Can Fantasy Strike save fighting games? https://www.youtube

Looks worse than MvCI and that's saying a lot

>>384806251
The UI is horrible, they jacked the font for the combo counter and K.O message literally straight from MvC3. Not only that but dumbing down fighting games makes them boring as hell, just look at Rising Thunder

sirlin is such a retard

he ruined ST

Its going to be hilarious to see fighting game players stomp everyone else and make them quit. Simplifying shit won't work. They'll still cry that the game is too hard and give up.

>>384806251
>LGBT character

Yeah it's shit

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>>384806251
>It's another "let's make the controls for retard babies, THAT'S what people want!" episode

Because this worked so well for Rising Thunder, right?

Face it, the only retards that want this are smash babies, and smash babies will never play anything that isn't smash.

>>384807113
But if I can do every combo then I will ace fundamentals easily!

>>384806251
Looks like shit.

>>384806251
Fighting games won't work until they will implement teamplay efficiently. Right now people can't accept that when they lose it's 100% their fault for being bad.

>>384807868
>smash players want easier controls

yes, that's why brawl and smash4 are more popualr than melee

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Just look at how skillful every player becomes so quickly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmLSSLM7R7k

What's annoying about simplifying is SFV already fills the place of being a gate for people. It got me into getting good at fundamentals. I feel like I'm playing Guilty Gear because of Street Fighter.

This is just a disingenuous Divekick. And somehow it has worse character designs. Also,
>8f buffer
what
At least it has GGPO. Not even fucking Capcom can implement it, the morons.

>>384806251
Fighting games are all about the looks, the community will create tiers, meta and other bullshit for the gameplay anyway, and that game looks like shit.

>>384807062
>IDS MUCH MORE BALANCE U GAIS
>Cammy has even more impossible matchups with characters like Honda and Blanka than before

>>384806251
Valerie looks amazing, is she a trannie?

>>384807868
But I play smash for the complex and technical controls. If I wanted simple controls I'd go play street fighter. Maybe it's for you guys, not us.

>>384808332
It looks so slow and floating.

I played the game at EVO and it needs a lot of work done to it to make it better. Character designs are decent and the way attacks are laid out are fun, but it's simple layout makes it very abusable and not fun, allowing for one touch kills that will frustrate casuals to no end.

Sounds cool I'll keep an eye out for it.

>>384806251
Is this that one game with the "simplified" buttons?

>>384806251
Porn when?

The animations in this game look awful. They look very amateurish and uninteresting. Like, I look at them and am bored. Compare that to, say, Tekken where things just look impactful. Basically anyone could look at EWGF and know that shit feels good to get on hit or on block. I'd rather just play GG. I don't think a game should have absurd execution, but having to practice things at least keeps them interesting. I think Soulcalibur is a good example. The game isn't really that hard on an execution level, but you still have to learn it and you can still make mistakes. This just looks like some salty scrub who can use drag and drop in a prefab game engine made a game on the tier of Chinese knockoffs.

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>>384806251
>Grave

>>384809403
The fighter designs look like what you'd get if there was a random button in the Champions Online character creator.

>>384807868
>Because this worked so well for Rising Thunder, right?
It did, actually. Rising Thunder was really fun and fairly popular. The only reason it fell off the face of the earth is because the devs got bought out by Riot and ceased production on it.

>>384808327
It's the same control scheme, autist. Finding wonky exploits in the physics engine doesn't make the controls more complicated. And I guarantee every single one of you got into it because it was easy as fuck and had Mario in it, not because you wanted to get into fighting games. Don't even pretend.

>>384808779
Yeah because pressing a direction and a button is so hard. See above, you fucking clown. 99.9% of Smash's actual mainstream playerbase can't even do a quarter circle. The fact that there's a few autismos who decided to try and turn it into some kind of fucked up fighting game-esque homunculus doesn't suddenly make it a hard game.

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>>384806251
Holy shit, where do I even start?

>>384810000
I got into Smash because I was a kid and it was the best thing to do with 4-ish players and one TV. If I were trying out Smash today and my only choice of opponent were today's Melee autists I'd quit just from being grossed out.

>>384810339
T H E S M E L L
H
E

S
M
E
L
L

>>384810000
I got into Smash because I wanted a goddamn Metroid game and Smash was the only game on the 64 that had Samus in it.

>>384809932
rising thunder was a success. i didnt play it but they got bought by riot based on a free to play early access game.

>>384806251
>looks worst than KoF XIV
>looks worst than marvel vs capcom infinite
how do they do this

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>Western dev makes fighting game with dodgy kickstarter site
>looks awful
>Japanese devs makes fighting as a joke
>looks fantastic

>>384810339
Exactly. There's nothing wrong with enjoying smash and just having a bit of fun. But let's not pretend that people got into it in the first place because it's "DA PINNACLE OF HARDCORE FIGHTAN GAEMZ" because that's a laughable notion, and the problem with these types of games (fantasy strike etc) is that it's trying to bridge a gap between two completely seperate audiences (casual smash players and FGC) that have absolutely no interest in each other.

>>384808390
Right. The problem casuals always had with fighting games wasn't the execution, it was the fact that they got their ass beat and didn't want to invest the time and effort necessary to get the most out of the games.
That, and most FG's have limited single player content to mess around with.

>>384810658
Where can I play this successful game?

>>384809932
It was shilled heavily but the reaction was mixed and it was never around long enough for anyone to really dig into it. At best some liked the idea, some didn't
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw

>>384810658
>early access game.
You mean disappear for years with literally no word on it

>>384806251
Looks pretty cool, I like the cell shaded effect. What's the story, is it out now?

>>384807062
Yeah I don't think I've ever actually liked anything he's done. This game looks so much better than it did the last time I saw it though.

I like the idea of how this game has short as fuck combos and is like all fundamentals but somehow short combos makes the game seem slower.

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>>384810658
>Rising Thunder
>Success
This thread is killing me.

>>384810339
S T I N K Y D A Y

>>384810874
It wasn't successful as a game, but definitely was as a project from the developers point of view. They got a lot of money. The game sucked, tho.

God no. This might be a decent budget title, but there's absolutely nothing about this game that's going to capture the majority of the fighting game playerbase.

Not to mention it looks awful.

>>384810840
And the single player content does jack shit to actually train game mechanics. Fighting games don't have levels where you see how shit works against basic enemies, then a boss stepping it up, repeating until you're well versed in your character's mechanics and overall strategy. They just have training mode which isn't even part of the "game" since there's no winner or loser, just a dummy for you to poke around with.

>Fighting games have added a huge amount of complexity over the years in ways that have created more and more of a physical execution barrier. Fantasy Strike is about getting to the strategy part of the game immediately, in the first minute you play it. No complex motions for special moves and no need to practice combos in training mode. Emphasizing player-decisions over difficult dexterity is a much deeper commitment than simply letting you do special moves easily—it's a commitment to avoid fiddly, unintuitive, difficult-to-execute techniques throughout the game. If you don't know what plinking, kara cancels, option selects, charge partitioning, FADCs, or crouch techs are, you don't have to. Instead you can focus on the fundamentals of fighting games: distancing, timing, zoning, setups, reads, and strategy.

>You also don't have to worry about doing moves with 1/60th of a second accuracy, as is common in fighting games. In Fantasy Strike, anytime you try to do a move, we automatically repeat your input for 8/60ths of a second to make sure it comes out, every time. The hard part should be deciding if you want to do a move, not in getting it to happen once you've decided.

This seriously sounds fantastic and is just what fighting games need. If you know the move you should be able to do it and not lose just because your timing was 1/60th of a second off. That's just cheap.

>>384810779
I don't even get why they try to simplify these games just for Smash people. Though they have some similar aspects, Smash is also fundamentally different in ways like movement and stages. In other fighters, you're almost always facing your opponent. Simpler inputs for special moves is purely to accommodate for the difference in movement.

>>384811732
Fighting games don't need to get dumber and more boring, they just need to provide better options to segregate players by skill level.

>>384811645
There are some games with great and extensive tutorials that are designed by people who know what they're talking about.
GG Revelator is the best current example.

At the end of the day though, anyone who's afraid to jump in and play real people just won't fit in.

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>>384806251
Is this the continuation of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg7opyrLOKE?

>>384810658
>rising thunder was a success
lol

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>>384811732
>This seriously sounds fantastic and is just what fighting games need. If you know the move you should be able to do it and not lose just because your timing was 1/60th of a second off. That's just cheap.

>I shouldn't lose just because the other guy is better than me

>>384811732
To be honest, Tekken 7 does this without also being boring as hell.

>>384807249
Which one? It's probably fine as long as it's not a trans.

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>>384811732
>and not lose just because your timing was 1/60th of a second off
No its because you sucked is why you lost.

>>384806251
Finally a fighting game that white guys can be good at!

>>384812241
The challenge should be about the mind games and mastering the fundamentals, not from fighting against ridiculous inputs.

literally fighting game made for /v/

looks pretty fun desu

they just need to speed up some of the animations. Also I hate how clockman struts like a woman when he does his super. not cool at all

>>384812368
It's a fucking videogame. If you want it to be solely about decision making, go play fucking chess.

>>384811645
>>384812065
There are three main problems with teaching players with single player.

One is most just skip that shit. People are always on about these games with amazing tutorials but most just go nah fuck that I want to play, just look at every single lets player which is how casuals play games. They don't want to sit and learn which means they will never get good at fighting games. Look at the most popular fighting games right now, fuck all tutorials. Look at some of the least like GG, KI or Skullgirls, amazing tutorials. It just doesn't actually work.

The other option is trying to make teaching fun. For execution this can actually work, tag 2 had something neat where enemies could only be beaten by certain combos which could have been expanded. But for a game that is just meant to be fundamentals it is straight up impossible to teach with single player, that requires human opponents and a good understanding of the game. But people don't want to face human opponents and possibly lose.

The biggest problem is people want to have something that makes them good at fighting games, that is impossible. Getting good is a process over time, a lot of modern games you get the idea straight away so gimmicks are thrown in over time. You can play fighting games for a year and still not be considered actually good.

>>384812562
Looks good. It's dumb to have to buy a $300 fight stick just to be able to play one game.

>>384812562
>jump button

Fucking dropped.

>>384812065
They're good tutorials, but they don't even qualify as single player; there's no combat to speak of. What I mean is fighting games need a single player beat em up. Stage progression and an actual difficulty curve.

>>384812368
Translation
>I'm bad at execution so it shouldn't be there! I'll become great at the game in no time without it

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>>384812562
>2D plane
>jump is mapped to a fucking face button
>block is still back

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>>384812562
>jump button

>>384812642
>have to
>$300
>one game

Where are you even getting your misinformation?

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>>384812628
Sure there is. You make a single player beat em up, where the enemies are designed to exploit bad behavior and you figure out how to open them up while minimizing risk. Basically make this game 2D (no, not the literal 2D Ninja Gaiden).

>>384812865
Why not?

>>384812628
I mean I don't disagree with you. There's nothing they can put into their games that can compensate for a lack of individual drive to improve.

Sirlin got in way over his head when he decided to make a fighting game. He didn't realize just how difficult it is to design an input and input buffering system so he copped out and made the controls monkey mode.

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>>384812642
>have to

>>384811732
You know other fighting games have done this right? Rising Thunder and Pocket Fighter are two that come to mind.

They were decent, but they're not going to revitalize the genre or bring new players in by the droves. These games require you to learn fundamentals still, and that's something normies don't have the patience to learn.

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>>384812642

>>384806251
anyone else really like this guy's content but find his speech pattern really really fucking annoying?

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I just accepted that i will never be good at fighting games but i do enjoy watching them. Nobody wants to play/watch some gimped western shit.

>>384812642
I don't know man, I've competed at a relatively high level at tons of majors in a couple games and the only thing I don't play on pad is Tekken, and in that case I only use hitbox when I'm playing Mishimas.

>>384812368
People who would drop a game because they can't be arsed to learn quarter-circle motions or spend 20 minutes in training mode learning some simple combos will have shit fundamentals, lose constantly, never drive to get better and drop the game.

You can't just dumb a game down and pander to scrubs, those aren't the people who stick with a game and build a community. Scrubs do have a part in selling games, they're the people who see crazy combos and cool moves, buy the game, learn that they're scrubs and quit, but you can't build a playerbase off that

>>384813131
That game is so far removed from a fighting game that there's no point in even comparing them. You can't just turn a 3D action game into a fighter.

>>384806251
does it look slow to any one else?

>>384813453
I didn't like the content or his speech pattern

>>384813450
Heh I'll give you this one blacks.

>>384812912
Try winning EVO without one. In a non-NRS game of course.

dashes were a mistake. I'll play it just for not having dashes

I literally switched to keyboard because I got so sick of wiggling my arm nonstop playing other games. Characters walk like turtles in newer fighting games

>>384813631
Luffy won SF4 with a PS1 controller and several adapters.

>>384813631
Snakeeyez says hi.

>>384812826
There's a perfectly good argument against shit like 1 frame links and fadcs in bnbs and like basic stuff that does adequate damage or reasonable utility.

This game made sense when SF4 was the game and you needed to be able to srk fadc ultra to even begin to compete and your easy combos were complete shit compared to your good ones but it doesn't make sense now.

>>384813131
People don't just have one obvious trait though, even with straight up awful players that is rare. Plus there is more to fundamentals than that, what would likely happen is they would figure out one punish and just do that on everything.

If someone could do what you wanted AI would be better in general cause it is actually a huge task for the amount of options in a fighting game.

>>384813229
>that can compensate for a lack of individual drive to improve.
Really that is what it comes down to, someone has to want to get into a game and if they do. Fighting games can stay a niche genre, they get a trickle in every gen and it keeps it alive.

>>384813453
I said the exact same thing yesterday. His ideas are great, his voice and enunciation are shit and it makes it hard to listen to him.

>>384813631
Literally half the competitive Tekken playerbase uses pads.

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ideas are great, but i feel like the grandstand appeal of multiplayer games these days is that you can jump in with a bunch of your bros at once, and that "solving" the problems of fighting games isnt gonna lead to a bigger audience

smash is big because you can get 4 people in a single match. 8 if were talking about Smash U but it gets completely stupid at that point

>>384813631
Apart from the fact that it's been done, you don't need to be able to win evo to play the game.

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>>384813667
What's wrong with dashing exactly?

>>384813631
A lot of SF players play without them and do great. Snakeeyez and Luffy come to mind, also there's this dude playing with a SEGA Saturn controller.

>>384813948
I think his beef is that regular walking is slow as fuck in a lot of games.

>We want the chinese audience

>>384813713
>shit like 1 frame links and fadcs
No, cause you don't have to use them. If you can't do fadc combos just cr.mk hadoken, over time your execution improves and you start adding more technical combos to your arsenal

It's like saying you need to have EWGF to play Kazuya, but if you are 1st Dan and playing with everyone else who is just learning you really don't.

>>384813835
I don't see how they manage but godspeed for them. I had to buy my first stick just for Tekken 7 because the abundance of diagonals was impossible on the Xbone's dpad.

>>384813948
you have to double tap all the time to move around
adds hardly anything to the game since a lot of these games especially anime games you're dashing constantly and hardly ever walk at all

and tekken is even worse. Walking is slow and you can't cancel a dash with another dash so you have to do this retarded korean backdash shit just to move backward at a decent speed

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RIOT bought the Rising Thunder devs, and very recently got visited by ArcSys

when they made that Minions/Mechs board game shit, they consulted other makers/reviewers of board games during the process, so im guessing thats what theyre doing with ArcSys here

its semi-offtopic but i wonder whatever these guys are cooking up is gonna be big and possible leverage the genre like they did with LoL

>>384812642
The Qanba Obsidian is 200 dollarydoos and many tourney winners use that one. You can also just buy a shitty cheap stick and swap out the lever for a good sanwa one for about 20 bucks.

>>384813180
Although it may have seemed like a fluke of design at first, some specific controls being associated to directions (up for jump and back for block) mean you have to open yourself to potential enemy attack to perform them, bringing risk-reward mechanics to those moves.

>>384812654
That's the one thing on there that isn't stupid. Pressing up to jump has always sucked.

>>384814386
Well their board game sucked shit and Rising Thunder was okay at best so they'd better either take all the notes they can get from ArcSys or just do the responsible thing and let them have license to make a LoL fighter for them.

>>384814490
wat

>>384812368
If quarter circles are ridiculous outputs to you I'm afraid you probably don't have a brain for mindgames.

>>384813667
Funny enough I feel the opposite. I find it difficult to play without dashes. The option to just burst right in can be strong. I really favor high mobility options, and it's one reason I could never get into SF2. But to be fair, I started playing fighting games through a game where you can fly so maybe that's why.

>>384814201
>I don't see how they manage
Because every single one of them grew up playing the game on their consoles, which ever one it may be, and did so at a time when buying a stick wasn't very practical or available (durability was always an issue along with price). So at this point, it's pure preference and a stick won't add much to their gameplan to justify it. Now someone like me who only enjoys Soul Calibar as a 3D fighter might try learning Tekken from the ground up on a stick, but that's because my experience isn't nearly the same. Plus, I hate playing fighters on a dpad, shit does a number to my thumb.

>>384814386
While I don't think this was the purpose of their visit, a ArcSys game with League's characters stylised in the GG 2.5d style and visual novel story could be pretty good.

>>384812368
find yourself a nice rts or shooter then

>>384813592
Here's what I mean. Level 1 in NGB you're up against dudes that pretty much just attack. You figure out blockstrings/when it's your "turn", when to counter with your own swings and which swing to use, and a bit of jumping. You can lean hard on blocking.
The boss upends that. If you mash he kicks your ass. If you just hold block he kicks your ass. You figure out to whiff punish or punish on recovery, and avoid backing yourself into a corner. As the game progresses you get enemies that punish blocks and cut your throat, punish jump-ins and impale you on a bayonet, and so on.

There's really no reason why a fighting game couldn't have a campaign where spacing and whiff punishing, priority, grabs, when to jump in, and so on couldn't be taught bit by bit through combat.

>>384812368
Inputs ARE a fundamental. If you can't do a DP you're just as shit as someone who can't read or time attacks.

>>384814668
>leagues characters

Why would you want the absolute worst thing about League again?

>>384814364
I don't understand how any of this is a problem?
Double tapping is hard for you?

I just really can't understand what you're trying to get at with this. If dashes weren't in the game, every fighting game would be an up close game of footsie and any character who's geared towards mid range or long distance fighting is practically useless.
Not to mention the game would be slow as shit.

Also, Korean backdashing (also known as backdash cancelling) is cancelling a backdash. It's right in the name and it can be done with a forward dash too.

>>384814386
It will be interesting if they do

If it is still rising thunder I don't think it will do all that well, maybe a lot of polish could help but it was kinda just SF4 for dummies with shit designs outside the fat robot. If it is LoL fighter that will be interesting seeing how far the IP can carry it, have they put their characters in other games yet?

Either way it will be interesting to see how they interact with the FGC. I doubt many would like it seeing how capcom is already seen as overbearing.

>>384814842
RTS games and FPS games that aren't crap require plenty of execution too.

>>384814960
>If dashes weren't in the game, every fighting game would be an up close game of footsie and any character who's geared towards mid range or long distance fighting is practically useless.
Then what is Street Fighter 2?

>>384814892
I mean in theory that could be done but it's effectiveness would be pretty debatable. I guess there would have to be a real example of it first.

>>384814939
Their characters are the only good thing about the damn game.

>>384815124
>Then what is Street Fighter 2?
A relic that people can't seem to let go.

>>384814960
>too hard for u??? xD
unnecessary and straining on my hand

And you can't cancel a dash with another dash. You have to cancel it by crouching first. Tapping back 4 times literally will not work.

and no it would not be slow. You could make walking faster and give characters movement specials just like many characters already have

>>384815124
A broken game that had all those problems, along with plenty of others.

>>384809932
>>384810658
Rising thunder was horrible, and wasn't even a beginner friendly game. The dev team was clearly conflicted between making a game as simple as possible for casuals and trying to copy Street Fighter 4, which made the game a worse Street Fighter and not even beginner friendly. For example they added in single button inputs for skills, but then combos were extremely important because a full combo did significantly more damage than a single hit, and many combos required you to do FADCs. If you can't expect a beginner to do a 236 for a fire ball, how can you expect them to do FADC's?

>>384815069
>plenty of execution
most things do anon, there's no point in knowing what to do if you can't do it, but neither of them use the 623P's the /v/ hate so much

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>>384813667
>>384814490
Truly a new low for /v/

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>>384813631
It's been done several times. Just because people who are super dedicated use sticks does not mean it's the stick that makes them good. They're good with or without them but the arcades use sticks and that's all it comes down to. It's what we're used to.

literally zangief body splash used by that rock guy

>>384815357
no point discussing video games on /v/ with so many "le git gud xD" losers like this

they all think they are hot shit for playing fighting games on /v/ like they're special snowflakes

>>384811732
>Fighting games have added a huge amount of complexity over the years

Right off the bat they're wrong, fighting games 10+ years ago were the ones that had stupid hard skill inputs and usually had horrible input readers. Now every fighting game today is trying to make inputs easier, adding easy control modes, make inputs more homogenized, etc.

>>384814451
That applies to button block, which the game doesn't even use, but not to button jump.

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>>384815489
It's easy to feel like a special snowflake when /v/ is nothing but a sea of casuals who complain about the game not playing itself for them.

>>384815616
no I've been playing games for years and play technical games. You're just too dumb to take any criticism of fighting game design and respond with predictable meme shit

just like any time there's a down down move in a game /v/ freaks out about muh hardcore dp motion. pathetic

>>384815249
The game was stupid in the first place for using SF4 instead of ST as its starting reference. It also had extremely boring aesthetics and no personality.

>>384815226
What the fuck are you talking about? ST was all about the midrange.

>>384815823
Yeah science cannot even begin to measure how much I don't give a fuck about Rising Thunder's cast.

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>>384814386
>possible leverage the genre like they did with LoL
>all 2 moba games that are so radically different in every way and definitely aren't shit

>>384815794
Your "criticism" is you don't like to double tap to dash or press up to jump. You're the only one who's pathetic here.

>>384814580
Hititng a button is way more precise.

>>384813453
Yeah, same for me.

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>>384815794
>People literally complaining about having to press up to jump or pressing back twice to dash

This is "criticism"? You said it yourself.
>I've been playing games for years and play technical games.

But you're defending something that requires basic hand-eye coordination that 2 year old can pull off (I play Tekken with my best friend's toddler and he can do both).

>>384816134
If pushing up on a stick is too imprecise for you then you've probably actually got severe nerve damage. Do you get pins and needles in your pinkies and your ring fingers?

>>384814386
last i heard people said that after they got the people from RT they let them work on something but then canned the whole thing

>>384806251

Not with those boring ass character designs and graphics. Why does every game that claims to be beginner friendly and changing the way FGs are played have generic almost stock assets look to them?

>>384816316
>I play Tekken with my best friend's toddler
EVO READY

>>384816069
because double tap to move is stupid and adds nothing to the game

the only downside to dashing forward in guilty gear is that it has a recovery animation, but it can be cancelled instantly by tapping back + two buttons. Everyone dashes all the time. It only adds more movements to do basic things.

>>384816316
I never said I can't dash. I said it's unnecessary and stressful to do constantly you braindead /v/ kid

>>384814638
Cool, because walking in ST feels like dashing in other games.

>>384816545
>Unnecessary and stressful

Tapping a direction twice causes you stress? Too much stress to make use of the benefits that dashing give you?

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>>384816545
>because double tap to move is stupid and adds nothing to the game
>Adds nothing
>hold direction
move
>tap direction
move quicker, cover extra distance
>adds nothing to the game
pic related, you're a retard

>>384806251
jesus fuck

put the speed to 1.25x to stop mr molasses from taking forever to explain this garbage

>>384816545
>adds nothing to the game
Wrong. If you just dashed all the time the controls would be incredibly imprecise. You need that slower speed to get more precise movement.

>stressful to do constantly
Maybe these just aren't the games for you?

>>384815226
>he never played SF2

>>384816545
I bet you think KoF's three extra kinds of jumps are stupid and add nothing to the game.

>>384816725
god you're fucking stupid

>Too much stress to make use of the benefits that dashing give you?
I'm criticizing the design of the game so this is a nonsensical question

>>384816761
you're fucking stupid because I just told you there are many games where people hardly use walk because dashing is simply better but requires more inputs

>>384816331
I notice you're not disagreeing here. If jump's a separate button, you never have to worry about accidentally jumping when doing a 360/720, TK moves become way more intuitive, no accidental double jumps when doing specials in the air, and so on. Also a if a game has short hops, it can work more like every platformer in existence. There's a reason those games didn't use up to jump.

>>384806251
>in this game every attack has a use
Does this shithead seriously believe that every other fighter has moves people don't use?

>>384816856
>If you just dashed all the time the controls would be incredibly imprecise.
not on keyboard or hitbox

just look at gootecks when he tried hitbox. He was dashing everywhere and said how easy it was to move.

because most people are used to the bad game design and playing on a joystick where dashing constantly takes a lot of unnecessary effort.

I'll play on keyboard so I don't strain my hands with shitty game design but I'll still point out how shitty the basic design is

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I like SF V as gateway game into fighting games. it got me really into fgs after dicking around at the tail end of usf 4 and since then i've been branching out to other games, which is much easier now that i know how fgs are generally meant to be played.

back then i couldn't even combo in usf4, recently i reinstalled it and managed to hit tons of 1f stuff simply because i am just so much more used to playing these games because of sf v also usf4 feels like ass when you come of sf v, feels so weird

>>384817051
Input precision is PEBKAC.

>>384816989
Which games favor dashing over not, i'm genuinely curious.

>>384817051
Literally none of those are problems and platformers control like shit compared to fighting games.

>tk moves become way more intuitive
You're high as fuck aren't you.

>>384806251
>Can Fantasy Strike save fighting games?
From that video it looks slow as fuck so my answer's no.

>>384813615
yeah, looks awful

>>384817276
most anime games

and sfv favors dashing a lot more than previous sf games. Just look at infiltration winning evo with nash. He dashed almost nonstop and caught people by surprise.

>>384812642
wow you're actually retarded

It's not fightan, but doesn't Souls sort of disprove that simplicity automatically makes a game casual friendly? The action & RPG elements are simple as shit compared to a lot of classics in both genres like DMC, NG, Classic Fallout, and Deus Ex, yet the games are still notorious for being difficult and not very casual friendly

>>384817226
SFV is a decent gateway, but it's also a bad game. SF4 was much better and it wasn't even all that good.

>>384813615
Yeah, but considering that they want the game to be as newbie-friendly as possible it's probably intentional.

Still not as bad as literally every indie smash clone video hyping "lighting-fast gameplay" and then showing footage even slower than this, though.

>>384816989
>Everyone and their mother calling you out for your idiocy
>Has the balls to call others stupid.

You can argue your bullshit all you want here, but let's just end this here. Dashing, or double tapping for a dash is not some sort of design flaw like you're trying so desperately to argue.

You're ignoring all the benefits of a dashes because it has one extra input than you think it needs and because it's not walking. That's all you've got.

You don't recognize that dashing covers much more distance than walking in a much quicker time frame. Not to mention, back dashes open up opportunities for whiff punishing, and important part of fighting games. Not to mention the specific game-related benefits of dashing.
Anime fighters tend to give you momentum for combos and set ups when you dash+jump or if you air dash.
Even SFIV's backdashes had uses. They had invincibility frames on them.

Regardless of how badly you want walking to be main form of movement in fighting games, it won't happen because they've moved so far past those days.

But hey, Tekken has back walking now. So go play that and shut the fuck up please.

Its a massive piece of shit
Man even the fucking card game did fighting games better than their actual attempt at a fighting game

>>384817276
>Which games favor dashing over not, i'm genuinely curious.
pretty much every anime fighter actually

>>384817607
Souls is also pretty easy compared to those games.

>>384817371
2369236 was confusing as hell. Screw you.

>>384817684
That doesn't favor dashing, it's still fundamentally situational, and that purely is only because of the amount of screen space that's allotted to the players. Situational only because sometimes, it requires you to cover more ground, but in the face of your opponent, it's fucking stupid to use outside of cancels or openings that give you a frame advantage, like SFV's breaks.

>>384817625
then they should do something else, lime maybe change the animations to better fit the games actual speed

>>384817946
>That doesn't favor dashing, it's still fundamentally situational
haha you have literally no idea what you're talking about

>>384817795
This is true, but that doesn't change the fact that it has a rep for being hard amongst casuals & it's easy to grasp systems don't make it more enticing to them

>>384817517
I honestly think the only way you'd have a valid argument is if all fighters played like smash or even powerstone, in that the direction you hit is the direction your character faces AND moves. In traditional fighters, your argument holds no weight because it will always be a spacing game over a screen placement game.

>>384813450
black people dont even like fighting games or anything that requires learning. all of them play NBA:2K where they can shoot, steal and run

>>384813667
I feel the same.

Overall fast walkspeed at this point is like a forgotten ancient Chinese technique. Just keep playing older games.

>>384818371
>black people dont even like fighting games
Why do people who have literally no idea what the fuck they're talking about always feel inclined to give their opinions?

>>384818485
because this is le dark secret corner of the internet, and racism is how we fit in, right guys?

>>384818485
the only blacks i can think of are PUNK, SMUG, SONIC FOX, and LTG. the rest are usually asians and a few whites

The problem with fighting games right now isn't the games, we are actually in a fantastic time right now for fighting games, the problem is the FGC can't get off of capcom's dick and don't tolerate new IP's.

Anything that's not like a 20+ year old franchise or a clone of them gets dismissed. Of the fighting game franchises released in the past 5-10 years, only one of them really still has an FGC following, and that's injustice.

>>384815249
>>384812245
>>384813447
Pokken did this really well too, move inputs are simple, and the game is very fundamental/mindgame focused, but actual combo execution for optimal or near optimal stuff still has a decent executional skillgap for the timing and spacing for most characters; and you really need to know your MU's to do well due to how different every character plays. The attack height system in pokken is also more complex then it is in most other fighters, and that combined with the phase shift mechanic adds a lot of depth at higher level play that other fighters don't have.

But it's a victim of what I describe above as well: It's not a established franchise and it's nintendo and it has a few unique gameplay systems so people just dismiss it and don't even realize it's a competitive title or how in line it actually is with other traditional fighters.

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>>384816989
>you're fucking stupid
>/v/ still thinking it understands fighting games in the year of our lore two thousand and seventeen

>>384818614
Basically everyone who plays DOA is black.

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>>384818371
>black people don't even like fighting games
this ironic racism was funny at first but now it's getting old, get some new joks senpai

>>384818485
because this is a fightan thread on /v/

>>384818628
>Anything that's not like a 20+ year old franchise or a clone of them gets dismissed
>Pokken
Found your issue, people straight up dislike the game you are shilling and they don't need a good reason to. SFV having issues doesn't stop people preferring games like that over everything else. They aren't in the FGC for everything they are in it for SF.

Make a game people actually want to play and people will build a community

>>384818628
You've got a lot of valid points, but I just want to say that I disagree with the FGC being on Capcom's dick.

Capcom still has a pretty big presence in the Fighting game genre because they still put out content and they're still putting money into the community and their tournaments, but people are wising up and finding refuge in the newer fighting games coming out.

Tekken's seen a massive resurgence. Arksys is gearing up to take the genre with Xrds being so successful, DBZF is shaping up to be everything MvCI isn't. The new Arika EX game has a lot of people excited for a new alternative to Street Fighter.
Not to mention we're finally moving away from smash clones and starting to see some traditional fighting games come out of the indie scene.
I, for one, have been keeping a very close eye on Punch Planet.

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>>384806251
the game is good and people shit talking it never played it. its good when you have friends that normally dont play fighting games, so its a blast as a party game and still be pretty competitive.
What fun is a fighting game in this situation? You spend weeks getting familiar with your character and even then you can only play with people in a similar skill level, which can differ a LOT.
In this situation, the gap is much smaller and it takes much less time for everyone to grasp the concepts of characters - and even fighting games in general.

>>384819196
>tfw KOF14 could have been one of those games
>got left in the dust instead

>>384810710
Why are japanese fighting games so far superior?

>>384806251
I can see purists really hating this for "hur dur casuals no skill controls cheapens future games"

>>384819471
Yea idk why that happened. They had a good thing going, but they just stopped. It's not like SNK has a whole hell of a lot going for it. You'd think they'd show some attention to one of the few games they have out right now.

>>384819335
>. its good when you have friends that normally dont play fighting games
any fighting game is fun like that, you just go easy on them as you have to in this style of simplified game anyway.

>the gap is much smaller
This honestly isn't true. If you have a basic knowledge of fundamentals you will destroy people anyway and it is a lie this game makes them learn quicker. Just makes it easier for them to find the "good button" and try to hammer it.

>>384819503
My problem is that it looks slow, floaty as fuck, shallow, and like it's trying desperately to be another fighting game.
Not to mention it visually looks very unappealing. There's no frills, or flashieness, and even the punches lack any significant oomph behind them.

Just looks like a bargain bin title you'll find in the indie section for a buck fifty.

The ideas presented are pretty good, but it just doesn't look appealing in any way whatsoever.

Also this would be a bigger hit on the Switch because of the easy controls fitting the joycons.

>>384819471
It was ugly and nothing special. Many in the community see it as a downgrade, didn't help the game was poke max mode for the longest time plus some awful balance. They needed to hit the ground running but fell on their face and have only just dusted themselves off.

>>384819335
>its good when you have friends
Any game is good with friends.
>In this situation, the gap is much smaller
If anything the gap is wider now since casuals don't have the input excuse to fall back on. Anyone with even a basic understanding of fundamentals is gonna shit all over a new player in this.

>>384819575
But they do? SNK is going out of its way to support the game.

It's the western audience that didn't catch on.

>>384820031
>It's the western audience that didn't catch on.
The game didn't do exceptional in Japan either

>>384818950
>don't like

More like haven't even tried it, which is what I was saying. Over the past year, I can count the amount of people who have actually tried it and hated it on one hand. 99% of the people who hate it haven't even played it and just assume it's a casual liscense fighter even though it's not just due to >nintendo, or assume it's slow keepaway trash due to the evo showing, even though that was when the game was less then a month old and isn't represnetive of how it's played now.

>>384819196
Capcom is certainly starting to take a lot of flak with SFV and MvCI, but I don't see the general close mindedness towards things that are new or different going away anytime soon.

>>384819503
It kinda does though. Isn't it a little less interesting when everyone's doing the same combos and stuff?

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>>384806251

>that feel when all character designs that aren't obscenely over-designed have been done ad nauseum and are all tropes/cheap knock-offs at this point

Pic unrelated there are no nazi fighters

>>384820140
This is exactly the problem SFV is facing right now.

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>>384820021
>>384819735
absolutely not true, speaking of real experience. I have a very good knowledge of fundamentals and recently got friends over to play this. People who never played any fighting game before, but have knowledge of games in general. They took what, ten minutes to begin reading moves and reactin. Because that is just what it is: reacting and predicting. And if you know inputs, if you can instintively understand the frame data and what "works" and what "does not work", in four or five matches you will begin to understand the fundamentals.

>>384820137
>More like haven't even tried it,
Not even slightly true, even Justin was trying pokken out for real at the start. he lost interest though. You've just got a victim complex.

>even though that was when the game was less then a month old and isn't represnetive of how it's played now.
So now they can't just even try it, they must keep trying it for months and keep on top of all the developments in the meta. Hey guess what they can still not like it after that

if we want to talk about close minded, how about you not being able to accept people don't like Pokken and many other games.

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>>384820213
Bruh, Akatsuki Blitzkampf is what you're look for. Not exactly Nazi's, but it's close and the designs are pretty tame. This one's about as crazy as it gets (except for the gigantic skull tank)

>>384806251
Never mind the game even, the game should be completely ignored simply due to the fact that the developers scammed people through kickstarter and then spent the money on advertising this game to try and real more suckers in.

>>384820213
I think indie devs are having some sort of competition to make the most bland, tasteless characters possible these days. Dauntless, that Icons smash clone, and now this. Just shitty, bland, soulless designs all over the place.

>>384820295
Not sure why my post was quoted, but I will add this. The majority of people who are exposed to this title have no actually been able to play it. So what people like myself have to go on, is what's in the trailers that are shown. And what's been shown in the trailers is not impressive in the slightest.

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>>384820219
>>384820140

All SFV needs is a "v-ism" custom combo system for every character

Just to raise the ceiling of gameplay and make it exciting again.

[Spoiler] Make it cost no meter but it slowly drains your health when activated, forcing players to commit [/spoiler]

>>384818614
wat.

Wait is your idea of "fighting games"? Smash bros?

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>>384806251
Why do people seriously think they need to become super good at fighters to have fun with them? What happened to just playing with friends and having fun? Are people just dissatisfied with their own play now that the internet has shown them what good players are like that they demand they must be top level players to enjoy themselves, even if it means simplifying the rest of the game?

>>384812562

>do nothing

Casuals will still be blown the fuck out.

>>384820295
>speaking of real experience
If this is a game of anecdotes I have a better one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw

>>384820584

Turns out people who code aren't necessarily the most creative bunch.

>>384819950
It's the closest to a traditional footsies fighter we've got in recent years. That alone makes it special. Also, downgrade to what? '98, '02UM? Sure, but those are two games which players won't budge anyway. To XIII? Certainly not though.

Poke into max mode can be an issue, but not by itself. The real culprit is the overall meter gain. Balance? Well, it's not that different from other KOF, or other games as a matter of fact.

>>384820219
I like the way Dead or Alive does it, where there's a generous input buffer, a lot of leniency in the combo system, and a ridiculous amount of time to hit confirm in most situations. Then all the technical skill comes from knowing all of the optimal punishes against different weight classes and environmental combos, which are pretty hard. And some more nuanced weirdness like fuzzy guarding.

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>>384821185

I'm not that good and I got matched with M2K in bracket

Follow your dreams!

>>384821185
Easy excuses so they can justify their lack of dedication.
Also, you lose a lot in fighting games. People these days can't handle the emotional trauma of getting out skilled in a fighting game.

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>>384806251
no, because its ugly
bring back pixel sprites

>>384820584
The problem is how they design stuff and rather what inspires them.

If we look at old SF designs they get ideas from literally everywhere and every media, while also making sure it fits. Characters like Ryu don't even really have much of a twist to them, but they were inspired by what they like to craft something special. For stuff like Icons they have literally said comic books, overwatch and mobas. Basically they have been as unoriginal as it gets to cash in on what is popular.

>>384821310
The problem is they've hired actual artists though, so that excuse doesn't fly.

>>384820461
>even Justin was trying pokken out for real at the start.

Yes, for like 2 weeks. We both know that's not enough time to gauge how the meta for a game will develop, especially for a brand new franchise that you don't have the familiarity of a past game in the series.

>>384820101
Japan isn't KOF's only eastern market.

>>384821185
People are too use to winning. They forgot loss, punishment ans improvement is a big part of games. Which is fine if they want that, but not every genre should offer that

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>>384821185
thats how I'd like to play, but none of my friends want to play fighting games more than once a month
I dont want to get good just to fight strangers online I want to improve alongside someone whos just as new as me

>>384821842
It didn't do well in any, even the PC release which everyone was going would get SNK's real poor fuck audience on board

>>384819503
Ironically it's the enthusiasts who see the value in a game like this and the casuals on /v/ shitting on it because they want to impress people

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>>384806251
This video makes me extremely upset, this guy keeps talking about shit that's either straight up wrong or he's projecting himself into other people. Like for example he says "Every veteran fighting game player stuck it out through the two walls of execution because of *Outside factor". Maybe people practiced their execution because they like the feel of improving? What about people who like practicing their execution and figuring out their own cool combos? What if people got better not because they forced themselves, but because THEY ACTUALLY ENJOY IMPROVING?

I played this at evo and it's really not very good

It is the ultimate bare bones fighting game with each character having maybe four moves they can do at any given time and one obviously being the right one. Characters are generally pure archetypes with no frills. I can see it MAYBE being useful for someone who has never played a fighting game before to get an overview of character types or something, but that's all, it will get stale to anyone else in about 15 minutes if that.

Just play a simple but good fighter like ABK if you want something like that

>>384821968
Not even in China?

>>384821975
>Surely everyone else who agrees with me is smart, sensible and correct, just like me! Everyone else who disagrees is stupid and has bad reasons why!

Don't stick your head so far up your ass.

>>384822024
Plus it isn't like you must breech the walls first, it is something you do in together. You realise the guy never blocks low, so you go figure out a combo for when people don't block low and next time you meet someone who does that you blow them up.

>>384822237
>25K
http://steamspy.com/app/571260

>>384822252
He is right though, it's a similar thing to how you see a lot of shitters hating on shotos for being simple and easy to play while good players usually respect good shoto players a lot

>>384822252
lol

just observing the many talented players at EVO being open minded to this game compared to the /v/ response

>>384806607
Rising Thunder would have been great had it not been braindead. Same can be said for a lot of games but it looked nice and the concept was cool.

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>>384822538
Yeah guys be open minded and stuff like OMG did you see they fixed chun's face anything is possible I ain't a shill

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>>384822538
>enthusiasts see value in this game
/v/'s going to literally kill me today.

>>384822438
Well, allow me to stand corrected and replace "western audience" in my post with "literally nobody".

>>384822490
It's one thing to say "There are some smart people who agree with me". It's another thing to say "People who agree with me are smart and people who disagree with me are stupid".

>>384822538
There are also many good players who dislike games just like this, so what's your point? I'm personally against this game because they scammed a shit ton of people on kickstarter with a separate project.

>>384822538
>just observing the many talented players at EVO being open minded to this game

Like who? I hate to throw the word around but this is the exact kind of sentence you'd hear from someone who is shilling the game. "Yeah there are lots of people who love our game! Totally! I won't say who except for the people who we've literally paid!"

>>384822538
Name one.

>>384822582
I don't think Rising Thunder got the recognition it deserved. It had its problems, but at least they tried to give the game some depth and variety with the different loadouts.

I honestly kind of wish RT got a full release so that people could still play it.

>>384823657
Riot bought them too soon. Like one day you heard about them and the next they get bought out and ceased to exist. I don't get why they didn't keep the game either, it was almost done and had a passionate team working on it who are probably not doing anything else right now.

>>384823872
Exactly. I get it. They got bought out and now had money to put into a new project, but there was just no logical reason to wrap up the game and put it out there. Even ff simply for the purpose of it being archived some where.

>>384807113
>>384807987

Its about removing the mendatory 100 hours of learning mechanics and jumping into the fun right away. There is a difference between loosing and understanding why you lost, and loosing and having no fucking ideas what was going on. The newbies will be able to reach the former right from the start.

Anyways, to me it's an experiment. I think the newbies will be pleased with this kind of gameplay, now, if the game is going to be popular or not is another question.

>>384824205
>an experiment

One that's been done multiple times with the same outcome.

Also
>Its about removing the mendatory 100 hours of learning mechanics

Is this a fighting game marketed towards special needs children or something?

>>384824205
>mendatory 100 hours of learning mechanics
Stop with this fucking meme already.

>>384824389

What other fighting games has taken this approach ?

>>384806251
Actually interested in this, was intrested in Rising Thunder too but that
got canned. Hoping this gets all the funding it needs to be made into an actual game

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>>384806251
this is some gamecredits shit.
feels like im watching a TED video or some dumb shit.

the game looks pretty good though, but is not going to save anybody, it needs more charm and not stealing style and animations from SF would be great.

>>384824469
Fighting game is the genre that takes the most time to learn to a point where you can have fun. People that starts the game usually just mash the buttons and then they get bored and never bother to learn. Learning fighting games takes so much time and effort, it's not for nothing that its niche as fuck.

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>>384812562
>do nothing

>>384824205
>100 hours of learning mechanics
But it isn't, you still have to learn all that stuff you can just hadoken easy. They actually now have to jump straight into the part which requires a deep understanding of the game that takes time and effort.

>understanding why you lost,
The fact you can do a combo has nothing to do with that. It wasn't a factor in the first place as a new player wouldn't have to learn the hardest combos straight away

>Anyways, to me it's an experiment.
Every game has easier inputs, some games have easy special input modes, many have autocombos and there are other games like this. It does nothing, every single time.

>>384824597
*extracredit

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>dumbing down the game as a whole rather than making certain characters more approachable than others
I play Paul partly because of how easy his combo execution is. Just make certain characters simpler to play while limiting their options.

>>384824495
Rising Thunder
Pocket Rumble
SFIV 3D Edition
Not to mention MvC3 and Blazblue offer simplified controls as an alternative as well.

>>384821738
Who cares how the meta turns out if the game is ass?

>>384824810
>Rising Thunder
Didnt failed, got bought
>Pocket Rumble
Literally who
>SFIV 3D Edition
Nigga you just don't make a fighting game for a console like the 3DS and expect it to be any kind of succesful unless its smash and even there it got a console version

Actually talking about smash, that would be a succesful attempt at a easy to learn and understand fighting game.

>>384825097
Yeah and it does it by not being a fighting game.

>>384825097
>Actually talking about smash, that would be a succesful
Cause it is low entry but incredibly high skill ceiling to the point where a step past the entry you get hug barriers around movement. But that ceiling is what kept it alive

this is low entry and low ceiling

>>384824620
It takes an hour tops and a play through of the game's tutorial to get a handle on basic mechanics.

Get the fuck outta here with this "100 hours of practice" bullshit.

>>384825097
I don't see the point of this post. These games are games that tried simplified inputs and got nowhere with them.

You're not refuting any of my examples, not to mention you didn't even bother to put your spin on the fact that popular games did it and it still didn't catch on.

Also, the RT team getting bought out doesn't disprove anything. It doesn't suddenly make the game a success nor does it prove anything about simplified inputs having any major benefit for a fighting game.

>>384824620
If you need to put in 100 hours to have fun then maybe the genre's not for you, that or you're just not playing the right opponent. The only real issue with fighting games is they haven't transitioned fully to online play yet, and by that I mean their ranking systems are almost always fucking garbage or just don't even exist. It's not an issue with the games themselves - you're getting shit on by people who are better than you because the devs can't be fucked to filter out skill levels. Making the game easier to play is never going to fix that because if the game's just using the same lobby systems they all use, the 20 year vet's still gonna shit all over little Timmy regardless of how hard the damn game is to learn.

>>384818726
>DOA
It should also be noted that DOA has a very, very large percentage of top payers who are women in terms of e-sports. Panty fighter stuff aside, they pushed hard to get more people competeing and it payed off in a way.

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>>384825426
>but incredibly high skill ceiling

>>384824205

The problem with this model is that a player experiences everything the game has to offer too quickly. There's little room for mechanical improvement, so the strategies present in the beginning comprise of most everything the player will ever see. If the player feels that they've experienced everything they ever will with that game several times over, what drive is there to continue playing?

>>384825649
*players

no payers, but I guess that too by proxy...

>>384824653
Because easy input and auto combo aren't a balanced part of the competitive game, they're either super fucking OP and not used seriously, or blatantly shit gimp modes. It's just something for people to mash their way through the story mode and maybe play a few matches with friends until they move on to the next game, if you actually want to get into the game nothing has changed.

>>384825915
>aren't a balanced
nigger most fighting games aren't balanced and at scrub level balance doesn't matter anyway because it isn't a true representation of a game.

>>384812245
Tekken is hard as fuck to play properly, what are you talking about

>>384812608
Chess is not real time

>>384825915
>Can't do a basic qcf or dp motion
>Doesn't know fundamentals or how to utilize character tools
>Is worried about balance

At that level, balance isn't even remotely a factor. If you don't know what you're doing and don't put in a little effort, your going to get your ass handed to you regardless of whether it's the most broken character in the game or the bottom of the bottom tier.

>>384825667
To play Fox at a top-level you have to be insanely technical, he's very high apm, and has very small frame windows to do even his bread and butter stuff

>>384825649
Huh. Is that true? Why?

>>384826473
Tekken doesn't have many motions which makes it a lot easier to get out the moves that you need to. The game as a whole is still hard as fuck to learn.

>>384814364
I don't mind running too much fundamentally because there tends to be actually interesting things involved there (run recovery, different jump arcs, etc.) but then you get into run cancels and you have the 2.5D Street Fighters where you have to mash the shit out of forward dash to cross the screen and have charge characters but have to backdash to move backwards usefully because that design choice makes any fucking sense at all and it's just retarded.

>>384821497
M2K will always be my favorite smasher

>>384826841
>Tekken doesn't have many motions
You need to be KBDing half the game, the motion of doing so is not that different form most motions

>>384826841
You can get pretty far just knowing how to block, how to wake up, what some good buttons are an literally anything off a launcher.

>>384827047
that describes every fighting game, Tekken ain't unique.

>>384814123
>No, cause you don't have to use them. If you can't do fadc combos just cr.mk hadoken, over time your execution improves and you start adding more technical combos to your arsenal
You could do cr.MK Hadouken for 1000 years and it would never make you able to FADC Ultra let alone link anything, and yes to play SFIV you need to be able to link because it's the difference between a 4 frame hit confirm being three jabs for 75 damage and getting jab fierce SRK FADC Ultra for 350 damage.

>>384807868
Smash players don't "want" this game though

>>384816856
Dashing is only imprecise by being fixed distance not speed.

>>384827282
Actually yeah practicing basic combos while playing the game in general does help. Yes there will be lab time on top but the general gameplay so you have a feel for the the game is very much needed.

>and yes to play SFIV
To play. You have to to just play. Against other shit players who also only have a faint idea what they are doing, can't punish right or do optimal combos. Shut up

>>384826983
Yeah. I find the couch vomit story incredibly endearing.

>>384817652
No Anon you are the retards. "It's good" doesn't mean "it's good design", you can move faster and whiff punish just by having non-shit walk speeds.
>Even SFIV's backdashes had uses. They had invincibility frames on them.
Yeah and that was fucking terrible design and everyone knows it.

AH3 has more movement and air movement options than any game you can name by way of the homing button rather than extreme waggling action.

>>384827668
>couch vomit story
elaborate

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>>384827943
>responding to a nearly 2 hour old post
>trying to argue while simultaneously giving more evidence to prove his point
>"It's useless and stressful." "Well it's just bad game design then."

What are you doing anon?

>>384828024
Let the man himself so that.
https://www.reddit com/r/smashbros/comments/28yc4u/clearing_up_and_possibly_changing_my_smash_wiki/

>>384828462
*do that

>>384826128
>>384826474
How can you be this fucking retarded and illiterate.
>I SAW THE WORD BALANCE THIS HAS NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN EVER BEEN USED TO REFER TO ANYTHING BUT CHARACTER BALANCE BETTER POST SOMETHING ABOUT CHARACTER BALANCE AJOHKL:DGOJIHAJOIAIJOAFSDIOJFDS MOM TENDIES KAPPA

Look you assfuck backwoods dropout kike niggers if you lack access to fundamental character tools or do 1/4 the damage of a real combo nobody is going to use the fucking mode to play against real people because they're just as poor off as they were without it.

>>384826669
Main characters are ninja girls. Tits aside that's more importance then Chun Li gets.

>>384826841
Tekken requires complex inputs pretty much every single time you move a character, not to mention the core cast members require a just frame special move to work at all.

>>384828398
What are you doing Captain Greentext

>>384828583
>if you lack access to fundamental character tools
those modes and options don't

> do 1/4 the damage of a real combo
Only autocombo in some games does this and even then they all do good damage, especially for low level play

>poor off as they were without it.
Being able to do stuff, is as bad as not being able to.

that was an incredibly weak attempt at a save

>>384828690
This is why VF is so underappreciated. The movement is so fast and fluid that it both feels and looks better than Tekken.
I know there's depth to Tekken but I won't be interested for as long as it looks like janky trash.

>>384829004
It looks fine as long you're not playing Eddie.

Why don't we have any fighting games where every button on a keyboard executes a unique move? That way you get your simplified inputs while still having a full sized movelist available.

>>384806251
Literally what is this

Looks shit

>>384828894
>those modes and options don't
Yes, they do. BB's easy input mode only lets you use one of three supers, will give you only one strength of special moves, partial Drive options, etc.

>Only autocombo in some games does this and even then they all do good damage, especially for low level play
The only autocombo that doesn't suck ass I can even think of is Labrys and Shadow Labrys in P4A, just because those characters had limited combo options in many situations. In most you burn a super meter to do the same damage a no meter combo could.

>>384828583
Calm down there kiddo.
Yes, autocombos and simplified control modes are usually weak as fuck. That's the price you pay for taking the easy way out.

But what you're really arguing against here is that simplifying the inputs for special moves doesn't suddenly make the game easy peasy for new players. As the other anon said, it's dumping the players right into the hardest part of fighting games. Learning your fundamentals, which is extremely important in any and every fighting game.

Being able to throw a fire ball easier doesn't change the fact that they have to learn how to use that fireball properly.

>>384829343
>Yes, they do.
GG and SF4 3DS don't. This did not help fundamentals. Even in BB's case you have 95% of your options still available, yet nothing it did not help.

>The only autocombo that doesn't suck ass
Again game dependent, again better than the casuals who this is meant to help can do anyway

These systems have been tried, this style of game has been tried. It failed to help anything

>>384829415
Here's the thing. Most people don't even know that's the hard part. They go "wow doing SRK motions is for no life autismos" and quit before they get that far. To most people the ideas of timing, spacing, and prediction are much less abstract than control inputs and they are (hopefully) less likely to reject learning them out of irrelevance.

>>384829769
This game is just people trying to cash in on the meme that execution means shit. If they can't learn simple execution they won't be any good anyway. A high level player in any game will be able to catch the basics in any other game relatively quick, so the dude is full of shit. For instance, I was able to beat well over most people I played after a few days with Guilty Gear. You can learn simple combos in any game. It doesn't matter how much damage you do if you don't know how to get it, tho.

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>>384811074
RIP my nigga Meik Russ

>>384829769
>are much less abstract
You say that but most won't consider it no matter how easy you make the input. if they have the choice between trying to learn the game and hit the fireball button they will pick the later. Has the casualisation of every genre made anyone understand those games in depth easier? No, it mostly just removes that depth

The only people this would apply to are people who failed hard and went all "fuck execution it is mind games which is the intelligent part!" Who will just bail once they realise they are shit at that as well

>>384806251

Pro's:
* Fresh, sorta-new characters.
* The guy's right that the more popular games has too much baggage.

Cons:
* Commands are too simple.
* Looks like Divekick in 3D with more moves.

I doubt this game would save fighting games. Maybe if they kept the commands "old school" (like QCFs, DPs, and HCBs), it would save the genre.

>>384806251
Dbz fighter has already done that scrub face

Lay off th shilling shill

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>>384811732
>>384806251
I think everything about this looks and sounds GOOD.

But I just dont think the final product will have much of a chance at mainstream success and will, at best, be a niche thing where you cant consistently find games unless you join some Discord circlejerks playing it.

>>384830323
>more popular games has too much baggage.
That isn't true though. Many sequels actually cut a lot out, what they do add is either new so everyone is new to it or an adaptation of an old system to make it easier for people like in Xrd.

There was a great video a while back of what if we removed all the things scrubbed complained about to make it fair, which just results in maing a bare bones boring game. Can't find it right now though

>>384829769
If this were true though, other games that have done simplified inputs would have a bigger playerbase because people would get past that oh-so-troublesome execution barrier and get right to the fundamentals. However, none of those games are around now. None of these games have any sort of name recognition or presence anymore. Clearly, simplified inputs aren't the key to drawing in keeping new players.

The visuals alone are going to keep players away. It's an ugly uninspired game and it does absolutely nothing original.

>>384824205
Everything you say gets blown out of the water the moment you realize that you don't have to be the best player to have fun. Even if you're good you're going to get your ass handed to you by better players, that's the point of match making.

>>384825090
The meta *is* part of the game, more or less. 2 weeks in the mechanics are still being explored and tech hasn't been discovered. It's too early to make that call.

What makes you say it is?

>>384830654
But Overwatch lets me do all the moves and gave me the big attack that killed the whole team!

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>>384829769
>>384829415
EVERYONE can throw a fucking fireball or fireball motions if you stick them in Training mode and told them what to do.

It's the linking those motions and other buttons together that get new players confused. Especially for non-dial combo games like Street Fighter

>>384830572
I don't know dude, maybe some low budget fighting games failed (and this one will too because it will have zero marketing budget either) but you can't tell me Call of Duty and Overwatch are exactly flag bearers for executional difficulty.

>>384830816
>It's the linking those motions
any idiot can press a button then mash qcf p. Even 4 is pretty lenient on your basic combos for the majority of the cast. It is only when you are doing some FADC combo it gets hard but that is a while away for most new players

>>384831169
Yes, now if only one button + fireball were the longest links in the game...oh wait it's far from it.

>>384831000
>Call of Duty and Overwatch
Different genres. Just cause you can simplify one genre while still keeping it enjoyable to most doesn't mean that will work for all

You know what fighting game did connect with a huge audience and create a lasting scene? Street Fighter 4, a game with hard execution

>>384831000
Never played overwatch. I don't know why you brought it up either.

Rising Storm is the most successful fighting to this date that uses simplified inputs as a core mechanic. That game had a 4.5 million dollar budget from a private investor. The game was pretty solid. Fun characters, some variety to the characters, but the life of the game itself suffered from the same problems that other games and this game did when using simplified inputs. It never actually makes fighting games easier. It's a pacifier to used to cash in on the people who complain about something so small as special move inputs. Those same people who complained about complicated inputs dropped the game because they couldn't beat other people on even ground.

>>384831361
>the longest links in the game
oh wait no one has to do that at the start. It is almost like they are meant to play the game for years and improve over time.

In no game is it good design that you can jump in ad do the hardest stuff straight away, that would mean the game is shallow.

>>384831361
Then what? Then you throw out a point blank fireball, get your ass handed to you, and cry about "bad game design."

>>384810658

>was a success
>didn't play it

So much /v/ and autism in one fucking post

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>>384810658
>rising thunder was a success
>i didnt play it

>>384819489
Because Americans are to simplistic and simply want things that make them feel special for not being good instead of actually getting good.

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>>384807868

>>384830572
Isn't smash basically a fighting game with simpler inputs and more of an emphasis on mobility?

>>384831980
It got bought out for a ton, but it wasn't a popular game.

>>384832042

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So was Rising Thunder actually fun and relatively easy to play?

>>384832073
Regardless as to how you want to spin it, Rising Thunder was a gleaming commercial success.

>>384832042
Not if you ask the smash autists who think it's infinitely more technical than everything else.

>>384832252
Pretty much yeah

>>384832338
Yeah just like No Man's Sky.

>>384832252
It was SF4 but not as good or polished. It wasn't bad but didn't really achieve what it set out to do in making a game casuals got into easy

>>384832042
It is. But you'd have to be joking to suggest those are the reasons casual and new players buy and play the games.

It has one of the biggest fighting game communities, but it rides a LOOOOT on brand recognition.

>>384832252
A pretty well made game to be honest. They were a small development team, but they had a proper budget and put it to work.
The game play just got stale real quick. They had planned to add new loadouts to characters specials, but that never fully materialized before it got bought out.

>>384832338
Scamming people does not make it a good game. I would also like to clarify that the parent company of Riot buys TONS of games out, Rising Thunder isn't special.

>>384832375
I mean you could argue that the increased mobility leads to more complex technical inputs in the end, but the moves themselves are easier to execute compared to a fighting stick game.

There's normal directional attacks, directional smash attacks, air versions of those two, and grabs/shield. At the very least I thought the lower barrier of entry helped me enjoy it when I was casually into it.

>>384832514
Anyone who doesn't think that 60-70% of why that game is popular is because of branding is being silly.

That being said, what about system like from the various Naruto fighting games? Those inputs seem to be simpler than traditional 2d inputs, have there been any made in that vein that weren't reliant on their branding?

>>384824205
I don't see the problem, if this game gets more people into the genre, doesn't mean it is gonna become the norm.

>>384832635
>>384832390
>>384832475

That sounds promising then.

I'd play a League of Legends fighting game if it's the same team making it.