It's time to discuss the best Team Fortress 2 Thread ever

when the fuck is the update

>>384856487
next week

>>384856487
Tonight

>>384856487
NEVER EVER

>>384856487
3 minutes ago, check your steam downloads :)

>bought an "Allied Healing" strange part off the community market for my new strange medi gun
>didn't realize the weapon already came with that tracker
Fug. What do I do with this now?

>>384857262
sell it for a profit

>>384857262
trade it for a profit

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Medic nerf/rework to be more fun and less powerful when?
Engineer and Heavy rework to be more fun/offensive and less defensive/stalemate inducing when?
Pyro rework/buff to be more skillful/powerful when?
Spy buff to be a better support for his team when?

How would you make Spy a better support?

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*charges toward you*

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>people call the dead ringer nerfs unfair

>>384858601
>it's a "3 spies completely tearing apart your defending payload team because no one can be bothered to turn around and spycheck, nor can the spies be gotten rid from the back because of Cancer Ringer" episode

>>384858601
I mean, it is already Spy's weakest Watch for actually playing the game seriously rather than shitting on braindead F2Ps.
It needed a rework, not a nerf.

>>384857559
the most obvious way to make spy more supportive (and have him remain thematic) is to have him relay enemy positions through skillful actions

like a revolver that outlines a player for 10 seconds when they're shot at the cost of -15% damage

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>>384857704

>>384857559
>>384859138
The most logical way to make Spy a better support role is to simply give him better support tools. His Sapper is a terrible weapon when you get down to it because it only exisst to fight of a single type of class, but if said class is protected or nobody is even playing it you basically have an empty slot.

He needs unlocks for his secondary slot that are actual effective support tools. Something like Sombara's medkit hack ability would do wonders for Spy.

>tfw sold my unusual hat for ~$80 two years ago during a steam sale so I could buy a fuckton of games and I figured I wouldnt play tf2 again.
>tfw want to play tf2 again and have no desire to play those games I bought 2 years ago during the steam sale

it hurts

>>384859703
what was it?

>>384859913
It was a Blizzardy Storm medieval medic helmet.
I had a whole ensemble with the sweater and festive weapons.
I still have the weapons and the sweater but it doesnt feel right without my snowy helmet.

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>>384859138
>like a revolver that outlines a player for 10 seconds when they're shot at the cost of -15% damage
Yeah I could go for this
Although make it a different downside than reduced damage, since Diamondback and L'Etranger and Enforcer and Ambassador all already have that "reduced damage" downside
>>384859601
>but if said class is protected or nobody is even playing it you basically have an empty slot.
So what other things could the FM Sapper do to things that aren't Sentries?

>>384860080
>Blizzardy Storm
I'm sorry for your lo-
>medieval medic helmet
nevermind

TONIGHT'S

>>384860091
>So what other things could the FM Sapper do to things that aren't Sentries?
Like I said, Overwatch's "sapping medkits" idea is a neat one. Alternatively, you can lead the sapper as is and give him more diverse unlocks. Maybe like a Smoke bomb that only your teammates could see through, or the ability to carry health packs and ammunition and give them to team mates, or a weapon that gives debuffs to enemies.

>>384860374
THE

why are they ruining the ambassador

>>384857243
Jokes on you, I haven't had TF2 installed in 3 years.

>>384860607
It's still going to work fine at a range most spies use it.

>>384860250
say what you want. I enjoyed the hell out of having it and that gives it worth to me.

>>384860607
because they don't know how to fucking run this game

>>384856339
>tfw fairly new to tf2
>i suck ass and can't improve because everyone else has years of experience
how do i get gud

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>>384857559
I'm sorry I can keep an engineer's nest safe and actually contribute to holding a cap.

I AM the 1% huehue

>>384860607
>ruining
???????????????
Spy playing extremely similarly to Sniper is not a good thing, classes are kept distinct for a reason

>>384861713

play on a good community server.

you get better at games when you have fun with a regular group, enhances memory retention and makes you want to get better so you can roll with the cool kids

>>384861713
>how do i get gud
Go to community servers and look up "MGE".
It's a fun 1v1 mode which helps you develop general combat skill without waiting to respawn or get more HP.

Additionally there are plenty of channels like Mr Slin's channel (Medic main), B4nny's channel (Demo/Soldier/Scout main), and Uncle Dane's channel (Engie main) which will teach you lots about different TF2 classes.

As for general gamesense, just keep playing pubs, look up guides for any specific complex weapons/strategies you're having trouble with, or join competitive TF2 lobbies
http://playcomp.tf/
>>384861846
>I'm sorry I can keep an engineer's nest safe
Another Engineer armed with Short Circuit can do the same job of keeping the Engineer's nest safe but better, since he can actually repair the building and you can't.
>And actually contribute to holding a cap
Again, an Engie, Heavy, Demo, Soldier could do the same job but better.

Pyro is the statistically weakest class in TF2, excelling at no statistical area, and most of his abilities are useless. This is why I want to see him buffed in ways that require skill.

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>>384862663
>>384862817
thanks lads

Any good NA community servers?

>>384863743
Skial is pretty much the only popular pub servers.

No heroes is alright, and some server called PG.

>>384857559
You should watch the latest Prolander matches, Spies actually did really well, it was Pyro that sucked balls.

>>384860607
They aren't ruining it, I think a Valve dev commented that the change isn't that noticeable even at mid range.

>spy can literally just walk backwards while shooting to effortlessly kill his """""hard counter"""""
>can easily extinguish flames through two methods
Why is this allowed

>>384861713
>downloaded the game in 2011 because of f2p
>played it for an hour and quit
>picked it back up a month ago
>one of the best games i ever played
sucks i missed out on the good stuff

>>384860091
>So what other things could the FM Sapper do to things that aren't Sentries?
Shutter doors to piss everyone off.

>how do we make a class better?
>give it a weapon

That's not really making the class better, is it. Without the weapon, the class is still shit and now you've killed the whole point of different weapons by making one nigh mandatory

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post
them
flamebois

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>>384865207
This was after /v/ named my gun

>>384863948
Prolander isn't worth considering in game balance, because mainline competitive and casual TF2 are never going to be anything like it.

Anyone got a server?

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>>384865207

>>384866248
>conga
F

>>384865882
Yes but it does kinda show that Spy is balanced against the people he is supposed to be, namely Heavy and Sniper. Its just 6s is too fast and doesn't usually run those classes and in HL there are too many eyes to spot you.
Spy is actually balanced IMO.

>>384865019
i agree with this

the focus should be on making the stock class good, then balancing the unlocks around the stock option
>>384866482
> Its just 6s is too fast and doesn't usually run those classes
Because those classes are not viable anon

Prolander forces them to be ran even though they normally wouldn't

you don't balance your game around arbitrary restrictions and Scissors-Paper-Rock a la Overwatch.

Heavy should be naturally viable, and Spy should be naturally viable whether or not a Heavy is present.

Really what needs to be changed are the dead ringer, sniper, and make some of the shit weapons actually useful again. Pyro also needs a big rework, either you die to a airblast +shotgun/reserve pyro in 2 seconds or he runs up to you and stands there with m1 held. In any other situation you will kill him however.

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>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine
>upward
>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>upward
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine
>2fort
>turbine

>>384860607
They should straight up remove the thing
>spies can deal 100 damage
What the fuck

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>>384867306
2fort is as relaxed and therapeutic as TF2 can get and Turbine is unironically a great map.

>>384867353
No one tell him about the Diamond Back

>>384867454
I'm starting to wonder when this ends culturally and begins genetically.

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>>384867454

>>384867454
The fuck is that guy boxing somebody with no arms ?

>>384867306
>not liking upward
untick 2fort and turbine, problem solved, faggot

>tf2
>6v6 comp
MyM was a mistake that perpetuated this shit.

>>384867524
That rewards spies for doing spy things, not just being able to click on heads.

What are your favourite things to do in TF2?

>Cloak and Dagger spy spamming "Nice shot" to Snipers
>Annoy that one engineer by destroying his buildings as demo instead of going for the objective
>Pretend to be friendly before mowing down people as heavy
>Bonk scout to the last point without anyone noticing.

>>384867023
No, not every class needs to be viable 100% of the time, its the same as how running 6 snipers isn't viable. Despite the what the average player thinks the game was designed as generalist and specialist, and this is still how Valve views the game.
I want you to actually think about the logic of something like Spy always being viable, like how are you gonna possibly make a matchup between him and Scout be equal?
Heavy isn't even actually bad at his job, defending and escorting, could he use a few tweaks, I think so, but he doesn't need to be always viable.

>>384867985
Playing the game.

>>384864235
The concept of counters died out years ago.

>>384867985
>Cloak and Dagger spy spamming "Nice shot" to Snipers
That one is pretty good gonna try that
>Spraying lewds as spy and waiting for someone to pause and look at it so you can stabem

>>384868007
Wasn't Heavy restricted to 1 per team because 2 of him were too overpowering?

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Why does no one ever protect the medic

TONIGHT'S

>>384868196
Following this logic, why doesn't anybody protect the second best source of healing, the dispenser?

Assuming the Engineer is actually using it properly and not just as a metal farm

good US community servers that arent ded?

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>>384868196
Medic main who dont need protector here
git gud

>>384868294
That aren't 2fort times trillion?

>>384868328
And what are you supposed to do when there's a scout right in your face and the heavy you're healing is too deaf and dumb to notice your health going down?

>>384868423
ubersaw his ass

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>>384856339
Why can't I enjoy this game as much as I used to

>>384868328
Help me dr.meDICK

>>384868475
mach2
convoy
toyfort
stronghold
cranetop
roswell
warpath
lazytown_lazynite
MARIO_KART

>>384868631
>mario_kart
do you remember vodka

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>>384868007
>No, not every class needs to be viable 100% of the time
I'm not saying that.

My stance is that every class needs to be the best choice in the current situation 11% of the time.
> the game was designed as generalist and specialist, and this is still how Valve views the game
The game wasn't "designed as generalist and specialist", and Robin Walker specifically said that he wanted to balance it out of the game. Stop parroting FUNKe, just because he makes youtube videos doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

And even IF Valve viewed the game that way, that doesn't mean it's the most possible fun way for the game to be. Don't forget that they recently nerfed Bison and B4nny had to stop them buffing Reserve Shooter. They are not infallible.
>like how are you gonna possibly make a matchup between him and Scout be equal?
That's like saying "how are you gonna possibly make a matchup between Medic and Scout be equal?"

Obviously the Medic-Scout matchup is not equal, yet Medic gets used all the time anyway, because he brings powerful support through healing.
Give Spy powerful support through sabotaging the enemy team, and he will be full time viable (that is, the best choice 11% of the time).
>>384868040
Not him.
The concept of counters still exists in TF2 and is a good idea in a small amount.
With no counters TF2 would be a game where a single player can be a lone wolf and tackle every class themselves, with no teamwork.
With hard counters, the game would be boring scissors paper rock.

TF2 currently has a soft counter system that encourages teamwork, it still exists, and it is good.

>>384868631
>playing anything but stock maps
fucking f2p brazilian shitter

>>384868457
this implies the scout doesn't press left click once or twice

>>384867628
Look more closely

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What do you think of my scunt, /v/

>>384868713
sandvich

>>384859138
I honestly can't believe sappers don't show through walls for teammates

>>384867454
>Street Fighter V

>>384868839
>left click once or twice
medic has 150 health even if all the pellets from scouts scattergun hit me id still live

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>>384868121
Not the anon you're talking to.
2 Heavies is only overpowering on defense. Here's how it works:
>Stock Heavy is underpowered on offense so nobody runs him on offense
>Stock Heavy is overpowered on defense, so he's limited to 1, because otherwise the offensive team has to try and capture last against 5 overhealed Heavies with 450HP each and 550-50 DPS, so the game never ends because the losing team just turtles with tanky heavies

refer to >>384857559 for visual illustration

>>384868328
>TF2 OC is still being churned out to this day
Warms my heart.

>>384868839
Hide inside the heavy for super armor

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>>384856339
hey guys can you help me i think my halo is bugged?

>>384868869
>it aint me starts playing

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>>384868762
>not liking classic /v/ maps which were made in 2008 before the game even went F2P
fucking newfag redditor faggot

I honeslty don't think there is wrong with pure offence or pure defence classes.

However, in a game where there are classes who can do both, having classes being good at one thing shouldn't be a thing.

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>>384868631
All custom map servers have at least 300 ping
Being an ausfag is suffering

Should there be more tools to deal with Sniper? An extremely skilled sniper is virtually invincible and can oneshot anyone from long range.

Trying to remember the name of a custom payload map. Had an island theme. BLU's first spawn was a crashed pirate ship on a beach.

>>384869369
Other than Spy and relying on the map design, not much can actualy be done about a good sniper.

>>384869369
There should, but virtually anything that can do such a thing will either be terribly niche or incredibly OP in all likelihood.

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>>384869129

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>>384869369
Snipers who use Sydney sleeper and jarate are the only good snipers on my book
>mfw sniper throws jarate at heavy medic couple

>>384869369
Yep

It's retarded almost comfy how easy it is to shut down an enemy team.

Headshotting is easy as hell and you can bodysuit anyone that's strafing.

Feel kind of bad when people are madly dashing around to dodge my innevidible fire.

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>>384869221
>I honeslty don't think there is wrong with pure offence or pure defence classes.
Here's what's wrong with it:

>you enjoy playing a defence class
>you are on Payload or Attack/Defend on the offensive team
>you do not get to play the class you enjoy
or
>you dislike games which end in stalemate or never end
>other team stacks defensive classes in a symmetrical game mode so the game doesn't end
>you now must disconnect without the game having a winner declared
That's what's wrong with having pure offence or pure defence classes.

>However, in a game where there are classes who can do both, having classes being good at one thing shouldn't be a thing
Well I doubt that Soldier, Scout, Medic and Demo are going to be changed to be solely useful on offense any time soon, so in that case, Engineer and Heavy need to be reworked to be equally good on offense and defense.

>>384868735
If you aren't killing someone you are mostly useless, while we can look at things like Teleporters and Airblast as useful support, at the end of the day you have to realize killing someone would have been better than any sort of support or disruption or utility would offer.
Medic and his healing are outside this because of their sheer effectiveness.
So even if you gave Spy something a little more unless it directly leads to a kill, it still wouldn't make him any more viable than a direct combat class like Scout or Soldier.

>>384869570
Anyone else get the urge to watch the incredible whenever they play tf2?

>tfw 1000 hours overall and only ever hit headshots by pure luck
How many hours on Sniper did it take you to git gud?

>>384869701
About 10 of hard practice.


And I mean really good.
Like headshotting people based on sound or hit markers.

>>384867985
>Find AFK player
>Stab them with Your Eternal Reward and act like i'm AFK
People always fall for it.

>>384869663
I'm talking about in a strict sense of class based shooters in general rather than TF2, but I was trying to imply that TF2 is one of the few that benefits with mixed classes.

>>384869783
Imagine doing that but the guy wasn't ask and got kicked.

>>384869701
Don't move your lasers to heads, move the heads into your lasors
Play it like you do guitar hero

>>384869369
>Should there be more tools to deal with Sniper?
Those tools do exist, but Sniper's secondary loadout is full of low-counterplay, low-skill weapons that deny those tools.

>Spy's invisibility is an intended counterplay to Sniper
Jarate removes this.
>Spy's backstab is an intended counterplay to Sniper
Razorback.
>being caught at very close range is intended counterplay to Sniper
Jarate+Bushwacka.
>Hitscan chip damage is intended counterplay to Sniper
Current Darwin's Danger Shield, Cozy Camper.
>Picking Sniper is counterplay to Sniper
Current Darwin's Danger Shield.
>long range flare is intended counterplay to Sniper
Jarate, Cozy Camper, as well as Valve's proposed Danger Shield rework.
>flinching is intended counterplay to Sniper
Cozy Camper.
>Standing behind an ally is intended counterplay to Sniper
Machina.

Basically, the main problem with Sniper's lack of counterplay is his secondaries. Although Sniper will always be low-counterplay by design, his secondaries make it worse.

I'd like to see Machina, Sydney Sleeper, Razorback, Jarate, and Darwin's Danger Shield nerfed.

>>384869986
But I've never played Guitar Hero
Do you mean to position the laser so that someone moves into it and I click then?

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>>384869603
>innevidible
inevitable

post femPyro

>>384870190
We can't do that every thread.

>>384870190
The only fempyro stuff I like is fetishy and would get deleted by mods

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>>384869672
>If you aren't killing someone you are mostly useless
Again, Medic proves this statement wrong.
>Medic and his healing are outside this because of their sheer effectiveness.
Then just give Spy support abilities a bit less effective than Medic's healing, and you've got a full time viable class. What's the problem exactly anon?
>>384869679
design docs say that TF2 took some inspiration from pixar funnily enough
>>384870190
Kill yourself RIGHT NOW

>>384870157
yes
It's not quickscoping by any means though, I think that is first touched upon through 2fort battles then integrated into other map play

>>384870167
I really would have loved to see the original TF Team's take on a generic mercenary class. TF2C's mercenary just looks so off to me for some reasom.

So what happned to class based shooters?

Not fucking character shooters, class based shooters were there are clearly defined roles, strenghts and weaknesses that very rarely overlap one another.

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>>384870382
I felt the same at first actually but I got used to it
Maybe a sort of "uncanny valley" effect since his design takes visual elements from every class? So you look at the legs for example and expect to see a Pyro

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Give me a cosmetic and I'll make a decent set out of it
No Gibus allowed

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>bounces around in your path

wat do?

>>384870460
AAA publishers like EA and Activision eating up good AA developers happened

>>384870496
Stereoscopic Shades

>>384870496
old guadalajara

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>>384870498
Sentry goin' up

>>384870462
Also the M16 just doesn't have that "look". A strong silhouette and a color scheme that makes full use of the available palette.

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Post weapons that make the game's strongest class stronger, and are the single most used unlock in the game, but haven't been nerfed for 9 years.

I'll start.

>>384870496
Demo's Golf bag, but I want him to look modern

>>384870690
lol

>>384870631
I agree there, it's too dark and glossy. They got the shape right, but they fucked up the lighting and texture.

>>384870690
give it a 25% damage vulnerability
ftfy

>>384860607

no scope headshot that is better than Sniper's default

>>384870770
I'll agree to that if they remove the swing speed penalty

>>384857559

>>384857559
>>384859138
>>384859601

samefag, stop invading every tf2 thread with your ow bullshit

competitive meta is the worst thing to happen to TF2

prove me wrong

>>384870802
>that is better than Sniper's default
it really isn't
the only reason Valve gave for nerfing Ambassador was that it was allowing Spy to behave too similarly to Sniper, which defeats the point of having classes

>>384870870
The swing penalty is virtually nothing though.

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can we have a eulogy for the server browser?

I know it's still there tucked between some other shit but it's just not the same without seeing a nice list of populated Valve servers.

I really hate the Meet your Match update. It fucking sucked when it came out a year ago and it still fucking sucks now.

>>384870920
>state undeniable facts
>ask to be proven wrong

huh??

>>384870934
Then remove it

>>384870870
what i fear from removing swing speed penalty is that chain ubers get more popular and then where would damage vulnerability be

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>>384870905
1: I'm not samefagging
2: the fact we have dedicated defensive classes and ridiculously bad game balance IS overwatch bullshit and I want that fixed

you're actually unironically dumb enough to argue against a balanced game?

>>384868869
not obnoxious meme cosmetics and stacking multiple unusual effects/10
very nice

>>384856339
tf2 is a good video game

>>384870934
Yeah that's why I want it removed
pointless clutter
>>384870986
> is that chain ubers get more popular
the swing speed penalty makes basically no difference to chain ubering's viability, it's only a 0.16s difference

>>384870983
I honestly don't think you'd notice if it was even removed in the first place. Isn't it only like 1/10th of a second slower than stock per swing?

>>384870920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1tm02L6IgY

>>384871115
0.16 seconds, a difference which is actually smaller than the average human reaction time (0.2 seconds)

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Tell me the name of the least fun weapon to use in TF2... or I'll eat your souls

>>384870631
>>384870746
Technically, it'd probably be an M4. An M16 typically wouldn't have the collapsible stock, for one.

>>384871363
I see your point about the stock, but going by TF2's time period, it's definitely an M16.

M4s didn't exist until the 80s and all of the mercenaries in TF2 are known for heavily customizing their weapons.

>>384871362
UGHH JACKIECHAN

>>384860428
NIGHT

>>384871362
Back Cuck Scatter

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>>384870526
>>384870549
>>384870706
Done and done

>>384871157
that banny kid is so shit
he got an assist on me once and just started to think he was like the best player ever

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>>384871531
these are all pretty damn good, especially the Scout
people who don't like hats in TF2 should reconsider, there are definitely some shit ones but on the whole it's a fun addition

>>384857559
>that image
That would make the game boring as fuck, class based games need that imbalance to stay fun. Each class has a specific role that it has to do

>>384871531
Nice
Anything for the Tartan Tyrolean?

>>384871362
Righteous Bison. Ever since Valve gutted it, it's just not the same. Probably the worst weapon in TF2 now.

>>384871362
the sharpened volcano fragment is just shit.
>Melee weapon that lights people on fire!
>Let's give it to a class with so many better, more fun ways to light people on fire.
>Let's also nerf the damage down so they no longer have a viable melee weapon!
>While we're at it, is there a way we can fill the Pyro's mask with farts? Because fuck that guy.

>>384871531
If you're still taking cosmetics, try the Sandvich Safe

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>>384871683
>class based games need that imbalance to stay fun
No they don't retard.
Game balance is simply the process of ensuring that no single strategy dominates, so that every player can choose to play what they enjoy.

A single strategy being totally fucking useless in 99% of situations does not make the game more fun.
>Each class has a specific role that it has to do
And that won't change if the game becomes balanced.

>Retard literally arguing that imbalancing your game is good
I've heard of contrarianism but this just takes the cake.

>>384871457
how about a FAL or something?

>>384871708
>b-b-but it's useful in Medieval Mode!
Fire isn't useful in the gamemode where you get a health kit on kill.

>>384870462
i got on tf2c a while ago and literally nobody was on :(

>>384871362
Ulla Calabororaosrasr
It just ain't right what they did to the boy, I tells ya.

>>384871708
Pyro fucking needs the half zatoichi

>>384871708
>>Let's also nerf the damage down so they no longer have a viable melee weapon!
Why do Valve have this weird fetish for "does less damage" on Pyro melee weapons and Spy primaries?

Literally every single Spy primary unlock has a damage penalty and 4/7 Pyro melee unlocks have damage penalties.
>captcha: 2700 kike

What was the point of Demoknight

Why didn't Demo get a new GL instead

>>384871872
what kind of balance are you looking for?
do you want it to work like overwatch or wat

>>384872268
for 2fort instarespawn fun

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>>384871684
>>384871709

>>384872268
>What was the point of Demoknight
plenty of people seem to enjoy it, so there's your point
>Why didn't Demo get a new GL instead
design a fun Demoman explosive weapon then.

one that isn't just "one big bomb", because Valve already tried that and it failed horribly

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You know what i love to do in tf2?

>>384871872
>Game balance is simply the process of ensuring that no single strategy dominates, so that every player can choose to play what they enjoy.
Name me one game that doesn't have this. The reason why the strategy is good is, let's use the the current 6 meta of 2 soldier, 2 scout, med, and demo, is because all of them are generalists. That doesn't mean all the other classes are useless, they have their uses when the situation changes.
>A single strategy being totally fucking useless in 99% of situations does not make the game more fun.
Then who would use that strategy?
You don't class based shooters do you?

>>384872321
I like it
What are the names of the other two demo cosmetics?

>>384872321
Do one with Exorcisor Pyro

>>384872321
>>384872425
another pyro
connoisseurs cap

>>384872268
When Targe was first released you were practically immune to fire and explosive damage, so I guess the point was to make people waste ammo and be annoyed at another w m1 class.

>>384872282
>what kind of balance are you looking for?
I already told you in the post you replied to originally.
Medic nerf.
Engineer and Heavy reworking to be less good on defense and more good on offense.
Spy and Pyro buff.
>do you want it to work like overwatch or wat
no, I want it to work the exact opposite of overwatch

no arbitrary restrictions like OW does.
no forcing some classes onto defense like OW does.
no hard counters like OW does, only soft counters.
and the game would be actually balanced, which overwatch isn't.
>>384872380
>That doesn't mean all the other classes are useless
They are useless 99% of the time (this is not an exaggeration, go watch any LAN and count how many seconds Pyro/Spy/Engineer/Heavy spend on the winning team).

It doesn't matter if they "have their uses when the situation changes" when the game hardly ever fucking changes to that situation.

This is bad for the people who enjoy those classes if they only get to play them 1% of the time. It also makes the game less interesting to play and watch.
>Then who would use that strategy?
>You don't class based shooters do you?
What the fuck is this sentence? Are you retarded? Do you even understand what I'm saying, and English in general?

Rephrase what you're trying to say, and in English this time, thanks.

>>384872402
Mann of the Seven Sees and the Macho Mann

>>384872425
>>384872505
Just a min, I had to shit

>>384872650
that was my first reply to u tho
anyways ya that sounds cool
there's like two people working on this game though and I don't think they feel like doing work rn

Why did the Demoknight get nerfed?

>>384872341
Bee Cannon
>looks like GL but it's middle is beehive
>scatters on impact, +25 explosive range, no damage changes
>when it hits anything, makes like mad milk and put bees on you
>bees are loud, you will only hear bees can't be extinguished, spread to nearby by contact, does afterburner damage, you also do 25% less damage when under bees, -33 healing from all sources, +33% movement speed because it's bees you gotta run
>can hit allies with bees, does the same effect, hit with your own bees, lose your bee cannon, can be regen from ammo sources or wait 20%

>>384868093
sprays are disabled

>>384871531
How about Spy's camera beard?

>>384872683
Do electric twanger next

>>384872810
People HATE getting killed by melee

>>384872620
There was also a time later on that it actually made you immune to afterburn as well. So it was a great "fuck you" to a class that couldn't do shit against you except airblast like an annoying shit. Back before they were nerfed it was fun to run LNL + Sword in pubs because a single pipe and melee would do 185 damage and kill pyros and demos without overheal.

>>384872810
Valve has constantly flip flopped on whether or not they want him to be a viable "tenth class" or just a total joke. The Tide Turner was OP as shit when it launched because you could effectively steer him and run around getting free crits constantly. Almost any weapon that gives free crits is going to get nerfed (even the ambassador now).

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>>384870690

>>384872983
inb4 pub babbies think soldier needs the shotgun

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>Pocketed demo spams stickies down a choke and goes on a 10 killstreak
>"lol get on my level cunts"

>>384872650
>using ad hominem as argument
You still haven't answered my question, what game has classes that are useful 50% and weak 50%?
>Useless 99% of the time
According to whom? just because they're not regularly used doesn't mean their useless. Again, the situation matters in a match. For example, sniper is great for last holds on a cp map.

>>384871362
claidheamh mòr
before it was fine but ever since its nerf its virtually useless

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>>384872983
>Valve will NEVER nerf soldier

>>384867628
dude neither of them have arms lmao

>>384873020
???

Shotgun >>> gunboats

It's a fact.

>>384873089
Soldier is the backbone of the game. He's the big man that anyone can rely on in any situations. Without it the game will just become overwatch.

>>384872341
The Howitz-to-yah
>Shoot completely straight and accurate from crosshair
>-25% firing speed, +50% reload time, +25% explosive range + 25% damage, longer switch out and in times, -10% walking speed

>>384857704
>Run away from kritz heavy
>Turn corner to dodge his bullets
>The bullets turn the corner too, killing me
Every
Single
Time

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>>384872425
>>384872505
>>384872931
r8

>>384872894
Whoops I missed ya, hang on

How did you get your first hat?

I crafted mine It is the viking beard, sorry for not remembering the name of it and still use it today.

>>384873304
Do class crown!

>>384873304
Cook pyro 9/10
Whats the outfit

>>384873363
Purity fist, not tradable. Got it back in 2013.

>>384873363
Mine was ghastly gibus but I threw it away to make more item slots.

Ah the good ol f2p days.

>>384873363
I was given a crafted Hero's Hachimaki by a random person on /v/. I treasured that hat for so long.

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>>384872971
>free crits
>ambassador
have you considered that you're overusing a certaing word

>>384873063
>According to whom?
Like I already told you: watch the winning team of any LAN, and see how long offclasses spend on their side.

>>384873142
why don't roamers equip the shotgun then?

>>384873142
None of the top soldiers in the world use the shotgun

>>384873363
Found a Respectless Rubber Glove

>>384873615
I just saw a 6v6 with pros, heavy was used offensively, they won.

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>>384865207
ONE MORE TIME

>>384873562
Headshots are crits. It's not overuse.

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>best cosmetic set is halloween only
why is this allowed

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Who /fucked by the update/ here?

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>>384873807
>worth 20 dollars but you can almost never use it
life is cruel

>>384873931
You deserve it

>>384873636
Because they can't aim

>>384873654
Who cares about comp. They're the ones that gave us mym

>>384873706
>Headshots
exactly, so they're not free

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>>384872894
>>384873376
here

>>384873412
Pyromancer's Raiments with Tinge paint (although it doesn't really matter)

>>384873698
where

>>384874075
https://youtu.be/cJvtXaLXjAE
I'm telling you, the situation matters

>>384867454
Should've bought Switch.

fuck cp_junction

why'd they remove ctf_sawmill

>>384874307
a few things worth mentioning here
>2012
game balance then was enormously different to how it is today FIVE years later
>the amount of time Heavy is actually present in your video
Protip: not much. Heavy was in the game for LESS THAN ONE MINUTE out of a 46 minute long game.

If you enjoy playing Heavy, you do not get to do so, because the game is so imbalanced

You are literally arguing for an imbalanced game, because you don't understand that a game can be balanced AND have unique classes

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>>384874428
if engie and heavy weren't so defensively skewed, junction might just be a playable map, if not the most fun ever

engie is the main part of the problem with junction

>>384874810
I said this 3 times now, the situation matters. Do you ignore that on purpose.
Also name a single class based shooters that is balanced in the way that a class is 50% of the time strong and 50% weak.

>>384872784
>there's like two people working on this game though and I don't think they feel like doing work rn
well that's true
we have to hassle valve to hire more people and make games instead of sitting on their endless money generator (steam)

>>384874946
I unironically enjoy Junction

There are a lot of official CTF maps for a game completely unbalanced for CTF

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>>384865207

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>>384874946
>mfw playing those old junction servers with VIP bonuses

What's the best site to trade on? I want to get rid of some spare cosmetics and strange parts for metal.

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whats the deal with all those ironic "weebs" in-game? I get so fucking asshurt at everything they do
>spam chat
>spam keybinds
>spam le ironic doujin quotes
>spam jojo memes
>have a japanese name but don't know japanese
is this the new furry/brony?

>>384874989
And I've said two times now: it doesn't matter if they "have their uses when the situation changes" when the game hardly ever fucking changes to that situation.

If you like playing a class you want to PLAY that class. You don't come to TF2 to not play what you enjoy. That's moronic.
>Also name a single class based shooters that is balanced in the way that a class is 50% of the time strong and 50% weak
It doesn't matter what other games do. We're talking about TF2 and what is possible in TF2. If other games fail at perfectly implementing game balance that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

And for God's sake improve your disgustingly awful grammar before coming back to 4chan. You type like a Brazilian with ADHD.

>>384857559
6v6 makes this image true. Tf2 should be 12v12 because every class can fit a role

>>384875348
They watch Shingeki no Kyojin like their favorite Twitch streamer did, then eat up all the regurgitated detritus off of their chat and rcddit.

>>384875330
Backpack.tf or sfuminator. Sfuminator has interest though so I usually prefer backpack.tf

>>384875194
well not really
CTF has six maps
5CP has 17 maps

>>384875412
TF2 can't be balanced so that all classes are 50/50. Soldier and medic exists just to make sure something like that doesn't happen. If a class counters a class and so on and so forth. It'll be pretty boring without an element of uncertainty.

>>384875348
you think good

>>384873996
>The best players cant aim
Soldiers dont need shotguns because 3 rockets is enough to kill any non overhealed class.

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>>384875583
>TF2 can't be balanced so that all classes are 50/50
Why not? It's a video game. We can do whatever the fuck we want with it. We control it right down to the physics of the world.
>Soldier and medic exists just to make sure something like that doesn't happen
Soldier and Medic existing in no way prevents the game from being balanced. I demand a justification for why you believe this.
>If a class counters a class and so on and so forth.
And so forth... what?
Just because English is your second language doesn't excuse you not providing any reasoning whatsoever and just making weird non sequitur statements.
> It'll be pretty boring without an element of uncertainty
What, you think the same classes being run 99% of the time right now isn't boring? You think that the game would magically cease to be uncertain if all classes were useful?

Besides, the element of uncertainty is and always should be player skill.

It's really tiring me out trying to make sense of your weird illogical statements that don't explain themselves or actually go anywhere. Can you work on that, please?

>>384875721
I don't give a shit about comp. It's fucking boring to look at and play at. Shotgun is better than gunboat because it does damage and is a hitscan. It's really handy when you fired all 4 rockets because rockets reload as slow as I last in bed.

Honestly, if you're having so much trouble with pub soldier, just go scout or pyro.

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Convert all the Arena maps to KOTH

They were some of the best looking and most interesting maps

>>384875412
There's that epic ad hominem again. How about you stop with name calling and stop avoiding my question. You listed in your original post what classes need to be changed but don't say what needs to be changed. A game situation can change in a moments notice and each class has it's use.

>>384875910
Convert all KOTH to Arena maps and make it selectable in the browser

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>>384875348
>He doesn't taunt after every kill and watch them go into maximum faggotdrive in chat
Only good ironic weeb is a DOMINATED one.

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>my favorite map
>no one ever plays it cause f2ps get lost too easily
fug

>>384875843
>Why not? It's a video game. We can do whatever the fuck we want with it. We control it right down to the physics of the world.
No you don't, the developer does

>those kids bitching about 'spawn camping' in the chat

>>384875910
>invasion update was the last update to add an official arena map

>>384876042
Who's the purple-haired slut

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>>384876242
>Not one medic sits in base to build up an ubercharge to break out with
>Entire team disconnects instead

>>384874946
The map's just too damn small. It's one of few maps where if the playercount is REALLY tiny, like 4v4, it's bearable. But by the time you get to 16 players it's gone to shit and 24 is a total nightmare. I have similar feelings about Hydro, another map that can be fun with smaller groups and a total mess with larger ones.
>>384875843
>Why not? It's a video game. We can do whatever the fuck we want with it. We control it right down to the physics of the world.
Yeah but no matter what you do the game, at the end of the day it's still a Quake mod. Rocket jumping is a crucial part of Quake which is the game's base, so Soldier will ALWAYS be integral to the game. And since Medic fuels rocket jumps he'll always be right behind him. Nothing will ever really be able to touch Soldier in mobility because he can always instantly burst into the air. Even grapple hooks have a delay before they take effect.
>>384875910
I miss all the arena maps except watchtower. Fuck that map.

>people actually wanting Valve servers back
>people actually played on Valve servers

I never once had a good game on Valve servers. Nothing but F2P shitters building at spawn. These garbage servers killed off community server after community server because no many of you retards settled for that trash.

>>384875843
>class can't be 50/50
In order for a class to be 50/50, the developers need to create artificial situations where the character falls in. That's what they tried to do with overwatch and it just made the game shallower.

>solly and med
Soldier is a class that doesn't counter or is countered. Same goes with medic. They are good and viable in any situations. They can't be 50/50 because they're always 100 and there's nothing wrong with that. A team needs a backbone to hold its ground with regardless of the mode they're playing with.

>class counters
When a class counters a class. They need a counterpick. Then the other team need another counterpick. This just creates a boring cycle. TF2 is great because it's a skill based game. Pyro may have an upper hand but a skilled spy can kill him. Sentries are OP little fucks but a skilled scout can run circles around an engie.

I don't care about comp, but in pubs, all classes are played. Forcibly shoehorning engineer into comp meta won't make anyone happy.

>>384876442
Yeah I loved 32 player 2fort instaspawn too, it was the way the game was meant to be played.

>>384876290
Allow me to cut out the middleman
https://e-hentai.org/tag/character:nozomi+toujou

>>384870770
Can you imagine if
"Target takes minicrits when deployed"
"No random critical hits"

yet it still be used due to how strong getting 25% uber on hit is. Doing the above wouldn't really fix this. If you dropped it to like 15% uber and kept it as it is now. it be a substantial nerf.

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>fun stops here

>>384875908
the gunboats gives the soldier more mobility you dingus

>>384873363
i got a hatless engi within the first hour of playing the game years ago

>>384873363
mann co. store hat

>>384876090
>f2ps get lost too easily

s-so Valve was right? This map is average at best, but there are worse maps approved by Valve

>>384876913
Yeah but you have no fucking chance against a pyro without shotgun. And when you run outta rockets you can't do shit but die.

>>384877059
How about not overextending

>>384877059
just use splash damage

>>384877153
So you'll never run into pyro if you don't overextend got it.

>>384876090
Snowplow didn't need the train HP and the train should've been slower

>>384876130
That's beside the point. "We" refers to our collective ability as consumers to bitch to the developers until they change things to what we want.
>>384876404
>Rocket jumping is a crucial part of Quake which is the game's base, so Soldier will ALWAYS be integral to the game.
That doesn't even fucking logically follow to the rest of your argument. Because Soldier can rocket jump, the other classes will never ever be viable????
>Nothing will ever really be able to touch Soldier in mobility because he can always instantly burst into the air.
You're displaying your lack of knowledge about the game, Demoman is a more mobile class than Soldier who usually reaches the frontline first, and his mobility is far greater than Soldier's.
And mobility is not the only thing that dictates a class's viability anyway. So talking about mobility has little to no relevance to the rest of your argument.

Again, please, try and use at least a shred of logic.
Agree on Junction. In TF2C they use it as a Deathmatch map.
>>384876468
>the developers need to create artificial situations where the character falls in
All situations are artificial. Artificial MEANS "man-made".
The 9 classes didn't pop up out of nowhere with the big bang. The developers created them and they created "artificial situations where the character falls in" to accommodate them.
>That's what they tried to do with overwatch and it just made the game shallower.
No, what they tried to do with Overwatch is literally the opposite of what I want to do. In Overwatch you're intended to constantly change classes because each is highly specialized to a niche and is part of a strong hard counter system.

I want players to be able to continuously play a class they enjoy, without constant class swapping being a requirement. The opposite of OW.

1/2

>>384877059
soldier will just rocket jump away.

>>384877059
direct hit

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>>384876468
2/2
>and there's nothing wrong with that
Soldier is 0/0. It is the best in no situations and the worst in no situations. It's functionally the same as being 50/50.
Medic is 100/0 because it is overpowered and its healing is too high.
>And there's nothing wrong with that.
Yes there is you retard.

Don't like playing Medic? Your team has no Medic? Too bad. You're forced to play Medic or lose, because Medic is so strong he turns a mediocre team into a good team.
It's fucking cancer to be forced to play a class you don't enjoy or lose. It sucks the fun right out of the game. It is BAD GAME DESIGN.
>A team needs a backbone to hold its ground with regardless of the mode they're playing with.
Meaningless rhetoric. Having a "backbone to hold your ground with" doesn't make the game any more fun.
>When a class counters a class. They need a counterpick. Then the other team need another counterpick. This just creates a boring cycle
That only happens with hard counters. With soft counters you don't need to counterpick, you can just keep playing what you're already playing.
>TF2 is great because it's a skill based game
And with my suggestions that won't change in the slightest.

It's infuriating how dense you are: you make argument A, I respond to it with response B, you completely ignore response B and make argument A again.
>Forcibly shoehorning engineer into comp meta won't make anyone happy
Intelligently adding Engineer into the competitive meta by making him more skillful, weaker on defense and stronger on defense will make Engineer mains happy that they can actually play, and make everyone else happy that stalemates aren't so common.

>>384877305
Let me tell you what I mean by artificial. Take Overwatch for example. All heroes have abilities, but that's all they can do. They can't do anything the developers didn't intend. There is no fun shits like sentry jumping or uberchains or caber tossing in Overwatch, because the heroes are forced to run in the same artificial situations the developers designed. If classes are all situational 50/50, that means they are highly specialized to a niche and is part of a strong hard counter system.

People are already playing what they want. To me it feels like you're mistakening comp with pub. Never in a pub will you ever see a 6v6 2 soldier 2 scout 1 demo 1 medic meta. People will just choose characters they want, even if it means there will be 4 snipers and 3 spies on your team. You're just talking about problems that doesn't even exist.

>>384871872
>No they don't retard.
Yes, they fucking do you mong.

Making every class viable in every situation would be truly the worst game to play. They only need to buff heavy, engineer, spy, and the pyro's already apparent capabilities so that whatever situation that the designed to be capable they're in is buffed.

Why even argue

>>384877305
You're missing the point. It isn't about the other classes being "viable", I think all of them are (except Pyro, who exists only to airblast now that he's lost puff & sting). The first post was that all classes should only be useful 50% of the time. Which is impossible because rocket jumping makes soldier useful 100% of the time and other classes don't have anything comparable. Demo can get farther with sticky jumping but he can't immediately bail out of danger 100% of the time because the arm time on the stickies is too long. See stuff like >>384877541 for what I mean. RJ + shotgun is why solly has no counters. And again the base game (Quake) is designed around that so it's impossible to change without overhauling the game itself.

And mobility is hugely important to viability, I don't even do 6s but I know hoovy isn't used EXPLICITLY because of lack of mobility. He can't do rollouts and he can't push reliably. It sure as hell isn't his DPS that's a problem.

>>384877738
>medic is overpowered because he is good at his job
The fuck do you want him to do? The point of a healer is to heal, if he's bad at it what's the point of a healer? Also you don't need medic to win. I've won plenty of games without a medic on our team. Stop assuming you know everything about the players and the game. Your head is so far up your ass.

>>384877738
Oh look it was just some retarded uncle dane memer all along. God that guy's a fucking cancer.

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>>384877871
You keep using Overwatch as an example when I'm telling you I'm doing the OPPOSITE of Overwatch. It's a waste of your and my time.
>All heroes have abilities, but that's all they can do. They can't do anything the developers didn't intend. There is no fun shits like sentry jumping or uberchains or caber tossing in Overwatch, because the heroes are forced to run in the same artificial situations the developers designed
Again, your argument has zero logic.
"Because Overwatch does something, that means you're going to do exactly the same thing as them."
Can you please just see how fucking moronic you're being?

I'm not proposing we remove any fun mechanics from TF2. I'm proposing we ADD mechanics to TF2.
>If classes are all situational 50/50, that means they are highly specialized to a niche and is part of a strong hard counter system
Except it fucking doesn't.
Just because Demoman, for example, is good at destroying Engineer Sentries in some situations but bad at fighting Scout in others (thus making him situational 50/50) doesn't mean he hard counters Engineer. Engineer can still outskill and kill Demoman.

3/9 classes in TF2 are 50/50 balanced right now. All I want is for the rest of the classes in TF2 to be as strong as them.

That is a complete and utter refutation of your entire argument right there. If you ignore it, it's obvious to the entire thread you're not actually reading the posts you're replying to, and I see no reason to give you more (you)s.
>People are already playing what they want.
No, nigger. The entire reason HL exists is because people can't play what they want.
>People will just choose characters they want
Because it doesn't matter if you're underpowered in a pub you dumb fucking asshole. Holy shit are you stupid.

>>384877920
>Making every class viable in every situation
THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING YOU DUMB FUCK.
I'm saying every class should be viable in 50% of situations and 50% of others.
Not that every class should be viable in every situation.
Learn the difference. FUCK.
>They only need to buff heavy, engineer, spy, and the pyro's already apparent capabilities
That's pretty much exactly what I'm fucking saying, which makes it insanely irritating that you're calling me a mongoloid while making my argument.

>>384878249
>make classes fill in situational niches and have certain ups and downs within the core of that character's design
>demoman doesn't hard counter engie

Are you okay there?

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>>384878102
>The fuck do you want him to do? The point of a healer is to heal, if he's bad at it what's the point of a healer?
>There is no state between "amazing healer" and "bad healer"
This is how retarded you are.
You honestly think that the Medic can only be a flip switch between ridiculously strong and unplayably bad.
> I've won plenty of games without a medic on our team
Yeah you can kill an entire enemy team with the Wrap Assassin in a pub too. That doesn't make it good. Pub players rarely give a shit about actually winning.

For NINE YEARS straight in competitive play Medic has been the only class anyone picks for their first choice in both Highlander, 4s, 8s, and 6s play. Why? Because Medic is mandatory to win a game of TF2 against a team who is playing seriously and has a Medic.

>>384878368
>I'm saying every class should be viable in 50% of situations and 50% of others.
Is some how not
>highly specialized to a niche and is part of a strong hard counter system

Do you ever think?

>>384878525
>>demoman doesn't hard counter engie
You don't even understand the definition of a hard counter that he and I are using.

Hard counters are "A will always kill B, even if A is more skilled." That's what he's complaining that I'm trying to add to TF2 (which I'm not).

Soft counters, which is what exist in TF2 right now, are "A has an advantage over B, but B will kill A if B is more skilled."

Demoman does not hard counter Engie. Demoman soft counters Engie.

>>384878550
Medic job is supposed to be a healer. Whether he is good or bad depends on the skill of the player and how the medic is playing, not because of the "strategy". Yes medic is very good, a medic on any team is good. Why do you think people play him on competitive matches?

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>>384878735
>>highly specialized to a niche and is part of a strong hard counter system
Just because a class is viable in 50% of situations and 50% of others doesn't mean it's part of a hard counter system, you dumb fuck.

Hard counter system:
>A always beats B and is always beaten by C. Therefore it is viable 50% of the time and unviable 50% of the time.

Soft counter system:
>A has an advantage over B and is at a disadvantage to C (although it can beat C if the player is better, and can lose to B if the player is worse). Therefore it is viable 50% of the time and unviable 50% of the time.

I want every TF2 class to be balanced like Demoman is. Which is NOT a hard counter system.

Do you fucking UNDERSTAND yet? Have I successfully rubbed it into the slimy paste that constitutes your brain?

>>384878550
Comp is something never intended though. When they designed this game competitive mode wasn't planned. People only got this far with comp because Quake at its core is a competitive game, but TF2 wasn't meant to be one. Team Fortress was a dumb fun mod.

Stop focusing so much on comp for once. If you're that obsessed with anything it'll never be fun.

>>384878830
>Whether he is good or bad depends on the skill of the player and how the medic is playing
No shit. That's irrelevant to the discussion.
When we talk about balance we assume all players' skill levels are equal.
I shouldn't have to explain this to you.
>Yes medic is very good, a medic on any team is good. Why do you think people play him on competitive matches?
That's what I'm saying you dumb fuck. Nowhere did I say that Medic is not good. I am saying he is TOO good.

Has this all just been an elaborate bait? Whether or not it has, you really need to kill yourself.

>>384879170
>When they designed this game competitive mode wasn't planned
Irrelevant. We have a competitive mode as a part of the game now, like all of Valve's other multiplayer games. If it's going to actually work, the game needs to be balanced around it.

Valve is in the process of balancing the game around competitive now. This should have been obvious from http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=30147. That is why we talk about competitive.

Spy wasn't planned either. Spy was originally a bug in Quake Team Fortress when it released with only 5 classes. Now Spy is a full part of the game. Whether the game had something intended from the start is irrelevant. 100,000+ people want to play TF2 competitively as their favourite class, and they're going to be catered to.

>>384879173
Then what should be changed?

>>384879342
>100,000+ people want to play TF2 competitively

No they don't. No one can get a game on official comp nor do people care about the official comp. Community comp is just for autists.

>>384879342
God you were such a whiny ass baby. Hope you can get a life soon.

>they're going to be catered to
Spoken like a true autist

>>384879524
>No they don't
http://logs.tf/
Look at the player count. 184,499.
>Community comp is just for autists
They're not autistic, and it wouldn't be relevant if they were. 100,000+ people want to play TF2 competitively, and you're not going to stop them just by calling them autists.
>No one can get a game on official comp
Nobody plays official comp because it's horribly imbalanced, leading to endless stalemates and people missing out on playing their favourite classes viably.

That's exactly what I want fixed and what my posts are getting at.

>>384857559
I mean, engis and heavy being UP in attack and OP in defense is exactly how things should be. They are defense classes, not attack classes.
Still, I agree about the rest, Spy and Pyro's situation is sad.

>That guy that begs the team to go medic
Then why don't YOU go Medic, fuckface?

>>384878071
Heavy is used a lot defending the last point. He's a situational pick, but he is quite good at it.

>>384879406
>Then what should be changed?
Crit heals now have a visual indicator to Medic.
Medic's passive health regen ramp-up removed, now a flat 3/sec.
Medigun/Vaccinator/Kritzkrieg healing rate to go from 24/sec to 10/sec, with a crit heal maximum of 50/sec. Quick-Fix healing rate to go from 33.6/sec to 14/sec. (This will make Medic overall less powerful.)
Damage dealt by target or Medic himself in the last 20 seconds now contributes to crit heal building. (Medics with accurate heal targets, or Medics who contribute a little damage to fights, will do more healing for their target, and Medic will always patch up allies quicker after they win a fight, but will heal allies slower while actively under fire. This will help stop stalemates.)
Crusader's Crossbow reload time increased from 1.60s to 2s, its uber build rate increased from 1% per 16 healing to 1% per 20 healing, and its close range damage reduced from 38 to 25.
Overhealed targets now completely stop providing crit heals until they lose the overheal.
Ubersaw swing speed downside replaced with 20% damage vulnerability while active.
Syringe Gun, Blutsauger, and Overdose all now passively reload.

With these changes Medic will be less vital to win, more skillful and engaging, have more loadout diversity, be less likely to cause a stalemate, and still be unique.

>>384880015
>They are defense classes, not attack classes
Explain to me why this is a good thing, because I can tell you why it's a bad thing.

Keeping Engie and Heavy better on defense and worse on offense means:
>People who enjoy playing Engie and Heavy on defense don't get to play the class they enjoy when on BLU in asymmetrical modes, or when pushing in symmetrical modes.
>Everybody else experiences stalemates more often, because Engie and Heavy are so good at turtling that they stop people from capturing the objective and ending the game.

>Still, I agree about the rest, Spy and Pyro's situation is sad.
Yeah, there's a lot of room for improvement. Pyro has a very vague game role and Spy is a worse Sniper in a lot of situations.

>>384880523
>not even nerfing the vita-saw
that's how i know you don't play medic
>Overhealed targets now completely stop providing crit heals until they lose the overheal.
that's retarded

>>384880701
That's how I know you don't read patch notes, mongoloid dipshit. Valve are already nerfing Vita-Saw.
>that's retarded
not an argument. Provide an argument or cede the point

>>384877059

>dying to a pyro as soldier
>ever

Fuck off casual. The only times I die to a M2 spam pyro is when a teammate feeds him rockets. You can even dodge their flare spam at 3-4 meters distance, easily.

>>384880680
When on Blu, Heavy and Engi should stay right behind the rest of the team to avoid the Red to push the whole team back.
Or at least, that what they should do. Most èpeople insist on using them to attack on the front lines when they shouldn't be there at all.
Unfortunately, staying back in the lines is not technically fun. But if you want to win, that's what has to be done. And winning is fun at least.

>>384880771
>Valve are already nefing it
Wrong, those are proposed patch notes
Removing random crits from other players due to over heal is just bad design and it makes no sense. You could just turn off random crits in general instead of some stupid gimmick with medic.

>>384878071
>Which is impossible because rocket jumping makes soldier useful 100% of the time
Soldier is useful 100% of the time but he's not the BEST 100% of the time.
That's what I'm aiming for. Soldier can be useful 100% of the time, not the best, not the worst. Other classes can be a good choice 50% of the time and a bad choice 50% of the time, while Soldier will be an ok choice 100% of the time.

For example. Would you rather have a skilled Sniper, or a skilled Demo, or a skilled Soldier to try and pick off enemies at long range?
Obviously a skilled Sniper.
Therefore Sniper is a good choice 50% of the time.
But would you rather have a skilled Sniper or a skilled Soldier to contest a small chokepoint area at close range? Obviously a skilled Soldier, or skilled Demo.
Therefore Sniper is a bad choice 50% of the time.
>RJ + shotgun is why solly has no counters
Soldier has no counters. And Soldier counters nothing.

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>>384880945
>Wrong, those are proposed patch notes
Ones I agree with so there's no point bringing them up.
>Removing random crits from other players due to over heal is just bad design and it makes no sense. You could just turn off random crits in general instead of some stupid gimmick with medic.
You LITERALLY just told me I don't play Medic, and you think "crit heals" means "random crits"?
?????????????????????????
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=633876682
Educate yourself you moron LMAO

Is this bait? PLEASE be bait. I don't want to share /v/ with people this dumb.

>>384880927
>Unfortunately, staying back in the lines is not technically fun
It's just not fun period. We can improve on that design by making Engineer and Heavy useful both on offense and defense.

They will still be unique classes but they will also be more fun and cause less stalemates.

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>lenny binds
>i'm friendly xD
>le gaben memes XDDDD

Do we really have to share this game with these people?

>>384882840
Call a subtle votekick on them. Sometimes it actually works.
I call a votekick on everyone I see with a bronyshit avatar (which actually isn't that many nowadays).

>>384882840
What did you expect? Half of the playerbase was born after TF2 was released

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>>384865207
>sneaking up on someone with the jingle belt
nigga you shoulda played with your sound on

>>384883079
What if they're on the other team?

>>384883392
Well, you can claim that they sent you a racist message or are wearing a racist cosmetic and ask the other team to kick them. That works on a rare occasion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTdoXM68qQk&feature=youtu.be

where were you when uncle dane dropped the best album of the year?

>>384883448
I like his gameplay videos but I'm not clicking that singing shit.

>>384871362
too many too count

Short circuit for one

>>384868328
>t. guy who plays medic against complete retards on official TF2 servers
>t. guy who has never played medic, or any class, in a competitive environment (i.e. tf2lobby, back in the day)
Medics are all about communicating with your team. If they put no effort into protecting you, expect to die repeatedly.