so for game's convenience.

>>385145797
>But this is the first time he's been the puppet instead of the master, that's oddly out of character for someone established as a master of manipulation.
And Yuga is his alternate counterpoart and probably just as good with the right preparations. I'm a little foggy, but I'm pretty sure there was some indicator that Ganon was technically in charge.

>>385145797
>And yet the one time he got the chance to make his wish he explicitly wished for Hyrule, and not the world
Which I find very odd and agree with the others that it is an out of character moment. I always chocked it up to be either something like >>385140584

or he was merely trying to revert everything back to the stage he was at at the very beginning that the opening told before the God's flooded everything.

>>385146653
That seems a bit pedantic that's like saying OoT's fight exists to show off z targeting
It's just a gameplay mechanic and not necessary to beat the boss at all

>>385145851
They're so perfectly balanced. If action and puzzles were on either paddle of a scale it would even out. My main love was always the art, music and atmosphere though. It was always so interesting and beautiful. The locations, the people, the hours lost doing quests in each village.

BotW villages didn't have that feel at all. They werent pretty, they were a bit sparse, no quests lead anywhere. They were also few and far between. It was ages if travelling between pockets of what I used to like, only not as good. Plus it looks hideous. The style had no charm for me. It's straight up worse than WW or SS.

The shrines are just tedious, as they take 1-10 minutes to finish - as long as it takes to get to them. And are all completely indistinguishable visually. Each dungeon used to be distinct, and felt nice and different to spend time in. Then there's a bunch more tedious shit (food, warmth, durability, stamina, etc).

I genuinely don't have a single good thing to say. I was so shocked by such a drastic departure from what I liked.

>>385146818
>That seems a bit pedantic that's like saying OoT's fight exists to show off z targeting

Actually it didn't as the Ganondorf fight explicitly took Z-targeting away from you, and using it against Ganon is asking to get your ass handed to you.

The ones I've listed are all pretty mandatory.

>>385146950
I know for fact that you're wrong about SS and BoTW

>>385146254
Dude, it was the worst Zelda boss in a long time, what are you talking about?
You beat the four dungeons, and all they do is just take away a chunk of the boss' health bar. and all you do really is just swing your weapons at his weak points.
It's the most boring final boss in any Zelda game so far that I can remember. They spend the entire game babbling on about calamity ganon this calamity ganon that, and building up the climax as you go through hyrule castle.
It sets you up for disappointment.

What irks me the most is how all legendary beasts do is just take away a portion of his health. It's the most uncreative and boring thing you can do to an already boring fight.

>>385146031
>The fact that you hold this against it only shows you care less about having a good villain than Aonuma does.
Are you really calling Wind Waker Ganondorf a good villain just because they gave him a hamfisted backstory?

>>385146091
> it's a fucking boring archetype
Then play a different series.
Regardless of it being a boring archetype you don't simply just change a character on a dime and give him motivations that only make sense if you disregard the previous game in it's entirety. I mean, there wasn't even a single hint towards that being the case in either game until the final scenes with Ganondorf.
I challenge you to find anything in any game that gives context to that scene.

>>385146782
>Which I find very odd and agree with the others that it is an out of character moment. I always chocked it up to be either something like or he was merely trying to revert everything back to the stage he was at at the very beginning that the opening told before the God's flooded everything.

And this question is the exact reason the Wind Monologue was put into the game.

>>385147069
Explain

>>385145892
I'd like to play a few DS games, but I font like handhelds. That's the reason I haven't played, rather than actively avoiding it. They just don't seem worth the money. I can probably name 20 games off the bat, but I reckon I'll pick a 2DS up when it's all discontinued and cheap.

>>385147183
>And this question is the exact reason the Wind Monologue was put into the game.
But I'm saying that with that logic it doesn't line up with any other depiction of Ganondorf/Ganon and is out of place.

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>When is Zelda going to have characters, writing, worldbuilding, atmosphere, and decent gameplay
Probably never at this point.

I want more evil mage villains like Vaati, except with slightly clearer backstories. There was something about him being tainted by the hearts of men but I never got exactly what that meant.

>>385145505
Read the thread
>>385121740

>>385147181
>Are you really calling Wind Waker Ganondorf a good villain just because they gave him a hamfisted backstory?

If TP, SS, and BotW had tried to build off of that story, odds are that Ganondorf would be a legitimately great villain by now.

You can see in this thread the desire for a Zelda game where Ganondorf escapes his usual role. Most of the people who feel that way do so because they liked what they saw Wind Waker trying to do and want more of it

>Then play a different series.
So now you're faulting other people for having higher standards than you do and expecting effort

>I challenge you to find anything in any game that gives context to that scene.

There is nothing because the other games got lazy with their writing of the villains. I will never hold that against Wind Waker.

>>385147382

>But I'm saying that with that logic it doesn't line up with any other depiction of Ganondorf/Ganon and is out of place.

Obviously LttP and OoT won't be retroactively rewritten to accomodate developments made in later installments of the series, but there was no excuse for them not to tie it into what we saw in TP, SS, and BotW. That's indicative of Aonuma having no interest in creating a complex, compelling, antagonist.

>>385147183
In SS you can just hit Demise until he dies without using Skyward Strike. This is how I beat him the first time I played.
In BotW similarly you can use your items and still don't have to do bullet time or anything unless you want to.
Though a boss that doesn't tes
>>385147156
There's plenty of Zelda bosses that are just three hits and it's dead and pose almost no threat.
I said boss, not final boss.

Whatever bullshit timeline diagram you want to draw make sure Skyward Sword is in its own pocket dimension surrounded by one of those impassible cylindrical barriers like the one around the Temple of Time at the bottom of the ocean in Wind Waker if a game has waggle I am not touching it I am not acknowledging it I am not giving one half of one fuck anything about it. Fuck motion controls fuck the Wii fuck the microphone on the DS bundle that shit together light it on fire and jettison it from this reality. Fuck you all.

>>385147734
You're literally wrong and didn't pay any attention to the story

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>>385147181
>Then play a different series
Grow up, dude.
As for the rest of your post, you can't fault a developer for trying to make a better character.
We've discussed this to the fullest in this thread. If you had just read it instead of dismissing and ignoring every post that argues against you, you wouldn't still be a prick.
As for context there is none. Which has already been discussed. Scroll up, man.

>>385145737
4Sword Ganon was a new Dorf

>>385147936
I was too busy playing the game to give a shit about that awful excuse of a story, one of the few things I liked about BotW, it was so open anytime I was stopped for a bullshit cutscene, I literally wanted to skip it and return to playing the game.

>>385148363
BotW's story is underrated

>>385117867

My question is when are we going to get a Zelda game that doesn't have gay ass Ganon/dorf as the villain. I want something like the Oracle Games or Majora's Mask. Hell even a BotW sequel with Vaati as the main villain would be awesome. I agree though Ganondorf >>> Ganon, except for pig Ganon, which Nintendo seems to have abandoned.

Ganondorf should be like a tall dark handsome Sasuke and he should pal around with Link for half the game doing totally not gay stuff then he should do the wrong thing for the right reasons and Link has to fight him and nothing is homoerotic about it then at the end Ganondorf redeems himself and you think he is going to die but then he does not die then Link and Ganondorf simultaneously ejaculate into Zelda while they high five.

>>385148363
>claims to know the story
>called out on it
>I skipped it anyway it's shit!
So why bother posting about the story in the first place?

>>385147923
Skyward Sword shat on the lore anyway, the motion controls are the least of its problems.

Give me a Ganon where he realizes he's a reincarnation stuck in a cycle to always lose to the Hero and wants to wipe out existence.

>>385148236
FSA was old Dorf into new Dorf.

>>385147769
Why should they have to tie it in when it is the sole example? TP (Which shouldn't of had Ganondorf) and BotW both follow more on what Ganon/dorf is from the previous fames. SS is a completely different type of thing so I won't delve into that.

I also don't understand why you need a complex antagonist to have it be compelling?

>>385147923
The motion controls are the least of SS's problems though, just like touchscreen is the least of PH/ST problems.

>>385148724
>>385148724
>BotW both follow more on what Ganon/dorf is from the previous fames. SS is a completely different type of thing so I won't delve into that.

That's the problem they intentionally retcon his development instead of writing the antagonists in a way to accomodate both.

>I also don't understand why you need a complex antagonist to have it be compelling?

The Ganons outside of Wind Waker are neither.

>>385147769
>If TP, SS, and BotW had tried to build off of that story, odds are that Ganondorf would be a legitimately great villain by now.
No, that would have only served to create a rift between the new and old games. Now, if they had slowly developed him from Wind Waker and mentioned things like the darker side of Hylian society and mentioned how it was hidden from his people through lore books or such then you could say that but as it stands Wind Waker rushed out a change that as you remember, was not taken well by the fans and still isn't by the looks of this thread.

>So now you're faulting other people for having higher standards than you do and expecting effort
You're defending poor writing and lack of sensible development. Sensible being a key word there.
That's not exactly a sign of high standards by any means when you're willing to accept something just because it's there.

>There is nothing because the other games got lazy with their writing of the villains
We're only talking about Ganondorf here and that's because Wind Waker's characterization was completely random.

>>385148989
>The Ganons outside of Wind Waker are neither.
You've just outright ignored his question.

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>>385148989
>That's the problem they intentionally retcon his development instead of writing the antagonists in a way to accommodate both.
But they don't? Based of what you said, the WW scene would be the one retconing previous games in order to fit what they made instead of accommodating both. BotW and TP are both just continuing what was already pre-established.

>The Ganons outside of Wind Waker are neither.
That's like, your opinion man.

>>385149231
>No, that would have only served to create a rift between the new and old games.

It's a universally accepted fact that modern games have more emphasis on story telling than those from the 16-bit days. There'd be no rift because people would natural expect the characters and villains to develop

>We're only talking about Ganondorf here and that's because Wind Waker's characterization was completely random.

Except it was specifically chosen to tie into the larger themes of Wind Waker and serve as the backbone of the strongest ending the series has given us

>was not taken well by the fans and still isn't by the looks of this thread.

Stop reading your own posts

>>385149486
It wasn't a question.

>>385149546
>But they don't? Based of what you said, the WW scene would be the one retconing previous games in order to fit what they made instead of accommodating both. BotW and TP are both just continuing what was already pre-established.

TP ties into the child ending of OoT, WW ties into the adult ending

As for BotW I'd like you to remind me of when the old Zelda games had Ganon as a mindless, laser shooting, spider robot?

>>385148989
Not that Wind Waker Ganon is a compelling antagonist either seeing as they ruined everything everyone wanted out of Ganondorf and made him far less imposing as a character. Also no Ganon at all.

>>385150089
>>385150089
>as they ruined everything everyone wanted out of Ganondorf and made him far less imposing as a character.

[citation needed]

You're so deluded you've now projected your personal feelings to everyone on the planet

>>385150076
>TP ties into the child ending of OoT, WW ties into the adult ending
Okay? Why does that matter at all? TP he is more in line with what has been established.

>old Zelda games had Ganon as a mindless, laser shooting, spider robot?
Oracles had him as a mindless beast becasue the reviving ritual was incomplete. In BotW you interrupt his reviving and is thus incomplete and mindless.

>>385150635
>Okay? Why does that matter at all? TP he is more in line with what has been established.

He never got his asked kicked and spent thousands of years sealed away


>Oracles had him as a mindless beast becasue the reviving ritual was incomplete. In BotW you interrupt his reviving and is thus incomplete and mindless.

From what BotW tells us he was mindless anyway because he had turned into pure malice

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>>385150759
>He never got his asked kicked and spent thousands of years sealed away
But his plans were still foiled and he still was sealed away for a long period of time.

>rom what BotW tells us he was mindless anyway because he had turned into pure malice
Source? I've found that "his transformation into Malice created the horror you see now", but no where does that indicate he is mindless. The BotW slides even match up to the ones in WW.

>>385151184
>But his plans were still foiled and he still was sealed away for a long period of time.

But he was stopped pre-emptively because of Young Link's warning. It was just him getting sidetracked

>Source? I've found that "his transformation into Malice created the horror you see now", but no where does that indicate he is mindless. The BotW slides even match up to the ones in WW.

That was my interpretation that was reinforced to me by the fact that he doesn't have a word of dialogue despite beast Ganon being capable of speech in past games.

He also only seeks to destroy when past Ganons wished to conquer.

If you can prove me wrong go ahead. I'd love to believe BotW Ganon wasn't as shitty as he looked to me.

>>385150076
>There'd be no rift because people would natural expect the characters and villains to develop
You're really trying to say that fans of the series should accept a complete 180 of Ganondorf's character solely because storytelling in video games is evolving?
Especially the Zelda fanbase who holds Ganondorf to certain standards that weren't met by the Wind Waker version?
Again you're just accepting it because it's there rather than it being good and often a consistent simplicity is better than inconsistent "depth".

>Except it was specifically chosen to tie into the larger themes of Wind Waker
Then instead of making Ganondorf a character who only wants freedom, that he previously had and threw away mind you, make him want to corrupt the life on the Great Sea and experience what he did in the past as well as giving the player more insight into the true goings on in Hyrule concerning the Gerudo.
Basically tie it into the existing character don't make it a new one.

Imagine it this way wouldn't the scene have far more of an impact with something like
>Do you know why I sought the Triforce all those years ago?
>It was the Hylians
>Before the great civil war our tribe was accepting of outsiders existing in a tranquil oasis in the desert
>Then they attacked us out of fear of our skills
>They ravaged our lands and turned it into a sea of death
>I held on to this anger and pain and vowed to make them feel the pain of their own atrocities
And so on.
That's how Ganondorf should have been written in Wind Waker.

>and serve as the backbone of the strongest ending the series has given us
It's the weakest thus far in nearly every area, the final boss fight was visually underwhelming and lacked the grand ending seen in other Zelda games, didn't feature a version of Ganon and once more ruined Ganondorf as a character due to the change in motivation.

>all these people wanting a 2deep4u story in Zelda
Zelda is about the adventure not the backstory

>>385146031
>The fact that you hold this against it only shows you care less about having a good villain than Aonuma does.

>saying this while praising Aonuma's handiwork
He was the fucking director of Wind Waker you tard

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>>385151517
>But he was stopped pre-emptively because of Young Link's warning. It was just him getting sidetracked
I'm still failing to see where you are trying to go with this.

>He also only seeks to destroy when past Ganons wished to conquer.
When Ganon conquers we've seen how he typically doesn't give a shit how much is really intact or what exactly he is ruling over. And like I said prior, Oracles games do the exact same thing when you interrupt his revival. Who knows what would of happened had Zelda not been staving him off or Link hadn't shown up to the castle.

>>385152002
>all these people
It's literally one guy.

>>385151791
>You're really trying to say that fans of the series should accept a complete 180 of Ganondorf's character solely because storytelling in video games is evolving?

Considering what's happened with the timeline, I'm sure they would've adapted. Especially if time and effort were put into it.

>Especially the Zelda fanbase who holds Ganondorf to certain standards that weren't met by the Wind Waker version?

What standards?

>That's how Ganondorf should have been written in Wind Waker.

>Accuses Ganondorf's 60 second monologue of being jarring and inconsistent
>proposes a different version that would be far more jarring and inconsistent (the series never portrays Hylians in a negative light)

Okay

>It's the weakest thus far in nearly every area, the final boss fight was visually underwhelming and lacked the grand ending seen in other Zelda games,

Now I know you're full of shit. Praise has been heaped on it for the finishing blow alone.

>>385152171
He was the director of Wind Waker, things went to shit when he moved to producing while Fujibayashi directs


>>385152275
>I'm still failing to see where you are trying to go with this.

He had never fought and been defeated by Link and Zelda. In Wind Waker Ganon expresses an interest in Link because he remembers the hero of time. In Twilight Princess he doesn't care about Link one bit.

>>385152591
We're all anonymous there's literally no way to tell

>>385152792
>He had never fought and been defeated by Link and Zelda. In Wind Waker Ganon expresses an interest in Link because he remembers the hero of time. In Twilight Princess he doesn't care about Link one bit.
But what does that have to do with WW Ganon's motivation not lining up with the previous versions? Or TP fitting more with the previous ones than WW? This seems like a irrelevant chain.

>>385153238
>But what does that have to do with WW Ganon's motivation not lining up with the previous versions? Or TP fitting more with the previous ones than WW? This seems like a irrelevant chain.

WW Ganon's demeanor is in part developed by the events of OoT that never happened as far as tP is concerned.

>>385119553
I see Ganondorf as a dude who would spit in Demise´s face if he had the chance
Even if Demise is the source of his birth.

>>385153315
>WW Ganon's demeanor is in part developed by the events of OoT that never happened as far as tP is concerned.
And what does that have to do with his motivation going from whole world to solely Hyrule? Up until the wish, WW Ganondorf has remained pretty consistent with the others. It's only the wish that doesn't make sense in my books.

>>385153639
>Up until the wish, WW Ganondorf has remained pretty consistent with the others. It's only the wish that doesn't make sense in my books.

Seeing Hyrule flooded and abandoned gave him a sense of perspective on what he really wanted

>>385152792
>Considering what's happened with the timeline, I'm sure they would've adapted.
The problem with the timeline is that it's just that, a written timeline with barely any ties to the games themselves. As for the adaptation, people still don't like WW Ganondorf that should show you how things would have gone.

>What standards?
Pay attention to the thread anon.

>>proposes a different version that would be far more jarring and inconsistent
How is that jarring by any means?
We knew there was a Hylian Civil war that also took Link's mother and it would put reason to both the Gerudo's distrust of outsiders and their status as thieves.
>(the series never portrays Hylians in a negative light)
Which is part of that development you're yearning for anon. On top of retaining Ganondorf's previous character it gives the player more information about Hyrule and how much the Gods would have put up with when it came to the Hylians essentially making Ganondorf's second coming a last straw situation.

Wind Waker's Ganondorf as it stands contradicts everything about Ganon as a whole.

> Praise has been heaped on it for the finishing blow alone.
From where exactly? The game did eventually receive praise but rarely has any of it been directed towards the ending.

>>385153743
>Compleltely unchanged in almost all aspects
>Perspective is that he doesn't want to rule the whole world, just Hyrule
>Despite still being an evil tyrant obsessed with gaining power.
That's silly. It reminds me of what Disney did with Maleficent.

>>385153205
You say that but when one guy is making replies to several people constantly spouting the same thing it's easy to point out.

>>385154125
>As for the adaptation, people still don't like WW Ganondorf that should show you how things would have gone

Why are you so obsessed with proving your opinion is the majority. I'm not even going to waste any time on the rest of your bullshit until you answer this. Just admit that YOU didn't like Wind Waker. Why do you need to try and speak for strangers.

>>385154337
Majora's Mask is literally the most popular Zelda game on /v/. Most people here like the 2deep4u stuff.

>>385154412
>Why are you so obsessed with proving your opinion is the majority.
It's been the majority opinion for years now anon. The ending of Wind Waker was extremely poorly recieved.
> Just admit that YOU didn't like Wind Waker.
Yes because one bad aspect at the end makes the entirety of a game irredeemable. Now who's trying to "speak for strangers".

Oh yeah and I should mention that my Wind Waker story suggestion goes on the idea at the time that OoT was the very beginning.

>>385154927
>The ending of Wind Waker was extremely poorly recieved.

[citation needed]

>Yes because one bad aspect at the end makes the entirety of a game irredeemable. Now who's trying to "speak for strangers".

The ending of Wind Waker is the culmination of everything that made the game work up until then and is the game's strongest moment thematically. I'm amazed someone managed to like Wind Waker up until that point and then turn on the ending

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll4u9eqQ7fo&t=4h34m13s

Even the speedrunner at AGDQ, whose job it normally is to hammer through the dialogue as fast as possible, went out of his way to say how much he liked that scene

>>385129528
I wouldn't necessarily say that was the case. Bloodborne's Ludwig regained his sanity mid-way through the fight and became a much more dangerous opponent as a result.

>>385155480
>The ending of Wind Waker is the culmination of everything that made the game work up until then
I hope you're kidding because the only thing that tied Ganondorf's motivations to the theme of the game is his mention of the wind bringing death to the Gerudo homelands which goes against what we've seen in OoT.
It also highlighted his stupidity of not just moving his people to a more habitable spot.
>went out of his way to say how much he liked that scene
You do realise that multiple people can share an opinion despite it being in the minority right? Case in point, people liking Ganondorf's characterization.
Also if you watch that guy essentially spouts nothings about it being "deep" instead of how it ties into the story thus far.

>>385152792
>things went to shit when he [stopped directing]
Stop posting Sean.

>>385157402
>It also highlighted his stupidity of not just moving his people to a more habitable spot.

There's a reason he wound up with the Triforce of Power

>You do realise that multiple people can share an opinion despite it being in the minority right?

I can post several other vids praising that scene. Can you offer up anything besides anonymous shitposting?

>Also if you watch that guy essentially spouts nothings about it being "deep" instead of how it ties into the story thus far.

People can have different interpretations while still liking it. I've seen people interpret the final fight as Ganondorf using Link for assisted suicide. Being able to talk so much about such a short sequence is part of what makes it so enjoyable

>>385158650
>There's a reason he wound up with the Triforce of Power
Power doesn't mean you're completely devoid of intelligence anon, it means it's your dominant trait. Unless you're trying to say that Link is both weak and borderline retarded and Zelda is as frail as a newborn and always runs away from a fight.

>I can post several other vids praising that scene. Can you offer up anything besides anonymous shitposting?
Beyond the various forum posts that you'll immediately discard because they're forum posts? No.

>Being able to talk so much about such a short sequence is part of what makes it so enjoyable
You're not talking about that scene any more once you delve into suicides and what not especially when they have a means of granting wishes. When you reach that point you're just going over personal headcanons.

>>385159054
>didn't tap that Malon moomoo milk
>not borderline retarded

>>385159054
>Power doesn't mean you're completely devoid of intelligence anon, it means it's your dominant trait. Unless you're trying to say that Link is both weak and borderline retarded and Zelda is as frail as a newborn and always runs away from a fight.

Greed clouds peoples' judgment. This is not something exclusive to fiction

>Beyond the various forum posts that you'll immediately discard because they're forum posts? No.

Then where could you possibly get the notion that the ending of Wind Waker was mostly hated?

>You're not talking about that scene any more once you delve into suicides and what not especially when they have a means of granting wishes. When you reach that point you're just going over personal headcanons.

Now I get the way you think. You want Ganondorf to be as straightforward of a villain because anything with subtlety or nuance that requires discussion is just "headcanon".

>>385159397
but he did

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>>385159949
>anything with subtlety or nuance that requires discussion is just "headcanon".
You one of those kinds of people aren't you

>>385160092
>Insults the teacher for having her opinion because apparently the creator of the image is a mind reader and always knows what the author means

>>385160329
Ah so you are. That clears everything up then.

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>>385146108
Took long enough

>>385160604
Yes, this whole discussion has centered around the fact that I think Zelda could use smarter writing and you don't

Am I the only one who actually likes OoT Ganondorf more than WW Ganondorf? In WW, his primary motive is jealousy. In OoT, it's megalomania. I think megalomania is a lot cooler than jealousy.

>>385160940
They both work for their respective games.

What I hate is that the series completely forgot that OoT Dorf grew a mullet during the seven year skip

>>385159949
>Greed clouds peoples' judgment.
That's the thing, Wind Waker makes it less greed and more envy the problem there is that there was no reason to be envious because he was free to move the Gerudo to the better parts of Hyrule.
With that said it's idiotic to make the clouded aspect be his ambition rather than say how his people feel about abandoning their homes and traditions.

Are you starting to get this yet?

>Then where could you possibly get the notion that the ending of Wind Waker was mostly hated?
Maybe both the initial reception of the game as well as recent discussions about the ending being subpar on said forums as well as my own anecdotal conversations.

>You want Ganondorf to be as straightforward of a villain
How did you even come to that conclusion? Have you not been reading this thread?
Personally I don't mind an addition to Ganondorf's character but it has to make sense. Wind Waker was more of a light retconning of Ganondorf rather than expanding upon him.
>because anything with subtlety or nuance that requires discussion is just "headcanon".
Not that Wind Waker had any "subtlety or nuance".

>>385159949
Not in any of the timelines
Link does not deserve milky

>>385161587
>Not that Wind Waker had any "subtlety or nuance".

This thread has been debating the story for over 8 hours. That point has proved itself

>>385118919
>might as well be
Shoot yourself you 14 year old nigger.

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>>385148609
Because it was that uninteresting compared to the game, and I did pay attention to it. I didn't care about Zelda's shitty situation, I laughed at how stern she was towards Link only for her to be just as useless as damn near every other game beforehand and people have the nerve to call her the best Zelda yet.

When we get a Zelda like Tetra or pic related, call me.

>>385161812
When people ask for a recommendation for which Zelda game to play first, do you see more answers saying Zelda 1 or Ocarina of Time?

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>>385161983
Tetra and ST Zelda are cute as fuck, but BotW Zelda is clearly the one the most effort went into writing

>>385161756
>This thread has been debating the story for over 8 hours. That point has proved itself
You're right, the fact that multiple people have been telling you the same thing about how out of character Ganondorf in Wind Waker for 8 hours is a sign that it lacks subtlety and nuance.

>>385162259
>You're right, the fact that multiple people have been telling you the same thing about how out of character Ganondorf in Wind Waker for 8 hours is a sign that it lacks subtlety and nuance.

If everybody agrees on a plot point, then it probably wasn't subtle. The first thing I brought up was how I knew most of the fanbase didn't get it. I never expected to change that

>>385163943
>The first thing I brought up was how I knew most of the fanbase didn't get it
You do realise there's a difference between understanding and liking right?

>>385164254
Yes, and?

>>385119820
This shit don't make sense
And yet... against the Gods who drowned Hyrule
Fighting against their God given destiny
And clings to it... the one who seeks the Gods power
Is me

Can someone explain this to me?