Has any other major franchise ever had its fanbase torn apart

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>tfw replay Twilight Princess and am sure that Wind Waker was worse.
>tfw replay Wind Waker and am sure that Twilight Princess was worse.

Help me....

>>384731173
They're both top 5 Zelda games

But Wind Waker is the better of the two.
TP leans too heavily on OoT and has too much padding for a game that got delayed for a year.

>>384731414
I love the Wind Waker but it's literally an unfinished game.

>>384731513
There's a difference between rushed and unfinished. Mario Sunshine is an example of a game that's unfinished where you can see glitches and buggy game design everywhere. Wind Waker's mechanics function fine. It just got less content than it was intended to have.

>>384731714
You summed it up perfectly. Wind Waker was rushed, but still a joy to play. Twilight Princess got delayed but still came out lackluster, and coming from Wind Waker, it was a step backwards.

>>384731414
>They're both top 5 Zelda games
You have low standards.

>>384732393
Give me five Zelda games you would definitively call better than both of those games. I'll give you OoT as a freebie, but don't waste my time with 4 Dungeons Mask

>>384731414
True if you only play 3D Zeldas.

>>384732509
The Legend of Zelda
Zelda II
Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Oracle of Seasons
Oracle of Ages
Breath of the Wild

>but don't waste my time with 4 Dungeons Mask
Why would I? It's one of the worst.

>>384732592
Go to bed Egoraptor

>>384732509
Zelda 1
Zelda 2
a Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Oracle of Seasons
Oracle of Ages
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks
a Link Between Worlds
Breath of the Wild

WW and TP are only popular because they're the most casual and inoffensive games in a casual series aimed at normies.

>>384732689
>Phantom Hourglass
>Spirit Tracks

At least make your bait believable

>>384730489

But most people agree 2 is shit

>>384732509
Zelda II
Majora's Mask (Fuck you(
Minish Cap
Spirit Tracks
Breath of the Wild

>>384731414

I can't think of a single game with worse padding than the triforce quest

>>384732874
>Majora's Mask (Fuck you(

No other game in history has been so propped up and had so many faults ignored thanks to good writing and almost nothing else

>>384732949
Apparently you can't read

>>384732874

Minus cap was fun as fuck, but it's definitely not better

Wind Waker ruin Zelda by adding in a timeline to the entire series.

>>384732986
>Muh time limit
All you have to do is slow time down and not try to do everything in one go. You aren't supposed to.

>>384732509
>I'll give you OoT as a freebie, but don't waste my time with 4 Dungeons Mask
Nice bait
Every aspect of OoT is made better in MM.
Only exception is the number of dungeons. However all of them but the first one are all better than any one of OoT's dungeons.

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Who even cares though? WW, TP, and SS (The 3 OOT clones) are all pretty valueless and belong nowhere near a top 5 Zelda list.

BOTW
ALBW
MM
ALTTP
OOT

>>384733032

WW is the better of the two because TP has bad padding

What am I misreading here

>>384733098
>>384733098
>Only exception is the number of dungeons. However all of them but the first one are all better than any one of OoT's dungeons.

This is a lie told by lifelong fedora tippers. OoT has 3 dungeons worthy of mention as being in the top 5 in the series. Stone Tower is the only one in MM that can sniff the top 10. Great Bay belongs in the bottom 3

Also the best stuff brought back from OoT like the Lens of Truth is put to complete waste

Only autists who sperg about "muh atmosphere" and "muh adventure" care about windwaker and its extremely boring overworld.

>>384733186
>What am I misreading here
I'll help you
>has too much padding for a game that got delayed for a year

I'm more forgiving of WW's padding because it was due to executive meddling. TP's padding is there because somebody on the team actually thought it was a good idea

>>384733415
>Only autists who sperg about "muh atmosphere" and "muh adventure" care about windwaker and its extremely boring overworld.

I might've agreed with you six months ago, but BotW really opened my eyes to how much Zelda games need those things.

>>384733324
>Great Bay belongs in the bottom 3
git gud and stop whining
>Also the best stuff brought back from OoT like the Lens of Truth
the lens of truth in OoT is just as useless, what are you talking about

>>384729619
>>384729619
Wind Waker had different art direction but the best story in the series so far. Characters were also believable and Ganondorf actually has more backstory as opposed to just being "evil." The only con this game had was traveling by ship but I believe this was fixed Wii U version. But overall, it tells us an post-apocalyptic story where most of Hyrule was sunk under the sea in order to prevent Ganon from initiating his conquest with the obcense of Ocarina Link.

Twilight Princess looks like copy-paste from Ocarina but it has some of the best dungeons in the entire series and the boss battles feel epic. Also Midna is easily one of the best characters in the entire series. Like Wind Waker, Twilight Princess is also a Hyrule in a distant future where many old landmarks(outside of the Temple of time)are all gone and a lot of things have changed here.The only cons this game had were that outside of Midna, there weren't any other characters you'd actually care about.

Breath of the Wild: As an open-world game, its good because it lets you do many wacky things you can't do in Skyrim. Its pretty casual though leaning more towards GTA in realism. You can burn up anything(except people)hike any mountain you want and pull lots of stunts and plan out strategies against enemies unlike in the past games. Now as a Zelda game, is pretty weak compared to the rest of the series. While the Master Sword and some familiar landmarks are there, the post apocalyptic narrative is weaker than TP's, there's no more unique non-breakable items outside the Master Sword, weak dungeon design, shrines aren't rewarding enough, no overworld music and characterizatioin is weak(yes there's Mipha/Revali/etc but they only get very few cutscenes and BOTW Zelda is even worse than TP Zelda).

Still I enjoyed all of these Zelda games for what they had to offfer, even BOTW, but I feel like Zelda should remain semi-linear instead of the current approach it has adopted.

>>384733526
>git gud and stop whining
>MM
>hard

Nintendo themselves admitted it sucked with the 3D remake

>the lens of truth in OoT is just as useless, what are you talking about

It helped create some of OoT's most interesting and unsettling moments. MM used it as a one time throwaway.

>>384733661
>It helped create some of OoT's most interesting and unsettling moments.
name some

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>>384729619
I'll do you even better. Has any other major franchise ever had its fanbase torn apart by one fucking abomination.

>>384733696
The invisible pits in the bottom of the well.

Invisible floormasters in the shadow temple.

>>384733732
How was it torn apart? Nobody besides Dobson even pretended to like it. WW and TP split a community on the entire direction of the franchise.

>>384733805
Creepy moments were plentiful in MM anyways, so that's a strange complaint

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>>384729619
I just feel like every console zelda has gotten worse and worse since windwaker. It use to be my favorite series, but its just so bad now.

>>384733967
Nothing in MM bothered me as much as the Bottom of the Well and Shadow Temple

>>384729619
I don't understand why there is any sort of conflict over these two. Both are good games and both have their fair share of problems. Is it really just the art direction and tone shift?

>>384734109
And the focus on exploration vs dungeons

>>384734009
Most of the mainline Zelda games are great, its when Skyward came about when the series started declining, but BOTW, while initially enticing(like most open-world games)eventually gets repetitive and doesn't feel rewarding enough unlike the past Zelda games. But its still better than Skyword because the game was jammed up with tutorials and felt too gimmicky to enjoy.

>>384734249
Not him, but I can't figure out how I feel about Breath of the Wild.

I should be able to say that it's straight up better than Wind Waker due to the increases in the size of the game and difficulty, yet I'm having trouble bringing myself to do so.

>>384729619
Windwaker is better gameplaywise and has a nice colorful theme. Also Toon Link actually emotes really well.

TP's gloomy atmosphere is godlike and I can't love it enough, but it's gameplay is a bit duller.

>>384733732
Most of the Metroid fanbase was against that game, so nobody was divided over it but that obviously marked the decline of the series.

>>384733805
WW and TP were great games, most of the Zelda fans played the games accross the franchise. The only fanbase that is truly divided would be the Fire Emblem fanbase over the 3DS games(Awakening and Fates created the divide).

>>384734470
>hat obviously marked the decline of the series.

For a series to decline it has to make more games. We still haven't had a Metroid title since Other M

>>384732785
I legit enjoyed those game. But yeah, I wouldn't call them top 5 material.

Oracle of season however I would, and I will.

>>384732592
>Zelda II
>no Minish Cap (even if it was too easy)

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>>384729619

>>384734412
>TP's gloomy atmosphere
I hope you don't mean the bad artstyle and the muddy graphics? The character models were especially painful to look at

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>>384734634
Don't talk shit about my waifu

>>384733324
>Great bay belongs in bottom 3
Nice meme. Some people are so butthurt about water levels existing their autism overrules obviously clever, complex dungeon design and stellar atmosphere. Not even to mention how smooth the water controls in MM are. Here is the objective dungeon rankings of Oot and MM:

God Tier
>Forest Temple
>Stone Tower Temple

Great Tier
>Great Deku Tree
>Fire Temple
>Water Temple
>Shadow Temple
>Spirit Temple
>Great Bay Temple

OK Tier
>Jabu Jabu
>Woodfall Temple
>Snowhead Temple

Worst Tier
>Dodongo cavern

>>384734727
JUST

>>384734760
Agreed but snowhead needs to be higher

>>384734383
Obviously because BOTW lacks memorable characters like Fado and Meldi, lacks unique items and the exploration doesn't feel rewarding enough(lots of empty landscapes, similar enemy encampments, unrewarding items that break easily, lacklustre shrines, etc). It just doesn't compare to most Zelda games. Its good to play for a while but once you gotten through most of the map, its going to get extremely repetitive fast.

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>>384733181
>no links awakening
>WW and OOT clone
So your opinion is just shit then?

>>384732832
Casual opinion

>>384734931
Zelda formula needs to stay.
Also I wish we got a Zelda game with actual story that's AT LEAST on par with your average snes jrpg

>>384734249
>>384734383
I kinda feel theres a toss up between BotW and SS for me. maybe Im just forgetting how bad SS really was with its handholding and motion controls, but BotW just felt like a skinners box in hindsight. The only good things about it were character models were finally not ugly and you were never forced into many tutorials. Besides that though every thing felt really shallow and what's the most disappointing is that nothing was ever as fun as the great plateau and some other early parts in the game. Since that experience only works once I doubt I'll ever play the game again. I'll just remind myself to play any other zelda to get more enjoyment with the only exception being SS of coarse

>>384732986
Absolutely this. It was the first N64 game I ever played (so super nostalgia), but the game has so many flaws

>>384734949
>WW an OOT clone
Literally just OOT with a different overworld. It's Pokemon/COD levels of samey.
>no links awakening
I mean I don't hate it, but top 5? Really?

>>384732832
>more online players than 1 and bloodborne for longer periods of time
>second highest rated soulsborne

most people aren't autistic lorefags on youtube and /v/

>>384735338
not them but Link's awakening is easily the best to me

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>>384735338
>Literally just OOT with a different overworld. It's Pokemon/COD levels of samey.
Dude you're delusional.

>>384731173
The HD versions confirmed to me that neither game was particularly good and that the dungeons of OoT and Majora were never given justice with a third good game. They did however make me beg for Breath of the Wild.

>>384735558
Wind Waker features exclusively surface level changes to the formula of OOT. Same as TP and SS.

Halo

>>384736458
it has a similar formula but claiming it's comparable to pokemon and cod is just wrong

>>384736707
No, it isn't.

>>384736786
Yes it is.

>>384736458
if want a completely different formula then play a different game?

I was dissapointed with TP because the wolf gimmick was complete garbage. I at least enjoyed sailing in ww because it was comfy but i wish all the 3d zeldas did a trime travel gimmick similar to oot or mm.
An overworld with dungeons. Thats what i want from zelda. If you want something else you are a fucking retard.

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>>384729619
Sonic has a three way divide

>>384731943
>and coming from Wind Waker, it was a step backwards
WW has worst dungeons than TP. In fact the combat was a complete step foward.

>>384736946
Majoras Mask and BOTW change the formula

TP is derivative wolf sections with the main game literally being OOT with a handful of new items

>>384735587
WW and TP dungeons shit all over Majora

>>384737020
swap generations for Sonic Allstar racing

>>384732986
>>384735296
What flaws
>inb4 subjective shit

>>384729619
I loved both of these game a lot