What is it about the MOBA genre that brings out the most vile

>>384977707
It's pretty simple. When you invest 1 hour into every match combined with the snowball nature of the genre it leads to frustration. Nobody wants to be in a game where your teammate feeds mid 14 times and you still have another 50 minutes to go in the game before you can just play another match that's less shit

>>384977707

it's a team-based genre that solo carrying is hard to do in.

a good player in a FPS can dominate a game solo. fighters and most sports games are solo endeavors where your fuckups are 100% on you and your personal skill. MMO players generally have pre-existing relationships with their group mates and any major fuckup that causes raid wipes is generally more than one single person's fault.

in MOBAs you're thrown into a game with another 4 random retards that you NEED to rely on to win. any fuck up from one person can easily throw the entire match for everyone involved.

because its team-based

>>384977707
Meta is another thing. People want you to play the way pros play because they take what pros do as gospel and anything that that doesn't go with it is blasphemy. Some people have the mindset that if you pick something that is not strong overpowered currently, they have already lost the game based on their team mates choices, which is out of their control.

>>384977878

I like to think that MOBAs are akin to a dance recital or a play. Everyone gets together and acts out their role as best they can. The closer they follow their script the better they do.

Because of this as soon as someone on your team breaks character the entire thing falls apart at which point there's no real reason to keep on giving it your best. Then a combination of boredom and frustration along with no real obligation to these 4 randos for the next 30 minutes leads people to be shitheads to gain some sense of petty revenge.

>>384977707
>team based
>long games
>top down perspective lets you watch what your allies are doing differently from you, and different always equals bad from the community's perspective
>not very fun to play a losing game for 30 minutes

>>384978957
t. "Creative" faggot

the games are long and your success partially hinges on your teammates being well. the longer a game lasts, the more opportunities you all have to choke, and the bigger the investment is that you are losing.

>>384978957

If I'm playing with a bunch of random faggots and XXXK1LL3R69XXXD picks Bard I'd be pretty salty before the game even started.

>>384979890
I've only played Overwatch which is pretty much a moba. But your reaction is case in point.

>>384980380
overwatch is a class based shooter, just an ultra casual one

>>384978957
I agree with this.

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>>384977707
>toxic
Can you stop propagating this shitty meme-word OP?

If you don't like what a player is saying just fucking mute them. And if the game you're playing doesn't have a mute function it's badly designed.

>>384980145
Wow, someone has played with some bad bards.

What did bingbong do to hurt you anon?

The Russians that infest western servers.
>"glhf"
>cyka blyat putin for the motherland vodka cyka ak47 potato juice cyka
Removing the teamplay from team games since time immortal.

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i only ever play games like dota with friends anyway

what's the point in playing with 4 other people who probably don't even want to work together or communicate properly anyway?

>>384977707
It's pretty easy
>it's team based and your mates are random
>one game can take up to 1 hour of your lifetime.

>>384977707
Its a team based game that mainly got popular because people like to dickstroke themselves carrying multiple people against other people.

>>384982407
look at all those friends

colour me impressed

>>384981992
I agree with him, bard is the kind of support that can actively sabotage you if played poorly

>>384981772
The term toxic is used because bad behavior propagates, it doesn't just fart out and stink for a bit and then leave, it has an overwhelming tendency to drag down the quality of social interaction in a lasting manner.

>>384977707
I really think the problem comes from if you fuck up and die, the other team becomes stronger for it. So if you're in a lane and have a pretty even matchup, but your other lane keeps dying, it means you have to pick up the teammate that keeps fucking up. It means if someone fucks up, the whole team has to pick up the slack and play out of their comfort zone to try and get the lead again. I don't play MMO's but the other games you listed, the other team doesn't get stronger when you die. Losing a round in a fighter doesn't matter next round since it's back to square 1, sports games you get the ball back with your own chance to score most of the time, and shooters usually are multi-round which all start out on equal footing, with the only exception I can think of being counter-strike, and then you can full buy a couple rounds after. In a moba, if someone gets a couple kills on your teammate, you now actively have to look out for that enemy constantly while trying to even the strength, causing you to play aggressive and possibly adding to the enemy strength.

As I like to explain it to normies:
Mobas are a team based game where you cooperate with 4 other players you usually do not know for an average of 45 minutes per match. It's just like a car rally with the exception that one of you steers, one accelerate, one breaks, one shifts gear, the last navigates and everyone hates each other.
When everything aligns (about a tenth of the time) or when you play with a set group that know their role it is extremely rewarding.
Most of the time though you'd rather get butt fucked by two niggers than play this human experiment.

>>384977707
>toxic
go back

>>384977707
Lock 10 man-children with varying degrees of social ineptitude in a pressure cooker for 50 minutes and don't pay them.

>>384981772
toxic goes beyond chat comments.

A toxic player can make an easy 2v2 into a 1v2 by underestimating its team mate. He can afk because the game doesn't unfold the way he wants it to unfold. He can feed the other side out of spite. He can KS the carries because he thinks the kill will serve him better. He can abandon his position because he judges jungle didn't assist him enough.

It goes on and on and on way beyond stupid chat insults.

It's the part game of rts...
Dota and lol ruined the original mod.

>>384977707
a) team based
b) gameplay is building incremental advantages
c) can last upward of 1 hour
Do the fucking math.

Used to play a lot of moba. The reason why is because games takes too long. Wasting 40mins to 1hr of your life on shitty game/matches will take a toll on anyone. Even the most patient of gamers.

However I could redpill you on a mobile moba game and why it's superior to PC moba especially to the toxic problem.

>>384986978
Wow what the fuck happened. Lost a few words and formatting now sucks.

>>384982090
>potato juice
Where does it come from? No one drinks it in Russia. Fish eggs, rotten mushroom drink, meat jelly, birch juice - yes. But potato juice?

Team based, snowball game, that requires complex teamwork and maneuvers.

combine that with third world shitskins

>>384977707
>get stuck with 4 other people that you cant even see or touch
>expect them to perform properly
This shit wouldnt happen in lan games.

The internet and its anonymity brings out the worst in people. Its literally the entire reason we have /pol/ and /b/

Because "team based games" is just another way of saying 'you have to depend on 4-5 other retards to have fun/win'.

On top of that, most normal people arent gonna take shit from complete strangers over the internet, they will always assume they are better and the stranger is worse, I've certainly done so many times. Unless the person is a massive beta theyre not gonna stand down against some random cunt in a video game

>>384977707
there is nothing to "bring out". only certain types of people play mobas, and that's how they behave. it has been that way since war3 dota

>>384978607
It's not nearly as bad in LoL and DotA as it is in Overwatch or HotS though, which makes me think it's not really about that.

I'd say it's about non-accountability, people fucking up automatically try to shift the blame to whoever is not himself, which makes him feel that he gets paired with retards and lose because of it, this repeats again and again and again since he is by definition a scrub (someone who doesn't learn from his mistakes).

So imagine you are playing a game in which when you win it's solely because you carry the weight of the whole team and when you lose it's never your fault, that does sound kind of like hell.

>>384977707
The autism of an RTS with the hyper competitiveness of sports.

The perfect storm of faggotry.

>>384988396
Except it doesnt happen with sc2, which do believe me has a great deal of autism AND competitiveness

>>384988310
This fucking shit right here. This is why people get so mad at mobas.
Not because bullshit like "the games are long"
It's because 99 percent of the playerbase will never admit fault and take the blame for the game. The anger that they're feeling towards others is (the vast majority of the time) misdirected anger that they aren't good enough to have a large impact on the game.

>>384986978
Is it Vain Glory

>>384978957
as someone who ended up getting banned by the tribunal because i got mass reported for playing twitch jungle

yes. this entirely.

and yes i am still salty about that, it made me quit league for like 2 years... why can't i just quit this game for good. i bring it out 1-2 times a month for a couple games

>>384977707
The same thing in pretty much every modern multiplayer: the focus in e-sports and conpetitivity, that make think all kids and manchildren they will be world champions, and the only thing is pushing them back is their teammates.

>High team based game
>Where individuals are praised on the scoreboard
>Games take 1 hour and one mistake can cost your team the match
>Make some characters braindead and others highly difficult to use

Its just bad game design.
It shouldn't exist.

>>384987767
vodka is often distilled from potatoes.

Snowballing factor
Heroes of the Storm causes less buttpain than Dota and League because snowballing is less pronounced
When you become weaker because of your teammates, you become asshurt fucklord the maximus

>>384977707
It must have something to do with the sense of futility that you feel when you're behind.

It's a highly competitive game where falling behind really, really sucks.

you can lose the 1 hour long game at minute 10 because of the actions of some other player (but lets be honest you also didn't play that good either) but you have to commit to the game or else you end up playing in low priority with game throwers and it becomes a vicious cycle.

also, in dota the fact that roxhan is not in the middle of the map makes the map assymetrical but that would leave you with no middle lane. you can have an assymetrical map and be more balance if both teams changed sides at one point (first to 16 in counter strike but at round 15 you change sides, meaning if a map is more advantageous to the terrorists to win you still need to win in a best case scenario a round as the disadvantaged counter terrorists), but that would require playing more than one match of dota to win a game.

>>384991519
>also, in dota the fact that roxhan is not in the middle of the map makes the map assymetrical

Roshan is in the river now.

I mean it's not exactly the center of the map, but it's a fair point between both sides honestly.

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It sucks that MOBAs as a genre are so toxic. You run into the saltiest fucks in the universe who think they know whats best for everyone when they can't practice what they preach. But you can also find some of the most genuine people out there who can make a losing game enjoyable. Too bad the most cancerous people force everyone else to either ditch MOBAs all together or join the ranks of toxic degenerates.

>>384978957
Play that shit in unranked then, that mode is literally for people like you.

The obtuse, unintuitive game mechanics and enormous base of meta knowledge required to play the game filters out all the relaxed, "casual' types of players until all that's left is the those who try the hardest and want to win above all else. Leads to a community of really angry tryhards.

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>>384992115
>the most popular tutorial for dota starts with a warning that by you being new to the game and not being awared of what everything does you really just ruined the fun of everyone in your team. so go play with bots on easy until you learn the basics but you will still suck.

>>384992302
There are two people in Heroes of the Storm in terms of that.

>People like Me and good players
Oh gee I wanna learn Gul'Dan! Ok first lemme check him on Icy veins to see his popular builds and make sure they're up to date, then go into vs ai co-op a few times to get used to his kit and playstyle in general along side the builds. Then maybe check the details of his talents in icy veins to look for situational talent picks so I understand what they are, THEN after I feel I'm comfortable with Gul'Dan's playstyle, and understand how his builds work, then I'll enter a QM match and try him out in full!

>Shitters
Wow Gul'Dan looks soo cool! I'm just gonna pick him for QM without knowing ANYTHING aside from what I read in his ability and talent drop down. What's the WORST that can happen?

>>384977707
Is it just me, or is teamwork in video games kinda overrated? There's no way for me to gauge my skill if I have allies interfering with my encounters.

>>384988310
>>384988545
it's also because the match is 50 minutes and you can't quit.

If you are losing hard in a fps and you feel like tilting you can simply quit with no consequences. Mobas instead punish you and punish hard, so even if you don't feel ike playing anymore you just HAVE TO.

>>384982407
You can play with friends if you have good friends or have the kind of personality that doesn't care if one of your friend critics everyone (except himself of course).

>>384992985
>What's the WORST that can happen?
you lose a fucking game.
It's not like you lose your fucking life you know
IT'S VIDEO GAMES
STOP TAKING THEM SO SERIOUSLY
HAVE FUN FOR FUCK SAKE

>>384993602
one of my friends is like that, losing hard on top lane because he's too busy getting mad telling everyone what they should do and how they are doing it wrong.
Fuck you Alex, think at how you are playing instead of feeding first blood and losing top at 8 minutes because you are looking at reasons to get mad

>>384982407
Playing with friends is awful if they can't follow basic directions. I honestly enjoy playing League alone but playing with anyone I know is agonizing.

I understand that middle lane is shorter but what's the difference between top and bottom lane?

>>384994310
Ganking angles and objectives.

>>384994310
dragon.

dragon used to just give gold to the team who killed it and it was a lot easier to kill, so people put their duo-lane bot.

>>384993658
If it were TF2 and I could leave a bad game to enter a better game, that would be nice.

But this is Blizzard and Heroes, you get leaver status if you do that, and I don't like dealing with it. So I learn to just deal with bad games with patience and complain to myself post-match.

But on topic, my post was just a matter of "If you can't be bothered to take a moment to LEARN a hero a little bit before you go into a game with other players to waste their time, then you really shouldn't be playing Mobas".

You see that shit with Nova alot! She's not a standard DPS, she's a high burst potential ranged whose supposed to hit and run back into Stealth to hit and run again and again, using One in the chamber to empower her burst.

She isn't a soaker that get's bribes, or someone who keeps wasting time out of stealth to get ganked. The enemy should be wasting their abilities on your hologram, not you.

>>384994310
Depends on the game.

In Dota, bottom lane for sentinel was the "safe lane" because there's a creep camp near the lane that you can use to pull creep wave closer to your tower. Of course, this logic is the same for scourge except in reverse(top lane is their safe lane etc). This shit probably changed by now since I havent played in over a year

In LoL, bottom lane is always the duo lane because thats where the dragon is nearer. Putting duo at bot makes it easier to take or contest the dragon buff. This is also why the top laner usually takes teleport

>>384994548
>This shit probably changed by now since I havent played in over a year

Still applies

Offlaning is easier now, but it still works like that

>>384977878
>>384978607
>>384978957
>>384979647
>>384979880
This but in addition, the MOBA genre is an awful game concept. You take the top down perspective of an RTS but remove everything that makes an RTS such a high skillcap game. No macro, only one unit to control. In an RTS you move units and then rightclick what you want them to attack. And then there's a bunch of macro on top of that. In a MOBA you move your own unit frenetically by mass spam clicking even though it doesn't accomplish much, and then you right click what you want to attack. Okay, you have 4 abilities too. 2 of which are also point and clicks, one is an active that gives you X amount of stats for X amount of time, and the last one is a skillshot. There is not very much you can do in a MOBA, especially League. There is only so much you can do to express your skill. So you have to rely on teammates because solo carrying is impossible.

>>384994657
That being said, I think MOBAs are 'fun with friends', as much as /v/ might hate that phrase, they really are. It's the only fun you'll get out of a MOBA. Trying to play the game on your own is suffering, because there's no fun to be gained from those games where you can't do anything.

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>>384977707
I played FF14 before LoL and everyone on there talked shit about LoL players being toxic.

I show up to LoL and they're way better behaved than FF14 fuckers.

Go figure.

>>384977707
>It's almost exclusive to this genre. Fighting games, sports games, shooters, MMO's, etc. may frustrate you at times, but you don't ever get close to the pure burning hatred emotion that a MOBA can cause.
Moment!! Here i fix that for you.
>It's NOT exclusive to this genre. Fighting games, sports games, shooters, MMO's, etc. frustrate you at times, but you get the SAME pure burning hatred emotion that a MOBA can cause.

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I love mobas because I love the support class. I like healing and being helpful and seeing my team do well.

I've managed to avoid most of the bad attitudes by being polite myself first.

The idea that you're reliant on people being frustrating is true, and I think where a lot of the bad attitudes come from, and people blaming others before themselves too, as others have said.

>>384994730
Who's this fluid druid

>>384977707
It's a team game where you actually have to depend on your teammates. Also at least in DOTA you probably need to lose some to win some, and that can be hard to deal with if you're used to playing games in a way where you always win everything and load the quicksave if you didn't.

It's also co-op strategy and if you don't have an agreed upon game plan (like in pubs you usually don't) then every setback will seem to you like they were caused by somebody else not following YOUR perfect game plan.

>>384977878
Which is why heroes of the storm is the best MOBA. Matches are only 20 or so minutest

If you aren't willing to invest the time into a MOBA, it isn't the game for you. I found that out the hard way. I played dota for about 300 hours until I decided: 'You know what? I fucking hate this game' I didn't play it to have fun, I thought I was having fun because I played it with my friends, but all we did is get angry at each other. They are stil playing it but honestly I'm glad I quit.

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>>384979647
>when one starts to improv and it works out